The Silver Bears Are Back For Round Three, Explaining Two Key Recent Developments In The World Of Silver

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Sun, 01/09/2011 - 20:51 | 862688 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

The COMEX days are numbered...stand for delivery.

Silver Bitchez!

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 22:53 | 862892 flacon
flacon's picture

Can someone at ZH fix the link to the "letter" to Blythe (thanks John).


Access denied

You are not authorized to access this page.



Mon, 01/10/2011 - 00:20 | 863005 Joe Sixpack
Joe Sixpack's picture

The letter is to Blythe. Not flacon.



Mon, 01/10/2011 - 00:57 | 863053 flacon
flacon's picture

I am pointing out that the link is broken. Who wrote the letter? How do we know that the content of the letter is accurate? etc. Usually links on ZH lead somewhere, but this link doesn't lead anywhere - unless the point of the "letter" is just an example of what people may be, it is a fictional letter for the purposes of expounding upon a point etc. 

Mon, 01/10/2011 - 06:36 | 863264 Mentaliusanything
Mentaliusanything's picture

Green mail - Ahh the old days !

Force them to pay or force the cheeks apart over a Barrel.

The Male is IN

Mon, 01/10/2011 - 09:10 | 863369 4xaddict
4xaddict's picture

What stops the Comex upping their margin requirements into Feb end and squeezing the crown jewels of every weak long in the room (i.e most of them?)

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 22:15 | 862840 yabyum
yabyum's picture

Bay, Comex does not have two (silver) dimes to rub together.

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 22:17 | 862846 qrad
Sun, 01/09/2011 - 22:49 | 862885 famousamos
famousamos's picture

Off topic, but this topic rarely comes up on ZH, so... Does anyone here think we'll see state owned banks start to catch on, like the one in ND? If no, why not?

Mon, 01/10/2011 - 00:38 | 863032 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Could happen, but I lean towards thinking it won't occur until chaos/collapse are well underway, and by then it may be too late to expect policy changes to have any effect.

Just like the Feds, State government policy is far more heavily dominated by industry interests than the voters--lots of States have laws explicitly prohibiting government from directly competing in any market/industry served by private business. 

Only a tiny percentage of the population has any inkling about the structural issues with banks right now--I'd expect several media-dominating catastrophes before the actual mechanics of our problems become clear to people.  We won't see accurate and descriptive mainstream reporting until the so-called fringe-characters threaten to capture real airtime. 

I'd say it's more likely that we'll reach a serious level of economic breakdown before the problems are broadly understood, and by then many people may be too concerned about where to get gasoline and milk to worry about abstract stuff like bank legislation.

If the people are properly motivated, government-ownership of banks isn't necessary anyway, and would be counterproductive.  The same thing can be accomplished without the involvement of the State at all.

Mon, 01/10/2011 - 01:26 | 863094 bankonzhongguo
bankonzhongguo's picture

That is wholly dependent on the size of the state and the relative political will and creativity to start said type of bank.  Bank of North Dakota (BND) can get away with their little experiment because the entire state productivity and population mirrors that of single midsized US city - say Memphis. The BND was started in 1919 - what was ND population then?  Fewer good ol' boys to get in line.  Fewer beaks to be wetted.  The BDN is more of a central bank for ND and offers little or no competitive services and is not insured by the FDIC - whatever that is worth.  To my mind its monthly check clearing operations are like a sleepy Sunday night shift in the Kansas City Fed.

A good test of potential is how easy is it to start your own bank in said state.  Most states its far easier to buy into an existing bank with its license in place than start from scratch.  Additionally, the FDIC will give you money to take over a failing bank these days and there exists a long line of failed banks across the land and the "healthy" ones are really zombies propped up via TARP and ZIRP.  Commercial banks have been consolidating for decades - ever since lawyers decided to be bankers.  Some the recent financial reform crap will only accelerate the consolidation, crippling credit unions and is otherwise designed to drive the community banks into the regionals who are then driven in the nationals and then into the arms of the chosen few TBTF insulated from the OCC inside the FRB.  If only the balance sheets were real.

Even if a state built a new state bank out of gold bricks, I still don't think they could get a correspondent relationship with the TBTF, or an account with the FRB - for ACH, and certainly not SWIFT coordinates.

The real sedition is not creating a state bank, but rather a new currency - one backed by gold or a basket of commodities.  But that is the plan here and the currency's name is the Bancor. 

Remember the golden rule.  Those that have the gold make the rules.

Mon, 01/10/2011 - 00:24 | 863011 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Very clever of the Chinese to "help" JPM on the paper side of the whip saw!  Nothing like more strong arms to really get that price saw to moving!

Mon, 01/10/2011 - 10:28 | 863484 4xaddict
4xaddict's picture

Anyone ever think the Chinese are building shorts because it's a way they see to get exposure to some very poor economic data due to come out in the months ahead?

Feel free to troll or junk me all you like. I am a PM bull but I do not drink koolaid from the Permabear or Permabull pitchers.

I would be interested if anyone has anything else to add besides pearls of wisdom like "Silver Bitchez" or regurgitated arguments that are in the comments of nearly every ZH post?


*StychoKiller that was in no way aimed at you but put up here to get attention from as many informed people as possible.

Mon, 01/10/2011 - 00:26 | 863016 Turd Ferguson
Turd Ferguson's picture

I had this earlier today. To get caught up, see all three parts here:

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 20:52 | 862691 Raymond K Hassel
Raymond K Hassel's picture

Poor timing on the 'shoot' opening. 

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 23:04 | 862904 Michael
Michael's picture

The Federal Reserve is responsible for the tragedy in Arizona because they have debased the currency so much. The Fed gave the shooter the reason to go on his killing spree and wanting a gold standard because a gold standard would help his savings maintain it's value.

Shit happens. Get over it. There is no reason for the country to lose it's collective mind over this and for the control freak government to take more of our freedoms away.

You want to make a new law over this? Abolish the Fed.

The left wing radicals are all over the place blaming the right.

Why hasn't someone written a fucking article blaming the Fed for it already? This could be our chance to unite both parties against the Fed.

Mon, 01/10/2011 - 01:15 | 863080 hardmedicine
hardmedicine's picture

They couldn't even get to audit the Fed last year with 260 something co-sponsors.  In the end it just caved.  So how are we going to end it.  but I do talk to people more every day who are getting it.  Keep pushing on and keep talking about the system and why it has so come down.  We are getting closer. 


Mon, 01/10/2011 - 04:30 | 863197 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Yep, back in 2003, 2005, 2007 good luck having these conversations with people.  Awareness has grown extremely rapidly, and if it continues at this pace the Fed should be abolished by 2012, IMO.   The Fed is at the root of the problem, but lets not kid ourselves that the Fed is the ONLY problem.   Deindustrialization has to be reversed, for one, and a return to sound money, for another.  It is not enough to just get rid of the Fed, but it is one HELL of a start.

Check out our latest PsychoNews story: Signs of the Apocalypse

"China has recently announced they have been working on the J20, a prototype of a stealth fighter.  While publicly America's most advanced aircraft is the F22, it seems unlikely that it is the most advanced weapons system actually available.  The American Military-Industrial Complex could well be sending a message to China, "You may have a stealth fighter in development, but we have weapons the world has never even heard about".  Weapons that could drop planes out of the sky, kill livestock, alter weather, and can even be used for mind control! "

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 20:54 | 862692 FunkyMonkeyBoy
FunkyMonkeyBoy's picture

Yeah, but when are we going to see the affects of our efforts? When you're physically fighting an opponent you can see the damage your blows are doing as you slug it out. When are we going to see any actual damage we are doing to COMEX/JPMorgan/HSBC with all the precious metal buying we are doing? So far any damage is just conjecture and it's not as if they ever openly report any losses, so when?

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 20:58 | 862703 Jace0228
Jace0228's picture

If you feel nervous, sell your holdings, I will buy it.

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 21:03 | 862710 FunkyMonkeyBoy
FunkyMonkeyBoy's picture

Not at all, bought half my physical when silver was $17 an ounce, so quite comfortable with the price action.

Just a bit wary of seeing these 'COMEX can't deliver the physical, they are going to go bust at the next option expiry'. I've read similar articles for the past two silver option expiry dates and COMEX is still here, and so is JPM and so is HSBC, no physical damage to these entities at present.

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 21:05 | 862715 Jace0228
Jace0228's picture

Im relatively new to trading metals, but all the logic points to a fiat collapse. Im in, big. (for me thats like 3 whole silver dollars!)

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 21:11 | 862730 FunkyMonkeyBoy
FunkyMonkeyBoy's picture

If you're expecting a fiat collapse then why are you 'trading' metals? Surely, you should be buying only for personal survival post-event and a lot more than 3 silver dollars!

And, it's quite clear that the $dollar and other fiat currencies do nothing but collapse overtime by their very design. That's why the $dollar has already lost 90%+ of it's purchasing power since the 30s.

I want to see the damage we are allegedly doing to the manipulators JPM/Comex/HSBC, so when?

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 21:24 | 862764 Jace0228
Jace0228's picture

Touché! I Mispoke! ;)

Mon, 01/10/2011 - 17:40 | 865131 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

You misspelled, too.

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 21:11 | 862729 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

"no physical damage to these entities at present".

Say what? The COMEX is being drained of physical and is under enormous pressure. Smoke is literally billowing out of it. What it "does" to the crime syndicate institutions of JPM and HSBC remains to be seen.

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 21:15 | 862736 FunkyMonkeyBoy
FunkyMonkeyBoy's picture

I've seen the figures that suggest COMEX is under enormous pressure, but where is the residual evidence it actually is? Every option expiry date goes by (dec 2010 being the last one) and Comex is still running and i don't see any complains from option holders not getting their requested physical in December?

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 21:40 | 862792 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

I don't know what you want. Whatever it is, it's not here on ZeroHedge.

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 21:44 | 862795 AUD
AUD's picture

The figures I've seen suggest the COMEX is under no pressure at all.

I remain unconvinced of this 'price suppression'. As I see it physical is still being happily arbitraged for paper. It may well continue until it doesn't.

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 21:48 | 862800 JonNadler
JonNadler's picture

Funky, you're right the Comex will never default. Who will you believe a cartoon bear or an experienced anal-yst like me who's been consistently getting it wrong for 50 years? Your call, but if i were you i sell all my silver before it goes to 45, ...errr, I mean before it goes to 4.50 an ounce....just a typo there, he he

Mon, 01/10/2011 - 02:06 | 863130 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Isn't it ironic that two cartoon bears, carry more creedence than a "respected" silver and gold analyist in the real world?


Mon, 01/10/2011 - 08:56 | 863356 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Al, it's ironic all right. Just like Jon Stewart being the most respectable news source in the MSM. Such is where we are as a people. Keep it simple.

But to the point though, I think we'll see some wild moves in the markets as the ides of march approach. Beware them eh? 

Went prospecting for farmland this weekend. Realized I'd happily trade silver for soil. It was a liberating realization.



Sun, 01/09/2011 - 21:58 | 862818 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

It's not proof but Harvey Organ, who watches the COMEX as closely as anyone is convinced they did exactly what this piece suggests already and paid some holders of contracts premiums to agree not to take silver.  He deduced this from significant numbers of open contracts not being paid off in silver and being dropped off the list of december open contracts as the month went on.  There was no other logical explanation.

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 22:50 | 862886 AUD
AUD's picture

It's not proof alright. All futures contracts are 'settled' in cash.

To take delivery you do it off the exchange, the COMEX itself does not make the delivery of physical.

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 23:02 | 862905 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Then why do they have warehouses, smart guy?  Why report the movement in and out of them?

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 23:13 | 862927 AUD
AUD's picture

Do these warehouses belong to the COMEX?

Maybe they are just warehouses where COMEX registered gold is stored.

If a long stands for delivery, the COMEX finds a short who will deliver. As I said the delivery of physical is done off exchange, the COMEX itself assumes no risk since as far as the exchange is concerned all contracts are 'settled' in cash.

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 23:17 | 862931 AUD
AUD's picture

No legal risk I should say. There is always a risk that nobody will want to trade COMEX any more should there be a default.

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 23:23 | 862942 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Every day I nominate somebody for the "Moran Award". I was leaning toward that funkymonkey guy, but I've got good news. You've convinced me, you are a moran.

Moran, moron, potato, potatoe.



Sun, 01/09/2011 - 23:37 | 862954 AUD
AUD's picture

It sure looks like you know all about futures trading. I admit I'm no expert, so why not educate us some more? Your post was chock full useful facts regarding the trading of gold & silver futures.

I look forward to your next installment.

Mon, 01/10/2011 - 00:09 | 862992 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

I have nothing to prove to you son. And I won't be replying to you again. See ya.

Mon, 01/10/2011 - 00:27 | 863019 AUD
AUD's picture

I have nothing

I can't argue with that.

Mon, 01/10/2011 - 00:51 | 863047 Theos
Theos's picture

COMEX has default risk of the seller, and the sole obligation to pay "reasonable damages" from delivery failure to the buyer. They are not obligated to deliver, however.

You're guess is as good as mine as to WTF that actually means.


Mon, 01/10/2011 - 02:02 | 863126 AUD
AUD's picture

I'd say it means the legal obligation to deliver physical is with the 'short' rather than the exchange itself.

I'd also say that the "reasonable damages" is probably taken care of in the margin which all buyers & sellers are required to post. Which by the way the exchange is free to change as it sees fit, when price volatility increases. It is not 'changing the rules' mid stream in asking for increased margin since the rules say the exchange can change them.

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 23:20 | 862936 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture


Mon, 01/10/2011 - 00:40 | 862897 mark mchugh
mark mchugh's picture

A couple questions:

Have you seen anyone saying they already got physical delivery from a December contract?

What were people saying about Enron, Countrywide, Bear Stearns and Lehman a couple months before they collapsed?

Would the US Government prosecute this fraud, or would they try to hide it (can't have people losing faith in our big banks, can you?)?

Be able to buy silver at $30 is like being able to buy a brand new car for 3 grand.  If new car prices dropped to $2,500 would you tell people not to buy because the price is falling?

Sorry, but I have no sympathy for anyone who loses trading paper silver.  They're  chumps.  They help JPM.  Fortunately they help drive down prices for the rest of us.

Mon, 01/10/2011 - 01:19 | 863085 hardmedicine
hardmedicine's picture

I think someone famous said "everything is always alright until it isn't"

Do you think TPTB would allow any kind of tell with their hand?


If someone has an inside source don't you think they would be protecting it and buying more for themselves? 

unfortunately the answer is No, and Yes, respectively.

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 21:14 | 862735 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Dope smoking kid takes out a bunch of innocent people and almost a Congresswoman.  Out of the blue this happens and the left immediately demonozes Tea Party, Palin and conservatives who are screaming the debt is out of control.

We may be closer to collapse than you think.

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