• Monetary Metals
    05/02/2016 - 01:28
    The price of gold shot up this week, and silver moved proportionally. Headlines are screaming for gold to hit $10,000 or $50,000. Does this alleged new bull market have legs?

Silver Set For All Time Record Quarterly Close - Gold To Silver Ratio On Way To 17 To 1 As Per 1980?

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Thu, 03/31/2011 - 07:30 | 1120688 TexDenim
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Time to melt down grandma's dinner service. Sell!

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 08:47 | 1120871 Just Observing
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In 2-3 years, you'll SURE wish you had waited, unless you plan to put the proceeds in something else that is real.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 07:34 | 1120694 Malaespina
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In Roman times, the Silver to Gold price ratio was 25, and inflation was high with all the pillage and sacking coming from the provinces! So, with Gold above 1400, Silver could well be at 56!!!!!!!

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 07:42 | 1120709 silvertrain
silvertrain's picture

I dont think we know what it could be , should be , or might be due to the fact that it hasnt been able to trade freely in many years..

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 08:25 | 1120808 malikai
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It seems to me that the ratio should be even lower if we are talking nominal terms. Considering the fact that large amounts of silver are sitting in landfills, the industrial demand is large, and there is more gold above ground than silver.

 

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 08:52 | 1120897 JLee2027
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Israel Friedman says Silver will surpass the price of Gold. Eventually an ounce of Silver will be worth multiple ounces of Gold.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 10:25 | 1121220 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Perhaps for a moment, but doubtful.  Silver is in a classic bubble, albeit long term and a long way from the top.  Once the wave breaks, silver will fall to a level supported by industry, and gold will be gold.

I am Chumbawamba.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 11:29 | 1121490 tekhneek
tekhneek's picture

God, but you're wrong. The supply/demand fundamentals don't tell me that. I have no doubt it will "peak" and could crash to an extent, but I personally think the gold/silver ratio will flip on its head due to the rarity and the fact that, gold's cool for jewelry, but you can't fucking send shit to outerspace and make superconductors with gold. You can with silver.

Industry will demand continuously more and more silver. I'm sure the jewelry/investmend demand will pick up, but I highly doubt silver will "burst" down to a level supported merely by industry. Besides, how much does industry pay for an ounce of silver when there's a fixed, accounted for volume left?

I'm long land fills and silver. We haven't even experienced frantic buying, or anything of that nature and look where it's at already and the price is still artificially LOW. I don't see how it's a bubble personally. Just because something goes up, doesn't always necessarily mean it must come down.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 10:27 | 1121241 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

He has a point, but I think the psychological barriers are too great.  But I think that Au/Ag will indeed surpass historical mean of 15 or so.

I do not believe that Au/Ag will get smaller than 5.  I think that would be a reasonable time to sell your Ag.  Sell it for Au, I mean.

 

Oh, and ... Fed delenda est.

 

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 15:14 | 1122478 akak
akak's picture

I do not believe that Au/Ag will get smaller than 5.

I tend to agree, if for no other reason than the fact --- often overlooked by those over-enthusiastic silver bulls who like to focus on above-ground stockpiles only --- that there is still around nine times more silver mined in any one year than gold.

Don't get me wrong, I am very bullish on silver, but this idea of silver one day being MORE expensive than gold is just crazy talk, in my humble opinion.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 12:30 | 1121736 False Capital
False Capital's picture

Do you have a reference for there being more silver than gold above ground? I can well believe that central bank stockpiles are weighted towards gold, but in absolute totals? I don't see many of "grandma's dinner sets" being made of gold. As the price of silver rises it should draw more silver to market. There must be tons of old silver currency and tableware just waiting to be remelted, whereas most of the monetary gold is already in circulation and much unwanted gold jewellery has already been bought up by "we buy gold" scam merchants.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 09:27 | 1120868 cowdiddly
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I don't own much silver, but here is some silver porn for you guys. Makes you want to go grab a bar or two. The local shop is sold out of bars till next week and I met a guy in there that was an old stock trader makes you go Hummm...........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKjzMXTNXeU&feature=related

 

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 09:19 | 1120999 High Plains Drifter
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Why did Rome collapse?  What was the real reason? 

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 10:26 | 1121223 chumbawamba
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Nobody thought to open a history book to read how it ends.

I am Chumbawamba.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 10:37 | 1121288 High Plains Drifter
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the real reason why Rome was destroyed was the concept of  the interest rate on money, no? Seems like over time, they picked up some new "citizens" from the middle east, who had ideas on money and the rest is hiss tow ree....

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 17:49 | 1123045 savagegoose
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they taxed in gold,. but paid in silver. had too many controlling gov restrictions. and basically the provinces saw life under the barbarians as giving more freedom than under rome. also continiously reduced the amount of silver in silver coins over time. till nerr the end almost no silver was in coins at all.

farm companies developed, owning massive areas of land and people who where broke forced to work farms as a pre cursor to landed serfs. individual farmers where taxed but companies with contacts in gov got tax concessions, meaning  going into debt to pay taxes and ending up farming own land for the companies.

subsidised food for city people also brought about higher taxes for those unfortunate to have to pay it.

it was also all based on conquest and looting gold form the conquored. once they reached a limit, there supply of gold dried up thus the devaluing by reducing precious metal content of coins.

then there is also stories of  rome being in a period of globull warming that ended and farm productions being reduced. they once grew grapes in the brittain im lead to believe.

 

ermm provincial leaders where told what tax to collect and what was short came out of their personal wealth. = harsher and harsher taxes and provinces thinking that maybe the barbarians might not be such bad rulers after all.

 

heheh thats how i percived it not rerally one reason, but i can see comparisons with the USA

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 07:34 | 1120697 Dan The Man
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Oh god please !!!

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 07:38 | 1120703 dildo o flaherty
dildo o flaherty's picture

  siver bitchez!

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 07:38 | 1120704 Sheikh Djibouti
Sheikh Djibouti's picture

Looks like someone has started forging Euro tokens en masse.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 08:52 | 1120894 Just Observing
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IF it's the same metal content as current Euro coins, is it REALLY a forgery ??  Remember, imitation is the most sincere form of flattery....he he he.....

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 07:39 | 1120708 Alcoholic Nativ...
Alcoholic Native American's picture

Go long euthanasia.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 07:42 | 1120710 unwashedmass
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blythe has a few hours to stop this.

she's got JPM billions AND FED BILLIONS .....

And she's got the CTFC steadfastly looking the other way.

Make it so, Blythe, make it so.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 07:43 | 1120711 unwashedmass
unwashedmass's picture

 

blythe has a few hours to stop this.

she's got JPM billions AND FED BILLIONS .....

And she's got the CTFC steadfastly looking the other way.

Make it so, Blythe, make it so.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 07:42 | 1120713 JonNadler
JonNadler's picture

I can't wait for silver to hit $50 so I can start screaming DOUBLE TOP!

DOUBLE TOP

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 07:47 | 1120717 GoldCore
GoldCore's picture

Always enjoy the comments on Zero Hedge. The bears who continue to scream 'sell' despite the hugely positive fundamentals are beyond myopic and appear to be borderline delusional. They have yet to realise that owning gold and silver is not about trading or the mundane buying and selling but about owning financial insurance that will protect from the massive geopolitical, environmental, macroeconomic and monetary risk facing humanity.

Our GoldNomics video may enlighten as to why gold has retained value throughout history:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HaqwFJj4ZY

While we remain bullish on silver, gold remains the ultimate safe haven and it is worth remembering that gold's portability saw it surge in value versus silver in the Weimar hyperinflation.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 07:48 | 1120725 ViewfromUnderth...
ViewfromUndertheBridge's picture

160:1

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 08:55 | 1120915 JLee2027
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What is that your weight and IQ?

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 09:37 | 1121063 Campagnolo
Campagnolo's picture

LOL

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 07:59 | 1120739 Blindweb
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Supposedly that was due to the threat of a Communist takeover.  If it's time to run for the border, the gold silver ratio may change directions. 

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 08:02 | 1120744 Turd Ferguson
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For GoldCore: +++++

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 08:46 | 1120876 tmosley
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Yes, silver is speculative, and is only a trade with the goal of getting a larger amount of gold at some point in the future.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 07:48 | 1120724 sudzee
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Silver is not very good for big money. Gold is the only refuge for 10's of trillions of fiat becomming more worthless every day.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 08:02 | 1120747 Turd Ferguson
Turd Ferguson's picture

You protect your wealth with gold.

You protect your ability to purchase things with silver.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 08:10 | 1120768 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

+1 Most here don't get it even though they probably use copper clad coins daily.

In some countries in SE Asia 95% of real estate transactions are settled in gold... coming to a realtor near you in the near future.

Interesting how after each options expiry bullion banks try to run the stops and then, next day, PMs take off again. Lows are getting higher on each cycle = Fed slowly losing control.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 09:00 | 1120940 quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

Great point Snidley. The half life of all these shenanigans gets shorter and shorter each time. Too bad fuckyousheema was not the same.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 07:52 | 1120731 zaknick
zaknick's picture

What a joke of a report.

Libya....Bahrain pffft much bigger events aré behind this situation. More like S+P downgrades against IMF wishes yesterday and now the threat to stop rating with Bretton Woods 3 against some banksters wishes.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 07:55 | 1120736 johny2
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20 to 1 ratio sounds reasonable. 

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 14:30 | 1122312 sullymandias
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parity sounds reasonable to me

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 07:58 | 1120741 JohnnieWalker
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The ECB raising interest rates from a 1% base-level won't keep spot silver under $40 for long. If gold takes out $1500 and starts to outperform we could go parabolic.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 08:05 | 1120752 gordengeko
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FYI, for every $1 move in spot silver, AGQ moves roughly $10 fiat US dollars.  Silver at $50 is about $345 in AGQ dollars.  Current prices are $37.80/$226 roughly.  So in theory with say a $19K investment you could buy 500 ounces (not including premiums) or 84 shares of AGQ.  Silver spot hits $50/$345, cash in your AGQ and you could buy roughly 580 ounces.  Net an extra 80 ounces of physical.  If enough investors did just that, one would theorize it could very well push the fiat spot price even higher in a short amount of time because more physical could be bought thus removing even more physical from the marketplace.  Thoughts?

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 08:16 | 1120785 magis00
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I agree GG.  2 comments to submit for consideration:  First, playing the leveraged paper game is sure to win in medium- to long-term, because AG spot is going up one way or the other; Second, there's a time-value of money tension because while your agq may hit 345 in three or six or twelve months, that $345 cash may not find any available silver, or the premiums over and above the $50 spot may ask for more than the juice from your agq investment.  For me, as much physical as possible is the solution - with IRA account FRN play money to agq, slw, exk, etc.  GL

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 08:26 | 1120817 gordengeko
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True, I'm actually thinking more along the lines of dumping half of a larger investment and buying more physical (or try to) then let the rest of the fiat investment ride up the rest of the way.  I've put many in AGQ (some even got lucky and scooped up AGQ at $120-130 in the Feb lows) because I could not get them to buy physical, rest assured I will convince them once it hits $50.  But this all just leads to a zero sum game for the US dollar, I get that, this strategy will just extrapolate the decimation of the current monetary system.  Use their own shit against them basically. :)

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 08:17 | 1120788 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

Sounds workable Gordon. Problem is it requires holding paper for some amount of time...and, no one wants to be holding paper when the music stops.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 08:52 | 1120898 Saxxon
Saxxon's picture

AGQ is wonderful if you are on the right side of the trade; which anyone in the past eight months playing AGQ long, has been.

It is a volatile issue; moreso than the triple ETFs these days.  You need to believe in the position and be prepared to ride out corrections that take longer than you had anticipated.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 08:59 | 1120935 gordengeko
gordengeko's picture

I think there will always be some sort of paper currency that has a nominal value to physical.  So even if the US dollar music stops, it will still hold some value in relation to physical I would think.  The hard part is trying to make more $$$'s while the dollar itself is falling.  One way is to play leveraged stocks/options if yuo know what you're doing.  You would be surprised how many don't know how close we are to the end game. 

One way to play silver is AGQ on the way up and if you are good ZSL on the way down for a quick 2-10%, then buy more AGQ on the dips.  You could also do options, neither of which are for the faint of heart since the moves are fast and furious.  It is the crack of the market, but hey it's all an illusion of digits on a screen anyway.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 09:44 | 1121085 Weisbrot
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perhaps he left beacuse WB caught him sitting in his chair

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 08:06 | 1120754 Moe Howard
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One to one ratio if "Pants Suit' Clinton keeps launching cruise missiles at 'Worm Lips' Momar 'Many of Many Spellings' Kaddfeey.

How many kilos of silver in a Tomahawk?

 

 

 

<HELP> For Explanation.

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 08:29 | 1120823 DavidC
DavidC's picture

"...each Tomahawk has more than a monster box (500 oz.) of silver inside of each missile."

See my link below - I haven't verified it, though I did read another piece the other day that said 15lbs (= 240 oz.).

DavidC

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 09:04 | 1120948 Just Observing
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I find 500oz per missile a hard number to believe.  Even if ALL the wiring was solid silver, I doubt it would run that high.  Love to see some real figures and the actual reason for the figure, rather than something that sounds like it was pulled from thin air.

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