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Run-Rated Fukushima Radiation Release On Par With, And In Some Cases Greater Than, Chernobyl
Even as the spin continues by both the media and nuclear energy advocates that the dangers from Fukushima are overblown, calculations done behind the scenes indicate that Fukushima and Chernobyl are actually very comparable in terms of radioactive particulate release, and in some cases, such as Cesium 137, Fukushima is already runrating as a worse catastrophe than Chernobyl. From Reuters: "The release of two types of radioactive
particles in the first 3-4 days of Japan's nuclear crisis is estimated
to have reached 20-50 percent of the amounts from Chernobyl in 10 days,
an Austrian expert said on Wednesday. Based on measurements made at monitoring
stations in Japan and the United States, Wotawa said the iodine released
from Fukushima in the first three-four days was about 20 percent of
that released from Chernobyl during a ten-day period. For Caesium-137, the figure could amount to some 50 percent." In other words, run rating the release of Cesium for a 10 day period, leaked radioactive Cesium is now about 120-150% of what it was during the full blow reactor explosion experiencing during Chernobyl. But yes, aside from the facts, watering the reactor that are certainly melting down (if haven't done so already) should surely have great benefits.
More from Reuters:
The calculations published by Austria's Central Institute for Meteorology and Geodynamics may add to growing concern in Japan and elsewhere over the contamination of food products such as milk and vegetables in areas near the Japanese reactor site.
The Austrian institute's Dr Gerhard Wotawa stressed the two isotopes from Fukushima he had sought to estimate -- iodine-131 and caesium-137 -- normally make up only one tenth of total radiation.
Based on measurements made at monitoring stations in Japan and the United States, Wotawa said the iodine released from Fukushima in the first three-four days was about 20 percent of that released from Chernobyl during a ten-day period.
For Caesium-137, the figure could amount to some 50 percent.
The International Atomic Energy Agency said on Wednesday Japanese authorities had told the Vienna-based agency that radiation dose rates at the plant were decreasing, although the overall situation remained serious.
One U.N. study has estimated Chernobyl, in Ukraine, may over time cause 4,000 to 9,000 extra deaths from cancer.
And there are big differences in the handling of the crises.
"At Chernobyl, the population was not generally aware that the accident had happened," said Malcolm Crick, Secretary of the U.N. Scientific Committee on the Effects of Atomic Radiation.
"People in the nearby town of Pripyat were watching the fire from just a kilometre or so away. They were evacuated a day or so later," he said, adding that children kept drinking milk despite risks of contamination.
"In Japan, there was a precautionary evacuation early on," he said, adding "it's too early to make a real assessment of the overall impact."
Japanese authorities also distributed units of stable iodine which can help protect against radioactive iodine.
Unfortunately following today's news that radiation was once again surging to record highs, any temporary lull factored into models should be propmtly discarded. It also begs the question: how soon until the first indications of radiation poisoning start appearing. Somehow we are confident we will not find out until years from now when all the truth surrounding this incident is finally declassified.
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Who gives Obama his marching orders every morning? (Besides Michelle, I mean.) Where does this take place and by what medium? Have you been in on one of these sessions? Please elaborate, you seem to know practically everything there is to know.
It doesn't happen every morning, because it doesn't matter what that child does every day.
When it does matter, the adult in charge is Zbigniew Brzezinski.
God help us all.
Fed delenda est.
Who said anything about marching orders? I said puppet. Very often the puppet has little knowledge of it's manipulation. Neither do we for that matter. Everything must be black and white with you. There is a shadow government just as there is a shadow banking system and a shadow military.
Besides, do you really think the Presidency is anything more than a grand and elaborate ceremonial position over the last 30 or more years? That goes double for Congress. They have plenty of make work to keep them busy. The real nations "work" is conducted by the Military Industrial Banking Corporate Complex.
"Besides, do you really think the Presidency is anything more than a grand and elaborate ceremonial position over the last 30 or more years?"
I've gained a lot of knowledge since I began searching from this site and many others.
But even when still plugged into the matrix I knew the POTUS was nothing but another Queen of England.
We could tell you, but then we'd have to "terminate" you.
You're starting at the wrong end. Forget who or what might or might not be behind this or that. Pull up a video of World Trade Center 7 falling to the ground in under 9 seconds and honestly ask yourself if you really think it was fire that did that.
Have you ever seen any building on fire, be it made of wood, steel, concrete or bamboo, just collapse like that? Because that is what your government is saying. That is the really tough hurdle to overcome. The tendency is to say that you aren't an expert and thus you can't say. Push through that impulse and do your own honest and through research.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD06SAf0p9A
A plane went down with out attacking in PA and a building went down with out being attacked in NY.
I was watching live when building 7 went down. I spent the next weeks checking many news sources to try and find a reason for the collapse, but than the Anthrax attack came and I lost my focus and then became paranoid of my mail box for the next several months, put me down for a gross of replacement tin foil hats.
I will not debate anyone about the events of 911 until they first sit with me and view the most recent video of building 7 and if they still are not convinced there has been a cover up I show them the video once more and point out the windows being blown out on 10 or more floors right before the collapse begins. This method has had the best results, simplicity, it is the best way.
a sincere question here - why would they (whoever they were) prewire WTC 7 to fall down? they (again) already got the two towers. What more did a detonation of #7 add, assuming it was some kind of an inside job?
I have heard is speculated that all of the Enron ponzi evidence was housed there.
But, I have done zero real research into the towers.
It was a tragedy, and I have never trusted the government.
Motive makes zero difference to outcome.
I have no idea and I don't pretend to. But does failing to answer this question preclude investigating the dozens of contradictions, falsities and out right lies revolving around the total and symmetrical collapse of building 7 of the World Trade Center Complex?
While this is an oversimplification of the situation, if I were to walk into a room and find a body on the floor along with blood pooled under the body, must I determine who, what, when, where and why in order to determine the body is in fact dead? The answer is no. While it is important to know the answers to the other questions, I don't need the answers before I can declare the person dead.
I really have no idea why WTC7 was taken down although I can speculate. But that's doesn't mean I can't look at the facts and evidence and determine that it was taken down and that it wasn't a "natural" occurrence. What happens to most people is that when confronted with information that conflicts with their world view, rather than reexamine their world view, they discard the information.
So much easier to throw out a few pieces of new info than to revamp their entire view of how the world works. The pain of Cognitive Dissonance must be dealt with. The easiest quickest way to do so is to believe whatever you wish to believe that does the least amount of damage to whatever you wish to believe. Anyone who claims they don't do this at one time or another, usually when under great emotional stress, is a liar.
failing to answer the motive question certainly does not and should not stop inquiry by those interested into all the other issues.
but, to use the body in the room analogy, while one doesn't need to know motive to conclude it's dead, it's a question probably meriting an answer once one gets to the murder trial.
I'm an agnostic on the whole issue. But the investigation of the dozens of contradictions as you put it, properly done by a layperson, is time consuming. By properly, I mean looking at as much info trails as possible, carefully evaluating sources, trying to sort out the bs... lots of time and effort. And there are so many other issues and events meriting such effort, that one can't know everything. So it's not that I think 'it' couldn't have happened, maybe it did, but it has never been worth the candle to me.
But I encourage you to keep studying and working on it. I'm not saying you're wrong. You seem one of the more careful investigator types around here.
But do let me know if you come across a reason why, having exposed themselves to the risk of discovery by 'wiring' the two towers, 'they' would pile on more risk by throwing #7 into the loop.
I was actually just standing at the corner of Vessey and Greenwhich near the PATH entrance and looking at roughly were 7WTC was. I can't for the life of me understand how it didn't come down immediately after the north tower collapsed. The massive foundation, the bath tub, that linked up the whole complex... It boggles my mind how it stood as long as it did. I have a very novice appreciation for physics, but if I kicked your legs out, you'd fall down. I can't understand how the Millenium Hotel didn't collapse.
I wanted to believe this conspiracy theory but the evidence doesn't make sense to me.
The government doesn't need to develop elaborate plots to carry out their will. This whole conspiracy ends with our leaders presenting the lamest argument in history to support the war in Iraq. The punchline of this story is why I doubt this theory. It would be plausible to me if a) covert operators had a track record of successfully carrying out covert operations, b) the timing of 9/11 was convenient from the point of view of invading Afghanistan, c) the intelligence apparatus was in place prior to 9/11 since it seems that the entire network in caucuses had to be restored, d) there was clear evolution of the situation as opposed to the haphazard invasion of Afghanistan and the straining that had to be done to invade Iraq, e) evidence that an actual objective had been accomplished. This is not a res ipsa situation, no smoking gun. We had no plan in response to 9/11, we could barely muster a plan to respond in Afghanistan and it took months to implement because of the weather and terrain, we bumbled the entire operation, achieved no objective, no victory, we strained to opportunistically invade Iraq and it was a fiasco by all measures and now we've totally lost control of the region.
A cursory review of the entire sequence of events points only to arrogance and incompetence, a characteristic that is consistent with everything the government does.
We accomplished nothing in this "conspiracy" and the arrogant assholes that run the show are about to blow up. That's the way I read this situation. By all measures, Al Qaeda is the one about to declare victory, when, as I stated earlier every Arab nationalist government collapses, which they believe will restore the Caliphate. That objective is consistent with everything on record. Al Qaeda was operationally proficient and this plot is consistent with the extent of their trade craft.
The US Government on the other hand seeks to protect its position of power and the power of a handful of elites. It blatantly manipulates the system in plain sight and largely carries out its mandate without mindbending covert plots. It steals from its population right out in the open, it hands money to its corporate benefactors so blatantly, Congress might as well use those big giant checks they use in golf tournaments, and we invade any nation we want with almost no justification whenever we want.
Someone explain to me why we would go through all this trouble? If they wanted to give money to Halliburton, they'd reach into your wallet, pull out your money, fork it right over and then ask you to vote for them in the next election.
X, excellent post. I never understood the ubiquity of acceptance of the "inside job" theory on 9/11 here on ZH. I suppose it's because nearly everyone here has had their rose-colored glasses violently yanked off by seeing reality in some way or another (otherwise they'd be commenting on the MSM sites, not here), but I totally second what you're saying.
It seems to me that, most often - NOT ALWAYS mind you, but often - the logic goes like this:
1. The government is immoral, self-interested, and constantly lies to us. (Absolutely true)
2. There are inconsistencies with the official version of 9/11 events. (Absolutely true)
3. Therefore, the government was behind 9/11.
But step 3 does not follow from 1 and 2. Any reasonable human being must grant the following:
It is at least possible that the government is responsible for 9/11/that al-qaeda was responsible for 9/11/that some other party was responsible for 9/11.
It is at least possible that there were/were not explosives or some form of demolition in the towers.
To me, both sides make the same fallacy. The "truthers" say that, under a certain envisioned scenario, the towers could have been destroyed by demolition. Very few can honestly claim that it is a physical impossibility that, under some set of conditions, they collapsed simply from the plane impacts. Anyone who says so must either have incredible, iron-clad evidence (not mere inconsistencies), or is not being intellectually honest.
Conversely, the same applies to the "mainstream" view, where they make the same error, following it because it confirms their biases. Again, however, the intellectually honest must admit that explosives are a possible cause of their collapse, regardless of how unlikely you may think it is.
So I ask the same question you do: cui bono? Afghanistan and Iraq are a mess and have provided no benefit to the US. Certainly arms dealers have made a lot of money off of them, but that could have been easily done without all this effort. I see no evidence that supports the idea that the US benefitted from 9/11 at all in a way that could not have been done without the attacks.
On the other hand, the attacks comply perfectly with the ideology of al-qaeda; it serves their ends quite well (polarizing the muslim ummah against the West); it fits their MO; it raised both their terrorist credentials and fame/notoriety; and they publicly admitted to perpetrating the attack, which seems quite unlikely if they didn't. After all, the middle east believes in any number of anti-Western and anti-Semitic fairy tales, and would in large part believe Bin Laden if he had said we were lying about the source of the attacks, and blamed Israel instead (or whomever).
I have investigated the issue thoroughly. I have an open mind to both possibilities, and gladly grant that our government is capable of doing something this evil, if it suited their ends, as is al-qaeda. I have seen zero evidence that conclusively, absolutely, and undoubtedly supports one position over the other - nothing totally overwhelming, I mean, either way.
So, for the above reasons, I do not think 9/11 was an inside job at all. At most, we could say that the US govt never lets a crisis go to waste, and was monumentally incompetent.
Sorry, this post was WAY longer than I intended, but as you weren't getting much support, I wanted to back you up.
And no, I'm not a spook or a plant or blah blah blah. :)
Thanks. We are all so cynical, that we have our own confirmation biases. I despise this government more than anyone. These types of conspiracy theories make it seem that the gov't is some omniscient superbeing that can't be stopped. This view is counterproductive. The people in power are powerful self-servng buffoons that steal from us openly while we look for ghosts. There are no black helicopters. Widespread acceptance of this fact can bring about real change. We do not need to fear these elites. They are as vulnerable as anyone. Go re-read the Declaration of Independence. I defy anone not to find a parallel to the list of charges against the King of England in our current form of government.
Manhattan Project
xxxxxcellent. they still aren't on to our alien technology advantage. hehehehehehe.
"3 people can keep a secret if 2 are dead."
Sorry, DoChen. I usually agree with your sentiments, but on this one, you're way off base, and wrong. If there were big sexy secrets maybe they didn't let you in on them, OK?
You guys keep citing "overwhelming evidence", but whenever you actually make the case, it all falls apart very quickly.
You say that the towers collapsed at freefall speeds. Cursory examination of the collapse video shows they did not, only the dust from the top floors did. You could see the shockwave from the collapsing building through the dust clowd, which fell at less than half of the freefall speed.
You say that the temperatures were too high for jet fuel to have caused them. I refuted that easily, as any carbonaceous substance will burn and convert to charcoal, which burns at 2100F, and was used to smelt steel.
You post pictures of molten steel and claim that that wasn't jet fuel. I refute that with the above statement. The burning charcoal got hot enough to melt the steel. Simple.
You say nano-thermite was found in the rubble. I refute that with this simple fact--thermite is iron oxide and aluminum powder. Those towers were full of GASP steel and aluminum. The mechanical forces from the collapse ground them to ultra fine powder.
Look, I hate the government as much or MORE than anyone. But the fact is that they did not do this. CIA agents do all kinds of shitty stuff, but that does not include suicide missions to kill Americans. Them might kill Americans, or they might take a suicide mission to save Americans, but they aren't going to do both. This was blowback. Nothing more, nothing less.
Just a couple of things of the many 'mysterious' events of the day... if you could answer these also please:
Where's the flight recorder black boxes? Never before have they not been recovered from a plane crash.
WTC7 collapse, experts even say it was a controlled demolision, and if it was, that shows prior knowledge of the event, as a building that size cannot be rigged to blow in a single day, and certainly not during the chaos of 9/11.
Where's all the footage from the many many cameras at the pentagon?
The black boxes were probably melted by the charcoal fires that were started by the burning fuel. They couldn't find a lot of the bodies of people from the planes either. Does that mean they were spirited away? No--they burned up.
WTC7 collapsed due to a fire the spread through the tunnel, which undermined the foundation. It appeared that the penthouse collapsed first, but the reality is that that entire side collapsed first. These fires were burning through carbonaceous material in a low oxygen environment. The tunnels thus became blast furnaces, and melted the steel. If WTC7 was part of a conspiracy, why didn't they crash a plane into it? Why leave that totally unexplained? The fact is that a hot fire burning in a tunnel is the EASIEST way to take down a building. Grenadiers (medieval combat engineers) used the EXACT SAME METHOD to take down castle walls.
I saw footage from the Pentagon. I don't know what you are talking about when you reference "many, many" cameras. Given that everything else is firmly debunked, this is pretty weak.
Your explanation of WTC7 and the Pentagon are beyond ridiculous. Ever hear of the raging inferno in Madrid (Windsor building)? That building burned for 17 hours straight and didn't budge. How about the plane crash in Pennsylvania with no plane parts or dead people found?
Simply put your explanations do not stand when compared to reality. Regardless of how you feel or how close to the actual event you were, the official explanation of the events of 9/11 are complete and total bullshit.
Uh, where are the United 93 bodies?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZekosYOmXc
Debunk away!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUzrHHDu96U
Trav? Any comments?
WTC7 'nough said.
The buildings were connected by tunnels. Fires were burning in the tunnels. Hot fires. Charcoal burns at 2100F. Melted the substructure and it collapsed. This is exactly how grenadiers used to topple castle walls.
Try reading the actual official NIST report. Even they knew better than to blame it on tunnels. Push past the summary and you will be astounded how often the actual report contradicts the summary and official NIST public statements. I suspect Brothers Grimm were consultants.
BTW even NIST finally admitted to the entire building, not just a small section but the entire building, experienced a few seconds of free fall. Gotta remove all support to get free fall. Please explain that from an engineering standpoint.
http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/techbeat/tbx2008_1120_wtc7.htm
And building Seven, fell in sympathy of her two big brothers.
Sure.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and take a guess that you don't work in any field that involves heating steel. Let alone melting it. I defy you to rig a demonstration of how to melt steel in open air with jet fuel.
WTC7. Penthouse first.
You didn't read my post, boy. Charcoal is formed when carbonaceous material is burned. It burns hot enough to liquify steel.
BTW I am a chemist.
Show us an experiment of your own choosing where burning jet fuel in open air forms charcoal and heats steel to melting. What are you, an academic chemist that doesn't even own a screwdriver? Or just a poseur? SHOW IT.
Millions upon millions of sheet steel kerosene heaters and real, live charcoal grills are laughing at you in unison.
Someone must have put something in your drugs today.
That's not even a fair comparison because kerosene heaters are designed to burn the fuel in a controlled manner, thus reaching even higher temperatures than those that were experienced in the kerosene fueled (aka jet fuel) fires in the Twin Towers.
You don't melt steel nor make charcoal with kerosene (jet fuel). You also don't melt steel with charcoal in open air, either. I know it's not fair. But I didn't make it up, he did!
Dude, back off. I'm not fighting you. I was saying you were being generous in your comparison. He's trying to say kerosene fires melted or materially softened steel. I'm saying controlled kerosene fires as found in kerosene heaters and which are hotter don't melt or soften steel so the WTC fires wouldn't as well.
Try reading some of my other comments before assuming I'm fighting you. And try reading a comment twice before responding so you aren't triggered. You're new here. Take the time to find out who is who here before swinging.
You're right, sorry bout that.
Oh, and I thought it was diesel tanks. Then it was office fires. You guys change that story more often than underpants. Charcoal?
BWHAHAHA prepostourous
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DuSeuxjiJQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNXqkZO3Y1g
You mean thermite. In a building where the Enron papers and California Energy schandal papers were stored? The HQ of Guilliani in case of a disaster? Where explosions were heard, and firefighters and police warned off, that it was "going to blow"? That one?
Most intelligent people around the world knew something was up when they saw the hole in the Pentagon (too small to fit a Boeing). And heard the BBC talk about a collapsing WTC7 when the building was still up. And heard that Osama was "identified" only a few hours after. And learned about the Anthrax, sent to Senators opposing the "Patriot Act". No, we don't hate your/our freedom. Quite the opposite, really. The current grab for power of the bankers is just a chapter in a long story of the demise of the Republic. We are not that gullable.
Don't insult us please?
A chemist in grade 3?
Are you allowed out at recess?
Does mummy pick you up?
I believe you, at least. :) And doesn't steel lose 50% of its tensile strength at half the melting temp? That could easily be enough to cause collapse.
Based on what I've learned from reading the other threads here at ZH, this whole think is Israel's fault...or maybe the Jews fault.....just ask Michael or Max Hunter they will explain.
Of course, it could all be George Bush´s fault. LOL.
:)
Big government in general is the cause, yes. Oppressive governments are just more...noticeable. By some, at least.
Off Topic but WTF:
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/resources/latest+news/2011/march/ncaa,+homeland+security+partner+in+planning+a+safe+final+four
It will soon be Federal law for every business and building in America to post a picture of Janet Napolitano urging people to rat out fellow citizens if they see anything they believe to be "suspicious".
Just put the pic in bathroom stalls. Constipation, no more. More productivity and alls good.
I could never pee if she was watching me.
+++++
LOL...
You get used to it. I think she's actually quite attractive.
Janet? Are you reading this?
We'll always have Paris.
Fed delenda est.
Posts like this are exactly the reason why you shouldn't eat and read ZH. I gakked a large piece of tomale onto my laptop.
CD, how do you know she's not watching you?
Try not to think about it next time you're in the loo.
Sure, I'll have another Labatt's.
How about the splash screen in urinals?
BTFD will be in play until every last trader is dead from radiation poisoning. Everyone will die at a new market high.
(MarketWatch) -- US stocks closed moderately higher Wednesday after a midday turnaround helped by expectations industrial and mining companies would get more business from rebuilding Japan
does anyone know what time it is? my doomsday clock stopped at 12:00!
I know I've said it before, but the air and the water are two dissemination vehicles for the radiation that can't be countered.
As for the water, hydrology is a fascinating thing, and if anyone here has any familiarity with ground water, it travels great distances and permeates nearly infinite amounts of land mass.
The groundwater (and sea water) that's being irradiated now is inevitably finding its way into drinking water, kitchen faucets, crops, factory water supply stacks and the food chain, it will be around long after anyone now alive is gone, and it will be further concentrated at various points.
I'd be interested to know how much radioactive material Fukushima Daiichi really had stored on site at the time of the earthquake and subsequent tsnusami.
You don't have to be anywhere even remotely near to Fukushima to receive a lot of radiation. Air and water will take it and ship it directly to Japanese, Korean, Taiwanese, Singaporean and Chinese wells and faucets.
Makes sense, Fukushima has containment domes but also has 6 (?) reactors, Chernobyl one reactor, I think.
BTW the concrete tomb of Chernobyl is decaying due to radiation and needs a $240 million stainless steel outer shell to continue to contain it.
Comparing Fukushima to Chernobyl clouds the mind... it's like comparing 6 apples to a huge pumpkin; nonsense.
Take Fukushima for what it is: a problem in its own right.
You will find an eerie "I can't believe this is all happening again now" twin to Chernobyl at Fukushima.
Watch all of this (approx 90 minutes) when you have time. Note especially the near identical "spin" put on by the bureaucracy in the Ukraine and in Japan.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5384001427276447319#
Just to let you know I watched it and yes the spin script is very similar.
On the other hand I maintain, for what is worth, that they should not be compared. The old designs had all the fuel inside, hot, for the life of the plant. The new designs have only a small percentage of it active at any time. Thus an open core at Fukushima, if we get there, is orders of magnitude smaller than Chernobyl.
The "spent" fuel is likely all over the place but it is less bad than the hot graphite in Ukraine as it was not active at the time. Still the whole place will have to be scrubbed and buried either way.
Understand that I'm not downplaying it, just sustaining that they are very different.
"spin" by the media and nuclear industry!?! hahaha, the real spin is how ZH relentlessly pumps out these hysterical threads
I have a truckload of Daiichi Springs bottled water at a rock bottom price.
"spin" by the media and nuclear industry!?! hahaha, the real spin is how ZH relentlessly pumps out these hysterical threads
No one is forcing you to lurk on ZH, so why don't you go annoy at some other site that is full of nice MSM pap
I'd hate to see what made you get hysterical.
romanko7777
Fed delenda est.
Photos from inside the unit 1&2 control room, released today:
http://english.kyodonews.jp/photos/2011/03/80565.html
http://english.kyodonews.jp/photos/2011/03/80566.html
http://english.kyodonews.jp/photos/2011/03/80568.html
http://english.kyodonews.jp/photos/2011/03/80567.html
I found a great picture of the control room too!
http://mediccopcom.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/marvin_at_computer.jpg
Holy flirking schnitz.
Check the pic on the video of the side of Reactor 4 a lot more damage to the concrete panels than the last pic I saw several days ago. Video switches to anchorman as soon as play is started
http://rt.com/news/japan-fukushima-reactor-evacuation/
Real estate in Mars is bullish.
According to the Daily Mail, 5 of the Fukushima 50 are already dead.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1367929/Japan-nuclear-power-plan...
Heroes. May they RIP.
Heroes for a worthless TEPCO and Japanese government response.
No doubt CNBC will spin this as 5 new jobs having been created.
sorry for the cynicism.
Their family should be financially taken care of for the next 50 years. The sad part is ,Japan needs to sacrifice 500 people at least to get this under control. Or multiples of that will die from the consequences in the future. Its a cheap cut. Create some heroes and then make sure their familys are properly looked after.
That wont happen , because we all know not to trust governments on their word. Perhaps a swanky lawyer should set up a trust fund and get cash up front for these brave people/slaves.
Another issue I foresee is that, unlike Russia/Ukraine, Japan is a much smaller nation whose rail and road network passes right through Fukushima. If the area around Fukushima is contaminated for years, as seems likely, having to 'detour' around the coastline is going to be both expensive and disruptive.
Can anyone please explain why it is that commenters here find it perfectly acceptable to give their absolute credulity to the findings of a single scientist using limited data and located thousands of miles away from the site of the disaster, and yet, the same commenters find the reports of an overwhemling majority of the scientific community on the issue of climate change incredulous?
I know, I am painting the commenters here with a broad brush, but still the point remains valid.
You guys kill me. Really. Just hilarious.
And by all means, junk me. It only proves my point.
"And by all means, junk me. It only proves my point."
You are erroneously assuming you actually made a point.
Whoa, dude! Really got me there!
don't walk around begging for a bitch slapping and then turn around and bitch when you get it.
They believe what they want to believe. Doomsday is their salvation, it's what they've (myself included) have been prepping for, and it's been years in the making. This could be the ultimate black swan that makes their positions go to 'da moon. In my case, I'd prefer the objective truth, cherry-picking only what validates one's pre-conceived ideas is lazy and dangerous.
"Doomsday is their salvation" - you refer to the warmers?
why does the end of the world happen so sllowwwwwllllly. i agree with that...of course "that's why Wall Street invented the CDS." why wait for 20% sovreign rates when POOF! we can "give it to ya'" instantly?
This sounds like an issue in which an answer can only come to fruition through a long and contemplative process by yourself. When you discover the answer, please, keep it to yourself as no one here gives a shit.
-Guy who likes to junk people to help them prove their point
Brilliant stuff, really. Oh, and I know the answer, trust. I just like pissing off people like you who when faced with their own hypocrisy lash out like a petulant three year old.
Well done, sir/madam.
oooooooooooooo
Someone call the burn unit.
At first I thought you were talking about the mainstream press.
Common sense tells me that Fukushima just looks fucking bad.
Common sense also tells me that Al Gore is full of shit.
Firstly your "overwhelming majority" doesn't exist. Secondly we've got several thousand pages of emails showing "scientists" at East Anglia (the heart of UN global warming research) conspiring with one another about how to hide inconvenient data that trashed their foregone conclusions and also conspiring to assassinate the characters of scientists who dared to produce real research on the topic.
Not a great environment for "trust". That ain't science dude...that's an agenda.
Of course it exists. You lost all credibility right there. And no, I am not counting al gore as a scientist.
Also, the emails were overblown, and proved nothing other than a few scientists had a few grudges. If you want a reputable scientific view of what those emails did and did not establish, here's a link. I warn you, however, it is objective. That may annoy some people here.
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2009/11/the-cru-hack/
Here's a brief snippet:
More interesting is what is not contained in the emails. There is no evidence of any worldwide conspiracy, no mention of George Soros nefariously funding climate research, no grand plan to ‘get rid of the MWP’, no admission that global warming is a hoax, no evidence of the falsifying of data, and no ‘marching orders’ from our socialist/communist/vegetarian overlords. The truly paranoid will put this down to the hackers also being in on the plot though.
wow
There is never any evidence of conspiracy, you bonehead. I takes all the fun out of it.
Of course you never questioned or watched testimony from benny boy bernackle. Lying compulsively and constantly. I trust this shit and your spew. Go to denningers blog with your worthless bullshit and leave us to our dooming comfort zone.
Look here 'resipsaloquacious', I don't know what community college you are enrolled in but this a thread about Fukushima. I don't want to have to wade through all your garbage posts looking for an argument.
The quality of the comments on this site are becoming tedious as people like you clutter the boards. Take a hike!
Not science, more akin to a religious belief system and as St. Wilson remarked 'Belief Systems make you stupid'. May the last religious zealot be strangled with the guts of the last corrupt ponzi/scumbag banker...
Simple. Global warming is a government sponsored cottage industry for low-brow academics and brainless third world bureaucrats who otherwise couldn't find a paying job and would starve to death. Fukushima is an immediate danger locally in Japan, esp. w/r/t panic in Tokyo, and wider impact on world finance.
Must be a hot thread--we've got 9/11, the Jews, and global warming already.
'Neither shills, nor chaff, nor disinformational sleet, stays these commenters from the meandering completion of their self-appointed rounds'
rofl
Laugh while you can, if the gay, black or union agenda jumps in we'll reach critical bs mass and the whole site may explode .
ahhhh. was it good for you, too?
We missed the war zone of Detroit, I think.
No shit. All we're missing now is a fiery debate over whether or not the Easter Bunny is real.
God did it!
There, now we have that base covered as well.
Just trying to be helpful here...
Follow the instructions of your official spokesman. Do not question, even when announcements run contrary to facts you know to be true. It's for your own good. It will all be OK. Your belongings will be returned to you and there will be jobs for you at your destination. Stand in line and be quiet.
Hide The Decline.
At what point would you think the lack of large scale Hazmat-type reactor unit disposal & clean-up be interpreted as an Act of War and a credible Homeland Security Risk? Why is the Electric Utility Co. arranging $35B in credit lines with the Japanese Government & 3 Banks (BP crisis mgmt style)? Do they need more working capital to properly stop the leak/meltdown with titanium robots to dis-assemble the plant piece by piece?
Point is: Shouldn't they be busy doing something else right now other than floating a new $35B tranche - I mean right this minute?
Why is there not an INTERNATIONAL DELEGATION OF NUCLEAR SECURITY EXPERTS dispatched immediately somewhere? Maybe there is... yada ya. Puff off. We do know that over twenty international Leaders arrived in France in less than 12 hours to discuss bombing Libya.
It's always up to ZH to do the heavy lifting!!
Just a sanity recap for those of you who are trying to keep track:
1) Japan is experiencing a major nuclear catastrophe, and has demonstrated no results thus far that substantiate "things are getting better."
1.5) The nuker-puker in Japan was the result of an earthquake and tsunami that killed tens of thousands and did (at current measurements) over $300 billion in damage.
2) The US undertook unprovoked military operations from the air and sea against Libya.
3) Civil strife (or substitute your favorite civil war-ish phrase) taking place in Yemen, Bahrain, and remains in inconsistent remission in Egypt. Saudi Arabia bought-off the malcontents in their nation for the time being.
4) Two wars initiated by the previous POTUS remain fully-staffed, unfunded, and un-won.
5) A catastrophic oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico that was hibernating emerged from its winter slumber like a tulip in the garden. Cause, size, and impact remain unknown (or are they being neglected?)
6) US Government nearing the end of its noose yet again; at its debt limit, without revenue, evaluating shut-down as a reasonable option, and bickering about funding radio stations (whose annual funding cost as much as 1 hour of Libyan cruse missile bombing).
7) Gasoline prices hit an all-time seasonal high, while WTI crude climbs up and over $106/bbl.
8) Bernank had "a really good corned beef sandwich" the other day. He also printed the equivalent of the GDP of Angola between the time he got up in the morning and before he finished that sandwich. The money he printed was hotter than the core of the Japanese reactor, and immediately went into equities.
9) Inflation in the US as measured by MIT's billion price index ran north of 8% (annualized).
10) The hydrological forecast for the Mississippi River basin (and other major river tributaries) suggests devastating flooding immediately ahead, putting spring planting at risk, further goosing grain prices and reducing world supplies.
11) The equity markets rally on anything and everything. We have achieved directional singularity -- we're all going to be rich!
Thanks for the update. Lots going on. We need perspective.
Nice summary.
Conclusion: equity markets are the financial arms of sociopath societies.
Macondo slide show: "capping" the well was a fraud. http://oilgeology.blogspot.com/2010/09/macondo-slide-show.html
Capping the well was indeed a huge fraud. So were the claims that all the oil magically disappeared, the seafood is perfectly salubrious, Corexit is just like dish soap, all the little people would be made whole, BP would clean up its mess and the Gulf is back to its pristine state.
If there is one thing we can surely count on, it's the old fall back solution of fraud.
Fraud: It's everywhere you want to be.
Does anyone really believe that total and unprecedented central bank coordinated action is not saving everything, including equity markets, from melting down?
I know...I know...the PPT doesn't really exist and I'm crazy for suggesting it.
I'll bet the psycho PPT is shorting into the morons buying on their advice.
I just LOVE how the financial headlines make up reasons why the market is up when there is ABSOLUTELY no reason other than manipulation.
"Wall Street Advances as Miners, Energy Offset Unrest"
Puhleeeaase!
This off of MarketWatch: "Wall Street swings higher
Street turns higher as fears over rising oil abate." Then they changed it, and now it reads "Wall Street swings higher Stocks turn higher as Boeing helps lift sentiment."
No mention of "no-volume algo-pomo driven climb of chaos."
All lies. This is how a post-growth economy operates.
Market Soars on Manipulation, Bullshit
4) Two wars initiated by the previous POTUS remain fully-staffed, unfunded, and un-won.
I dunno. Iraq looks pretty won to me. Unless you count the fact that we have a lot of boots on the ground there. Of course by that criteria Germany, Japan, and GB are still American occupied 65 years after the war was over.
And the Bush idea was to bring instability to the dictators of the ME. That appears to be working. Is it a good idea? Time will tell.
The reason there is no action on this reactor disaster is that about 6 months ago they transferred all the past expendable Toyota Senior Management to Tokyo Electric Power.
Runaway cars = runaway reactors
They cannot make a decision to help themselves.
TDFC with a Boron Chaser!
(Edited for ZH. Call for correct form.)
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"Hong Kong will ban imports of Japanese farm produce, meat and seafood from five prefectures of Fukushima, Ibaraki, Tochigi, Gunma and Chiba after a radioactive substance was found in three vegetable samples, according to a government statement issued Wednesday."
http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/80592.html
I think that negative 3% impact on Japan's GDP is going to need revision.
The major salient difference with Chernobyl was that the moderator used (graphite) gave a spectacular fire before it all burned off. Here, the containment vessels may be obstructing the meltdown, since the reactor was meant to be much more robust.
From watching documentaries about Chernobyl, I would agree that it was until now far worse than Fukushima. However it is still a very dangerous situation with long term implications and it is already being swept under a proverbial rug by MSM. No surprise nobody wants to go near those reactors, they saw what recognition and help " liquidadors " got.
Am I the only one to notice that ever since the Japanese Nuclear Crisis occurred, Libya has drowned it out by a factor of 8350% on the 24/7 bullshit cable news channels?
Wow. What a coincidence.
....and the two stories fully box-out coverage of the Gulf oil spill (part II - the sequel).
All I can get is poor Liz Taylor. Is my TeeVee busted?
"...how soon until the first indications of radiation poisoning start appearing".
Maybe it will also show up later in juvenile Pacific bluefin tuna 15 to 60 cm. in length spawned April-May south of Honshu and caught off the coasts of Japan during this summer-fall in their first year of life - or - in their 2nd year, after swimming across the Pacific, in the May-June 2012 Baja tuna season.
Just noticed the Zero Hedge advertiser on the left side of the screen is Pebble Beach, pitching vacation room deals.
With Japan coming to a complete economic halt, Pebble Beach will now have to bring that greens fee down south of $450 a round, or they will have nobody there, as the Japanese will be pre-occupied with spending their Yen elsewhere than 17 Mile Road !
Been eyeing vacations have we? [the ads are tied to your cookies].
The cesium release is not a good thing, but don't understate the importance of that huge difference in the iodine release
The iodine is readily absorbed by the body and is potentially the bigger long term hazard. Thats why all the KI pills to block it.
And now after 12 days the government's Nuclear Safety Committee is saying this (my blog):
#Japan's Nuclear Safety Committee Chairman: #Radioactive Fallout May Be Severe Enough to Cause Internal Radiation Exposure in Some LocationsBottom line is this...While all you nuclear scientists are bitch slapping yourselves with mili vs microvert inferences the writing is on the wall. Forget about all this technical bullshit and just look at the facts that mean anything? Is radioactivity in the ground water? YES.. Is the radiation level higher then acceptable standards? YES.. Is the situation under control? NO.. Is there any chance these reators will function again? NO.. Is the Government and the MSM lying to the people to prevent major panic and an inevitable market collapse? YES.. Is the situation going to be resolved anytime soon? NO.. Are 14 million people being held hostage by the criminal banking and financial market cartel? YES... How hard is it to understand that this whole situation is nothing but a GOM part 2. We are fed the information that want us to know, meanwhile all the obvious indicators like I mention above are continuing to deteriorate right before our eyes. The easiest indicator is the US Stock market. Last I checked it was pushing +100 points which means since they don't give a shit, the people in Japan are doomed. When markets ralley in light of such economic turmoil you must have to wonder if we are all doomed? Last week the dow tanked because of oil prices spiking and the Japanese crisis. This week they are rallying because oil prices are rising higher and the Japanese situation is getting worse. So let me ask you this, Do you really think anything really matters anymore? NO.. And do you honestly think they give a rats ass about the 14 million people that are going to get dosed worse then those in Chernobyl? I didn't think so either... so who really gives a shit when our destiny is already mapped out and our health and livelihood has been hyjacked by a bunch of CRONIES and replaced with a new game on the table at the world casino. Black swans swimming everywhere and the card games must continue until everbody on this planet is dead and their control and greed drivin Casino has to finally close its doors for good.
i had a nice day skiiing and drinking that fine Tahoe water, too thank you very much.
The MSM silence on this is deafening. Last I heard they were plugging in an extension cord. That was several days ago. Since then, nada. It's weird.
Ok, here's info on where Tokyo gets it water
at this site
http://www.waterworks.metro.tokyo.jp/eng/supply/index.html
click on #2 (Outline of the Tokyo water works) and go to pages 8 -9 of the resulting pdf.
Thanks. I wish this wasn't so interesting at the moment.
indeed. in the last year or so I've learned far more about deep water drilling and nuke reactions than I care to know.
let us know if you turn up anything from the water source info.
One of earth's redeeming features is the insulation from the deadly radiation that fills our galaxy. Now, when playing with the atomic forces of creation, that insulation is breached - some calamities have no viable solution and it looks we like have that scenario now.
Caesium-137 has a half-life of 30 years. If this nasty substance gets sprayed all over Japan, we can say "goodbye" to the Japanese economy.
God forbid Plutonium gets out there in a widespread fashion. Then we will lose the island forever (100,000 years).
Interesting program on the design issues going on right now. (KPFA guns n butter - listen live)
http://www.kpfa.org/node/34
Repeat after me, "multiple critical excursions".
OK:
Beer runs.
"Fear , greed. Love , hate. They all pale into insignificance confronted with denial.
Denial is what keeps the human species alive."
Im going to steal those lines, equity_momo, if you do not mind.
...the 9/11 gig was commenced/allowed to happen because it paved the way for the Patriot and the Homeland Security Acts...end of story. To pass such liberty constraining legislation needed a subdued and fearful populace...9/11 achieved that in spades. I read that the the legislation in one the acts was over a 1000 pages and was presented to Congress a mere 1 week after 9/11...sounds pre-prepared/drafted (if true)...juss sayin'
Everyone just STFU and get back to work....theres NOTHING wrong in Japan....their stock market has been going up, up and up....everything is fine...we`ve ALL seen exploding nuclear reactor plants...its NO big deal...and if it is then the BOJ can just print another 85 billion to smooth things over....PARTY ON GARTH!!
has false dilemma been INSTITUTIONALIZED around here? GFD, it's everywhere.
1 in 100 people anymore seem to be able to hold more than 2 outcomes in their brain.
It is EITHER the apocalypse or else everything is fine.
oh....and GG ALLIN RULES !!!
I stayed away from the news and Internet yesterday, it was getting much too bleak to watch for another day, and too annoying to see how the media were spinning it.
For 2.5 days smoke has been coming from reactor No.2 and No.3, and another is getting very hot.
People are literally checking their food and meals with Geiger counters!
Despite the enormity of this, what did the media do?
They almost completely ignored the Fukushima catastrophe, after a very brief mention that two reactors were smoking, and another about to explode from high temp and pressure. And that tens of millions were now without secure food or water, and that this could last for months or years (and thus probably constitutes the biggest need for international long term aid I'm remember).
Instead; the media went on, and on, and on, and OOONNNNN ... about Elizabeth Taylor karking it. A painful woman whose only claim to fame is she read, and then repeated back to camera unbearably dreary scripted lines of completely fictional horseshite, for a living! And was paid way too much for it, and received accolades for it, that she definitely did not deserve.
The other major topic of the 24-hr-news day was some jew got killed near a bus in Jerusalem, and 30 jews were injured. And we were apparently supposed to be sorely outraged by this. I wasn't, I was thinking, "very over-due ... why did that take so long to happen?"
Instead we had Clinton on the tube, commiserating the poor jews, and giving them retaliatory license, saying, "and they must of course respond". You can guess what's coming next. The Jews kill 1000 Palestinians, then the Palestinians kill a joo or two, so they kill another thousand Palestinians ... rinse then repeat ... ad-infinitum.
Then Libya, ... ah, where the US finally resorted to a multi-weapon repeated attack on Gadaffi's Tripoli complex of buildings. This, after days of saying Gadaffi was not on the target list, and the UN resolution did not permit or espouse targeted assassination or regime change or civil war, or support for the armed webels, beyond the protection of CIVILIANS (non-combatants) from direct and immediate attack.
What a sad world where such a well-resourced global 24 hr media are this hollow, morally bankrupt, disproportionate and willfully blinkered to what matters to human beings.
Even in the Japanese instance the distortions, lies and downplaying coming from the Govt are now so endless and notorious that most Japanese in the street openly admit to not trusting a word the Govt says; "I can't trust them, they keep contradicting whatever they say", seemed to be the theme there. People are still far too sad and devastated to get angry - yet.
The Japanese now just presume the worst because they keep finding out that's generally much more accurate than anything their officials and elected and paid political representatives say will tell them.
The only response to this I can live with is to; tell it how it is and to Hell with anyone who does not like it.
I had the same reaction to NPR today. The degree to which this story and the plight of the Japanese refugees have been ignored points to their severity.
This is the kind of outright self-censorship we have come to expect with the lead up to the invasion of Iraq, the coverage of the (ongoing) BP disaster in the Gulf of Mexico, the elision of criminality with the financial crisis, and the ongoing collapse of employment and living standards in the US.
It is frankly unbelievable and demonstrates that we can expect no truth from our "leaders" and no assistance from our government if we are ever in severe need.
One has to wonder what else is being hidden from view?
this article is UTTER BULLSHIT.
Chernobyl was an uncontained core involved in ongoing fission AND a graphite fire.
There is NO COMPARISON in any WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM with the level of radionuclide release from Fukushima and that from Chernobyl.
Chernobyl lost ALL of its water at the accident stage.