Senate To Pass Latest Unemployment Stimulus Bill: Cost To Futures Generations: A Penny Or Three (NPV)

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Tue, 07/20/2010 - 15:49 | 479407 Testicular Cancer
Testicular Cancer's picture

Any tax friendly nations outside the US?

Tue, 07/20/2010 - 15:51 | 479413 Ragnarok
Ragnarok's picture

Plenty, but are you American? If so, you'll have to renounce your citizenship to reap the rewards.

Tue, 07/20/2010 - 15:54 | 479435 Testicular Cancer
Testicular Cancer's picture

Emm. Your point being?

Tue, 07/20/2010 - 16:04 | 479484 Ragnarok
Ragnarok's picture

Americans are taxed on their worldwide income based on citizenship, where a country like Canada is taxed on residency.  Becoming a resident of a low tax country is FAR easier and quicker than becoming a citizen of a low tax country.

Tue, 07/20/2010 - 16:12 | 479537 UncleFurker
UncleFurker's picture


Yes. And if you pick a country such as Panama, you only pay tax on income you earn within the borders.


If you want to stick with English (even better, the Queen's English) New Zealand gives migrants a 4 year tax holiday on overseas earned income.



Tue, 07/20/2010 - 16:22 | 479565 Ragnarok
Ragnarok's picture

Panama is great for Canadians, there are multiple ways to become a resident within 3 months.  It also has a tiny population and only one major urban center.


As for income tax, you are correct, 27% on income produced inside of Panama, not including interest, CDs, foreign equities, foreign bonds etc.  So if you had a decent amount of passive cash-flow from outside of Panama you could basically live tax free.

Tue, 07/20/2010 - 16:08 | 479508 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

They sure keep the hooks in:

The American Jobs Creation Act (AJCA) of 2004 amends Section 877 of the Internal Revenue Code (IRC), which provides for an alternative tax regime for certain, expatriated individuals. Amended IRC 877 eliminates the tax avoidance criteria for imposition of the expatriation tax on certain types of income for 10 years following expatriation, and creates objective criteria to impose the tax on individuals with an average income tax liability of $127,000 for tax year 2005 (or higher amount for later years) for the 5 prior years or a net worth of $2,000,000 on the date of expatriation. In addition, it requires individuals to certify to the IRS that they have satisfied all federal tax requirements for the 5 years prior to expatriation and requires annual information reporting for each taxable year during which an individual is subject to the rules of IRC 877. Further, expatriated individuals will be subject to U.S. tax on their worldwide income for any of the 10 years following expatriation in which they are present in the U.S. for more than 30 days, or 60 days in the case of individuals working in the U.S. for an unrelated employer.  Finally, even if they do not meet the monetary thresholds for imposition of the IRC 877 expatriation tax, the new law provides that individuals will continue to be treated as U.S. citizens or long-term residents for U.S. tax purposes until they have notified the Secretary of the Department of State or of Homeland Security of expatriation or termination of residency.  The implementation date of this provision is retroactive and applies to expatriations occurring after June 3, 2004.  The expatriation is not effective until the notification and tax satisfaction certifications are filed with the IRS and the Department of State or of Homeland Security.,,id=97245,00...

If you are long precious metals you should also buy good rifles while you still can:

Tue, 07/20/2010 - 15:56 | 479443 Mad Max
Mad Max's picture

Not to mention an exit tax when you do so...

And perhaps more importantly, huge hassles in having an ordinary life in another country while you're setting up there and trying to gain citizenship.  Not many places where you can move in and become a citizen the same day and therefore be able to renounce US citizenship right away.

The trap is fairly well set and getting tighter.

Tue, 07/20/2010 - 16:07 | 479507 ejmoosa
ejmoosa's picture

In a nation where non-citizens are treated better than citizens, citizenship ain't what it used to be.

Tue, 07/20/2010 - 16:09 | 479518 Testicular Cancer
Testicular Cancer's picture


Tue, 07/20/2010 - 17:22 | 479739 LeBalance
LeBalance's picture

and it hasn't been since the Civil War when the 14th Amendment equated citizen and slave by removing the rights of the citizen.  This manuver and the language that performed it is explained here:

Tue, 07/20/2010 - 17:09 | 479707 Iam_Silverman
Iam_Silverman's picture

"where non-citizens are treated better than citizens"

I wonder if I could declare myself to be an illegal alien?  Would I have to renounce my American citizenship first?  I guess so, dumb question.

Still, that is a great idea!  from now on I will be an illegal alien!

Tue, 07/20/2010 - 16:21 | 479563 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Its what many Billionairs have done.

Upon renouncing US Citizenship, a large portion of net worth is immediately lost to taxes.

Buy an island, become your own sovereign and set up your own constitution and tax laws.

Then apply for an E2 visa.


Tue, 07/20/2010 - 20:40 | 480073 puckles
puckles's picture

There are strict limits to the taxation, and if you are married, greater limits may apply.  For further information of a cutting-edge sort, look at the Sovereign Society,, and  They have the up to date information on these issues.

Tue, 07/20/2010 - 15:52 | 479426 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

Let's pick some place with a nice climate and make it so.  What is the story with Gibraltar?

Tue, 07/20/2010 - 20:42 | 480078 puckles
puckles's picture

Malta is equally nice, and nobody thinks of it aside from Brits...unfortunately, they do use the Euro...

Tue, 07/20/2010 - 15:50 | 479410 jkruffin
jkruffin's picture

See you all at DOW 13k,  no used in fighting the FED anymore if I were you guys,  its obvious the plan is the plan and it will be executed.  The worse news we have seen in a year, and market moves higher.  Wall Street will be taken care of, while Main Street falls into the abyss.

Tue, 07/20/2010 - 16:06 | 479501 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

That is indeed the plan. Then Main Street will be at the whim of Wall Street. We've made our choices in this country.

Tue, 07/20/2010 - 15:51 | 479414 ZackAttack
ZackAttack's picture

If they can just print everything they need, why are we even paying taxes?

Tue, 07/20/2010 - 15:52 | 479422 Ragnarok
Ragnarok's picture

And let the serfs go free? I don't think so.

Tue, 07/20/2010 - 16:03 | 479477 oklaboy
oklaboy's picture


Tue, 07/20/2010 - 16:08 | 479505 Divided States ...
Divided States of America's picture

How do I move from serfdom to the elite?


Looks to me that only the NO Income group and the Wealthy gets the bailouts.

Tue, 07/20/2010 - 16:28 | 479588 Ragnarok
Ragnarok's picture

1) Put yourself outside of the law

2) Make a shit-load of money

3) Suck the right dicks

4) Marry into old money or make ungodly more amounts of money

Tue, 07/20/2010 - 20:51 | 480089 puckles
puckles's picture

To ensure that those whom they wish to further enslave i.e., the few productive people left (and garner votes, of course, from the Federally employed, and their cognates) understand who's the boss...see this:

Tue, 07/20/2010 - 15:51 | 479420 uno
uno's picture

Does it matter anymore in USD.  How much is it in AMEROs.

Tue, 07/20/2010 - 15:52 | 479424 Gary Busey
Gary Busey's picture

"It extends funding through Nov. 30"

...convenient timing

Tue, 07/20/2010 - 16:03 | 479474 midtowng
midtowng's picture

Very convenient. After the election who needs the serfs anymore?

Tue, 07/20/2010 - 20:02 | 480025 TheGoodDoctor
TheGoodDoctor's picture

They'll need them in 2012.

Tue, 07/20/2010 - 15:53 | 479427 jkruffin
jkruffin's picture

The money to pay for it should come from the sale of Citigroup shares.  They have enough shares to dump right now to pay for the entire bill.  Obammy needs to put his foot in Geithners ass to sell all those shares now.  Who cares if Shittybank's stock drops to a dime,  get the people their UE.  They bragged all year long how much money they made from Citi shares and TARP interest right?  Then there is your money. 

Unless of course, the whole thing has been nothing but a lie.  Gee ya think?

Tue, 07/20/2010 - 16:08 | 479513 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Shhh. Can't piss off Saudi Royals, ya know

Wed, 07/21/2010 - 03:54 | 480455 Moneygrove
Moneygrove's picture

bush daddy will get a call from the king !!!

Tue, 07/20/2010 - 15:53 | 479428 Number 156
Number 156's picture

Thats it. Im selling my house, buying a Van and quitting my job so I can live down by the river.

Tue, 07/20/2010 - 15:58 | 479454 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

Ah yes, down by the river.  How about an occasional motivational speaking gig to cover propane?

Tue, 07/20/2010 - 17:26 | 479751 Hansel
Hansel's picture

Rubber tramp sounds tons better than fiat slave right now.

Tue, 07/20/2010 - 15:53 | 479431 Gubbmint Cheese
Gubbmint Cheese's picture

F*ck these hft ramp jobs... the end game will be messy 

as the old saying goes..

you can make money in the market if you are a bull, and you can make money in the market if you are a bear.. but if you are a pig, you will always get slaughtered.


Tue, 07/20/2010 - 15:55 | 479437 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

50DMA on SPX is only 5 points away.  God is it good to be living in these insane times.  I would be scared of reality if everything wasn't so fairy tale to keep me sedated.

Tue, 07/20/2010 - 15:55 | 479441 Testicular Cancer
Testicular Cancer's picture

I am Jack's trailer trash.

Tue, 07/20/2010 - 15:57 | 479448 virgilcaine
virgilcaine's picture

permanently unemployed.. next gov will move them to  a unemployed holding camp.

Tue, 07/20/2010 - 16:10 | 479524 DonnieD
DonnieD's picture

At this rate it won't be long until unemployment surpasses Medicare and Social Security as a gov't expense.

Wed, 07/21/2010 - 03:56 | 480456 Moneygrove
Moneygrove's picture

Does look like the bush tax cuts are making any jobs ! they have to go !!!

Tue, 07/20/2010 - 15:57 | 479449 tecno242
tecno242's picture

fuck it.


i'm quitting my job.. i'll just sit on my ass for 3 years.. that's what.. 36K free dollars...

f yeah.

Tue, 07/20/2010 - 15:59 | 479459 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

3 years?  I will take the over.

Tue, 07/20/2010 - 16:03 | 479482 uno
uno's picture

add on 500/month approximately since you will be one of the 40,000,000+ getting foodstamps, and then there is mediaid and lower electricity and other programs you qualify for.

Wed, 07/21/2010 - 03:58 | 480457 Moneygrove
Moneygrove's picture

Doesn`t sound like the bush tax cuts made any jobs !! 

Tue, 07/20/2010 - 16:04 | 479487 midtowng
midtowng's picture

36K stretched out over 3 years isn't much.

Tue, 07/20/2010 - 16:07 | 479496 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

Unless you are the one paying it in additional taxes.  But you probably don't pay income tax, do you?

Tue, 07/20/2010 - 16:14 | 479543 midtowng
midtowng's picture

Who doesn't pay income taxes?

Are you trying to say that anyone who doesn't oppose unemployment benefits when there is double-digit unemployment must have spent their lives on welfare? Is that what you learn from watching Fox News?

Tue, 07/20/2010 - 16:22 | 479553 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

Who doesn't pay income taxes?

47% Of Americans Don't Pay Federal Income Tax.  45% think the tax system is just fine.  Clearly you are one of them.


Tue, 07/20/2010 - 19:54 | 480015 midtowng
midtowng's picture

"Clearly you are one of them."

I see that you hate "them". Them seem to be everywhere these days. However, I'm sure you will be disappointed to know that I paid income taxes last year, and every other years since I entered the workforce in 1985. So you'll have to find a different reason to hate me...which I'm sure you will.

Wed, 07/21/2010 - 08:49 | 480584 RKDS
RKDS's picture

I just don't get that because I don't make anywhere near six figures and I still end up in the 25% federal bracket.  Hell, I even paid taxes when I had a summer job in highschool.  This has got to be a warped statistic, of at least the caliber of "core" inflation and "official" unemployment.

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