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Senator Bernie Sanders: America Is Now A Banana Republic
Some emotional words from Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders over the increasing social inequality in America, which he now defines as indicative of America's transition to a banana republic: "Many of the nation's billionaires are on the war path. They want more, more, more. Their greed has no end, and apparently there is very little concern for our country or for the people of this country if it gets in the way of the accumulation of more and more wealth, and more and more power. Today as the middle class collapses, the top 1% earns 23.5% of all income, more than the bottom 50%. Today, if you can believe it, the top 1/10th of 1% earns about 12 cents of every dollar in America... It is very clear that the people on top are doing extraordinarily well as the poverty is decreasing... Today the crooks on Wall Street, the people whose illegal, reckless actions have resulted in the millions of Americans losing their jobs, their savings, after we bailed them out, the CEOs are making more money than before the bailout. The US now has by far the most unequal distribution of income and wealth of any major country on earth." Not surprisingly, Sanders is not too happy about the proposed tax cut for the richest.
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Judging by those Walmart and Target videos from Black Friday, even the poor want "more more more"!
Judging by your comment, I believe the good Senator is talking about you.
Yeah only the rich are greedy. Those poor little fellas sitting on their idling butt, demanding unemployment benefit to infinity \ free health care \ free housing and every other free lunch welfare are certainly not among the "more more more" group, yes/no?
Too many Bernie Sanders / Pelosi / Barney Fraud running the show is the reason why this nation goes banana.
you're an idiot. Sanders is the best of the few remaining senators who are not wholly bought and paid for. The guy has integrity. Don't lump him into your talking points. You're going off script.
The only thing I've seen TPTB have got to him on, is climate change. Other than that, he fights the good fight. So while he isn't perfect, he is one of the best, who should be one of the worst, in a utopian democracy, but I'll take him.
Are you kidding me? Bernie Sanders is just ANOTHER PROGRESSIVE FRAUD like the rest of those senators and tries to PRETEND he's somehow all for the people.
Just one example to bust the myth about Sanders' "integrity": Back in Spring when they were voting on a bill to demand at least 5% down payment on any mortgage Fannie/Freddie/Ginnie are dishing out, this Sanders voted 'No' on the bill.
Why? "B/c that way it'd make homes available to only those who can afford them." No I didn't make it up. In other words Sanders is saying, "Screw you, dumb peasant tax payers. We will countine to feed your hard earned money into this housing bubble. Now pi$$ off." Integrity my @$$.
so if his speech was made by a cartoon, with no previous record, it would be valid??
-100
Bernie is correct about the problem, concentration of wealth and power, he is wrong about the solution.
Bernie is a proud big government socialist. His solutions will only lead to a change of where the power and wealth is concentrated.
The concentration of wealth and power relies on the coercive power of "big" government. The billionaires need the sympathy of government to grow and sustain their plunder. If the billionaires had to compete in an open and competitive society with an impartial and objective government their concentration of power and wealth would be much more difficult.
The solution to this problem is in our Constitution. Liberty, accountability, the rule of law and recognition of the sacred nature of property rights are the answer. If we do not return to the founding principles we, the productive "little man", will soon be forced to join John Galt.
perfectly put.
further, debt-based money siphons wealth upwards to counterfeiters and cronies. More government is choking the life out of liberty and upward mobility.
Wow ignorance is so blissful.
Poor Greed = same societal effects as = Rich's Greed??? Fucking pass 1st grade? Must not of.
Poor Man's Greed = Getting nuts on your ice cream, believing when some person working for a the rich greedy man told you that you could afford this house.
Rich Man's Greed = Economic wars, religious wars (all of them by the way), millions left to rot, murders/assassinations, fraud by the thousands of trillions.
Yeah, we're talking same scale here. We're talking Greed is the same no matter who's doing it? Man some people see black/white and live it like a dumbass.
Their sitting on their idling butt, because your rich and greedy took the profit from dismantling their job, idiot.
Their demanding unemployment (because death is better according to you) because their rich and greedy dipshit you like to protect, won't use ANY of the TAX CUTS from the past 40 years to give them a job, nor any of the bailouts, nor any of their own money. Because trickle down, supply side economics NEVER WORKED, not even in 1984, idiot.
Because Free Health care is just so bad, otherwise we like having dead people in th streets, and more people sick with contagious diseases that wow, rich people can catch too. The rich died during the black plague as well. What caused the black plague? The venitians destroying europes economy...dumbass. Meanwhile, why can't we pay for health care? You mean, you believe SO MUCH in a MONETARY system, you have no inkling what a CREDIT SYSTEM is? Or the fact that we need not borrow ONE FUCKING DIME, FROM ONE FUCKING BANKSTER to fund it? Oh yeah, because you don't know shit from shinola, you just think you do. You live in monetary world, and ALL YOUR IDEAS and DETERMINATIONS are from that small, narrow minded, arena. Wake the fuck up, tard.
Free housing? No, they planned to pay for it, it was your rich, greedy, fuck tards, that screwed it all up. Remember, the poor went through WHOSE process? Oh yeah, the RICH GREEDY FUCKS. It's their fault, dipshit.
Free lunch welfare? You're a fucking tard. Welfare it's in the constitution, under 'gernal'. Fuck nut retard, dipshit unamerican, asshole.
You don't even know WHAT AMERICA IS? You just believe in the british version of it. You probably think you're a patriot.
I AGREE WITH YOU, YOU ARE A PATRIOT, A BRITISH MONETARIST PATRIOT FUCKTARD, who here in America, is an AMERICAN PATRIOT'S enemy. Realize that, numbnuts.
Here's a clue, take all welfare in the history of manking, and it doesn't equal just in bailouts given here in 2010. FUCKING RETARDED FOOL
The more more more group is YOU, dipshit, and you're too fucking stupid to DIFFERENTIATE IT, like monetary system versus credit system, like British ideals vs American ideals. Learn you're a fucktard, and maybe you can repent.
I bet you like fascist fuck tard Rand "I'm a traitor to everything America is' Paul. Or the Nuts on your face, fully funded and provided by the Queen of England 'Tea Party'.
Don't you know, Pelosi and Barney, aren't democrats. Just like Rand Paul, Bachman, Palin, Boehner, McConnell AREN'T republicans.
THEY"RE ALL FASCIST FUCKTARDS, with similar FASCIST FALLACIES like YOU. So really, you're just yelling at yourself, because you don't realize you're in the SAME BOAT AS NEROBAMA.
NEROBAMA, Rand Paul, and YOU, the fucktards, continuing to take us down the same fucktard path we've been going on. What fucktard path is that, a traitorous, Queen of England, IMPERIALIST (globalization) MONETARIST genocidal, anti-american, path.
You're too stupid to even know you're on the wrong side. You think you're with the patriots, by GOD YOU AREN"T, and I WON"T LET YOU EVEN THINK SO FOR A SECOND.
Oh you can lie to yourself, but you cannot lie to me.
You are NO PATRIOT, as long as you believe the crap you spouted above, you're just as confused as a 90 year old alzheimer's patient, but with the bravado of idiot W Bush thinking you're right.
Nope, you are SO wrong, on SO many levels, it's just fucking sad. Get over it. Monetarism is the enemy, but they got you thinking it's democrats and welfare, and healthcare. You're a bonafide idiot. Get a clue, or leave the country, because YOU AIN'T A PATRIOT, and YOU DON'T DESERVE to live here, with such parasitical, foreign ideas. You don't even realize you espouse the ideology of our enemies. FUCKTARD.
RAND PAUL IS A FASCIST
BARACK OBAMA (NEROBAMA) IS A FASCIST
HANNITY/LIMBAUGH/MALKIN/FAUX NEWS are FASCISTS
MSNBC/PELOSI/REID are FASCISTS
When are YOU going to realize, you are fighting the fight, the FASCISTS believe YOUR DUMB ASS WILL FIGHT. They're right, YOU'RE DUMB ASS IS FIGHTING IT. YOUR DUMB ASS SIDE HAS BEEN PUSHING IT FOR 40 YEARS. BOTH SIDES ARE FASCIST, BUT YOUR SIDE STARTED AND IS COMPLETELY ENTHRALLED by it, SO MUCH, the fascist ideas are now a BEDROCK of your bullshit ideology. YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM, DIPSHIT.
Glass-Steagall
NAWAPA
FIXED EXCHANGE RATES
American Credit System
FUSION
NUCLEAR PLANTS
SPACE
MAG LEV
Health care under HILL/BURTON standard (bet your dumbass never heard of that, and think HMO's are the bee's knees)
What's your plan, nothing? Yeah, that's it, nothing, or more of the same fascist crap that got us here. Wake up and smell the coffee, you're only live at the Folgers plant dipshit.
wooooooooooooooooo, man, damned good rant, that had to feel like a million, billion, trillion, googlian dollars.
That is what we need more of.
Well that and a good solid Libertarian Anarchy....
...and a piece of cheesecake.
ha, ha. its all about sacrificing others to make himself FEEL better! ha, ha.
Lyndon Laouche?
Certainly seems to quack like that duck.
jmc8888
Hey Bravo for saying that ! you could have spared some of the F...tards, but you made your point and some of us hear you (even fom Europe)..=r we have the same idiots here whether they be leftits, rightists or centrists, the fact is, they're all the same.
@ others
Blaming the poor is just what they'd want...Damn, I can't believe middle class folks would stand against vulnerables...You should read the post again and that some of you junked to get back to reality....
you have not a clue. you are a useful idiot. the international banking cartel LOVES people like you, because you build the government coffers that they raid.
where did all the social security money go?!!! golly, i don't know. its just gone and spent on government contracts around the world. what should we do? oh, golly, lets just fill up the coffers again so they can be raided. lets let the international banking cartel securitize the Treasury Bonds and then front-run the US Taxpayer in the bond market on the way to untold $Trillions.
lets keep this fantastic debt-based money which forces us to pay an interest rate on our money supply, whether our economy is growing or not.
the ruling elite are LOVING your rant, you fool. further, this collapse is by design. get a fucking clue and channel your rants towards the true enemies of liberty.
here, educate yourself:
http://www.zerohedge.com/forum/how-do-we-arrive-eve-our-collapse
I don't feel inclined to flag you. I see a rage that isn't at all difficult to empathize with. I don't agree with all you try to say, nor do I consider you absolutely wrong.
The fucking system is wrong. You being livid is an understandable reaction.
agreed. it is misplaced anger which should be directed towards the International Banking Cartel, and specifically David Rockefeller, in my opinion.
this is my take on things:
THE ONGOING PLOT TO ENSLAVE US. http://www.zerohedge.com/forum/plot-enslave-you-0
(sing along)........." if you're happy and you know it , clap your hands ! (clap-clap) ....... if you're . . . . . . . .
The personal hell that is your mindset tempers my contempt for your views... so I'll let your comments speak for themselves.
The one question that nobody has answered is whether the liquidation deals actually lead to higher sales of non-discounted items. It is very possible that margins at retailers got crushed on Black Friday as the only items purchased were those sold below carrying value. Keeping track of retail Net Working Capital will be interesting after the Q4 earnings barrage (and once again, everyone should be paying attention at the LIFO-FIFO arbitrage trade).
There you go again, ruining the Xmas spirit. /sarc
God, I love this place..... the Professor steps in at 12:30 to restore order to classroom...get back on track. Thread follows for about 2 hours.
Tyler,
You nailed it, most REGULAR Americans always buy the LOSS leaders, and only the Upper middle class, and above, buy things at anywhere close to retail.
The common folks, as you know, try to get the most bang for what bucks they have.The retailers make their margins on the IMPULSE buyers.And volume.
You too have nailed it.
Interesting theory.
It was a bit of a shock when somebody on another forum said I didn't make enough money to be considered middle class at all and the conversation on this site often seems to correlate with that observation. I always thought the middle class was where people had to budget money and save for stuff but didn't have to do the balancing act between bills and food that the poor do. If that definition holds water, ignoring Black Friday and paying retail for stuff unless I fall into a sale makes sense, though it paints some of the complaints I read in a less than flattering light.
Almost everyone considers themselves to be in the "middle class" unless so poor or rich that they can no longer deny it.
Yessir, it's all pretty arbitrary when you get down to it. Net worth has nothing to do with success or happiness, both of which are quite subjective. Severe weath accumulation for security is an illusion to distract you from life while you run out the clock. Then, on your deathbed, under your 500 thread count Egyptian sheets, and next to your gold plated bedpan, you're in the same circumstance as the anonymous homeless guy dying in the gutter on the other side of town. The point I'm dancing around is that unless you're too rich to spend what you have accumulated within the remainder of your lifetime, it is very likely you're a serf like me (relatively speaking, of course).
This is what happens when you lose industry and rely on services and financials to generate wealth. Did you expect something else to happen?
Nobody pays full retail price for anything anymore. If you're not printing out an internet coupon, looking for the best discount online, or using a Groupon, you're paying too much. Tough to see how retailers even have margins anymore.
When normal retail is 300-400% to start, it is not that hard.
Exactly what the Black Friday hype has created, A bunch of $169 lap top fools that trample each other to get one, meanwhile the higher margin merchandise just sits on the shelves collecting dust. They might just as well stack the promo goods outside and have a monkey with a note sell it, it would save some injuries and reduce the workforce needed to sell the crap these people are after.
If someone who can't otherwise can't afford a laptop picks one up for $169, how are the a fool? They're probably pretty pleased with their purchase.
I went out on Black Friday to pick up a 40" tv for $500, as I've been using the same 25" for more then 10 years. I can afford the tv now, used cash, and paid less than half of retail for it. I don't feel like a fool.
You will in about 14 months when the pos you bought for $500 stops working! My recommendation, buy the extended warranty...you will need it.
That tiny TV was probably $500 back then. Though it lasted 10 years, the rate of change in tech has increased (Moore's law) such that $500 now produces a 10X improved experience, i.e. utility. The decline in the life of the TV only reflects the manufacturer's recognition that in 14 months $500 will buy the consumer an even better set. It's not a conspiracy it's called R&D. Extended warranty? What, are we buying a Sanyo in 1985? Thank you come again.
Semantics
He's saying it's foolish, not for getting it at that price, but for going along with the scam that it is, everybody line up for an item that only 1-5 of you get.
That's horseshit. It's degrading. Also, you never know WHEN one of these things turn sour, and you, or your loved one, or your kid ends up dead.
Hell you may not even be shopping, to teach your child a lesson in hard work, you made them get a job at Walmart, and they might be the ones trampled.
Don't forget, one of those walmart employees killed a couple of years ago, was a 19-25 year old male worker. It wasn't as if some old lady fell down and was tripped over. We're talking stampede, a mob mentality, where whenever it breaks out, people can die. Just ask your local euro friend who might have been at an 80's soccer (futbol) event.
It's that businesses are turning to mob-mentality to fool people and investors that their business is loved, has support, and is doing better. Using simple thinking, because that's where all this bullshit rests, are you more or less likely to dump a stock if you've seen on TV 1,000 people in line at one of their 500 outlets? It's all smoke and mirrors, and I wouldn't be surprised if one of the original usages of it was to pad a guy's bonus based on what the stock price was, and how do you do that? Well make it appear to the street that EVERBODY'S LOVES US.
Hey I've gotten some stuff too at these places, I just won't wait in line for one of these things. The last thing I'm going to do, is believe I'm the lucky fuck that will get the 169.99 (1) in stock television. But, just like in stocks, and being the first to the exits, EVERYONE THINKS THEY"LL be the equivalent of the man who got the 169 hdtv, the 68 dollar blu ray, the 30 dollar halo reach, the 68 dollar 2tb hard drive, and more all by YOU.
This is where we have to understand the differences in perception, because you're both talking about the same thing. It's ok to get one, and also 10 years ago, these things weren't nearly as dangerous as they are now. Now it's like yelling fire in a crowded room, and I just don't see how we don't have laws legislating it as such.
I think the idea used to be to lure in shoppers with a few bargain items (sold at loss) and sell enough additional items to be profitable at the end of the day. Now, I think retailers expect to lose money on Black Friday, but create enough of a buzz that it drives profitable sales for the remainder of the season.
I think that Black Friday Mob Stamped was all about Consumers trying to get items at 95% off. That is the only way they will have a chance of putting something under the tree. I think the Crowds and the stampeds show the Desperation of the American People.
Desperate to do what? Put something under a tree. This makes no sense to me. When did we start to believe that something has to be under a tree and there has to be a desperate need to do such? This is where the fundamental problem is. Greed is a problem at all levels in our society not just the upper class.
Desperation should be left to things like not having heat during a blizzard, not being able to buy food staples to feed your starving children, not having a roof over ones head and living in a shanty town. Not beating the crap out of each other to buy more Chinese crap so your kids don't feel left out.
See its statements like your which fuel the hatred towards the poor in our society. If they can afford to buy a 165$ laptop instead of taking their kids to see the dentist, or buying them new shoes then they are not desperate. They have skewed priorities.
I think people need to watch two movies this Christmas season to get a little perspective:
1) The Grinch that Stole Christmas
2) Soylent Green
Two excellent choices. I'll admit "Soylent Green" has never been a Christmas tradition in our home, but I'm gonna give it a try. We're more "Gargoyles" types...they're green too!
How about the movie "The Birth of Christ"?
That happened in March, so it might make a better Easter event and you combine two celebrations in one!
If you are so inclined to watch that movie go right ahead, and by all means suggest it to others! I don't believe in the existence of "God" so it would not be included in my choice of suggestions..
Of course we're a banana republic. We have a Chiquita AG
Call the senator and thank him. At least he doesn't have to kiss either party's criminal mob-boss ass.
(202) 224-5141
+1
I would not be surprised if that were the case.
What I did see when out on black friday was lots of people walking around, but not a lot of people buying things (the videos of discount stores aside).
I wonder how "good" it really was.
The really sad thing here is that no one on ZH is actually talking about what Sanders had to say.
NoBull -- an elitist attitude sans elitist $$$$
this wealth siphoning upwards is all by design in a debt-based monetary system where certain men are allowed to counterfeit.
case-in-point, 7 of the 10 richest counties are in the DC area.
Tax more?!!
STARVE THE BEAST AND END THE FARCE.
http://www.zerohedge.com/forum/plot-enslave-you-0
If we're not a banana republic, then what kind of republic are we?
I vote for "Kool-aid republic". It's not a fruit of course, but it's synthetic and bloating and is sometimes laced with poison. You drink it and you change. That's America, we're all about that drinking the kool-aid kind of change.
You listening Bernie? Hope that helps.
Banana flavored Kool-aid Republic.
Many of us will come to envy people who have back-yard access to bananas in warmer climates. I love bananas straight up, in juice or smoothie, or in pancakes. I wonder how long I will need to miss them?
What a total f*%kstick this whole scam has become... I almost wish I could go back to being a sheep, it's disgusting to watch!
No going back now! You've seen too much for going back. Oh, and it only gets worse going forward.
Sucks to be awake, doesn't it?
You'd do better to raise sheep on a small farm. I agree with you, this whole sham is a disgrace - especially "mark-to-fantasy".
Its just fraud-marking,in fantasy there is an actual chance for the underdog. In the US, a tax break assures the underdog's demise.
Nothing but lies to cover up the cheating and stealing.
What has been seen can never become unseen.
Why oh why didn't I take the BLUE pill?
"You know, I know this steak doesn't exist. I know that when I put it in my mouth, the Matrix is telling my brain that it is juicy and delicious. After nine years, you know what I realize?"
[Takes a bite of steak]
"Ignorance is bliss."
Just a random thought. It'd be funny if someone would create a Matrix parody using the general storyline but w/ people from our "real" world instead in order to help explain what's going on in layman's terms that your average sheeple can simply grasp. The characters could be done in South Park animation style, by plastering real headshot pictures onto cartoon bodies (kind of like they did for Saddam Hussein). Tyler could play Morpheus, Bernanke could play Agent Smith, while Geithner/Summers/Greenspan could be other US govt agents. Paulsen, Blankfein, & other famous GS alums could have their heads attached to the squidees. Sub-titling for names would probably be needed to introduce the names/titles of new characters since your average Joe is not likely to know who each of these public figures are in real life. I'm sure that there are ample other analogies between the movie and real lie that more creative people could draw out, and that someone who's good at script-writing could form a cohesive story to tell. I'm sure there's some gold in them thar hills.
ha, ha. the blue pill is NOT the solution. although, these days, they are being pushed upon us from all directions. ha, ha.
I'd rather live in a vomitorium. This has all gone way past unlivable.
death before slavery.
http://www.zerohedge.com/forum/plot-enslave-you-0
Why didn't i take the blue pill...
You're right. The sheep in this country con't have to worry about anything and the tax payers provide for them everything they need. Sanders should also be complaing about the other side of the coin....people who happily spend their entire lives on welfare and teach their children to do the same.
The sheep in this country are the majority of the population for which most are not getting any free lunch. In fact the sheeple are overburdened by an increasingly inefective and oppresive ruling class. All the sheeple have no idea of the trouble that is likely to decend on them.
I know why people are always raggin' on welfare, its damn irritatin'. The fact is welfare as a portion of the budget is very small. I think Massachusetts pared down the welfare roles pretty well several years back when they instituted "workfare". Unless you are disabled you can only be on welfare for so long before you have to take what ever is available or you loose all your benefit.
The complacent public, the big banksters, the big wall streeters and Bernie Sanders' colleagues are all responsible for the mess. If the general public does not force the legal system to follow the existing laws, bringing the criminals to face justice, then it will become a free for all. We own the mind numbing Public School System. We own the law makers and policy makers. We own the courts, the FBI, Police. What do we do with something you own that is broken? You either get the right people to fix it and/or throw out what can't be repaired. How about we start with the tax code. It has to be thrown out and substituted with a three page document. Then the well paid IRS employees who are in reality on just a different form of the public dole can be retrained to work in health care. Then the IRS can actually be of service to us!!
I personally view our ever expanding bureaucracy as just a different kind of public welfare. We own the broken system and it is our Constitutional right to fix it. Don'tjust sit at your computer complaining about it, do something to make a difference.
What about the greed and power of Washington DC? Bernie ... hello ... Bernie. You stupid idiots let this go on and you can stop it any day. Bring on the hearings. You are a blow hard.
Bernie has little to no power to call hearings. He caucuses with the Democrats but he's not a registered Democrat. He calls himself a Democratic Socialist.
Makes no difference whether you believe you can get hearings or not ... Call for them or you are just like everybody else who is silent.
He had enough power to strip a full audit if the Fed during the May flash crash frenzy. Here is me questioning this sellout on radio - http://www.dailypaul.com/node/133879
Helped the Fed water down the audit and agreed to vote for Obamacare after enough goodies were waived in his face. Just another actor. Let's not give him a pass because he sounds good on an issue here and there. They all have to do that in order to stay in power. He was the sponsor of the audit in the senate. He's even worse than the House cosponsors who voted against the audit.
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/materials/HR1207-Shame-List.pdf
Thats the irony in all of this. D.C. is surpassing wall street as the wealthiest city in america. By orders of magnitude over the rest of the country.
Wall Street. "We have to compensate people excessively with TARP money because we are doing God's work."
Washington D.C. "We have to compensate people excessively via taxation and deficits because we are doing the peoples' work".
They don't have any choice paying for premium buerocrats when you are running a TheocraticNationalSocialism system of governance.
Theocratic?,there is nothing of God in that sin infested den of Iniquity.
Nationalist Socialist nails it pretty square.
And to think they are drawing up plans to deal with the American peoples insurrection,sheeesh.
WTF do they expect, a pat on the ass?.Or an Attaboy?.
Prince George's County borders Washington D.C. and is the wealthiest county in the U.S. with an African-American majority.
And . . . you left out the fucking punch line. Tell us what the average income of this AA majority county is and how it compares with other counties nationwide.
Don't leave such insane bullshit hanging like that.
Or did I miss a subtle hint about black people disproportionately draining the guv's tit?
What is this diversionary bullshit for?
Chill out Bob, just a little factoid. I'm not trying to stir the shit.
A good speech, but the root of the problem is that the politicians work for that top 1%. Bernie how about reminding the politicians that they are supposed to be working for the majority. The elite's agenda is impossible without the politicians being complicit.
I thought he made that quite clear. Listen to it again.
I did. His voting record supports most of what he is saying with the exception of voting for the watered down audit the FED legislation, and after his passionate speeches against the FED it looked like he threw Ron Paul's legislation out the window. He should be making more of a point that everything that is wrong with the system points back to the politicians and their greed and corruption.
Speaking of blow hards, did you miss the part about D.C. being a puppet of the wealthy elite?
It's funny that people call Obama a Socialist, when Sanders is actually the nearest thing to a real one in US politics.
one admits it, the other hides it. otherwise, same animal.
I respectfully disagree. Window dressing aside, Obama is simply another in a long line of finance fascists... or at least one who supports theagenda of the same. He and Sanders are vastly different animals, IMO. While I disagree with much of what Sanders stands for... I definitely think he is sincere in what he stands against (and I support him for that). That said, Sanders caved on the audit of the fed... that was troubling.
krid,
You nailed it.
DITTO, out of the park.
"Sanders caved on the audit of the fed... that was troubling"
That really is the true test of loyalities.
well... I could construct a position that an honest man thought he was doing the right thing... pushed for the only thing that he thought was possible. If I were willing to provide "the benifit of the doubt"... that would be it. I'm not sure what I believe.
Welcome to the club!
krid, you think Ohumma hides it?.
Its what you do, not what you say.
Actions speak louder than words.
Hides what? That he is a socialist? That's what I don't believe. He may fancy himself a Marxist as he contemplates the meaning of life... but as you say... it's what you do, now what you say (or think). The keys have been turned over to the fed/treasury. You could argue that this was done a long time ago, but things are far more transparent now. MSNBC vs. FoxNews... Dems vs. Republicans... Freedom Loving Tea Partiers vs. Obama Loving Marxists... I think it's all a distraction.
Greed vs. Entitlement
well, Bernie, we know socialism is not the answer....
Who would you trust at the Fed? Bernie Sanders or the Ben Bernank? I'll take Sanders every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
Even though oligarchy/cronyism isn't the power structure that I want, neither do I need socialism which Sanders is advocating. The people are forced to choose between two false idols. How about genuine CAPITALISM? You know risk and reward, incentives and disincentives, free market price discovery, etc.
What we have now is the ugly cousin to Socialism, which is designed to drain the wealth of the masses into a few pockets of unquenchable greed-thirst. What he is saying has nothing to do with socialistic redistribution of wealth. He's talking about our ongoing rape.
Yup... which IMO shows the success of our propaganda machine. People wrongfully believe that supporting the banks or corporations or ___________ is akin to support free markets. People face a false dichotomy... either you believe A. Business is evil and gov't is good or you believe B. Gov't is evil and business is good. One camp creates a mythology that is generally supportive of R's and the other creates a mythology that is generally supportive of D's.
great post. I'm am saddened though that so many don't get it.
kridkrid, who are you man?
wiser words never spoken on this site
very well done
I don't know about that. There used to be some excellent dialog here by some very intelligent people. Most have left or quit posting.
Probably because of threads like this. When things turn political all the left/right loonies who haven't figured out the scam yet, turn it into the Huffington Post or Fox Nation.
I think we need tougher math problems.
LOL
Make the math problems tougher and the comments will slant to the left.. Well known correlation.. Most educated people have come to the conclusion that a European influenced social democracy is the best form of government. Sorry, but that is just the way it is....
LOL.. Yea, go tell yourself another EU bedtime story. Better yet go tell your therapist!
We would miss your erudite comments Sb
Not when governments are corporations and corporations are government. This is reality, and your logic although sound, was valid in 1623.
R or D are just tickers on fraud street.
I think we are saying the same thing. Either way, I agree.
Yeah, really good stuff. I guess it makes it all the more interesting here that people cavil at what you say, but you've nailed the situation.
I begin to think the donkey & elephant are our life long stuffed animals. We all have one or the other and it's near and dear to us. We just can't give up our favorite stuffed animal no matter how much we learn and grow.
Hear this: the donkey is not progressive and the elephant is not conservative. They're both just toys stuffed with fluff.
R or D are just tickers on fraud street
I told someone this exact thing the other day. They looked at me like I'm nuts.
TPTB have done a great job at keeping the herd divided. I have hope, but not as much as I used to. So many are just so locked into their belief I don't think anything will get them out.
The purpose of a system is what it does:
Republicons in power: Spending goes up, Taxes go down and Freedom goes down.
Decepticrats in power: Spending goes up, Taxes go up and Freedom goes down.
Either way, the Nanny State smothers us all!
agreed. its all a charade when a private cartel charges an interest rate on a monopoly money supply. further, they can buy off anyone with what has become entirely counterfeited money. 7 of the 10 richest counties are in the DC metropolitan area. need we see more?
Most ZH keyboard commandos couldn't recognize corporate statism if it came up, politely introduced itself and bit them in the face.
The ugly, evil twin, cousin to Socialism is fascism. That's what we have.
Better Feudalism. The French know where this leads to.
+1776 to both of you. i completely agree.
I respectfully disagree - If Bernie Saunders is accused of Socialism what of Hank Paulson's bank rescue? Never was so much given to so few who did NOT EARN IT! Hank Paulson instituted a wealth redistristribution plan of EPIC proportions & in fairness it was to save the American Banking System because of the corruption that was & still exists - you cannot call Bernue Saunders a socialist without recognizing that he is attempting to rebalance a skewed & unjust reaction to the corruption on Wall St & Washington DC
Well written willien.
ZH keyboard commandos are just angry that someone they think of as a raging "socialist" stated the obvious rather than some imaginary libertarian hero.
Junked, troll.
Our real (not imaginary) "libertarian heros" have been stating the obvious on record for 20+ fucking years, where have you been? Bernie "Sell-out" Sanders can shove it - he does nothing but chatter and his solutions are rubbish. Why put the quotes around socialist - he IS a socialist in the true sense of the word; I've had a few conversations with him over the years, and he freely admits his leanings.
When comrade Sanders sends a check to the IRS in excess of what his accountant says is necessary, I will take his opinion into account. Until then, kindly STFU.
To clarify, you're OK with the top 1% earning 23.5% (more than the bottom 50%) of all income?
I'm fine with the statistic. I'm not okay with the way in which most of them went about attaining it.
The ends and the means cannot be separated. Lose the means and you lose the ends.
This because they are not captains of industry. Tthey are only pirates.
And the WHOLE congregation said AMEN! +1,000
you mean theft is not a business?
Of course it is a business! You know that. It's just not a business that everyone can engage in. You really need to be a raging sociopath to do well. And once the raging sociopaths are all in business they destroy everyone else. Then it's tears, lots of tears. Just look around you.
I don't know when, but a long time ago our wise ancestors decided that the best thing to do with sociopaths was kill them. Quickly. Then somewhere along the way -- I don't know, something changed -- we became (get this) "sympathetic" and stopped killing them for what they are. One thing led to another, and before you know it the sociopaths ascended into positions of leadership in government and industry. I think because they are driven to power and wealth to the exclusion of every other human impulse. You got one impulse, you go further and faster. All the way to the top, turns out.
Maybe I'm olde school. It seems now like the better idea really was just to kill them. Ah well, the road not taken...
BTW, I'm writing a Christmas story on that theme. The road -- retaken. Enter the unmaker. Woe unto man.
Twas the night before Congress
and all through the house
not a man could be found
only suits on a mouse
the citizens were hung by the taxcode with care
in hopes that St. Recovery soon would be there
The childrens college funds were dried up and dead
while visions of Walmart-jobs danced in their head
And mama with her night job and two under my strap
kept thinking I was stuck in a horrible trap.
On the Whitehouse lawn there arose such a clatter
"You said you would end the war, what the hell's the matter!?"
Away from your promise you flew with a sass
tore into your constituents and raped the middle class
Goldman goons at his breast saying when to stop and go
Gave the illusion of democracy to the citizens below
When, what to my exhausted eyes should appear
but a miniature senator saying things they didnt want to hear
That's the spirit.
Thanks.
Unmaker- a theme from Orson Scott Card, "The Seventh Son" series.
Unmaker- a theme from Orson Scott Card, "The Seventh Son" series.
How interesting! I may need to look that up.
We need better birth control.
Regardless of his politics, Bernie's passionate remarks concerning the dying middle class should be heeded...
"It's no insult to say that a dead man... is dead"
So you simply aren't going to listen to common sense then?
Yeah, I'm okay with it so long as it was earned honestly and not via the bankster/crony capitalist/unindicted co-conspirator route. I don't earn jack, but would sure as hell like to (if we had a currency that stays somewhere above Charmin). But dude, the top percentiles pay 40% of the tax in this country...I suppose you are fine with that. Nobody seems to address the inherent hypocrisy of this ruling class fuck stick who can blithely pass laws to redistribute the wealth of this nation - all the while enjoying the leisurely pursuits and trappings of his office. All paid for by you and me. Hatred of the rich boggles my mind. Why would anyone not want to be rich? It seems to me that the fuck puppies who disparage the rich are tantamount to those same douches I knew in high school that quit listening to a band they liked because they had a commericial success and "sold out". Yeah, other people liked it too. I guess that made them less special. Ass bags one and all.
[edit] and if anyone wants to stay poor, good for them. I'm a Libertarian, so do whatever you want, but go shake your cup elsewhere.
I've posted this before (in agreement with you):
[quote]
The problem with socialism is socialism, because there are no socialists.
Socialism is a system based upon an assumption about human nature that
simply isn't true. I can design a perfect canine community in which dogs
never chase squirrels or groom their nether regions in an indelicate manner.
But the moment I take that idea from the drawing board to the real world,
I will discover that I cannot get dogs to behave against their nature--at
least not without inflicting a terrible amount of punishment. Likewise,
it's easy to design a society that rewards each according to his need
instead of his ability. The hard part is getting the crooked timber of
humanity to yield to your vision.
And it's also why the problem with capitalism is capitalists. Some people
will always abuse the system and take things too far. Some will do it out of
the hubris of intellect. Some will do it out of the venality of greed.
I bring all of this up because many in Washington seem convinced that the
solution to the problem with capitalists is always less capitalism. To be
sure, a free-market society is in some sense a government program. The
government must prosecute criminality, enforce contracts, and demand that
the rules be observed. Few lovers of free markets are so laissez-faire as
to want to strip the government of its role as REFEREE.
But few should want the REFEREE to suit up and play the game.
[/quote]
Most eloquently said. My only addition is that those who pursue capitalism and do so with greed and hubris should be allowed, nay required, to suffer the consequences of same. I think we agree that the only solution is to strip the enablers of the gang raping of our economy and render them the eunuchs they should be - whether figuratively or literally. Enforcement is a fine concept, the problem perpetually remains that the enforcers almost inevitably become the executioners of liberty and freedom. The market, when left to it's natural progression does the enforcement ruthlessly, as well it should. Protection of property and contracts is all I ask. And maybe cheesecake.
Some people get by
With a little understanding
Some people get by
With a whole lot more
I don't know
Why you gotta be so undemanding
One thing I know
I WANT MORE!!!
- The Sisters of Mercy
Sanders is right about the Wall Street Lobby and their firm control on/over government.
He is wrong inasmuch as he claims raising taxes is any kind of solution to our problems.
Cutting spending is the only way out.
But that means real pain.
When I say cutting spending, I'm not talking fuzzy math - I'm talking real dollars in figures such as 25%, which means entitlements get dinged.
How come cutting military spending never comes up?
For the same reason that cutting Corporate Welfare never comes up!
Riddle me this.
Why in the hell should Americans take a haircut, when (Bernie beat Wiki), on letting us know over 9 Trillion dollars went over seas, to banks, to GE, and Harley(who is now thanking us by moving their mfg overseas).
They are having a Maniacal Fit to cut the soverign citizens retirements to shreds, but we bail out the Irish, the Swiss, and anyone else who asks?.
Call the Fed and see if you can get a 60 billion $ loan at under 1%.
They expect US to suck it up, while they act like money grows on trees, and take care of everyone except US?.
Screw them.We are IDOTS if we allow this to happen.
IDIOTS.
If we had HONEST MONEY and RULE OF LAW, none of this would have happened.
Hmm ... maybe. There is a lot that greed can do even if everything is running like clockwork. Taxes aren't usually an issue for the rich, for example. But yes, no laws and no honesty anywhere at any level sure did make that greed thing easy to run with, didn't it?
I keep reminding myself that a lot of this wealth is on paper. Most of that paper is tied to stock prices and bond yields. Wouldn't be too hard to unwind all that paper. Nope.
At this point, I'd settle for RULE OF LAW...which would take care of the rest.
chicken and egg
"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws."
-Mayer Amschel Rothschild
It ALL distills down to these two core (I would add PRIVATE PROPERTY) principles. Everything else is noise.
and Vermont has a per capita income of ___?
Is that guy dead in the back row ?
AMEN! THANK GOD that there is ONE SENATOR who gets it! Finally! Go Bernie! God Bless him!
+1 (%)
I am sick of the class warfare by people like Sanders. Put up or shut up, Senator. If there are people who are profiting through illegal means, then toss them in prison. Start with Bernanke, Paulson and Geithner.
There are plenty of other "wealthy" people who have earned every penny through hard and honest work, who also employ hundreds/thousands of others. Painting the "rich" with the same tar paintbrush is posturing and its dishonest. There is a big difference between a small business owner and a Goldman croney.