You're now on the archive server. Commenting has been disabled.
Short the CHF - Banking Secrecy Dead
Private Swiss banks (not UBS) have been sending letters to US account holders. One letter reads, "Please sign and return the attached IRS form W-9. It you do not do so by 30.09.2009 we will close your account".
It is not clear that all of the private/public banks will follow suit. However, the pressure on any hold outs with be tremendous. It is very possible that these letters that are arriving in American mailboxes this week are part of the overall settlement between the Swiss and US governments.
Capital flows, both long and short term, will be impacted by this development.There are a lot of unhappy people around the Bahnhofstrasse this week. The folks receiving these letters are just miserable.
»
Ah, to be free of taxes. But:
What if a creative entrepreneur with a 45 decides that I should share the wealth that is in my watchband and my wallet. What if a needy neighbor decides to set up camp on my lawn or a well armed neighbor decides that he should have my house that is larger than his. Should we not have rough men standing ready even to protect us from foreign entities that would like our territory.
What if the road connecting my home to others in the community and serving many should need repair. What if I should have a fire in my house due to a careless child. What if a great wind comes to blow away my house on the gulf containing all that I have. What if I, in my declining years suddenly come to need medical attention due to heart or other unexpected internal issues.
And so on:
Taxes, properly applied and used are the most economical way of supporting the community we are in whether we like it or not. I haven’t been on a “survival hike”, living off of the land for a weekend since I was 16 years old but that kind of thing is a very useful educational experience.
We are very much dependant upon each other but to make it work smoothly we must have laws and support of the mutual elements.
Anybody that says otherwise is itchin for a fight.
I think you'll see more and more people leaving the US. Not just b/c of this but b/c of all the crap in America. I know people that have already left for health care freedom. They run natural health info sites. And just as Zero Hedge had to move to offshore servers, they had to move their sites offshore as well to Asia in some cases b/c of FDA harassment, in order, out of fear of it seeing what has happened to others. Ultimately, they just decided to move themselves out of the country as well and are living new lives in South America. They say it's much easier to start businesses where they live too b/c of fewer gov't regulations.
We all grew up loving America and, more accurately, loving the idea of America. But we don't live in the same country as it was in 1776 or even the 1950's. Our founding fathers would die if they saw this.
Read JJ Luna's How to be Invisible. He lived in Spain during fascism. Or figure out how to get a 2nd passport and find freedom elsewhere. http://www.escapeartist.com/efam2/legal_passports.htm Personally, I think the idea of citizenship is antiquated anyway since there is such high mobility of persons and information anymore.
The Swiss should create a new form of ID for use in country. Nationality? Don't ask, don't tell.
So... buy gold!
with cash no less... right? When they come for you,, where you gonna hide it? they will digup your yard, and your mothers too probably. It will be a little harder than doing a wire trace, though, they will have to sweat a bit.
You all miss the 800 pound gorilla in the room emerging because of this . The 'rich' are going to have to physically move and live where they hold their wealth ........ places like Switzerland giving in and trashing banking secrecy will become like Italy in 10 years ( skiing and chocolate does not pay the bills in Zurich these days ) .....its the countries that figure out ways to take in the rich ( while screening out those who got rich criminally ) that are going to become the places to have your money in FIRST .
@PragmaticIdealist, you're on the wrong blog I believe...those unwashed middle-class masses want only one thing: another bailout. They want "the rich", business, wealth producers - in fact, anyone who earns more than they do - to pay for their lack of productivity, for their mortgage subsidies, their low borrowing costs, their 'free' schooling, their Social Security...
Funny isn't it how Americans always think their neighbours - everyone except themselves - is a tax cheat, "not paying his fair share", "scamming the system"...they'll knee-jerk give the Nazi salute to defend government when their (unearned) standard of living is threatened...
@Kreditanstalt
Not all of us...
Some of us unwashed middle class masses want to live modestly, free of debt, and unmolested by the man. I get to keep the products of my labor and you get to keep yours.
Your point is well taken though as I query other proles, all too many seem happy to take cash for their clunker or that $8k first time homebuyer credit, etc.
Bwaahahahaha. That's the funniest thing I've read today.
Because the upper class is so much more productive when they amass profits from High Frequency Trading...
C'mon.
Swiss banks in the bahamas will simply not do business with Americans - to much of a hassle. This is policy. Tjhe point on capital controls is on point. Go look at HSBC multicurrency deposit accounts. Not available in the USA. Look at Fido trading platform - try and pull up a foreign sov bond or something as esotertic as a foreign equity. Not availbale message reads call trading desk. Anything and everything to make it more difficult to access options outside the gatekeeps
My family survived fascism -Franco's Spain & Commuism Castro's Cuba. It's about control. When the famous Che took control of the Cuban Bancs he expropiated any account worth more than $1000 peso (peso was linked 1 to 1 with the dollar), he de-linked it and made it monopoly money. Anyone leaving the country could not take any gold/currencies/rings/jewelry/etc -clothing & cavity searches were very common even in kids.
Relatives of mines that had account in the US lost them because could not communicate with the bank (bank gave accounts to states because of abandonment) -letters intercepted. Accounts in Switzerland were ok, communication were allowed -however they could not access the monies. The only way people moved money was in cash informally with people you knew & trusted.
Because of US Treasury restrictions with Cuba. US credit cards/debit cards don't work - so many people have other accounts to be able to do business when they travel to Cuba.
In 2002 before my grandfather died- he warned me about Bush & the Country - he did not like the way we were heading - Authoritarian Oligarchy/Friendly Fascism, retold me family stories & ask me to set up alternative non-us financial accounts - he called it "the last plane out account".
There a tip from why you need one. Long term set up accounts, be discreet, act like it never exist. Short term, when crisis is about to hit or hitting only cash works.
Not so sure. All it does is to stop tax evasion and make money laundering more difficult, which is a good thing.
@zeropointfield, NOT a good thing. If I sell my veggies by the side of the road without a license/permit/authorization from some government and then use the proceeds to buy silver bullion (or food, or anything), THAT is "money laundering." An entirely artificial construct of a crime, the nature of which any government can define for itself through their laws: make any activity illegal and the earnings from it become "laundered"...
Tax evasion? The free, unfettered and unencumbered individual is the most basic state of nature and any government, collective or nation-state must be built on that foundation, with that in mind. Taxation is nothing more than confiscation at gunpoint, usually by the masses. NOT by the wealth producers. Anyone, rich or poor, trying hard to avoid, evade or escape taxation is an unsung hero...!
Those evil, unwashed masses! How dare they wish for more out of the system than a minimum wage overworked Walmart job and faulty health care coverage designed to bankrupt them.
Northern Cyprus and USA
Delaware...
San Marino, where Italian dentists put their money is starting to crack too..Leichtenstein also is not that save anymore ..Maybe Bahamas or Virgin Island are still a good place or granny just has to buy another penthouse in Miami.
Usain Bolts back pocket. (still looking for that big win).
I like to close my bankaccount, and have my 60 miljion dollars in used 1$ bills please!
Perhaps "offshore bank accounts" have outlived their usefulness. Interest rates are negligible. Financial privacy has died. Custodial accounts, with the bank-in-charge doing the investing for you, may still hold some promise as a means of safeguarding. But with the governments now controlling virtually every means of moving money out of the West - wire transfers, cheques, credit cards, even gold-denominated accounts - it is ironic that the safest and most private way of keeping or moving money is those same governments' own CASH. Or physical bullion. Or silver or gold collector coins. Or a good watch brand. Carry the maximum undeclarable cash out every time you leave your prison. Get your kids, even the tots, and wife to do the same.
Farm those taxpayers!
They want to trap our money in JPM and GS.
short the franc? sounds crazy....
It's part of the "no bank account left behind" act of 2009. Wherein all bank accounts holding dollar denominated assets, globally, will assist the US government in steadily doling cash flows to incompetent institutions.
GODDAMN !!!!!!!!!!!!!1 now, all we have left is fucking skiing and fucking chocolate
Philip Morris headquarters is still there, so you have cigarettes too.
3 things?
well duh !! what else do we got ? nothing, that's what; your fucking congress just crashed the Swiss economy. But i can tell you one thing; someone, somewhere is writing the account numbers of ALL US politicians. Mark my words; either this outrageous demand and lack of any respect for the laws of this country goes away; or many highly positioned people will need to explain millions and billions they hold in Swiss. And if the later occurs; you can expect a revolution; that would be the trigger.
Wars will be fought to protect the identity of bank account holders.
America is going to far this time. Germany tried and failed.
Move TO Switzerland WITH your money.
the velocity of money...
Traces of cocaine found on up to 90% of dollar bills in American cities
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/17/cocaine-dollar-bills-currenc...
And there we were, labouring under the misapprehension there was nothing backing dollar bills.
As is being pointed out, there are tons of places probably more secrecy focused than Switzerland.
Guernsey, Isle of Man,....
This is a PITA for those of us with a legit reason to have bank accounts in more than one country. We're viewed as terrorists, drug dealers, or tax evaders, while the real criminals hide in plain sight...
Businesses and tax(non)payers obeying the law. What a novel concept.
Perhaps The Law is very well thought out, and invested with all our best interests, and with the best interests of society as a whole. But then again, maybe not.
The real concern here is that The Law is becoming more powerful, more pervasive, more centralized. It's not that were a bunch of anarchists (really!), rather, some of us recognize the slightly corrupting influence of absolute power.
Perhaps The Law is very well thought out, and invested with all our best interests, and with the best interests of society as a whole. But then again, maybe not.
The real concern here is that The Law is becoming more powerful, more pervasive, more centralized. It's not that were a bunch of anarchists (really!), rather, some of us recognize the slightly corrupting influence of absolute power.
Perhaps The Law is very well thought out, and invested with all our best interests, and with the best interests of society as a whole. But then again, maybe not.
The real concern here is that The Law is becoming more powerful, more pervasive, more centralized. It's not that were a bunch of anarchists (really!), rather, some of us recognize the slightly corrupting influence of absolute power.
Isle of Man, Guernsey, Leichtenstein...
This is making life hell for those of us with a legitimate need to have bank accounts in more than one country. We're assumed to be terrorists, drug dealers or tax evaders. Mean while the real criminals continue to deal across borders hiding in plain sight.
Speaking of which, whatever happened to that suitcase of bearer bonds...?
Keep your accounts, but remember to fill out your w-9. And the suitcase of bearer bonds was a suitcase of fakes.
"...the real criminals continue to deal across borders hiding in plain sight...."
Well, what do you expect? The system itself is designed by the real criminals (i.e. the government). They will make sure that their wealth remains hidden (remember Timmy "forgetting" to pay his taxes?) but will loot and pillage yours wherever in the world it may be.
this is why the ability to have a "friend" strip your header information on your international transactions is still one of the preferred methods.
Mauritius...
First step towards capital controls.
Exactly what I was gonna say.
start at the top - "get the richies" - and then watch it flow down hill...if you take out the rich people, then there is no one left with independent resources to resist...
Horseshit. The rich are pissed because taxes are for the poor. The Rich are the least patriotic people on the planet.
"Get the richies." Fucking A get the richies. Bring the income inequality back to reality
Damn right. Almost all the rich people I have met - and all the very rich people I have met - have some kind of scam going to get taxpayers' money, and some kind of scam going to avoid being taxpayers themselves.
who's definition of equal? mine or yours?
touché