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Simon Black Advocates Leaving America As The "Most Effective" Way To Fight The Battle With "The Mob-Installed Government Beast"

Tyler Durden's picture


And now for some very provocative, "out of the box" views: Simon Black, better known as Sovereign Man, presents some disturbing thoughts which are sure to get the broader spirits elevated. Instead of continuing to fight what some see as a losing ideological battle with a government which no longer even remotely represents the broader population's interests, Black says simply to walk away: "When you think about it, what we call a 'country' is nothing more than a large concentration of people who share common values. Over time, those values adjust and evolve. Today, cultures in many countries value things like fake security, subordination, and ignorance over freedom, independence, and awareness. When it appears more and more each day that those common values diverge from your own, all that's left of a country are irrelevant, invisible lines on a map. I don't find these worth fighting for...The government beast in your home country feeds on debt and taxes, and the best way to win is for bright, productive people to move away with their ideas, labor, and assets. This effectively starves the beast and accelerates its collapse. Then, when the smoke clears, you can move back and help rebuild a free society." Perhaps Black is right and this is the best, and possibly only, non-violent way to fight the political-financial plutocracy?

From Sovereign Man

Tell me if you think it's worth fighting for

Date: November 29, 2010
Reporting From: Katoomba, New South Wales, Australia

In 43 BC, over 2,000 years ago, warring consuls Antony, Lepidus, and Octavian were duking it out with each other over control of Rome following Julius Caesar's assassination the prior March.

Each had legions at his disposal, and Rome's terrified Senate sat on its hands waiting for the outcome.

Ultimately, the three men chose to unite their powers and rule Rome together in what became known as the Second Triumvirate. This body was established by a law named lex Titia on this date (give or take depending on how you convert the Roman calendar) in 43 BC.

The foundation of the Second Triumvirate is of tremendous historical importance: as the group wielded dictatorial powers, it represents the final nail in the coffin in Rome's transition from republic to malignant autocracy.

The Second Triumvirate expired after 10-years, upon which Octavian waged war on his partners once again, resulting in Mark Antony's famed suicide with Cleopatra in 31 BC. Octavian was eventually rewarded with rich title and nearly supreme power, and he is generally regarded as Rome's first emperor.

Things only got worse from there. Tiberius, Octavian's successor, was a paranoid deviant with a lust for executions. He spent the last decade of his reign completely detached from Rome, living in Capri.

Following Tiberius was Caligula, infamous for his moral depravity and insanity. According to Roman historians Suetonius and Cassius Dio, Tiberius would send his legions on pointless marches and turned his palace into a bordello of such repute that it inspired the 1979 porno film named for him.

Caligula was followed by Claudius, a stammering, slobbering, confused man as described by his contemporaries. Then there was Nero, who not only managed to burn down his city but was also the first emperor to debase the value of Rome's currency.

You know the rest of the story-- Romans watched their leadership and country get worse and worse. 

All along the way, there were two types of people: the first group were folks that figured, "This has GOT to be the bottom, it can only get better from here." Their patriotism was rewarded with reduced civil liberties, higher taxes, insane despots, and a polluted currency.

The other group consisted of people who looked at the warning signs and thought, "I have to get out of here." They followed their instincts and moved on to other places where they could build their lives, survive, and prosper.

I'm raising this point because I'd like to open a debate. Some consider the latter idea of expatriating to be akin to 'running away.' I recall a rather impassioned comment from a reader last week who suggested that "leaving, i.e. running away, is certainly not the proper response."

I find this logic to be flawed.

While the notion of staying and 'fighting' is a noble idea, bear in mind that there is no real enemy or force to fight. The government is a faceless bureaucracy that's impossible attack. People who try only discredit their argument because they become marginalized as fringe lunatics. 

Remember John Stack? He's the guy who flew his airplane into the IRS building in Austin, Texas earlier this year because he had a serious philosophical disagreement over tax issues.

While his ideas may have had intellectual merit, they were immediately dismissed due to his murderous tactics.  Violence is rarely the answer, and it often has the opposite effect as intended, frequently serving to bolster support for the government instead of raising awareness of its shortcomings.

Unless/until government paramilitaries start duking it out with citizen militia groups in the streets, this is an ideological battle... and it's an uphill battle at best.

Government controlled educational systems institutionalize us from childhood that governments are just, and that we should all subordinate ourselves to authority and to the greater good that they dictate in their sole discretion.

You're dealing with a mob mentality, plain and simple. Do you want to waste limited resources (time, money, energy) trying to convince your neighbor that s/he should no not expect free money from the government?

You could spend a lifetime trying to change ideology and not make a dent; people have to choose for themselves to wake up, it cannot be forced upon them. And until that happens, they're going to keep asking for more security and more control because it's the way their values have been programmed.

When you think about it, what we call a 'country' is nothing more than a large concentration of people who share common values. Over time, those values adjust and evolve. Today, cultures in many countries value things like fake security, subordination, and ignorance over freedom, independence, and awareness.

When it appears more and more each day that those common values diverge from your own, all that's left of a country are irrelevant, invisible lines on a map. I don't find these worth fighting for.

Nobody is born with a mandatory obligation to invisible lines on a map. Our fundamental obligation is to ourselves, our families, and the people that we choose to let into our circles... not to a piece of dirt that's controlled by mob-installed bureaucrats.

Moving away, i.e. making a calculated decision to seek greener pastures elsewhere, is not the same as 'running away'... and I would argue that if you really want to affect change in your home country, moving away is the most effective course of action.

The government beast in your home country feeds on debt and taxes, and the best way to win is for bright, productive people to move away with their ideas, labor, and assets. This effectively starves the beast and accelerates its collapse. Then, when the smoke clears, you can move back and help rebuild a free society.

I'd really like to know what you think-- which is the right thing to do, stay or leave? What are you planning to do?


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Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:01 | 761482 redpill
redpill's picture

I'd love to be able to, but for a lot of folks it's not in the cards if they want to preserve a fraction of their current lifestyle.  

In the mean time, people can fight the beast by reducing their tax burden as much as possible and not borrowing money for anything.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:36 | 761655 cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

OT...Tyler, you are a real piece o' work! Where do you find all this stuff? You da wizard.... know how to get the crowd buzzin': 74 comments in 40 min. Do you track remarks/min or hour? :)

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 19:26 | 762980 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Tyler doesn't find people. People find Tyler. 

I still think taking your money out of the system and getting  food, supplies, and precious metals is the next best way to affect change, for those who can't "up and leave". 

All ZeroHedgers are welcome in Canada,  your physical is welcome, too!

Any way, check out our latest PsychoNews story: Bailouts, Money Printing, and Reserve Currencies.

"As has been discussed previously here at PsychoNews, it is very likely the US dollar will be replaced as world reserve currency, but what will replace it is still very much up in the air.  An important distinction must be made between the US economy, and the US dollar.  The economy is the result of the entire nation's production and consumption.  The dollar is created out of nothing,  and is controlled by a small elite.  They put their pants on one leg at a time, exactly like you and I, except they can create money out of nothing."

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 20:47 | 763208 Green Leader
Green Leader's picture

"...but what will replace it is still very much up in the air."

Not to the elites.

It's called The Plan.

The Plan will not fail.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 22:35 | 763435 tmosley
tmosley's picture

The best laid plans of mice and men...

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 22:40 | 763448 tmosley
tmosley's picture

The best laid plans of mice and men...

Tue, 11/30/2010 - 02:30 | 763856 michael.suede
michael.suede's picture

10,000 liberty lovers have pledged to move to New Hampshire to overthrow the state's ties to the federal government.

That sounds like a good place to move to.

Learn more here:

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:50 | 761707 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I'd love to be able to, but for a lot of folks it's not in the cards if they want to preserve a fraction of their current lifestyle.

Assuming you're correct and would only be able to preserve a fraction of your lifestyle by moving, what you're really saying is that you/we/us have made, or are making, a conscious decision to have your/my/our (better) cake at the expense of your/my/our liberties and other unquantified loses that most people don't care about anyway.

The pain of the lost liberties you currently experience (which sadly is not much since most people measure their liberties as being able to shop and travel and change jobs) has not over come the perceived pain you might feel if you moved and theoretically diminished your lifestyle.

This is the bottom line. I'm not being judgemental, just stating the obvious. You have been bought by the masters and we have now determined the price. I am in the same boat. Everyone who remains in the USA bitching and complaining but doing noting else is in the same boat.

Now it just comes down to how well we are at rationalizing and justifying our decision. No matter how poor we are, we always can move. The question is simple. Are we better off living in the USA as opposed to living elsewhere? The answer is usually arrived at by staying put and doing nothing. We then make a ton of excuses for doing nothing. 

Doing nothing is just as much a decision as doing something.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:57 | 761734 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

I like to say that "doing nothing is the default option."

I would add that if there are (to pick a number) 100 options, then 90 of them will on analysis come down on the side of the default option.

That is the nature of these kinds of "lifestyle" traps.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:21 | 761825 xanax
xanax's picture

With the exception of the Netherlands, it's very hard for an American to move to another decently modernized country without being independently wealthy and/or having a job lined up where the company is willing to sponsor you.

I find recommendations of Mexico, Chile, Panama, Costa Rica, etc humorous at best.  They are only fit for retirees or people without children.  Raising and educating a family in Mexico is not the panacea you would hope it is.

On a personal note, I have a close friend that moved with his wife down to New Zealand.  They were fed up with the USA and wanted out.  It's only been 6 months, and they've found it sucks just as bad down there.  Massive bureaucracy, petty people, horrible boss, and so on.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:42 | 761935 FatFingered
FatFingered's picture

We learned this morning from TD that it is perfectly legal to send money to Mexico via TBTFs.  No SS needed.  Just brown skin.  Ride the Government's coattails.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 17:27 | 762578 banksterhater
banksterhater's picture

I have a friend from San Diego been in Costa Rica about 5 yrs, the housing bubble was exported there, collapse of tourism, locals hate US ex-pats, now the new Prez has agreed to be militatised by the US Navy, now having port docking rights, we call it "war on drugs" he says it's good for bar and hooker businesses.

They are allowing dredging of rivers for gravel to build highways, destroying eco-structure, near where lots of ex-pats located.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 18:16 | 762748 Bonesetter Brown
Bonesetter Brown's picture

Emigration is hard.  Not that many melting pots to be found.

What about political action for state secession instead?

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 20:50 | 763210 seventree
seventree's picture

Disgruntled Americans talk blithely about "just moving" to some other country where values and lifestyle are similar, unaware that Canada, the UK, and most of Europe do not want Americans to come and stay. They can spend tourist money for 3 - 6 months but after that they will be hunted down and deported as illegal aliens.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 21:52 | 763344 bingocat
bingocat's picture

Just like what happens in the US when people from other countries who think the grass is greener in the US come here...

Tue, 11/30/2010 - 17:44 | 765772 thefedisscam
thefedisscam's picture

Really? Then you need to lobby the Congress harder, since the trend in the U.S. now is they want to keep ALL foreign students who majored in science by offering them green card. Nope, the bill has not passed just yet, but perhaps will.

TOO MANY Americans themselves refuse to study hard and work hard, so the elite in this country want to keep foreign smart brains.

Tue, 11/30/2010 - 19:05 | 766119 seventree
seventree's picture

The original topic referred to mature adults with established careers, or else retirees who are fairly well off, who wished to make their home elsewhere. College graduates are a whole other subject.

Yes, government and business would like foreign students who earn advanced technical degrees to stay in the US. That's because there simply aren't enough native born graduates to fill this need, and that is because there are simply not enough high school graduates available each year prepared to enter such intensive study programs. Lack of ambition, work ethic, and study habits cannot be fixed by remedial programs.

Not long ago foreign graduates were happy to stay here and work, but today many are concerned about the future of the US and anticipate better opportunities in their own countries.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 22:34 | 763432 Clockwork Orange
Clockwork Orange's picture

State secession will only work if we are able to replace the chains that bind the sheeple ... namely, social security & medicare. 

If I am not mistaken, Vermont had 11 secession candidates on the ballot for the mid-term elections ... result not so good.

In the remote instance we could reach the sheeple with the realities debated here, they would balk for fear of forfeiting their percieved claims on the vacant social security trust fund (that has no funds, nor could it be trusted).

A more viable alternative would be to line up some heavy hitters to help fund the sheeples' share of the ponzi if they wise up enough to secede.  

(I'd gladly pitch in ... what the hell, I'm not gonna get anything back that I put in from here forward anyway.)

Until then, fat chance.


Tue, 11/30/2010 - 18:14 | 765954 thefedisscam
thefedisscam's picture

"Thirty nine states of the United States have passed Tenth Amendment resolutions in recent months, stating that they are prepared to re-assert their authority to determine which Federal laws will be enforced within their borders. A few have enacted firearms legislation which states that firearms and ammunition manufactured and sold within the borders of a particular state are not subject to Federal law and regulation. It remains to be seen if Washington will recognize the nullification of Federal gun laws."

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 19:29 | 762886 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

I bugged out to New Zealand in 2006 and found a good job with friendly co-workers and a nice boss.  No regrets.  Yeah, the bureaucracy sucks but it's not as bad as in America, and it lacks the Orwellian flavor. 

NZ bureaucracy tends to revolve around "green tape" and onerous planning / zoning / building ordinances.  If you don't own a house or a business, it will be mostly invisible (except for the car inspection mafia, and the higher cost of living).

Overall taxes are a bit lower than in America, despite an overly generous dole and "socialized medicine" which actually works.

If any Zeroheads are interested, I can provide advice, logistical support and even free rooms, if available.  Email ValisRising attttt g-m-a-i-l dotttttt com.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 20:38 | 763162 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture



I bet $100 internet dollars that most of you here cannot find the tax haven Andorra on the map.


"Andorra has one of the world's lowest unemployment rates, with the statistics on June 2009 showing almost 100% employment within the country."


"Andorra is not a member of the European Union, but enjoys a special relationship with it,...The banking sector, with its tax haven status, also contributes substantially to the economy."



Mon, 11/29/2010 - 20:57 | 763233 SWCroaker
SWCroaker's picture

Sigh.  Mountains between Spain & France.  Where the albino dude in the da Vinci code came from, if you read the book.  (Pretty sure, all of this is from memory).

More to the point, put up $100 bucks for most here to point to the country that is bar none one of the best tax haven's on the planet, IF YOU AREN'T A US CITIZEN.   

Hint, its caricature avatar's name rhymes with Uncle Spam......  Oh yes, that one.  In fact it excels at being a haven for non-citizens, while simultaneously putting one hell of a boot to its own people and corporations.


Gotta luv it.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 21:49 | 763297 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

Spot on SW, okay, i owe you $100 internet dollars.

 - here ya go, transmitting

     >>>01111000100111111111100101100100101001 <<<



Tue, 11/30/2010 - 12:02 | 764476 BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

Andorra: very strange place with strange history. I lived near there for a while. It is difficult to open a bank account there as they are watched closely by the French and Spanish govt. The whole place have "view pollution" of incredible amounts of billboards and factory outlet stores everywhere because of the European shoppers they get there for booze and smokes.

Like most places like that, they are not crazy about outsiders. Not as bad as Corsica though (stunningly beautiful place with documented outright hostility to outsiders).


Tue, 11/30/2010 - 12:04 | 764480 BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

By the way, that was WAY more than 100 there. That worked out to 


according to my math.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 22:57 | 763474 Doctor sahab
Doctor sahab's picture

They should have watched the Flifght of the Concords!

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:14 | 761791 redpill
redpill's picture

You are equating not leaving with doing nothing.  Obviously there are things you can do while remaining in the country to fight the beast.

There is also the implied assumption that there is somewhere else you can go that is not likely to face many of the same issues within the next decade.  A number of the countries Mr. Black discusses have had dictators in the recent past.  He discusses freedoms in countries that within our lifetimes have been under the jack boot of Manuel Noriega and Augusto Pinochet.  So do you trust the Chileans or Panamanians to defend your freedom more than you do Americans?  That winds up being the question, and it's not easy to answer.

Personally I would have to spend a lot of time in one of these countries before I could decide to throw the lives of my family into chaos and move there.  Asking them to leave their friends and family is significant, and not doing so should not be equated with passively sitting on your hands.  You can love freedom, but it can be hard to appreciate if you make you family miserable by moving every 5 years running from the latest government intrusion. 

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:28 | 761843 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

You are equating not leaving with doing nothing. Obviously there are things you can do while remaining in the country to fight the beast.

There is a world of difference between doing something and doing something that is effective. Even if you ramp back your participation in the Ponzi, the Ponzi will simply apply more leverage to obtain the same effect. Mr. Black was talking about being effective and he stated that the most effective method was to leave. I didn't agree or disagree. I was simply responding to your declaration that people would not be able to maintain their current lifestyle if they left. If that is your supposition, it is a deal with the devil.

Now you are bringing more elements into your argument such as where do you go and the stability of that government. That's fine. But you didn't mention them at first so I thought the one reason mentioned, lower lifestyle, was your primary and best argument.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 16:06 | 762103 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

I think the main argument is economic:

Voting with your dollars is always effective.

  1. Don't like TSA butt probes... Don't buy airline tickets. 
  2. Don't like Monsanto GMO crap... Don't buy Conagra, Kraft corporate imitation food.
  3. Don't like corrupt US Corporate Owned Governance... Take you work and tax base elsewhere.

Why should we have any loyalty to the criminals that rape us and claim legitimate authority to rule?

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 21:24 | 763286 MrPalladium
MrPalladium's picture

1. Cancel your cable - detach from the matrix of propaganda and behavior modification.

2. Stop watching pro sports.

3. Save your money in the form of PM's

4. If a third of the U.S. population could be convinced to lock up their credit cards for 5 months and go on a spending strike, the system would collapse and be forced to give in to our demands - difficult but not impossible. It is the lifestyle that creates the problem!

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 16:26 | 762237 Ricky Bobby
Ricky Bobby's picture

+10 I want to emigrate to the US 1880. How do I do that?

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 18:37 | 762803 Rainman
Rainman's picture

I dunno but be sure to get a smallpox shot before you go.

Tue, 11/30/2010 - 12:06 | 764484 BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

Yeah polio too. And watch out for tuberculosis. 

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 18:37 | 762806 tmosley
tmosley's picture

That's a bit much, but there are examples of people successfully emigrating to the US Old West circa 1885.

Back to the Future Part III (1990) - IMDb

Just watch out for Biff's great grandpa.  He's a mean bastard.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 16:55 | 778420 WP
WP's picture


Besides, as a friend constantly states: "I look forward to the coming pandemonium- debts will be paid!"

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 16:39 | 762337 Fahrenheit451
Fahrenheit451's picture

Doing "something" doesn't mean we all have the option of moving outside the country.  I have three little kids, all under six years old.  I've moved a third of my wealth into PM, which are stored in Singapore.  I'm saving every month and of course, not paying off one slim dime of my mortgage. 


But at this point I'm still saving money every month, building my gold and silver hoard and my kids are in fabulous schools.  Why pull the rip chord now?

And if I did, I have savings to live off of for a long while, but not forever.  Where am I going to work?  What about educating my kids?

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 18:56 | 762868 malusDiaz
malusDiaz's picture

You've got 1/3rd of your wealth in PM in Singapore?!?!?! Seriously!?!??!?!


Bet you can't find it. I bet someone has a Promissory Note that they have your PM's in Singapore. Its not yours unless its in your hand. Bury it in the back yard.


Mon, 11/29/2010 - 19:39 | 763013 Fahrenheit451
Fahrenheit451's picture

Yes. I would humbly suggest you do some investigation into the Singapore Freeport.  Having all your gold here in the US isn't going to do you much good when there are capital controls/confiscation.  I feel very comfortable having my own gold in secured allocated storage with a business friendly government and favorable banking secrecy/taxation laws. 


Trust me, it was a lot of research on my part to do this privately, but I visited my bullion a few months ago and I have the only key to my box.


Once you aquire enough metal that home storage is not ideal, and you rule out the banks, offshore storasge is the best option, IMO.  Plus it mitigates the need to have a get out of dodge pad.  If TSHTF, I just buy 5 tickets to Singapore and watch the carnage on CNN International.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 22:26 | 763420 Ace
Ace's picture

Having some gold or cash available outside of country is only a small part of the answer.

Many people seem to think they will be able to just leave the US if/when TSHTF. If history is any indicator, that's a risky proposition at best. Possible issues include: access to funds to buy tickets (which could become very costly), potential closure of airlines, restrictions on who is allowed to leave the country (and what property they can take), or even a sudden flood of others with the same idea and a resulting 12-month backlog before seats are available.



Mon, 11/29/2010 - 23:59 | 763615 chindit13
chindit13's picture

Singapore is not the sort of place that takes kindly to people who fail to honor their debts, whatever the rationale.  They operate a clean, but rather strict society.  Hopefully if you bug out you'll leave some of your current practices behind. 

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 16:58 | 762467 DosZap
DosZap's picture


No the reason its not feasible, is the PAIN inflicted directly to him/her, hasn't reached that point yet.Meaning LIFES still too good.

The attitudinal shift will occur, when you wont be able to leave.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 21:46 | 763329 molecool
molecool's picture

Hey buddy - good to see you around. Well, as an immigrant I can tell you that changing countries (and acquiring a new citizenship) is a mountain of work. It's something that I however encourage doing in your twenties and maybe even thirties. It gets a lot more difficult once you're pushing fourty, and especially once you started a family.

It also depends on the person - some people respond better to change than others. Finally, there's the language barrier - in most cases. It's one thing to move to France as an American or German - it's another to move to Korea. Finally, a piece of advice - where ever you move, make sure that you love the food - that's half the battle ;-)

Tue, 11/30/2010 - 03:53 | 763899 No More Bubbles
No More Bubbles's picture

Doing nothing is just as much a decision as doing something.


"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice" - Rush lyric

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:59 | 761740 Gordon_Gekko
Gordon_Gekko's picture

Define "lifestyle". Certainly it is a very limited sphere of thinking that allows one to accept that the american/western "lifestyle" is better than any other. It only means that you haven't experienced any other. And considering the fact that 1 in 5 (or is that 1 in 3) Americans is depressed, I certainly wouldn't think of it being "good/better" in any way, shape or form.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:20 | 761817 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

+10,000 Gordo. Big Pharma has them convinced that "being depressed" is not their fault. "Just a chemical imbalance that our pill will fix right up!" BULLSHIT!!

They take ALL while the populus is in a fuzzed our pharma induced haze.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:31 | 761876 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Big pharma doesn't say that. Medicine says that for some it is a genetic chemical imbalance, like bipolar, schizophrenia, etc. There are also lots of other causes like job loss, personal trauma and socialist governments. The pills will just let you feel better about it. Doesn't fix anything, just helps you deal with it. No one is forced to take anything, either. Go herbal, go pharma, go counseling, go naturale. It's your choice.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:35 | 761886 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

Big Pharma OWNS medicine. Do you have any more arguments? I am sorry if you take these every day and forget what it was like to be pissed. Because WE ALL NEED TO BE PISSED.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 18:30 | 762783 Kali
Kali's picture

baseline bitchez!

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:45 | 761947 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Big pharma doesn't say that. Medicine says that for some it is a genetic chemical imbalance, like bipolar, schizophrenia, etc.

I've often wondered if this is a chicken and egg kind of thing. Did the chemical imbalance cause the mood "disorder" or did the mood "disorder" cause the chemical imbalance? I suspect many people are facing a crisis of spirituality. Notice I didn't say religion or God. The drugs just paper over the underlying issues.

For the vast majority of people, they're desperately miserable and unhappy not only with their jobs, but their lives, their choices and their future in an endlessly dissatisfying and increasingly manufactured life. They're saying to themselves "There must be something better than this?" and they would be correct.

But the system has programmed them to believe that the only way you can have the cars and vacations (and whatever else the system tells you is what you want) is to stay locked into the insanity of the system. No matter how well fed and cared for the lion, chimpanzee, monkey or elephant is, when placed in captivity most go insane. We humans just use drugs to keep the insane people working and functioning reasonably well so as not to destroy productivity.

Welcome to the prison planet. 

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 16:33 | 762284 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

In Colorado, physicians are required to disclose how much dollar value in the form of money, free samples, golf vacations, merchandise, etc. that they receive from pharmaceutical companies to the state licensing commission. Many of them "forgot" to report.

I would like to know how many other states have this requirement.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 17:47 | 762663 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

How about Congress do the same?

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 18:23 | 762762 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

Now that would be the day wouldn't it be??  They should at least wear suits (fireproof & bulletproof) like the NASCAR guys do showing the public who has paid for them.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 19:57 | 763069 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Lol! Now that's the best damn idea I've heard in a long time. What a kick that would be. Maybe they'd settle for ballcaps.

Wed, 12/01/2010 - 23:39 | 770742 Common_Cents22
Common_Cents22's picture

anyone paid by taxpayers should be required to carry a webcam and broadcast to the net during any working hours.   don't like it?  get a job in private industry.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 17:05 | 762506 DosZap
DosZap's picture


"I've often wondered if this is a chicken and egg kind of thing. Did the chemical imbalance cause the mood "disorder" or did the mood "disorder" cause the chemical imbalance? I suspect many people are facing a crisis of spirituality. Notice I didn't say religion or God. The drugs just paper over the underlying issues"


It's all of the above,in which order is dependent on ones circumstances,and genetics,or belief stystems, or lack thereof.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 17:06 | 762508 DosZap
DosZap's picture


"I've often wondered if this is a chicken and egg kind of thing. Did the chemical imbalance cause the mood "disorder" or did the mood "disorder" cause the chemical imbalance? I suspect many people are facing a crisis of spirituality. Notice I didn't say religion or God. The drugs just paper over the underlying issues"


It's all of the above,in which order is dependent on ones circumstances,and genetics,or belief stystems, or lack thereof.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 17:06 | 762509 DosZap
DosZap's picture


"I've often wondered if this is a chicken and egg kind of thing. Did the chemical imbalance cause the mood "disorder" or did the mood "disorder" cause the chemical imbalance? I suspect many people are facing a crisis of spirituality. Notice I didn't say religion or God. The drugs just paper over the underlying issues"


It's all of the above,in which order is dependent on ones circumstances,and genetics,or belief stystems, or lack thereof.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 18:35 | 762796 Walter_Sobchak
Walter_Sobchak's picture

Ever seen Superjail?  great show on adult swim.  CD-i have a theory that there are only a few "wild" humans left now-most have been thoroughly domesticated, ie in a permanent child-like state.  Those of us who at one point refused our conditioning and took the red pill are the re-wilded, and we desire to be free.  Only where can we go?  the water is polluted, the land is policed, and every nation in the world is on the brink of world economic disaster.  Sometimes seems like a nightmare that i can't wake up from.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 19:07 | 762909 Going Loco
Going Loco's picture

For most people it's not a crisis of spirituality, it's a crisis of stupidity.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 16:05 | 762100 destraht
destraht's picture

Big Pharma's trick is calling everything a disease and then only doctors can cure diseases. For example; I can help you lose weight but I can't cure your obesity. They are increasingly framing everything this way. There is a bill in the Senate now which will really fuck with food. Monsanto just bought a large stake in Xe (Blackwater) mercenary army. The people that want you to be sick and dependent are getting serious now and they want to shut you down.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 17:42 | 762644 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

It's not a trick. You have to have a disease that can be coded in order to get reimbursed and you have to have a disease state in order to get an indication from the FDA. It's just part of applying science to health. You have to have terminology that will be commonly understood so that you can go to CA, FL or even France and get a commonly understood diagnosis.

Pharma doesn't own medicine but its a big part of it. You can get diagnosed but what good is it if there's nothing to treat the disease or injury? In the early 1900's doctors were actually very good at diagnosis but they had very few treatments. Accordingly they earned less than the average school teacher. With the advance of medicines, MRI's and surgical techniques they can treat virtually anything. For that, you get paid several multiples of a teacher's salary...but a lot less time off, lol.

Hence you have physicians, pharma, hospitals and makers of equipment to diagnose or treat. Above them all are the insurers who decide what will be paid and how much and under what conditions. They are the only ones who know all the true costs in the system. What you see on paper or published is nowhere near the real (lower) reimbursement rates.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:42 | 761937 cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

Spoken like a true "us" vs "them" honcho who don't know shit. Too bad you didn't get to live MY life the last 30 years, on and off the pills (denial being a part of that), barely crawling through any given day till finally, just by grace, found one RX that really works - consistently & continuously. In many if not most cases, depression is metabolic. Major factor is faulty uptake of seratonin in the brain. Read a book & med periodicals. Consider this: "there but for the grace of God, go [you]"

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:44 | 761953 cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

WTF? replies getting mis-positioned for me lately...last was for RipChnk

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 16:38 | 762335 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

Change your job, change your wife, change your diet, exercise more than you need to. In other words: CHANGE YOUR LIFE - get out of your rut.

Don't bitch at me for pointing out obvious macro trends. Your case may be different. Or it may not be. I did the "chemical experiment" with a shrink for a while myself. It's bullshit. See it for what it is.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 18:45 | 762831 philgramm
philgramm's picture

I am a physician and I wholeheartedly agree with you here.  The psychiatric disorders that are being "diagnosed" today are, in my opinion, not much more than your own spirit disagreeing with how your life is being lead.  We used to face our problems and deal with them accordingly before pills became the magic bullets that promised to get rid of the problems.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 19:12 | 762923 Rainman
Rainman's picture

...hey, there's a pill for disagreeable spirits too, ya know.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 23:48 | 763587 cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

too broad a brush, Doc (BTW how long you been in "practice"?) Now, I will concede there's a hand-full of dubious "diagnoses" cooked up to fill pages of DSM 4, and to hook into the insurance-coverage-cause-it-has-a-name. BUT I don't hink you can in fairness just trash all diagnoses, some of which widely accepted as organic 

Tue, 11/30/2010 - 00:06 | 763628 cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

did the old chem expt with a shrink, huh? what happened? hit a little "rough patch" in your life, did ya? You pussy. You wouldn't last 2 weeks in my shoes. Nonetheless, it's so refreshing to come across somebody who's such a fucking expert on other peoples' lives. PS: I don't dispute the "macro trends", nor the collusion amongst MD's, BigP, etc. so don't bitch at me, either. What set me off was your "all-or-nothing" stance. Best wishes.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 17:45 | 762654 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I do know very well what I am speaking of and I have bipolar family members. Good for you in finding something that worked. It's sometimes a painfully long trial and error process. Sometimes I tire of people here who act like they know anything about a profession or industry and attribute everything to conspiracy and secret agreements to keep us all down or enslaved. Hope your life is good from here on out. 

Tue, 11/30/2010 - 00:18 | 763656 cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

Thanks, Guy. Figured there might be "one" out there..... Things definitely getting better; thanks again.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:29 | 761865 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Good to see you Gordon. As you said, big difference between "life" and "lifestyle." And feeling down is only gowing up

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:40 | 761912 redpill
redpill's picture

Lifestyle?  Living near family, good jobs, clean and safe neighborhood, perfect weather, etc.  Both my wife and I have good jobs but our skills are geared toward U.S. specific situations that could not be easily adapted to work abroad.  Doesn't mean we couldn't do something else, we would just be sacrificing a lot of earning power, on top of leaving behind family/friends, two careers worth of business contacts and starting from scratch.

It has to be very convincing that moving somewhere else is going to be a net gain in lifestyle for the sacrifices involved.  Call me Dagny, but I'm not done fighting here yet.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 21:30 | 763299 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

Hey Redpill:

I'm not trying to be overly judgemental, but from reading your arguments I think you're hung up on "earning power", thus kind of missing the point.  One earns in order to buy things of "value".  Thus we are trapped.  Look at how many people bust their ass 3000 hours a year to be able to spend weekends at a cabin in the middle of nowhere.  Know what it costs to live at that cabin fulltime?  Scratch.

You talk about everything in terms of money, and that's telling.  It seems that you're only placing value on the things that money can buy.  If you aren't able to just pick up and quit the system, so be it.  It takes time, ass busting work, and hard core commitment to the decision that "things" don't matter any more.  If you plain ass aren't willing to change lifestyles that's fine too.  All I know is that the day my wife and I said "Fuck it", it changed our lives, because it put us in control. 

I still "earn" quite well, but now I pick my jobs I take.  And the people I work for know that if they push too hard I'll just tell them to get fucked and walk away.  I cash every check expecting it to be my last one.  And when it is finally the last one, I'm going to laugh my ass all the way to the bank with it.  Then I'm ging to kiss my wife, hug my kids, and play some dumb board game while I think about all the money I'm not paying in taxes, and love my diminished lifestyle.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 16:01 | 762077 destraht
destraht's picture

I lived in Nicaragua for a year.  My take is that the lifestyle is much better for me.  I was able to get the open free Internet there and I had a lot of time on my hands. My money was coming in from the US though so its somewhat safe to say that not everyone could do that. Things like hot water in the shower were not that important because the cold water was much warmer than in California. It was a non-issue for me. 

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 18:02 | 762707 youngman
youngman's picture

I moved to Colombia two years decision in my life...I got fed up with the rules, regulations, lawyers, politicians, reporters, etc....The USA is now just a sinking ship...the future I see is less people working..more on the government dole...more violence, less honesty, corruption, a bad way to die...I only have 20 years left and I did not want to spend it in all that hate...

Tue, 11/30/2010 - 03:33 | 762916 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

Plenty of Expats in Ghana, West Africa. I spent a year in Ghana, most amazing place and people. Liked it so much that an associate and I built a three bedroom house there, it's our "get-away" homestead.


The economy is booming in Ghana, 15% growth per year, lots of job opportunities. Major exports are Gold, Oil, Timber, Bauxite, Iron Ore, Cocoa, etc., etc.



Mon, 11/29/2010 - 19:18 | 762949 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Good to see you, Gordon.  The only thing I can see to change about your comment is that you should put quotes around "depressed".   Some are depressed, and some are "depressed".  Being unsatisfied is unsettling, uncomfortable, disheartening, etc.   But "depressed" is thrown about too easily in today's culture.  Many folks just need a little jog in the woods or spend some time on a trout stream.  Works wonders!

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:14 | 761750 Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

I am <30 and in living in my 2nd 'foreign' country

I am socialy incompatible with the nation i was born in, so it was a question of preserving my sanity or lossing it

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 21:09 | 763259 Rhodin
Rhodin's picture

Many have decided they cannot leave USA and/or prefer to stay and "fight".  If that is your decision, but you still must move, and you are in need of a place to either "hunker down" or "stand and fight" may i suggest:


Mon, 11/29/2010 - 23:12 | 763510 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

Another reason is fear, fear of the unknown.  In many peoples thinking and even in mine, the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know.  I stay because I know the beast, and when you know the beast you can figure out how to manouver around it and fight it.  I agree that leaving would be great (that true Rome analogy fits perfectly with the US and possibly other countries), but coming back you would feel more like a foreign person rather than an American after so long and you might not recognize the country you left.  Then again your coming back to remake it so it maybe doesn't matter.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:02 | 761490 xPat
xPat's picture

I left in 2009 for many of these reasons, and I can tell you it's not that easy.

You can run but you can't hide. No matter where you go or what nationality you acquire, your place of birth is still listed in your passport. The USA keeps making more enemies around the world, and Americans will increasingly be targets of hate crimes.

Leaving was still the right decision for me, but it's not a panecea either.


Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:27 | 761600 flacon
flacon's picture

I also left USA in 2009.


I haven't given up citizenship yet though, which means I am still responsible for paying USA taxes if I earn more than a certain amount. 

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:02 | 761491 BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

The most salient question is: where do you go?

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:03 | 761496 redpill
redpill's picture

Panama and Chile are a couple of Mr. Black's recommended spots.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:35 | 761653 Mad Max
Mad Max's picture

Panama is always less than an hour from being run and patrolled by US troops at the US president's whim.  If it weren't for that, it would look better.

Chile is a bit more interesting.

I agree with the logic of moving to greener pastures, but I've been searching for them for several years now without luck.  Some places that initially look pretty green are quite ugly when you get to hear honest views from the residents.  Even Canada gets poor marks from a friend of a relative who moved there expecting an end to US silliness.  I believe Alberta was described as a sort of Texas with a different accent.

This is not to say I'm not still looking, but "where to" is a crucial question.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:04 | 761751 oddjob
oddjob's picture

Yukon or BC,or New Zealand if they let you in.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 18:09 | 762728 BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

I live in Alberta already, it's tiring to have no democracy and very small minded politicians, but otherwise it's not bad. Have family in the Yukon, it actually has a similar climate but the winter darkness and distinct lack of jobs is a problem. BC at least has day and night all year  round but still grim on jobs.

Perhaps I won't need a job when TSHTF.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:21 | 761827 Ragnarok
Ragnarok's picture

Unfortunately Alberta has become corrupted from one party rule (Progressive Conservative) and its wealth.  Hopefully the Wild rose alliance will Destroy the PC party and Stelmach.  You still have to deal with the Euro Socialists in Ottawa though.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:29 | 761862 oddjob
oddjob's picture

I'm on pins and needles waiting for the first Micheal Ignatieff slag-fest.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:44 | 761948 Ragnarok
Ragnarok's picture

When Harper told the libertarians (former Reformers) in his party to shove it and bought off Quebec, I knew there was no hope left.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 18:28 | 762776 russki standart
russki standart's picture

Panama´s security is guaranteed by the US but internal matters are of no concern to the US except where it involves matters of national security. Hence, in Panama, you actually have the best of both worlds, American military security, without the cost  and taxes paid supporting bureaucratic parasites.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 17:47 | 762658 banksterhater
banksterhater's picture

Better check Panama, I think you need $200K in their banks and not sure you can work unless you open a biz and emply people, many restrictions around the world changing all the time. Ugly American will be trapped eventually.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 18:30 | 762782 russki standart
russki standart's picture

Not true bankster hater. You can get residency in Panama for $80,000 plus a few thousand in legal fees. The bigger issue is that you will be taxed no matter where you live if you are a American. In other words, you are a slave by birth.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 17:47 | 762660 banksterhater
banksterhater's picture

Better check Panama, I think you need $200K in their banks and not sure you can work unless you open a biz and emply people, many restrictions around the world changing all the time. Ugly American will be trapped eventually.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 17:47 | 762661 banksterhater
banksterhater's picture

Better check Panama, I think you need $200K in their banks and not sure you can work unless you open a biz and emply people, many restrictions around the world changing all the time. Ugly American will be trapped eventually.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:05 | 761504 Trying to Understand
Trying to Understand's picture

I could, I should, I probably would if I knew where to consider going....

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:06 | 761512 redpill
redpill's picture

Go to Simon Black's website, sign up for his free newsletter and/or read the archives.  You'll know where to consider and why.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:57 | 761733 cxl9
cxl9's picture

For several years I have been telling any of my fellow Americans who cared to listen to get portable job skills and get out. I grew up on the East coast of the United States, and I love my country, but the American way of life is a rip-off. It was not always thus, but it certainly is now. Debt slavery, high taxes, endless government intrusion and petty harassment, a growing police state, an absurdly high cost-of-living, and a shallow, dim-witted consumerist culture. I now live in Mexico and love it. As a libertarian, Mexico's minimally-functioning government suits me just fine. The streets are more or less paved. I'm told that if you call the police, they eventually show up (the last time I called the police in the United States - to report a hit and run - they never bothered to come at all). There are no inspectors snooping through my garbage to see if I put my recycling in the wrong bin. The weather is nicer, the cost of living is cheaper, and the girls are friendlier. Sadly, America is a sinking ship, because of problems that are too big, too systemic, and too entrenched to ever fix. But I'll be right here, with a big bowl of palomitas de maíz, watching her go. Peace and luck, all.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 19:10 | 762919 Walter_Sobchak
Walter_Sobchak's picture

Which parts of Mexico are good?  All you can see on the boobtube is images of violence.  And I mean that sincerely, i would love to live there.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 20:46 | 763204 Rainman
Rainman's picture

Ixtapa if you like sailfishing.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 22:03 | 763369 Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

Puebla (SE of Mexico City) is nice; I was there for a couple of months.

The violence is mostly confined to the border region.  FWIW, the Mexicans I met are as horrified as we about it.  They are also similar in that they feel screwed by NAFTA; lots of big US corps came in and steamrolled the non-competitive local companies. 

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:20 | 761579 tmosley
tmosley's picture

I was thinking one of the thousands of islands in the South Pacific.  

Seems like it would be difficult to police those thousands upon thousands of islands, so you would probably be left pretty well alone except for any local authorities.

A goodly sized group of people, like an extended family, or a network of family and friends would probably do fine in such a location.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:04 | 761760 Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

Indonesia or Malasia, have 1000s of islands you could very well dissapear there

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:42 | 761931 Don Birnam
Don Birnam's picture

Disappear indeed -- in the literal sense. Said region of the world is ripe with piracy, where opportunistic gain is the object, and ransom's the game. The Ex-Patriate American, possessing the financial resources for such a purchase and relocation: a pretty prize, to be sure. Yes, a wealthy man could set up his own dominion on some deserted atoll ( think Dr. No, less the nefarious designs ), but he would need, at the very least, a modest personal defense force of naval and land components, in order to secure this singular lifestyle -- drawn, doubtless, from the native, regional population -- whose loyalties could be somewhat "flexible." 

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 18:37 | 762801 Kali
Kali's picture

Indeed.  Also, with sea levels rising, many of those islands may be under water soon. 

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 18:42 | 762819 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Propaganda.  And yes, I would stake my life on it.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 19:51 | 763009 Kali
Kali's picture

REally?  Then I suggest you go to Palau, a place where someone in this post suggested moving to.  They are already evacuating the population.  Have any of you people who make these comments ever really go to these places?  I have been to many mentioned.  Go, if you feel you must, I am scoping myself and have been for years.  But even in countries where I have native blood relatives, just the fact that I am from the US and half white, is enough reason for them to not trust and dislike me at face value.  Someone else here mentioned, and I agree, just wait for TSHTF.  We'll see how easy it is for you then.  US people will be some of the most hated people ever, just like the Nazis were after WWII.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 22:01 | 763366 Bob
Bob's picture

I've been expecting the same.  Be real careful about assuming eternal goodwill as an American. 

Tue, 11/30/2010 - 03:55 | 763900 Mariposa de Oro
Mariposa de Oro's picture


I've been living on Kwajalein Atoll for three and a half years. The ocean is maybe 50 yards from my door.  We have many homes 20 feet from the water.  WE DO NOT HAVE RISING WATER.  IT LOOKS EXACLTY THE SAME AS AUGUST 2007 WHEN I ARRIVED.   I haven't seen water coming onshore, even during the recent tsunamis muchless any other time.  I haven't heard of Palau evacutating.  If they are, its due to poverty as there is plenty in these island nations.  If they can get the brainwashed greenies to pay for why the hell not?  I'd love to get money from the environazis myself!  About three years ago Al Gore predicted the polar ice caps would be completely melted within 5 years, and the island nations submerged.  No rising waters yet.  Do your blood pressure a favor and spit out the green kool-aid.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 20:35 | 763176 Cleve Meater
Cleve Meater's picture

See, this is part of the problem: Americans have been taught (brainwashed?) that the world outside our borders is this awful, dangerous place.  There's pirates and kidnappers lurking around every corner.  For the most part it's rubbish... Most places on the planet aren't any more or less dangerous than any major city in the U.S.  Sure, if you conduct yourself like the "Ugly American" the odds are better that you become a victim, but if you aren't conducting yourself like a first class jerk, people will leave you alone.

I live in a development on the outskirts of a very poor (and very rough) town in Central America. Typical Friday night is lots of drunks, lots of fights, some drugs, fireworks, cops, etc.  My kid played baseball with their kids... We built a children's park for the neighborhood.  I buy fish, fruit and groceries from the vendors in town... We stop and talk with them often.  We're a hell of a lot more respectful than the wealthy a-hole locals down here who treat them like serfs.

If four years, I haven't even gotten a sideways look.  Am I at risk?  Who knows... But in the U.S. (and in a nice neighborhood before I bailed out), I had a knife pulled on me by a murderer in an alley the same night he stabbed a lady to death; a neighbor and friend was shot in the chest and his girlfriend pistol-whipped just down the street; another neighbor's kid was murdered by a deranged psychopath just let out of the loony bin... etc. etc.  I'd say my odds are here are better.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:48 | 761703 midtowng
midtowng's picture

That's the most important question. It's not like there are a lot of great countries out there to move to, and most of those have impossible restrictions to emigrants.

I will agree with one thing in this essay: nationalism is an artificial construct. Borders are drawn by force of arms and nothing more.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:10 | 761779 Doctor sahab
Doctor sahab's picture

Being from India I would go back there. Your money goes far. English is spoken nationwide. It is a democracy and more and more enterprenuership is valued. If you are white, you eventually get used to all the kids pointing fingers at you!

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:02 | 761493 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

I think we should try impeachment first....

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:07 | 761520 DosZap
DosZap's picture

My vote for the last few years is a CON CON.

Our Const needs some Amending.

38 states, name their delegates, and we change this bitch back like it should be.( Congress/POTUS NO say).

No more EO's, or PDD's, term limits,no more lifetime appts,SCOTUS back under control,etc,etc,etc.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:25 | 761601 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

As much as I hate to say it, as little real attention and respect as the Constitution gets nowadays the "risks" of a Con Con get lower every day.  The problem is, the political class would have a lock on attendees, and we'd get a bankster heaven codified even more heavenly than what we have now.

No more ALJs, no more Fed, it's fun to think about.


Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:50 | 761995 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture


I'll go down swinging in the Rockies.

If you don't stand for something, you stand for nothing.

"after the smoke clears". LOL. We'll all be so glad to accept freedom again. Form vigilant, self-sustaining communities now or get scalped with the rest of the refugees.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 21:09 | 763256 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture


Mon, 11/29/2010 - 22:51 | 763464 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

No better rally cry than that.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 16:29 | 762257 kwiebe
kwiebe's picture

I'm in this camp too.  Heard abt this guy the other day, he has a good plan in terms of fixes, and also a good argument that alleviates the usual gnashing of teeth you get from some when the CON CON subject comes up:

Also, at this point, to me the most promising foreign nation I'm thinking about moving to is Texas, if you know what I mean. It seems like it would be the place to be when things start to dissolve.

Sat, 12/04/2010 - 17:06 | 778436 WP
WP's picture

Texas! Yup but we do have problems to resolve, but MANY of us are fed up and have seen what is here, coming, and nearly upon us and have been planning accordingly.

As a friend states constantly: "I look forward to the coming pandemonium- debts will be paid!"

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:24 | 761602 detersbb
detersbb's picture



Politics is simply a means of resolution to a difference of opinion, upon which/at the solution of there becomes more problems because of "wronged" party's perception(s) not all that undifferent from a Hydra in the chronicles of Hercules. 


Politics never Never NEVER solved anything in the long run, period.  I am a Politial Science major and have sought to the ends of political/legal philosophy a solution only to see that the only solution there is must come from within, never without, because it is the perception that creates problems.  That is enough for now, but really impeachment?  How removal from office instead?  Ignorance.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:49 | 761709 midtowng
midtowng's picture

Impeach who? There are so many who deserve it, and so few that I would like to see replace them.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:32 | 761879 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

so true, and don't you have to lie about a woman to get impeached?

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:05 | 761506 Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture

Leo .... Leeeeeeeeeeoooooooo .....


Solars = Blowtorched.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:11 | 761535 doomandbloom
doomandbloom's picture

Normally, at such comments, Leo responds saying that he has already taken profits and is currently adding to his positions....


Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:41 | 761674 Kayman
Kayman's picture

And flips out the picture of the raging Scotsman and calls him Greek.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:06 | 761514 Belrev
Belrev's picture

Where do you move nowadays, as it seems every country on Earth is now controlled by its own beast.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 20:00 | 763078 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

What I was thinking.

To find Utopia and establish a country with an economy that is based on honest money, where citizens employ a small group of regulators, empowered by the constitution, to protect the liberty and inalienable rights of the individual, that offers protection against intrusive government, that enshrines zero taxes against a man's wages and places the fear of death against any bureaucrat treasonous enough to breach the constitution, or any banker who would corrupt the money of the land, or any judge corrupt enough to accept bribes in support of ruling in favor of re-interpretation of the constitution, is all but dreaming. Where would you find a country with a constitution like that these days?

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:09 | 761515 squexx
squexx's picture

Impeachment?!? Drag them by the hair to the gallows!

Barney Frank considers leaving Congress:

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:07 | 761516 Prophet of Wise
Prophet of Wise's picture

Only one solution remains...

"While you were dragging to your sacrificial altars the men of justice, of independence, of reason, of wealth, of self-esteem -- I beat you to it, I reached them first. I told them the nature of the game you were playing and the nature of that moral code of yours, which they had been too innocently generous to grasp. I showed them the way to live by another morality-mine. It is mine that they chose to follow.

All the men who have vanished, the men you hated, yet dreaded to lose; it is I who have taken them away from you. Do not attempt to find us. We do not choose to be found. Do not cry that it is our duty to serve you. We do not recognize such duty. Do not cry that you need us. We do not consider need a claim. Do not cry that you own us. You don't. Do not beg us to return. We are on strike, we, the men of the mind.

We are on strike against self-immolation. We are on strike against the creed of unearned rewards and unrewarded duties. We are on strike against the dogma that the pursuit of one's happiness is evil. We are on strike against the doctrine that life is guilt.

There is a difference between our strike and all those you've practiced for centuries: our strike consists, not of making demands, but of granting them. We are evil, according to your morality. We have chosen not to harm you any longer. We are useless, according to your economics. We have chosen not to exploit you any longer. We are dangerous and to be shackled, according to your politics. We have chosen not to endanger you, nor to wear the shackles any longer. We are only an illusion, according to your philosophy. We have chosen not to blind you any longer and have left you free to face reality -- the reality you wanted, the world as you see it now, a world without mind." -- John Galt, Atlas Shrugged 1957


Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:11 | 761540 Vergeltung
Vergeltung's picture

great passage!

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:28 | 761620 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Thomas Woods        NULLIFICATION

Read it. Do it. 

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:33 | 761641 flacon
flacon's picture


Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:43 | 761683 capitalist bison
capitalist bison's picture

you beat me to it. great quote

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:13 | 761788 Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

"There's no way to rule innocent men.  The only power any government has is to crack down on criminals.  Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them.  One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.  Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens?  What's there in that for anyone?  But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted--and you create a nation of law-breakers--and then you cash in on guilt.  Now that's the system, Mr. Rearden, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with.

Dr. Floyd Ferris, ibid

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:16 | 761797 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+++ from the Bearing as well.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 16:29 | 762255 MiguelitoRaton
MiguelitoRaton's picture

I was going to write the same thing (a quick search for "Atlas" took me to your passage). I have started 3 companies, took one public, sold two. Now doing another start-up. As soon as I sell, I'll take my skills and become a farmer, something I really look forward to. I too want to starve the beast. I refuse to continue to support those who deride me for success, while living off my tax payments. I refuse to support a corrupt and suicidal government. There I will wait until we reset the system and then I will emerge to do what I do best once again. It may take 20+ years, so be it.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 16:48 | 762411 G-R-U-N-T
G-R-U-N-T's picture

Hm...Atlas Shrugged absolutely damn right. Everyone ought to read Rand's novel...It cleared the fog in my head about how things work. It quite literally changed my skewed perceptions and gave me clarity on how to live.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:07 | 761519 Vergeltung
Vergeltung's picture

as a present citizen of the US, it is certainly an interesting question and proposed solution. the modern day correlary question becomes; where to?

where do we reolocate our family to? I don't see any decent alternatives.......

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:13 | 761547 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Do NOT call yourself a citizen, you are a SOVERIGN.

If everyone knew this, this shit would end.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 22:22 | 763408 Green Leader
Green Leader's picture

For those who junked you:

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:33 | 761643 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

I used to think about leaving, but as you note there are no decent alternatives.

First, the EE is global. While you may be able to find relative short-term safety in an area, there is no guarantee that you won't wake up in a police state the next morning. Even if you do manage to stay one step ahead of the executioner, what does that make you but a perpetual tourist? Now, given the attitudes of distrust against foreigners, how much safety can you ever really have in a devolving society as an outsider? Do you really think your wealth can protect you, or does it merely make you a larger target?

Even worse, as a tourist, you lose all advantages available to locals who know their environment. You can't blend in, and you do not know where safety can be had, nor can you get there, as you cannot move about invisibly as part of the herd. You stick out as a helpless target. Your only survival option in this case is to swear loyalty to (and pay-off) the local EE regime.

To me the answer is to take Black's advice of walking away, from goverment, that is, while strengthening social ties locally. A stable society is a bottom-up proposition, built upon lifetimes of trust relationships. To run away from an unstable society, is to abandon it altogether, and is no solution whatsoever, but in reality, a tool of the oppressors that allows them to prey on the weak with their further draconian "solutions."

As always, we can run, but we cannot hide. Society will not be rebuilt by those on the run, because they will discover, once you leave, you can't ever really return home.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:37 | 761658 Vergeltung
Vergeltung's picture

well put. thanks for the response.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:49 | 761705 Kayman
Kayman's picture

Excellent discussion.

Any ideas about hiding in plain sight ?

How to live well with minimum tax consequences to feed the growing belly of the beast ??

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 18:58 | 762875 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Read and organize. Many do not consider possible invasion in the coming years. For example, the narco-cartels are already present, networked, and violent.

The Freedom Outlaw's Handbook: 179 Things to Do 'Til the Revolution

Claire Wolfe is back and has expanded her original 101 Things to Do 'Til the Revolution to 179 thought-and-action items. Some will work for nearly everyone. Some are for those who are more radical. Some are serious. Some are fun. All of them will shore up the privacy barrier that's being eroded - if not downright blasted away - by the Patriot Act, by corporate "Little Brotherism", and by other laws and regulations. Better yet, Claire will inspire you to free your own Inner Outlaw and kick tyrant butt so you can win back freedom. The choices you make are up to you. But if you've been sitting back waiting for the water to get a little hotter before you jump out of the big government, total control vat, Claire gives you 179 tools to help you plan and work.


Molon Labe!

After a decade of retaking their stolen freedoms, the people of Wyoming (many of them newcomers) are forced to finally confront their jealous masters in the U.S. Government. Can a lone, courageous state successfully resist federal tyranny, or has the Bill of Rights been reduced to a myth? Can an allegedly free people act free, or is our liberty just a 4th of July farce? These issues weigh heavily on the shoulders of Governor James Wayne Preston, a decorated Desert Storm Marine helo pilot. Elected in 2014 on the Laissez-Faire Party ticket, he enjoys nearly full support of the legislature to return Wyoming to a long-lost era of liberty. But how far can he and the people of his state go before Washington, D.C. feels compelled to act? Will Wyoming's free and independent course reach actual secession? Will President Melvin Connor suppress the maverick Western state with federal troops? Will anybody come to Wyoming's aid? Molon Labe! is a fictional account of a real-world blueprint for a free state initiative focused on Wyoming. If enough freedom-loving individuals will relocate there under a useful pattern, they can "liberate" the Cowboy State on many levels. In Wyoming we could truly enjoy our rights of gun ownership, privacy, schooling, health and diet, unrestricted travel, and property. Boston shows us how it actually can be done!

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 21:13 | 763268 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Read and organize.

Stately put.  The empire ends by complacently giving into what?  You don't know until you know.  Bands of roving gypsies could be the best thing!

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 16:20 | 762209 destraht
destraht's picture

I disagree that you have to be local to know what is going on and how to be safe. Simply put there are people in every bar that like to talk about this sort of stuff. If it is important to you and interesting to you then you will find others that know what is going on. People out there in the wild form information networks.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 16:21 | 762215 destraht
destraht's picture

I disagree that you have to be local to know what is going on and how to be safe. Simply put there are people in every bar that like to talk about this sort of stuff. If it is important to you and interesting to you then you will find others that know what is going on. People out there in the wild form information networks.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 20:25 | 763149 MileMarker17
MileMarker17's picture

Two and a half years ago, I too thought seriously about leaving the country.  I did an incredible amount of research.  After a year of research, I had it narrowed down to one country, Uruguay.  A country of agricultural richness, copious amounts of fresh water, a highly educated people, an extremely low population density and great natural beauty.  I got so close to leaving I told friends and family that I was outta here.

But I couldn't pull the trigger, doubts started creeping in.  The biggest one I had was what I heard from other expats.  About being thousands of miles away from family and friends, about feeling like an "outsider" in a new country, about a totally different lifestyle, where the pace of life was much calmer and slower, but where it was impossible to get anything done without much frustration.

So, I changed my focus, decided that while I needed to get away from the highly regulated county in which I live, needed to give up my heavily regulated business where someone is always reaching in your pocket for some bullshit fee....Well, I decided to stay in the country, but relocate to a different area in which I could remove myself and my family from the "system", to as great an extent as possible.

I'm now about 4 weeks away from making the move, I bought mountain land in the Southeast US, land that has rich river bottom for farming, has lots of hardwood timber, has freshwater springs and running creeks.  A county where regulation is minimal, where the population density is low, and where the people have a conservative/libertarian mindset.

I can't wait to get the fuck outta here.

Tue, 11/30/2010 - 03:41 | 763892 molecool
molecool's picture

Yup - the continental U.S. is a big place. If you look around you're likely to find what you're looking for. I hope you find happiness and peace in your new place.

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