Second Mini Flash Crash In Apple In Same Day

Tyler Durden's picture

The flash crashes will continue until market confidence returns (this is the second one in Apple today). Who is even trading this insanity anymore? This entire market is about to break hard: any piece of bad news can topple Apple like a house of cards, and that, as we noted earlier, will take the entire market with it. Oh yes, this is supposedly the second most liquid name in the market!

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Missing_Link's picture

Do these really qualify as "mini flash crashes"?  They seem like fairly small downturns to me  ...  not really too unusual.  Certainly nowhere near the level of Accenture dropping from $44 to $0.01 on May 6.

B9K9's picture

Karl seems to think so - in fact, he's beginning to sound like a typical poster @ ZH. Too bad he ran off everyone about a year or so ago before finally figuring out the truth. Like EAP @ the Telegraph, bitter recriminations typically begin once deniers fully embrace reality. Essays from all sectors of the political spectrum calling out evil should only get better. Can Barry R be far behind?

Edit: Check out this brand new piece from Paul Farrell:

America on the brink of a Second Revolution

Admit it, something historic is brewing. And yes, it’s good for America, even the anarchy. Revolution is renewal.


cbaba's picture

You dont consider 2% percent drop in few second as a crash ?

egdeh orez's picture

2% drop in a few seconds honestly happens all the time.

deadparrot's picture

In micro-caps, yes. In Apple, no. How deep do you think the limit order book for Apple is? It should be extremely deep.

NotApplicable's picture

Maybe back in the "good ole days" that was true, but hey, as posted on ZH yesterday, TPTB decided that 15% is a the definition of an actionable flash crash.

Today, 2% is merely noise.

cougar_w's picture

Just to clear something up, I think you got the 15% thing wrong.

That is not the definition of a flash crash. They define a flash crash any way they like. Seriously.

That is the cut-off point within the crash below which trades are DKed. So if you got in on the crash above 15% of the total sell-off trough, you can keep your trade.

Isn't that special? You can create a crash, jump in early (of course) and keep your ill-gotten gains as realized profits. And since it's 15% of trough, you can set how far down the 15% level is by unbinding the bots at the point you want the crash to end.

It's a beautiful thing. Really.

Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Pure insanity and corruption are always beautiful to behold....assuming you're not on the wrong end of the maniac waving the butcher's knife or the HFT algos using their own version of the butcher's knife. Otherwise it's just plain bloody.

cougar_w's picture

Now see what you've done.

That talk about knives and blood and maniacs and now I'm all thinking about lunch.

Cui Bono's picture

Aaah, I probably get banned for life for this... But there is a way to keep you both happy......

Todt, CB

ZeroPower's picture


If youre on any decent sized desk and you get told to dump, you fucking dump at any bids you can get. 

This is clearly just a large sell order coming in and clearing the bid-side of the book. Of course, as you mentioned Tyler, this should not happen so easily in such the '2nd most liquid name', however, the only time this stock prints 1MM+ on the 1min bars is either on open/close.

In this case i will argue it was someone dumping shares the 'ghetto' way, which doesn't involve your algo splitting the shares up in tiny blocks.

IMO, this is a poor example to have it called anything close to a flash crash.

Quinvarius's picture

Clearly fat finger was working today.

RockyRacoon's picture

All the same, it scares the crap out of the "ordinary investor" who just pulls up his big-boy skivvies and gets out of the market... leading to more of this sort of thing on a larger and larger scale. 

ZeroPower's picture

I would suggest to you the retail investor has other things to be worried about. This drop in price might have hurt for daytraders (so, non 'ordinary' investor) with tight stops, but the drop was bid back up in literally minutes.   

I agree with the general gist, RR, of how the constant flash crashes reported here are detrimental for the market, but lets call a spade a spade here and not misconstrue today's p/a in apple as something else.

RockyRacoon's picture

I'm an ordinary investor and I know several others as well.  We ain't playin'!

overbet's picture
another bail out for the risk to front run you and spray orders NYSE Trader Update Notify

 to me show details 1:32 PM (41 minutes ago) 04:27pm 28/09/2010 Market Operations Update CEE Review Determination for RFI

The NYSE has determined to cancel all trades in COHEN & STEERS TTL RTN RLTY FD (NYSE: RFI), executed at or above $12.95 between 15:18 and 15:20 ET today.


This decision is not subject to appeal.

overbet's picture
AND ANOTHER ONE 04:27pm 28/09/2010 Market Operations Update CEE Review Determination for RFI

The NYSE has determined to cancel all trades in COHEN & STEERS TTL RTN RLTY FD (NYSE: RFI), executed at or above $12.95 between 15:18 and 15:20 ET today.


This decision is not subject to appeal.


rapacious rachel wants to know's picture
rapacious rachel wants to know (not verified) Sep 28, 2010 11:41 AM

equities have fallen, are falling, will further fall into disfavor

a generation will pass before they return to favor

just like real estate is doing

Arthor Bearing's picture

If there's even a functioning economy for the present and coming generations, there will still be equities but they won't be "traded" like baseball cards. There will be people doing a weird thing called "investing," in which people familiar with an enterprise buy a significant stake in it because they are "actually knowledgeable about it" (which is different from reading fraud-laden paper disclosures). This will mostly not happen on exchanges but rather between private individuals.

I like this blog but I don't think trading stocks is a particularly meaningful thing to spend your time doing.

rapacious rachel wants to know's picture
rapacious rachel wants to know (not verified) Arthor Bearing Sep 28, 2010 11:48 AM

"I like this blog but I don't think trading stocks is a particularly meaningful thing to spend your time doing."

that's a big no shit!

anyone invested in this casino is nutz

might as well go play Chuk-a-Luck

hbjork1's picture

Junking, for some threads at least, has gotten "out of hand".  That translates as irresponsible.  I guess it is fun for some people.


cougar_w's picture

JUNK BAIT! Everyone pile on. Last one to junk is an old lady.

cougar_w's picture

I'm generally useful as things go, and then suddenly I'm all about the mayhem and casual destruction. Hang in there. It gets better.'s picture

i'll add my 2¢

it does get better if you mostly laugh at yourself. a lot better.

Hephasteus's picture

I regret that I have but one junk to give for my culture.

Joeman34's picture

It's contagious, BITCHEZ!

RockyRacoon's picture

Junking coward

The joint is crawling with 'em.  We need to root 'em out and string 'em up.

VWbug's picture

and i don't think playing video games or watching stupid sitcoms is a particularly meaningful way to spend time either, but i don't go around preaching to others about it

barkingbill's picture

video games are much better then sitcoms however. 

VWbug's picture

i dunno, i haven't played one since i was about 16.

there's a couple of good shows on tv...flight of the concordes, eastbound and down...that's all i can think of right now

Joeman34's picture

Wrong, in case you're not aware, we have been in a 30-year secular bull-market for bonds.  Hence the current historically low interest rate environment.  Equities have underperformed fixed income on an annualized basis over the last 20-years.  Despite the current factors that are negatively impacting the equity markets currently [read:  declining GDP, manipulation, false accounting], there is a higher probability equities will outperform fixed income going forward - based on historical data.

My thought is that sovereign default will be the pin that bursts the bond bubble.  There will also be pain in the equity markets, but I think they will recover faster than the fixed income markets.  Just MHO... 

Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

Why would a bond bubble pop be positive for stocks?  What do you think is propping the zombies?

Joeman34's picture

I never said the bond bubble popping would be directly positive for stocks.  Both states can exist independently of one another.  Again, my point was simply that bonds have beaten equities for over two decades so history suggests the odds favor equities going forward.

Divided States of America's picture

Percentage wise its small for Apple but still, if there was so much liquidity, it should not have tanked 4 bucks in a second when the spread increments are in pennies.

Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Cockroach # 1: "What was that?"

Cockroach # 2: "Some damn fool keeps opening the refrigerator door."

He turns to the other cockroaches. "Guys, it's only a little light. Stop it already."

Cheater5's picture

Haha.  Are you being sarcastic????  The B/A spreads were no where near pennies when apple was selling off.  HFTs are walking away from the market and then the stops get hit as soon as someone hits the bid and then more HFTs walk away.   I'm no great admirer of AAPL (frankly I think its market cap is plain old stupid) and was looking for a short this AM, but my system wont allow me to trade when the B/A spread blows out like they did as the risks to the downside are too high if you get a quick reversal.

trav7777's picture

oh, I think you know a little somethin about that...

Joeman34's picture

Generally soft, sometimes creamy, goes well with toast or any number of vegetables.  Can also be a vast assortment of food, i.e. Thanksgiving.



Cheater5's picture

Be nice people... 

A spread is the difference between two numbers.  For instance I reference the "B/A spread" which is shorthand for the difference between the bid price and the ask price for a security.  There are other spreads as well in finance.  For instance a "credit spread" is the difference between the implied rate paid on a non-government bond and the implied rate paid on a government bond of equal duration ("duration" is sort of like maturity but a bit more complicated).  I would very respectfully suggest that you go to wiki finance, investopia or whatever before asking a question like this to avoid the type of replies that you received.  I don't know what your experience level is but many (certainly not all) people who read ZH have been in the business for decades and most are less tolerant than I am (then again my tolerance level may be highly correlated to your avatar picture...).  Cheers.'s picture

no, i only did limit orders. i think i learned that from jim cum...her. so i use to see the "B/A" but didn't know that was called a spread. hey, just to let you know i get to do whatever and ask whatever questions i want to here, and anywhere else i want to. i am still a free person. so don't tell me what to do.

Cheater5's picture

Wow!!, that was not the response I expected to receive for the 3ish mins I put in to write my last post.  I guess the "very respectfully" was lost on you.   That is unless you were joking.

By the way you are absolutely right that you have the right to ask any question you want here.   Those of us here who actually understand what we are doing also have the right to ignore your questions or, if we are really bored, treat them with derision.   From your writing style you appear to be either very young or a non-native English speaker.  Since I doubt the later given your screen name, I would very humbly suggest you spend some time listening and being somewhat respectful rather spouting off (a little diligence with respect to your writing style couldn't hurt either).   I would also suggest that only using limit orders is not particularly bright no matter what Jim Cramer says (I am assuming that is who "Jim cum...her" is - NICE TYPO!!!!!).


If of course this is all a joke on your part,  then I would suggest that you should not quit your day job any time soon.

Hephasteus's picture

You're going to need deep understanding of psychology and parapsychology to handle her which is why she hates cognitive dissonance. ;)

Cheater5's picture

I'm speechless....  The funny thing is that I actually was trying to be helpful with my first reply to her.   Won't make that mistake again.  After her last reply I actually looked up her postings.  She seems to post constantly.  All useless stuff, but a constant stream.  Oh well I guess she is "important" so I suppose I will stay out of her way in the future....'s picture

listen up ass wipe. i am very important around here. plus, my delete key doesn't function. you try life without a delete key. i can write with any style i want, fucko. look who is using her real name and real picture of herself. i want a bag over my ugly face any way. i might even put a hot iron to my face like an elder japanese woman did many hundreds of years ago. reason, so she could be taken seriously as a defect. go fuck your wife and leave me alone.