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Rust Discovered On Bank Of Russia Issued 999 Gold Coins

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Here's a head scratcher: as everyone knows from elementary chemistry courses, gold is the most inert metal in the world - it  does not rust, nor corrode. Yet this is precisely what Russian commercial precious metal trading company, International Reserve Payment System, discovered on thousands of (allegedly) 999 gold coins "St George" (pictured insert) issued by the Central Russian Bank. The serendipitous discovery occurred after various clients of the company had requested that their gold be stored not in a safe, but in a far more secure place: "buried under an oak tree." As the website of IRPS president German Sterligoff notes: once buried, "the coins began to oxidize under the influence of moisture." And hence the headscratcher: nowhere in history (that we know of) does 999, and even 925 gold, oxidize, rust, stain, spot or form patinas, under any conditions. Furthermore, as IRPS discovered, Sberbank of Russia released an internal memorandum ordering the purchase of the defective coins with
the spotted appearance. Sterligoff concludes: "
It should be noted that
the weight and density of the rusty coins coincide with the
characteristics of gold that would be expected after after
conventional testing methods would reveal. We think that the experts
will be interesting to determine the nature of this phenomenon." So just how "real" is 999 gold after all, either in Russia or anywhere else?

As a consequence of this discovery, IRPS decided to "rid itself of all stocks, bought up earlier from the Central Bank on behalf of investors. Investment coins "St. George The
Conqueror", as well as other gold coins of the Bank of Russia, are now
excluded from the company's operations until all circumstances in the case are determined." Additional, as disclosed in the interview below for Here and Now show on TVRainRu, the Russian Central Bank would buy back the coins at a price of 9,300 rubles, despite prevailing prices for the bullion at well over 10,000.

As Zero Hedge has pointed out previously, the Central Bank of Russia has been one of the biggest purchasers of gold in 2010, having bought gold every single month. It would be embarrassing if it were discovered that not only is the bank diluting the gold content once received with oxidizable materials, but subsequently passing it off for 999 proof precious metal.

And if this is happening in Russia, one wonder what trickery other Central Banks, with a far lower amount of gold in their vaults, resort to...

h/t Janis

 

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Fri, 07/16/2010 - 21:35 | 474787 Nolsgrad
Nolsgrad's picture

transcript? I don't speak Ruskie

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 22:22 | 474873 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

The afternoon sun glistened on the sweat that lathered Summers' red forehead as a fly landed on his eye.  He instinctively slapped himself; this nearly woke him up.  "Huh whaftha?  Uhhg..."  He rolled over, never once opening his eyes.  Inside Timmah was busy getting destroyed at PPT.  He had finished all but 12 levels, but now he faced the infamous "Algorithm Machines from Hell".  He had played all afternoon without any luck.  He was exhausted, "Timmah!"

He leaned back in his bean bag chair, and thought about what life would be like if he was CEO of Goldman Sachs.  Then he remembered that BlankCheck was partying in the Hamptons, and as he wondered what Lloyd was up to, his ipaduh beeped. 

Timmah ran over and clicked it off snooze.  There was an urgent message from President Medvedev.  All it said was, 'There is a rumor floating around that I was sold some bunk.  If I find out I was, there will be hell to pay.  For starters, I will make sure Hillary Clinton loses access to all the high profile dating sites in Moscow!'  Timmah did not want Hill upset.  "Timmah!"  He scrolled down to a video link and pressed play:

"It appears that a bald man in a silver suit [flash shot of Ben Bernanke] and wearing a pinky ring has been using the Russian Mint as an underground liar, this from a report by the local news station Khfonunski.  The man was last seen exiting the area in what looked like a flying Smart Car [shot of Bernanke flying out of an opening roof]."

Outside a propeller could be heard, and then a loud bang!  LawWrench Summers snorted and rolled over in his hammock.  The Smart Car had crash landed into the side of the Oak tree.  Timmah ran outside in time to see Bernanke open and fall out the side door.  "Agh, Timmah, they almost shot me down over Siberia.  I could barely stand this thing."  He said as he stood up from his knees.  He pointed to the car, "It is freezing in there, Timmah!  I thought I told you to install a heater?  Do you know how long it takes to make it over the Canadian Arctic?  I nearly froze my balls off!"  Timmah chuckled to himself, "Ti-him-meh!"

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 22:59 | 474928 spekulatn
spekulatn's picture

OUTFRIGGINSTANDING!!

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 03:35 | 475128 Moneygrove
Moneygrove's picture

Gold coins that have been at the sea bottom are cleaned !!!!!!!!!!! Look at ship of gold from monaco coins !!!!!!!!! they become a rusted like  mass that after cleaning are single coins !!!!!!!!  even proof coins have spots!!!!!!!!! story is messed up !!!!!!!!! then saying pcgs coins on ebay are fake ???? one or 2 are and you can check # on pcgs web page !!!!!!!!!! go to ha.com and see what coins are going for today !!!!!!!!!!!!!! p.s i have a 60 x 60 peter max worth about 200k that i got off ebay for $7,500 thanx !!!!!!!! I just got the bill from axa fine art to insure it !!!!!!!!!!!!!   

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 05:06 | 475148 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Dear Moneygrove,

You may not have noticed but one of the keys on your keyboard seems to be sticking. In fact, it appears to be the exclamation point key. And possibly the question mark key. They may just be worn out from over use. May I suggest you simply replace the keyboard? Walmart is running a special this week on wireless units.

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ops, maybe I should take my own advice. :>)

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 09:44 | 475246 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Ah, there you are CD.  It's like going to a loud party and looking for the one sane person you know.  I think I've figured out the reason for this article.  It's total BS so Tyler threw it in the shark tank to see how long it would survive.   It's an all-skate event.  Tyler really is a smart group o' guys/gals.  It let's the steam outta the system and prevents a blow-up.  Look at all the nut cases posting below (and I include myself).  Aren't we having some fun now?  Monday morning we'll buckle down and get on with the serious events of the day.  We'll wake up amidst the broken beer bottles, soggy cigarette butts, nekkid wimmin, and the strange car parked in the living room.  That was fun!

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 12:44 | 475338 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Rust, Bitches!

 

Ha!

 

 

 

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 16:08 | 475463 Jim_Rockford
Jim_Rockford's picture

I thought I saw Gekko leaving the Home Depot with a bottle of Naval Jelly.  I hope he knows the difference between "Naval" and "Navel".  That shit burns like Corexit times 100!

Sun, 07/18/2010 - 02:48 | 475853 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

nah, i just think that the rust look is because there are small amounts of copper in the alloy.  .999 is 22 kt, if the entire alloy (the gold and whatever other metals are in the mix) contain copper, the copper atoms will tend to group together, and sort of "leech" through the "precious metals," giving the coin the look of rust.  It would be helpful if there was greater magnification on the areas in question.

 

disclaimer: "i am neither a metallurgist nor an alchemist. I do have 12 years experience casting precious metals, but my opinion could be wrong and i am just offering my wild ass guess." 

 

disclaimer ii: "i own gold and silver and platinum and palladium and shotguns and shotgun shells and rice and beans... so stay off my lawn, goddamnit. 

Sun, 07/18/2010 - 09:38 | 475967 Richard Weed
Richard Weed's picture

Dude...

999 gold is 23.976 karats

22 karat gold is .917 pure

Are you sure you have been casting precious metals for over 12 years (as you state)...?

Sun, 07/18/2010 - 11:22 | 476005 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

yep, you're right, i was wrong about the purity.  i shouldn't post after tequila shots...

Sun, 07/18/2010 - 09:20 | 475958 Richard Weed
Richard Weed's picture

Dudes...!

When you buy a "999 gold" coin for a 10% premium, you are also getting a lot of impurity... you just paid 10% more for "air"

[the value of the coin you just bought is 90% gold... and 10% air]

I think I would rather have the russian coin which might be 98% gold, 2% impurities, and no "air".

Think about it.

But what do I know, I am just a Dick Weed.

Sun, 07/18/2010 - 11:55 | 476041 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

American Gold Eagles are 22k.  They still contain 1 ounce of gold, hence they weigh more than 1 ounce (1.0909 troy ounces).   I didn't know if you were aware of that so I thought I'd throw it in.

Better a Dick Weed, than a Dick Head, eh?

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 12:48 | 475343 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Don't forget the drunk chinaman precariously perched in the oak in the front yard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3aJ0FVnGzQ&feature=related

Good times

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 18:57 | 475559 knukles
knukles's picture

Why not just "move the keyboard"?  Works swell.

Fri, 04/08/2011 - 19:58 | 1152080 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

Maybe it's not a keyboard problem, maybe he just needs to switch to decaf.

 

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 08:37 | 475207 Pope Clement
Pope Clement's picture

Peter Max has said that much of what is attributed to him is fake!!!! and even stuff he has done is fake too!!!!Pablo P said much the same thing!!!!

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 10:40 | 475277 Tarheel
Tarheel's picture

Russia is corrupt????? OMG!!!!!

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 10:24 | 475267 JohnG
JohnG's picture

Bullshit.

 

.999 gold when real cannot, will not, and has never corroded.  These "rusted like masses" you write of are simply marine life that has grown on the outside of the coin or other piece made from the gold.  It's just chipped off and the mass dropped in acid to clean.

Acid cannot hurt the gold either, unless you are electroplating with pure lab grade sulfuric and a current running through it.

You cannot do this as that acid is extremely hard to come by unless you have a license to purchase for industrial uses.  Not battery acid, not nearly.

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 21:28 | 475640 wafflehead
wafflehead's picture

you dont know what youre talking about buddy ! gold or platinum can be dissolved with a mixture of nitric/hydrochloric acid of 1:4. You should not make comments like these unless you are expert in the field.

Sun, 07/18/2010 - 09:22 | 475960 Richard Weed
Richard Weed's picture

Right you are WaffleFace... aka Acqua Regia... and especially when heated, can dissolve gold in 3 winks of an eye.

Sun, 07/18/2010 - 00:42 | 475810 sullymandias
sullymandias's picture

We sometimes see gold coins which have rust stains on them. Mention this to most people and their jaw drops open, because they are about to say that gold doesn't go rusty. Of course not, but it sometimes gets stored in steel boxes in safes or deposit boxes. If these are then stored in damp or humid conditions, the box may rust, and this can stain the coins if it comes into contact with them. The rust stain can be dissolved using almost any acid, even quite weak one such as lemon juice, vinegar, or the carbonic acid present in fizzy drinks. Obviously these may leave the surface of the coin sticky, but this can be rinsed off. If rust stains are persistent, you could try using a stronger or more concentrated acid (strength and concentration are not the same thing), such as we describe in our page about red spot.

http://www.taxfreegold.co.uk/cleaninggoldcoins.html

Sun, 07/18/2010 - 11:58 | 476045 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

You are SO correct.  I think the whole ordeal is a pile of.... well, you know.

All they had to do was assay the coin and answer the question.  Big deal.

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 00:03 | 474995 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

LMFAO !!

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 11:56 | 475315 Hulk
Hulk's picture

You are something else MR Lennon Hendrix! Bravo!

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 00:54 | 475032 caconhma
caconhma's picture

The summary of this video is simple: there is no such thing as "rusted " gold regardless of what the Russian Central Bank or "independent" appraisers say or do.

It appears that we live in a very fraudulent world. The good news: this is coming to the end.  Similar to what happened following to the fall of the Roman Empire, the mankind is about to go to the "new Dark Ages". WOW!

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 09:41 | 475244 Noah Vail
Noah Vail's picture

I agree, pure gold will not corrode under any circumstances, only when it has impurities will that happen. It does not, however, take much in the way of impurities to cause corrosion. It could be just crappy refining, not intentional fraud. Caveat: the Russians surely know how to do it right.  Solution, assay the suckers, don't f*** around with specualtion. Another solution: don't buy gold from any but the most trusted sources. Some folks hate to pay what they call a premium, but that is the price for trusted coins. Do you like risky gold at a discount? Would you buy Russian or Chinese coins? I surely wouldn't. Caveat emptor.

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 12:52 | 475345 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

ugh! This does not bode well for my Panda.

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 13:30 | 475367 George the baby...
George the baby crusher's picture

Nothing wrong with Pandas.  Have bunches of them, all tested.

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 23:28 | 475742 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

You may want to avoid the Zimbabwe Mugabes they are selling on Craigslist.

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 01:48 | 475073 russki standart
russki standart's picture

Transcript? Who needs one, lets just nuke the F@cks and get it over with once and for all! Hey Obama, ??????, are you paying attention?

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 01:50 | 475076 russki standart
russki standart's picture

It´s easy. When dealing with a russian whore, all you need to know is , iti suda, iti von!

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 04:18 | 475136 Arbman
Arbman's picture

This is too bad. What a pitty. If you could understand Russian, you would be laughing your head off.

 

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 04:19 | 475138 Arbman
Arbman's picture

This is too bad. What a pitty. If you could understand Russian, you would be laughing your head off.

 

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 05:17 | 475152 choob
choob's picture

Man, ZH used to be great, now we're becoming as alarmist and 'let's ignore the possibilities to further our own agenda'-ist as the lamestreamers.

Gold coins often spot with rust from the containers they are stored in. Unless the coins are properly chemically analysed we're all full of shit.

Ejumacate yo'self

http://www.taxfreegold.co.uk/cleaninggoldcoins.html

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 13:18 | 475359 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Not head scratching at all...Gold does not rust...period.

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 21:37 | 474791 DarkAgeAhead
DarkAgeAhead's picture

There could be chocolate in those gold coins from the looks of it!

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 21:45 | 474805 atriuum
atriuum's picture

It Russia.  The gold rust, and the cho-co-lat smells like fecum magnificum.

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 00:34 | 475020 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

Maybe the spots were caused by Al Gore gisum on gold coins he paid the Russian masseuse with...

If Gore's masseuse looked anything like that hot Russian blonde anchorette...

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 09:28 | 475238 nmewn
nmewn's picture

That's it!!!

We have a winner!

The coin in question has just released it's pent up Chukara...it will feel and look better in a minute ;-)

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 21:38 | 474792 ratava
ratava's picture

this sounds like some sort of scam to make citizens turn in their gold at under market price

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 22:13 | 474860 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

Me think this sound like no brainer. The question that can't be answered is "how much". I would like to think not a lot. But I would also like to think that the world has not been lost to the lowest common denominator, which of course calls into question my thought processes.

Even I see it.

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 21:40 | 474794 Misean
Misean's picture

Well, at least Russian dating sites are real...

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 09:49 | 475247 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Yes, but what you pick up from there isn't exactly gold.

/Not speaking of experience, though I have dated Eastern European women.

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 10:26 | 475269 tom a taxpayer
tom a taxpayer's picture

Mel Gibson has some tips on dating Russians.

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 23:32 | 475746 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Rumor is he is writing a book "Idiots Guide to Dating Russian Models".

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 21:40 | 474796 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Huh...interesting.. And to think I was just spending time with this weeks '64s and thinking about how I liked their condition :)

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 21:40 | 474797 bugs_
bugs_'s picture

I wonder how much these certified rusting gold coins would go for on ebay?!

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 21:49 | 474816 nmewn
nmewn's picture

+.999

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 21:40 | 474798 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

There could have been steel filings in the air that stuck to the gold and rusted.

I had a set of polished aluminum wheels stored at a friends garage. I was there once so I just had a look at them, they had a thin coat of rust on them. I figured out that the guy was using a wire wheel grinder in the garage and the particles from that stuck lightly to the wheels and caused the rusted look. It polished off in 2 seconds. My bet is that  there was work being done on the vault.

PS. Jonny Bravo is a day trading douche bag and has no business commenting on golds LONG TERM bull market.

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 21:48 | 474813 zaknick
zaknick's picture

Jonny Bravo is a punk in drag choking on a ......

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 01:43 | 475066 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

Oh yeah ? I wish this wasn't the Internet either. Then I could break those fucking fingers of yours off so that you would stop spouting off about the hourly gyrations in the gold price in a potentiall 20 year bull market.

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 08:07 | 475191 goldfreak
goldfreak's picture

Jonny is Nadler, am telling you, the same cowardly punk

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 01:39 | 475063 tmosley
tmosley's picture

If junks were punches, JB would have been a fine powder long ago.

Internet tough guy, and I'm not talking about the poster of the same name.

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 21:48 | 474815 BrosMacManus
BrosMacManus's picture

JB/Master Bater's a progressive punk still in school, writing as if he's more intelligent, enlightened, educated and world wise, when in reality, the world is gonna eat his ass up once he has to go out into it with his useless BS/BA, Masters or Ph-f'nd.

I think he's a fag too.

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 22:06 | 474849 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

yeah he must be a fag, Keynes was too.

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 23:04 | 474932 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

socrates, plato, alexander the great, michelangelo, leonardo da vinci.  all fags.

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 23:10 | 474939 KevinB
KevinB's picture

Don't forget John Wayne. John Wayne was a fag.

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 01:33 | 475058 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

RepoMan?

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 04:11 | 475135 dnarby
dnarby's picture

It's true you boys.  I installed two-way mirrors at his pad in Brentwood.  He came to the door in a dress.

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 13:18 | 475361 BrosMacManus
BrosMacManus's picture

blasphemy!

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 23:30 | 475744 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Don't forget John Wayne. John Wayne was a fag.

Fill your hand, you son of a bitch!

Sun, 07/18/2010 - 23:49 | 476519 Augustus
Augustus's picture

What about Chuck Norris?  do you know all about him also?

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 01:00 | 475034 Steak
Steak's picture

since you brought it up...would you consider yourself a genius?

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 08:48 | 475212 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Most intellectuals are not geniuses.

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 14:16 | 475394 megatoxic
megatoxic's picture

Johnny-

Since you and I seem to be favorite "junk" targets for the Gold-tards, let me ask you something:

Many of my posts ridiculing the Idolaters end up disappearing.  Any idea why?

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 01:43 | 475069 tmosley
tmosley's picture

No, they were all homosexuals.  A fag is not necessarily homosexual.  A fag is someone who seeks attention by being persistently loud, obnoxious, and boorish.

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 12:45 | 475339 RichardENixon
RichardENixon's picture

I thought a fag was a cigarette.

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 04:49 | 475145 Souverainiste
Souverainiste's picture

To be gay is to be a sexual contrarian.  I bet they get a better ROI.

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 08:51 | 475218 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Bawney Fwank does. - Ned

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 19:18 | 475569 Cui Bono
Cui Bono's picture

Hope you don't mind the kidding but at first glance I misread your comment as:

 

Bawney Fwank does :- Ned

and I thought, what an odd way to out yourself....

Punctuation is everything !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (in the parlance of our times).  CB

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 06:29 | 475167 Teaser
Teaser's picture

Federal army generals?  I don't think any of those guys were.

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 18:02 | 475524 fxrxexexdxoxmx
fxrxexexdxoxmx's picture

The vast majority of pedophiles are fags. Over 80 percent of priests who sexually molested boys are fags. Fags are really cool and smart. Once fags turn 30 years old being a fag is a lonely and sad life. Just look around at all the old gay couples who are happy and still together. A fags life is great.

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 01:01 | 475036 Steak
Steak's picture

don't hate...congratulate

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 01:50 | 475075 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

degrees have nothing to do with being a genius.. it is strictly IQ

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 02:04 | 475095 Steak
Steak's picture

IQ is nothing more than processor speed...genius requires connections between disparate parts of the brain as well

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 07:03 | 475173 Popo
Popo's picture

"I've already ran a company in my day"

Did they use English there?

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 08:44 | 475210 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

Zingggg!

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 21:55 | 474829 Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

You make a good point.  Gold will not dissolve in hydrochloric acid.  Throw them in HCl and if they dissolve, they are not gold.  In the process, it will remove the rust.

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 02:48 | 475116 Dantzler
Dantzler's picture

I heart chemistry.

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 13:34 | 475371 George the baby...
George the baby crusher's picture

You might heart chemistry, I kidney physics.

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 08:51 | 475216 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"In the process, it will remove the rust."

ROTFL.

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 21:59 | 474838 LeBalance
LeBalance's picture

Mr. Spit: JB is either a con or a simple soul who does not understand that de-basement is anything other than a floor in a building.

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 22:06 | 474850 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

lol

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 02:02 | 475093 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

First you say I am an idiot for saying gold was up today in Canadian dollars even when I am Canadian.

Now you are pricing the US Dollar in the DXY which has the Canadian dollar in it !

 

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 08:26 | 475195 goldfreak
goldfreak's picture

Jonny, you Nadleretard

 

time for a new name Bitch,

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 01:04 | 475039 Steak
Steak's picture

JB might be on a douchy streak in this thread...but it does seem like with the proper impetus he could have something insightful to say...if you're gonna spill out some haterade at least mention something specific he said

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 01:46 | 475070 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Directly above your comment, he acts like he called the exact top and bottom, as though you could trade with perfect foresight.  No, he didn't make those calls.  He has been calling for triple digit gold ever since it went above 1000.  

He is a liar and a fraud.

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 02:07 | 475099 Steak
Steak's picture

exactly...douchy, totally...but for those of us who know even a little about finance can easily see that as baseless hubris and ignore it forthwith...and for those who know nothing about the markets and trading, well they're here to see what tyler and others have to say, not that guy

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 13:32 | 475369 BrosMacManus
BrosMacManus's picture

Master Bater flames whenever he can, so having something specific to point to in any given thread is no prerequisite anyone should be compelled to follow.

Johnny Bravo is an American animated television series created by Van Partible for the Cartoon Network. The series stars a muscular beefcake young man named Johnny Bravo, who dons a pompadour hairstyle and Elvis Presley-like tone of voice personality. Plots typically revolve around him trying to get a woman that he has targeted throughout the episode to fall in love with him. He is often beat up or stunned by his target or companions, or gets ditched by them in the end. Due to his narcissistic and dim-witted traits he tends to be attracted to any woman.

I still think he's a fag.

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 01:27 | 475053 bigkahuna
bigkahuna's picture

Speaking of price and currency deflation or inflation -- currency inflation=price inflation and vise versa? I see price inflation on some food items and price deflation in most real estate. It looks like we are having currency deflation. No one has any cash and those who do are deleveraging. As far as price inflation/deflation-it looks like big ticket items are deflating and items like food are inflating in price. It looks like a prelude to further confusion and instability to me. If anyone has this (street level) madness figured out then they do deserve some kind of award. As far as the high level madness with the fed, bankers, and politicians--well thats easy, they're a bunch of sociopaths.

Best advice here is the Boy Scout Motto: "Be Prepared"

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 09:55 | 475251 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture
Bring Out Your Dead

 

In any debt crisis, the foremost concern of creditors is to get paid back. Compared to that, returns on investment come in a weak second. In a sovereign debt crisis, the question of repayment is complicated by the fact that the debtors control the creation of the currency units that will ultimately be used for payments.

Individual and institutional holders of U.S. Treasuries, along with other assets amounting to trillions of U.S. currency units, can see with their own eyes what’s going on. To continue holding such large quantities of instruments denominated in these unbacked currency units – or those labeled “euros” or “yen” – is to risk being left with a lot of worthless paper as the governments try to repay debtors by creating the stuff, literally, out of thin air.

And so these holders diversify their portfolios into alternative, and far more tangible, assets – gold and silver included. That is the fuel that has sent gold higher over the last ten years and that will keep it high – short-term corrections

notwithstanding.

More fun reading here:

http://www.caseyresearch.com/displayCdd.php?id=485

 

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 22:24 | 475698 Max UK
Max UK's picture


"Ever hear of trends changing?  That's why I don't invest long term."

And there it is, the very thing that separates you from the gold bugs.

It is not even just the time horizon thing; YOU are 'investing'. Once you reach some milestone of success, you might become increasingly concerned with wealth preservation. The arguments for seeking returns in gold, and seeking refuge in gold, are totally different. I get the impression from your posts that you see no distinction; that you are busy doing short term trades, and assume that that is all that everybody else is doing.

Sun, 07/18/2010 - 02:42 | 475852 Max UK
Max UK's picture

I was responding to a Johnny Bravo post, now disappeared.

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 21:42 | 474799 atriuum
atriuum's picture

Awwwww.  And, I was so looking forward to that gold-backed Russian mulah, and now look,  someone planted the seed of doubt.

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 21:44 | 474800 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Well, well, well.  Russians lie.  Big surprise.  Lies everywhere.

But all of this shows that Gold is a very BIG and complicated subject.  Always something new to learn.

I'll take mine physical please.

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 22:51 | 474909 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Found a link to an article in Russian.

http://www.newsru.com/finance/16jul2010/gold.html

There is an endless link-loop back to ZH, etc.

I smell a rat.... or a jumped shark.

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 01:06 | 475040 Steak
Steak's picture

good on ya for doing some extra digging rocky...it might be a simple google search but it is helpful to see what you came up with

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 09:35 | 475241 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Do a Google search using "Russian gold rust".

A lot of the results give you this article on ZH, and ... roundy, roundy, roundy.

That was last night, and it's probably a lot stronger today, but I need to tend to my garden so I ain't got time to check it out.

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 02:31 | 475113 thesapein
thesapein's picture

What do you mean? It doesn't loop my browser back to ZH and I can't find a ZH link there.

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 23:07 | 474935 Mad Max
Mad Max's picture

Wolfram, bitches!

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 21:45 | 474804 London Dude Trader
London Dude Trader's picture

Yeah but come on, Russia is run by crooks!

Come to think of it, so are most other countries with the exception of GS and the Vatican, as they do god's work after all, so their purity is guaranteed by the highest authority. 

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 21:46 | 474808 The 22nd Prime
The 22nd Prime's picture

Rusty Gold with Kramer avatar coming...

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 21:47 | 474809 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Statist's can't even make a decent forgery...LOL.

 

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 21:57 | 474837 drwells
drwells's picture

I'll admit I'm impressed with the beating modern green toilet paper can take. I once peeled a $20 off the asphalt in a pouring rain. Once it dried it was good as new. Hell, once it devalues enough I can probably save money by wiping my ass with it and running it through the washing machine.

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 22:09 | 474856 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

The Russians are just trying to talk down the price you stupid fuck. Congrats,You are their first victom

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 22:24 | 474879 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

The only thing I was worried about was that the price would not fall so I could buy more.

 

Did the KGB hire you to rub this story in ?

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 23:37 | 474968 RoRoTrader
RoRoTrader's picture

Spitzer,

What is the IQ of gold?

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 23:37 | 475752 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

Where you telling Gordon Brown when the price of gold will fall too ?

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 22:47 | 474912 Muir
Muir's picture

@megatoxic

"Paper money is cool.

You can use it to buy stuff, like food and gas and short ETF's.

You can even use it to "invest" in phony yellow metal when the stuff is trading at a multi-cycle peak."

 

Thank you, that was a good laugh.

Though gold can be cool also. I enjoy fondling my precious at times.

The fault is being gold or paper centric.

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 22:59 | 474927 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Are your precious open to some extracurricular fondling?

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 09:27 | 475236 andy55
andy55's picture

Please show some class and change your avatar.

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 09:57 | 475254 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Yessireee Bob!  Beaker was one classy guy.

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 10:11 | 475263 nmewn
nmewn's picture

He doesn't get it.

It's the study of gravitational pull!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IlHgbOWj4o

 

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 01:59 | 475088 dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

lol

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 21:53 | 474811 megatoxic
megatoxic's picture

Rust on your gold, bitchez!

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 21:53 | 474827 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

LOL!

+ Something

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 22:04 | 474848 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Maples, bitch.

Why?

Because I wouldn't want it confused with U.S. currency ;-)

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 21:49 | 474817 CustomersMan
CustomersMan's picture

 

Another possibility is that, someone or some other country, is counterfeiting the coins, for any one of multiple reasons.

 

Such as, slowing the purchases of gold by retail and other investors or throwing a cloud over Russia's reputation in the markets involved as well as other markets, establishing the fact that gold coins may not be anywhere near .999 so thereafter other coins may be watered down.

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 03:25 | 475125 Hansel
Hansel's picture

+1, things happen in the world and then each person comes to a conclusion, but only a handful of people will ever know what really happened.

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 21:49 | 474820 TomB
TomB's picture

And hence the headscratcher: nowhere in history (that we know of) does 999, and even 925 gold, oxidize, rust, stain, spot or form patinas, under any conditions.

Actually, brown or red spots on gold coins and bars are quite normal. It's usually due to contamination of trace amounts of other metals.

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 21:55 | 474830 ozziindaus
ozziindaus's picture

Actually, brown or red spots on gold coins and bars are quite normal. It's usually due to contamination of trace amounts of other metals.

BUT it most often happens when they're phony. .999. Other metals??

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 22:06 | 474851 TomB
TomB's picture

Just Google it, plenty of people have reported seeing red/brown spots on 999 coins.

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 22:20 | 474871 demsco
demsco's picture

it is normal on eagles, not on .999 or higher bullion, in my experience. Eagles have silver and copper which produce the spots or a red haze on the coin, cherry in appearance, totally normal, but a maple which is pure, never seen it.

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 22:32 | 474887 Muir
Muir's picture

Agreed.

I've had Philharmonics for years.

For all I kid the goldbugs, I enjoy the fondling the precious, and at least my coins are as shiny yellow as looking at the sun on LSD after these many years.

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 08:50 | 475215 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

+999  I am partial to the Phils myself.

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 22:44 | 474908 Rebel
Rebel's picture

I see the red spots on Mexican 50 pesos. They check out with one of those little thickness/diameter scales as expected, so I have never worried about a few small spots of toning. I notice the toning more on coins that were used in a bezel as jewelry.

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 23:14 | 474945 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

as noted above, coins are not .999.  they are usually .900, a hundred times less pure.  it is said that a good deal of the gold bars left in the u.s. reserves are .900 melt from the fdr seizure.

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 23:18 | 474951 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

make that 'coins are rarely .999.'

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 09:14 | 475232 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

Not even rarely, when you consider how many Maples, Phils & Pandas are about.

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 21:12 | 475084 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Gold is picky about what it alloys with, which is why you only find it with silver and copper in mines.

Let's see what do you call one of these alloys.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrum

But once it alloys with silver and copper then those 2 elements can bring in garbage collecting.

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 23:37 | 475754 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

How do some bars end up with a tungsten core?  Maybe the coins were made from tungsten salted bars?

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 06:47 | 475165 zhandax
zhandax's picture

This is not  unprecedented: the Russians produce a similar bullion coin in silver.  If they produce both in close proximity, this could simply be silver contamination.  This from the Kitco forum archives: 

The Perth mint was NOTORIOUS for their early proof coins getting red spot after a few years.. They traced it to silver contamination.

https://www.kitcomm.com/archive/index.php?t-13853.html

For .999 coins in a co-mint environment this would likely be the indicated 2-3 nanometer thickness stains and if these are legitimate .999 coinage, I imagine the Russian mint will insist on testing to establish this fact shortly.  Then again, this is 2010, and nothing would surprise me.

The 2-3 nanometer thickness is sourced from http://www.springerlink.com/content/qc3nx8fdpendtvfm/

Original PDF: http://www.zlate-mince.cz/Red_dot_on_coins_surface.pdf

 

 

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 00:15 | 475006 sneering nihilist
sneering nihilist's picture

i've owned a few maples that have had red spots on them (that i have since traded at a local coin shop), and currently own several slabbed gold commemorative coins that are toned.  red spots on gold coins may not be common, but they are not exactly rare either.

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 22:28 | 474884 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

Thats correct.

I am actually surprised that Tyder posted the story.

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 00:11 | 475000 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

but..but, do you mean that the other .001% could be copper, silver, etc., etc??

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 23:21 | 474955 Instant Karma
Instant Karma's picture

Interesting topic. I've been collecting gold coins for a couple years. Not just random bullion coins like Maple Leafs of Eagles or Philharmonics, but also older American Saints and Liberty's. All the older coins from the 1880s and early 1900s have been authenticated by the two top tier grading services: PCGS and NGC.

Here's what I think I know.

1. .999(9) fine gold should be gold and pristine. No rust or spots. This fineness of coins is made everywhere except the US, which has traditionally made .9 fine coins ever since the early 1800s to the present day eagles. In fact, the .9999 gold Buffaloes made by the US mint in 2006 was the first .9999 bullion coin ever made in the US.

2. Therefore, it is common to see even high grade authenticated US gold Liberty's and Saints with a couple coppery colored spots here and there. Because the remaining 10% not gold is indeed copper and a little silver. Never seen rust. In fact, some of the highest grade specimens known to exist of the old Liberty double eagles have prominent copper spotting.

3. Rust? That's a bad sign. Someone may be debasing the gold?

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 23:31 | 474965 Instant Karma
Instant Karma's picture

FYI: the coin pictured has a rusty spot on the left mid section. Also, it could be the pic but .999 gold coins have a distinctive deep gold color, that this coin does not. Looks more like .9 fine if it is gold.

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 01:11 | 475044 Steak
Steak's picture

solid breakdown...these copper spots...green i suppose?

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 02:00 | 475090 defender
defender's picture

they should actually turn pink if it is copper.  think black hills gold jewelry, as they are colored with copper.

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 06:12 | 475163 Instant Karma
Instant Karma's picture

No green that I've even seen (rhymes...). Always ranges from light orange to dark orange. You can see faint orange spotting even on freshly minted gold American Eagles (.9 fine). I have also seen some old American Liberty double eagles that have spots that are superficial and almost a little greyish or blackish. From the silver I suppose.

One thing Tyler danced around when describing the chemical properties of gold, could use some clarification. Gold is not inert. The inert elements begin with the column of the periodic table headed by Helium. These elements for all intents and purposes do not react with anything, ever.

Gold is not inert. It reacts chemically quite readily. However, it does not oxidize (corrode) meaning it doesn't react with oxygen. That's why you can pull a gold coin or gold bar off the bottom of the sea after a thousand years and its brilliant as ever.

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 07:16 | 475178 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

I have been buying double eagles since the late 1960s...reddish/pinkish is common, I have never seen one turn green or oxidize/rust. I have Mexican Pesos from the same era and it is common for them to look 'copperish', even when newly minted. Coin dealers back then often avoided Mexican Pesos because they didn't like the color. I have not seen older Krands and new Krands discolor...nor Maple Leafs.

I checked out the site that R Raccoon found but I do not read Russian.

What really ticks me off is that Hong Kong Ebayers are selling tons of 'reproduction' coins on Ebay. Whats with this? If a US citizen faked old US coins and put them for sale on Ebay they would likely be prosecuted for counterfieting.

This story was probably dreamed up by oligarchs, soverign states, wishing to beat down the price of gold by any means, so they can purchase at a lower price.

The story does not alter my long term portfolio one whit. Why should anyone care if a few Russian 'gold' coins are fakes...assuming that they are fake and have not been in contact with rusting iron in high humidity environment.

Hell, back in the 1950s one of my uncles had some vending routes and finding a fake quarter or fifty cent coin happened about every other day...in an era that gas was .23 cents/gal and ciggs were .25 cents/pack.

I still have a fifty cent piece made of aluminum and its a beautiful strike...just a bit light. :)

Back in the 1950s more purchases were made with a few dollars worth of coins (a bag of groceries cost a couple of dollars) and one fake mixed in with the real coins was easy to pass. They did not work in vending machines but would at times jam a machine and that is how vending route guys found them.

This Russian story is small potatoes imo.

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 08:15 | 475197 Instant Karma
Instant Karma's picture

Here's a link to an article by our friends at NGC, one of the 2 top tier coin authentication and grading services:

http://www.ngccoin.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?NewsletterNewsArticleID=572

Again: the consensus is that a .999 fine gold coin (as pictured above) and spotting/discoloration is inconsistent.

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 08:30 | 475202 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"This story was probably dreamed up by oligarchs, soverign states, wishing to beat down the price of gold by any means, so they can purchase at a lower price."

Shhhhh ;-)

This is why I screamed dump your gold sarcastically on this thread...someone didn't get my humor and junked it...LOL.

If we know it's value and are determined to hold why would we care what it's valued in fiat? We know it's value is greater than any fiat given now in exchange.

Pure conjecture on my part but yesterdays plummet in gold priced in fiat terms could well have been margin calls demanding to be paid in gold or margin calls where the participant did not have fiat and had to liquidate gold holdings into fiat for the call. Maybe Paulson as pointed out here on ZH, maybe more than just one little hedgie in the market with no roast beef.

We'll know soon enough.

 

Sat, 07/17/2010 - 16:15 | 475469 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

Arrrgh Matey, methinks you right!

I listen to the fiat boosters and laugh. Pure fiat is a bet on future production in a world economy where future production is beginning to look dubious...to be kind.

Gold is based on past production. A rare mineral has to be located, mined, refined, cast or stamped, delivered to market.

So I say to the fiat boosters; which would you rather have...a piece of paper that will be worth something if future production occurs...Or, a piece of gold that has already been produced and is in your hand...with no possible liability based on future production?

It's a pretty simple choice, no? lol

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 21:50 | 474821 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

Da, da.

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 21:52 | 474824 Mae Kadoodie
Mae Kadoodie's picture

Sounds like someone is getting a rusty sanchez.

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 21:52 | 474825 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

Holy S**T!

Fri, 07/16/2010 - 22:00 | 474840 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Of course...what was I thinking.

OMG ALL THE GOLD IN THE WORLD IS TAINTED...DUMP IT NOW!!!!!!!!!

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!