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Simon Black Advocates Leaving America As The "Most Effective" Way To Fight The Battle With "The Mob-Installed Government Beast"

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Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:01 | 761482 redpill
redpill's picture

I'd love to be able to, but for a lot of folks it's not in the cards if they want to preserve a fraction of their current lifestyle.  

In the mean time, people can fight the beast by reducing their tax burden as much as possible and not borrowing money for anything.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:36 | 761655 cosmictrainwreck
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OT...Tyler, you are a real piece o' work! Where do you find all this stuff? You da wizard.... know how to get the crowd buzzin': 74 comments in 40 min. Do you track remarks/min or hour? :)

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 19:26 | 762980 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Tyler doesn't find people. People find Tyler. 

I still think taking your money out of the system and getting  food, supplies, and precious metals is the next best way to affect change, for those who can't "up and leave". 

All ZeroHedgers are welcome in Canada,  your physical is welcome, too!

Any way, check out our latest PsychoNews story: Bailouts, Money Printing, and Reserve Currencies.

http://psychonews.site90.net

"As has been discussed previously here at PsychoNews, it is very likely the US dollar will be replaced as world reserve currency, but what will replace it is still very much up in the air.  An important distinction must be made between the US economy, and the US dollar.  The economy is the result of the entire nation's production and consumption.  The dollar is created out of nothing,  and is controlled by a small elite.  They put their pants on one leg at a time, exactly like you and I, except they can create money out of nothing."

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 20:47 | 763208 Green Leader
Green Leader's picture

"...but what will replace it is still very much up in the air."

Not to the elites.

It's called The Plan.

The Plan will not fail.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 22:35 | 763435 tmosley
tmosley's picture

The best laid plans of mice and men...

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 22:40 | 763448 tmosley
tmosley's picture

The best laid plans of mice and men...

Tue, 11/30/2010 - 02:30 | 763856 michael.suede
michael.suede's picture

10,000 liberty lovers have pledged to move to New Hampshire to overthrow the state's ties to the federal government.

That sounds like a good place to move to.

Learn more here:

http://freestateproject.org/

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:50 | 761707 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I'd love to be able to, but for a lot of folks it's not in the cards if they want to preserve a fraction of their current lifestyle.

Assuming you're correct and would only be able to preserve a fraction of your lifestyle by moving, what you're really saying is that you/we/us have made, or are making, a conscious decision to have your/my/our (better) cake at the expense of your/my/our liberties and other unquantified loses that most people don't care about anyway.

The pain of the lost liberties you currently experience (which sadly is not much since most people measure their liberties as being able to shop and travel and change jobs) has not over come the perceived pain you might feel if you moved and theoretically diminished your lifestyle.

This is the bottom line. I'm not being judgemental, just stating the obvious. You have been bought by the masters and we have now determined the price. I am in the same boat. Everyone who remains in the USA bitching and complaining but doing noting else is in the same boat.

Now it just comes down to how well we are at rationalizing and justifying our decision. No matter how poor we are, we always can move. The question is simple. Are we better off living in the USA as opposed to living elsewhere? The answer is usually arrived at by staying put and doing nothing. We then make a ton of excuses for doing nothing. 

Doing nothing is just as much a decision as doing something.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:57 | 761734 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

I like to say that "doing nothing is the default option."

I would add that if there are (to pick a number) 100 options, then 90 of them will on analysis come down on the side of the default option.

That is the nature of these kinds of "lifestyle" traps.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:21 | 761825 xanax
xanax's picture

With the exception of the Netherlands, it's very hard for an American to move to another decently modernized country without being independently wealthy and/or having a job lined up where the company is willing to sponsor you.

I find recommendations of Mexico, Chile, Panama, Costa Rica, etc humorous at best.  They are only fit for retirees or people without children.  Raising and educating a family in Mexico is not the panacea you would hope it is.

On a personal note, I have a close friend that moved with his wife down to New Zealand.  They were fed up with the USA and wanted out.  It's only been 6 months, and they've found it sucks just as bad down there.  Massive bureaucracy, petty people, horrible boss, and so on.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:42 | 761935 FatFingered
FatFingered's picture

We learned this morning from TD that it is perfectly legal to send money to Mexico via TBTFs.  No SS needed.  Just brown skin.  Ride the Government's coattails.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 17:27 | 762578 banksterhater
banksterhater's picture

I have a friend from San Diego been in Costa Rica about 5 yrs, the housing bubble was exported there, collapse of tourism, locals hate US ex-pats, now the new Prez has agreed to be militatised by the US Navy, now having port docking rights, we call it "war on drugs" he says it's good for bar and hooker businesses.

They are allowing dredging of rivers for gravel to build highways, destroying eco-structure, near where lots of ex-pats located.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 18:16 | 762748 Bonesetter Brown
Bonesetter Brown's picture

Emigration is hard.  Not that many melting pots to be found.

What about political action for state secession instead?

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 20:50 | 763210 seventree
seventree's picture

Disgruntled Americans talk blithely about "just moving" to some other country where values and lifestyle are similar, unaware that Canada, the UK, and most of Europe do not want Americans to come and stay. They can spend tourist money for 3 - 6 months but after that they will be hunted down and deported as illegal aliens.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 21:52 | 763344 bingocat
bingocat's picture

Just like what happens in the US when people from other countries who think the grass is greener in the US come here...

Tue, 11/30/2010 - 17:44 | 765772 thefedisscam
thefedisscam's picture

Really? Then you need to lobby the Congress harder, since the trend in the U.S. now is they want to keep ALL foreign students who majored in science by offering them green card. Nope, the bill has not passed just yet, but perhaps will.

TOO MANY Americans themselves refuse to study hard and work hard, so the elite in this country want to keep foreign smart brains.

Tue, 11/30/2010 - 19:05 | 766119 seventree
seventree's picture

The original topic referred to mature adults with established careers, or else retirees who are fairly well off, who wished to make their home elsewhere. College graduates are a whole other subject.

Yes, government and business would like foreign students who earn advanced technical degrees to stay in the US. That's because there simply aren't enough native born graduates to fill this need, and that is because there are simply not enough high school graduates available each year prepared to enter such intensive study programs. Lack of ambition, work ethic, and study habits cannot be fixed by remedial programs.

Not long ago foreign graduates were happy to stay here and work, but today many are concerned about the future of the US and anticipate better opportunities in their own countries.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 22:34 | 763432 Clockwork Orange
Clockwork Orange's picture

State secession will only work if we are able to replace the chains that bind the sheeple ... namely, social security & medicare. 

If I am not mistaken, Vermont had 11 secession candidates on the ballot for the mid-term elections ... result not so good.

In the remote instance we could reach the sheeple with the realities debated here, they would balk for fear of forfeiting their percieved claims on the vacant social security trust fund (that has no funds, nor could it be trusted).

A more viable alternative would be to line up some heavy hitters to help fund the sheeples' share of the ponzi if they wise up enough to secede.  

(I'd gladly pitch in ... what the hell, I'm not gonna get anything back that I put in from here forward anyway.)

Until then, fat chance.

 

Tue, 11/30/2010 - 18:14 | 765954 thefedisscam
thefedisscam's picture

http://dumpdc.wordpress.com/2009/12/29/secession-the-hope-for-humanity/

"Thirty nine states of the United States have passed Tenth Amendment resolutions in recent months, stating that they are prepared to re-assert their authority to determine which Federal laws will be enforced within their borders. A few have enacted firearms legislation which states that firearms and ammunition manufactured and sold within the borders of a particular state are not subject to Federal law and regulation. It remains to be seen if Washington will recognize the nullification of Federal gun laws."

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 19:29 | 762886 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

I bugged out to New Zealand in 2006 and found a good job with friendly co-workers and a nice boss.  No regrets.  Yeah, the bureaucracy sucks but it's not as bad as in America, and it lacks the Orwellian flavor. 

NZ bureaucracy tends to revolve around "green tape" and onerous planning / zoning / building ordinances.  If you don't own a house or a business, it will be mostly invisible (except for the car inspection mafia, and the higher cost of living).

Overall taxes are a bit lower than in America, despite an overly generous dole and "socialized medicine" which actually works.

If any Zeroheads are interested, I can provide advice, logistical support and even free rooms, if available.  Email ValisRising attttt g-m-a-i-l dotttttt com.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 20:38 | 763162 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

@everybody

 

I bet $100 internet dollars that most of you here cannot find the tax haven Andorra on the map.

 

"Andorra has one of the world's lowest unemployment rates, with the statistics on June 2009 showing almost 100% employment within the country."

 

"Andorra is not a member of the European Union, but enjoys a special relationship with it,...The banking sector, with its tax haven status, also contributes substantially to the economy."

 

ZING

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 20:57 | 763233 SWCroaker
SWCroaker's picture

Sigh.  Mountains between Spain & France.  Where the albino dude in the da Vinci code came from, if you read the book.  (Pretty sure, all of this is from memory).

More to the point, put up $100 bucks for most here to point to the country that is bar none one of the best tax haven's on the planet, IF YOU AREN'T A US CITIZEN.   

Hint, its caricature avatar's name rhymes with Uncle Spam......  Oh yes, that one.  In fact it excels at being a haven for non-citizens, while simultaneously putting one hell of a boot to its own people and corporations.

 

Gotta luv it.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 21:49 | 763297 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

Spot on SW, okay, i owe you $100 internet dollars.

 - here ya go, transmitting

     >>>01111000100111111111100101100100101001 <<<

 

Thanks.

Tue, 11/30/2010 - 12:02 | 764476 BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

Andorra: very strange place with strange history. I lived near there for a while. It is difficult to open a bank account there as they are watched closely by the French and Spanish govt. The whole place have "view pollution" of incredible amounts of billboards and factory outlet stores everywhere because of the European shoppers they get there for booze and smokes.

Like most places like that, they are not crazy about outsiders. Not as bad as Corsica though (stunningly beautiful place with documented outright hostility to outsiders).

 

Tue, 11/30/2010 - 12:04 | 764480 BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

By the way, that was WAY more than 100 there. That worked out to 

259039998546

according to my math.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 22:57 | 763474 Doctor sahab
Doctor sahab's picture

They should have watched the Flifght of the Concords!

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:14 | 761791 redpill
redpill's picture

You are equating not leaving with doing nothing.  Obviously there are things you can do while remaining in the country to fight the beast.

There is also the implied assumption that there is somewhere else you can go that is not likely to face many of the same issues within the next decade.  A number of the countries Mr. Black discusses have had dictators in the recent past.  He discusses freedoms in countries that within our lifetimes have been under the jack boot of Manuel Noriega and Augusto Pinochet.  So do you trust the Chileans or Panamanians to defend your freedom more than you do Americans?  That winds up being the question, and it's not easy to answer.

Personally I would have to spend a lot of time in one of these countries before I could decide to throw the lives of my family into chaos and move there.  Asking them to leave their friends and family is significant, and not doing so should not be equated with passively sitting on your hands.  You can love freedom, but it can be hard to appreciate if you make you family miserable by moving every 5 years running from the latest government intrusion. 

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:28 | 761843 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

You are equating not leaving with doing nothing. Obviously there are things you can do while remaining in the country to fight the beast.

There is a world of difference between doing something and doing something that is effective. Even if you ramp back your participation in the Ponzi, the Ponzi will simply apply more leverage to obtain the same effect. Mr. Black was talking about being effective and he stated that the most effective method was to leave. I didn't agree or disagree. I was simply responding to your declaration that people would not be able to maintain their current lifestyle if they left. If that is your supposition, it is a deal with the devil.

Now you are bringing more elements into your argument such as where do you go and the stability of that government. That's fine. But you didn't mention them at first so I thought the one reason mentioned, lower lifestyle, was your primary and best argument.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 16:06 | 762103 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

I think the main argument is economic:

Voting with your dollars is always effective.

  1. Don't like TSA butt probes... Don't buy airline tickets. 
  2. Don't like Monsanto GMO crap... Don't buy Conagra, Kraft corporate imitation food.
  3. Don't like corrupt US Corporate Owned Governance... Take you work and tax base elsewhere.

Why should we have any loyalty to the criminals that rape us and claim legitimate authority to rule?

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 21:24 | 763286 MrPalladium
MrPalladium's picture

1. Cancel your cable - detach from the matrix of propaganda and behavior modification.

2. Stop watching pro sports.

3. Save your money in the form of PM's

4. If a third of the U.S. population could be convinced to lock up their credit cards for 5 months and go on a spending strike, the system would collapse and be forced to give in to our demands - difficult but not impossible. It is the lifestyle that creates the problem!

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 16:26 | 762237 Ricky Bobby
Ricky Bobby's picture

+10 I want to emigrate to the US 1880. How do I do that?

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 18:37 | 762803 Rainman
Rainman's picture

I dunno but be sure to get a smallpox shot before you go.

Tue, 11/30/2010 - 12:06 | 764484 BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

Yeah polio too. And watch out for tuberculosis. 

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 18:37 | 762806 tmosley
tmosley's picture

That's a bit much, but there are examples of people successfully emigrating to the US Old West circa 1885.

Back to the Future Part III (1990) - IMDb

Just watch out for Biff's great grandpa.  He's a mean bastard.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 16:55 | 778420 WP
WP's picture

BINGO!

Besides, as a friend constantly states: "I look forward to the coming pandemonium- debts will be paid!"

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 16:39 | 762337 Fahrenheit451
Fahrenheit451's picture

Doing "something" doesn't mean we all have the option of moving outside the country.  I have three little kids, all under six years old.  I've moved a third of my wealth into PM, which are stored in Singapore.  I'm saving every month and of course, not paying off one slim dime of my mortgage. 

 

But at this point I'm still saving money every month, building my gold and silver hoard and my kids are in fabulous schools.  Why pull the rip chord now?

And if I did, I have savings to live off of for a long while, but not forever.  Where am I going to work?  What about educating my kids?

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 18:56 | 762868 malusDiaz
malusDiaz's picture

You've got 1/3rd of your wealth in PM in Singapore?!?!?! Seriously!?!??!?!

 

Bet you can't find it. I bet someone has a Promissory Note that they have your PM's in Singapore. Its not yours unless its in your hand. Bury it in the back yard.

 

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 19:39 | 763013 Fahrenheit451
Fahrenheit451's picture

Yes. I would humbly suggest you do some investigation into the Singapore Freeport.  Having all your gold here in the US isn't going to do you much good when there are capital controls/confiscation.  I feel very comfortable having my own gold in secured allocated storage with a business friendly government and favorable banking secrecy/taxation laws. 

 

Trust me, it was a lot of research on my part to do this privately, but I visited my bullion a few months ago and I have the only key to my box.

 

Once you aquire enough metal that home storage is not ideal, and you rule out the banks, offshore storasge is the best option, IMO.  Plus it mitigates the need to have a get out of dodge pad.  If TSHTF, I just buy 5 tickets to Singapore and watch the carnage on CNN International.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 22:26 | 763420 Ace
Ace's picture

Having some gold or cash available outside of country is only a small part of the answer.

Many people seem to think they will be able to just leave the US if/when TSHTF. If history is any indicator, that's a risky proposition at best. Possible issues include: access to funds to buy tickets (which could become very costly), potential closure of airlines, restrictions on who is allowed to leave the country (and what property they can take), or even a sudden flood of others with the same idea and a resulting 12-month backlog before seats are available.

 

 

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 23:59 | 763615 chindit13
chindit13's picture

Singapore is not the sort of place that takes kindly to people who fail to honor their debts, whatever the rationale.  They operate a clean, but rather strict society.  Hopefully if you bug out you'll leave some of your current practices behind. 

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 16:58 | 762467 DosZap
DosZap's picture

CD,

No the reason its not feasible, is the PAIN inflicted directly to him/her, hasn't reached that point yet.Meaning LIFES still too good.

The attitudinal shift will occur, when you wont be able to leave.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 21:46 | 763329 molecool
molecool's picture

Hey buddy - good to see you around. Well, as an immigrant I can tell you that changing countries (and acquiring a new citizenship) is a mountain of work. It's something that I however encourage doing in your twenties and maybe even thirties. It gets a lot more difficult once you're pushing fourty, and especially once you started a family.

It also depends on the person - some people respond better to change than others. Finally, there's the language barrier - in most cases. It's one thing to move to France as an American or German - it's another to move to Korea. Finally, a piece of advice - where ever you move, make sure that you love the food - that's half the battle ;-)

Tue, 11/30/2010 - 03:53 | 763899 No More Bubbles
No More Bubbles's picture

Doing nothing is just as much a decision as doing something.

 

"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice" - Rush lyric

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:59 | 761740 Gordon_Gekko
Gordon_Gekko's picture

Define "lifestyle". Certainly it is a very limited sphere of thinking that allows one to accept that the american/western "lifestyle" is better than any other. It only means that you haven't experienced any other. And considering the fact that 1 in 5 (or is that 1 in 3) Americans is depressed, I certainly wouldn't think of it being "good/better" in any way, shape or form.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:20 | 761817 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

+10,000 Gordo. Big Pharma has them convinced that "being depressed" is not their fault. "Just a chemical imbalance that our pill will fix right up!" BULLSHIT!!

They take ALL while the populus is in a fuzzed our pharma induced haze.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:31 | 761876 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Big pharma doesn't say that. Medicine says that for some it is a genetic chemical imbalance, like bipolar, schizophrenia, etc. There are also lots of other causes like job loss, personal trauma and socialist governments. The pills will just let you feel better about it. Doesn't fix anything, just helps you deal with it. No one is forced to take anything, either. Go herbal, go pharma, go counseling, go naturale. It's your choice.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:35 | 761886 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

Big Pharma OWNS medicine. Do you have any more arguments? I am sorry if you take these every day and forget what it was like to be pissed. Because WE ALL NEED TO BE PISSED.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 18:30 | 762783 Kali
Kali's picture

baseline bitchez!

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:45 | 761947 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Big pharma doesn't say that. Medicine says that for some it is a genetic chemical imbalance, like bipolar, schizophrenia, etc.

I've often wondered if this is a chicken and egg kind of thing. Did the chemical imbalance cause the mood "disorder" or did the mood "disorder" cause the chemical imbalance? I suspect many people are facing a crisis of spirituality. Notice I didn't say religion or God. The drugs just paper over the underlying issues.

For the vast majority of people, they're desperately miserable and unhappy not only with their jobs, but their lives, their choices and their future in an endlessly dissatisfying and increasingly manufactured life. They're saying to themselves "There must be something better than this?" and they would be correct.

But the system has programmed them to believe that the only way you can have the cars and vacations (and whatever else the system tells you is what you want) is to stay locked into the insanity of the system. No matter how well fed and cared for the lion, chimpanzee, monkey or elephant is, when placed in captivity most go insane. We humans just use drugs to keep the insane people working and functioning reasonably well so as not to destroy productivity.

Welcome to the prison planet. 

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 16:33 | 762284 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

In Colorado, physicians are required to disclose how much dollar value in the form of money, free samples, golf vacations, merchandise, etc. that they receive from pharmaceutical companies to the state licensing commission. Many of them "forgot" to report.

I would like to know how many other states have this requirement.

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