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"The Secret Of Oz" - The Truth Behind The Modern Financial System, And The Money-Political Complex

Tyler Durden's picture




 

While America is entertained by a rather realistic cartoon of what happens when the Fed (semantics aside) prints money with which to buy up whatever assets it so chooses, and launders the cash for the Primary Dealers (a topic discussed ad nauseam on Zero Hedge), we present a rather more somber and serious look at the modern financial system, courtesy of Bill Still, creator of the movie: "The Secret of Oz" which explains in a far more nuanced manner the interconnectedness in the vicious square of power, politics, money creation and debt formation, and Wall Street, the Fed, and the Political forces in DC are intertwined to a degree that essentially makes the whole concept of democracy moot (a topic touched upon earlier by Bill Buckler). As Still  says: "The world economy is doomed to spiral downwards until we do 2 things:
outlaw government borrowing; 2. outlaw fractional reserve lending. Banks
should only be allowed to lend out money they actually have and nations
do not have to run up a "National Debt". Remember: It's not what backs
the money, it's who controls its quantity." As more and more Americans are finally expressing an interest in what is really happening behind the scenes, but seem to not have the patience for simple algebra, we hope the following movie answers most of the pent up questions.

Still's movie is well worth the two hours it takes to watch.

h/t Fiat Currency

 

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Sun, 11/14/2010 - 16:25 | 726281 Samual Adams
Samual Adams's picture

This is a great documentary/educational film.  Must watch for those who want to learn about the truth.   Also good for helping people wake up, to reality.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 20:23 | 726627 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

Absolutely... I'm starting to have little tolerance for the poison too many consider knowledge about how our economy works.. They can complicate it as much as they want with their "education" but it will always come back to the basics no matter what these educated morons invent to trick people into thinking we don't need to build things and we can just shuffle paper around and consider it wealth..

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 20:33 | 726631 TheJudge2012
TheJudge2012's picture

I used to believe in Bill Still's "Money Masters" until I fact checked it. It got to the point where it was hard to find any quote or historical account that was accurate. Example: the words inflation and deflation, in what he says is Jefferson's quote about banks, did not even exist at that time in a monetary sense.

http://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/private-banks-quotation

He draws his conclusion to stay on an unbacked fiat currency based on a ton of inaccurate history.

The best idea for sound money comes from Ron Paul, competing currencies. Let the free market decide what to use.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 21:40 | 726766 Ragnarok
Ragnarok's picture

This is what I propose, which I believe is Freegold and this intertwined.

 

Two tier money system separated by the anticipated time of use.  Gold to store wealth and a national issued debt-free currency for near to medium term transactions.  Monetize both and allow to compete.

 

Gold:

- Its FLOW must be guaranteed no matter the price

- No frational reserve banking

- Acts a a check against all national currencies.

 

Debt-Free Currency:

- Issued by the government

- No fractional reserve banking

- Acts as a check against the gold market

 

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 00:52 | 726965 midtowng
midtowng's picture

Why not include silver, like the Constitution said?

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 07:45 | 727206 clymer
clymer's picture

 

I liked money masters, and this was informative - but he put his entire focus on debt-based money controlled by private corporate bankers following the british model - important facts - and described deflation as money supply being pulled out by those that control it.. But didn't talk about inflation much. Even if the power to print and coin money were put back under the treasury, appropriated by congress - would not the same special interests that represent the military industrial complex, insurance, pharma, etc. still be funding campaigns and getting their share? Would the supply of unbacked money still be expanding, and would this not be inflationary?

This film didn't really answer this for me - or if it did, I didn't catch it.

 

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 21:48 | 726767 TheJudge2012
TheJudge2012's picture

A couple years ago I did a lot of research trying to find something accurate in Bill Still's "Money Masters." I don't have time to go back and research so I can post more Money Masters contrivances, but this research comes from a youtube poster on a Still interview with Alex Jones:

epxroot76
3 weeks ago

@thedantien Regarding the excerpts from The Bankers Magazine. I was able to locate a copy on the web. The volume I found was from 1891 - 1892, and I could not find one? of the excerpts he used in his film. I also found a copy from 1920 that claimed the excerpts were all false and were never published in an volume of The Bankers Magazine. I will post the links.

http://www.youtube.com/comment_servlet?all_comments=1&v=1VsySSjFG4I

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 22:57 | 726851 Urban Roman
Urban Roman's picture

The best idea for sound money comes from Ron Paul, competing currencies. Let the free market decide what to use.

That's cool because I just wrote "$100" on the back of a cocktail napkin with a sharpie. I'm going to make more of these things and use them to pay all my bills.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 00:02 | 726916 AnonymousAnarchist
AnonymousAnarchist's picture

Let me know who accepts your napkin-money so I can do business with them as well.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 10:23 | 727386 Chappaquiddick
Chappaquiddick's picture

You clearly have a vested interest in Banking.  You are part of the problem.  At some stage if you are lucky there will a bloodless coupe and sanity will be restored to the worlds financial system.  If you're unlucky there'll be a bloody coupe and you and your repellant swarm will be excised French style off the face of the Earth.

How many Presidents in that period got capped over the control of the money system??   JFK too?  Obe-Wan might be next.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 10:47 | 727441 TheJudge2012
TheJudge2012's picture

You must be joking. Did you read my other post? Try emailing the commenter I cited for links. Then go thru the Money Masters like I did and try to find something accurate (it won't be easy) instead of going along with the notion that hard money is bad based on data you've never checked out for yourself.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 16:48 | 726286 svendthrift
svendthrift's picture

Oz is an outstanding documentary. Why do rich people in the media want a gold standard? Watch and learn. The US should issue and control the volume of her own currency. Banks having this function is quite simply insane.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 18:45 | 726458 morkov
morkov's picture

why not simply control government spending of public value??? public can vote for everything. there's Internet now. if the public is stupid than they will have to be educated. it will be the greatest advance to for society...problematic, but manageable.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 18:47 | 726465 morkov
morkov's picture

yes, I mean "SIMPLY"

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 23:34 | 726888 trav7777
trav7777's picture

The average member of the general public lacks the intelligence to be sufficiently educated.

I mean we even have a captcha here that I wager most posters use a calculator for and you still see people saying ridiculously stupid things rather frequently.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 07:42 | 727203 goldsaver
goldsaver's picture

Because we don't live in a democracy. We are supposed to be a Republic. We are at best a plutocracy, at worst an Idiocracy.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 16:42 | 726298 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Yeah that system worked great in the Continental and the ancient paper currencies.  While I would prefer the press to be in Congresses hands it's not like the end result of total currency debasement would be any different.  All faith based paper currencies that can be printed to infinity are destined for the dustbin of history.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 00:50 | 726963 midtowng
midtowng's picture

Maybe it isn't as simple as just going back to a government backed currency, but the movie captured an extremely important point that most people, even gold bugs, tend to ignore: ultimately the lion's share of the problem with our currency isn't that it isn't backed, its that it is backed by debt.

  People here talk about going back to a gold standard, which is better than what we have now. But its only a step in the right direction. To fully fix the problem we need to go back to a gold AND silver backed currency, just like the Constitution said.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 16:53 | 726305 VeloSpade
VeloSpade's picture

For those who do not have time to watch it and never read the original book upon which the movie was written, here is the clincher:

Contrary to the original novel, Dorothy's shoes were not ruby slippers as depicted in the movie, but were made of silver.  Guess what the yellow brick road symbolizes?  Ok, I spoiled it enough.  Just watch it for the full story.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 16:56 | 726309 nuinut
nuinut's picture

Currency needs no "backing". The store of value needs to be non-printable.

This movie is (well intentioned) misinformation.

A waste of two hours, IMHO.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:46 | 726385 LeBalance
LeBalance's picture

B.i.n.g.o.

&

"As Still  says: "The world economy is doomed to spiral downwards until we do 2 things: outlaw government borrowing"

Nope: outlaw government.

~FOFOA: "Checkbook money is paper, store of value is hard assets, and the acme of hard assets has always been gold.  It is therefore money."

and Bill, there will be no stopping the downdraft for quite awhile.  Get prepared for something completely different.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:51 | 726392 nuinut
nuinut's picture

Problem is, people have no imagination, it's been conditioned out of them it would seem.

Without imagination, we'd still be in caves, or worse.

Something different isn't always something worse, although it can appear that way to the less flexible.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 18:05 | 726412 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture

Invention comes from imagination.

Necessity is the mother of invention.

Therefore, when necessity calls for it, imagination will be revived.

Or...  The reason things always have to get worse before they get better is because if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 18:35 | 726427 nuinut
nuinut's picture

+ frickin' heaps.

Is that necessity I hear callin'? Why, I do believe it is.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 23:53 | 726906 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

+1

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 18:51 | 726476 Oracle of Kypseli
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NUINUT

No matter what anyone's opinion is about the movie, as a minimum, it exposes the bankers evil doings. And that is the first step.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 19:15 | 726521 nuinut
nuinut's picture

Agreed. It just frames the problem (evil bankers tool) as debt-backed money, which is incorrect.

The people just seem to have difficulty resisting the temptation of a free lunch. The people are equally guilty (as bankers), for accepting the debt in the first instance.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 19:28 | 726541 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Could not agree more.  "You can't con an honest man"  The lure of free goodies has always been used as a trap throughout the ages.  Which is why sadly I cannot see the future being any different.  Might change for a while, like the depression era gen being savers and frugal, but memories fade with time and man's nature returns once more.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 19:34 | 726553 nuinut
nuinut's picture

Which is why sadly I cannot see the future being any different.

I can.

Freegold makes the change in incentive, for everyone. 

With a bona fide store of value, dishonesty is disincentivized (is that a word?)

Everything continually deflates against value, which is continually created.

Value. The one thing we would all like to see more of.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 20:10 | 726610 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Should freegold happen I'm inclined to agree.  However even freegold would not last.  In 100 years even with advanced tech the people would forget about what things were like in the pure fiat world and with the proper prodding might be lured back to it...maybe 200 years it has been pretty brutal :)

This thought strikes me, how will wars be financed?  Seems like in history when ti comes time for war the gold standard was always abandoned.  And should the gov just print it would send a bit of a panic through the gold holders, or info might break down.  IE confusion about how much has been printed. Since the whole banking system would be gone, selling debt to finance it would be rough, and printing if revealed would slag the transactional value of the currency.  Seems the only recourse would be direct war taxes, like way back in the day.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 22:51 | 726848 nuinut
nuinut's picture

Freegold is not the gold standard though, it is a worldwide currency valuation system, with a floating reserve. After the caning we are about to receive, I think we'll collectively be swearing off debt for a bit longer than 200 years, and if Freegold works out like I'm picking, no one will want to go back anyway.

I see no reason why our monetary system cannot evolve with us past a lot of the behavior and attitudes we currently take for granted.

How is it the US has the deepest pockets, but hasn't actually won a war in 50 years? Looking back, it would appear that debt allowed WW1&2 to be so large, that the US financed most participants, and then financed the rebuilding too.

No single govt can go it alone, without massive collateral damage to their currency, which is the source of their power. I can't see war being such a feature of the future either, just like banking, finance and debt. Would we miss them?

Every govt would have to ditch the mantra of continual growth, and prioritize making their country sustainable and productive. 

 Since the whole banking system would be gone, selling debt to finance it would be rough, and printing if revealed would slag the transactional value of the currency.  Seems the only recourse would be direct war taxes, like way back in the day.

No one to buy the debt, so it couldn't happen.

Direct war taxes? What the hell is this future war over, that any populace will submit to that? War seems to be predominantly a financially inspired venture, and to be a lot less likely under a Freegold financial system.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 00:00 | 726915 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

War seems to be predominantly a financially inspired venture

 

All human conflict is economic in nature.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 01:35 | 726989 Shameful
Shameful's picture

"Human behavior is economic behavior. The particulars may vary, but competition for limited resources remains a constant. Need as well as greed have followed us to the stars, and the rewards of wealth still await those wise enough to recognize this deep thrumming of our common pulse."

-- Nwabudike Morgan, "The Centauri Monopoly"

Yeah it's a video game, quote is still spot on.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 01:33 | 726988 Shameful
Shameful's picture

That was were I was going with a war tax. Historically there were INSANELY unpopular. And it caused many a revolt. The central banking inflation model basically allowed a war tax to be done in a manner where the average person would not realize full what was being done.

I'm 100% against wars, and pretty sure that if the expenses for the US's adventures were financed with a war tax the war would be over post haste! But it would be difficult to expect there would be no war, but more likely they would be on a more limited scale without debt financing for them.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 20:47 | 726663 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

"You can't con an honest man" 

Absurd.. Sounds nice though.. Sheesh  So anyone taken by another had it coming.. JFC... what's next..

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 21:48 | 726780 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Most cons take advantage of human weakness so it's not that far off the mark.  Sure a lot of people get conned but a lot of it can be traced back to greed, indifference, or ignorance.  Look at what was happening in the housing market on the low level before the crash came.  I'm not saying it absolves anyone of anything, that excuse wouldn't hold up in court.  But then again no one is going to court over this collapse either.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 00:10 | 726926 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Of those "victims" in the property bubble, can we say with certainty they were honest? Were they performing an honest day's work, for an honest day's pay? Or merely using a home as an ATM? Is this an  honest path to the product of one's mind, and it's call of the body, to action?

Did all of these machinations produce anything off which a family can survive? Since many are willfully defaulting now, are they still honest?

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 00:56 | 726970 midtowng
midtowng's picture

I disagree. The original sin is debt-based money.

Yes, I agree that the ultimate solution isn't to simply issue lots of non-debt-based money, like the money implies. But the movie is correct that the problems start with borrowing money into existence. There is no need for it except to enrich the banksters.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 20:13 | 726613 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

Not only this, but it is bad enough gold and silver bugs have to be continually bashed, and now this guy is doing it too.  I was hoping for something better, not to mention the historical broad brushed inaccuracies contained therein.

 

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 21:16 | 726724 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

Don't feel bad, I actually paid for the DVD. These guys are counting on "new" US fiat being the modern Rentenmark after Ben goes QE to infinity with the "old" Reichsbank Fed notes.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 20:18 | 726620 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

Why can you not have a goverment fiat system internally and a gold exchange to settle foregin trade.

A hybrid system is not beyond imagination and it would have the advantages of giving nations the freedom to develop their domestic capital via non debt credit creation while a Gold exchange with foregin countries would instill a discipline of not spending beyond ones means.

 

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 20:28 | 726639 Trifecta Man
Trifecta Man's picture

The US government likely has little gold to back the international exchange.  The banksters conned the government into lending it out to suppress the price of gold.  They haven't returned it.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 20:41 | 726656 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

Yes quite possibly - I have a sense that the Gold standards of old were tied to coal economies where the fuel was less liquid and transportable -  while as the oil age began to take hold, especially outside the wests borders it became impossible for countries such as the US to hold gold as the worlds capital was elsewhere and easily transported.

Now that peak oil may have been reached the dynamics are changing once again.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 20:49 | 726667 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

Why can you not have a goverment fiat system internally and a gold exchange to settle foregin trade.

Well.. since we have a 500 billion trade deficit, how long would our gold last?.. Assuming we still have some..

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 21:25 | 726737 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

Yes Max that's a bit of a problem - in is no coincidence that the US went to a full fiat system in 71 as it reached max production of oil back then.

I imagine if yee remained on a gold standard very serious austerity and structural reforms would have been made and developments such as the wal-mart / truck based transport economy would never have been successful.

How the US is going to adjust to austerity when you had a century of increasing domestic energy and then free credit for another 40 years is beyond me.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 08:37 | 727233 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

Well.. by definition, we will adjust but it will not be a traditional "adjustment" but the necessary collapse of the current system..

You are right, it's not coincedence that we went the so called "gold standard" the same year the U.S. began a trade deficit..

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:00 | 726319 Modern Money Me...
Modern Money Mechanics's picture

This is one three great pieces on the nature of money and the private/public struggle that has gone on for 5,000 years.

The most complete description has to be Ellen Brown's The Web of Debt. On Amazon it has 160 reviews of which 24 are less than 5 stars! http://www.webofdebt.com/

Bill Still follows Ellen's book closely. He goes on site, providing great images such as the English Tally Sticks. An interesting example that Bill provides that is not in Ellen's book is the nature of early Roman copper coinage and the effect that Julius Caesar has by implementing gold coinage.

The third is Damon Vrabel who has a great series of essays that develop in detail the debt-based monetary system; how it supercides both government and private interests; how the private banking "without-boarders" has taken over the West. Damon also does a good job explaining how "sovereign debt" is an oxymoron. http://csper.wordpress.com/ and http://www.csper.org/

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:02 | 726322 trav7777
trav7777's picture

AGAIN.

If oil has peaked, aggregate energy supply has peaked, EROI is declining to unity.

IT WILL NOT MATTER what our monetary system IS or who prints what.  There WILL NOT BE the energy to make more cars for more people to drive more miles!  OK?

All this talk about the Fed and the "criminals" is DENIAL.  What are you people gonna do when oil production falls materially?  Even after the Fed is ended, Dimon and Blankfein are in jail and we have a gold standard?

NOTHING can alter reality, not confidence, not monetary bullshit...there is NO deus ex machina out of this other than sustainable fusion power.

FOCUS your time and efforts on the achievement of increased energy supply and not kvetching over irrelevancies.

Debt money is collapsing SIMPLY because the future DOES NOT CONTAIN GROWTH.

The solutions proposed in all these articles are foolish and ineffective.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 18:11 | 726330 Frank Owen
Frank Owen's picture

GODDAMMIT, Trav... I've got it! The new currency that meets all the criteria shall be:

http://motivac.sopca.com/files/2007/08/dilithium.jpg

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:26 | 726359 ibjamming
ibjamming's picture

"Debt money is collapsing SIMPLY because the future DOES NOT CONTAIN GROWTH."

 

Yup...the base of the pyramid has stopped growing to support those above...and the little population growth we have...is the "wrong" kind of people...the poor.

 

ARE we in peak oil?  A plateau?  If we ARE into peak oil...we're fucked.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 21:08 | 726704 Rollerball
Rollerball's picture

Peak energy is a myth.  

Money represents value in "stores" OF ENERGY that can be taxed and controlled. Otherwise, it isn't "minded" (mined, produced, developed, etc).  Study Tesla's theories.  They built HAARP.  Besides, we still have more carbon than we know what to do with.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 23:24 | 726875 wake the roach
wake the roach's picture

Peak energy is a myth.

 

Oh please Alex Jones...

You have no idea of what energy available to perform work is, how it becomes/is made available and what its utilization means so please just shut the fuck up...

And that goes for every other energy retard here at ZH (ie robo). If you have no understanding of the laws of thermodynamics that govern all energy/matter within our UNIVERSE, then everything you think you know is built upon fantasy, you know nothing.  No knowledge is more fundamental here in what we know as objective reality, and thats as true for a physicist as it is true for an economist.

We're now facing a global net energy catastrophe the scale of which mankind will never again know and its make or break for the very future of our global civilization and the lives of billions of people. If you think that is an over exaggeration then YOU are either ignorant, or a moron. No more excuses folks, we're in big trouble. The kind of trouble no ammount of gold, government, regulation/de-regulation, keynesian or austrian economics could ever fix. The only choice left to make is do we voluntarily end the inefficient and obsolete profit system of energy exchange whilst we have the energy resources available to do it, or fight for the last energy resources all the way back to the stoneage. Entropy always wins, always.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 23:40 | 726893 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Spot on Wake the Roach, Mankind is facing its greatest challenge ever. Answering that challenge with green energy is telling of our lack of understanding on the magnitude of the problem facing us.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 03:09 | 727046 fxrxexexdxoxmx
fxrxexexdxoxmx's picture

Peak coal? We are at peak coal and natural gas? Or are these energy sources not clean enough to qualify for peak oil and Armageddon?

If we tax the crap of our energy sources will allowing sovereign nations to produce without the same cost we can eliminate production of energy in the USA. Will that be useful?

 

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 08:08 | 727219 goldsaver
goldsaver's picture

We're now facing a global net energy catastrophe the scale of which mankind will never again know and its make or break for the very future of our global civilization and the lives of billions of people. If you think that is an over exaggeration then YOU are either ignorant, or a moron. No more excuses folks, we're in big trouble

Oh,I get it. We are all too stupid to realize we are stupid. Unless we agree with your theories.

The only choice left to make is do we voluntarily end the inefficient and obsolete profit system of energy exchange whilst we have the energy resources available to do it, or fight for the last energy resources all the way back to the stoneage.

I had to read this a few times (since Im too stoopid to understand), before I finally got it. You are talking about voluntarilly accepting a centrally managed economy that does not depends on profit but the wise decisions of a monarch. Yep, thank you. Now I can ignore anything else you say.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:54 | 726398 tallystick
tallystick's picture

Mass deployment of residential geothermal can reduce gas and  electricity consumption by half.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 18:30 | 726445 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

Back in the day (2003 - 2007), as a Commercial Real Estate Contractor, several of our projects called for Geothermal HVAC systems. The initial cost is staggering, something like a 20 - 25 year time frame to recoup the investment, not to mention the maintenance through the years, the systems constantly have to be re-balanced, check valves replaced, pumps replaced, etc., etc. not to mention the fact that aquifers are permanently fucked up.

 

I don't see it ever happening.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 18:56 | 726484 flattrader
flattrader's picture

Shittly installation and maintenance is to blame.  Horizontal v. deep vertical installation is better for aquifers.

20-25 year time frame?  Not so.

Only if you are stuped enough to not factor in energy cost inflation into the ROI.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 20:02 | 726536 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

 - and I guess you're speaking from experience, eh? My last project called for 150 boreholes, each 600ft deep @ $25ft...and that's just a hole in the ground with casing. Then, of course comes the piping and plumbing, and that fucking shit ain't cheap either flattrader.

 

Never heard of horizonal bores for geothermal, first thing that comes to mind is encroachment on adjacent properties, that's a no-go.

 

Well, some idiot engineer somewhere along the line did factor in the fact that this entire geothermal system runs on...are you ready for this?...ELECTRICITY. So ROI is razor thin if any at all.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 23:30 | 726882 Urban Roman
Urban Roman's picture

Because a geothermal system depends on small temperature gradients, it's extremely easy to simply fritter away any of the heat you pick up from the hole with poor insulation or by running cool and warm lines right alongside each other until they equilibrate. The average tradesman knows zilch about thermodynamics.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 23:48 | 726900 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

  - not sure where you're from, but around here, all geothermal systems have to meet U.S. Federal, State and Local Building Codes, no exceptions.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 00:00 | 726913 Urban Roman
Urban Roman's picture

I'm not in the building trades, but as a recipient, I can say that building codes are at best an approximation, and that the codes don't know any thermodynamics either.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 00:05 | 726920 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

...and obviously you "know" thermodynamics.

 

what's that law? diminishing returns??

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 01:00 | 726971 Urban Roman
Urban Roman's picture

1. you can't win;

2. you can't break even;

3. you can't get out of the game.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 01:30 | 726985 Rusty Shorts
Mon, 11/15/2010 - 09:45 | 727309 Blankman
Blankman's picture

I rent a house that is "heated" and "cooled" by an horizontal geothermal system.  Landlord paid ~25-30k for the system.  The backup heat is electric.  Heat is good to about 70 degrees after that needs backup system to kick in.  I live in northern IL and during the winter the backup is constantly running elec bills run well over $500 a month (6months a year).  Summer elec bill ~$250 month.     

Sat, 11/20/2010 - 05:07 | 742865 Urban Roman
Urban Roman's picture

Exactly what I was talking about. My brother has a horizontal system at his house, he built it himself back in the 80s.

My brother's system works (without much regard for the 'codes') extremely well. He gets a COP of 3 or 4 as I recall... cool climate in the northeastern US.

But my brother has a PhD in physics.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 18:48 | 726470 flattrader
flattrader's picture

No joke tally.

Any new commercial or multifamily construction that has a parking lot adjacent should be required by law to have geothermal underneath it.

Any new stand alone residential construction should be assesed for geothermal usage.  If the contractor fails to provide that option to a homeowner, they should be fined.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 23:59 | 726892 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

"Any new commercial or multifamily construction that has a parking lot adjacent should be required by law to have geothermal underneath it."

 

Oh yeah, even the roads and interstate HWY system should have geothermal underneath it, "by law".

 

LMAO

 

You should be fined, immediately, "by law".

 

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 19:20 | 726530 trav7777
trav7777's picture

and what do we use to build and install all of this shit?  What powers all the tractors and factories to build all of this?

You cornucopians with your silly thoughts about how we can "replace" oil need to wake up.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 03:14 | 727050 fxrxexexdxoxmx
fxrxexexdxoxmx's picture

Racist.

What makes you think 100,000 really determined illegals can not do the work of any of them thare machines?

 

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:58 | 726405 Peak Everything
Peak Everything's picture

Yep. It's all about surplus wealth which is the wealth we are able to generate above and beyond that which we need to survive (food, shelter). Fossil energy has enabled us to generate a lot of surplus wealth. Declining fossil energy means declining surplus wealth.

Capitalism, communism, socialism, fiat money. gold standard, fractional reserve banking, etc. etc. are all different means of dividing up surplus wealth and/or rewarding the creation of surplus wealth. The only thing that really matters is the net energy available to generate surplus wealth. Everything else is fluffy froth.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 19:01 | 726491 flattrader
flattrader's picture

We hit Peak Stupid on ZH not that long ago.

Unfortunately, I don't see a decline in the use of stupid.  Unlike energy, it seems to be freely available at low to no cost.

Completely behind you re: the energy argument.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 19:38 | 726557 Fractured Space
Fractured Space's picture

Excess energy could be defined in BTU's or other means of accounting. I agree with the basic tenets of these arguments, but how to implement? Perhaps if the government wanted to directly issue currency as a reward as suggested in this film, it should only issue contracts to vendors who can provide perpetual increases in efficiency. Evaluating the Carnot limit of certain devices the gov't uses daily would be easy enough to calculate, and could spurn growth and innovation again. The magic bullet of Fusion would be a massive achievement and would separate man from the earthly binds of coal and oil, but our best minds are not present or are not able to solve these issues. Waxing a little long term, Perhaps if you want a PhD in the advance sciences the US gov't should pay for it?? (I just startled the bee's nest there, so I will digress)

Electricity won't make you happy though, and forget about long term storage (as of today). The material world in which we all live cannot be ignored or written off. Bullion Beans Beer Blankets Bullets and Beef of how ever you like to stock your stores are real goods. One should not rest on their laurels, and perhaps the image of gold represents such, as sitting on timeless stores of value. I think this is truly the dichotomy of what hampers us today, between efficiency and timeless value.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 19:11 | 726509 VK
VK's picture

Howard T Odum had solutions and so did M King Hubbert. Steady state economics linked to natural resources and planetary limits.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 19:21 | 726535 trav7777
trav7777's picture

YES.

But nobody is having this discussion.

All we do is listen to bullshit about how we need to end the Fed or go to gold standards or cut the spending and put all the criminals in jail and then we can just go merrily back to the 'way things were' which means perpetual upward growth to infinity!

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 20:06 | 726605 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

Trav, you're absolutely correct, these last few post of yours, dead on.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 20:26 | 726626 Frank Owen
Frank Owen's picture

All we do is listen to bullshit about how we need to end the Fed or go to gold standards or cut the spending and put all the criminals in jail and then we can just go merrily back to the 'way things were' which means perpetual upward growth to infinity!

I must be missing something here, because I would have thought the endless growth provided by our financial system is what has allowed us to to ignore things such as peak resources. Also, I doubt that most people who read this site advocate perpetual upward growth... I might be wrong, but I thought the whole gold thing was about limiting out of control growth? And... how are we going to face-up to reality if we keep the same charlatans in who have perpetuated the myths that everything is going to be alright as long as we keep sweeping the shit under the rug? You think we're going to get to "steady state economics linked to natural resources" without getting rid of the assholes who are lying to us? Come-on now.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 19:47 | 726573 Fraud-Esq
Fraud-Esq's picture

But, you can't even have efficiencies or a descent life with slowing growth while the system is corrupt. We can better handle any scenario (growth or not) after fraud, control fraud, and perverse incentives are PUNISHED and rooted out of the system. 

We can't even have productive thought when the plutocracy is corrupt and compromised. That's why even our general direction is flawed. We're too corrupt to address a crisis caused by corruption.  

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 20:42 | 726643 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

Jesus Trav you are way too negative for my taste - I agree completly that we have a crisis both financial , economic and spiritual due to peak oil and the subsequent stagnation of credit but surely a different economic system of zero interest money for capital creation and high interest for consumption can turn this ship around.

 

You have given up before they have even tried a new economic system - that is just not rational.

The reason to despair is that our leaders continue to bang our heads on a brick wall while they whisper sweet lullabies in our ears

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 00:22 | 726919 wake the roach
wake the roach's picture

Dork, the crux of the problem is that the only economic system compatible with resource limits is one which does not depend upon profit as its means of energy/resource allocation.

Adding surplus energy value to the goods and services we produce above the energy embodied equals infinite growth, period. Like growth in anything it is dependent upon consuming more energy either from increasing the rate of extraction from the environment, or by increasing the work efficiency of each extracted unit. As both means are impossible to do infinitely, the profit system must go. Making a profit is making a claim on energy that does not exist (embodied in assets of tradable value) at that point of time within an economy. Profit is credit, a claim upon future value that may or may not ever exist. The only model for a future world economy is one of equal global energy unit incomes, freely distributed and differing according to need. Ie, All workers have a set energy income, pensioners, students etc. Every nation receives an equal per capita share of the global pie. Does this sound like an idea we are ready to accept? To me, no fucking way... Its too communist, socialist, technocratic, whatever. Only when mankind has suffered will we wake up to the reality and throw away the constraints of subjective labels. Only when we have nothing left to lose, no fear. Profit must end, there is no other choice. The only good news is that if/when it ever does happen, it will be the birth of a new era of wealth most people never dared to imagine possible. We have the information, computing and production technology to do this NOW and with energy and with amazing resource efficiency. As one example, imagine one universal television design. Produced from just a few global factories and distributed freely, designed to be repairable, upgradable and recyclable. How much energy, resource and waste efficiency could be gained from just that. Think about it and apply it to all production. Add to this that every job that can be automated allows man more time to pursue whatever it is makes him happy. That is our only future ;-)...  

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 01:49 | 726999 Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

Bulls_Fucking_Eye

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 02:51 | 727022 Dantzler
Dantzler's picture

Would you elaborate more on the "profit must end" juxtaposed with "birth of a new era of wealth".

Without profit, why would I be motivated to produce one of these TVs you describe? Mandate? Subsidy? Philanthropy?

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 03:20 | 727060 fxrxexexdxoxmx
fxrxexexdxoxmx's picture

As one example, imagine one universal television design. Produced from just a few global factories and distributed freely, designed to be repairable, upgradable and recyclable

 

And then we could just one place where the information that is shown on these sets come from. One idea, one thought one dream.

Oceania hates you.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 07:48 | 727207 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

Well I have a simpler solution  - goverment can provide zero interest fiat for energy capital creation and effeciencey projects while the private banking system (now 100% reserve) can remain engaged in the consumption sphere of the economy provided that they take risks and therefore they will be compelled to charge high interest loans on their own money.

This simple act will transform the economy with credit increases of perhaps 2% a year coming from goverment sourses.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 08:25 | 727228 goldsaver
goldsaver's picture

Making a profit is making a claim on energy that does not exist (embodied in assets of tradable value) at that point of time within an economy. 

Hmm, but if my profit comes in the form of goods that have already been produced, how is that credit again? Notice I didnt say fiat, I said goods.

The only model for a future world economy is one of equal global energy unit incomes, freely distributed and differing according to need. Ie, All workers have a set energy income, pensioners, students etc. Every nation receives an equal per capita share of the global pie.

Koombaya my Lord, Kumbaya....oops sorry , I got distracted in the love in. To each according to his needs and from each according to his ability.... where have I heard that before?

 To me, no fucking way... Its too communist, socialist, technocratic, whatever. Only when mankind has suffered will we wake up to the reality and throw away the constraints of subjective labels.

Yeah, those pesky labels that allows us to identify things. Like moron, and retard and socialistic boob or useful idiot...

As one example, imagine one universal television design. Produced from just a few global factories and distributed freely, designed to be repairable, upgradable and recyclable

Yes, and to save time it will be tuned to only one channel. And to make sure your mind is not polluted it will be a government channel and to make sure that you are happy Big Brother will be watching you thru it. Just for your own good you see..

How much energy, resource and waste efficiency could be gained from just that. Think about it and apply it to all production.

And why would anyone ever need to invent or discover anything new. That is such a waste of energy. And after all there are too many people in the planet so, for your own good we are going to have to put you down at age 30. Or if you are handicapped. Or ugly...

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 21:54 | 726788 samsara
samsara's picture

Thanks Trav.

<Snip>

AGAIN.

If oil has peaked, aggregate energy supply has peaked, EROI is declining to unity.

<Snip>

Debt money is collapsing SIMPLY because the future DOES NOT CONTAIN GROWTH.

 

Unless you understand that the net energy from Petroleum(EROEI) is going down,  One's picture of the financial future is distorted.

BTW,  Make sure to catch Richard Heinberg's piece;

 The End of Growth 

by Richard Heinberg

,SNIP>

The “growth” we are talking about consists of the expansion of the overall size of the economy (with more people being served and more money changing hands) and of the quantities of energy and material goods flowing through it.

The economic crisis that began in 2007-2008 was both foreseeable and inevitable, and it marks a permanent, fundamental break from past decades—a period during which most economists adopted the unrealistic view that perpetual economic growth is necessary and also possible to achieve. There are now fundamental barriers to ongoing economic expansion, and the world is colliding with those barriers.

<Snip>

http://www.energybulletin.net/stories/2010-11-12/end-growth

 

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 07:21 | 727190 anvILL
anvILL's picture

>FOCUS your time and efforts on the achievement of increased energy supply and not kvetching over irrelevancies.
I totally agree on this statement.
However, wouldn't it make sense to let the brains drain from the financial industry to get people focused on doing something more productive , such as solving (or at least trying to solve) energy issues or creating a plan of abandoning the earth and going into a journey into space after inventing a teleporter, before we focus on peak everything?
As long as there are financial issues lingering around, there will be people who will be focused on ending the fed, gold standard, etc. and Trav, I'm pretty sure that you are smart enough to know that many people can't focus on two things at a time.
Of course it would be ideal if everyone can tackle two issues at once, but I think that is a reality that can't be altered.

But on the other hand, there are some that can see the reality so keep your great posts going!

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 11:19 | 727496 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

6 junks for saying that the worlds model for transpo costs is 400% lite on the lite side...

 

Try as you may, the same idiots junking you... out number you and vote.

 

Which is to say that we (you and me) are FUCKED!

 

Be well Travis and My best to You and Yours Buddy, JW

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:04 | 726324 Bankster Bug
Bankster Bug's picture

The American People Can Close the Fed, Demand United States Notes
Freedom League

When Congress borrows money on the credit of the United States, bonds are thus legislated into existence and deposited as credit entries in Federal Reserve banks. United States bonds, bills and notes constitute money as affirmed by the Supreme Court (Legal Tender Cases, 110 U.S. 421), and this money when deposited with the Fed becomes collateral from whence the Treasury may write checks against the credit thus created in its account (12 USC 391). For example, suppose Congress appropriates an expenditure of $1 billion.

To finance the appropriation Congress creates the $1 billion worth of bonds out of thin air and deposits it with the privately owned Federal Reserve System. Upon receiving the bonds, the Fed credits $1 billion to the Treasury's checking account, holding the deposited bonds as collateral. When the United States deposits its bonds with the Federal Reserve System, private credit is extended to the Treasury by the Fed. Under its power to borrow money, Congress is authorized by the Constitution to contract debt, and whenever something is borrowed it must be returned. When Congress spends the contracted private credit, each use of credit is debt which must be returned to the lender or Fed. Since Congress authorizes the expenditure of this private credit, the United States incurs the primary obligation to return the borrowed credit, creating a National Debt which results when credit is not returned.

However, if anyone else accepts this private credit and uses it to purchase goods and services, the user voluntarily incurs the obligation requiring him to make a return of income whereby a portion of the income is collected by the IRS and delivered to the Federal Reserve banksters.

Actually the federal income tax imparts two separate obligations: the obligation to file a return and the obligation to abide by the Internal Revenue Code. The obligation to make a return of income for using private credit is recognized in law as an irrecusable obligation, which according to 'Bouvier's Law Dictionary' (1914 ed.), is "a term used to indicate a certain class of contractual obligations recognized by the law which are imposed upon a person without his consent and without regard to any act of his own."

This is distinguished from a recusable obligation which, according to Bouvier, arises from a voluntary act by which one incurs the obligation imposed by the operation of law. The voluntary use of private credit is the condition precedent which imposes the irrecusable obligation to file a tax return. If private credit is not used or rejected, then the operation of law which imposes the irrecusable obligation lies dormant and cannot apply.

In 'Brushaber v. Union Pacific RR Co.' 240 U.S. 1 (1916) the Supreme Court affirmed that the federal income tax is in the class of indirect taxes, which include duties and excises. The personal income tax arises from a duty -- i.e., charge or fee -- which is voluntarily incurred and subject to the rule of uniformity. A charge is a duty or obligation, binding upon him who enters into it, which may be removed or taken away by a discharge (performance): 'Bouvier', p. 459.

Our federal personal income tax is not really a tax in the ordinary sense of the word but rather a burden or obligation which the taxpayer voluntarily assumes, and the burden of the tax falls upon those who voluntarily use private credit. Simply stated the tax imposed is a charge or fee upon the use of private credit where the amount of private credit used measures the pecuniary obligation.

The personal income tax provision of the Internal Revenue Code is private law rather than public law. "A private law is one which is confined to particular individuals, associations, or corporations": 50 Am.Jur. 12, p.28. In the instant case the revenue code pertains to taxpayers. A private law can be enforced by a court of competent jurisdiction when statutes for its enforcement are enacted: 20 Am.Jur. 33, pgs. 58, 59.

The distinction between public and private acts is not always sharply defined when published statutes are printed in their final form: Case v. Kelly, 133 U.S. 21 (1890). Statutes creating corporations are private acts: 20 Am.Jur. 35, p. 60. In this connection, the Federal Reserve Act is private law. Federal Reserve banks derive their existence and corporate power from the Federal Reserve Act: Armano v. Federal Reserve Bank, 468 F.Supp. 674 (1979).

A private act may be published as a public law when the general public is afforded the opportunity of participating in the operation of the private law. The Internal Revenue Code is an example of private law which does not exclude the voluntary participation of the general public. Had the Internal Revenue Code been written as substantive public law, the code would be repugnant to the Constitution, since no one could be compelled to file a return and thereby become a witness against himself.

Under the fifty titles listed on the preface page of the United States Code, the Internal Revenue Code (26 USC) is listed as having not been enacted as substantive public law, conceding that the Internal Revenue Code is private law. Bouvier declares that private law "relates to private matters which do not concern the public at large."

It is the VOLUNTARY use of private credit which imposes upon the user the quasi contractual or implied obligation to make a return of income. In 'Pollock v. Farmer's Loan & Trust Co.' 158 U.S. 601 (1895) the Supreme Court had declared the income tax of 1894 to be repugnant to the Constitution, holding that taxation of rents, wages and salaries must conform to the rule of apportionment.

However, when this decision was rendered, there was no privately owned central bank issuing private credit and currency but rather public money in the form of legal tender notes and coins of the United States circulated. Public money is the lawful money of the United States which the Constitution authorizes Congress to issue, conferring a property right, whereas the private credit issued by the Fed is neither money nor property, permitting the user an equitable interest but denying Allodial title.

Today, we have two competing monetary systems. The Federal Reserve System with its private credit and currency, and the public money system consisting of legal tender United States notes and coins.

One could use the public money system, paying all bills with coins and United States notes (if the notes can be obtained), or one could voluntarily use the private credit system and thereby incur the obligation to make a return of income. Under 26 USC 7609 the IRS has carte blanche authority to summon and investigate bank records for the purpose of determining tax liabilities or discovering unknown taxpayers: 'United States v. Berg' 636 F.2d 203 (1980).

If an investigation of bank records discloses an excess of $1000 in deposits in a single year, the IRS may accept this as prima facie evidence that the account holder uses private credit and is therefore a person obligated to make a return of income. Anyone who uses private credit -- e.g., bank accounts, credit cards, mortgages, etc. -- voluntarily plugs himself into the system and obligates himself to file. A taxpayer is allowed to claim a $1000 personal deduction when filing his return. The average taxpayer in the course of a year uses United States coins in vending machines, parking meters, small change, etc., and this public money must be deducted when computing the charge for using private credit.

On June 5, 1933, the day of infamy arrived. Congress on that date enacted House Joint Resolution 192, which provided that the people convert or turn in their gold coins in exchange for Federal Reserve notes. Through the operation of law, H.J.R. 192 took us off the gold standard and placed us on the dollar standard where the dollar could be manipulated by private interests for their self-serving benefit. By this single act the people and their wealth were delivered to the banksters. When gold coinage was thus pulled out of circulation, large denomination Federal Reserve notes were issued to fill the void. As a consequence the public money supply in circulation was greatly diminished, and the debt-laden private credit of the Fed gained supremacy.

This action made private individuals who had been previously exempt from federal income taxes now liable for them, since the general public began consuming and using large amounts of private credit. Notice all the case law prior to 1933 which affirms that income is a profit or gain which arises from a government granted privilege. After 1933, however, the case law no longer emphatically declares that income is exclusively corporate profit or that it arises from a privilege. So, what changed? Two years after H.J.R. 192, Congress passed the Social Security Act, which the Supreme Court upheld as a valid act imposing a valid income tax: 'Charles C. Steward Mach. Co. v, Davis' 301 U.S. 548 (1937).

It is no accident that the United States is without a dollar unit coin. In recent years the Eisenhower dollar coin received widespread acceptance, but the Treasury minted them in limited number which encouraged hoarding. This same fate befell the Kennedy half dollars, which circulated as silver sandwiched clads between 1965-1969 and were hoarded for their intrinsic value and not spent. Next came the Susan B. Anthony dollar, an awkward coin which was instantly rejected as planned. The remaining unit is the privately issued Federal Reserve note unit dollar with no viable competitors. Back in 1935 the Fed had persuaded the Treasury to discontinue minting silver dollars because the public preferred them over dollar bills. That the public money system has become awkward, discouraging its use, is no accident. It was planned that way.

A major purpose behind the 16th Amendment was to give Congress authority to enforce private law collections of revenue. Congress had the plenary power to collect income taxes arising from government granted privileges long before the 16th Amendment was deemed ratified, and the amendment was unnecessary, except to give Congress the added power to enforce collections under private law: i.e., income from whatever source.

So, the Fed got its amendment and its private income tax, which is a bankster's dream but a nightmare for everyone else. Through the combined operation of the Fed and H.J.R. 192, the United States pays exorbitant interest whenever it uses its own money deposited with the Fed, and the people pay outrageous income taxes for the privilege of living and working in their own country, robbed of their wealth and separated from their rights, laboring under a tax system written by a cabal of loan shark banksters and rubber stamped by a spineless Congress.

Congress has the power to abolish the Federal Reserve System and thus destroy the private credit system. However, the people have it within their power to strip the Fed of its powers, rescind private credit and get the banksters to pay off the National Debt should Congress fail to act.

The key to all this is 12 USC 411, which declares that Federal Reserve notes shall be redeemed in lawful money at any Federal Reserve bank. Lawful money is defined as all the coins, notes, bills, bonds and securities of the United States: 'Julliard v. Greenman' 110 U.S. 421, 448 (1884); whereas public money is the lawful money declared by Congress as a legal tender for debts (31 USC 5103); 524 F.2d 629 (1974).

Anyone can present Federal Reserve notes to any Federal Reserve bank and demand redemption in public money -- i.e., legal tender United States notes and coins. A Federal Reserve note is a fixed obligation or evidence of indebtedness which pledges redemption (12 USC 411) in public money to the note holder.

The Fed maintains a ready supply of United States notes in hundred dollar denominations for redemption purposes should it be required, and coins are available to satisfy claims for smaller amounts. However, should the general public decide to redeem large amounts of private credit for public money, a financial melt-down within the Fed would quickly occur.

The process works like this. Suppose $1000 in Federal Reserve notes are presented for redemption in public money. To raise $1000 in public money the Fed must surrender U.S. Bonds in that amount to the Treasury in exchange for the public money demanded (assuming that the Fed had no public money on hand). In so doing $1000 of the National Debt would be paid off by the Fed and thus canceled.

Can you imagine the result if large amounts of Federal Reserve notes were redeemed on a regular, ongoing basis? Private credit would be withdrawn from circulation and replaced with public money, and with each turning of the screw the Fed would be obliged to pay off more of the National Debt. Should the Fed refuse to redeem its notes in public money, then the fiction that private credit is used voluntarily would become unsustainable.

If the use of private credit becomes compulsory, then the obligation to make a return of income is voided.

If the Fed is under no obligation to redeem its notes, then no one has an obligation to make a return of income.

It is that simple! Federal Reserve notes are not money and cannot be tendered when money is demanded: 105 So. 305 (1925). Moreover, the Ninth Circuit rejected the argument that a $50 Federal Reserve note be redeemed in gold or silver coin after specie coinage had been rescinded but upheld the right of the note holder to redeem his note in current public money (31 USC 392; rev., 5103): 524 F.2d 629 (1974); 12 USC 411.

It would be advantageous to close out all bank accounts, acquire a home safe, settle all debts in cash with public money and use U.S. postal money orders for remittances. Whenever a check is received, present it to the bank of issue and demand cash in public money. This will place banks in a vulnerable position, forcing them to draw off their assets. Through their insatiable greed, banksters have over extended, making banks quite illiquid.

Should the people suddenly demand public money for their deposits and for checks received, many banks will collapse and be foreclosed by those demanding public money. Banks by their very nature are citadels of usury and sin, and the most patriotic service one could perform is to obligate banksters to redeem private credit.

When the first Federal Reserve note is presented to the Fed for redemption, the process of ousting the private credit system will commence and will not end until the Fed and the bankstering system nurtured by it collapse. Coins comprise less than five percent of the currency, and current law limits the amount of United States notes in circulation to $300 million (31 USC 5115).

The private credit system is exceedingly over extended compared with the supply of public money, and a small minority working in concert can easily collapse the private credit system and oust the Fed by demanding redemption of private credit. If the Fed disappeared tomorrow, income taxes on wages and salaries would vanish with it. Moreover, the States are precluded from taxing United States notes: 4 Wheat. 316.

According to Bouvier, public money is the money which Congress can tax for public purposes mandated by the Constitution. Private credit when collected in revenue can fund programs and be spent for purposes not cognizable by the Constitution.

We have in effect two competing governments: the United States Government and the Federal Government (Corp. US). The first is the government of the people, whereas the Federal Government/Corp US is founded upon private law and funded by private credit.

What we really have is private government. Federal agencies and activities funded by the private credit system include Social Security, bail out loans to banksters via the IMF, bail out loans to Chrysler, loans to students, FDIC, FBI, supporting the U.N., foreign aid, funding undeclared wars, etc., all of which would be unsustainable if funded by taxes raised pursuant to the Constitution.

The personal income tax is not a true tax but rather an obligation or burden which is voluntarily assumed, since revenue is raised through voluntary contributions and can be spent for purposes unknown to the Constitution.

Notice how the IRS declares in its publications that everyone is expected to contribute his fair share. True taxes must be spent for public purposes which the Constitution recognizes. Taxation for the purpose of giving or loaning money to private business enterprises and individuals is illegal: 15 Am.Rep. 39; Cooley, 'Prin. Const. Law', ch. IV.

Revenue derived from the federal income tax goes into a private slush fund raised from voluntary contributions, and Congress is not restricted by the Constitution when spending or disbursing the proceeds from this private fund.

It is incorrect to say that the personal federal income tax is unconstitutional, since the tax code is private law and resides outside the Constitution.

The Internal Revenue Code is non-constitutional because it enforces an obligation which is voluntarily incurred through an act of the individual who binds himself. Fighting the Internal Revenue Code on constitutional grounds is wasted energy.

The way to bring it all down is to attack the Federal Reserve System and its banking cohorts by demanding that private credit be redeemed, or by convincing Congress to abolish the Fed.

Never forget that private credit is funding the destruction of our country.

 

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 19:08 | 726505 Rusty Shorts
Sun, 11/14/2010 - 20:46 | 726640 robobbob
robobbob's picture

wow

is what this guy saying right?

from the Treasury website

http://www.ustreas.gov/education/faq/currency/legal-tender.shtml#q2

from the Fed reserve website

http://www.federalreserve.gov/aboutthefed/section16.htm

cornell law library

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode12/usc_sec_12_00000411----000-.html

where are the ZH heavy hitters to comment on this?

with a wave of the magic wand, no more Fed, no more IRS, no more SS.

Is this the dirty secret that is supporting all those unconstitutional reaches of the gov?

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 22:10 | 726812 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

 - hello, serendipity reigns !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tr5BbH6X8s

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:06 | 726328 Frank Owen
Frank Owen's picture

I haven't watched Secrets of Oz yet but found The Money Masters great... I hope Bill has chosen not to hold a pen while talking in this newer one... lol

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:33 | 726369 Perpetual Burn
Perpetual Burn's picture

LOL i was thinking the same thing before i watched it. 

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:21 | 726356 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Many layers in the onion.

NSSM-200

http://www.nixonlibrary.gov/virtuallibrary/documents/nssm/nssm_200.pdf

Original Document:

http://wlym.com/text/NSSM200.htm

Someone was pissed off in 2004.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/10059513/Nssm-200Kissinger-Report

Lastly, your breakdown.

http://www.population-security.org/28-APP2.html

Paging Mr. Soros, Mr Gore and Mr Maurice Strong. Your book of fraud is over flowing my toilet.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 20:31 | 726645 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

Pissed in 2004, probably someone over in Prince George's County, it borders Washington D.C. and is the wealthiest county in the U.S. with an African-American majority.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:31 | 726365 Broken Window
Broken Window's picture

Is this another greenbackery nonsense supporting of gov fiat and big wellfarestate funded by keynesian fallacies?

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 22:11 | 726813 shortus cynicus
shortus cynicus's picture

Yes.

Why this movie starts with idea about solving problems of the world? I smell Fabians at work: in general all looks good, but there are some details - typical sheep's skin on a wolf strategy, 

Most important detail is: debt money (as bad as it is) borrowed by government in big quantities vanishes in deep pocket of super wealthy creditors, not creating inflation.

Government printed interest free money would not be stored anywhere fuelling inflation much stronger than debt money, so it would destroy poor and middle class - Fabian's dream in action.

I admit: government money would be much better than debt money with its phony fractional reserve system, but not very much - we have seen it in soviet union block. 

The only serious money is peoples money: anyone must be able to choose currency as any medium a counter party accept. Clear winner would be of course electronic for small transactions, and silver and gold for bigger issues. Precious metals are actually not really controlled by banks and governments, so dangers pointed in the movie are overestimated. It would be freedom for people but constraints for banks AND governments (and bureaucratic Fabians :-). Current computer systems could easily handle all complex accounting and tax payment issues.

So, be aware of this crooks and their ideas miraculously solving problems of humanity.

 

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 23:38 | 726891 tired1
tired1's picture

FWIW, the USSR was maintained by western banks, monies provided to prop up the CMEA through outfits like Iriving Bank & Trust.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:45 | 726382 deagle44
deagle44's picture

Douchinger is in this video therefore it fails.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:50 | 726393 unum mountaineer
unum mountaineer's picture

Remember: It's not what backs the money, it's who controls its quantity.

given to ANY group of men and they will abuse that power absolutely. so what then, give that control to a computer..GASP....skynet. imvho, what backs and who quantiy control should be equally addressed. quit the see-saw games! the fucking boat will take on water every time.

 

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 18:07 | 726416 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture

So don't give it to men.

Give it to the market.

Glad I could clear that up for you.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:52 | 726395 John McCloy
John McCloy's picture

This film has been out for quite a while but worth watching.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:56 | 726401 SRV - ES339
SRV - ES339's picture

Kudos to Bill for putting it online for free... well worth the time to check it out... and yes, the evil ballpoint has been retired!

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 18:25 | 726438 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

This guy confuses a gold standard with bad finance and authoritarian oppression.  He just says "look at these guys.  They had a gold standard in rome, and look at them now.  They are all dead".  He makes no logical connection between using PMs as money and the consquences he outlines. 

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 18:25 | 726439 mauistroker
mauistroker's picture

Thanks 'trav7777' and 'peakeverything'. Right on the money comments. For those who need more 'help' understanding this predicament, check

http://www.holon.se/folke/kurs/logexp/logexp_en.shtml

 

Simple. Elegant. Says it all really. The connection between money and energy is profound. Debt, retirement, banks, money, macroeconomics, etc, etc....all total fucking bullshit in a declining energy world.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 20:39 | 726653 Rusty Shorts
Sun, 11/14/2010 - 23:30 | 726884 trav7777
trav7777's picture

not gonna happen that way.

This guy needs to recognize that extinctions may take place in a geological instant but they do not take place in a human instant.  The major dieoffs like the precambrian occurred over 100,000 years.  In geological time, this is nearly instantaneous, which is why the dieoff is considered an "event."  But that's longer than human history.

Sure, if our population decreases like it increased during the fossil fuel age, it will seem instantaneous to a future being writing the history text.  But the real process will involve as much time down as up.  There's not going to be a "day" in which the economy freaking collapses.  We are IN the collapse as we speak.  It is like the tides, it doesn't occur in real time as quickly as it takes to read the paragraph about it in the history books.

Even a true rapid collapse like Weimar or Serbia took years.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 00:24 | 726945 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

Trav, we are going to see a very special time in the history of Man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF4i7JEOzzM

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 01:04 | 726973 Red Neck Repugnicant
Red Neck Repugnicant's picture

The major dieoffs like the precambrian occurred over 100,000 years

Bullshit!  How could it occur over 100,000 years if the Earth is only 6,000 years old?  Did the dinosaurs take a spaceship from Mars?

Palin/Bible/Republicans 2012

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 22:35 | 726832 trav7777
trav7777's picture

100% right.  no clue how many freakin recitations of this people are gonna need before they wake up and get it.

Or, they can just live in denial that if we just "prosecute" every freakin jew on the street that magically the good times will roll again.

How we have squandered our oil bounty is a crime against humanity.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 01:05 | 726975 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

The connection between money and energy is profound.

 

Agreed. What is money, but a representation (or measure) of value created by the effort of the mind? The bushel of wheat does nobody a damned bit of good, unless the effort is put forth to pluck it from the ground.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 18:28 | 726442 AUD
AUD's picture

"It's not what backs the money, it's who controls its quantity."

Does Bill Still work for the Federal Reserve? This is the biggest load of tripe ever, the quantity theory of money and just what the government wants you to believe, that they can control the value of the dollar at the flick of a switch.

I'm surprised ZH put this shit up. Bill Still is a rat rooter.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 18:42 | 726454 iconoclast63
iconoclast63's picture

The idea that government can print money and spend it into the economy is not, necessarily, inflationary. Open your minds people! What causes inflation is too many dollars chasing too few goods and services. Provided that government does not print too much, then the value of the currency will remain stable. It's that simple.

Furthermore, without using debt based money, the necessary exponential economic growth into infinity is lessened or alleviated all together.

The idea that economies must grow forever is driven by the fact that bank created debt-based money carries the burden of interest. No debt money, no interest payments, economies stabilize, economists become unnecessary.

Money can and should be plentiful. Suffering, starvation, and war are all outcroppings of the idea that money is scarce. Why replace one scarce commodity with another? Does that really make sense to any of you?

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 19:04 | 726497 Shameful
Shameful's picture

"Provided that government does not print too much, then the value of the currency will remain stable."

Yeah and provided that gravity is not that strong I would be able to slam dunk from half court.

Govs will print and debase because politicians make promises to get elected.  To stay in power they have to toss out "freebies" to the masses.  The mass don't like direct taxation, enter indirect taxation aka inflation.  The only way this could work is under an autocratic system, say a monarchy.  Where the monarch would have a vested interest in keeping his currency on par, and even then problems occur.  John Law for example.

"Suffering, starvation, and war are all outcroppings of the idea that money is scarce."

Ah printing money does not make any more food grow or any more oil get pumped.  If it did Zimbabwe would be a wonderland.  I daresay that money was plentiful there!

The only reason to have sound money is to prevent the gov from debasing it.  By having no sound money it's assured the money will become debased.  Now maybe the people who benefit from the debasement change from the ones in the current system, but the debasement remains.

Short answer.  Private Banks prints money = Shameful keeps savings in hard assets.  "Democratic" government prints money = Shameful keeps savings in had assets.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 19:47 | 726571 iconoclast63
iconoclast63's picture

Your arguments are Shameful!!!

If politicians DID print too much, well that would be OUR fault, would it not? Bankers have been using this same argument for centuries and it's STUPID! The politicians are already printing too much money but they are borrowing it and paying interest to YOUR FRIENDS, the banksters!!

There are several proposals towards the end of the movie which address the incessant shrieking of the anti-greenbackers and unless/until you open your mind and take the time to listen your voice is nothing but a fart in a wind storm.

The Zimbabwe comment was truly a gem. How could my comment speak to limits in the amount of currency while at the same time endorse hyper-inflation and counterfeiting?

As a first step I would like to see Ron Paul's idea of legalizing competing currencies. Along with the outright prohibition of fractional reserve banking all together, this would set the stage for a mass experiment by the people who would, in the end, choose their favorite form of money with their pocketbooks.

A "sound" money is a stable money, nothing more.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 20:09 | 726601 Fraud-Esq
Fraud-Esq's picture

I agree. He fails to mention that PRIVATE banks have created uncountable dollars for two decades. Why don't they ever mention PRIVATE dollar creation?

It's amazing to me to people are so ready to give bank cartels such an amazing power. The ones who chime in only when Gov is discussed are using stock banks arguments as old as money itself. The whole history of money is the friction between private and public rights. 

Those who attack government right without even NOTING the private banks failures (corresponding with mass social failures) are missing the other HALF of the argument and appear blind to PRESENT FACTS, IMHO.

We just had an experiment with private cartel dollar creation and mass credit and multiplier affect. IT FAILED. It ended in misery. Had the free market been employed at the tail end of a rigged, it would have wiped out EVERYTHING. They're still alive simply because we decided to throw a little more fraud after a lot of fraud, to let this thing down easy, so they think.

Had the Free Market been imposed after 2008, we'd probably have Labor Notes and Greenbacks today. The banks and frauds are saving themselves from raw logic.  

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 20:25 | 726629 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Nice ad-homin.  I'm not for any money creation.  I'm for money being a tangible thing so it cannot be debased by anyone to enrich themselves.  Lashing me to another fiat system and then inflating my value away is not good no matter who is doing it or for what reason.  Theft is theft.

Just because I don't believe in your magical pixie land where politics are wise good stewards does not mean I think I should be pillaged by private bankers.  I don't want to be pillaged by private bankers or public politicians, thanks.

What your basically saying it "It's wrong that Guy X is robbing us!  If Guy Y was robbing us things would be so much better"  I know how about no more robbery!

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 20:38 | 726652 Fraud-Esq
Fraud-Esq's picture

Yes, if we destroy ourselves, I'm much more at peace with that! 

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 20:49 | 726668 Shameful
Shameful's picture

The end is no different.  The looter wears a different mask.  And really it's not like we as individuals have control over the vote.  So it's not me destroying myself if I vote against the two party system.  They figured out a way to con the masses.  It's no better if you or someone else steers the Titanic into the iceberg, the result is the same. 

And I don't feel like busting my ass to change a system when the ends result of a new system is the same as the old one.  I'd rather kick back and enjoy my free time if I know my efforts, even if successful, will damn me to the same fate.  Hard to motivate people on that front.

"Don't run!  You'll only die tired!"

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 20:21 | 726624 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Our fault? In our society if 51% wished to rob and impoverish 49% it can be done.  Is that the fault of the 49%?  The politicians only need to get a simple voting majority, and they will get it by acting like Santa.  "Vote for me and I'll give you free stuff!".

Tell me friend, would you trust Pelosi with the printing press?  Or perhaps George W. Bush, or Dick Cheney, or Barry Sotero?  All elected reps all addicted to wild spending.  And how will we get accountability?  Government could not be more opaque, we did not vote for this opaqueness, but in our 1 party system it is almost unavoidable.  Since we cannot elect real leaders who will bring real change how will changing who prints the money be different to those who foolishly try to save in the currency?

Also seems to me we had pretty brutal inflation in the Union during the Civil War, would prefer that not to be a standard occurrence.

I'm all for treating fractional reserve banking for the fraud that it is and having competing currencies.  But I can assure you the currency that the gov has the press for will be printed into infinity over a long enough timeline.  History is full of places where it has been tried and ruin has resulted.  And paper money could be stable but it's the nature of politics to use inflation to pay for their projects.  It would be like asking an elephant to fly, sure the elephant might want to but it's just not going to happen.  You can't change the nature of man, and in this system I would still hold onto my hard assets the way I hold onto them in this system because the end is the same.  The people who benefit along the way may change but man's nature does not change.  Buying votes goes back the ancient Greece.

Well I take that back I suppose if a law was passed that any printing of money past the base amount would result in the hanging of all politicians in all branches of government then maybe there would be no printing.  You get that law passed and I'm on board!

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 20:46 | 726662 Fraud-Esq
Fraud-Esq's picture

Sure, empires end. But - did they end because they printed too much money or because they ran out of fundamentals to support the paper? 

I'd argue they ran out of fundamentals which then manifested itself in currency. 

But - look at our recent 08 case. We weren't exactly an empire ready to fall in 2008, no matter what people say. The avarice and fraud of our plutocrats, using PRIVATE BANKING, did us in, with control fraud within our MAJOR banking institutions and their direct affiliates.

That's why I argue that a Greenback isn't enough. That's why I argue we could even withstand a hobbled Federal Reserve if we put the clamps on banks. 

When Banks = Utilities, we'll be in far better shape.

 

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 20:56 | 726685 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Printing the paper itself is immoral.  It's theft!  Theft is never right.  Once you morally accept that theft is ok in some cases where does it end? Just because you can support theft does not make it morally right.

You're against the theft being done by the private banks.  Cool me to.  I'm just not for theft done in the name of the public.  I don't care who steals my money, because ultimately I don't have it!  So I don't care if its some story about widows and orphans robbing me or guys in 10k suits, I'm against being robbed.

No one should have the right to print and force someone to accept it under legal tender laws.  If you are cool with fiat paper competing against gold, cool me to.  And fait paper will lose.

I'm all for reigning in the banks.  But it has to start by not allowing them to commit open fraud through the fractional system.  And imagine how much harder it would be if they actually had to have a real tangible thing to pay out, like gold, and not just paper they can get from presses.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 00:22 | 726941 iconoclast63
iconoclast63's picture

The Monetary Reform Act lays out in detail how to transist from debt-based fiat to debt free fiat. It creates a 4th branch of government tasked with managing the new debt free currency. This 4th branch publishes, in detail, monetary aggregates in real time and stays within the limits of new issuance according to the act. If the creation of new money outpaces economic growth the pace of monetary growth is slowed. If the amount of new money created stays within pace of growth then ....... wait for it ..... wait for it .... THERE IS NO INFLATION!!!!! Get it? No inflation means NO THEFT, which means it's NOT IMMORAL!!!

These arguments about human nature being inclined to debase currency come from extreme examples of outright counterfeiting by enemies or cases of extreme emergencies like wars. The Weimar example is of no use because it was largely the biggest banks and corporations in Germany that insisted the printing presses keep pumping out the money.

Open your mind dude.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 01:40 | 726990 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

human nature IS EVERYTHING. It is the biggest reason the United States was originally constructed as it was...to be a check on human nature.

You are flatly missing, as Keynes did, the desire of politicians, a class of largely unproductive leeches, who want everybody to love them, and who will resort to vote buying if necessary as a means to that sole end.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 01:42 | 726992 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Printing money is stealing value from the old. Deflation should be the norm not some mythical monster trotted out to scare the ill informed. Deflation sure didn't kill America before the Fed Reserve did it? Money should be appreciating as productivity increases. You are robbing those increases. So why work harder if I know this new 4th branch will just take it from me?

They get teh privilege of printing the new money and spending it into existence and diluting the old money supply. Great if you are the first to get to spend it, crappy deal for all us working suckers.

And you are 100% off base about only a few regime printing. Show me one that did not. Find me 1 nation on earth today that does now, or did not have a history of coin clipping. You say it's rare, I challenge you to find a single example where they don't.

I'll totally open my mind if I'm named chief money printer and get to be the one debasing. A fleet of Italian sports cars and private jets would put my mind at ease :) Documents mean nothing. According to the Constitution only gold and silver will be money, yeah kinda ignoring that document aren't we?

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 01:23 | 726983 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Um, call me stupid, but it seems "running out of fundamentals to support the paper" = printed too much money.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 01:13 | 726979 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

The problem here is the propensity of humans to sit on their asses on their IKEA sofas, watching TV, and eating cheetos...all produced by others.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 18:47 | 726464 putbuyer
putbuyer's picture

I would rather store gun powder than anything else. Thats my money!

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 01:14 | 726980 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

and that can create energy in a pinch.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 18:53 | 726479 israhole
israhole's picture

Yeah, and exactly WHO does control the supply of money?  They have names.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 19:20 | 726531 Anal Picnic
Anal Picnic's picture

Dude, please! The next thing you're going to tell us is niggers are living proof jews fucked buffalo.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 19:33 | 726552 SWCroaker
SWCroaker's picture

I pray I can one day live in a world where freedom of speech is used in an adult fashion, not because laws exist to deliniate it, but because society has matured to the point where all know that freedom does not go hand in hand with "above consequences".

May someone in your daily life put a pitchfork in your privates, and then twist.  The rest of us will look on with complete lack of concern.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 00:19 | 726936 Frank Owen
Frank Owen's picture

How the fuck do you criticize someone for a retarded racist joke about freedom of speech not being used in an adult fashion and then say "May someone in your daily life put a pitchfork in your privates, and then twist. The rest of us will look on with complete lack of concern."

I find your reply sicker than his initial joke.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 01:44 | 726994 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

I don't often junk people, but the last part of your comment was un-called for. Be the adult of which you speak FFS.

 

Edit: I think that may actually be my first junk

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 19:29 | 726543 Hx3
Hx3's picture

So...by redeeming our FRN's for ~officical~ US Coinage we starve "Private" Debt oblogations by incuring "Public" Debt? AM I reading that right? If so, I'll be taking Coinage out of all my accounts and filling my safe...sounds reasonable to me...

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 19:39 | 726550 Fraud-Esq
Fraud-Esq's picture

The banks argue the government can't fund CONSUMER DEBT at lower interest rates, because the government can't be trusted, it will not be treated as a business.

LMAO! Meanwhile, the banks charge on average nearly 30% on consumer credit card interest, they gave it out like candy MORE than the U.S. gov would have ever been allowed to do. They didn't have the reserves. They lied. 

Look at the result of all the bank lied. These smart banks are insolvent and the people behind them are RICH. That's what you get when you hand over dollar creation to the banks (forget the FRB for a second).

Everyone blames the GOVERNMENT for the big inflation risks, QE2, etc but private banking cartels caused more multiplier dollars in the system than government. It's the PRIVATE BANKS printing that is the biggest danger. The private Reichsbanks caused their inflation too.

Greenspan had a huge advantage with rigged inflation standards and capital flight, where do matter how many dollars they pumped at low rates, it didn't cause "inflation". You should have seen it in the late 90's and 00's, but you didn't. Because the game changed and Greenspan and bankers were MILKING the changed game for every dollar they could get. But, the gov now has the same advantage that Greensspan had.

We should print GREENBACKS and close down the bank cartel. I'm curious if anyone at JP Morgan or Goldman Sachs can actually produce anything for the world. I say we give them their chance, but cutting off all their other options. Blankfein would look great in a lab coat since we're not putting him in jail, we have to change incentives.  

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 19:45 | 726561 Hx3
Hx3's picture

IMHO "Private" and most "Public" Banks are nothing but parasites that produce nothing of real value...and Bernanke/Blankfein should be made "Lab Rat's" for testing in the Cosmetic Industry, as the FED/GS is nothing but "The Glitter Dome"...

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 20:05 | 726600 Implicit simplicit
Implicit simplicit's picture

However it is done, end the fed.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 20:21 | 726625 William F. Dulle
William F. Dulle's picture

The attribution of quotes in the movie was quite strange. Beware, especially, the Franklin quotes.

Also, an appeal to antiquity hardly seems to be a good way of winning an argument. The facts should speak for themselves.

Sorry that they didn't mention that Jackson beat the crap out of his would-be assassin. God I love that guy.

It seems to me that the real reason that we issue money as debt at interest is that it's the cost of doing business internationally, or maybe as this movie alleges, with Europe. And I say: Fuck 'em. The U.S. is uniquely capable of being self-sufficient.

Here's a link to Rockoff(name unsurpassed in awesomeness)'s paper on the Oz symbology: http://cactus.dixie.edu/green/B_Readings/Hugh%20Rockoff%20%20Wizard%20of....

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 20:34 | 726647 Jim B
Jim B's picture

They are pushing a point of view.....

Interesting....  Here is what I got out of it....

Governments don't control the quantity of money, so a central bank is implemented.  The bankers get too much power, then it goes back to government money. Then, the cycle repeats..... LOL

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 20:41 | 726658 djrichard
djrichard's picture

If you want something which corroborates this video with more historical depth to it, see Zarlenga's "The Lost Science of Money" @ http://www.monetary.org/ 

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 21:13 | 726715 metastar
metastar's picture

1) End the Fed

2) Fiat Bitchez!?

3) Campaign/Contribution Finance Reform (No Corporate Influences)

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 21:35 | 726725 Hx3
Hx3's picture

I ~think~ some you/us are missing the point here...the "suttle" difference between the "public/private" obligations in the debt structure and how it effects the fractional boosting scheme? If the "private Sector" is x10 leverage into CDOx2, by drawing our "Public Sector" out of this, do we not impair their "leverage"? No matter...I'm now engaging in my own resistance...I'm drawing down all my accounts in Coinage...if nothing else I'll have a physical metal to use in a smelter...

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 21:56 | 726791 Bill D. Cat
Bill D. Cat's picture

Gore should have invented the internet two thousand years ago .

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 22:04 | 726808 blindman
blindman's picture

this used to be at the end of this video.  i can't imagine

why it was removed,  so here it is back where it belongs.

 Eva Cassidy - Somewhere Over The Rainbow - with lyrics

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMfBKwCBgGI

.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 22:22 | 726822 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

China and the new cold war. Good grief. Not again.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article7017951.ece

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 22:25 | 726826 Cursive
Cursive's picture

Thanks for this!

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 22:50 | 726840 Hx3
Hx3's picture

I ~suggest~ we ALL go to our local branches and withdraw at LEAST 10% of our accounts in "Dollars/Half Dollars/Quarters" it CAN'T HURT RIGHT??? I'll do this Monday and report back the responce I receive... LoL

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