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There's been a lot of sloppy thinking in this thread. Ad hominem, strawman, appeals to incompetence, if-then-also associations and outright denial of the obvious. After careful observation over the years I have come to realize that just as many 'trvthers' may already be inclined to distrust the Federal g*vernment and so are already prone to 'c*nspiracy the*ries' (I use quotation marks because I believe these terms are emotionally loaded) many of those who fanatically defend the official story do so because the idea that the government could do such a thing as part of an overall strategy is terrifying, therefore inconceivable. It's the equivalent of the guy who refuses to accept that his wife might be cheating on him because 'she could never do that to me.' Too painful to consider.
It's the equivalent of those who shake their heads after the infanticide trial and say, 'how can a parent do that to his/her own child?' It's the equivalent of the gulag prisoners in Siberia who wrote letters to Stalin because they thought the purges and mass roundups were happening because of rogue elements without the knowledge of their beloved leader.
I'm not a misanthrope. But I see human nature for what it is, and so long as motive, means, opportunity and reasonable doubt align, I will never refuse to entertain an idea simply because naivete won't allow me to accept it as a reality.
my 2 cents:
9/11 was an inside job.
You can find the seminal idea in this novel: http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/001/569nzb...
I think it has inspired the last 15 years of neocon warfare thinking.
Hi- I am a longtime viewer, but 1st time poster here at ZH. I am posting mainly to bookmark this thread, and hopefully to ask a question that I have not seen addressed yet.
"IF" the fire(s) caused by the jet fuel in both towers was hot enough to deform the structural steel, would there not be 'display samples' of these 'failed joints' in a showcase backed by complete analysis at, say,CSM?
Court Martial Obama?
I know I do not have the specialized knowledge that most all of these people that are calling for a new investigation.
But apparently Spitzer knows more than all of them, combined.
200+ Artists, Entertainers, and Media Professionals
The first instinct of any large organization is to cover up and hide their mistakes. So if you believe an inside job or not there are ample reasons for the bush administration to cover up things. It isn't like this wouldn't be the first time our government did it.
1) At this point anyone who disputes the idea that our government used 9/11 as an excuse to invade Iraq is living in fantasy. It is well documented that the Bush administration had this in mind since day one.
So this by itself is a reason to cover. How do you think it would go over in tems of civil order if this was really investigated and prosecuted.
2) it is likley there were ample threads suggesting the attack before it happened. Therefore it is huge failue of our government agencies.
another reason to cover up
Folks think about things like the pentagon papers, what was going on with the BP well. governments always try to hide their screw ups. That doesn't mean the CIA blew up the towers.
The exact same thing has happened with the financial crisis. The idiots in charge (despite massive warnings) did nothing to prevent it, they were in bed with those in the industry, they were saying all will be fine while having meetings about what to do with the problem. Notice we still don't have the AIG e-mails and we own the company.
Time and time again we see the same behavior. If you have any doubts think about it. At first the idiot in charge of the agency with the underwear bomber said it proved the system was working. They only changed their tune when it became too funny to continue with the fiction.
Think about the Pope and child molestation. same behavior it is about being "loyal" to the system. you get the reward for being a good trooper. It isn't about fixing the system . it is about saving face and maintaining the power structure.
Name an organization that doesn't behave in this manner. Look at how whistle blowers are punished. Look at Toyota and the breaks, what just came out about J&J with motrin. Tobacco makers and lung cancer. The list is too big to mention it all.
I am sure on of the conditions that was put on Obama before he was chosen to be president was that he had to promise not to look too far into things the Bush aministration did. At the same time he doesn't want people looking too far into things he i doing I am sure. Just like in communism, those in power don't want you peeking to far behind the curtin. Since I believe the real power is in the "elites" that aren't elected nothing surprises me.
A few of the more glaring problems with the 9/11 story are Building 7 collapsing based on nothing. The fact that the hole in the Pentagon outer wall is significantly smaller than the wingspan of the supposed airplane - the govt. seized all video footage of that "crash" by the way. And three -- where are the bodies? At the pentagon and for the plane that went down in the field in PA -- there were no bodies or significant plane wreckage. When have you ever seen a plane crash without corpses?
Oh, and two more. First, great intel by the "terrorists" to pick the one day that our country was running simulation air attacks using phantom jets. Most of our air defense was engaged in a massive drill that day chasing phantom bogies. Great guess, Osama. Second, never in the history of steel buildings has one collapsed do to fire. And yet we have THREE all on the same day.
If anyone is interested, this has to be hands down the best documentary on the inconsistencies about the official 9/11 story ever made. It's fantastic.
No New CommissionProsecutors... Public Treason Trials... If found guilty... the Electric Chair.
Just like the Rosenbergs got...
Batting First For The State Sponsored Terrorism TeamZelikow... you make take the stand...
Batting First For The State Sponsored Terrorism TeamZelikow... you may take the stand...
Your Honor, I plead the Sixth Amendment.
Judge: You mean Fifth Amendment.
Zelikow: I mean Six Amendment, I refuse to answer the following question on the grounds it may tend to eliminate me.
Documentary in contention (as stated above)
Zero - an investigation on 9-11
And how miraculously convenient that they "discovered" $1 Trillion worth of Lithium, Gold and other mineral deposits in Afganistan yesterday. Simply a festivus miracle.
I do not believe that this was GW's fault, but something like a conspiracy that took advantage of his presidency.
Not sure if you addressed this, but what about the plane hitting the Pentagon? How was this debunked? (Referring to: lack of evidence, small damage to building, no damage where jet engines would be given the trajectory, etc)?
I'm pretty sure it is DEBUNKED is when SPITZ says it is DEBUNKED.
I think his shift has ended
So very ef-ing suprised to learn...
Great job, GW.
Keep up the excellent work.
They destroyed the documents because they know who made those puts, and it wasn't Osama bin laden. Because if it was him and other people connected to the terrorists, they would have said see see he was behind this or that. They would have lauded this evidence all over the place. The reason it wasn't was because it showed it was done by people in the West and the names may be familiar and/or connected to people in the govt. Also why destroy those tapes, and why was all these shenannigans if done in a regular court room would have had people in jail. It's because that commission was a paper bull, a paper tiger. It had no power and everyone knew it and told it didn't from the whitehouse to the other agencies that could have helped the commission.
Friends, that day 9/11 and the days before and after will never be told to the regular public. People in govt. and out do know what happened but won't tell for many reasons. The one big reason is that if it was told what truly happened and who allowed it to happen, it would rip this country apart. So we go along and whistle through the graveyard not knowing that every step we take down the road to allowing things to happen that is wrong gets us closer to the final destination of what happens to all empires that refuse to change. Remember how we are told it's impossible to have a dictatorship in the US because our govt. is so beaurocratic that it's impossible for one man or woman to do it. But that sword can cut both ways, it's good they can't make it do what he or she wants but at the same time he or she can't make it not do what IT may or may not want. So if you get a society and a govt. moving a certain way you may not be able to control it and all you as a leader or leaders can do is to ride this ship of state to whatever destination it's fated to have.
What is the largest organization in the world? US armed forces (military)
What is the largest air force? US Air force
What is the second largest air force? US Navy
What consumes the most oil in the world? US military
Kind of disagree only because I do not want anyone to live in a bubble.
Things don't happen for reasons. They happen due to causes. What this means is that there is no single narrative which explains what happens, but a bunch of intersecting forces collapsing into events.
Was it blowback from all the other peoples we have run over, much like volcanos and earthquakes result from one tectonic plate sliding over another?
Or was it an underemployed military complex desperately searching for another adversary, being put to work by a resource industry seriously concerned about third world nationalism taking over potential supplies, with the marriage arranged by a definitively amoral financial sector?
Or some combination of the two?
Probably more to the point, how much does it really matter? Either way, we are seeing a system running up against its limits, reacting blindly and to its own further detriment.
The Chinese, Russians and Iranians may well win this one by default.
I bet your Mom tells you all the time how imaginative you are. And your creative writing teacher probably says the same.
Your PHILOSOPHY / LOGIC teacher says FAIL....
But keep up the grandiose thinking -- I am sure that the oedipal prize you seek is just around the corner.
EXPLAIN THIS its undebunkable
you forgot to explain to everyone that the US has no real enemies, only fake ones so they could stage fake attacks so they could start fake wars.
Maybe if you took your clothes off and danced around on the bar a little bit...Maybe that will get you some attention?
Try it. I'll give you a dollar.
The simplest explanation is that government employees or high level types who were privy to the infamous August warning memo bought some options just in case something happened. They probably didn't imagine the worst case scenario coming true, but it did. Their trades and identities were kept secret by and administration that was adept at lieing. Perhaps foreign nationals were involved too.
Where is the wreckage of the plane that hit the Pentagon ?. Had anyone ever seen any ?. Strange.
On the day when the British finally admitted, (still plenty of questions unanswered no doubt) that the shootings and killings of Northern Irish protesters on "Bloody Sunday" were unarmed, innocent people. Almost 40 years of cover-ups and the facts slowly emerge. One big lie, spread beyond belief of how the slaughtered were armed, of how they were terrorists, of the spread of mis/dis-information. The way the British govt sold and destroyed the evidence and guns used by British forces. Of the use of False Flag operations to demonise the NI people and continue a military occupation of the country.
I have no doubt in my mind that sooner or later the truth on 9/11 and 7/7 as well as other False Flag events will emerge. And when the truth does come out, I guarantee you it will take everyone invested and those that bought the lies down with them. A sea-change is going to occur and it ain't gonna be pretty.
Convince me that the good ol US has no real enemies. They are all just fake enemies ? Binladen is just a puppet right ?
Who on earth are you talking to? Dude?
Is there any point in bringing up Odigo and the messages that went out 2 hours prior to WTC1 being hit?
Sure. People are mentioning the notion of warnings having preceeded the attacks.
The ODIGO situation is not well-known but the info is easy to find and (gasp!) MAINSTREAM!
And it has that quality that make you go "WTF!?!?!?!"
Government employees are not intelligent enough to pull off anything. Think
about this, your a government employee, near the top of the department structure,
and your boss goes in for a physical. He ends up dying on the treadmill during
a stress test.
Another, separate, bureaucracy pulls your name form a hat, now you the man.
As the years come and go you are responsible for picking new hires. Do you pick
people that are capable (of replacing you) ? No. You pick the dumbest sacks
of shit, incapable of any skill (other than secretly masturbating in their cubicle).
And this is where we are now. Devolution in charge of our fate.
"Government employees are not intelligent enough to pull off anything. Think"
Your diatribe and drivel added absolutely nothing to the discussion -- troll!
Instead of "think" try,
thinking analytically -- for a change!
Were you not a complete and total twit, troll, you would be aware that a remarkably similar scenario (ostensibly a counterterrorist simulation) was created several years before 9/11/01 in the Pentagon using military and private contractors.
If you weren't a twit, troll, you might also have figured out that the similar terrorist simulation exercise taking place that day at the National Reconnaissance Office (now 95% privatized), not only caused confusion by its similarity, but most importantly and by design, emptied out the operations center (evacuation as part of the exercise) so no one was on hand to manually task the "eyes in the sky" in geostationary orbit over the Mid Atlantic Seaboard, which could have observed the airspace above NYC and the Pentagon.
The planning was completely and utterly intense! One wonders if Dov Zakheim ever met much with Richard Bissell at those CFR meetings before Bissell died?
What happened to all that Gold, and assorted precious stuff, stored in the towers vault basements?
Funny this rarely never gets mentioned. Bush had a scheduled meeting with various economic bigwigs that day. None were in the towers. Anywhoo, I think it was at Offutt airforce base. Just the place wound up at later in the day.
Also, and this seems to have dropped from existence. I was watching the hearings on C-Span the next few days after. One of the Black congressmen stated his daughter worked in one of the towers. She had been warned not to go into work on 911. When they investigated the person who warned his daughter her appartment was empty even the rugs were removed.
A lot of people were warned but they are not talking. They are still alive and probably are members of the elite.
If a person cannot look at the operations of a private banking cartel that has been empowered to tax without representation and compromise our nation's wealth- you deserve the government you defend.
If you cannot see that every war since WWII was unnecessary and therefore your government killing it's youth- you are too stupid to understand how your government feels about you.
If you don't realize that you are poisoned by your food, water and air with the complicity of your representatives- your ignorance will ravage you.
We do not need conspiracy theories to question our totalitarian regime. While many may be true, our leaders has such distain for our intellectual and disciplinary capabilities- they can afford to tell the truth.
That is the saddest part.
Rather than attacking each other...All one has to do, is their own research..There is LOTS of info out there...(And avoid the kool-aid..) Until one has made the effort, it is not likely they'll be convinced with a few snippets of info here..Me thinks it's all part of the long-running chess game..
Be safe all...
Professor Plum in the Conservatory with a Revolver! This is old news. 9/11 was an inside job. We all know this.
I have some "Loose Change" if anyone needs a healthy dose of factual truthiness.
you cling to faith in conspirators, you are a coward
You know Spitz I think the Census is still hiring...Prolly a better fit for you.
This troll thing -- you're not very good at it. Just sayin...
The powers that pulled this off now are at the point where they don't care what we know, it's all ancient history as is the Maine, Lusitainia, Pearl Harbor, Gulf of tonkin. And even if we do figure it out exactly what are we going to do about it? They have that covered too.
Now that I've read the post and the comments, I gotta go take a shower.
the crying game
Uh, ok. Thanks?
The traders were most likely Saudi princes. Link 911 to the Saudi gov't and Bush would have had to go after the Saudis. Several suspect princes did die accidentally on purpose during the following months. This destruction of documents is treason. Protecting our enemies.
Does anyone remember that Bush hired a private air craft (when there were no flights allowed) for the Bin Lauden family that was in the United States? I always wondered why they were here and Bush needed to protect them.
So, there you have it. Even foreign terrorists are front running the market. Am I the only one making legitimate trades??!!
9/11 conspiracy stirs the pot almost as much as the alternative energy discussions!
When you find zero point energy please get back to me. in the mean time you can reach me at eroei.com.
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