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Simon Black's Take On This Weekend's Shooting, And What It May Mean For America's Future
Simon Black, whose first person observations of the world outside America have made his website Sovereign Man truly an entertaining and informative read, and who has been anticipating the encroaching transition of America to a control state, shares his two cents on this weekend's tragic shooting in Florida. "With one of their own victimized, however, I'm concerned that politicians will close ranks, capitalize on the social mood to generate a renewed faith in government, and pass a host of reactionary policies... all after sanitizing their Twitter feeds for any reference to violence, of course. Perhaps some form of gun control is in the works... though with a Republican controlled Congress, I'd think new legislation targeting suspected 'Anti-American subversives' could be on the table, or something that gives sweeping new powers to government agents and police forces." And as always, Simon's suggestion is a logical one: "I would suggest that if your ideals and beliefs make you increasingly
isolated from your neighbors, maybe it's time to find new neighbors." We are sure this will anger Mike Krieger who advocates an attempt to regain control back from the kleptocratic corporatocracy (by peaceful means of course), although at some point one has to ask: when is enough, enough...
On the weekend’s shooting, from Simon Black
I abhor violence. Non-retaliatory violence is a desperate act of intolerant men who cannot sort out their differences reasonably and peacefully. Violence is the answer for those who lack the intellectual merit to win a battle of ideas and can only resort to more animalistic behavior to impress their point.
The greater the violence, the more unfortunate the outcome-- major acts of violence result in loss of life, collateral damage, destruction of property, changes in social mood, and more.
Every single day, crazed lunatics claim the lives of innocent people; sometimes it's a premeditated crime, sometimes it's a crime of passion, sometimes it's a complete accident, sometimes it's an act of terror, and sometimes people are just in the wrong place at the wrong time when a 500 pound bomb is dropped over Afghanistan.
Each instance represents a theft upon humanity.
A shooting took place this weekend in Arizona which was devastating, to say the least... but in my mind, no more or less devastating than any other murderous rampage, whether in the United States or anywhere in the world. Because a US Congresswoman was ostensibly the intended victim, however, it's captured worldwide attention.
Speaker of the House John Boehner summarized many politicians' reactions to Saturday's shooting when he said, "an attack on one who serves is an attack on all who serve. Acts and threats of violence against public officials have no place in our society."
I'm inclined to believe that acts and threats of violence against -all people- have no place in any free society. The life of a politician is not worth more than the life of the nine year old girl who was shot and later died at the hospital, or the 76-year old man who died on the scene as he was protecting his wife, or of any of the other victims.
I've seen mainstream media reports that portray the apparent shooter as an anti-government subversive whose favorite books include Mein Kampf and the Communist Manifesto. This makes absolutely no sense-- what kind of anti-government proponent counts Hitler, Marx, and Engels as his favorite authors?
Rather, it's more likely that the shooter was just another loony who owned a firearm and decided to use it. If the victim had been Gabrielle the bus driver instead of Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, it would have barely registered a few words at the bottom of the CNN news ticker.
With one of their own victimized, however, I'm concerned that politicians will close ranks, capitalize on the social mood to generate a renewed faith in government, and pass a host of reactionary policies... all after sanitizing their Twitter feeds for any reference to violence, of course.
Perhaps some form of gun control is in the works... though with a Republican controlled Congress, I'd think new legislation targeting suspected 'Anti-American subversives' could be on the table, or something that gives sweeping new powers to government agents and police forces.
In 1946, the 79th Congress of the United States passed public law 601 giving permanent standing to the House Committee on Un-American Activities. This committee was authorized significant powers to investigate 'subversive and un-American propaganda' and assist Congress in 'necessary remedial legislation.'
Ironically, in its efforts to ensure that America was nothing like the Soviet Union, the US government began turning the country into a fascist collective. Given what may come after the weekend's shooting, I fear we may be returning to a time when it is increasingly dangerous to be a free thinking individual anywhere in the West.
With Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano perched above WalMart shoppers encouraging Americans to spy on each other, I sense the boiling frog may soon be getting a few degrees warmer.
I would suggest that if your ideals and beliefs make you increasingly isolated from your neighbors, maybe it's time to find new neighbors.
Vibrant expat communities are starting to blossom all over the world, and as we routinely discuss, it's possible (and in many cases easier) to live a much freer life and earn a great living by applying your skills overseas.
There are plenty of great options out there... dozens of places where you could feel more alive, more at home, and more at ease; it simply starts with the willingness and courage to take action, start the research, and develop relationships with like-minded people.
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Here (in Texas), on the local level, the plan is to deputize everyone. Then, everyone is allowed to be armed - all in the name of protecting the State, and enforcing order. The local PD's and Sheriffs are not stupid, they know that they are more prepared to work with the armed populace than to oppose them.
the areas that will resist federal martial laws will have their power and food supplies shut off; and then foreign mercs will come in to go street by street
there are very few areas in the country that are going to put up any formidable resistance
HS has already profiled the entire populace, and they know the zip code areas where they will need to use the heavy hand
in most areas, with the currency collapsed and food stores empty, the sheeptards will be begging Daddy Warbucks for any assistance and will give their willing aid to the agents of control
Well, they can't come to my house. It's strictly dinner by invitation. So be nice or I won't cook. And don't shoot me or I won't cook either. And it's not microwave stuff, so cook it yourself if you can. I'll take the recipes to the grave.
Brings a new meaning to the old phrase, "Kiss me, I'm the cook."
You'll have to pry my cookware out of my cold, dead fingers, bastards!
I suggest doing it during the Super Bowl. Everybody comes out of the house or bar after the game and finds troops manning checkpoints on the main roads.
Of course, getting the troops to move during the Super Bowl will probably be the point where they figure out who's with the team and who isn't.
Certainly. We know, after all, that no government would ever violate its laws. There are no such examples of things like that. Since everyone here seems to hold onto that Second Amendment item as the epitomy of freedom, perhaps we should note how iron clad the "...shall not be infrined" portion of that particular amendment has faired, right?
GWB was right. Governments don't pay much attention to "goddamned sheets of paper." Why should they? If they can convince people that they're free, they can do anything they want--including taking away freedoms.
The Utah national guard refused the order of gun confiscation during Katrina. Second most guys in the military are gunowners themselves in their civilian lives. Gunconfiscation is impossible to do. Remeber that North Hollywood shootout back in the 90s? It was two guys armed with body armor,assault rifles,thousands of rounds of ammountion,drum magazines. Now imagine that 5% of the total gun population does that. There will be alot of dead police officers. Gun confiscation and martial law is impossible to do.
For arguments sake, say the Government has the resources to do 10,000 of those raids every day, how do you think the tenth day would go?
"how do you think the tenth day would go?"
They would find that their resources would be somewhat diminished?
Bingo
I disagree with the prediction that more "gun control" is in the offing. Both Republican and Democrat members of Congress remember well that the bans instituted in 1994 contributed, in no small part, to the Democrat loss of Congress later that year ( Speaker Tom Foley lost not only his Speakership, but his WA seat itself, due to his support for these gun control measures). No. The end-result of this tragedy -- meaning, its inevitable, deplorable political exploitation -- will be even more beneficial to Democrats than gun control: the deconstruction/demonization of Palin, her conservative cadre and the "Tea Party" movement could become dreams realized.
How so?? it was a liberal pot head that pulled the trigger.... same as most political assassinations... now that people are seeing how the dhims conspired to try to blame the Tea Party - without knowing any facts - it will ultimately only strengthen the Tea Party as the home of reasonable people....
Judge, "blame...without knowing any facts" is the stock and trade of the mainstream media and various scoundrel politicians the nation-over. It would appear, observing media and some politicians' responses to this senseless act, that the "demonization" scenario so presented is already unfolding.
it was a liberal pot head that pulled the trigger...
Um, no. It was an 'anti-government' kook. He wasn't a 'conservative' either. The man was mentally disturbed and your attempt to score political points is despicable.
Nothing will happen... most of the repubs newly elected are very anti-gov't control...
There'll be a lot of storm and thunder and in a few weeks it'll pass.
Carolyn McCarthy readies gun control bill
One of the fiercest gun-control advocates in Congress, Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-N.Y.), pounced on the shooting massacre in Tucson Sunday, promising to introduce legislation as soon as Monday.
McCarthy ran for Congress after her husband was gunned down and her son seriously injured in a shooting in 1993 on a Long Island commuter train.
“My staff is working on looking at the different legislation fixes that we might be able to do and we might be able to introduce as early as tomorrow,” McCarthy told POLITICO in a Sunday afternoon phone interview.
Gun control activists cried it was time to reform weapons laws in the United States, almost immediately after a gunman killed six and injured 14 more, including Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, in Arizona on Saturday
Continued.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47338.html
The idiots are taking advantage of this horrible massacre to crucify the firts and second amendment. This will fail but ti shows how stupid these politicans to use a crisis(9/11,OKC bombing,Katrina,Tuscon massacre) to expand the power of the Federal governemnt to take away or our bill of rights.
+1
Bears repeating! Unfortunately, it may/may not fail, but it will add strength to the argument as the sheeple look to big brother for protection. Gee, where have I read that before?
This sort of mob reaction crap is the supposed reason for the senate...which is supposed to be a deliberative body.But the absolutely criminal patriot act got passed ultra-quick, didn't it?
What a nightmare.So many horrible responses to this tragedy...
But so few voices crying for deliverance from the rampant injustices which will make such episodes more common.How many bankers have been convicted?How many Americans are on food stamps?
Until some semblance of Justice prevails in America, an America that should treat the wealthy before the law the the same as the poor, these events will only increase in frequency and severity.
And since the only reactions so far are evil insofar as they are for using the event to gain some sort of advantage(and thus defecate on the victims memory) It is easy to predict it will only get worse.
The shit heads in DC should get their act together....and go after the real and present dangers to this country...like the FED, The banks, the military industrial/spy complex, etc.
Instead of talking about high capacity magazines or guns.Would the attempted murder been more palatable if a hammer or axe was used?I doubt it.
Dem planning bill that would outlaw threatening lawmakers
By Peter Schroeder - 01/09/11 04:08 PM ET
Rep. Robert Brady (D-Pa.) reportedly plans to introduce legislation that would make it a federal crime to use language or symbols that could be perceived as threatening or inciting violence against a federal official or member of Congress.
Brady told CNN that he wants federal lawmakers and officials to have the same protections against threat currently provided to the president. His call comes one day after Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) was shot, along with 19 other people, at a public event in Tucson. A suspect is currently in custody.
"The president is a federal official," Brady told CNN in a telephone interview. "You can't do it to him; you should not be able to do it to a congressman, senator or federal judge."
Among the six people killed was Federal Judge John Roll.
While it is unknown at this time whether the shooter was politically motivated, that has not prevented a vigorous debate about whether heated political rhetoric seen during the healthcare reform debate and during the 2010 campaign is inciting violence.
Continued.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...ning-lawmakers
These idiots are really trying to piss us off!
this shooting wasn't a big deal but it will be a big deal to Congress.
Also, Simon black is a pussy...lots of things get solved with violence; in fact, it appears to be the only thing to finally settle anything these days.
++ thats how they did it when men were men.
...when they didn’t change they're underpants and couldn't read or write.
The irony of that statement coming from "Scratch-n-sniff" wasn't missed.
we all need a scratch, a sniff is optional.
You would have to be quite flexible to sniff yourself and if that's a pic of you.. Your flexible days are long past, mental and physical.
++ That's what Heinlein tells us in Starship Troopers.
Bugs, bitchez!!!
as many amercantiles manage to lift their snouts from the slop in the trough of an insatiable commercial feeding frenzy only long enough to rush about blindly with hysterical, hyperbolic disavowals of violence and attempt the usual disingenuous circumambulations around an obvious and pathological professed apathy and indifference to any human suffering save their own, ZH readers once again have the dubious privilege of witnessing the smug, sniffing contempt of this penultimate snob who of course reduces the complex ramifications of this latest blood sport to his simplistic pet meme-the utopian existence which awaits anyone with the wherewithal to abandon the shores of the late great american nightmare and follow this quintessential narcissist and his coterie of american ex-pats to the land of milk and honey where everyone lives happily ever after. aside from the innate impracticability and superficiality of such an inbred suggestion for mostly everyone, his elitist cant exudes the very kind of hauteur that has greatly contributed to our present malaise. once again i say, a plague on this hypocrite and all of his ilk.
nice!
"I abhor violence. Non-retaliatory violence is a desperate act of intolerant men who cannot sort out their differences reasonably and peacefully. Violence is the answer for those who lack the intellectual merit to win a battle of ideas and can only resort to more animalistic behavior to impress their point."
yeah that non-violent, civil disobediance, protesting injustice and inequity within america thing has worked out so well that the author chose expatiration .... just sayin...
and..."Rather, it's more likely that the shooter was just another loony who owned a firearm and decided to use it."
just how mainstream media portrayed Joe Stack...remember him????
from the NY Times...
"He added that one topic that Mr. Loughner seemed to be obsessed with was the American dollar.“He had talked about not liking the currency,” Mr. Cates said. “And he wished that the U.S. would change to a different currency because our currency is worthless.”
Some people who study right-wing militia groups and those who align themselves with the so-called Patriot movement said Mr. Loughner’s comments on subjects like the American currency and the Constitution, which he posted online in various video clips, were strikingly similar in language and tone to the voices of the Internet’s more paranoid, extremist corners."
my condolences to the people killed and wounded, but he aint the only "lunatic" who's got beef with the Criminal Reserve, the politicians they own, and the financial rape of the citizens being perpetraited by the bankers......
Why did this kid plan and carry out this shooting, targeting Giffords and unloading on bystanders?
Because he was just that pissed off.
People always need to find meaning in these things. Usually when something bad happens, people spout such empty platitudes as, 'Well, everything happens for a reason.'.
I say that a lot of times things just happen and there is no deeper meaning. Somebody just lost it and went out and did violence. People die violently at the hands of others all the time and nothing is done about it. That just happens. No deeper meaning.
I puke in my mouth, seeing that this girl who was born on 9/11 was killed in this shooting, not because she was killed, but what it might mean, or be made to mean. The girl's death is tragic, but tragic like any other, and now the media and the state have themselves a martyr. That's when they are most dangerous. Look at all the shit they put through after 9/11, taking advantage of people's shock.
Seems like this kid who did it was looking for deeper meaning too. He found it, with tragic consequences. Let's hope the search for deeper meaning doesn't lead America down darker paths still.
Whatever the motive was, she was the intended target possibly his closest one to strike out against. Everyone else was only to make it "appear" as a crazy mindless bloodbath.
Pelosi has a M.O. in taking her out, and so does Palin. (Just sayin) His M.O is obvious
Maybe she was taken out just like Wheeler was, was she about to dump some controversial info? Until he blabs it is all pure speculaton.
That homeless voice-over guy barely got 15 minutes.
I'd bet he's pissed right about now. He's been moved from page one to somewhere near the don't-pay-for-furniture-for-90-days ads.
Hallelujah, pretty hard to tear down that reality. +1
“Violence is the answer for those who lack the intellectual merit to win a battle of ideas and can only resort to more animalistic behavior to impress their point.”
Intellectual merit has little effect on the hordes of ignorant people that keep the oligarchy in power. They are only interested in what they can get for free and believe every fallacy that is presented to them. Reality presents three choices. You can accept the yoke of slavery, run (Mr. Black’s preferred solution), or stand and fight. I agree that the Arizona shooter is a total nut bar and that the shooting was a meaningless act. No doubt the government will retaliate against law abiding people for this crime which will be a crime in it’s self. When the true patriots get tired of having their property and liberty stolen there will be well thought out attacks against the people who are leading this tyranny. They will not commit violence because they lack intellect; they will fight because they can’t stomach the other options.
So according to your logic, tyranny is better than Democracy because most voters are simply ignorant? Yesterday on 60 minutes, Gov. Rendell of Pennsylvania said that casinos are great because people only lose money that they would spend anyway on lottery, sport betting or gambling, and if don't see it that way you are dumb.
We don’t live in a democracy we live in a republic governed by the rule of law. Democracy is when two wolves and a sheep decide what to eat for dinner. Tyranny is when the sheep becomes lunch. Justice is when the sheep pulls a gun and kills the wolves. When government steals the wealth from one person and redistributes it to someone that didn’t earn it, it is tyranny, regardless of whether everyone voted to for it or not.
We used to have a Republic, but We the People were unable to keep it...
We need to reclaim it.
We still do. You don't like this new and improved bannana flavor?
Americans swapped liberty for 200 channels of brainwashing in HD.
----
This quote from Albert Einstein works on so many levels...
"Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds."
http://rescomp.stanford.edu/~cheshire/EinsteinQuotes.html
We already have no privacy and the Constitution has been effectively overwritten. We can instantly be labeled a "terrorist" by the DHS and the TSA goons can do a warrantless search of our bodies and our homes, businesses, vehicles. Or have all of you missed this fact? FinReg allows any bureaucrat to examine our financial records, at banks or via the IRS. Oh did you miss that too? How about every $600 transaction needing a 1099 with SS#?
I love the smell of dictatorial control and fascism in the morning.
Black is right on in many ways. If I were in my 30s, and had no family and a decent stake , I would go to Chile, Argentina or Uruguay, where free capitalism still exists and the Governments are laissez faire.
apber, I agree with you on all your points about what has happened in the USA, but why is that we think any government will be different? Maybe he is right in thinking other governments don't have the means to cary all this out...but when the SHTF it will not just be here in the USA. I can picture a small group of expats living in a community in Latin America.. TSHTF... local banditos think hey them gringos have money and food let's hit them up. That's just one scenario there are others... One time when I was in Honduras Central America, TSHTF there all because the US DEA came in and captured a guy named MATA a drug lord, the only problem is (this was around 1987-88) The USA did not have an extradition pact with Honduras, the locals went nuts in Tegucigalpa because Mata was smart a robinhood he helped out the poor and students with his money.
Riots in the streets and anybody that looked like a gringo was attacked along with our consulate and embassy..
So the grass is not always greenier on the otherside....be careful know the culture and language well and know the local law.
You might want to chat with FerFal or check out his blog before you run off to Argentina. Or run off your mouth.
Speaker of the House John Boehner summarized many politicians' reactions to Saturday's shooting when he said, "an attack on one who serves is an attack on all who serve. Acts and threats of violence against public officials have no place in our society."
What a hypocrite...where is the moment of silence for each an every soldier that dies..Serving...that they send into harms way...the politicians have the audacity to feel they are above those they put in harms way...if/when the politicians ever have an equal respect for those in uniform will I ever have respect or sorrow for what they bring upon themselves....if you denounce violence...denounce ALL violence...
True dat!!!!
While certain individuals like Giffords will continue to go out of their way to reach constituents, the body as a whole is not going to be any more responsive to public opinion. Giffords has a double edged immigration policy, rather than bring both sides together, it probably only infuriated both sides, who only see the points she was giving the other side. (guessing that immigration is the touchstone in this incident). the paradoxical nature of politics is that compromise satisfies no one, and the party which advocates compromise is steadily losing control. A third party is necessary, since the Democrats are the party of compromise, GOP is the conservative party, a progressive party would balance the equation, the Constitution creates a bicameral body, which is a problem.
"since the Democrats are the party of compromise"
that's pretty funny, right there.
You point to an irony that I also considered...she was shot in the act of trying to communicate with ordinary constituents. A very commendable effort is rewarded with violence.
Are you suggesting that her political views elicited the violence?
MSNBC has currently blamed it on:
1) The Tea Party
2) Gun Owners
3) Lack of government control of people with violent thoughts
4) Sarah Palin
Fox News blames it on illegal immigration.
I expect gun control laws to be offered up fairly soon. In 1994, there was the AWB but they didn't have one of "theirs" getting shot. These folks have to protect themselves (they are the elites after all) and they will vote in everything (see PATRIOT Act). I hope this lady survives, but I got the strange feeling she's just gonna run for president or VP in 2012.
Um WHAT THE FUCK?!
Speaker of the House John Boehner summarized many politicians' reactions to Saturday's shooting when he said, "an attack on one who serves is an attack on all who serve. Acts and threats of violence against public officials have no place in our society."
"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.
Thomas JeffersonThe people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is
wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts
they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,
it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...
And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not
warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure."
And one congressman is now suggesting that because of this incident they should be allowed to jump the queue at airports and avoid the TSA groping in the name of security!
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/136849-house-dem-calls-for-beefed-up-security-special-treatment-by-tsa
Probably a mind control experiment. Think MK Ultra and Greenbaum(ing)
30 murdered in Acapulco over the weekend. 16 were beheaded and one was hung over the freeway to MexDF. Smoke some dope America.
Now that Americans can see the choices laid before them: 1.) lunatic gun nuts killing 9-year old girls and elderly Democrats or 2.) social harmony that goes along with political and economic corporatocracy, they are going to overwhelmingly acquiesce to government's greater role in domestic security to preserve the status quo. The lunatic gunman killed any vestige of progressive movement for economic justice--let the elites control 100 of wealth.
Violence is inherent, common sense and morality are learned, and sanity is optional.
MiddleMeThis
"Violence is inherent, common sense and morality are learned, and sanity is optional."
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Charles_Bronson_%28prison...
Charles "Charlie" Bronson (born Michael Gordon Peterson, 6 December 1952) is a British criminal often referred to in the British press as the "most violent prisoner in Britain".[2]
Born in Aberystwyth, Wales, Peterson often found his way into fights before he began a bare-knuckle boxing career in the East End of London. His promoter was not happy with his name and suggested he change it to Charles Bronson.
In 1974 he was imprisoned for a robbery and sentenced to seven years. While in prison he began making a name for himself as a loose cannon, often fighting convicts and prison guards. These fights added years onto his sentence. Regarded as a problem prisoner, he was moved 120 times throughout Her Majesty's Prison Service and spent most of that time in solitary confinement. What was originally a seven year term stretched out to a fourteen year sentence that resulted in his first wife, Irene, with whom he had a son, leaving him. He was released on October 30, 1988 but only spent 69 days free before he was arrested again.
While in jail in 2001 he married his second wife, Fatema Saira Rehman, a Bangladeshi-born divorcée who inspired him to convert to Islam and take the name of Charles Ali Ahmed. This second marriage lasted four years before he got divorced and renounced Islam.
Bronson is one of the most high profile criminals in Britain, and has been the subject of books, interviews and studies in prison reform and treatment. He is the subject of the 2009 film Bronson, the story based loosely around significant events during his life. In addition Bronson has himself written many books about his experiences and famous prisoners he has met throughout his internment. A self-declared fitness fanatic who spent multiple years in solitary, Bronson dedicated a book to working out in small places.
Bronson was imprisoned for seven years in 1974, aged 22, for an armed robbery at a Post Office in Little Sutton, a suburb of Ellesmere Port, during which he stole £26.18.[7] His sentence was repeatedly extended for crimes committed within prison, which include wounding with intent, wounding, criminal damage, grievous bodily harm, false imprisonment, blackmail and threatening to kill.
Bronson has served all but four of his years in prison in solitary confinement due to a number of hostage situations, rooftop protests, and repeated attacks on prison staff and on other inmates. His dangerous behaviour has meant that he has spent time in over 120 different prisons, including all three maximum security hospitals: Broadmoor Hospital, Rampton Secure Hospital, and Ashworth Hospital.[8]
Bronson has spent a total of just four months and nine days out of custody since 1974. He was released on 30 October 1988 and spent 69 days as a free man before being arrested for robbery, and then released again on 9 November 1992, spending 53 days as a free man before being arrested again, this time for conspiracy to rob.[4]
In 1999 a special prison unit was set up for Bronson and two other violent prisoners from Woodhill, to reduce the risk they posed to staff and other prisoners.[9]
In 2000, Bronson received a discretionary life sentence with a three year tariff for a hostage-taking incident. His appeal against this sentence was denied in 2004.[10]
Bronson remained a "Category A" prisoner when he was moved to Wakefield High-Security Prison.[11] He was due for a parole hearing in September 2008, but this was postponed when his lawyer objected to a one-hour parole interview, requesting a full day to deal with Bronson's case.[12] The parole hearing took place on 11 March 2009 and parole was refused shortly afterwards.[13] The Parole Board said that Mr Bronson had not proved he was a reformed character.[14]
On 12 November 2010, Bronson was involved in another incident in Wakefield prison’s F Wing, when he stripped naked, covered himself in butter and attacked six guards. Covering himself with butter apparently made him harder to control. Another six warders were brought in and finally restrained him. [15]
The incident followed another attack on warders the previous week during which he injured four attempting to take him back to solitary confinement. [16]
Prison sources said the attack was Bronson's “protest over an appeal rejection” and fears that he may now spend the rest of his life in prison. [17]
[edit] Hostage incidentsBelmarsh Prison, where Bronson took two Iraqi hijackers hostage
Bronson has been involved in over a dozen hostage incidents, some of which are described below:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-world/2010/11/15/naked-charles-bronso...
Naked Charles Bronson covered himself in butter in latest jail rageCrackpot Charles Bronson covered himself in butter while naked and took on 12 prison warders in his latest jail rage.
The 57-year-old flipped after growing more and more furious over his latest failed bid to be freed.
He took on six warders, then another six in a specialist restraint team who rushed to help before finally being dragged back to solitary.
At least four officers were injured in the rampage on the notorious F-wing at Wakefield jail, West Yorks.
An insider said: "He was naked and covered himself in butter so staff trying to restrain him could not take him down. He assaulted four before they sent in six members of the control and restraint team to get him.
"They finally managed to control him and he was taken back into solitary confinement.
"Charlie has not been in the news for a while and his failed appeal last year hit him hard. He was moved to Long Lartin and thought he was going to get out.
"at some point one has to ask: when is enough, enough..." -- wow. Your implication is clear -- at some point, peaceful means aren't "enough".
I have heard enough. This is my last post on ZH. For everyone at ZH who helped me with questions, thank you.
Your comment reminds me of a British comment made in India during World War II.
... While hundreds of millions here are praying for peace, a few thousand are attending to the tasks at hand...
I do not mean to be rude, but, how do you think you came to be "here"? Every last one of us is the beneficiary of violence. If you believe in evolution you are naturally the result of great violence. Your forebears killed and killed willingly, gladly for you to be here. They killed not only to feed your predecessors but also to keep your predecessors free from slavery or other depredations.
Violence is as much a part of your heritage as is kindness, love and self sacrifice. Violence is necessary. If violence in defense of liberty troubles you then welcome your chains and may they rest lightly upon you and your heirs.
Hmmm....
The general consensus is that the US 'in shock' and that this is a 'national tragedy' regarding the shootings of 18 people, including one Congress Critter. So where is the shock and outrage when your own government murders, through failed foreign police or lack thereof, oh, pretty much, many innocent people, including children, on a DAILY BASIS?
US Drone Strike Kills at Least Six in North Waziristan (Jan. 7, 2011)The attack was just the latest of several attacks in the first week of the new year, killing a large number of people, none of whom have been identified. Though the government terms everyone killed a “suspect” at the time, studies have shown that the majority of them turn out to be innocent civilians.
http://news.antiwar.com/2011/01/07/us-drone-strike-kills-at-least-six-in...
Collateral Damage: The Equations (Jan. 8, 2011)
In the case of The Obama Administration, the acceptable "collateral damage" kill number has, apparently, been increased to 50 innocent civilians.
http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2011/01/08/collateral-damage-the-equations/
Drone Reporting (Jan. 7, 2011)
Some of us are chilled by the advent of drone warfare - yet one more technical advance in the depersonalization of killing - but as I think about the sort of reporting that evinces no curiosity about such warfare, that simply and bloodlessly disseminates its results, I realize that "drone reporting" has been going on for a long time.
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The rickety foundation of our military strategy is part of the larger context of the news of 19 dead suspected insurgents. So is the utter meaninglessness of the term "suspected insurgents," which, considering that claims of civilian deaths are never investigated, is just language applied retroactively to whomever we happen to kill (nearly 1,000 Pakistani villagers in 2010).
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/01/07-2
Report: CIA Drones Killed Over 2,000, Mostly Civilians in Pakistan Since 2006 (Jan. 2, 2011)A new report from the Conflict Monitoring Centre (CMC) has reported that 2,043 Pakistanis have been slain in CIA drone strikes in the past 5 years, with the vast majority of them innocent civilians.
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And while 2,043 is a lot of people to kill in the past five years, over 75% of them were actually killed in the past two years since President Obama took office. 2009 saw over 700 people killed in the CIA drone strikes, and the report shows 929 more killed in 2010.
http://news.antiwar.com/2011/01/02/report-cia-drones-killed-over-2000-mo...
That is, at best, disingenuous.
"Non-retaliatory violence" - what, exactly constitutes non-retaliatory violence? What constitutes violence? I'd say that what the financial and political class have done to this country is "violent". Rape is generally considered a violent act.
If the financial and political class do not fear prosecution from the law, then what to they have to fear? Loss of wealth, loss of power (or access to it) and mortality.
Desperation and powerlessness in the face of intolerent men and woman professing to be our elected representatives, or acting under color of authority or regulated franchise has always resulted in violence. And usually with devastating collateral damages.
Disingenuous indeed.
Sometimes tolerant and reasonable people cannot sort out their differences peacefully, either. Shit happens, and not understanding that it happens makes it a lot more likely that you're the one who gets covered in shit.
Unless you're a king...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R91L7LhH-wg
...what, exactly constitutes non-retaliatory violence?
Foul language(?).
Is that George Carlin's 7-words-you-can't-say-on-radio kind of foul language, or language like entitlements, wealth redistribution, or my favoirte f-word - fair.
The hypocrisy is blatant here. The state continues to murder and kill millions abroad. It promotes violence as a method for resolving conflicts. The media (TV, movies etc) promote it as a means of conflict resolution. What happens when you mix the ingredient for a violent society together is that you get a violent society. Simon makes a good point that offends some people here: The life of this congresswoman is no more valuable than the lives of any other human being. If you want to stop violence then you have to lead by example. Is the state willing to do that? I didn't think so.................so it goes
+1
+11111
I live in Arizona and unless you saw the incredible-and terrifying- commercials this last election you cannot understand the atmosphere here. These were the result of Citizens United, all these images and words that were simply over the top on political opposition to Gabby. We do not even get to know who funds these multi million dollar television advertisements.
This kid was not sane enough to attend college. The local community college damanded a psychological evaluation before letting him back to class. Dont you think a person who is not sane enough to attend school should be prevented from buying a gun?
And for gods sake, bring back the good old gun laws that would have reduced the number of bullets he fired into the crowd. For those who say other people could have shot him, the man who tackled him was carrying! Arizona has a free for all, anyone can carry a concealed weapon anywhere, anytime they want. And we have the Tucson gun shop n' swap that is arming the Mexican Drug Cartel.
After reading this thread, many posters sound JUST LIKE this guy. I hope you nuts stay out of Arizona. We have enough problems without more violent anti government rhetoric. If you dont like the government, get involved in a campaign or move.
What "good old gun laws that would have reduced the number of bullets he fired into the crowd"?
The magazines he used - the specific model, and the type in general - have never been illegal in AZ. In any case, he'd have fired more projectiles with a common hunting shotgun, and he'd have killed a hell of a lot more with a bomb you can make yourself in a day with 400 year old technology. We're lucky that most of our domestic mass murderers are incompetent.
The main reason he got off so many rounds is because people stood there with their limp dicks in their hands, and then most of those who weren't shot or still frozen decided to play dead. Carrying a weapon does you no good if you're not paying attention and/or not prepared to use it. I say that meaning no disrespect to the heroes, armed and not, who stepped up and did something, but the simple fact of the matter is that unless he had some bizarre weapon modifications, it takes a long damned time to get off that many shots with a pistol. Go take something with a 5-6 lb trigger pull and yank on it as hard as you can, 90 times in a row with 2 reloads thrown in the middle. It takes quite a long time and it's hard work.
Gun control at this point is rather meaningless - they can pass whatever they like, but there are just too many in circulation after the post Sept '04 buying spree for bans on new weapons to work, and too many people who will simply scoff at an order to turn them in. Even the 94-04 AWB was essentially meaningless because it targeted firearms based on looks and curb-feeler crap, not function.
The guy who tackled the shooter was carrying. This proves the right wing opinion that people should carry at all times just in case of an instance like this is a fallacy, and you do not like that, for sure. The tackler made the right choice, if he had opened fire on the gunman many more bystanders could have been shot.
I cannot believe a kid like this with his obvious problems-calls from the college that he get a psych evaluation, trouble with the law- could not be put on a list that would make it 'harder' for him to get his hands on a good gun. Crazy people should not have easy access to guns like this.
Gun laws don't stop criminals from obtaining guns. Banned weaponry included.
Here in Canada are somewhat strict(er) firearm laws, yet murders and other criminal activity involving guns are still an ongoing problem in our major metropolitan areas. If criminals want the guns, they'll obtain them. And they do.
And for gods sake, bring back the good old gun laws that would have reduced the number of bullets he fired into the crowd.
WTF?! So as long as fewer people were killed because the shooter had LESS bullets, that would have been ok?
Reading material: Canada Nat'l Firearms Assoc.
http://www.nfa.ca/
This guy was flagged for a psych examination in order to keep attending school. Of course there are guns on the black market, I just dont think a kid with serious mental problems from the middle class would have been able to be organized enough to run that gauntlet. Walking into a gun shop is easy, anyone can do that, even a crazy person.
That definitely speaks volumes about the 'screening process', or lack thereof.
So you would rather have the police,military,federal agencies being the only ones with guns. And those guns the drug cartels have are not from gun shops dumbass. Most of the weapons the drug cartels have are automatic assault rifles(illegal),grenade launchers(illegal), rocket propell grenades(illegal),armor piercing bullets(illegal),ieds(illegal),mines(illegal). And armed citizenry stands the way of a police state,sorry I do not trust the police,military,federal agents being the only ones owning guns. Also gangs,organized crime buy guns illegally from the black market.
Did I say that? Thats what I do not like about you gun nuts. You think any restriction on guns (Crazy people should have a hell of a hard time getting a gun) as a statement that ALL guns should be banned!
This is exactly what I mentioned the government might do on the day of the shooting. For some reason I got junked for suggesting it.
here is the DailyKos cache the comments are interesting
http://bit.ly/g20jzD
this is convoluted. the poster was upset that Giffords voted against Pelosi to keep her role as minority speaker, although he knew Giffords is an acknowledged blue dog Democrat. To say that makes Pelosi left of center in the party, is to really miss the point. Giffords is in a conservative district, and won barely. To take umbrage with the former speaker was probably politically expedient, (which means her constituents were okay with it).
The poster had done a lot of fund raising for GG, and being gay, divorced, unemployed, and having attempted suicide, his political needs are more pragmatic than ideological. Pelosi was exceedingly ineffective, but to say she is left of the center, consider she appointed a Blue(r) Dog Rep from Texas to replace Jane Harmon, her neighbor, another Blue Dog, to the Intelligence Comm, a plum role. I saw Pelosi almost booed off the stage in SF, her district, by a fairly liberal group of her constituents.
That statement she is dead to me, is the drama queen coming out in this guy. He donated a lot of his own personal money, and is looking for something politicians just can't deliver, individualized solutions. The irony of all this is that Gay Marriage was a Green Party issue, in 2006 I believe, when the mayors seat was open, and the GP advocated gay marriage, the Dem's candidate, Newsom, had to change positions, and the DNC poured a ton of money into this campaign, and he won. Lesson out of all this, if you think the Democrats care about you because you belong to a fringe or minority group which is in some way discriminated against, they are not. They only care about finding enough votes to get elected.
Finally Giffords took a stand against Pelosi, for practical and possibly ideological reasons, and for that we should commend her. She took an unpopular position, as one comment notes, she will probably catch some political backlash for it. Did the shooter share this same sense of betrayal? Is this kind of hairsplitting political inquisition enough to send a guy over? I really doubt it, as the poster is venting more than anything. Clearly he had real (tangible) reasons to go viral. interesting
this guy was a most likely a controlled hitter
as far as what this loser was thinking, who cares? I saw a report that said he had served in Afghanistan- the MSM and disinfo agents will put out tons of bullshit, and you can believe none of it
watch the bills roll out in Congresss if you want the real story
Great link from Nathan's Economic Edge to a Naomi Wolf presentation on "The End Of America".
http://economicedge.blogspot.com/2011/01/naomi-wolf-end-of-america-lette...
DavidC
"Rather, it's more likely that the shooter was just another loony "
horse crap! this was another mk-ultra agent who was doing the bidding of the bush crime syndicate...the same way john hinkley was used, the same way john lennon's murderer was used, and the same way sirhan sirhan was used.
and yes, just like hitler did, the depots are fomenting fear and loathing to justify a communist state where everyone is nothing but a debt slave, corporate slave, and consumer slave.
wachovia bank locked up my debit card because i made an internet purchase overseas. the fucktarded agent told me it was because the federal government mandated the fraud system which locks up my card more often than windows 3.1 ever did to my computer.
fuck the fascists...the republican reign of terror is about to begin. and the liar from kenya with indonesian citizenship will be applauding from the sidelines..
Look, mind control stuff might not be outside the realm of possibility, but I'd like to see even a shred of evidence that a Manchurian Candidate is possible. I think it is possible to find a marginal personality and kick him over the edge, but you probably can't control who he goes apeshit on. Or maybe you can.
do not use debit cards for anything except cash withdrawls at your bank; if your retired and have the time cut up the debit card and get your cash from a teller
having your bank account No out in cyber space is not good
Politician's code for "You can't please everyone."
Rule of Democracy:
It is probably unwise to assume pleasing a majority will protect you when you're confronted by the just the one you cannot please.
Rule of Fascism:
It is definitely unwise to assume the few whom you please will protect you when you're confronted by the displeased majority.
The thing I noticed immediately was the thrust on the part of the media to use this incident (and the shooter's incoherent ramblings) to brand several different works by Orwell as "dangerous" and "antisocial".
redacted versions coming soon from Ampleforth Publishing
Big Brother becomes Benevolent Sibling, Goldstein becomes Palin and Brotherhood becomes Tea Party
In the end, after all is said and done, man is nothing more or less than an animal, with ear hair
We aren't that far removed from our caves.
Lower your expectations significantly if you want to survive in a country as widely diverse as ours is.
This is not the first and it will not be the last. And there will always be collateral damage in these shootings, bombings, and other assassination attempts. One hopes though that if only the assassins could sacrifice themselves for more yield by taking out the real perpetrators on Wall Street and D.C.
"There are plenty of great options out there...dozens of places where you could feel more alive, more at home, and more at ease; it simply starts with the willingness and courage to take action, start the research, and develop relationships with like-minded people."
Yes, but so what? How many Americans -- how many readers of this site -- have the wherewithal (and by that I don't just mean money) to leave? If you're one of the few who do, then you'd be stupid not to at least be making plans, if only as an indefinite "vacation." But for the vast majority who have no alternative but to stay, it is worthwhile remembering that not a single shot (of any relevance) was fired amid the collapse of the former Soviet. All it took was the realization by enough people that the game was over, and then poof!, it was.
And what's the game here? Simple. Gabrielle Giffords and her ilk must be seen for what they are -- The People of the Lie -- which means that as soon as we stop lying to ourselves about who these people are, that will be that:
Select ratingCancel ratingPoorOkayGoodGreatAwesomeWhen guns are outlawed only mexican drug cartel members will have them
Wait, wait, wait! You mean that the Mexican Drug Cartel members have firearms? Isn't it essentially illegal for any private citizen to posses a firearm in the free state of Mexico? Only soldiers and police may posses guns!
I wonder if the drug cartel members have been deputized and work under the direction of some government official? That would explain why they have guns, and the common folk may not.
Double post. Sorry. The site is being really slow and buggy for me today. Could it be that danged government spying on what I write?
Government oppression of the people will continue until the violence stops.
Question. We have a government that has been totally subverted by the money masters. Our (so called) representatives DO NOT represent us. We have a Fed that steals our productive output. Corporations that do not care one bit about their employees. We are killing people all over the world because of this "war on terror" which is TOTALLY based on lies. Our educational system is a joke. Our manufacturing is gone. The moral foundation of this country has been destroyed.
Does anybody actually think all this just "worked out" this way? Maybe this was all planned and executed (excuse the word) perfectly.
What method does everyone choose to stop all this and set things right?
Yup, and that right there is why I don't give two shits if all of them eventually get shot. They truly deserve it for selling out the American people and we're fortunate that we have so many pyschopaths willing to do the work that respectable people should be doing.
Just a question:
When does a psychopath become a martyr?
Weird. Duke and Progress pen a deal today and a politically-connected Progress lobbyist dies in a burning car. An impromptu 'gang-war' going on?
Ashley Turton, Former Hill Staffer, Dies in Car Fire (Jan. 10, 2011)Ashley Turton, former chief of staff to Rep. Rosa DeLauro (D-Conn.) and wife of White House liaison to the House of Representatives Dan Turton, was found dead in her car Monday morning, according to a source.
Turton worked as a lobbyist for the Raleigh, N.C.-based utility giant Progress Energy.
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“This could be just a tragic freak accident,” Breul said. “And that’s why we’re crossing our t’s and dotting our i’s, because it is a little freaky, and we need to figure out why. But there is no indication now that there was any crime.”
Meahwhile....also today....
Duke, Progress Agree To $13.7 Billion Deal (January 10, 2011)
A deal between Duke Energy Corp. and Progress Energy Inc. could provide a big boost to both companies' nuclear-power ambitions.
Duke and Progress agreed to an all-stock merger Monday, valued at about $13.7 billion.
"...I am sure that you have proof that the mentally deranged individual who was responsible for this act of terrorism was a member of the "Far Right"?..."
Only that Mein Kampf was his favorite book.
NAZI= National Socialists..
Fascism and Communism are only different by degree. Both are statist ideologies to the friggin max. There are two kinds of people--control freaks and individualists. The rest is degree only.
There is a gun training class add on the page lol... not from cookies either...
I am soooo ashamed!
In order to refresh this page, I hat to click on the "reload" button (FireFox).
I feel so dirty.
I wonder how long it will take for some enterprising journalist to take a look at the sad state of affairs in AZs mental health programs and its budget. Seems to me this is more about an indictment of the state of mental health care in AZ, not gun laws.
Or for that matter, mental health care in general.
My wife is a mental health professional (therapist). She has seen a marked change in her clients... most all of them are jobless, without money, and without hope. They have considerable familial constraints and have not the skills to adequately cope, budget, or strategize, presuming those are even possible. Essentially, they are often in crisis and are literally on the brink of breaking every day. Often times, they are over medicated as well... she's had to discharge at least one client recently for having multiple prescriptions of zanex/valium. The person couldn't even properly function for purposes of therapy... they were too drugged.
If the government creates the atmosphere where everyone is on the brink of insanity, I would think it should cast no stones on the consequences from such an atmosphere. Reminds me of how people attribute life events to god... if a family member falls ill, then they pray to god to save the family member and see them through recovery... however, they fail to curse god for making the family member sick in the first place. Consistency is the most difficult aspect of the human condition.
United States of Catch-22
be he can deploy for his tour in Afghanistan, can't he? We just sent 1400 more.
Or both. How is it that this guy was deemed too insane to attend Pima Community College, but was sane enough to walk into a gun shop and legally buy a semi automatic?
And then conceal carry that weapon wherever he wanted to.
He probably didn't yell and scream in the gun shop.
Because thus far, thankfully, there is not a known and functioning governmental central repository of medical information sufficient enough to mirror criminal background checks or all information related to medical history is not available, only adjudications.
HR 2640 sought to change some of these issues in the wake of the VT shootings. But, in large part, it was (thankfully) gutted by the NRA. To my knowledge, although there is not a breadth of case law on the issue, it appears the intent of the law was to require a court (or similar) determination of mental incompetance. In this sense, until a court has come in and said the guy is crazy, he's free to buy a gun. This is perfectly logical given the taking of a constitutional right is involved. Once an adjudication has been made, then that information is forwarded to the central registry. Further, you may rehabilitate yourself and regain your gun rights...
Here is a form 4473 that you use when you purchase a gun from a dealer. Look carefully at the questions the buyer is asked. Should answer most of your questions. http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473.pdf
Simon,
Thanks for the article, I expect nothing from this FROM the GOP.
They are barely in there as it is.
The Dems by screaming more Gun control, are continually digging their own graves.Americans the vast majority are NOT for gun control.
Let them continue to beat the gong.......hitting oneself in the head, to my knowledge never solved anythng except caused pain, and damage.