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Samples Confirm Corexit Ingredients In Gulf Spill Area Far Above Toxic Concentrations
Yet another data point on why the Obama administration and BP are both so concerned about media access to spill areas comes courtesy of this youtube video by jamescfox. In his own words: "Oil and water samples were taken from both the Shores of Grand Isle and from 20 miles out. The preliminary analysis was done at an academic analytical chemistry laboratory. Looking for the likely pollutants from the deep water Horizon Oil spill. It was focused on the detection of benzene and propylene glycol. Benzene and other highly toxic contaminants were very low however the concentration of propylene glycol was between 360 and 440 parts per million. Just 25 parts per million is know to kill most fish and propylene glycol is just one of many ingredients found in Corexit. In short, the Gulf is being poisoned by BP's usage of the dispersants even after the EPA asked them to stop back in May. We are willing to provide ANY respected/known laboratory these samples or provide them with more. This is very serious to all people and marine life in and around the Gulf."
Full video:
h/t Tony
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Remind me why we care about whiny little pensions in Britain again?
Top institutional holders:
Some are custodians, yes.. but I dont see many Plcs in there.. lots of US names.. the UK pensions are exposed yes, but I dont think that badly. And no, you do not care about them, but pensions in the US do.
State Street Global Advisors (US) 43,453,340 31/03/10 13F 723,669 1.69% 0.49% 1.39% Wellington Management Company, LLP 34,841,626 31/03/10 13F 3,165,145 9.99% 0.74% 1.11% Barrow, Hanley, Mewhinney & Strauss, Inc. 16,700,677 31/03/10 13F 2,099,861 14.38% 2.05% 0.53% State Farm Insurance Companies 13,052,048 31/03/10 13F 0 0.00% 1.63% 0.42% T. Rowe Price Associates, Inc. 12,442,139 31/03/10 13F 348,288 2.88% 0.27% 0.40% Columbia Management Advisors, LLC 11,976,119 31/03/10 13F -769,792 -6.04% 0.57% 0.38% Fidelity Management & Research 7,826,686 31/03/10 13F -300,889 -3.70% 0.08% 0.25% Tradewinds Global Investors, LLC 7,436,248 31/03/10 13F 126,460 1.73% 2.25% 0.24% Cascade Investment, L.L.C. 7,133,000 31/03/10 13F 2,500,000 53.96% 2.37% 0.23% Goldman Sachs Asset Management (US) 6,025,387 31/03/10 13F -4,680,822 -43.72% 0.36% 0.19% PNC Wealth Management 5,407,184 31/03/10 13F -1,179,411 -17.91% 0.85% 0.17% Van Kampen Asset Management 5,110,116 31/03/10 13F -32,149 -0.63% 0.59% 0.16% FAF Advisors, Inc. 4,936,312 31/03/10 13F -98,593 -1.96% 0.94% 0.16% Wells Fargo Bank, N.A. 4,540,623 31/03/10 13F 2,398,870 112.00% 0.63% 0.14% ClearBridge Advisors 4,427,590 31/03/10 13F 393,019 9.74% 0.47% 0.14% Columbia Management Investment Advisers, LLC 4,323,091 31/03/10 13F -116,033 -2.61% 0.41% 0.14% Morgan Stanley Smith Barney LLC 4,107,143 31/03/10 13F 525,969 14.69% 0.42% 0.13% Northern Trust Global Investments 3,982,422 31/03/10 13F -151,354 -3.66% 0.42% 0.13% Fiduciary Management, Inc. 3,873,284 31/03/10 13F 308,780 8.66% 3.24% 0.12% BNY Mellon Wealth Management 3,609,331 31/03/10 13F -146,998 -3.91% 0.78% 0.12%Thanks for posting that, and it shows the true reason O-bam-ah thinks that a Chapter 13 by BP would be detrimental to the economy.
Admiral Thad "Do what BP says" Nelson:
Is this guy gonna run for Prez in 2012 or what?
You know that thing they use to push the meat into the grinder so you don't lose your hand when making ground beef?
Yeah, from now on that's called a "Thad".
Is that like a hanging Thad?
Hanging out to dry.
Well, thank God for healthcare reform, aye?! LOL
Hey Admiral Chad.. propylene glycol....humm, isn't that the stuff in 'KY' and 'Glide' that makes 'taking it' sooo much more fun?????
You mean to say Chapter 11.
JP Morgan Chase Bank, holding 27.74% of the total ordinary issued share capital (excluding shares held in treasury) as the approved depositary for ADSs, a breakdown of which is shown in the table below. right from BP's website
http://www.bp.com/extendedsectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9010453&co....
There is a HUGE conflict of interest in JP Morgan's analyst they are trying to keep BP's share price from completely collapsing .
The Obamanation is protecting BP by allowing the US coast guard to serve as their lackeys. We need independent 3rd party evidence to measure toxicity and provide an unbiased opinion. Where the hell is Greenpeace, Sierra Club and the rest of the eviro-nazis when you need them...perhaps in BPs pocket...follow the money.
Re British Pensioners, ... F@ck them. They can sue BP to get their money back.
Be-cause the British fund managers leveraged the BP shares about a 100 times and bought lots and lots of "AAA" Fannie & Freddie toilet-paper with the money - to help out The One?
I'll never swim at another Florida beach again in my life. Take a 100 years clear that shit from the water. Wouldn't let my kid take one step in Florida sand either. Shit is everywhere.
The spill off Mexico took about 30 years to get mostly back to normal.... still, 30 years is a long fucking time.
Wow. Definitely worth the 10 minutes to watch.
I really don't even know what to say. It's July 8. What will the world, our country, look like by August 8 or November 8. The "toxicity of ground zero" comparison works for me to some degree but this seems far worse. I truly fear for the survival of the Republic (or what's left of it).
Okay, now, whom do you believe? The above video makes you feel that the Gulf will be a dead zone shortly. And then you read a comment like the one below from Noah Vail and wonder who is telling the truth.
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/buyers-pour-bp#comment-458626
Uh maybe Noah is just full of shit.
The man you're quoting is laughably, horribly, foolishly naive...and his grammar for shit.
the dead creatures sink and rot....
The willful stupidity of some people guarantee sarah palin a paycheck.
Noah Vail is a sack of sh@t shilling for BP or talking his book. Either way, he is full of BS. If the spill was grossly overhyped, the BP eco-swine would allow you to take a look and would not spend money on dispersants to hide the size of the spill. There is too much independent evidence to believe this clown... just check out youtube or the oildrum.com and form your own opinion
well anybody that talks about "leftist, greenie, anti oil media" is a scumbag in my opinion. the media in the u.s. is anything but leftist...god im so sick of the b.s. in this god forsaken delusional land. hey guys, guess what? it's the commies! its the commies, and the collectivists, and those evil socialists, they have come to rape your women and they are disguised as big mega corporations like BP....its so evil.....its those leftist mega corporations mixed with the ghost of that evil Che and Ted Kennedy and most of sweden and they are just destroying the reputation of the good people in the oil industry. oh its soo horrible
and you know what they solution is? just give the mega corporations more money!...yes and lower their taxes and lower everybodies taxes cuz no poor mama gonna get my money...and hey lets build those death stars tho, and lets make sure the military budget is from here to mars, cuz we need it cuz the commies are commin...the commies are commin
That was shallower, warmer water.
The 2 degree water at the bottom of Macondo Canyon defeats most biological organisms breaking the oil down, if the Corexit does not kill them.
Basically what we are talking about is deliberate Major Coverup by BP, Coast Guard, DOI Fish & Wildlife, EPA, GS, NLC, NOAA, O, XOM and hired accomplices including academics and security guards re the systematic poisoniong of the Gulf air, land and water that put 21 million residents at risk.
yeah, but just think of all the green jobs obama will create out of this
"crisis"
yeah, for BP, Al Gore, the CCX and the rest of the cabal. Meanwhile, the US taxpayers will take it again, greek style.
All of Florida?
Down here in South East Florida we dump raw sewage into "ocean access" canals every so often - the 2 million gallons a few weeks ago come to mind.
Microbes probably like that too but ...
Pete.
This is essentially dinosaur sewage, and what is floating on top is a tiny fracgtion of what is underwater creating a toxic dead zone spreading from the Gulf to the Atlantic.
This is essentially dinosaur sewage, and what is floating on top is a tiny fraction of what is underwater creating a toxic dead zone spreading from the Gulf to the Atlantic.
You sir...should work for the MSM. You are very good at slanting the facts, making them sound to your liking.
Here is a quote from the Miami newspaper on the subject...an accident, a break in the main pipe...not some scheduled planned event done at night to escape the eye of the public.
Shame on you.
"A major sanitary sewer main broke on Friday along the Miami River, causing millions of gallons of raw sewage to be dumped into the river and ..."
now if you are that careful about what crap food and drink enters their little bodies, maybe they can live long enough to go to the beach again. Indeed, shit is everywhere, look in your own kitchen.
we need to spread this information to as many people as possible and hope the main media picks up the story.
The main media picks it up... hahahahahahahahaha... good one! Thanks for the laugh.
Agreed. MSM is, and has always been, in bed with the powers that be. Do not expect salvation from the MSM.
"We are willing to provide ANY respected/known laboratory these samples or provide them with more."
Sadly, if they wish to remain a "respected/known laboratory" they will never touch "these samples" because the PTB have explained very carefully where the consensus opinion is regarding what's going down in the Gulf. "Nothing to see here, now move along."
Tyler, you're asking a corporation to exhibit moral courage and risk it's bottom line survival. Not in a blue moon will that happen, unless it's a family owned private lab that doesn't do government or large corporation work.
CD, don't think Tyler is asking a corporation to do that. In fact, acknowledging the opposite (your scenario) will happen. Don't mean to speak for him.
Enjoyed your comments on the other string this morning. Thx.
I saw the quotation marks but didn't stop to think who was being quoted. Of course it wasn't Tyler now that I think about it. Amazing what happens when I use the 10 lbs of gray matter. Thanks for pointing out the obvious to me. Once again, I break my rule about reading something at least twice before acting on it and I burn myself. :>)
Try 3 pounds doc...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_brain
Time to move project mayhem to the next phase.
Start collecting Gulf water and mail it to top executives & politicians across the country through the USPS so that the water spills out as soon as the package is opened.
"Ewwww, what's this crap? OMFG! Gulf water?!?!? NOOOOO! I got it all over me!! Call 911! Call the USPS! They can't ship toxic materials without a permit!!!"
But wait, it's just pure wholesome 100% healthy Gulf water.
**Tastes like Happy**
**Smells Like Teen Spirit** too
LOL
Propylene Glycol
A cosmetic form of mineral oil found in automatic brake and hydraulic fluid and industrial antifreeze. In the skin and hair, propylene glycol works as a humescent, which causes retention of moisture content of skin or cosmetic products by preventing the escape of moisture or water. The Material Safety Data Sheet warns users to avoid skin contact with propylene glycol as this strong skin irritant can cause liver abnormalities and kidney damage.
http://www.natural-health-information-centre.com/propylene-glycol.html
Good idea to cache former MSDSs
as Nalco et al eliminated references
to red blood cell, kidney and liver
damage that zapped Exxon Valdez cleanup workers...
Just wait until the first direct hit hurricane showers the Gulf Coast and areas inland. A hard rain's a'gonna fall.
The South will be easier to control now. Guns for food. Martial law will be a cinch.
Burning rain.
Crops already failing.
Both CNN and MSNBC last night featured a marine scientist from UCSB who has been requesting to lead a study on simply where the oil fractions are going in the water and why. He has had Congressman Markey and others officially asking BP to get back to him.
BP hasn't gotten back to him.
The public is not supposed to know what is really going on. Another news article today states that BP has acknowledged a 20% rate of exposure among cleanup workers, similar to the Exxon Valdez toxins. Personally on this site I calculated that a 100 million gallon release could technically 'poison' (over the thresholds usually mentioned, actually twice that to be conservative) roughly one third of the Gulf, if it mixed perfectly. Sadly, that was a month ago with lower release rate estimates. We passed that point a while ago. I stopped calculating.
Did you calculations account for the new water from the oceans that is constantly being swept into the gulf?
All new water has to stay at least 65 feet from the entrance to the gulf or it will be arrested.
Hey, not very constructive. The calculation can still give us a number to work with. I don't think he meant for it to replace any dynamic modeling.
The Gulf is very complex that way. A lot comes in and then exits (Loop Current) but around the margins water stays for a long time (dead zones etc.). I was more interested in the idea that the NE quadrant could be impacted in a 'total wipeout' fashion. If there are enough storms and/or the Loop Current meanders up in there it would help to dilute things...but for the most part I am afraid that 'refreshment' from the N Atlantic gyre isn't going to do much for the NE Gulf margin.
No, no dynamic modeling. Somebody get on that......please......
Before they were sanitized, the MSDS required goggles and respirators for those coming into direct contact with Nalco Corexit, also corrosive to boat hulls.
The EPA just rolled over on this one.
Who got paid off? Air Force Reserve C-130 Hercules sprayed Corexit
over land, people and water.
MSDS sheets changed in recent days to avoid liability, although they still say:
ENVIRONMENTAL PRECAUTIONS :
Do not contaminate surface water.
Compare Nalco Sheet now to Wikipedia before:
http://lmrk.org/corexit_9500_uscueg.539287.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corexit
So many innocent forms of life destroyed, and we are just getting started.
I remember when I was stationed in Belle Chasse, LA back from 93-96 and Grand Isle was the bomb for fishing big Bull Red's. You could go fishing anytime of the year in LA and come back with a cooler full of black drum, red's( limit of course), sheepshead, and trout. Man I miss fishing there, but I know this oil has ruined that for a long long time.
Even the newscasters are affected:
http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/watch?v=iVShXDsGD0I 3:35
Just figured I spit a few facts out:
Propylene glycol is not dangerous in itself, its found in everything from eye drops to lotion to hand sanitizer. The trouble with the propylene glycol is it depletes oxygen from the ocean in its degradation process. It's not a toxic chemical. When microbes break down the Propylene glycol they consume a large quantity of oxygen, which then causes fish to die.
Toxic or not, it's not something you want in the ocean.
It's got electrolytes. It's what plants crave.
+1000
Mr jamescfox never gonna hear those black helicopters...
I guess this is a good time to get cheap hotel rates along the gulf and parts of Florida. Now if they can just get rid of those rip-off "resort" fees..
Sometimes I wonder what will happen with hundreds of thousands of people simply abandon their homes in the GoM and move elsewhere.
Obama Administration will surely have a 25% home abandoment tax enforced on those that flee their useless RE on the GoM (Marked to fantasy levels of course).
Yep. Dead zone. Now they are felons. Yay!
Mainstream Environmentalism is part of the racket: Green is the Color of Money:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oInl21livMY
The propylene glycol is to de-ice the plane...er, skimmer
you know what is really disturbing about this video, not so much the oil as that speaks for itself, but where the hell are all the people who are supposedly cleaning up at? I see no one on these beaches doing anything.
If anyone from BP were around, no doubt they wouldn't be able to record the video.
Shhhhh!!!!!!!! Lebron is going to decide where to play. And did you see what Lindsay wrote on her finger to the judge????
I swear some of you have your priorities out of whack.
With all the mutations that will happen to the sea life, especially after we nuke it, maybe Owebama, BP, and the dense EPA (who sanctioned this) is just helping evolution.
I heard Bosh was saying: "Yeah, I need to make the best decision for myself and my family"
Well living in tar-land is paradise.
Drum roll please. Don't miss that 9 PM special tonight where Lebron makes his choice on prime time.
I heard that being pushed by CNBC and I wondered if this was the latest shark to be jumped. Of course, as I type this I glance up at CNBC and what do you suppose they are pushing?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark
http://www.tvguide.com/jumptheshark/
The most ridiculous wannabe is Bosh, wtf this guy plays for oh-canada's only team and he thinks he's one of WAde and 'bron? Go home and take a nap
REd carpet for Lebron I mean if there's no such thing as tossing a inflated rubber sphere into an iron ring then this guy is probably pumping gas into my civic down the ghetto
On an economics related note, Mr. James is apparently being sued by a man claiming that he is Mr. James' biological father and wanting to assert paternity rights.
His name is Leicester Bryce Stovell and he's "a graduate of Princeton University and the University of Chicago law school. He works as a senior legal adviser for the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission."
http://www.comcast.net/articles/sports-nba/20100708/LeBron-Paternity-Claim/
Good luck to Wade and Bosh!!!
In the unlikely - but possible - even LJ come to Miami just who gets to score 30+ per game average over the season?!
Rebounding and assists (well Wade and LJ have done these)
It could be an interesting experiment.
I might not want to be Spoelstra though.
Pete
LBJ could go kiss Kobe's a$$
Prediction on LBJ's speech: "Florida's great place to grow my family ... beautiful beaches, fresh air, plenty of seafood , ... best city to play for ... I want the best for my family [which mean breathing 4000ppb of benzene]..."
fuck tart
Isn't Lebron in the middle of a divorce?
ptoemmes, check gen discussion on message boards if you want to meet a fellow ZH'er in sofla.
And where are The Sierra Club, Greenpeace, and all of the other Communist, tree hugging fucking hypocrites? Oh, I forgot. They're busy blaming George Bush and Herbert Hoover for all of the problems in the world. These Marxist dipshits have zero credibility. Please let them know that at every possible opportunity.
+100000, they are just like the phony anti-war movement, With a D(or make that a lower case d) in the white house; they just go back to lighting their bongs and making ty dye shirts.
+++++++ Kaiser, those commies really care less about the environment or helpless people they screw. It is all about feeling good and taking on the man. Bunch of cowards they are when a real test appears. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Theirs is short and sweet.
The Sierra Club is too busy "planting flags" on the Mall in DC and building web sites like http://letsmovebeyondoil.org/ to do anything of substance.
They are too busy taking money from BP, GS and various NGO's. For them, the gulf oil volcano is only to be used to bring in Cap & Trade, aka Tax and Scam, so that they have a permanent government tit to suckle. They are loathsome beyond words to describe.
Actually they figured out the system long before the bankers did.
He is how they opperate. Fresh out of college with book in hand they get a job with the government. After they rake the average guy over the coals and firmly cut their eye teeth on his guts, they go out and form their own consulting company to tell you how to get around the very rules they wrote! Sound familiar?
18 years and 150K these shits cost us only to finally turn around and offer their services to get us a building permit for a single family home. Read that again.
CVX and FCX funders of Sierra Club and Director Mrs Paul Ehrlich:
http://www.counterpunch.org/ehrlich.html
Why? Why the need to pump millions of gallons of poison into the Gulf of Mexico? If you don't pump dispersant then you get thick coating of oil on the surface of the water. That then coats birds & wetlands when it impacts the shoreline (which results in horrific TV pictures......). The only way to minimize the impact without dispersants is to use lots of booms, barriers and massive skimmers. Too bad no one has any of that.......too bad BP refused to use them.......
OH WAIT - they wanted to..................
http://www.financialpost.com/Avertible+catastrophe/3203808/story.html#ix...
Can't wait until these guys run my healthcare and tell me what kind of auto I'm allowed to drive....................
There is a local company in North Carolina in negotiations with clean up contractors to supply microbial solutions to the current problem in the Gulf. Claimed their brew of microbes would work much faster than microbes used in Exxon Valdez disaster.
All about temperature...
Several days ago I asked why the EPA wasn't publically posting daily air and water quality sample readings? They are selectedly reporting some air quality readings on their web site but this info confirms there are many toxicity readings they are not reporting to the public. Also is the Govt or BP aware of other leaks miles away from the BOP ? Why hasn't the Govt answered that question? Matt Simmons reported months ago that erosion channels have been cut outside the casing from the high pressure reservior to the seabed and the Thomas Jefferson measured high levels of benezene and other toxic fumes miles away from the blowout well.
No one is aware of other leaks miles away from the BOP because they don't exist. That's why the gov't hasn't answered that question. Matt Simmons was making it up - everything he said he made up. There are no erosion channels.
THERE are a LOT of very bad things happening - making shit up does not help understand the things that do matter.
This is news?
Fuck I read this shit on WRH and Rense weeks ago.
the indonesian citizen obama and the beelzebub of bp are criminals who should be charged, prosecuted, and jailed for crimes against humanities....their lies and evils are inexecusable...these scum have no right to govern anyone.....
www.obamacrimes.com
fuck you obama and bp!!
Our government: The only way to fight off massive debt is with more debt. The only way to fight off the poison seeping up from the ocean is with more poison. The only way to fight crime is to criminalize more behavior.
At least they are consistent.
To TD and the rest of ZH, thank you for all you do.
Tyler, why are you calling it a "Gulf Spill" instead of "Gulf Diaster"???? The word "spill" is a misnomer and understates the serious nature of the problem as well as the liability.
Otherwise, GREAT job and tremendous public service.
It is time everybody who's not suicidal IMMEDIATELY evacuate the Gulf region. It will be too late if people wait for the government to make an announcement or do pretty much anything. I won't be surprised if they deliberately keep quiet and let people die due to all the toxic chemicals that are 100% guaranteed to invade the land ecosystem as well [of the Gulf area] via toxin laced rainfall, contaminated food supplies, etc. It won't be the first time. They already did that to 9/11 cleanup workers.
Learn to think for yourself and know that the US government is your biggest enemy.
GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE.
Gordon_Gekko
Couple of things.
First how far inland would require evacuation? How far will the storms carry contaminated water?
Second, will those crackers and blue hairs become the new Okies?
BPies...pronounced 'bee-pees'
Well, personally I would stay at least 200 miles away from the Gulf coast - for the next 100 years.
Gordo, I hate these bastards soooo bad. No one is reactive enough. Everyone is complying and obeying and I am just going nuts with this shit. Thanks for keeping it real. I have warned my Florida peeps and I am doing my best to try to be ready for them. Not much time for ZH any more. Too much to do.
Fuck rationality. Rationality is going to kill us. They are criminals, they are banking on us to be "reasonable" and to not want to abandon all those prior investments that we cling to. While they pollute, they Loot. There is no point that these people stop their bullshit, stop thieving, and start trying to heal the situation. All I see is everyone working the angle.
I am not a capital punishment person, but I am getting there. There really are some crimes against life on this finite rock we share that should be made punishable by death.
Tough choices. The rock and hard place are not stationary. I hope the best for you. We need people like you to make it to the other side of this.
fuckNa +++++
History may well say that the dispersants were the bigger problem and resulted in many more deaths than just the oil alone would have.
From Wikipedia in 10 seconds:
"The acute oral toxicity of propylene glycol is very low, and large quantities are required to cause perceptible health damage in humans..................It would be nearly impossible to reach toxic levels by consuming foods or supplements, which contain at most 1 g/kg of PG. Cases of propylene glycol poisoning are usually related to either inappropriate intravenous administration or accidental ingestion of large quantities by children.[12] The potential for long-term oral toxicity is also low. In one study, rats were provided with feed containing as much as 5% PG in feed over a period of 104 weeks and they showed no apparent ill effects.[13] Because of its low chronic oral toxicity, propylene glycol was classified by the U. S. Food and Drug Administration as "generally recognized as safe" (GRAS) for use as a direct food additive..............................................Propylene glycol does not cause sensitization and it shows no evidence of being a carcinogen or of being genotoxic"
So likely the need to evacuate the Gulf is a liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitttttttttttttle premature.
What the concern is "Propylene glycol is known to exert high levels of biochemical oxygen demand (BOD) during degradation in surface waters. This process can adversely affect aquatic life by consuming oxygen aquatic organisms need to survive. Large quantities of dissolved oxygen (DO) in the water column are consumed when microbial populations decompose ethylene glycol."
I've been saying for weeks that the real issue is dead zones. But we've gotta scream about methane in the atmosphere or tsunamis or the eeeeeeeeeevvvvvvvvvvvvvviiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiillllllllllllllllll corporation trying to minimize it's liability.
Now read this gm:
Corexit is banned in BP's domicile Britain.
Corexit 9527, considered by the EPA to be an acute health hazard, is stated by its manufacturer to be potentially harmful to red blood cells, the kidneys and the liver, and may irritate eyes and skin.[22][13] The chemical 2-butoxyethanol, found in Corexit 9527, was identified as having caused lasting health problems in workers involved in the cleanup of the Exxon Valdez oil spill.[23] According to the Alaska Community Action on Toxics, the use of Corexit during the Exxon Valdez oil spill caused people "respiratory, nervous system, liver, kidney and blood disorders".[15] Like 9527, 9500 can cause hemolysis (rupture of blood cells) and may also cause internal bleeding.[4]
According to the EPA, Corexit is more toxic than dispersants made by several competitors and less effective in handling southern Louisiana crude.[24] On May 20, 2010, the EPA ordered BP to look for less toxic alternatives to Corexit, and later ordered BP to stop spraying dispersants, but BP responded that it thought that Corexit was the best alternative and continued to spray it.[3]
Reportedly Corexit may be toxic to marine life and helps keep spilled oil submerged. There is concern that the quantities used in the Gulf will create 'unprecedented underwater damage to organisms.'[25] Nalco spokesman Charlie Pajor said that oil mixed with Corexit is "more toxic to marine life, but less toxic to life along the shore and animals at the surface" because the dispersant allows the oil to stay submerged below the surface of the water.[26] Corexit 9500 causes oil to form into small droplets in the water; fish may be harmed when they eat these droplets.[4] According to its Material safety data sheet, Corexit may also bioaccumulate, remaining in the flesh and building up over time.[27] Thus predators who eat smaller fish with the toxin in their systems may end up with much higher levels in their flesh.[4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corexit
GG, what are you doing here? This isn't a gold thread.
Propylene glycol is not toxic.
It's found in most processed foods and is used in solar thermal systems as anti-freeze, in case a heat exchanger leaks into your hot water tank. It's in soaps, shampoos, detergents, snack foods, syrups, lotions, and tons of stuff that either goes through us and into the sewer or directly into the sewer as we use it.
What were the concentrations of propylene glycol in the Gulf before the oil volcano started?
There are plenty of things to worry about - but there's more of this stuff percentage-wise in that Zinger or Hostess cake you just ate than in 1,000,000 gallons of Gulf water...
Would you be kind enough to do a demo and drink it on youtube for all of us to see?
Certainly.
From Wikipedia:
Propylene glycol is used:
* As a solvent in many pharmaceuticals, including oral, injectable and topical formulations. Notably, diazepam, which is insoluble in water, uses propylene glycol as its solvent in its clinical, injectable form.[5]
* As a humectant food additive, labeled as E number E1520
* As an emulsification agent in Angostura and orange bitters
* As a moisturizer in medicines, cosmetics, food, toothpaste, mouth wash, hair care and tobacco products
* As a carrier in fragrance oils
* As an ingredient in massage oils
* In hand sanitizers, antibacterial lotions, and saline solutions...
This is probably why there's so much of it showing up in Gulf water tests, folks - it's flushed into the Mississippi by the metric ton every hour!
Ethylene glycol, which is automotive anti freeze, will "kill your dog if it drips on the driveway," and methanol will blind and kill you if you drink it instead of Gray Goose, which is ethanol.
Thorny Xi
It's toxic when it drips on the driveway and the family pets slurps it up.
No, it isn't. You're thinking of ethylene glycol, automotive anti-freeze, not propylene glycol. HUGE difference.
Also a popular OTC laxative. Very slippery!
Putting risk into perspective: another thing we're not very good at as a society. In a way this site is all about that....
(Personally I am way more upset about the oil than the Corexit but I am not a biological scientist, merely a rationally thinking human. I do think the Corexit is essentially just for PR value. On the other hand, the dispersant ops ROVs consistently give the best video of the wellhead, so maybe that's a benefit.)
Ok, so drink a cup of anti-freeze and see what happens dude. In the deep south, that used to be one of the old school tricks to kill wild dogs and stuff, soak a piece of meat in anti-freeze and let the dog eat it, and I guarantee his guts will explode inside out. Nah, its not toxic though.
"Anti-freeze" is not all the same.
Brush your teeth today? You ingested propylene glycol. Yes, it works as anti-freeze - lots of non-toxic stuff does. Salt, for example, and sugar, and alcohol. Alcohol - ethanol, good old booze - is a great anti-freeze. It was used in the "weeping wing" de-ice systems on DC-3 aircraft back in the 1930's. Too much ethanol alcohol will kill you. A tine bit of methanol will accomplish the same thing. Propylene glycol at 25 PPM won't kill fish, folks. This article is poorly researched. As I asked previously, what was the concentration of propylene glycol in the Gulf before this incident? What is the concentration of it in the Mississippi River in northern Louisiana? I'm not pro-Corexit - but this was sensational bullsh!t writing.
Propylene glycol is not toxic.
It's found in most processed foods and is used in solar thermal systems as anti-freeze,
Did you not just write this above? I'm just making a point out of what you wrote above.
Just about every substance is toxic. It's the dosage that matters. Oxygen can kill you at concentrated levels.
The question isn't whether p-glyc is not toxic, the question is at what dosage does it become toxic?
+100000000000000000
Real scientific thinking
Wrong chemical.
30-60% of Corexit is carcinogenic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2-butoxyethanol
Thanks Tyler for posting this one. Now I need a shower.
iLivedINhaitiOnce
Fleshlight?
propylene glycol -
We switched from ethylene glycol to propylene in air preheaters in power plants several years ago . Supposed to be much safer environmentally.
Check MSDS yourselves
http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Propylene_glycol-9927239
Ecotoxicity:
Ecotoxicity in water (LC50): >5000 mg/l 24 hours [Goldfish]. >10000 mg/l 48 hours [guppy]. >10000 mg/l 48 hours [water flea].
BOD5 and COD: Not available.
What better way to strike a blow at ol' Johnny Reb than to destroy his favorite playground for generations.....
I don't think so, could you point us to a reference?
Ah, Wikipedia. You will undoubtedly be revered as a diety one day...In Your Body, OK, In The Gulf, Bad....like 2,500 times as bad as raw sewage. But you can eat it all day! The propylene glycol, I mean...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propylene_glycol
"Propylene glycol is known to exert high levels of biochemical oxygen demand (BOD) during degradation in surface waters. This process can adversely affect aquatic life by consuming oxygen aquatic organisms need to survive. Large quantities of dissolved oxygen (DO) in the water column are consumed when microbial populations decompose ethylene glycol.
The oxygen depletion potential of airport deicing operation discharges is many times greater than that of raw sewage. For example, before application, Type I propylene glycol-based deicing fluid is generally diluted to a mixture containing approximately 50% propylene glycol. Pure propylene glycol has a five-day biochemical oxygen demand (BOD5) concentration of approximately 1,000,000 mg/L. A typical diluted propylene-based deicing fluid could therefore have a BOD5 concentration of approximately 500,000 mg/L. In comparison, raw sewage typically has a BOD5 concentration of approximately 200 mg/L. The amount of fluid used to deice a single jet depends on the nature of the precipitation event and the size of the aircraft but can range from a couple hundred to several thousand gallons. Therefore, deicing a single jet can generate a BOD5 load greater than that of one million gallons of raw sewage."
Did you read it? It's worse than sewage at taking oxygen out of surface waters. Not as a poison.
Just when I was starting to like you you have to act like a maroon. Read what I said, and try again. I trusted that a non-maroon reader would associate the substance of the Wikipedia post, which is about BOD impacts, with the term 'bad'.
Maroon. And since you seem pedantic: 'Maroon' is an Interweb variant for MORON. Clear?
Extra credit: Specify a correct term for a chemical compound that kills aquatic life by oxygen deprivation in solution. Make sure your term differentiates from, for example, curare, which kills animal organisms by paralysis, making breathing impossible. Hint: a pile of sand can also kill an animal by suffocation but that's not commonly referred to as 'poisoning'.
Jim;
Let's try to have a conversation with a hint of logic. Propylene glycol is safe as a food additive. In order for it to poison you, you have to drink A LOT very quickly. It also removes oxygen from the water column when bacteria break it down (as do oil and natural gas). This is a significant problem. However your paste from Wickipedia references the potential for oxygen deprivation and compares it to the potential for oxygen removal due to sewage. Your post seemed to be making a connection between that "sewage" reference and a post describing the effects of ingesting - there is no connection.
Ad hominem attacks do not improve the discussion - they only communicate information about the lack of real arguments available to the attacker.
You can show disrespect in ad hominem or any other fashion and it tends to blow back at this site. If you mean to agree with my original post then by all means, go ahead.
I don't know what the heck the original post's reference to toxicity was supposed to mean either FWIW. I am just trying to figure it out...like all the rest of us maroons on the bus.
Now 'scuse me while I correct some math down a little further, then go find my babies.
30-60% of Corexit is carcinogenic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2-butoxyethanol
Oxygen depletion ? Don't worry about the glycol , the methane released by the Horizon oxidizes faster than the glycol and is already creating dead zones . Corexit was used so BP could make a profit off the stuff they manufacture - re: Nalco , re: owned subsidiary of BP - duh ?
5000 mg/l kills a goldfish = 200 ppm 24 hr exposure
10000 mg/l kills a guppy = 100 ppm 48 hr exposure
10000 mg/l kills a water flea = 100 ppm 48 hr exposure
Pondmaster, with all due respect, there are one million mg in a liter, therefore 10,000 mg/l = 10,000 ppm, not 100.
You seem to have picked this info up from natural foods/products websites, which is cool, but hardly a neutral source as they are trying to frighten people into avoiding, say, alcohol-based baby wipes and so forth. As far as I can tell the original source for these toxicity levels was a Dow Chemical study of a waste stream containing about 50% propylene glycol; they found "very low levels of toxicity" so this was supposed to be reassuring....but I guess it's not.
Corexit.
Was "Supposedly" banned from use in the GOM,geyser...but not until millions of gallons had been dispersed.
It's totally banned for use in U.K. waters, so WHY would it be allowed here?.
Oh .. and the O2 depletion happens in surface waters . No research on waters 1 mile deep , where there is little life in the first place .
The gulf disaster is just that - a disaster, and it doesn't need this kind of embellishment.
This vid isn't accurate. First, every sample came from the worst looking patch of sludge, or obviously contained oil globules. OK if you're interested in the oil toxicity, which is most important. But what is the dispersed level - I'm more interested in the places people might try to swim. Most people will avoid sunbathing in a sludge pit.
Second, p-glycol is misrepresented. Sure it's toxic at prolonged and consistent dosages. But, the kinetics are all wrong: exposure by inhalation (ocean spray) as they mentioned is not a significant absorption risk, if at all. Absorption through (intact) skin is not considered a risk unless it is prolonged and consistent and the dosages are high enough. Most poisoning is from ingestion, and doesnt' always end in death.
DAILY ingestion limit is estimated at about 25mg/kg, and like all medicinal regimens, a physician might start you out on a smaller dosage of a medicine containing it, and increase the level under observation even beyond the 25mg, if it helps.
We don't need one more thing to be afraid of. There's enough to fear already, as oil itself is death to the gulf ocean, and to the health and livelihood of the people there.
so sad. my wife and I were actually thinking of relocating to Florida. Guess I'm still stuck in California with high taxes and communist politicians.
From Wikipedia:
The acute oral toxicity of propylene glycol is very low, and large quantities are required to cause perceptible health damage in humans; propylene glycol is metabolized in the human body into pyruvic acid (a normal part of the glucose-metabolism process, readily converted to energy), acetic acid (handled by ethanol-metabolism), lactic acid (a normal acid generally abundant during digestion) [8] , and propionaldehyde [9]
Not too toxic to us humans, anyway. Problem is, BP is dumping non-volatile anti-freeze into the Gulf, while most of the volatile organic chemicals like Benzene are evaporating.
What good does dispersant do, then?
The ONLY reason to use dispersant is to avoid the formation of thick layers at the surface. Those layers cause the most impact on wildlife and the environment. Of course those cohesive layers are more easily removed by the massive skimmers and boom technology available in Europe. The technology that was offered on day 3 and that BP asked to use. That request was refused by the Obama administration. If you are prohibited from using skimmers that can actually remove the oil then dispersants are the next best way to minimize the total environmental affect.
I think skimming off maximal oil is better than dispersing it into the water with toxic chemicals. Is BP so stupid that they think that the absence of large visible oil slicks is more palatable in the short run than the long term poisoning of the entire Gulf? I'm guessing yes. Aesthetics matter. I'm not so much worried about the anti-freeze they're dumping into the Gulf, rather, I'm worried about trying to dissolve that much oil, irretrievably into the water.
I would think you should worry about every living creature that poison will kill. From diatoms to whales. Just how large of a dead zone are we creating. There is plenty to worry about.
It isn't 'stupid' it's craven.
How do they sleep at night?
BP all about PR as their green sun Beyond Petroleum logo suggests...
Reminiscent of Chernobyl
Men should weep.
edit..
Edmon Plume, Thorny Xi and other proponents of drinking/eating/abusing Propylene glycol, Sodium Fluoride, et cetera - take a MTF hike, ok?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corexit
"Corexit is the most-used dispersant in the Deepwater Horizon oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, with COREXIT 9527 having been replaced by COREXIT 9500 after the former was deemed too toxic.
Corexit EC9500A is mainly comprised of hydrotreated light petroleum distillates, propylene glycol and a proprietary organic sulfonate.
UK authorities have an approved list of products which must pass both "sea/beach" and "rocky shore" laboratory toxicity tests, following a review of approval procedures over a decade ago. Corexit did not pass the rocky shore test when submitted for renewal of its inclusion on the list, and was dropped"COREXIT is Eating Through Boats in the Gulf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLvNqlVNMh0
Now - go live by your advice - paste it on your bread and enjoy it. It's good for you and your children and your relatives, and i am glad they will find the best use of it, day and night.
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