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Senator Lindsay Graham Warns Of War With Iran, Confrontation With "Cheating" China
With republicans back in control, it was only a matter of time before the military-industrial complex reminded the world of its existence. It took about 72 hours: republican senator Lindsay Graham, who apparently has not received the memo that all modern wars are now waged in binary, and are won by those who can push the FX bid/ask the furthest and the fastest away from equilibrium, spoke at the Halifax International Security Forum, giving a very distinct taste of what US foreign policy is about to look like: "Iran is a major threat to any conceivable world order" and that he sees an almost inevitable confrontation with Iran. As AP reports, the South Carolina Republican saw the United States going to war with
the Islamic republic "not to just neutralize their nuclear program, but
to sink their navy, destroy their air force and deliver a decisive blow
to the Revolutionary Guard, in other words neuter that regime." And the Democrats, still in shock over their recent pummelling, will likely not have the resolve to respond palliatively to such warmongering, which they likely deem as supported by the broad population: "US Democratic Senator Mark Udall, who joined Graham during a panel
discussion at the forum in Halifax, Nova Scotia, urged continued
sanctions against Iran. But he also noted that "every option is on the
table," a thinly veiled reference to possible military action." And just when the world was getting along so well, and all the international bickering appeared to be taking place over various Forex terminals...
More from AP:
The United States faces a possible war with Iran to curb its nuclear ambitions and a "period of confrontation" with China over its currency, a top US lawmaker warned Saturday.
Republican Senator Lindsey Graham said his fellow conservative, fresh from their historic elections romp this week, support "bold" action to deal with Iran.
If President Barack Obama "decides to be tough with Iran beyond sanctions, I think he is going to feel a lot of Republican support for the idea that we cannot let Iran develop a nuclear weapon," he told the Halifax International Security Forum.
"The last thing America wants is another military conflict, but the last thing the world needs is a nuclear-armed Iran... Containment is off the table."
Furthermore, the fact that Iran recently converted 15% of its $100Bn+ in reserves into gold did not win it any brownie points with the global central banking cartel.
Yet perhaps war may be avoidable:
Democrats may gain surprise support for continued diplomacy from some ultra-conservative Tea Party newcomers to Washington who diverge on foreign policy matters with their Republican brethren.
Various UN resolutions and sanctions have sought to halt Iran's uranium enrichment activities, so far having little effect.
Then again, maybe not. It has been a while since assorted logistic and military airplane manufacturers reported blowout quarters. Time to change that.
And if Graham has his way, soon the US may need to send an aircraft carrier or 17 over to the South China Sea.
Graham also warned of a forthcoming "period of confrontation" with China over its "cheating" currency manipulation.
US and European lawmakers have called for a stronger Chinese currency as their economies struggle to recover from the global financial crisis. US lawmakers claim the yuan is grossly undervalued and causes global trade imbalances.
Several countries ranging from Japan to Colombia have intervened in recent weeks to make their currencies cheaper in the hope of exporting their way out of the downturn, fueling fears of a global currency war.
Currency tensions boiled over at the recent annual meetings of the International Monetary Fund in Washington, with China rejecting calls for a quick revaluation.
Surely, those cheating Chineses will be delighted to be called cheats again, just two days after advisors to the PBoC called unbridled printing of dollars "the biggest risk to the global economy and said China should use currency policy and capital controls to cushion itself from external shocks." We can't wait to read the glowingly favorable, two thumbs up rebuttal in tomorrow's China Daily.
Perhaps before we hit the launch button, we should familiarize ourselves with the following chart which shows that for the first time ever China is now ahead of the US in number of warships.
Last but not least, we are eagerly awaiting the release of a tape by Al Qaeda, spotlighting bin Laden's congratulations to the republican party over their victory.
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Every guy will be forced into this mentality. I'm simply preparing myself early.
Be careful, the internet is forever.
You should read this in its entirety:
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t4359/
Before you post anything, remember that words have consequences, both for you and others. This is true even if they're posted pseudonymously on a discussion board.
Don't post anything you wouldn't want attributed to you in a court of law, quoted on the front page of the New York Times, or read by your mother. Don't come back in a few months or years and ask us to delete all your posts because you can't take the heat or you've "changed your mind." It wouldn't make much difference anyway, since public posts are cached by search engines and recorded by countless other people with varying motives.
LOL
Yeah, I'll be tried before a court of law because I posted some random bullshit on a website.
There are far bigger fish for TPTB to fry; they're not worried about some 22 year old punk.
In addition to this, the internet is going down in a few years, anyway. Didn't you hear about the internet kill switch? Think outside of your minuscule box.
The world as we know it is coming to an end, as described on this very website, and you think I'm worried about what the law thinks? You think I'm worried that this is public? LOL. Idiot.
Don't let your alligator mouth overcome your tweety bird ass.
Why don't you give another couple minutes to that question and get back to us? Remember, suicide is an option.
I've considered suicide, but I would rather kill other people instead.
Back up your insults. Otherwise, you are a moron.
Get to it then.
Can't til war starts, obviously.
In response to this horseshit that people call the "land of opportunity," I've developed a very simple philosophy for life:
Kill men, rape women.
What other choice do I have?
Let me spell it out for you, then. You have clearly lost your humanity, given the "philosophy" you have embraced. Yet you left out a viable option for your predicament and asked for advice. I offered it.
Suicide can be painless, friend. It might be infinitely more productive, however, if you took out a few banksters in the process.
You are living on soil stolen from "Indians." As an American, you are responsible for their deaths and confinement on "reservations." The red man is a shadow of his former self, because of you and I, and we celebrate it every November.
History is one of violence. You are essentially claiming to be more human than Napoleon, more human than Alexander, more human than Ramses, more human than Genghis.
LOL. You are an arrogant buffoon.
You're a miserable soul looking to inflict your pain on as many others as you can . . . via the fucking internet.
Arrogance? You don't mean to be ironic, do you?
Find yourself a place and a cause in the real world, son. One worth living in and suffering for.
You don't see war coming? Are you a fucking idiot?
I hear the drums of war alright. But I've lived long enough to know the world is more complicated than you seem to realize. Which only makes sense at 22 . . . I was there once, too.
I remember at that age, however, being willing to fight only for things that could make an honorable claim upon my life. I hope your generation examines that same issue with some conscience before they embrace a nihilistic orgy of murderous violence.
Good luck to you.
What do I have to fight for?
The country I currently live in will send me to an internment camp.
The country of my ethnic origin is monopolized by a party my grandfather spent his entire life fighting against.
Tell me, what do I have to fight for, in this joke of a world?
My generation's imagination is atrophied. Someone used the term "jersey shore generation." It fits. I will enjoy killing them.
Why not just have at it and beat the Christmas rush?
The enemy is the enemy. Don't become like them harming innocents. Kill them.
There are no innocents.
you need to take your infantile fantasies over to Yahoo because you are not in your peer group here mr idiot executioner
this discussion, if you can call it that, is totally disgusting
Right, because bloodlust = stupidity, right?
You Americans are seriously pathologically retarded. You equate completely unrelated modes of thought such as bloodlust and racism with lack of intellect.
So, Genghis' fantasies were infantile? Hitler's goals were infantile? Ramses, stupid? Really???
You need to grow a pair, faggot. I think you are the one out of your intellectual depth here, son.
Suicice, rape, murder......neither will serve you or others well friend. Harness that anger, get it under control, and do something good with the energy. It takes a much larger set of balls to practice compassion over violence.
I'm not angry; I'm simply realistic.
I AM doing good: good for me.
Why should I practice compassion over violence? So someone who is violent can come and take / tax my shit? Fuck that bullshit, I want to be the taxer, not the taxee. In order to accomplish this, violence is necessary; haven't you ever read The Prince?
Think outside of the box, son.
"I AM doing good: good for me."
Yes, but before long, in a very short amount of time, you'll be fucked. Your violent actions will live on in those whom you've committed violence upon, their families, friends, societies etc.
You can't possibly ask, with a closed, violent mind, for someone else to think outside the box. Open yours to the consequences of action first......
You are equating a violent mind with a closed mind.
So you're saying that Alexander the Great had a closed mind? Really now?
Man is violent. Really, open your mind.
Man is violent. Learn how to fight. MMA highly recommended. Train hard, kick ass, get your ass kicked. Channel the violence, get control of yourself and learn how to control your anger...But think this rape thing through, no woman deserves that, and quite frankly, if it were up to me, I would have convicted rapists executed. And I would certainly kill any man I found raping a woman. FWIW....
I'm glad we both agree that slaughter is glorious.
Think outside of the box, son.
So you've given up on rape?
Of course not.
But you said, "outside the box." Don't forget there's a substantial penalty for early withdrawal.
You are quite witty, so I'm not sure whether you're serious, trolling, or half and half. I do know that you not entirely retarded though, which is quite rare, even on this website.
Would you honestly like to hear the logic behind the latter portion of my philosophy?
...well, not true if he happens to suicide bomb at Jekill Island this week. Or at the nearest Federal Reserve Governors meeting. Or GS headquarters.... If the young man has dreams of destruction....just saying....
Killing a few men won't solve any problems. Many must be killed; thusly, suicide bombing would be a bad decision, because it would restrict my capabilities for further slaughter.
yeah, but just think of all the good you could do by targeting those few very powerful men. Killing the milkman, or a thousand, raping the corner bint, or a thousand would be forgotten in a few years. But killing the top bankers in the world, now that would make you famous. And who knows, it might motivate other young men to do the same. In your name. Give it some thought ;-)
No. Millions must die. Humanity has severe stupidity and overpopulation problems.
This can only be cured through expansion into space; however, we need one world government before that happens.
This will not occur in your lifetime, and since my generation is full of jersey shore dimwits, the job falls on my shoulders.
You obviously don't understand the nature of ruling families and dynasties! The plans for the current takeover already go back a number of generations.
No point with no oil.
Also, cultural hedonism has sapped the American elites' will to greatness, which includes recognition of importance of family. In American society, it's all about "I" (which is, interestingly, the 9th letter of the alphabet [9 is the true number of the beast]. Also, the Koran states that the Devil has one eye, which is well portrayed by the actual writing of the letter "i"), a mentality which I believe has afflicted the elites, as well.
Again, your focus is too narrow. "They" (the master globalist planners) are principally not American. The "American elites" you speak of are just useless idiots who think they are in the know and are doing what they are told because they are making money before the whistle blows to jump ship.
While "they" have you jumping up and down itching to go and kill brown people on the other side of the globe, they are setting up a police state in America that will trap and enslave every American to pay off the IOUs that Timmaay is signing on behalf of every living American and all their progeny. The more Ben prints, to fight wars, the more you owe him!
As I said in another thread: Make no mistake, while you are planning another war elsewhere, the destruction and enslavement of the US is underway. The US has served its purpose and the circus is moving on. But most of those in what those on here call "the elites" have no comprehension of what the consequences to them and their families will be.
In typically American fashion, most commenters here think that the public faces -- the Dimons, Bernankes, Blankfeins, Obamas, etc -- are the planners. They are not. They are simply appointed officials, with no security of tenure, who are in on the scam but are entirely disposable at any time they step out of line. Bernanke serves at the whim of the oligarchs. Blankfein serves at the whim of the oligarchs. Buffet and Gates prosper at the whim of the oligarchs. The members of Bilderberg and the CFR are invited at the whim of the oligarchs.
Those useful idiots who have sufficiently enriched themselves -- the corporate executives, Wall Street players, elected representatives and appointed officials -- will escape to their offshore boltholes, but most of their families and supporters will be too poor, too dumb or too obstinate to leave until it is too late.
For example, the body and vehicle scanners at every airport and border crossing are not there to detect terrorist bombs, they are there to ensure that -- after the cutoff date, whenever that may be (my guess is late 2012, but things are moving so fast now that they may have to bring it forward to retain control) -- nobody leaves the country with hidden PMs or currency. The laws prohibiting farmers' markets and sales of home-grown food are not there to protect your health, they are there to allow them to control the quantity and content of foods that you will be permitted to eat. The planned electronic money system is not being introduced to stabilise currencies, it is to ensure that you won't have, or be able to spend, a single cent unless you are fully submissive to their rule.
The only hope for America to defeat the oligarchs at this very late stage is for a complete change in paradigm ... away from a central government and back to individual sovereign states, each with their own militia and currency -- and powers limited to protecting the individual rights of their citizens. The oligarchs can't herd 50 cats with 300 million kittens, but they can control anyone who is controlled from Washington, DC.
Read 'Atlas Shrugged' and you will understand why most of those destroying the system from within will actually go down with the ship.
You need to get your shit together and stop salivating over going to war elsewhere!!
The best question to be posed is would you happen to have a list of these "oligarchs"? Last names would be fine, Rothschilds and...
Here you go:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/184QQFdCAHRkFfqR1XeLc3sZXhdHuIxllYgLU...
That's too America-centric and only covers the final chapters of a long history. It also mentions none of the important old families.
So, what are the important families?
I know of Rothschild, Rockefeller, and Cohen. You seem very knowledgeable; do share.
From what I have been able to piece together over the last 10+ years, You are dead on sir.
I'm aware of the oligarchs. They will be safe in underground palaces during nuclear warfare.
I only salivate over such an apocalyptic vision because it's inevitable; the end of oil will be very, very upsetting. I plan on profiting greatly from it.
And no, I'm not in the military lol.
"Life is what happens to you when you're busy making other plans." - Lennon
So you're saying that I shouldn't plan for the end of the industrial age?
I'm saying that you should have your prescription refilled as soon as possible.
Be cautious, your not in the military yet !!! Draft time soon ???
A very crebible analysis, What you say, (Because you say it), must be known to the opposing "Master Global Planners" who compete with the "Master Global Planners" who control the elites which control us, There must be at least two groups or else all resistance could be simply "planned" away.If they know we are coming, and of course they do know, and have known for along time we would eventually be coming, they must have and be, making their preparations for the, seemingly, inevitable conflict which will be visited upon mankind. They, as defenders are less bellicose in their actions and manner, but they must surely have a surprise or two awaiting us.
I believe, money will be the catalyst which starts things, the destruction of civilisation will be the out come, hello dark future for survivers!
Competition is everywhere ... even at the top. Much can go wrong for globalist planners when/if they come close to success as they also jostle for the top position on the totem pole and begin to stab each other in the back.
Another aspect of attempts at central planning is unforseen problems and unintended consequences. This is not the first time they have thought they were on the home stretch and is, hopefully, unlikely to be the last.
I don't believe there will be global nuclear war ... and I don't believe they're planning for one. It is the fear of global nuclear war that keeps the masses in line. There are other means available now to significantly reduce global populations without taking such scorched-earth measures that could render the planet uninhabitable for thousands of years.
What are these other means you speak of?
Also, I believe you fail to consider the contingency of peak oil around 2030.
Well said.
I was just talking to a friend of mine a few days ago that the airport scanners may have to do with currency controls, more than anything. Some people in Christian forums have even stated that the Gulf oil disaster had to do with cutting off escape routes for people wanting to leave CONUS with cash & PMs. Looks like professional pirates will be in demand again. Escaping USA with cash & PMs--what a rush! But, where to?
Reading that book will be on my short list. I do, however, read some of Ellen White's prophecies regarding USA and they are indeed spooky.
Be well.
Yahweh Yireh.
never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee..."
Dup
I'll tell ya whats insane.
Bill Clintons Admin, giving the Chi Coms the ability to nuke anywhere, and as accurately as WE can, when the Dumb Son of a Bitch gave them access to our Cray Super computer technology.
Prior to that brilliant (seditious) move they barely had the technology to hit California's coast.
Or, the extreme NE Coast..................
Now, thanks to the Dems, they can put one in your damn backyard.Neo Cons my ass.
Someone should kindly inform these peopel (a.k.a. Assholes) that we could very well lose that confrontation.
They are getting ready to pull a trigger, that's why they didn't care about the printing press disease.
How long?
Shit. They win even when they lose. Israel could get smoked, however. A true empire neocon doesn't give a shit about Israel. They use it to their advantage.
SCADA Exploitz Bitchez!
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/metasploit-and-scada-exploits-dawn-of...
Sounds dire. I wish to hell I knew what they were talking about.
The world of stuxnet-level warfare is a new and expanding frontier.
As pertains to the ZH article on Stuxnet.
Basically he's saying that SCADA exploits did not get the attention that they deserved. Metasploit included it into their pen testing library so the script kiddies now have their hands on it. Yawn. It's another windows based exploit, stack overflow.
Here is the location of the exploit code, compile it using MS VC++ and point it at your favorite target;
http://www.securiteam.com/windowsntfocus/5UP0W00PFW.html
The ability to send complex societies back to the stone age without firing a single shot or dropping a single bomb.
PB, absolutely correct. I would drop the A.K.A....they are simply assholes that have seen too many stupid war movies and have never spent a day in any military, much less a shooting war.
I'm wondering if a few fed-up ex-military Dads with sniper experience may have a new response to these folks sending their sons off to war on behalf of a known criminal bankster syndicate.
You never know.
That is one twisted fucker......refering to the Senator from
Oh, them Cheatin' Chineez! Gots to watch 'em ever damn minute!
PLEASE tell me that's not all we're gonna get out of this election...
Mo' pieces o'silvah, mo' pieces o'eight
Yea ! Way to pump up the Red Army !! Yea baby !
You fucking dumb hick.
You don't get out much, do you?
American shell game is going on. Republicans do not understand that people do not like these POS scoundrels. Republicans got elected just because people hated Obama, Pelosi, and democrats even more.
The both major US political parties are utterly corrupt, intellectually bankrupt, incompetent, and disgusting.
The USA, once a super-superpower, is very sick having a terminal cancer. It is not in a position to be involved in another major war in the Middle East. Too many countries are looking for an opportunity to stub America in a back at a first available opportunity.
The USA, once a super-superpower, is very sick having a terminal cancer. It is not in a position to be involved in another major war in the Middle East.
I think you might be wrong and not just in the Middle East.
Too many countries are looking for an opportunity to stub America in a back at a first available opportunity.
Few political leaders stand up to the banksters' corporatocracy and those that do are vulnerable.
This will get interesting.
debate me, junking bozo
Yep, and the boys and girls playing have been warned that
a) all they get to stub is their toes, nothing else, and
b) when it a back, well, it ain't gonna be their nor U.S. backs getting stubbed.
They are kinda careful and, despite IEDs, getting more careful by the minute.
- Ned
Grahamnesty is a DIABLO and republicans can't wait to dump the sell-out bastard.
This is simply unbelievable. If we go full tilt bozo on Iran we would instantly be under attack in Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Israel. We would have to mobilize 4/5 of the entire fleet. 5 carrier groups. They would immediately start attacking shipping toward the Kuait and UAE loading points. If we go too far into the straight to protect those assets they might be able to dust up one or two of the carriers. If that happened the Chinese would be free to do whatever they wanted in their territorial waters which include Taiwan. Very dangerous business.
There will be military conscription of able bodied men. What kind of political climate would allow the politicians or whomever is left to institute that policy?
The same people who ran the Vietnam, Korean and a majority of the other wars. This AVF shit is a recent historical development meant to replace civilian military with mercenaries. That was the primary lesson for the military types out of the Vietnam war. They obviously did not learn ANYTHING ELSE. Nevertheless all the court decisions are still on the books and the draft was held to be constitutional as a tax on the life of the citizens. Did you know that? The government has a right to to tax you out of your life. That was the holding.
PB: Do you have a court case #? I'd love to read that decision. I find that argument incredible! Milestones
Dude when I was a punk kid everyone was being drafted to go to Vietnam. I saw what it was like. Try and look up the draft lottery on you-tube. Interesting images. Talk about the ultimate reality show. Let's play who goes to Vietnam. EVERYBODY was tuned to that station. Every male my age knew their "number." Your mistake is that you earnestly believe the system could never revert to this. I am here to tell you that it can and easily will if it needs to.
I think this time will be different. The banksters are up against the wall and rather than surrender control of this country's military capabilty (which is all that protect's the bankster dollar) they will castrate all domestic political opposition with a mushroom cloud false flag. I hat to be a prophet of doom or anything else but I am seriously considering the possibility.
It's possible.
It won't happen again unless we are attacked, and I don't mean 9-11 style. You watched I went. I was drafted before they had those stupid numbers. The mood then was that if we continued the draft the government, run by leftist Dems under LBJ, they would continue to use cannon fodder to forward their ends.
After killing a hell of a lot of Americans and many more Asians (viets, cams, thais, yards, etc.) people began to realize what a joke the draft was. That's what will prevent that from happening again.
But we are starting to die off. Those that didn't experience the draft may see their grandkids experience it.
My gramma always said we should keep out of the draft or we'd catch cold.
I'm thinking that Gramnesty is doing his Ackmadinnerjacket thing. The adults are still in charge. On both sides.
Taiwan? Family is Family, Politics is Politics, Business is Business. There are direct flights today Shanghai-Taipei. Not to say that there is no serious "practice" ongoing.
- Ned
dp
Got to get all those Active, Guard and reserve folks overseas so ObamaCorps can "protect" us here at home. Will the Fed monetize war bonds?
Hell, at National Review, I think it was, they mocked the idea that Lindsey Graham is even a republican. They said something to the effect that in light of the midterm election results, even Lindsey Graham will be talking like a conservative.
You know... the left has Krugman... we have Lindsay Graham.
There are always loose screws on both sides of the teetertotter. Obviously the left doesn't have a monopoly on idiots.
+++
Idiots everywhere. No problem: buy gold!
Haha, I couldn't agree more! Silver for us poor folk!
I think one could debate the "control" question
Graham needs to shut his pie hole. He's in serious need of attention and we should not give it to him.
+100
I am amused that the newnew brings the oldold playbook right back out.
There is zero political will to tackle the real issues facing the United States, so lets just start another war in the mid-east and call the US's biggest creditor, "cheating currency manipulators" (because we all know bernanke's QE2 is merely monetary policy).
Hard to believe genius like that gets elected, over, and over again.
Must have a lot more to say about the mentality of the voters than the elected, Lizzy........or at least the ones who do vote.
I agree with your take.......it is pretty fubar.......wild child tells political stories that shock the devildolls and smokin bunny.
Dang, Lizzy, someone junked you.
Must have been your comment about genius. Go figure.
I think you need a good course in "getting over being really, truly naive." ;-)
- Ned
Graham is on the list for retirement with the next elections
He's already been playing the Davos card for a new job
"Lindsay Graham, who apparently has not received the memo that all modern wars are now waged in binary, and are won by those who can push the FX bid/ask the furthest and the fastest away from equilibrium"
This is another uneducated opinion that pisses me off. Every day or at least twice a week from a drone that nobody can see nor hear a missile comes down on a car, a house a group of men standing on the street or whatever and kills everyone within 120 yards. Boom. Literally one second all you can hear are crickets and the next second (the missiles are just slightly supersonic) everyone's dead. So you really think that when we are waging that kind of war daily they are going to limit their attacks to a bunch of keyboards????? What about a 1 MGT air-burst above your metro which would fry all the keyboards and every other device that had power to it when the weapon went off. God these people make me mad. They are going to get us all killed and all I hear are these little piffy adolescent statements very much reminicent of the the collegial chatter immediately preceding WWI where an entire generation of men were slaughtered. It will be a short war a kind of sport really. We will fight it with keyboards and be back to work the next day. Sound familiar? Are you REALLY THAT FUCKING STUPID? If we start this the dead could well number in the hundreds of millions including millions ofyour precious Americans.
I think you need to work on your reading comprehension because you went on an entirely different tangent than what the statement you quoted implies.
My point in simple language is that people who think war can be limited a gentlemen's war they used to call it, are either not sane or uneducated. The fact that you could not discern that from my post indicates that you are a person who has difficulty thinking in the abstract.
and I think you need to work on your Damage Effectiveness Tables, learn to love cep, and know that no one who knows anything expresses anything in "yards."
Please let all of us know your understanding of "literally." We really want to understand.
- Ned
My apologies for using imperial measurements there Ned. All that is indicative of is a difference in age. As far as sloppy writing is concerned what is "cep" Ned? Do you mean C.E.P. abbreviated in the technical literature as CEP always capitalized? If you were really as smart as you pretend you are then you would know that. So tell me Ned when was the last possible date I could have been in college to still use imperial measurements as my base language? You should already have the answer to your own question. Also go look at the original MX CEP estimates and tell me what units they are in Ned. I have never seen a CEP estimate on a Hellfire missile but I am sure it is quite impressive as meaured in meters.
caps lock police, lovin' it. Metric? Only since NATO was, well NATO. [ed.] You're not very current, are you? - Ned
"ned" "NED" "N.E.D." got owned.
Unfortunately a one megaton airburst would be wishful thinking if our friends from the Middle Kingdom lost their way. Chinese warheads on ICBMs are reportedly 5 megaton devices and they target major US cities with about 20 of these devices.
No worries about keyboards, EMP or anything else for that matter.
The most likely scenario is that we would be the ones doing the one megaton air-burst or other ERW in response to their asymetric computer attacks. The point is that these things once they get rolling tend to deflagrate. They have a real bad habit of getting real big and real nasty real fast and once lit there is usually no way to stop them.
Alex Nostradamus Jones has been saying this all along.
It is my hope that the US fails miserably in any war. That we are defeated and sent packing. That our leaders are prosecuted for war crimes and that our government falls. It is truly tragic that it has come to that.
We are the Hitlers and Stalins of the 21st century. Egged on by the Israelis, our leaders are creating a world where no American can stand with honor or integrity. They have stolen our best attributes and turned them into our worse nightmares.
We prosecute war in every arena for the benefit of whom? Bankers? We impoverish and poison. We enable the criminal minds of every political ally. We kill our own people with impunity and defend the murderers (BP).
People still talk about parties, as if it means anything. You are shills or morons.
America needs Americans to stand up and say no. Call your sons and daughters home- say no. Choose your community over wall street- say no to profits at the expense of your neighbor. There is another road, it is paved with the strength of Americans, dedicated to the natural rights of all people, lighting the way to liberty.
There is another road, it is paved with the strength of Americans, dedicated to the natural rights of all people, lighting the way to liberty.
Those were the dreams of people like Thomas Jefferson, Andrew Jackson, Abe Lincoln and JFK (i'm leaving lots of others out).
I fear it is too late for that dream.
Abe Lincoln, are you kidding?
Probably just another victim of the public school system.
I actually attended a private school but that's not the point. This is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USGSOViaulc&feature=related
Dishonest Abe was a scoundrel of the worst sort and is more responsible than most historical figures for the current state of affairs: an unchecked, out-of-control federal government.
As far as this particular anti-banker myth:
"My politics are short and sweet, like the old woman's dance. I am in favor of a national bank . . . in favor of the internal improvements system and a high protective tariff."
Greenbacks came from Congress - legal tender laws in 1862 and 1863. Linconln's opinion of this fiat money? He sent a letter to Congress expressing his "sincere regret that it has been found necessary to authorize an additional issue of United States notes."
Lincoln's "solution"? The National Bank Acts of 1863 and 1864, which only served to further nationalize and centralize the country's banking system.
Yeah that fugitive slave act was a real act of compassion wasn't it. Dearest Abe was a dyed in the wool impearialist. He needed that big nation to crush the Indians, Mexicans, Hawaiians, Philipinos ect. Couldn't do it with a small little nation of Northern colonies. Had to have the whole continent.
(Lincoln) Had to have the whole continent.
He traded his left hemisphere for it.
Excellent post.
BTW, America has been getting it's azz kicked since the 'UN Police Action' vs N Korea.
When did we win one, other than that tough fight in Panama and that overwhelming military power house Granada. LOL
Any conflict that requrires US aircraft carriers to project power is very risky business. The loss of ONE carrier will reveal the vulnerability of the remaining carrier groups. Navy admirals are well aware of the possibilities. No carrier will withstand the onslaught of a bevy of 3,000+ MPH Sunburns coming over the horizon, less than 50 feet over the water. Over the horizon to impact less than 13 seconds!
Carriers are now as vulnerable to various new missle and torpedo technology as battleships were to air power in WW2. Top navy brass know this.
Now there are two types of ships. Submarines and targets....and the Persian Gulf is too shallow for effective submarine use.
The chicken shit neo cons better do some real hard thinking about what the strategic military world would be like if US aircraft carriers projecting power were no longer an option.
Far better to work out a new world economic model than to pick through the rubble of WW3 looking for loved ones.
+1 on the Sunburns, bad MOFO's, terminal phase has them jinking if I remember correctly in 8-10 ' hops up to 150 g manuevers, phalanx will not get them all...
Hey you, it's been a while :)
Train is running late on the schedule, but dammit, it's right on the tracks still.
Agreed on Navys and add further, both Tactical & Strategic gap: USA Subs vs Chinese Subs [Not even gonna START vs Russian Subs PLUS Russian Missile defense edge, or everybody goes suicidal--LOL :( ...]
Meanwhile, in the land of stupidity
http://projectworldawareness.com/2010/11/the-pentagon-asks-nato-to-draw-up-plans-for-attacking-iran/
AND FOR FUCK'S SAKE:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/29/AR2010102907404.html <------- I mean c'mon, seriously. FOR FUCK'S SAKE
Plus China's got a new 1000m specialized anti-ship cruise missile.
:(
ps: I support Military action vs Iran if for no other reason than for the simple fact that Israel *WILL* do it, one way or the other, AND FAIL. The longer action is postponed, the worst it's going to be.
ps: I support Military action vs Iran if for no other reason than for the simple fact that Israel *WILL* do it, one way or the other, AND FAIL. The longer action is postponed, the worst it's going to be.
Right. Israel is at quite a disadvantage having only three hundred or so nukes to Iran's zero.
April 23, 2010
Fred Reed,
I wonder whether Americans realize that they have a Vienna-sausage military at filet-mignon prices. The sorry performance in recent wars is just one example of the ongoing rot, but the whole enterprise has become unbalanced, aimed at fighting the kinds of enemies we don’t have instead of the ones we have recently chosen to make.
The Navy is a fine example. The carrier battle group, the heart of the Navy, is a hugely expensive way to get relatively few combat aircraft to a remote place. It is a relic of World War II, for which it was well suited. Since it was then fighting similar battle groups, the strengths and weaknesses were more or less matched.
But the Navy has not fought a war for sixty years, certainly not one it needed to win, and it shows. Today’s battle groups, CVBGs as we say, are almost indistinguishable from those of 1945, except for the upgrading of weapons. Instead of five-inch-thirty-eights, we have Standard missiles. Instead of F4F Hellcats, the F-18 Hornet. Yet the carrier is still the Mother Ship, protected by screens of cruisers and destroyers, with interceptors flying CAP. The problem is that the enemy has changed.
Bear in mind that a great many countries fear attack by the United States, among them such trivial nations as Russia, China, and Iran. None of these has the money to build carrier groups to oppose those of the Navy.
All of these have thought about cheap ways to overcome the US behemoth. Four solutions soon came to hand:
Any military buff knows that the Navy cannot defend itself against these. It says it can. It has to say it can. In fleet exercises against submarines, the subs always win—easily. The Pentagon has been trying to invent defenses against ballistic missiles since the days of Reagan (remember Star Wars?) with miserable results. If you have close friends in the Navy, ask them over a few beers what scares the bejesus out of them. Easy: Swarms of fast, stealthy, sea-skimming cruise missiles with multi-mode terminal guidance.
Add to the brew that today’s ships are fragile, based on the assumption that they will never be hit. Go aboard a WWII battleship like the Iowa, BB-61 (I have) and you will find sixteen-inch belt armor and turrets designed to withstand an asteroid strike. Now go aboard a Tico-class Aegis boat (I have). You will find an electronic marvel with big screens in a darkened CIC and an amazing SPY-1 phased-array radar that one burst of shrapnel would take out of commission for many months.
Now note that cruise missiles have ranges in the hundreds of miles. Think: Persian Gulf. A cruise missile can be boxed and mounted on a truck, a fast launch, or a tramp steamer. The Chinese ballistic missile has a range of 1200 miles, enough to keep carriers out of aircraft range of Taiwan. I wonder whether the Chinese have thought of that?
In short the day of surface navies seems to be coming to a close, at least as strategically decisove forces. So does the day of the manned fighter as Predator-style “drones” improve.
What happens now? Nothing—for the moment.
To understand the problem, assume for the moment that the Navy knew beyond doubt, and openly admitted in internal discussion, that it could not protect its surface ships from modern anti-ship missiles. What would it do? What could it do?
Nothing. Why? Because, apart from the missile submarines, which have no role in combat, the Navy is the surface fleet. Many, many billions of dollars are invested in carriers and careers, in escorts for carriers, in countless men trained to run them. Mothball the carriers, and the Navy becomes a few troop ships useful for unopposed landings. Maintaining a large fleet only to support the Pentagon’s preferred role of massacring half-armed peasants would just be too costly.
So: Does the Navy say to Congress, “We really aren’t of much use any longer. We suggest that you scrap the ships and put the money into something else”? Mankind doesn’t work that way. The appeals of tradition, ego, and just plain fun run high. (Never underestimate the importance of ego and fun in military policy.) A CVBG is a magnificent thing, just not very useful. The glamor of night flight ops, planes trapping ker-whang!, engines howling at full mil, thirty knots of wind over the flight deck, cat shots throwing fighters into the air—this stuff appeals powerfully to something deep in the male head. The Navy isn’t going to give this up.
Thus it can’t admit that its day comes to a close, whether it knows it, suspects it, or refuses to think about it. The carrier is forever. Unless one gets sunk.
Which (I suspect) is unlikely, because the admirals won’t risk the test. I don’t know what Iran has but, if a shoot-out came, and half a dozen ships appeared on international television smoking and listing with large holes in them, that would be the end of the Navy’s credibility. Remember what happened in when an Iraqi fighter hit the USS Stark with two French Exocet missile: The missiles worked perfectly, and the Stark’s multitudinous and sophisticated defenses failed utterly. The Navy produced all manner of face-saving explanations.
Predictably, the military contractors will offer sure-fire extremely expensive defenses, things like directed-energy, that will develop more slowly than missiles and experience massive cost overruns, which is what weapons are for. John Paul Jones, slave-trader turned naval hero, once said that he meant to go in harm’s way. Today’s Navy will stay farther and farther out of harm’s way, which will be wise of it, and become an immensely pricey collection of symbolic iron yachts.
So what is the cavalry doing as it eyes machine guns and barbed wire? Buying a better horse. The Navy wants the Ford class (CVN 78) super-carrier, which I think might better be named the USS Thundertrinket. What will it do that the current Nimitz-class carriers don’t? Cost more (eight billion for the first copy, plus five billion R&D. A bargain.) To the uninitiated, that may seem a lot for a high-tech crossbow, but it will put lots of jobs in Norfolk, Virginia, and send money to military contractors. Good thing the US has a robust economy.
You can put mayonnaise on a Vienna sausage and eat it, but not on an aircraft carrier.
Thanks for the post, much appreciated.
I liked the read. Thanks.
Another issue not dealt with very well by our country is the "asymmetrical warfare" as brandished by Bin Laden via terrorists & homicide bombers, etc. At the end of the day, America could have all the right toys, but nobody to press the button. The politics will win every time. Where did the preoccupation with "collateral damage" come form? Why have Mosques been protected at the expense of American lives? Is it a war or not?
This thread today has been very interesting. Lindsey Graham, the "Progressive in Republican Clothing" was running his mouth saying the old mantra of right wing extremist blather = Republican = scare people into believeing they should have voted Progressive (Democrat) and the group flipped right into discussions about God, and Jew hating, and Rape and even a death wish to teach America a lesson nonsense as well as the normal Red Team vs Blue Team cheer-leader numbskull bullshit and the ever present and liberal use of "you're an... idiot, moron, dipshit, racist, etc.
It's been great!
Nice piece.
Great post! Thank you.
And to the person who junks that post without some kind of reasoned response, you are worthless.
Very fine perspective there! Thank you so much
Bomb Bomb Bomb, Bomb Bomb Iran.
Too bad McCain and Palin weren't in control.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynoCrgl2gj0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NyK3df0xaw
or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ25xMRHtj4
...dr. strangeglove is about to make some house calls.
Pour me some grain alcohol, easy on the rain water.
It's baked into this strange pie that we are all witnessing the "rise" of.
China, Iran, Russia, Japan.... sabres rattling everywhere.
And now oooohmama in India, with battleships, awacs, all his friends, buddies, security details, millions of dollars a day.....
Matters not, rupublicans, democrats, plutocrats, rats.....
tick...tick....tick..........
ORI
ORI, I don't know if you are Stateside, but in the late '80s, there was a book "The Coming War with Japan." e.g.:
http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&tn=the+coming+war+wi...
had the same ominous tones.
I'm still listening to Thomas P.M. Barnett on these issues.
- Ned
Tom Clancy's "Debt of Honor(sic)"
IF China bought up a bunch of the toxic debt/assets from the US financial mafia, and is now doing payback (pun intended) with currency, it seems a peaceful way to get even. China may be miffed that the T Bills they own may be getting some toxic virus also. Now, has anyone noticed that China has the FASTEST scientific computer in the WORLD. Maybe the American people need to talk to the Chinese people about some of these things---say what. Like a ZH International.
For some of us that have done business with Persian/Iranians, there is a suspicion that stoning or throwing pregnant daughters down water wells is not the least of the prankish side of the leadership. Let them have the BOMB and then let them use it. End of game for Iran. This is the cheapest way out in blood and booty. Leave em alone. Let em go at it. Ignore em. If necessary, then destroy them. Live and let die.
My view too: adults in Iran will let Hezb'Allah play, others not so much.
Dang, I don't believe I'm thinking this after Beirut '83, but I am.
- Ned
Democrats like Udall are why i will never be a Dem again. When a Dem sits there and actually backs up that batshit insane Lindsey... instead of taking him out to the woodshed right then and there... or leaving the fucking stage in disgust.... two parties mean nothing but our assured demise.
Though the evidence suggesting Iran has nukes, or will anytime soon, is sketchy at best. So what, if they are trying! Is it any wonder, with we the devil who can't be trusted all around them in Af Pak Irak? We've been threatening them ever since they booted our Shah! We gave Pak and India nuke tech or the bomb itself... plus giving the nuttiest Islamos known to man (Saudis) endlees supplies of weaponry.
Self preservation alone demands they develop/acquire anything they possibly can.
It is we who are evil, the war criminals, the ones who attack other countries without provocation first. And both of those Senators (parties) are the reasons why.
If we don't restore rule of law among both the banksters and the war criminals.... were not worthy of the constitution given us at birth.
And i will lick Mike Huckabees feet if the tea party sincerely rips both Lindsay and Udall a new one for threatening to attack Iran. Never gonna happen.
Who the fuck makes a chart in 5 shades of blue? You can't even tell the difference!
All I saw was the red line!
...and that said, thank God for the PROC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwD3gDfa-VU&feature=related
oh...and Singapore
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQOlmClWyzk&NR=1
might want to stay away from them as well
Looks like it's possible the alleged gaymail control on Lindsay that reportedly shut him down on supporting the carbon tax has lost traction and he's back to his former neo-con shill ways
http://aconservativeedge.com/2010/04/20/us-senator-lindsey-graham-blackm...
It will be interesting to see if he flips from the Tea Party position on immigration and embraces the globalist open border agenda
http://www.indyposted.com/19412/lindsey-graham-gay-rumors/
That would be proof positive that the Tea Party is really over except for a lingering neo-con hangover that the GOP is more than familiar with...
+1
Remember Congressman Larry McDonald (R)Georgia!
The next wave will be the TeaOcons
Grahamnesty didn't get his nickname for supporting secure borders, you water muddying person, you.
I should have been more precise.
If Graham continues to support the globalist agenda of open borders then the blackmail has lost the effect of flipping him as in his position on the carbon tax.
Contrary to the effect it was showing here:
http://www.mmdnewswire.com/immigration-amnesty-8148.html
on amnesty.
Now that the waters have been purified feel free to enjoy them but take care in walking as these threads are at times occasioned by intellectually short peers.
Thanks!
I just have this thing for accuracy, and it ruffles my fur when someone gets things exactly 180 degrees wrong. Makes me wonder why they feel the need to try and redefine reality.
I sometimes wished there were two legitimate sides to the World's power struggles. Though the only clear two sides that I can see are the two sides of peoples brains and their rampant imaginations. Hold no illusions people all governments are in on it. There is honour amongst thieves.
graham is disgusting murdering filth....i wish the good lord would end his life pronto....the world doesn't need more bloodshed and the usa has no business meddling in that nation's affairs - a nasty and destructive habit in which it has engaged since ww2....
fuck the military industrial complex and senator murderer graham
That graph is misleading. The number of ships in a navy means nothing compared to the quality of the ships & its crew. Which would you rather have, a modern carrier group manned by competent sailors or a hundred WW2 era destroyers with a crew of conscripts? No nation (so far) can match the USN. I am sure that will change with the economy in the coming decades.
Actually, China's navy is expanding to protect its trade routes along a string of pearls startegy. To counter aircraft carriers it is mass producing anti-ship ballistic missiles (so-called aircraft carrier killers). The Russians just came out with a nifty version of their own which can be disguised as a 40 foot container-hauling eighteen wheeler at only 10 million a pop (less range than the Chinese asbm).
Totally agree. The ships chart is worthless and below TD's standard of hyperbole. We could smoke China's fleet without a blink. It's not even close. Air Force power projection is all part of the calculus. That being said, China is developing a better deep water navy. They're a player in the S China Sea but not much more.
Our alliance with Japan and the currency or economic offenses we commit against them is based on our securing those trade lanes.
I am glad some want to face reality. China has showed us it too can send rockets into space. It too can blast satellites out of space. Oh, by the way, how does our military talk to itself? Was that satellites. Back to China. It too has advanced submarines, we payed for them. It too has a large population of young to fight in a war. And last but not exclusive. It too trades with Iran and are more or less on friendly terms. Will they sanction Iran. NOT. Just reality.