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Silver Shortages Accelerate As Wholesale Supplies Plunge: Krieger/Keiser - 1; JP Morgan - 0

Tyler Durden's picture


Is the Kriger/Keiser "Short Squeeze JPM to Oblivion" plan working? Judging by the wholesale availability of silver (or lack thereof) the answer is a resound yes. In Coin Updates News we read that "as of today, there are no longer any regular wholesale supplies of the 1 ounce through 100 ounce silver rounds and bars available for immediate delivery.  It may be possible to locate incidental quantities of some product, but most wholesalers are now promising two to four weeks delivery to allow time for the silver to be fabricated." Over the weekend we noted that even at the smaller, retail level, Silver American Eagles sold by the US Mint, have surged to a 2010 high in just the first three weeks of November. Is America now fully intent on ending Jamie Dimon's domination over the precious metal space?

More on the wholesale silver shortage:

As a result of the shortages, premiums have started to rise.  So far, the increases have been modest, on the order of 0.5-2%.  However, if the shortage grows, expect to see further and larger premium increases in the coming weeks.  We could see a repeat of the late 2008 gold and silver buying frenzy, where product availability got as slow as 1-4 months after payment.

At the COMEX close yesterday, registered (dealer) silver inventories fell below 50 million ounces.  Even if you include the eligible (investor) silver inventories in the COMEX bonded warehouses, which are not available to fulfill COMEX deliveries unless the investor specifically chooses to do so, there were barely 107 million ounces to fulfill around 725 million ounces of contractual obligations.  COMEX silver inventories are now down more than 10% from mid-June even while the amount of silver owed has soared!

On September 16, the COMEX further raised the silver contract margin requirement to $7,250—even though the price of silver had been dropping since November 9!  What is suspicious is that a lot of “insiders” were liquidating their silver positions starting the afternoon of November 15.  Is it possible that they may have received advance notice of the coming change in the minimum margin account requirement and sold in anticipation of lower prices the next day?

The next round of gold and silver options expiration occurs on Tuesday, November 23.  The attempt to suppress gold and silver prices upon the release of the US jobs and unemployment report on November 5 was almost a complete failure.  Unless something is done to knock down gold and silver prices before November 23, a lot of call options will be exercised, which would further increase the demand for physical precious metals.

I suspect, as do many others, that the two rounds of increasing gold and silver margin requirements were timed for no other reason other than to try to help hold down prices through November 23.

Most of this should not be news to Zero Hedge regulars who now realize that the last battle of endless fiat liability dilution is being fought not in the stock market, but in the precious metals arena, where the onslaught of physical purchases versus shorting in paper claims has never gotten as far as it has in the past month. Should JPM be forced to continue covering, not even instituting an infinite margin requirement on silver purchases by the Comex will do much if anything to prevent the "dreaded" end of a fiat system. Speaking of, if anyone has the recent performance of Blythe Masters, we would be overjoyed if it were shared with the Zero Hedge community.


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Mon, 11/22/2010 - 11:44 | 746357 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

WHOOP! Yea great to see it! I'll go take another few ounce coins out of JPM silvershort slushfund availability later today!

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:09 | 746461 qrad
qrad's picture

silver bitchez! it's catching on! don't forget to pledge those ounces at so JP knows just how fucked they are!

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:36 | 746582 MarketTruth
MarketTruth's picture

No thanks on that website, they want verified ID.

Just KEEP BUYING physical silver and take delivery.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:39 | 746595 Turd Ferguson
Turd Ferguson's picture

Great stuff. Just be sure to read Harvey Organ every night this week. The ongoing squeeze regarding the Dec10 contract is fascinating to watch.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:12 | 746714 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

A weak spot in the TBTF armor?  Bought a roll of eagles last week on the "dip".  BooooYaaa!

I still have a few thousand dollar margin on a JP Morgan Chase HELOC, maybe I'll max it out with a silver purchase?

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 14:33 | 747013 Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture

Since you are thinking the thought, trust they have aims to shut down access to their HELOC's asap. I was smited by just such action not too long ago. Make your move now, don't hesitate.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 14:41 | 747030 TheGoodDoctor
TheGoodDoctor's picture

Hmm what about just opening Chase CC's and use it to purchase silver? Hmmmmm.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 14:48 | 747053 Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture


Chase PM Freedom® Credit Card!


Mon, 11/22/2010 - 15:11 | 747129 66Sexy
66Sexy's picture

i did observe that a reputable online dealer (one that frequently advertises here) is giving up to $2 over spot for am eagles. they usually only give a buck over.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:47 | 746851 dlmaniac
dlmaniac's picture

Yet another video on exposing silver manipulation here. It was done in earlier 2009 way before the current crash JPM campaign. Enjoy everyone.


Mon, 11/22/2010 - 14:48 | 747052 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Hiya Turd,

Ive checked on your new blog.  Good stuff.  Keep up the great work!

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 20:48 | 748165 desgust
desgust's picture

YOU are under my radar as well! Thanks for  sharing!


Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:28 | 746780 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Agreed. That is foolish. 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:46 | 746630 kalum
kalum's picture

Bot a monster box of silvers Friday. Keep it moving

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:04 | 746692 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Remember Keisers original point though, not a few people buying massive amounts, but if everyone bought just 1 oz coin it would screw em big time. So spread the news around tell everyone to buy some silver coins for presents instead of BS Apple IGadgets!

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 16:00 | 747300 midtowng
midtowng's picture

They make great Christmas presents too. A couple years ago I gave my niece and nephew a roll of junk silver bullion each.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:10 | 746707 Hearst
Hearst's picture

I've been adding to my sterling collection as well.  Plates, jugs, flagons, bowls, goblets, Silver looks beautiful in other forms besides coins and bars.  A lot of really nice sterling can be bought off of ebay for below spot prices.  

With the added benefit that Silver is a natural anit-microbial it wards off colds and wont harbor bacteria.  All the cups I drink from at home are of Silver.  (Just be sure when buying that you are getting Sterling 925 and not Silver plate or inlay) 

I'm going to post a video of my collection of Silver ware soon.



Mon, 11/22/2010 - 14:28 | 746999 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Plates, jugs, flagons, bowls, goblets but no flasks?  Everyone needs a flask and silver just makes it all the better.  Your post reminded me of something:

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 14:45 | 747038 Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture

Watch out for the candy/side servers, only the supporting base and internal stem are silver. Careful with any iridescence as well.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:13 | 746717 buzlightening
buzlightening's picture

Thx!  I was advocating a real vote for change by accumulating silver before '08 lil scamBO vote!!!!  Geeze my circle of influence is rather low but nice to see some people catching on!!  Bust Jpig!  Continue the extermination of the rat bastards by voting for real change and takin delivery of silver bullion!!

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:58 | 746671 Eternal Student
Eternal Student's picture

I killed two birds with one stone this weekend. Bought one coin, to join the protest. As well as to check this particular dealer out.

I'm going for 100 more today.

I'm also going to send some out to family members, with a note about this protest against JPM; and here's a coin so that they can join it as well.

That nice shiny stuff might get them away from American Idol for a little while, and wake them up a bit. Some of them haven't even seen real money before.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:04 | 746691 Tortfeasor
Tortfeasor's picture

I'm giving ASEs to my neices/nephews this xmas.  Anyone have a good book on pms i can give them to read?  9-11 years old.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:29 | 746784 DinkStretcher
DinkStretcher's picture

"Whatever Happened to penny candy" by Richard Maybury.  Part of our 6th grade homeschool curriculum for 6th grade.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 17:30 | 747675 Francis Dollarhyde
Francis Dollarhyde's picture

Thanks for the recommendation. The reviews looked good, so I just ordered a few to wrap up with an ounce of silver for my nephews and nieces for Christmas. Indoctrinating the youth of America strikes me as a good way to invest for the future.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 11:45 | 746361 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

I should buy an ounce and flush it down the sewer just to screw with JPM.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:59 | 746903 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

take a picture and send to her -


love how they titled her "The Woman Behind Financial Weapons of Mass Destruction"   lol what a circus

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 20:19 | 748121 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture


As an alternative, buy an oz, store it. Next, take a pic of a burning $1 bill, arc it up beside your silver dollar. Send a copy, one to your bank, one to the Fed and one to JPM. 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 11:45 | 746363 billhilly
billhilly's picture

Did my part yesterday and took an 876 oz bar out of circulation!  Keep on "keepin on" folks, we're winning!

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:34 | 746573 Sabremesh
Sabremesh's picture

A 60lb bar of silver? You sho 'bout dat?

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:49 | 746638 tallystick
tallystick's picture

The comex bars don't weigh 1000oz.  There is a range.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:49 | 746863 billhilly
billhilly's picture

OH yeah, I'm sure.  APMEX sells some nice size bars at a reasonable ($ 0.24 - 0.39) mark-up.  It is a nice RCM (Royal Canadian Mint) Bar and it's coming back home to Canada.  Gonna be fun watching the delivery guy unload it saying "WTF"!

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 20:21 | 748125 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Let him know it's machinery parts!

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:23 | 746762 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

@ billhilly

Clearly a smart man shouldering his load.  Adios 876 ounces!

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 11:46 | 746365 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

This is the best way to fight a revolution - remove your dollars and buy physical silver.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 11:46 | 746366 Silverhog
Silverhog's picture

I knew my last 10oz purchase would break the bank.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 20:37 | 748132 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Yes it will. All in all it's just a......

nother brick in the wall.

Money gets back

I'm alright Jack

Keep your hands off my stack!

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 11:46 | 746369 spartan117
spartan117's picture

Apmex seems to still have American Eagles in decent quantity.  Premiums are insane though.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 11:50 | 746382 LoneStarHog
LoneStarHog's picture

Insane compared to a corrupt paper price? When in the hell are investors going to separate the physical price from the corrupt paper price? 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:01 | 746418 Clapham Junction
Clapham Junction's picture

(comment edited out due to more public drunkenness.)

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 11:57 | 746408 digitalhermit
digitalhermit's picture

1000s of rounds also still available at around $1-2 over spot.


Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:03 | 746435 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

1,000's of rounds of ammo also available and crazy low prices at as well!

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:20 | 746512 HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture


Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:04 | 746438 flacon
flacon's picture

APMEX received a shipment of 250,000 American Silver Eagles (2010) late last week. They are down to 243,296 right now. 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:47 | 746631 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

I've called 10 dealers (a few more to go) in my top 30 major metropolitan area. I was specifically looking for Maples (I like them better). Only two dealers had any Maples at all. Of the 10 dealers, 5 had no silver at all. The remaining, if they had any, it was a few items here and there. 

These were mom-and-pop type dealers, but there's no question supplies are getting tight. And admittedly, most probably don't want to re-stock at these prices just yet. The only one that offered to order some Maples for me said it would be early December delivery. 

[I usually go through Apmex, but wanted to get to know some local dealers too, and maybe clean out my entire city since that wouldn't take much. The remaining dealers with Maples are asking too high of premiums for my taste.]


Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:18 | 746738 MileMarker17
MileMarker17's picture

If you think APMEX premiums are insane, take a look at what people are paying on Ebay for run of the mill, generic type 1 oz bars or rounds.  15-20% premium over spot.

When I bought all my silver in 2002 and 2003, I bought plenty of it on Ebay, back then when nobody wanted it, I always paid less than spot.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 14:52 | 747070 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Same here, different dates, but little bid competition until last year.  Since then there is a rare spot or under spot winner.  I saw 1oz go for $25 Sunday night though so it still happens.  I was tempted to swipe it but I didn't want to steal someone else's excitement if it was their first silver purchase.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 11:46 | 746371 Jesse
Jesse's picture


That is Keiser.  Max Keiser.  lol



Mon, 11/22/2010 - 11:51 | 746384 Joe Grannville
Joe Grannville's picture

It's frightening that anyone would consider Max Keiser's advice.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:01 | 746429's picture

And the bogeyman. Don't forget the bogeyman.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:21 | 746519 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

It's typical that so many won't.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:07 | 746699 oddjob
oddjob's picture

Most ZH'ers are too busy idolizing Jon Stewart to listen to Max.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 14:59 | 747092 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

I hope not, Jon Stewart is an assclown, and his brother is an assclown that helps run the NYSE.    Assclown family. 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 16:47 | 747489 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

A modern Renaissance man can successfully do both.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 14:19 | 746978 Janice
Janice's picture

Got mine!!!!  Physical, baby.

Now, I am watching my SLV options turn from red to green.  FRN green, that is.  Gonna use them to pay off the mortgage. 



Mon, 11/22/2010 - 15:00 | 747094 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

SLV?  sigh....

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:12 | 746716 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Looks like Max Keisers advice is workig pretty well to me, as area dealers are in very short supply of rounds. A few didnt have any available, and I couldnt find a single maple leaf in the city.
Max Keiser +1
Joe Grannville -28

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:24 | 746764 breezer1
Mon, 11/22/2010 - 20:42 | 748154 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

+1. Make that 39. He has come out of the same sausage machine as depicted in the video I posted above.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 15:02 | 747087 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Yes that is right!  Think for yourself!  Why would anyone consider any of Max's thoughts, what would such drivel stimulate?  Not an epic change of the course of our history?  We would not recognize what money is, in the process of taking back money from the COMEX, LBMA, and other fascist networks, would we?

So obviously I am joking, as Max should be given his credit.  He fostered a movement, based on an idea, and whether an idea, a concept, is true before or after the thought, it matters not after it is formed by one person.  So go get your popcorn, you are about to witness a revolution that will foster revolution.  We are taking our monie back.  We will take our rights back.

by Mr Lennon Hendrix
on Wed, 04/07/2010 - 14:12


So Max Keiser is killing it and he cleared some shit up for me.  We have until $20.92 to buy silver (this is its nominal high), because that is when JPM should be done unloading their shorts (more specifically the shorts they inherited from Bear Sterns).  Once that happens, the whole market should capitulate, and then silver to the MOON (we have our own Argonaut, GET THE FUCK IN THE BOAT PEOPLE!) followed by gold and oil.  By my calculations we will reach $20.92 at mid summer, then the market should capuitulate for 2-6 weeks, depending on how bad peak oil is right now, and then KABOOM!  Anyway, my two sense...I could be wrong. MB anyone?

Also, a low of $8.88 during the "crisis".  They are saying something.  They are saying 'We will run this town for infinaty'.  I cry ISIS!  Then I go to war with these damn JPM "M"arket "M"anipulators.  Join me!  BUY SILVER!

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 11:53 | 746393 tallystick
tallystick's picture

Enjoyed your vegas music over the weekend. Thanks!

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 11:50 | 746381 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

Now if only dealers would cooperate and lower premiums in order to increase sales vol.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 11:53 | 746392 walcott
walcott's picture

The price is getting beat down again.

Looks like its working.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:00 | 746423 Joe Grannville
Joe Grannville's picture

Of course.  Zero Hedge pumped the crap out of it all weekend.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:03 | 746433's picture

And yet one dingleberry still hangs on.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:04 | 746439 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Jim Cramer? Can it really be you??

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:34 | 746571 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture
Oh, hello, flavour of the week.
Member for
1 week 2 days
Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:57 | 746641 Joe Grannville
Joe Grannville's picture

You've got me beat EscapeKey.  I wish I could say that I've been wasting my time here as long as you have!  You're awesome!

Member for
36 weeks 4 days
Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:02 | 746685 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Aren't you contractually obliged to tell us a fascinating story about silver being inedible, and that precious metals, being pimped by Beck, are a scam?

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 14:34 | 747015 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Why waste your time with us losers another minute?

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 17:39 | 747698 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture


"The defense rests."

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:41 | 746604 Turd Ferguson
Turd Ferguson's picture

Fun to junk your ass, Joe.

The real Joe Granville made one decent market call in 1987 and has milked that fucker for all its worth...over 23 years now. Snake-oil selling charlatan just like Prechter.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:55 | 746656 Joe Grannville
Joe Grannville's picture

Everybody is selling snake oil in one form or another Turd. 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:02 | 746689 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

OK, admittance. So we should just ignore you then, is what you say.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:07 | 746702 Joe Grannville
Joe Grannville's picture

Do whatever you like Escape.  I'm not your daddy.  As for me, I'm running to the silver store to buy more silver.  It's goin' up!

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:12 | 746708 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Go away, scripted, boring, predictable, pathetic troll.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:35 | 746804 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

Don't hold back..., let it out.


Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:05 | 746693's picture

Everybody but snakes. That would just be wrong.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 16:35 | 747425 Turd Ferguson
Turd Ferguson's picture

+++ that's funny :)

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 22:40 | 748359 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

ironically, they don't stoop as low as humans

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:06 | 746696 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Whatever helps you sleep at night, boy.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 15:20 | 747171 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Silly Rabbits,

At this point they ahhd best run the prices up.

The lower the prices the MORE is bought, they are in a no win situation, excect to inflate the price to where most folks wont pay for over $30oz.

The Head knocker at PERTH MINT, said THERE IS NOT MKT FOR silver, and he did not understand why people were buying ALL THEY could make.

Hello?, a true Oxymoron at best.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 16:04 | 747313 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

The Perth Mint was caught over selling inventory in partnership with Kitco before. I wouldn't put a lot of faith in that claim.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 11:54 | 746400 malimujo
malimujo's picture

1500 ounces removed from Austrian Mint by Croatia team. :-)

As well all cash from personal accounts in few banks in Austria removed. All accounts have 1 EUR in balance. 

I guess we do not trust our Government for long time so we keep our money in Austria. Now we do not trust Austrian banksters as well. :-)

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:13 | 746478 CPL
CPL's picture

120 ounces by team me, buying another 40 ounces more for the kids in the family to stick in their sock drawers. 


Going to need another safety deposit box soon.  Tempting to just bury it in the back yard.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:39 | 746597 trav7777
trav7777's picture

make sure to either vacuum pack it or else put a few of those silica gel dessicants from shoe boxes into an airtight bag.  I mean, you could always come up with your own sacrificial anode but just easier to get the moisture out to prevent tarnish.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:39 | 746821 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

My dealer sees the tarnish as a plus and tells me not to clean them.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 16:18 | 747357 RichardENixon
RichardENixon's picture

I have a bunch of pre 1965 coins that were under Katrina waters for 3 weeks. The guy I bought them from tried to convince me to pay him a premium. Maybe it was your dealer.


Mon, 11/22/2010 - 14:46 | 747043 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture


DO NOT KEEP N BANK SAFETY DEPOSIT BOX...ur exposed both by virtue of possible confiscation as a result of failure or holiday and by virtue of taxation resulting from disclosure...

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:04 | 746405 walcott
walcott's picture

really what's this going to accomplish? 

Hell yeah turn in your crap paper.

But these devils always find a way to screw the masses.


Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:04 | 746444's picture

Well in beats screwing the missus.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:07 | 746452 Horatio Beanblower
Horatio Beanblower's picture


Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:16 | 746491 CPL
CPL's picture

Not if they have sweet fuck all backing it.  When the contract comes due on their crummy paper ETF's they have to show up with physical capital otherwise they have to pay what the market commands to meet the capital that's been pumped into the ETF.


If they are lacking, then to avoid a margin call situation or like shorts covering, they better find themselves some silver whatever the cost.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 11:59 | 746415 John McCloy
John McCloy's picture

I asked Peter Schiff on Friday if he thought the Fed was concerned with the recent rise in precious metal and especially silver because of banks like JPM's short positions.

And he said he did not believe Bernanke was concerned because they are not calling of QE2.

  I would think they are very much concerned since it allows people to short the markets, fiat, punish banks for metals suppresion without going long ponzi markets. Of course Ben is not calling off QE2 because the promise and endless bazookas in his pocket are all he has to keep these markets from plummeting 50% in a week. He also had not heard of the Dec 7th Euro bank run.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 11:59 | 746417 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Correct me if I'm wrong but can't the Comex force settlement in dollars?  Meaning that if JPM gets called to provide physical they just laugh and kick up the spot price in dollars?

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:04 | 746440 schoolsout
schoolsout's picture

I think you are correct, but what happens when end users of silver get a truck full of paper money instead of product?  That's when things will really get interesting...

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:20 | 746513 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Oh it's the complete destruction of the price discovery mechanism.  They have 3 options.

1.  Manipulate the market and put money at risk doing it.  Enough people stand for delivery they lose a lot if they actually deliver metal.  Negative: Could lose a lot of money and risk the PMs getting away from the EE.

2. Manipulate the market but willingly destroy the delivery mechanism meaning they almost can't lose money as they can short unlimited paper into the market and totally kill the pricing structure. Negative: Producers can't use paper, and shows the insane manipulation to all but the dimmest of bulbs.

3. Get out!  Take their lumps and bail out.  Negative: Lose the ability to manipulate prices down to cool people on monetary policy backlash.  May harm their ability for unlimited free money in the future.

Seems like they have been doing #1, but who knows what the future will bring.  I think #3 is the most unlikely of the bunch.  Maybe #2 with a special program to help industrial consumers, don't know.


Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:33 | 746567 schoolsout
schoolsout's picture

That's what would probably happen...they start to limit delivery to those that use the metal in some sort of industry.


Mon, 11/22/2010 - 19:23 | 748005 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Current US Law requires the minting of Silver Eagles as long as there is demand for them.  Given the upcoming gridlock in Congress, getting new laws passed, much less dealing with changing current ones is gonna be problematical.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:46 | 746627 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

Maybe this failure of delivery is actually their goal. Maybe they feel that the total destruction of SLV and GLD (while we're at it) will cause a panic in Ma and Pa to exit all their investments in relic metals that they had been warned were really useless all along. Said panic driving down the price of both physical and shares, and into the waiting hands of the banksters, and the eventual bounce back up to astronomical values.

Or something like that..., just saying.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:56 | 746657 tallystick
tallystick's picture

They could try paying above market value to procure supply from suppliers who will keep it quiet, but I don't think that can last long. Word will get out and the  big physical buyers will crank the screws down even faster.


That would just mean the endgame has arrived.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:20 | 746516 CPL
CPL's picture

They can, but the optics behind moving in with a truck of $1000 bills and a complete lack of silver would pretty much confirm what everyone already knows.  JPM should have been thrown out a long time ago as bankers and as investment grade material.


Considering that they give zero forgiveness to someone in the hole on a margin call, I don't see why they would be allowed to dodge their commitments to their ETF holders when the contract is due.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:37 | 746589 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Zero forgiveness to normal players.  JPM is operating with the full faith, credit, and muscle of the USA.  Worst case someone screams "NATIONAL SECUIRTY!!!" and boom bailouts and special rules time.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:40 | 746603 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Not particularly.

You guys act as if delivery defaults on major metals exchanges are uncommon.  Google the LME nickel fails of a few years ago.

They worked out "deals"...that were not optional.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 18:17 | 747838 GoatETF
GoatETF's picture

that were not optional

The shorts were always allowed to take profits however when the tables are turned the longs got screwed.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:22 | 746527 dhengineer
dhengineer's picture

Yes, after a force majure they can settle in fiat or (I believe) shares of SLV.  Gold can be settled in fiat or GLD.  So, that will just telegraph to the rest of the world that JPM is flat broke, crushed, kaput, and the (physical) price will go through the roof as buyers begin to demand the real thing.  At that point, the spot price will be determined by the dealers, and fiat will begin to sink beneath the waves...

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 11:59 | 746419 thedirtybubble
thedirtybubble's picture

What's frightening is the amount of people out there still buying into this system, still craving plastic shit from China, still spending money at Disneyland, still dutifully swallowing everything these idiot "elite" try to shove down our throats. When do the American people say "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!" ?

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:19 | 746511 digitalhermit
digitalhermit's picture

Like a dumb beast, only by suffering sufficient pain will the behavior of the masses be changed.

As Saruman said to Gandalf: "I gave you the chance of aiding me willingly, but you have elected the way of pain." Of course Saruman later had his ass handed to him but that's beside the point.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:08 | 746704 ZakuKommander
ZakuKommander's picture

"Fly, you fools!"

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:27 | 746538 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Seems to me that we should be thankful for those who have no vision nor frugality.  Without them we would have no barometer.   Like, how do you know you're smart except for the idiots?  Everything is relative.   Had all those so-called "sheeple" (I hate that word, but there is no alternative) been up to speed, we'd have no crisis.   Those who actually allowed the problem (being sheep) will be those who suffer.  Justice, no?

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:24 | 746766 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

How about lemmings? Over-used?

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 15:04 | 747108 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Brainwashed masses?  Zombies?  Zombietards?  Applefans?  Drudge?  Automaton?

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 16:48 | 747497 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Yeah, but...  What about my point of justice being served?

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:05 | 746422 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Tulving sold out of most everything silver, paper price down a dime.

Time to demand delivery from crimex and finish this thing...

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:35 | 746803 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Hulk, Rocky,

Good to see you guys crawling around here again!

Ag to $0.50!

And you can't eat it!

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:39 | 746823 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Not $0.50 DCRB, I have hungry mouths to feed!

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:48 | 746853 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Hulk don't crawl. No way, no how. That is dangerous to even say. {Nice Hulk, Good Hulk, easy boy....} Now Rocks is a Raccoon so he can crawl if he likes, but I just don't see that either. Now you, DoChen, you just "roll like that," know what I'm sayin here?

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 14:04 | 746926 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Thanks for the laugh MsC! good timing...

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 14:21 | 746985 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Au will crawl to $35.

Ag will crawl to $0.45.  <--- new call!

Can't eat either one!

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 15:18 | 747149 akak
akak's picture

Now, now, DCRB, don't start going all JohnnyBravo on us!

Next thing we know, you'll be tellilng us how there is "not enough gold" to ever back our monetary system again, or how the Industrial Revolution did not really begin until inflation starting taking off under the post-1913 Federal Reserve currency regime.

I was always amused by that guy's perspective through his shit-colored glasses.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 15:55 | 747291 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

akak!  We may have a new troll, Grannville above.

Don't listen to that FOFOA guy!  He is wrong!  Gold to $0.00055 per oz.  Silver to $0.02.

Can't eat precious metals!

OF COURSE there is not enough gold!  Nor silver.

Besides the Industrial Revolution did not get cranking up until after they founded the FED!

Brown color-ed glasses do give you another perspective...    


Mon, 11/22/2010 - 16:50 | 747511 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Wonder how ole Master Bates is doing these days.  Licking his wounds from the sound beating he got here I'll bet.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:00 | 746425 trav7777
trav7777's picture

if the actions of the hamsters threaten JPM, the government will move swiftly to protect outlawing "hoarding"

See JPM is how gov't actors get paid.  Little people aren't.  Little people are just useful rubes to say shit to in order to get them to pull your level or hang your chad and get you to where you can get paid by JPM.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:06 | 746447 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

GOOD! I hope thats just what they do! Go ahead Gubment, get all tyrannical, THEN the damn sheeple might finally wake from their beta-wave TV induced comas!

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:25 | 746536 dhengineer
dhengineer's picture

How is the gubmint gonna regulate "hoarding" in Hong Kong, Dubai, Singapore, or Panama.  That's where the physical is going.  It is not staying here, and the gubmint is absolutely powerless to do anything about it.  They know it, too.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:33 | 746566 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

I see what youre saying, but I dont know how you can conclude no one in the US has any PM holdings. Most all my friends have a safe full of gold and silver.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:38 | 746818 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Only some of my friends and family have gold and silver.  But among the ones who do, I know at least two who have gold overseas.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:14 | 746721 Ricky Bobby
Ricky Bobby's picture


Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:02 | 746431 Harry Hood
Harry Hood's picture

Does anyone hold SLV options? What do you think of this strategy for leverage?



Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:14 | 746483 tallystick
tallystick's picture

Buy the physical,  your leverage is derived from the fact 50-100X  more paper has been sold short than the sellers actually have.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:42 | 746607 Harry Hood
Harry Hood's picture

Why pay 10% premium plus shipping for physical? Buying SLV calls seems about right, SLV matches spot silver pretty accurately. 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:58 | 746670 tallystick
tallystick's picture

Ever tried trading SLV shares for weapons at a gun show? 


They only take physical.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:11 | 746711 tmosley
tmosley's picture

You get the premium back when you sell.  You do eat the shipping though.  Not really a big deal, as you have to pay to make your SLV trades too.

And SLV matches spot FOR NOW.  Once it is revealed that their warehousers all doublesold their metal, SLV will be trading at or near zero.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 15:30 | 747210 DosZap
DosZap's picture

You don't eat the shipping tm, it's like the premium, add to cost, and it's dollar cost averaged.It was part of the cost,so it goes into the price of the metals.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:17 | 746736 Croesus
Croesus's picture

You sound almost like a JPM employee. . . . .if you'd bother to read the SLV prospectus, you wouldn't put a single cent of your money into JPM's bullshit paper-scheme. The whole purpose of SLV is to keep buyers out of the physical market. Odds are good that SLV is loaded to the gills with silver derivatives, not underlying physical assets.



Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:42 | 746834 Harry Hood
Harry Hood's picture

Is apmex the cheapest? What about the mint? 


Mon, 11/22/2010 - 14:59 | 747091 Croesus
Croesus's picture

Couldn't tell you, I do all of my buying in person from people local to me, not over the interweb.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 15:32 | 747221 DosZap
DosZap's picture

No, APMEX is lower than most, but NOT the cheapest.

Google suppliers and check.

The Mint sells to Dealers, and individuals on Proof only,and they nail your butt if you do.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 14:48 | 747051 hamurobby
hamurobby's picture

Me does, I made enough on call options in the last two months to buy 150 morgan and peace dollars, just need another dollar up to be in the money for another 100 or so. Lucky for me the option premium was very low due to the fact that silver had not been over $21 in 30 years, now the premium is very high. However you cant beat paper for leverage, but take your winnings and buy the real thing.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:02 | 746432 Clapham Junction
Clapham Junction's picture

You guys are a MASSIVE indication of a top.

That's what Bob just told me.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:08 | 746457 Horatio Beanblower
Horatio Beanblower's picture

Bob Hope?

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:00 | 746678's picture

...starring in The Road to Perdition. Hit it, Bing...

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:13 | 746477 Captain Kink
Captain Kink's picture

the top isn't in until your cab driver is telling you to buy silver.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:16 | 746497 Joe Grannville
Joe Grannville's picture

Does the bagger at my grocery store count?

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:24 | 746532's picture

He may if he wishes but his primary mission is to pack. It's the cashier that counts.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:30 | 746552 Joe Grannville
Joe Grannville's picture

Hey Max, quit wasting your time posting here and go to your mailbox. It's full of royalty checks from all the silver dealers that have you on their payrolls. LOL

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 12:56 | 746658 DollarMenu
DollarMenu's picture

What are you - the new Johnnie Bravo of silver?

Do you have any purpose other than snark?

Maybe you are a JPM intern working an assignment? 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:15 | 746729 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

You can bet with keyword 'crash' typed into Google coming up 'Crash JP Morgan buy silver'....JPM has plenty of low level minions like this turd out and about.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 14:43 | 747035 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

funny, you'd think they could buy someone a little more talented

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:40 | 746828 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Dollar, you will have to ask Sr. VP at JPM JonNadler to see if Joe G. is now on Jamie's payroll.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 13:40 | 746826 clymer
clymer's picture

'LOL' ..such maturity. Like Max is actually getting royalty checks from silver dealers.. What are you, 15? Get off of your parents computer before they get home, and you get in real trouble.

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