Senator
“Herb” Kohl is the senior senator from the state of Wisconsin. He’s a
democrat. He was first elected to office way back in 1988. Twenty-two
years in the senate comes with some important responsibilities. The good
senator is on the Appropriations, Judiciary, and Banking Committees. He
is the Chairman of both the Special Committee on Aging and the
Agricultural Appropriations Committee.
Bottom line; Herb Kohl has clout in D.C. He is one of
America’s elder statesmen. So when he asks for a favor it’s very hard to
say “no”. I wonder what Tim Geithner is going to do with Herb’s recent
letter asking for a change in the rules for retirement ages for cops and
fireman from the great state of Wisconsin and every other state in the
Union. Here’s what Senator Kohl is asking for:
I ask
that you amend the regulations to make clear that the public safety
employees safe harbor apply to WRS protective occupation participants.
These participants put their lives on the line every day to protect our
citizens and they deserve to retire with full benefits at the ages of 53 and 54.
I’ve got nothing against cops and I’ve always liked fireman. It’s not
that I don’t think this group of people shouldn’t get a leg up. But at
whose expense? What about those nurses, EMT folks, and ER Docs? What
about everyone else?
The country is about to increase the Social Security retirement age and
push back eligibility for Medicare to 67. And Kohl wants to cut the cops
a sweetheart deal where they can retire with full benefits 12 years
before anyone else.
We have two classes of workers in the USA; those that work for
government and those in the private sector. There are two different sets
of rules. The differences are in the number of holidays, benefits (far
superior health care), job security and retirement benefits. Senator
Kohl’s proposal makes the gap even larger.
Senator Kohl needs to understand that America is not the rich country
that it once was. Our states, cities and municipalities simply can no
longer afford the largess proposed by Kohl. The rules that he suggests
are fair and reasonable actually aren’t fair or reasonable at all.
Senator Kohl is not blind. Nor is he uninformed. He must know that a
suggestion like this is going to be received very badly by the folks who
have to pay for it. That said, watch out for this one. Kohl’s clout makes even this proposal a possibility.
It’s an even money bet that this will happen. Special interest politics
is the way of the land these days. But here’s my bet for the Senator: Those cops and fireman who will get this benefit will never see those checks.
The government promises they are relying on will be broken at some
point in the future. America does not have the resources to make these
promises anymore. We will go broke because so many of these special
interest promises have been made.
We can hope and even expect that our political leaders will do the
“right thing” in these difficult times. There is a broad awareness that
everyone is going to have to do a bit more and get a bit less in the New America.
But that does not seem to be the case with this Senator. He is working
against the best interests of the country. In the end, those that he is
trying to curry favor from will be the losers. I suspect the Senator
knows this. He doesn’t care.
The full letter from Senator Kohl to Tim Geithner:
Secretary
United States Department of Treasury
1500 Pennsylvania Avenue
Washington, DC 20220
purpose of this letter is to express my concern regarding the impact
of certain Treasury regulations on the normal retirement age (“NRA”) of
protective occupation participants, including police officers and fire
fighters, in the Wisconsin Retirement System (“WRS”). I ask that you
modify your regulations to ensure that these public safety employees
can maintain their current NRA under the WRS.
2007, the Treasury Department issued final regulations on NRA in
pension plans (the “NRA Regulations”)(1.401(a)-1(b)). NRA is a term
referring to the earliest age at which a pension plan participant can
retire with an unreduced benefit from their plan.
general, the NRA Regulations provide that, “normal retirement age
under a plan must be an age that is not earlier than the earliest age
that is reasonably representative of the typical retirement age for the
industry in which the covered workforce is employed.” The regulations
go on to provide that a NRA of 62 or older would meet this requirement.
However, whether an NRA of ages 55 to 62 meets the general rule would
be based on all of the relevant facts and circumstances - and an NRA
that is less than 55 years is presumed to be unreasonable (unless
determined otherwise by the IRS Commissioner).
the WRS, all state employees are in the same plan. General employees
constitute about 90.7 percent of the plan's active participants - and
protective occupation participants make up about 8.7 percent.
Protective occupation participants under the WRS include those
employees whose principal duties involve active law enforcement or
active fire suppression or prevention, frequent exposure to a high
degree of danger or peril and a high degree of physical conditioning.
Protective occupation participants include police officers and fire
fighters.
NRA for general employees under the WRS is age 65. However, the NRA
age for protective occupation participants in the WRS is age 53 with 25
years of service or age 54 with less than 25 years of service.
the NRA for WRS protective occupation participants is less than 55
years, under the NRA Regulations, there would be a negative presumption
that the age is unreasonable. And if the NRA is deemed unreasonable,
the age may need to be raised to comply with the regulations.
public safety employees in other state pension plans avoid this result
through the public safety employees safe harbor in the NRA
Regulations. Under the safe harbor, a NRA under a plan that is age 50 or
later would meet the requirements of the regulations if substantially
all of the participants in the plan are qualified public safety
employees. However, even though WRS protected occupation participants
are qualified public safety employees, this safe harbor may not apply to
them. This is because they participate in the same plan as general
employees and do not constitute a majority of the total active
membership. Therefore, protective occupation participants within WRS may
not meet the “substantially all” requirement of the safe harbor.
ask that you amend the regulations to make clear that the public
safety employees safe harbor apply to WRS protective occupation
participants. These participants put their lives on the line every day
to protect our citizens and they deserve to retire with full benefits at
the ages of 53 and 54. Furthermore, these participants were promised
these benefits and relied on these promises. Therefore, it's unjust to
cut their benefits after the fact.
Chairman
J. Mark Iwry, Senior Adviser to the Secretary, Deputy Assistant
Secretary for Retirement and Health Policy, United States Department of
Treasury
And now more on the false dialectic of public vs. private workers... Go on serfs, divided you'll win. Same as war is peace and ignorance is strength.
+
we can't afford a deal like our parents. They've already spent OUR money !
Take it up the Ass hard,Kohl.....
The new son in law is a cop is he.?
I'm continually amazed that those who bitch and moan about overpaid government employees never notice that there are clearly two classes of them. (Well 3 if you count elected politicians.)
The cops and firefighters, and all the others. The cops and firemen can retire after 20 or at most 25 years with pensions based on all the overtime and private details they can scrounge. Those are the ones with 150k pensions.
A teacher or postal worker has to work 30 or 35 years, and gets a pension based on base pay, half what the cops get if they're lucky.
This is, I grant you a better deal than most private sector workers get, but it the deal that their WWII generation parents got in the private sector, not something special dreamed up for them. My mother and two out of 3 uncles retired at 60ish after 35 years on about half final pay, plus healthcare.
I suggest that working folks would do far better to asking the pols why they are getting a crappier deal than their parents, not getting suckered into the politics of envy by those right wing pols.
I do not know the Contract the Officers in Wisconsin. We just lost Eric. Our Officers are also Fire Fighters.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ac/20110426/tr_ac/8369481_funeral_for_kalamazoo_public_safety_officer_eric_zapata
Furthermore, these participants were promised these benefits and relied on these promises. Therefore, it's unjust to cut their benefits after the fact. Lets get the facts.
Promised? Care to guess how many promises will be broken in the future? To get an idea just look back in history: don't ask natives this unless you want to get an earful.
It'll come down to this: children working in sweatshops to help supprt the "retired," or the "retired" not pulling in so much for being non-productive so that the children won't be forced to work in sweatshops.
The "American Dream" was only a dream. There are NO unicorns. Retirement isn't a way of life (look at how it is in the rest of the world, how it's historically been).
*** "The purpose of this letter is to express my concern regarding the impact of certain Treasury regulations on the normal retirement age (“NRA”) of protective occupation participants, including police officers and fire fighters" ***
The Government needs a way to keep the front line defenses in place against "We the People".. thusly "Divide and Conquer".
One group, people who risk thier lives every day? those fat doughnut eating fucking scumbags dont risk missing a meal...
Lethal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAHjhtYZpX0
Non-Lethal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G63FEamhpA0
I cant not wait for the video's of people defending themselves from these scumbag fucks..
Fire Fighters.. I am more liberal on.. based on the fact that as much shit that will be burning soon.. we will need them.
Why not continue to cut the Police Force in Half... and then scrap it all together for 1 Federal Police Force run from the U.N.? I mean White House! Oops, my bad..
"O" Wait that is tin foil hat talk.. my bad, carry on reasonable people who know fucking nothing about nothing and please dont forget to vote you ignorant fucks!
http://www.dailypaul.com/106972/obama-to-head-un-security-council
I dont really care for Ron, but he is the best thing going right now.
"Fire Fighters.. I am more liberal on.. based on the fact that as much shit that will be burning soon.. we will need them."
No, the INSURANCE sector needs them!
they do rescue Grandma's, Mom's, Kids and assorted others who are not so great at staying out of trouble.. and as far as that theme goes the over paid meter maids as well (by presence) keep some of the more spinless criminal at bay.
But broadly speaking, most of the people in jails (not prisons) are there for traffic violations.. think 70% PLUS! are there for speeding, driving on a suspended license.. it is the bread and butter for the county with the Federal Matching Funds.
The big beautiful jails need inmates, thusly we have people who are non-violent being housed at a HUGE! Tax Payer Expense.. for no other reason than to justify the ever growing threat level! LMFAO!
When the people do get hungry and decide to plug into the truth.. things are going to get ugly.
I am Lobbying "We the People" without any monies for an America based on "Common Sense" and "Truth" but minus the Lobby / Pay Offs / Bribes at the Federal Level.. Local Level give the mayor a few bucks and POOF! you go to Jail.. give your Congressional Representative those same dollars plus $100k more and it is You being a Lobbyist! LMFAO! same conversation and more money is legal at the Federal Level!
The Police will want to be first in line for the Government Hand Outs! if the shit ever does hit the fan.. and they will be zeroing in on all of you Blooggers, Tweeters and such! Homeland Security has already outlined that we are all Terrorists.. doesnt matter whether YOU! are left or right leaning.
Read dumb fucks!
http://goo.gl/3bto9 Use Twitter? Do you Blog? Do you Chat? YOU! are a Home Grown Terrorist(s) Per Home Land Security! See Link(s) and Official Report(s).
FBI, America Should be a Police State! A Big 3rd World Country, USA! http://goo.gl/M4bcP Warrantless Searches for ALL is the FBI wet dream come true! 3rd world status here we come!
FOIA Litigation for Accountable Government https://www.eff.org/issues/foia "Unfortunately, the PATRIOT Act did not include sufficient checks to protect innocent Americans” Senator R. Durbin (IL) http://bit.ly/guAj0Cdpcl.
Those guys on Capitol Hill are all so rich from lobby-hobby joy rides in dim elevators down to five star hotel parlors, receiving back handers and kickbacks in their glazed black windowed hush-hush cushioned fawn leather covered extended sedans, they could pay themselves the sweetest bunga bunga teen age chicks in town to make TW blush white from envy. I'd lose my grip on my big stick of driver at even a glimpse of those round bodied sleeping beauties. Thank heavens its not on my driving range as my slice would make the vice squad mad at those hookers who won't oblige the right hand side of the range, where they park their horn rimmed honkers, gaping at us going bonkers while writhing at our scything attempts to whip the hide from our round, white listless conkers sitting quaintly on their fat tees, like mandarins.
And you're in a position to complain? The difference between us and these folks is that we don't have the same connections*. Consider that 2/3 of the world's population lives on $3/day or less- are we really all the righteous?
* Look around you, do you get special treatment/priviledges from friends and associates? It's all human nature. There is no dividing line, only scale. And that's why I'm anti BIG.
I'll take your advice of being anti-big and henceforth drive with my putter! Having said that, an entrepreneur like me, who makes money on his experience and takes his risks is not a social agent like a public servant who takes no personal risk with his own money and who rakes in profits at no risk to himself and at people's expense. The all the more so that even if he got caught in hanky panky he can walk away and start again. In the private sector!
You're PART of the SYSTEM! As can be seen here, you are automatically revered because you are an "entrepreneur." Never mind that you could be no more than an importer of crap from China, or a BP executive (or someone making shit to kill lots of people).
ANYONE claiming superiority is automatically downgraded by me.
And the golfing references? Sorry, I've got a big chip on my shoulder about golf...
Aww.. Just when I thought we were going to get along a little better, you have to:
a) equate an exec at BP to small business owner (a bit of a leap on just about every front, no?)
and b) even worse, take a big ol' dump on golf?!? WTF about golf could make you so mad???
don't be such a nihilist. It's easy to hate and be in denial. It's more difficult to be constructive. You want to be a Bolshevik or an anarchist, it's your choice. I believe in being for the people but also for individual excellence and separation of powers to regulate between general good as personified by state and private initiative as personified by entrepreneurship. And I DONT IMPORT...I EXPORT!! So there...chew on that!
Golf is the ultimate sport for knowing yourself...It's a voyage into one's soul!
It's a lot more dangerous to work night-shift at the local 7-11 than to be a cop. You're on the front lines and you don't get to pack a weapon.
That would be " ...you don't officially get to pack a weapon." I went through that mill in Chicago. Less than a month after I quit, my succesor was robbed in a bank parking lot. The lay low policy cost a man his life at a Division St. store. From that day foward , I was ... ahem, "prepared".
dupe
Can you imagine this fucking Edomite is so desperate to get re-elected again he'll stoop this low to pander to a high visibility constituency that he thinks will take him over the top. Personally, I think it will back-fire on him, but it just goes to show you how up against the wall the Kleptocracy will got to keep one of their own in power. Yes, he'll probably get what he's asking for, and so will the United States of America, right up the A$$ from lothesome rascals like this fucking hook and his 2B2Fail-Bail-Jail Edomite Bankster butt buddies. Well, there's another one to send to Gitmo when the Revolution comes.
But... how is this really any different than all the flag-pin-lapel wearing folks who shout "Support the troops?" Talk about a shitty back-door way of funneling money: no, it's not about money actually going to folks who really have their butts in the fire, but to the "defense" contractors.
So, how about it, where are all the folks' rage when military special interests are pandered to?
Anyone focusing on one "party" is no more than a party troll (a hypocrite).
He wants money for blue collar folks so that they shop more at his Kohl's junkyard stores.
Government should not be engaged in any special treatment of any one group, because that means the others are getting screwed over to pay for them.
Austerity for thee...
Bruce - a missing detail is what "full benefits" means here.
In San Jose, CA "full benefits" means cops/firemen retire at 50 with a pension payment of $103,925 per year for life, and automatic 3 percent annual raises too.
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_16441517
Yes, I see by the chart that after 20+ years of service, the average retired police officer or fireman earns almost $7000 a month and will earn more than that in retirement +3% COLA. Gee, that's something I haven't managed to do in 40+ years of working at my own businesses.
I'm glad our tax contributions have paid off so handsomely for our public sevants. Too bad it didn't work out as well for their masters. Ahem.
www.sanjoseca.gov/auditor/External/2010/P&F-CAFR2010.pdf
Is life something that you have bought and paid for and once paid, it's yours free and clear?
The ancient Greeks thought in terms of the agon. Life is a struggle. If you are at a point momentarily when you do not have to struggle for yourself, then you will probably have to struggle for someone else : loved ones, family, friends, clan, tribe, community, nation etc.
Not a consumer, a citizen. The consumer created Disneyland. Citizens created the United States. Responsibility is not what you think you are owed, but what you have to fight for. And of course, the hardest fight is when the battle is not literal, but figurative.
Thanks for posting this.
Careful to note "ancient" in this thread. A favorite of mine is "ethos".
Perhaps we share the same habits ...
Carving out special interest groups and corruption is soooo difficult. Best response for States is to simply declare bankruptcy and let the Statutes decide the order of things and/or the contracts be completely renegotiated in light of the Real Economy....not the Fairy Land Deals that were made under previous conditions and are impossible to keep.
Plus, by carving out one "special group" all the others get screwed even more.
GL!
Aahhh yes, the epitome of what is wrong with our political system, these guys get a seat and proceed to fossilize while holding it. Herb Kohl is only the second sen. to hold that seat since McCarthy; that should give everyone context in timeline. Admittedly, Wisconsinites loved Sen Proxmire before him, he also was in office forever, 32 effin years.
Nothing explains Herb Kohl better than watching the ridiculous dialogue and attempts at verbal jousting with Clarance Thomas during the confirmation hearings in 91.
I became of voting age in 87...never once voted for Kohl. My blood is boiling as i type this...you just cant get rid of this guy. As I suggested, it just shows what a person can do when you spend your time flying under the radar....
Seriously people, change may have been a Fraud with Obama, however, you can not change things if you keep voting for the same effiin people over and over.
And, Feingold voted against Dodd-Frank in principal because it didn't go far enough and was watered down....Hence he was ousted? The message here is....fall in line or else.
Not arguing against the notion of entrenchment (as being bad), but if you think that the revolving door "solution" is better then you're rather naive.
I smell party politics here.
dup
The sheeple can get rid of these guys by voting. But they don't. The founders originally had only tax payers vote. They were almost all landowners. But when you allow 50% of the population to vote, but bear zero consequences because they pay no taxes, they will vote to spend everyone else's money. It is that simple. In the long run they will pay but not in the short run. And in the short run Jersey Shore is more important.
The Ponzi scheme worked since the USA grew enough each year in population and productivity to cover for the stupidity and venality of the voters. But what they don't get now is the USA growth model is over. Its post war dominance is through, so with all the competition, endless spending of OPM is not workable. Old crones like Kohl will happily kick that can down the road, so the implosion happens long after his meager, useless petty life naturally expires. His (and others) legacy will be a decrepit country that resembles his ugly face.
The sheeple can get rid of these guys by voting.
Sorry, i'll have to take issue with that statement. You guys will not get rid of them by voting. Because the corollary is that you get another one in their place.
amerika needs a change of government, NOT just a change of the people in it. a change BACK into what it once was would be nice.
"amerika needs a change of government, NOT just a change of the people in it. a change BACK into what it once was would be nice."
I take issue with this statement.
First, WHO says I need a government?
Second, back to WHEN? Name me a time in which YOU would feel more comfortable. Remember: history is a glorification by the "victors," the chain of people who are now STILL in power.
Agree with almost all of this...except the last part. Feingold voted against EVERYTHING except (worthless) crap he sponsored. That was his thing...so he could say later on "I didn't vote for that". He was ousted because he was a seless piece of incumbent garbage.
Well, it is true Feingold was not new to office either. Was it his time to go...i guess that answer is yes. My comments were more about the context in which he lost of his seat.
Maybe i just have a bad memory, but at least Feingold sponsored legislation. What has Kohl done in 22 years?
----------
As an aside, I originally found this paper via Yves Smith blog, I would say it is required reading to understand how we got to where we are today:
Legislators Never Bowl Alone:
Big Money, Mass Media, and the Polarization of Congress
Thomas Ferguson
INET Conference
Bretton Woods
April, 2011
Thomas Ferguson is Professor of Political Science at the University of Massachusetts, Boston, Senior
Fellow at the Roosevelt Institute, and a member of the Advisory Board of INET.
http://ineteconomics.org/sites/inet.civicactions.net/files/BWpaper_Fergu...
So people who work in recycling, electricians, truck drivers, ranchers, steel workers, pilots, loggers, and fisherman also get this sweetheart deal?
On a per-capita to death ratio, they all seem to have a higher ratio than cops do based on Osha and employment data I just looked through courtesy of a number of sites that have also done the calculations.
Seems to me that they should based on this senators assessment.
But these folks aren't part of the Praetorian Guard!
Hell Yeah ! ... and Farmers, and Sex Workers, C-Store Clerks,Painters, Rock Stars, and Troubled Artists, and, and ,and...
i still say walking around in a goofy uniform is going to make them sitting ducks
The government is in business primarily for itself at this point. Let's stop trying to pretend otherwise.
Who is willing to make the argument that public education (for instance) is not first a jobs program for adults and second (maybe) a system for educating children?
You don't seem to understand that the entire economy is a jobs program.
I understand that there is a difference between the public and private sectors and that beyond a certain point (a dot in the rear-view mirror) the former expands at the expense of the later.
That's true, I'm trying to be neutral about free market vs. socialism in my thinking, I just have a difficult time getting my head around the unemployment problem. Short of creating a peasant class, I cannot understand why private enterprise would be willing to hire anyone. The majority of jobs and careers available in our economy are cogs and wheels in this unsustainable system. Once the system falls apart, it will become obvious to everyone that only a small productive segment of the economy is necessary. The correlary to this is that job creation is done to keep the dog chasing its tail; to keep everyone from comprehending the truth. Therefore, the productive are taxed, obstruction is created, regulations are added, walls are put up, all of this is done to keep things inefficient.
Excellent summation! It's a Catch-22... In essense we've caught ourselves lying (about the "American Dream"). How about the Royal Wedding, eh?
All hail the mighty "private" sector, the one who created the current meltdown...
It's got NOTHING to do with "public" or "private," but EVERYTHING to do with the underlying fundamental of predicating a system on growth.
The "private" sector cannot assume many functions because it could NOT earn a profit: I'd argue that many that appear to be earning profits are only doing so due to subsidies from the "public" sector.
Let's not kid ourselves. Most here cry about getting rid of government, and while I agree, I hold no illusions (like most here) that this will result in some sort of "cure/solution." What we will find when we peel off all the obfuscations that have been wrapped around our lives (by govt + corporations) is that we won't be able to afford the overwhelming number of things that we are able to afford today.
We have the SAME people in "private" business are we have in govt.
"we won't be able to afford the overwhelming number of things that we are able to afford today."
That's the problem -- we have never been able to "afford" those "overwhelming number of things" we have today. For the past 40 years, many of those "things" have come from public and private sector spending that was debt financed. Debt financed consumption is fools gold. Some Ameicans have done more debt financed spending than others. And some Americans who have lived without many "things" for many years and avoided debt really resent being called upon to take care of those folks who didnt.
The public sector and and most of the private sector not only have to stop borrowing, but actually deleverage. Yes, that will be very painful. Everyone seemingly wants to avoid pain at any cost -- hence we borrow more money, print more money, get the "government" (you and me) to bail people out. We have over consumed (lived beyond our means), and now we have to under-consume (live below our means). That is the price for the debt financed consumption party that has been going on for 40 years.
Sorry for the harsh reality. I understand their is no backbone or political will in this country to stop spending and suffer the consequences.