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Schumer Speaks, Says China Currency "One Of Causes Of Global Recession"
Looks like this is going to get done.
SCHUMER: CHINA FX'ONE OF THE CAUSES' OF GLOBAL RECESSION
SCHUMER: CHINA CONTINUES TO 'GAME THE SYS' ON CURRENCY
SCHUMER: CHINA FX'HAMPERING'GLOBAL ECONOMIC RECOVERY
SCHUMER: 'GROWING CONSENSUS'ON CAP HILL RE CHINA FX MANIPULATION
SCHUMER: WILL TRY TO ADD CHINA FX BILL TO'MUST PASS' LEG
We are now taking bets what China's re-re-retaliation to this next step will be.
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sum ting wong...
OT
Isn't it a bit more peaceful around here now that the anons can't post? There are still Trolls, but not as many.
Heh, I could get used to being King. :>)
Hey watch that ego. lol
It's Good to be the King.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goJnNGObLRk
Your are King...;-)
"Democratic Senator Schumer, currency bill co-sponsor, says pressure needed because China hasn't quit 'gaming the system'"
oh like the US isn't fiddling with allowing mark to myth or anything!
oh like the US isn't fiddling with allowing mark to myth or anything!
If i may, i think you mean to say that "oh like the US isn't DIDDLING with allowing mark to myth or anything!"
As much as I have to and want to defend this country, Mr. Schumer's shameless accusations and utter nonsense, does not allow me to do so.
Mr. Schumer, you are a coward and you are incapable to discern truth from fiction. Your days as a senator are numbered.
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
A real story;
Back in the fifties, the so called "village idiot" where I grew up, used to walk arround the main square wispering to passers by;
"600* million Chinese. We will all die on this earth."
As a youngster hardly knowing to tie my shoes, I asked my father why this crazy guy was saying and saying the same thing on a daily basis.
My father's answer? "He is not crazy."
The Chinese "save-face" and "national pride" cultural credos will manifest themselves soon.
*(that was the population then.)
Well, i hope the world likes Muslims because they are going to take over Europe first and then....
www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU
Schumer should just shut the fuck up with this kind of bullshit. The main and only cause of this depression is Wall Street and its business plans which were so deeply flawed so that when you read them you can only laugh. Also, if he wants to look in the past, Ronald Reagan, Greenspan and american corporations are also among those who contributed largely to the current state of affairs. Fucking morons, the lot of them. And let us not forget NAFTA, tax cuts for the super rich, corporate tax cuts, FED policy, deregulations, congressional blindness, SEC, CFTC etc etc.
Chucky (D-Wall Street) wouldn't want to step on any toes. China doesn't vote.
They are ready to blame everyone around for their own mistakes to the extent that it's almost laughable (if this wasn't so sad in the end):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PQrz8F0dBI
SSSOOOOOOOOO fuckin right!!
I'm sure the Chinese also appreciated all of the Fannie/Freddie and other CMBS/RMBS shit we sold them over the years too. Not to mention our Treasury debt.....
Tell us how you really feel, CB!
Damn straight--could bullshit possibly smell any stronger than this?
I once evicted a wearysome tenant. Appears to me that we be rentin' from the Chinese. Best just say thanks for the loan and go about our business.
Our respected, trusted and honorable representatives in DC are dangerous to World Health.
Spot on CB, for me the pain started with reagan and dereg,
or at least that is when I started noticing the work environment change due to consolidations caused by dereg...
But from Reagan on, almost always working for a company that was being sold and absorbed . No job stability whatsoever....
If I were China I would sell all my US assets and tell them to get stuffed...the world doesn't need the US any more because it is broke
And the first one to sell gets the best price.
Be afraid. Be VERY afraid.
One possible retaliation would be massive sales of US Treasuries. And that's just the first idea I could think of.
Consider this for a second: China inflates its economy, does not need the US market as badly as a few years ago. Selling tons of US bonds would be the perfect way to cut down the US to size.
China selling UST's will certainly appreciate the CHY. China and US corporations lose, the rest of the world wins.
In my opinion, China should zip their traps and loosen up a little with their arrogance. History proves clearly how much damage the pathological US banking industry can reap on the rest of the world. China is NOT too big, in fact it's probably seen by these maniacs as the ultimate pounding opportunity.
Yes, those geniuses on Capitol Hill and Wall Street have this all figured out...wait, what?
The arrogance I see is that we can disregard every rule of law and mark everything to fantasy but preach to China, a non-democratic mercantilist state. They never pretended to be anything but what they are, and we were more than happy to send them paper in exchange for their stuff made by slave labor. Now we want new rules? Feel self-righteous?
China will tell us to drop dead.
Well actually they're pretending to be capitalists and doing a great theatrical job at it. China owes their success to US corporations. That's why I call them arrogant and why I say US corp. are the big loses if China decide to dump UST's (unlikely even though it appears so).
PS. That paper we send them is actaully worth something. Everyone in the world agrees on that.
If and when the Chinese start sending that paper back, its worth might go down. Do we really know that they're not ready to close the gates and start consuming their own stuff?
I'm pretty sure the US is not, although the deluge of artificially cheap goods has got to stop sooner or later.
Also, I would argue they may actually be doing a better job at being capitalists than the US is, at this point. Sure, they are centrally controlled and that is a fatal flaw, but the US is getting there really fast. They are arguably using better policies than we are - again I'm not saying central planning is good or desirable, it's just that we might be doing a worse job at it than they are.
The Chinese authorities summarily execute their fraudsters. You gotta respect that.
Let them close their gates. The worst thing that will happen is that we'll have to make stuff in America again.
I mean really, fuck em. I say accelerate the mess before it consumes our country in the longer term. Now it will be painful, but what if we allow it to continue.
Meanwhile, if we cut off the biggest market for their goods, what will they do? Let's see how great their country is without us. Even if they do fine, great! It'll still be better for us too!
And if we actually made stuff here and made profits here, think of all the extra revenue for citizens AND the government. We wouldn't need them to buy our treasuries.
So really, fuck China. Let's get back to making goods in America and stop giving communist human rights violators our money!
I totally agree that depegging the yuan is necessary and ultimately will benefit everyone, but I don't think the best way to accomplish that is through further trade protectionism.
I do think the boom-bust cycle that the Fed creates, has given China a big boost, and they took advantage of it. IMO that's our own fault (or rather, the inherent fault of the Fed's monetary policy). Without this bubble economy and debt as far as the eye can see, of our own creation, we'd have a much more level playing field. But, politically much easier to blame China.
China owes very little to US corporations. In fact, they have done a bang-up job of keeping them out by confiscating half of their profits (while Chinese companies are not taxed within their free market zones around the major cities).
The paper we send them is worth only what we make in this country. Currently, all we make is military hardware, which is being used to secure access to mid-east oil. That will end as soon as the destabilizing effects of US intervention make us not worth the effort to the Arabs. Once they no longer have need of our military, it's game over, though game over could come in other ways as well.
Great job keeping them out. Check where just about everything with an American name is made. And no the USD is not totally based on what the US produces, but instead how much it is needed...and that is why it must remain the reserve currency and used to purchase oil. If not, then I'm with ya.
So the Arabs ask us politely to leave and close the door on the way out.
We of course thank them for their hospitality and REGIME CHANGE THEIR ASS.
They can't sell them.
They already sterilized the FX domestically.
Second is that they already apparently tried this. The EU will not sell them euros and the Ahabs on the petrodollar will not sell them oil.
Dude, they sell them officially then buys them back as direct bidders.
They don't even need to sell. They have a good portion of their holdings short-term, just let them expire and redeem at par. That will do the trick.
China one of the causes of the recession.... that is the biggest joke of the last million years
Turn around and look in the mirror you stupid fools
and here is another stupid comment from another deluded fool..
"UK's Brown says he will not put UK economic recovery at risk"
from the very man that said before the biggest bust...
"an end to boom and bust"
Empty cannons of rhetoric.
I get the feeling that very soon you will see a breach in the USD/Gold correlation because of this. Yes, for now USD down/Gold up but should this rhetoric escalate, we're done.
China wasn't the prob, FED and the globalists like Shumer himself are,
Have u heard anything about hillary putting up US land as collateral for treas held by china??
GOLD BITCHES
History is eminently clear that increased protectionism is just one of the items that plays out in depressions such as the one we are in. I define depression as a "major" bank crises, which we have. throw in sovereign credit issues, consumer debt issues at historical highs and nasty unemployment and history shows us that this shit does not get resolved positively for at least 4 years. the one we are currently in will take longer in my view solely due to how the bank crises resolution is proceeding, which is "not at all."
Much longer to resolve and much sooner to breakdown.
Protectionism???
JFC don't you people follow history?
Mercantilist policies CAUSE THE IMBALANCES.
This type of shit, depreciating your own currency, was tantamount to an Act of War in the old days, for crying out loud. Yes, nations DID go to war over the shit China has done for the past 20 years.
Protectionist mercantilism is how the US grew so rapidly from the mid 1800s onward.
I've got news, CHINA is protectionist - the yuan peg is DIRECTLY PROTECTIONIST of their local industrial economy!
The Smoot Hawley stuff merely helps PURGE what is OVERPRODUCTION supported by trade imbalances. Yes, it is painful, but neither we or they can continue a one-sided trade picture.
IMO the yuan peg is helping to prop up the US economy, and their dollar accumulation has simply delayed the effects of inflation. I think it's terrible that this has happened, but I also think it's what the US government (aka the Fed) wanted. China subsidized our bubble.
The effects of this would be much smaller if if the US were more competitive with China and less reliant on their manufacturing and production. It has less to do with their low labor costs (as there are plenty of other countries with low labor cost) and more to do with the differential between our countries' business regulations and taxes. I think you have a choice when address that difference - either add more regulations, taxes, and tariffs to the ones that push against China; or subtract from the (self-imposed) ones that push against the US.
I guess you're a big believer in ether theory as well?
Mercantilism went the way of the dodo long ago. All economists (yes, I mean ALL, even the Keynesians) know that it doesn't work, and that policies which attempt to maximize intake of gold at all costs don't really help domestic economies nearly as much as just letting the market work.
What has caused the imbalance is US policies that drive our manufacturing base into the ground. Taxes on incomes, taxes on profits, and regulations are what has pushed productive capital out of the US and into China, NOT a weak Yuan. If all it took was a weak currency, then all currencies around the world would be hyperinflating at all times!
The US DID NOT grow because of protectionist policies, it grew IN SPITE OF THEM, because we had the freest domestic markets in the world. Since our markets have become dramatically less free, we have lost our spot on top. It's going to be hell getting back, when faced with 100 years accumulation of idiotic regulations and bureaucratic bloat.
Agreed! Why should we allow them to be protectionist, and not protect ourselves!
Maybe we wouldn't have huge trade deficits if they didn't bootleg our intellectual property in the first place.
Is it an accident you can buy every movie that an actor has ever made for 80 cents?
How about copies of Windows going for 3 bucks?
They cry all this bullshit about "free trade" but don't pay us for our intellectual property and neglect our copyrights.
As far as "needing them" we can just as easily make stuff in America. It might cost us more, but we'll get paid more for it too. Problem solved.
Schumer is retarded, pure and simple. This is the same guy who is proposing a "workers card" WTF is that really for Chuck?
China's re-re-retaliation?
Nothing much but probably more laughter from Chinese students.
I say we beat em down. Our students can easily take their students.
I've crapped turds bigger than a Chinese student! LOL
i don't think people realize how bearish this all is....total CNBS bulls sucked in hook, line, sinker
It's more like their re-re-re-re-re-retaliation at this point.
I think this will eventually end with China attaching a huge bundle of stuff we used to manufacture ourselves to a massive fishing pole and teasing us with it from across the Pacific.
Sorry Crummy, we can't pay for it any way. And why would they want anymore of our pieces of paper. They can manufacture that themselves.
Look for China to make on IP claim on paper money itself.
Ha ha! Dat funny.
Who doesn't get the joke?
Man your battle stations!
China's re-re-retaliation:
Tell the truth about the whole fucking Ponzi scam regarding exactly who the indirect buyers really are for US Treasuries (cause it sure ain't China any more).
"Re sooo solly. Tey treaten to bro up dollah if we no buy and sell back to Fed at back door. Re say 're no primary dearer, we no can do.' Re brackmail victim. Hep us re so scaed of impiriarist USA rit te big bombs."
I own that was racist and stupid. Flame me bitches. I am tired of them all, dem/rep, USA/China. Fuck them all in all their little orifices (really, that was a Chinese way to say offices, honest).
I don't know if I'm laughing with you or at you...just that I'm laughing.
Be careful with that Chrysler building...
Flame you? Re no can do! So solly!
Schumer should be in jail for his interference with the SEC regarding Madoff.
Is our Congress and Administration nuts? Do they really think China is going to bow to their currency manipulation crap? We are running an enormous deficit, have unfunded liabilities out the ying-yang, runaway entitlements, printing money to no end, Fed manipulation in the bond market, and we are calling them manipulators.
Oh... and I forgot the Mark to Myth that the FASB idiots that have allowed and the bloated banks that the FDIC is blessing... I could go on.... but why?
Martin Jacques, for those of you who don't know about him is a renowned critical thinker and sociologist of the highest order, said something which i personally think describes the current time. He states that the recent tribulation in the World Order is nothing more than a historical manifestation of the transition of American society and consequently its values, dynamics [internally as well as externally]. Also, while the arms conflict is reduced to third tier countries a la Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan the conflicts between economic rulers are denoted in trade and currency wars. What is significant for this period is that a new world superpower will be introduced and it will not be by means of military conquest or ownership of the resources, but adaptability to external developments. The power of a nation to transform internally in face of external uncontrollable manifestations will determine the new ruler of the World. And it will not be America. Also, Martin subscribes to China the cohesive cultural heritage and vast history which yields experience when it comes to external developments the like of the ones we are seeing for the past 3 years. So, fear not people, the world will not end, it will only have a new ruler. And they will not speak English.
And they will not speak English.
Actually, they do...and very well. Did you hear the questions asked of Obama by locals during his trip to China? I don't know anyone here who could ask questions so fluently of Chinese officials visiting America.
But I understand Mandarin is now a hot topic for students young and old.
Yes there will be a new ruler and keeping with tradition, they WILL speak english
#265045
It's all making sense now.
Still fighting the last war I see.
The world will not end -- true enough -- but it will break into 1,000 pieces with very jagged edges. We will find ourselves happily isolated and ignorant of anything past the sharp edges of our random fragment.
There will be 1,000 "world leaders" raining murder and tyranny on their hapless subjects, but there there will be no actual World Leader. At least not for 200 years. And possibly never.
In about 400 years from now the Middle Ages will have finally ended and human civilization will have finally emerged whole, healed and complete after the previous 10,000 years of trial and error.
The sooner it burns, the better. Only then does the actual work begin.
I take it by the smile on your face that you're not seriously contending the totalitarian government of China would allow their people to transform internally to some other form of society that would allow them to become the leaders of the world.
These are the folks who employ slave labor, murder dissidents and support the dregs of the world's repressive regimes. These are the folks, and the culture that values theft of intellectual property, pissing on the rule of law and ensuring that tens of millions of the males entering adulthood will never have a mate.
Flexible or adaptive aren'tadjectives I'd use to describe the Chinese culture, Mr. Bastard. It's chic to bash America and western culture, but we'll be around a lot longer than you assume, and doing much better than the Chinese dream of. They thought they could vault to the top of the heap in one or two generations. There's a good chance we're about to witness them falling back into the basement of history because of their own mistakes.
China has been around for nearly 4000 years as a civilization. And in those 4000 years 3500 years its culture and belief system is a static non-changeable societal paradigm. America has been around for 80 years as a global player. Think about that. China emerged as a top nation 6 times in that time frame. Western dominance is an anomaly when you observe history, and only a fool would think that the history ended with the advance in weaponry, computer and transportation. Again China is a cohesive civilization with a set of societal principles. I am not saying that the Maoist years have not changed them, they have; but as you can see it re-emerging once again as a major, maybe even top, global player. They have something the west does not. A static cultural heritage and static belief system. They know what they are doing. Again, things are not black or white as you and many others try to picture them. Capitalism is a historical anomaly as is everything that has happened in the 20th century and it is a repetitive anomaly since similar changes have been on the scene before, mainly in Mediterranean Europe and the Middle East. They didn't last very long, and neither will this.
"They know what they are doing." That, my friend, is where we part company. They don't. Their recent behavior over the past 100 years demonstrates this.
If they knew what they were doing, they would never have accumulated $2 trillion dollars. They would never have instituted a "one-child" policy. They're dancing on hot coals hoping no one notices their pain; hoping everyone mistakes their flailing around for a new dance number. The are in this pain because they ripped off capitalism just like they ripped off everything else they could get their hands on. Their model of capitalism is as crappy as any other faux product copy they produce. They just haven't been bright enough to understand this.
Capitalism is not so much as "anomaly" as it is a break-through in social, cultural development. "The "anomaly" school comes from anti-Western, Marxist thought. Marxists are jealous they were not the breakthrough and spend most of their time bashing the winner. That's a tiresome pursuit. I won't waste my time defending against them.
We struggle with the side effects of that breakthrough, and probably shall for the next thousand years, but the world is headed our way, not China's. They are an anachronism in the era of the Internet, micro-economies/micro-markets and respect for human rights.
I have lost all respect for you after this
The Internet wont feed you, your kids, wont put gas into your car, wont cure you or provide medication, wont manufacture clothes for you, wont manufacture cars, HDTVs, computers or construct your home.
The rest of your post is pretty much laughable as it is, so i will not write a response to it. Just keep drinking that kool-aid buddy.
Also, if you really believe the shit you wrote, and not just that, but in spite of all the evidence, metrics etc etc you keep denying the fact that capitalism is a democracy wraped in oligarchical clothes you should a) read a book, any book without pretty pictures in it b) get a fucking brain and wake the fuck up from your dogmatic slumber [sic]
The artificial supremacy of capitalism which you equate with historical exceptionality of the West and preaching its advantages and denote Marxism to "jealousy" is a thinking process which a 5 year old would be ashame of.
But Im not here to teach you or impose on you those silly things called "facts".
Nothing is headed anyone's way. It is all going down the toilet. It is just a race to see who gets to go through the drain last.
No one sits this one out and stays dry and fecal matter free. No one. Not even the elite.
To suggest that China’s belief system is non changeable is a world-class mistake. There has never been a more dramatic change in the culture of any ethnic population than that wrought by the sweeping curtain drawn by Mao over the land of infinite promise, a land now subjected to the slavery of totalitarianism and tyrannical central government--Communism, now called a blasphemous form of “capitalism.”
Paladin has it exactly right in one of the most dynamic explanations of America’s potential that I have ever read. There is, in 2010, the illuminating difference between the two cultures, China and the U.S.: 1) a people chained to the control of a very small special interest tyrannical group, and 2), the other, unchained to the potential of man’s growth on this planet, freedom!
For a good understanding of China's culture and history, I would recommend <<The Confucian Mind>>, available on Amazon.
i bet their farmers feel as manipulated and abused by the government as ours do. I dont feel free. Obligations taxes fees ,insurances and more . I was more free living under bridges of my own choosing. There is little freedom to be had.
Its all relative.
I agree with you here, though the "side effects" could turn out to be permanent changes for the worse, instead of temporary pain on the path to greatness, if Americans lose the will to stand up for themselves.
It is not a situation of China raising its civilization and catching up with the West, rather it is the West falling precipitously to reach the bottom where China has been sitting.
"Flexible or adaptive aren't adjectives I'd use to describe the Chinese culture, Mr. Bastard."
sorry to butt in, but have you ever been to china? they put the west to shame with flexibility and adaptability to external conditions. sure their gov't isn't so much, but name me one gov't that is?
equating the chinese people with their gov't is like equating the citizens of the old soviet empire with theirs. or americans with theirs.
so are you arrogant & corrupt by chance?
Yep.
cheers for admitting that you're talking your book.
we all get the government we deserve i guess.
hope you got your corporate tax filing in on time yesterday.
timmy's waiting anxiously.
Dems know no hard (real) economics. Replubs have no decent domestic policy. Both have horrible foreign policy; ascribing infinite war spending. THIRD PARTY!
We might need to go through a period of rank anarchy first before things are loosened up enough for anything like new politics.
Got your game on?
Ron Paul 2012! Free the weed, free the people!
He is only an R because he knows Ls have no chance at winning. Doesn't make him less L though.
Another sleazy politician, just a bag boy for the big boys on wall street.
Let's blame the Chinese and deflect it away from the real culprits in Washington DC.
the finger pointing will reach epic levels soon.
... and then they roll out the guillotines.
What's the use of history if you can't re-enact it every few hundred years?
I know how we can solve the world's problems....ZOMBIE INFECTION YEAH!!
.... brrrraainnnzzzz ...
Virus / infection zombies (28 days later, resident evil, the crazies) are much more realistic than undead zombies. More scary as well since some day some scientist might just cook up some nasty zombie juice.
Plus Romero does point out the mindless nature of our consumer & military economic model.
Schumer is the window of the mob; the mouthpiece. So whatever he says, that’s what the Fed wants him to say. He’s never, ever, going to say something the rulers don't like.
If I were China I would redeploy all reserves into gold, driving the price higher, and then announce that I'm re-valuing the RMB so that it is redeemable in gold.
It's possible, I've heard others say that too. Also, maybe a more distant possibility, is the RMB becoming a new world reserve currency. Actually if they did the first thing, I bet the likelihood of the second one happening gets bumped up a few notches.
I'm not attacking you guy's but that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard (over and over again). There is simply not enough gold or Yuan in the world and besides, why would any nation with the burden of issuing the reserve currency want to limit themselves with gold. It simply does not work that way in the world we live in.
"There is simply not enough gold"
Whoever said that? There's more than enough for everybody AT THE RIGHT PRICE.
OK so how would you deal with economic expansion? And I'm talking globally. Find more gold? How about when you're attcked and need instant liquidity? Maybe devalue the currency pegged against it? Yes this will most likely happen as history has shown us many times over.
Gold becomes more valuable, dummy. Only idiots are afraid of having more purchasing power. Unfortunately, we live in a world ruled by idiots.
You'll never be attacked if you have nukes and delivery capability. You will also never be attacked if you require all of your citizens to be members of the militia and keep their rifles at home, as the Swiss do. You'll never be attacked economically if you refrain from interfering in the markets, which will allow productivity to soar, bringing in gold rather than having it leave.
The "flexibility" of fiat money is like the "flexibility" of having the key to your neighbors house and going in and robbing them blind whenever you "need" to.
We're talking about a "reserve" currency backed by gold that remains pegged. Unpegging it, debasing the currency etc breaks the rules set above. Any nation can do that and every nation has and that's why history tells us IT DOESN"T WORK.
The rest of your argument sounds like fairytale geopolitics.
remains pegged to what? I'm not sure I'm following you.
The correct term is convertibility but nonetheless, a fixed exchange between gold and the underlying currency it is backing. So since it's officially fixed, then it's fixed. No funny business ala 1944-1971. Very restrictive if you're the issuer of reserve currency.
not restrictive if you separate the store of value function from the unit of transaction.
freegold baby.
we don't consider it a transition element for nothin'
That would INSTANTLY kill the dollar and the United States.
spot on. They are prepared for it by urging their populace to purchase silver and gold. Makes absolute sense. Gonna be a lot of rich Chinese bidding on our country at the estate sale.
BRING IT ON, BABY! HALLELUJAH!
IndyMac/IndyMac/IndyMac/IndyMac/IndyMac
Fortunately, this isn't getting a lot of press in China. Yet.
With the recent Olympics in China, the World Expo this year & the manner in which China recently bitch-slapped the West at the Copenhagen Climate Conference, China, IMO is drawing a line in the sand.
They are saying: "Look world, we are a "Big Dog" now with the potential to become "The Biggest Dog". We are going to assert ourselves as a World power so you'd better treat us with due respect".
I'm not saying I agree with this, but this is what I've seen unfolding.
In China "face" is much more important than folks realize. You push the Chinese into a corner, now, at this particular point in history, and the results will be more than posturing. Causing the Chinese to lose face, now, might cause them to hurt their own self interests "to save face", because the monetary value of saving face is more important than the folks crafting anti-Chinese policy realize.
Go on, stick it to the Chinese! I speak Mandarin, have life long Chinese friends and a Chinese god son. And when history records that pushing China, at this point in time, probably wasn't the best idea.....well, too "F"ing bad.
I heard the Japanese were also a proud and revengful race, along with the Arabs, Soviets, Germans........
Point is, we are just in another period of time where our emotions are clouding our judgements and foresight. This will blow over very soon and hopefully we'll (US) be back on the right path.
Now you are just trolling. Only a Fed head could believe that crap.
Didn't the world shit it's pants over Germany not once but twice leading up to both world wars? Didn't the world take another shit post WWII over the Soviet boogyman? And in the 80's, we all thought Japan was going to slaughter us. Well nothing happened so just take it easy ok man.
'nothing happened'?
many of us trusted and were fooled. We are waking up , each at their own pace.
Then again who knows...
Actually, this tactic works well for the CCP who might be worried about domestic upheaval over the economy. While Shumer is creating an enemy for the American people to rally around, he is also making the US an enemy for the Chinese to rally around. I think they will hold together behind the CCP much better than this country will behind our current government. This is getting interesting.
If it comes down to which country can hold the center together longer, I don't know who wins.
China could spin itself into a nice mass of human sausage under the right conditions. And the US is getting primed for Civil War ver2.0 on many fronts having nothing to do with policy towards China. Hell, most Americans (most) couldn't locate China on a map.
This could go either way. Either way I am so there. Time to end this clusterfuck and I am not in a mood to argue terms.
Yay!!! Fuck China!
*claps*
The US is also playing into China's hand by suggesting that it is Chinese policy that determines the fate of the Recession
Bureaucrats grasping at straws, while Zeroheads grasp gold.
maybe china can ship their recycling brigade over to the U.S. and help us clean up our shitpile, instead of shipping our trash over to them:
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/BUSINESS/03/16/china.recycle.ft/index.html
When Premier Wen Jiabao says "U.S. efforts to boost its exports by weakening the dollar amounted to "a kind of trade protectionism," I think he may be missing the point. The U.S. doesn't want to weaken the dollar, they just want the Chinese to strengthen the yuan.
If the US wants to weaken the dollar a lot more, they need only buy gold and drive the value of the dollar down. That however is not what they want to do, especially since that would really hurt a lot of primary dealers bullion banks massive naked short positions in my opinion.
They just want the best of both worlds. They want a strong yuan to boost exports while keeping the dollar relative strong vs. the basket of currencies while keeping gold flat to down. Unfortunately, the wishes of the Fed, Treasury and Wall Street and the realities of the global economy will not allow both conditions to co-exist as the Chinese will simply maintain a peg regardless of what we do or say. They do however seem to be selling treasuries recently.
Given the fact that the personal savings rates in China is around 35-40% and most Chinese can only invest in their own currency, it would not surprise me to see the dollar appreciate if the Chinese allow the yuan to float - at lest in the short run. Chinese population does not trust government and would like to have the ability to invest in dollars.
It wouldn't surprise me if the US government has an ace up their sleeves. There is a lot of rumours that Goldman has underwritten a ton of off-balance sheet Chinese junk financing. Yes, they could massively off-load US treasuries, but it is likely that Government Sachs has the ability to cause a lot of damage too. With all the CDS Gov. Sachs has, it wouldn't surprise me if they invisibly already control the fate of the majority of the world's countries. That's my conspiracy theory:)
"GS is a forward-deployed tactical nuke" would actually explain a lot.
I'm going to tuck that one away for future reference.
China has already reneged on some GS contracts. What makes you think they care any more about what GS does than what the US government does?
When you are a creditor nation, it doesn't matter what bankers do to your debt. You aren't hurt by walking away, they are. It is only when you are a debtor nation, as all western nations are now, that they have you. None of our governments can continue to function without continuous infusions of cash, like keeping a dead person alive and moving around by continuously feeding fresh blood into their veins. It can't carry on like that forever. One supply disruption and you're pushing up daisies.
Kissinger in China smoothing relations.
U.S needs China's cooperation for deal on Iran. In return, China will NOT be labeled a "currency manipulator".
China will NOT be labeled a "currency manipulator"
agreed completely. good point lizzy.
+8 great point lizzy. so lovely to have you around. always thinking 3 levels deep into the pile. bet you would give ol' henry a run for his $ in a game of risk.
In a gold currency system or even bimetalism currency system (reference: Monetary Mischief - Milton Friedman), the system is self correcting. If a country maintains mercantilist policies, that company accumulates gold reserves from the sale of goods. In this situation. In our current debt based currency system, the chicanery has reached a new pinnacle in silliness. We've contorted this system into such a shape that when it eventually springs back the process will be painful. It's all funny money! We (the US and China) are in the same row boat, and when the game ends we both will lose to a point. I believe the system will naturally correct to the oldest form of money, gold.
All the markets that are artificially supported and have rooted based on artificial flows of funds; think subsidized industries: (the entire US agricultural industry, energy, etc.) will have to go though a painful transition to a natural market price discovery because the US and China currencies will have to be reset/destroyed/defaulted on in the process. I think the chinese are very aware of this, and is why they are encouraging their citizens to buy gold. The cycle can be manipulated in the short term, but will always compensate in the long term (the invisible hand).
Chucky boy is an idiot.
Regardless what China's move will be, Mr. Schumer will retaliate by sucking my cock.
HA HA HA HA HA AH A HAH A
+10000000000
Sounds more like a Barney Fwank retaliation to me...
All this posturing is to pressure China into buying more US debt. That would include arms sales to Taiwan, meeting Dalai Lama etc.
It also proves the secret UK buyer of US treasuries can not possibly be China at this point.
Would one of you geniuses bashing the dollar/USA and betting on the Chinese selling their dollars and buying something else with the proceeds please let us know why the Chinese would be stupid enough to take a major hit on their $2 trillion-dollar dollar position and a second major hit on whatever they decided to roll those dollars into? Selling even a quarter of their dollars would drive the value of the rest of their dollar holdings down to what? And then using that $500 billion to purchase something else, gold, cheese grits, whatever, would drive the price of that investment to what?
Please tell me what market could absorb $500 billion in new investment without becoming a supernova?
Perhaps this gives you a glimmer of insight into the fact the Chinese are between the proverbal rock-and-a-hard place. They've accumulated dollars in a merchantilist attempt to keep their currency undervalued. We didn't force those dollars on them, nor swindled them into taking them. They accumulated them on their own. Now they're going to pay the piper, not the USA.
They can try to put the blame on us by shouting loudly and demanding we display some sort of respect for their con game government, but they're all talk unless they want to shoot themselves in the head (not the foot, the head). They retaliate and we slap major tarrifs on their crap products. Their crap products pile up on their docks, their workers lose their jobs. Those millions of tons of copper, aluminum and iron they've been stockpiling drop in value by 50% within months. Their workers lose their jobs and the value of all that real estate, infrastructure investment and the rest collapses in a 1920's style deflationary depression. And then they've got a revolution on their hands.
The Chinese goverment are bully boys, but they're not stupid. They'll bluster and complain, but they're not going to do anything. If they make a stupid move, it would be the best thing to happen to America in a hundred years.
+7 mostly.
But they can act as a spoiler by screwing things up between us and other countries... like with Iran.
Bingo. Which is one reason we sold arms to Taiwan. You poke us in the eye, you'll get a shovel-handle in the gut back. People don't understand that Taiwan could whip China's ass if it come down to it. Which explains the main reason why they've made no real attempt to take Taiwan, but crushed Tibet.
"People don't understand that Taiwan could whip China's ass if it come down to it"
This has to be the most delusional statement that I have ever heard.
Taiwan has 23 million people, so HITF is Taiwan going whip China's ass?
You are 100% right in your analysis, and that's exactly why the US government can threaten China without fearing any real consequence.
However, the other side of the coin is, Wall Street depends on China for their profits. Without China the entire dollar denominated Ponzi scheme would end immediately. Some people think Vietnam, India etc. can pick up cheap goods manufacturing from China. They haven't done their homework on the scale of infrastructure needed for "the world's factory".
The two sides of chinamerica are actually one and the same beast, and both understand it.
We'll see them accusing each other, but nothing really changes. This is political theatre for public consumption in both countries.
The cold war nuclearwarhead winter doomsday scenario has been replaced with an economic winter doomsday scenario.
Another game of chicken has begun.
You make some good points. However, this doesn’t explain how we’re using China for an ATM. Suppose they decide not to take any more of that? Where does Bernanke go with his paper? It looks to me that China is edging away slowly. As for spending that paper, those who get to use that money early in its circulation, win. It’ll be America’s middle class and poor who are wiped out, not China.
America would be in a tremendous trading position, IMO, if she still held her patents and her original manufacturing capacities and her own resource base; she could still make her own decisions. But she doesn’t and she can’t, international thieves commandeered and bartered them away; they now are in foreign hands.
As to China holding a ton of dollars--and the key to the value of those dollars is Ben Bernanke--and should China retaliate he’ll retaliate and the value of her commodities will drop and her unemployment will increase, IMO, it’s a matter of degree. China could suffer a little retaliation to become more independent of the USA. It’s obvious China has leverage now; Obama went over there and they cuffed him around; he didn’t cuff them around. China also has the eurozone and the rest of Asia and Australia as markets. Couldn’t China take some punishment on the dollar but use the leverage it has on cheap labor and infrastructure and sell her products elsewhere?
It is my position that the internationalists who raided the US lost their bargaining position once they traded off America’s assets and her future. They traded America’s manufacturing, patent and intellectual bases to China for short term private gains in exchange for inexpensive labor. America and her people are the losers. China got instant industrialization with the USA as an instant consumer product drop-off point, all revolving on banker credit. That was quite a bargain for China, IMO. Now what? What bargaining points do the international corporatists have left now that they’ve sold off America?
Look at the positions of China and America in 1970, and take a look now. And then tell me who is the winner. The international financiers, who know no fatherland, have created an awakening giant—a totalitarian, Communist giant, a giant that killed upwards of 50 million people to get where she is and who holds billions of people in bondage; the international financiers used their covet of the fruits of other people’s labor to destroy American free-market capitalism and to substitute that freedom for failed socialism, creeping bondage and poverty.
So much for the American Dream.
Good points. Though I don't worry too much about international financiers. They're no more stupid than the rest of us, but don't get me started on Obama. He's the most incompetent president ever, so there's no telling what sort of chaos he'll create in America and the world at large. (I believe gold's rise has as much to do with fear of Obama's incompetence as fear of anything else.) Hopefully we all survive till January 2012.
Patents and assets we can create anew. And we will if we don't fall into a socialistic nightmare hell before 2012.
"It is my position that the internationalists who raided the US lost their bargaining position once they traded off America’s assets and her future."
Excellent summary.
I would only modify it, internationalists "are losing", rather than "have lost", their bargaining position.
What they're trying to do now, vs. China, is to regain some of that bargaining power. They'll explore China's weaknesses, of which there are plenty, and China's firing back, taking advantage of global distrust of the US financial system.
Publicly the fight will be billed as patriotism, but it's really about Wall Street profits. They'll get their profits short term, but America will continue to lose long term, as you observed.
just opinion... Were i Chinese i would say blow the dollars out your ass.
"Face"a sense of pride and honor goes deep. I do believe we have insulted them repeatedly via actions and lies.
I sense the Chinese will go far to correct that, especially as they see themselves rising. And they are the rising super power.
Unlike us, they are quicker to make sacrifice.
Paladin and htp, thanks. All excellent points.
Chucky and the rest of the village idiots in DC should be careful what they wish for. Should China float the Yuan, they would simultaneously tame their inflation and create a huge domestic market for their mfg. That's lights out for the US.They know we are broke and are biding their time
They are going to respond thats for sure. I sure would like to know why they are picking a fight big time with them. Maybe they know the game is up and need to make them the scape goat when the dollar and our eocnomy go belly up.
They do, it's Mitch McConnell of Kentucky by virtue of his relationship w/ Elaine Chao. To cover the Democrats, the Clintons are also a place where Chinese interests make their voices heard.
Just call China's bluff when it's still a bluff. It'll be a huge thing to do, but at least our government won't completely collapse in the way China will.
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