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A Simple Experiment to Disprove the Alleged Gold/Silver Price Suppression Schemes
As long as man has lived, man has always been keen to commit
grand acts of deception on his fellow man. Joseph Goebbels, Hitler's Propaganda
Minister said, "The bigger the lie, the more it will be believed."
The theory of global warming caused by carbon emissions is likely to be another
one of these great lies. Over the past several years, as the global monetary
crisis has unfolded, men that have repeatedly been caught in a web of their own
lies, deceit, and gross misrepresentations include the most prominent of all
financial leaders - Alan Greenspan, Tim Geithner, Ben Bernanke, Robert Rubin,
Sandy Weill, Lloyd Blankfein, Henry Paulson et al. But the greatest big lie of all, in my opinion, is our global
monetary system and the suppression of gold and silver prices that aid and abet
this lie.
The beauty of the argument between the believers and non-believers
regarding the price suppression of gold and silver is that non-believers can
discredit those they view as gold/silver conspiracy buffs and put a rest to
this argument with a simple little experiment that will require very little
time or effort. But more on that in just a little bit.
Over the years, my interest in this topic has led me to
conduct my own research regarding this matter, a very small portion of which
has been outlined below.
IMF Gold
Sales v. the Alchemy of Gold Futures – What’s the Impact on Gold Prices?
Feb 18, 2010
Gold and Economic Freedom, Reinterpreted for the 21st
Century, May 8, 2009
Bankers and Economists Say Gold is a Bubble. Here’s Why You
Should Ignore Them, Dec 28, 2009
The GLD and
SLV: Legitimate Investment Vehicles or Not? July 15, 2009
Is Gold Expensive at $791 an Ounce? Why Gold Will Continue
to Soar Much Higher., November 2, 2007
Gold’s
Speculative Stigma is Unwarranted, Sept. 11, 2006
The lies about gold and silver bandied about by bankers and
gladly disseminated by the mass media have persisted for years. Even when gold
was trading at $500, $600, $700 and $800 an ounce over the past several years, at
each one of these junctures, the mass media disseminated numerous stories that
quoted “metals experts” from various global financial institutions about gold
being a bubble just waiting to pop. And of course, the next time gold steeply
corrects, and it will, the same “metals experts” will be quoted by the mass
media again that proclaim the “end of the gold bull” without a peep of the
behind-the-scenes actions taken by the big bullion banks in the gold/silver
futures markets in London and New York to manufacture these steep declines.
Of course, this discussion would be incomplete and near irreverent without a
mention of the tireless efforts of GATA’s Chris Powell and Adrian Douglass to
uncover the most damning available evidence of government-directed bullion bank
price suppression schemes. GATA, of course, is the OG of
the gold/silver price suppression scheme theories, having sorted through
mountains of documents to find evidence of a banking cartel that artificially
suppresses gold/silver prices in order to convince the world to continue
subjecting itself to a fraudulent fiat currency monetary system that is led by
the US dollar:
GATA Chairman Murphy rebuts defense of gold lending, April
7, 2010
If everything's manipulated, does that make it OK? April 1,
2010
A London trader walks the CFTC through a silver manipulation
in advance, March 25, 2010
Can't manipulate Treasuries market? But that's the point of
rigging gold! March 25, 2010
Adrian Douglas: More Fed minutes document gold market
manipulation, March 14, 2010
Gold is decade's best-performing investment
Most recently, Zero Hedge chimed in with a criticism of CPM
Group Managing Director Jeffrey Christian’s take of why the gold futures
markets exist:
Jeffrey Christian Has A Second Chance To Disprove The Gold
Ponzi Scheme, Fails, April 10, 2010
Given that the number of non-believers far outnumber the
number of believers regarding gold and silver price suppression schemes despite
the growing-by-the-minute mountain of evidence, here is my challenge to the
non-believers, many of whom own considerable dollar/euro/yen amounts of unallocated
(and allocated, for what that’s worth) paper gold and silver certificates and
gold and silver paper ETFs. Over the years, as I educated myself further
regarding certain topics, my views regarding some widely-accepted theories have
radically changed, including my views regarding the carbon-emission based
theory of global warming (I have long stopped believing this particular theory).
So here is a simple experiment that I challenge all
non-believers to engage in that will not hurt you in the tiniest of manners yet
provide a massive benefit if your current beliefs are proven to be wrong.
If you currently own any of the physical gold or silver
paper ETFs, if you are long in gold/silver futures contracts, and if you own
paper gold/silver certificates, sell just a small portion of these holdings
(10% or so) and replace them with physical delivery of that gold and silver
instead. For this experiment to
work, you must encourage every single person you know that is in this same
situation (holding a derivative gold/silver product or paper certificate as a
proxy for physical gold/silver) to also convert a tiny 10% of these holdings
into physical gold and silver. If this simple experiment can spread across the
globe, we will discover if those of us that endorse a gold/silver price
suppression scheme are right or if those of you that endorse holding paper ETFs
like the GLD and SLV as a sound financial practice are right.
For example, if the holders of all paper gold and silver followed
Greenlight Capital David Einhorn’s lead and converted just 10% of their paper
gold and silver into physical gold and silver (actually we’re not asking you to execute the same actions
as Einhorn as he converted 100% of his paper GLD holdings into physical gold
last year), and this caused the price of gold to increase significantly, then
this would prove that the gold futures market contributes absolutely nothing to
the free market price of gold in which supply and demand leads to price
discovery.
If the banking cartel has not set up a fractional reserve
system for gold and silver that they use solely to manipulate prices, and if
most paper gold and paper silver is 100% backed by physical gold and silver as
they claim (sans the futures markets), then the conversion of 10% of all paper
gold and silver into physical gold and silver should not cause any increased
demand in the physical supply of gold and silver that would send prices higher.
In fact, the conversion of 50% of all paper gold and paper silver into physical
gold and physical silver should have a negligible effect as well if indeed
bankers have set up an honest system for gold and silver in which supply and
demand currently set prices.
However, if this act causes an increase in gold
and silver prices, then one should question the very purpose of paper gold/silver
derivative products. If such a small act can create a huge disturbance in
gold/silver prices, and physical supply and demand for gold and silver are not
the market forces that set prices in today’s gold and silver markets, then what
is the very purpose of the gold/silver futures markets in London and New York? (for even though the futures markets allow producers to hedge against future fluctuations in the prices of the commodities they produce, the hedging action shouldn't be so skewed in one direction that it massively skews the price from the price a free market would determine for a sustained amount of time, aka years and years).
The more significant accompanying question then becomes this: If the prices set
in the gold/silver futures markets in London and New York are not determined by
physical supply and physical demand of gold and silver, then are the prices not
being set in these markets entirely fraudulent?
So take the Gold and Silver Challenge, non-believers. Take physical delivery of just 10% of your paper gold/silver derivative products and encourage everyone you know to do the same. Even if
you consider yourself the greatest skeptic of all regarding gold/silver price
suppression schemes, you have absolutely NOTHING TO LOSE and EVERYTHING TO
GAIN from participating in this simple experiment. And if it just
happens that you discover that your faith in gold/silver paper ETFs and
derivative products was wrong, well, you may just make this discovery in time
to exchange these paper products for physical gold and silver before it is too
late.
»
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Do not make the mistake of getting worked up about the argument of such and such is 45% (or something like that) of annual world gold prduction.
Gold is completely unlike any other commodity in that the supply is at least thirty years worth of annual production. That is what gives it stability as money. That cannot be said for any other commodity metal or foodstuff that might have at most a two year supply where production amounts are a very large portion of total supply.
Again, very true. Such emotional arguments are always used to decieve. All the gold that has ever been mined is sitting somewhere waiting to be redelivered. Annual production may be one number, but annual consumption is effectively zero. This is why some of the silverbug arguments about the gold silver ratio have merit. If you put a gun to my head and said buy one and sell the other I would have to buy silver and short gold. Unfortunately, silver is ungoldly expensive to ship and will ruin the shocks on your car. It is not feasable to put millions upon millions of dollars into silver. As much as I love Coin's Financial School, silver will never again be as valuable as it was before 1873 unless it once again becomes the redeemable base of the monetary system.
I bought a contract woth (5000 oz) of silver in allocated storage through a futures broker in 1999 or 2000, I don't recall. It was in 100 oz (not good delivery-COMEX) bars (all Englehards). The price was 4.705 USD/ oz. I kept it at Delaware depository for way too long, but eventually took delivery. The delivery from Delaware Depository was hassle free, perhaps because I shipped them the crate and gave them instructions on how to ship by my common carrier. The junk is in a cheaper storage joint in the Chicago area that is legitimate.
I am pointing out that the physical buyer should stay with an allocated account and take delivery at the buyer's convenience. The silly high shipping pricing on Delaware Depository's website was not operative. They threw the slag in my crate, called my truck line, and that was that.
I will recommend Delaware Depository if you want to have an allocated account. I have no idea what an unallocated account would be like. Perhaps that is where the high costs come from when requesting delivery. The allocated account costs a lot more for storage but getting delivery is easy.
Often the futures markets are used to acquire physical metal indirectly. Once you own Comex receipts, you can swap them for allocated or unallocated metal at any LBMA refinery. Thus, you can use the COMEX to acquire physical metal in the tax domicile of your choice without depleting COMEX warehouse inventory. It's called a location swap.
Does anyone have statistics on the amount of allocated storage at all LBMA refineries? :) Does anyone even have reliable statistics on the annual production of all LBMA refineries? Now I am dangerously close to saying too much and I do not mean any offense to those whom have taught me well.
Keep in mind that the LBMA refineries, while the premier in the industry, are not nearly as big as the slave labor gold industry worldwide where people with no shoes mine gold for less than $1 per day. There was a great National Geographic issue a couple of years ago about this, called 'Gold, the true cost of the global obsession.'
that were short nearly 38% of annual world production of gold this past December should have had 944.90 physical metric tonnes of gold in their vaults to back up their short position at that time.
Bullshit. These futures contracts do not represent gold for delivery today, BUT FOR DELIVERY IN THE FUTURE. The author of this statement like anyone else arguing the COMEX is manipulated show a fundamental lack of knowledge about the nature of futures markets. Unlike securities markets where there is a finite number of shares issued in any particular security, the open interest in a futures market is theoretically unlimited. The bears do not need to have all of the product delivered today, only enough margin to cover an increase in price. Do the bulls have all the money in their accounts to take delivery on the gold? Of course not. If you require the bears to have the gold ready for delivery today against contract for deferred FUTURE delivery, you would also need to require the bulls to have all of the cash TODAY against contracts for FUTURE delivery. Do you think the open interest would stay as high if the longs had to post 100% of the value of their contracts? The price would come crashing down.
It is amazing how people that argue against government interference in their lives also argue for downright communist financial regulation of the futures markets. Downright doublethink.
Take delivery of ten percent of GLD? Would not make a difference in the price of gold. Take delivery of fifty percent of GLD? Would not make a difference in price. Take delivery of 50% of the COMEX open interest? That would cause a nice rally. Who has the ~16+ billion needed to do this for the privilege of paying storage on over ~500 tons of gold? Again, there is no requirement for contracts for FUTURE delivery to be 100% backed by metal TODAY.
How about when TOCOM raised the margin requirements on palladium to over 200%?
The margin requirements are often raised on long specs when the short commercials feel heat.
The same margin applies to both the short and the long. If margins are raised on the longs, the margins also go up for the shorts. I have read all the conspiracy crap to which you refer about margins being raised to stop long specs. Of course the TOCOM or anyone else needs to raise margins as the price goes higher. Percentage wise, the margins are now less than when gold was under $400. This is why margins should be calculated as a percentage (not lower than the reserve requirements of the banking system) and not a fixed dollar amount.
john lothian of the cme carried cia / fed water when he said, "They are parasites on the body public profiting from selling fear and seeking political change that will benefit their world view..."
the issue is to disrupt the truth in a moment of time to disprove it for all time....the power elite are frat boys who believe that the rules do not apply to them and their intellectualistas are post modernists who deny any truth at all....thus at all costs and no matter what, gold must be proved a failure.....lothian's statement was a projection on hard money men of his disdain for standards....
the ultimate goal is to fully discredit standards so that whims made at the fiat of a cabal of totalitarians survives, crushing its dissidents....
the battle over gold is the battle over freedom.....take the physical delivery challenge....
Here is the situation.
Most people that like to whine about the metals futures markets not being 'fair' have no idea what they are talking about. Unlike the metals, most futures markets have very restrictive delivery rules that keep the general public from being able to use them to unload product. Back in the olden days there was whining about how the futures exchanges crushed the market by disseminating widespread price information.
The best example would be crude oil, which has no warehouse receipts and requires delivery FOB in Cushing, Oklahoma on the day the buyer wants. If you are not one of the four companies that owns tanks in Cushing, it is impossible to make or take delivery against the crude oil contract. Thus, there is no real basis for the contract and the price discovery only reflects hedging. A similar situation exists with grain contracts which is why the basis is so high. When a farmer wants to sell his soybeans they cannot just deliver against short futures. Only a warehouse receipt can be delivered against short futures and the regular delivery elevators will not just give anyone warehouse receipts. Thus, the farmer is stuck selling at the cash price while the elevators rape the futures basis. The grain contracts are too big for farmers anyway and are designed for elevators, one contract represents almost a hundred acres of beans.
Metal futures however, allow practically anyone to make or take delivery of their metal. If you have some gold or silver, it can be assayed and the COMEX warehouses will happily issue receipts and charge you storage. If you take delivery of your receipt, nobody can stop you from showing up in Manhattan to get your physical metal. Just look at the number of deliveries of metal futures compared to other physicals. The metal futures are the most legitimate of all futures markets.
Many whine that there is not as much metal in the vaults to cover the open interest. While it may be true, it is also true that the longs don't have the money to take delivery of all their contracts. It's called leverage, and the exchange marks it to market daily. If the price starts rallying, the shorts must post more money daily or the exchange liquidates their positions. This is called the free market, and has only been legal with gold since 1973. Anyone that does not believe in the freedom to contract would probably feel more at home in a place like North Korea.
A precious metals exchange traded fund is not designed to be a substitute for physical metal. It is merely a way for those with a securities trading account at a broker dealer to move in and out of precious metals without having to take their money off of the firms books. If you don't like the stock market or cash, you can park for a while in GLD until you find a stock you like. It gives the exposure of metals without the costs of moving the money. The ETF's are the Series 7 broker's revenge for invention of futures on stock indexes. All is fair in love and war.
Many whine about 'manipulation' because someone is selling contracts and speculating the price will go down. Feel free to open an account and go long if you think the shorts are wrong about the price. Otherwise, stop whining. Selling large blocks is not 'manipulation' at all. It's called speculation. Feel free to do so yourself. Futures markets are the great populist equalizer because the small players get the same amount of leverage per contract as the large players. There is no difference in the maintenance margin for either. Futures markets are well regulated and the CFTC knows the positions of every large trader on a daily basis. The exchanges also know how much money the clearing firms have to cover their positions on a daily basis.
The problems exist with the over the counter markets. Under the original Commodity Exchange Act, it was illegal to trade any futures type leveraged contract anywhere except for a futures exchange. Wendy Graham legalized the over the counter market as head of the CFTC. It was the right thing to do, however there need to be stringent accounting rules in place to require that all over the counter trades be marked to market on a daily basis. It gets more complicated with exotic off the run financial derivatives, especially mortgage bonds, which don't really have a benchmark to set a mark. The current push to require centralized clearing of swaps and other over the counter products will remedy this situation. This allows the custom tailoring of products to meet the needs of end users, without the associated risks of homogenized contracts that are not a perfect fit. In corporate finance, one size does not fit all.
As far as over the counter precious metals are concerned, there is really no way to control it. Broker dealers here may have stringent rules as to the capital requirements and accounting of over the counter metals positions, however there is no way for our government to enforce these rules on other jurisdictions short of a full trade embargo. In today's world, such drastic measures are reserved only for rogue political states and not for mere disagreements on accounting standards.
One area where precious metal accounting is a serious issue is with the LBMA. The reason why the LBMA was organized as an over the counter market in the first place was because the price of gold has always been highly speculative. This gave the LBMA members a degree of flexibility that they would not have if the LBMA was a public marketplace. One thing that is never mentioned is that the Bank of England is an unofficial member of the LBMA. For example, if one of the LBMA members has their chalk line circled around a gold deposit at the Bank of England, they could make this gold available to customers. Does the Bank of England really have this gold in 'deep storage' that is booked on the balance sheets of LBMA members? If it did not then they could have a real problem. Who will hold them accountable? Even The Crown has no authority over the Bank of England and Her Royal Highness must be escorted by the Lord Mayor of the City is She Herself wishes to go admire her reflection in the Bank of England's gold.
They probably won't have a problem because at these prices gold producers are busier than two dollar whores on Saturday night. Especially the Chinese, who have often said that their slave labor production costs are significantly lower than the rest of the world. Almost all the gold that has ever been mined is available to be redelivered. Eventually, gold misers will have bills to pay or investments to make and the gold becomes available to the market once again. The higher the price, the more likely it is to happen. This is the real reason why gold comes crashing down from new highs, not because of manipulation on the futures exchanges which are some of the most legitimate markets in the financial markets. Gold is really a decentralized collection of many small markets, and is very thin compared to many other markets. Even the largest gold markets, the COMEX and LBMA, are tiny compared to securities markets. Hence, one large liquidator can crush it on any given trading day.
Many erroneously believe that hoarding precious metals will make them rich while the rest of the world collapses into a barter system. The truth is that even with the great returns in precious metals, other things also become more expensive. Due to fiscal debasement, gold could end up thousands of dollars higher, however expect to pay more for gasoline or food or anything else you want to live on as well. Hence, only with leverage is gold truly profitable over time. Confiscation like in 1933 is also unlikely due to the fact that the currency is no longer redeemable in physical metal. The main purpose of the 1933 confiscation was to allow let the banks off cheap from having to redeem in specie and not to collect metal from the public.
The great volatility creates serious opportunities to make real money in precious metals, however they must be leveraged or else you will just keep pace with inflation and deflation. However, precious metals are likely to outperform both stock and bond markets as long as governments debase their currencies. Despite significant deflationary forces, as long as governments continue to debase their way out of debt with loose fiscal policies, expect precious metals to trade higher over time. Nevertheless, do not forget that governments like the United States have other ways of holding gold that do not appear as bullion on official disclosures. Are precious metals held by the military listed on the balance sheet of the treasury? Why would they be?
Neither gold nor anything else is a binary situation; good versus evil, jew versus gentile, protestant versus catholic, bank versus farmer, government versus business, cop versus hippie, communist versus imperialist, negroid versus caucasoid, Bittany versus Christina, Coke versus Pepsi, VHS versus BETAMAX, black versus white. Such myopic dichotomies and arguments framed in such a way are demonstrative of dangerous ignorance that if starved to death will make the world a better place. Truth is the exposure of such dichotomies as inherently false.
In summary, the real reason gold will rally is because of fiscal debasement by spendthrift governments and not because of a victory of the little player over the futures exchanges that give the little player the same leverage as the big player. Futures, exchange traded funds, eagles, maples, bullion bars, dore bars are all just types of vehicles appropriate for different situations. There is no single vehicle appropriate for all situations. Would you drive your car to Hawaii? Perhaps a boat or a plane would be the more appropriate vehicle in that situation. Whatever the situation, everyone is just traveling from point A (the present) to point B (the future) in whatever vehicle is most appropriate for their situation. It does not make one vehicle more better than another. It does not make one type of person better than another which is the underlying context of all such arguments.
I don't have any big problem with this post. For that matter I find that gold is very high now in purchasing power compared to most real goods. As long as we all pretend that the world banking system is solvent, gold and silver are very high. They are anticipating a mark to market to be as high as they are now. Houses, cars, machine tools, electronics, foodstuffs, and everything manufactured is cheaper now in gold pricing than ever before, and by a large margin.
Also I will agree that the gold miners should be raking in huge profits, but they aren't. How many of them pay any decent dividend? The miners seem to only make enough to reward management. The scams of modern management are not lost on the mining company managements.
Exactly. The time to buy gold was when it took only seven barrels of oil to buy an ounce of gold, around late 2005. Now that there are commercials on CNBC targeting the ignorant masses, the shrewed investor should be looking elsewhere. Now is a good time to take profits on gold to buy other things. Don't buy a cup when the keg is almost dry.
I was the first broker ever to strike a gold option above $1000 back on 5/12/2006. While the trade looks good now, the volatility was a real roller coaster and cost me my two best customers. This was the first bet of actual money that gold would trade above $1000. If you want a real futures industry scandal, it's the crooked SPAN margin rules that allow the exchange to settle options on the offer instead of the bid. At least they stopped settling it above the offer once I called and complained to the idiots at the clearing house.
Many whine about 'manipulation' because someone is selling contracts and speculating the price will go down. Feel free to open an account and go long if you think the shorts are wrong about the price. Otherwise, stop whining. Selling large blocks is not 'manipulation' at all. It's called speculation. Feel free to do so yourself. Futures markets are the great populist equalizer because the small players get the same amount of leverage per contract as the large players. There is no difference in the maintenance margin for either. Futures markets are well regulated and the CFTC knows the positions of every large trader on a daily basis. The exchanges also know how much money the clearing firms have to cover their positions on a daily basis.
I read your post with interest until this paragraph. Great populist equalizer my ass. If the dot gov would like to offer me infinite taxpayer money as backing I'd be happy to start taking positions on the futures exchanges, and I can guarantee you they'd move any way I wanted them to. Instead, they steal money from me at gunpoint so their bosses at the bullion banks can try to steal still more money from me in the markets. House rules: the house always wins. If the house loses, see rule #1.
Nice try, though.
That is a separate issue entirely.
My point was about how the futures exchanges themselves charge the same maintenance margin to both the big players and small players, and not about government subsidization of the banking sector.
Government subsidization of the financial industry is significantly bigger than the futures industry, it's called the Federal Reserve. The Chicago Board of Trade is older than the Federal Reserve and will still be around once the Federal Reserve is gone.
Should the government allow the primary dealers of the Federal Reserve to purchase interest bearing securities with their own 'credit' instead of the credit issued only by the government itself? Why does the government issue base metal tokens good for the payment of taxes at par interest free, while all larger denomination bills are exchanged for interest bearing securities?
Personally, there is demand for credit currency because it is good for the payment of taxes. This is why the government should implement the Kennedy plan and issue United States notes to replace Federal Reserve notes and save billions a year in interest. If a Federal Reserve bank or anyone else wants to buy government securities, they should have to do it with government issued credit and not just their own. Think the little green stamps and not the little black stamps. Wouldn't you like to buy interest bearing government securities with nothing more than your signature? Your point is true, but much bigger than the futures exchanges.
The futures exchanges are not where the primary dealers are making money, it is where they have been loosing money to the little guy. In fact, they have lost so much money on the futures exchanges that the government must bail them out. It is no secret that the futures exchanges are used to control markets by setting benchmark prices. Unfortunately, it has more to do with arcane delivery rules designed to make it impossible for producers of various commodities from making delivery. Such rules are designed to avoid deflation and keep the prices of commodities high and not low because the government cannot afford to repay with more expensive dollars. However, the one futures market that does not have such restrictive delivery rules is the precious metals. They are really the only futures contracts with legitimate basis.
Central banks have been hoarding gold for decades. Gold is manipulated to keep the price from crashing back to $50 per ounce. Gold is manipulated UP and not DOWN.
Oh i feel so much better now. Thanks for clearing that up. For a minute there i thought i saw a puddycat. Its all good. 18 trillion dollars cant be all wrong.
All planets are warming, its OK. The concrete around my ankles has a nice hard feel to it.
Blah, blah, blah Nazis.
Blah, blah, blah Jews.
Blah, blah, blah banksters.
Blah, blah, blah politicians.
Blah, blah, blah derivatives.
Blah, blah, blah trillions.
Blah, blah, blah futures.
Blah, blah, blah regulators.
Blah, blah, blah capitalists.
Blah, blah, blah communists.
Blah, blah, blah socialists.
Blah, blah, blah anarchists.
Blah, blah, blah reptillians.
Blah, blah, blah 2012.
Blah, blah, blah photon belt.
Blah, blah, blah gangbangers.
Blah, blah, blah rednecks.
Blah, blah, blah terrorists.
Blah, blah, blah republicans.
Blah, blah, blah democrats.
Blah, blah, blah Hitler.
Blah, blah, blah Bush.
Blah, blah, blah Jefferson.
Blah, blah, blah yawn. Anything new?
What do you know? There are not '18 trillion dollars' anywhere. In fact, monetary aggregates would be impoding if it were not for fiscal debasement. You may wonder why your simpleton dichotomies are never taken seriously. Go ahead and be a poor bigot.
You forgot:
Blah, blah, blah mandalisj
Now your list is complete...
Ecological destruction is real.
Carbon tax solutions are not real.
Manbearpig is not real.
All my points are legitimate.
I will take your failure to refute any of them with factually based arguments as your agreement that my arguments are correct.
I am willing to bet an eagle that I have spent a little more time on trading floors than you.
"I will take your failure to refute any of them with factually based arguments as your agreement that my arguments are correct."
Wait, Was:
"Blah blah blah"
Your premise, your logical connectives or your conclusion?
That is humor by the way as your 2000 word mini post is logically laid out...
I think Goebbels is the one that said "ostensible diversity that conceals a uniformity" when talking about the type of media they needed.
Hitler, ah the boy'tard puppet of the Third Reich.
He also said, "We will build our empire without an ounce of gold [for currentsea purposes](as the reichsters wanted it for themselves)."
Genius.
I remember TD saying to get out of the stock market. Not because it was going to crash or anything, but because it was fundamentally fraudulent. I don't know if anyone took his advice.
If you get out, what do you get out into ?
My answer. Physical gold in your own possession.
Every ounce is a mortal blow to the corrupt system.
Good article smartknowledgeu !
Buying physical gold is the bullet that will bring croney capitalism to its knees.
I'm afraid you are not giving TPTB their due. Many avenues are open to them to prevent gold from achieving its centuries old destiny. See my post just above. Many gold owners could end up owning some beautiful door stops! That would include me. A 100oz silver bar would look great as a paperweight too.
I bet you don't believe that Mohammad ascended to heaven on a white steed either. Man made global warming is just another man made religion for the secularists, you know like socialism. Via con Dios.
to sku - i always love your posts, especially when you skewer lies such as carbon emissions propaganda to which i would add the fucktarded magic bullet theory and allied lone nut theories of political assassinations. the lies about gold are hilarious. the fed, cia, treasury, and their agent banksters spend enormous amounts of time, money, and energy manipulating these prices yet they deny the signficance of gold. that is sufficient proof of the importance of gold and its loose hinge to reality.
lbma is regularly paying 25% cash premiums to settle non-delivery failures related to paper gold. if you are looking to make free money, the gold delivery challenge is the way to go.
conspiracy deniers are delusional but quite common. take for instance the curious case of rudolph vrba and fred wetzel who escaped from auschwitz. after witnessing first hand the assembly line murder of people, their fellow jews in slovakia and hungary refused to believe them. even the jews preferred to believe the nazis over their own flesh and blood. the refusal to believe in conspiracies and evil is itself an evil.
it is not impossible to persuade the deluded masses of truth but it is an enormous challenge. people prefer fairy tales to truth - the endorphins are more powerful than adrenalin.....
brilliant.
You raise at least one important point that needs more discussion: The Grand Powers tend to denigrate gold as a worthwhile holding, yet they manipulate it in the markets. By the same token they could not possibly go to public lengths to confiscate it because that would be counter to their argument of its uselessness. On the other hand, they could legally limit its use, sale, storage, or other aspects of trade in order to reduce its velocity as a currency. That legal action is what we should fear.
That will only create a black market. It will also encourage those with sizable PM holdings to leave the country and see ways to get their PM's out with them. Perhaps take a drive to Canada with some Maple Leafs.
Don't get me wrong it will create problems, but it will further force capital out of hte country at a time when it is desperately needed. I think they are more likely to ignore gold and pretend it does not exist publicly.
There is all of that to consider. The net result is that gold/silver bullion rounds and bars will not become the currency of choice. There will be many among us who will not do anything "illegal"! Gold and silver are currencies right now -- I've used it often in personal transactions. The Grand Powers can do much to stifle the true destiny of the precious metals. That just makes its ownership and use kicked farther down the road, only to emerge much stronger and more accepted. Fear is a powerful thing, both amongst the Powers and the People.
Let's keep a thing or two in mind: The U. S. Mint produces the silver Eagle 1 oz coin. It can be small change or large depending on the spot pricing plus premium. The gold Eagles come in denominations of $5, $10, $25, and $50. With proper use in a circulating money the Eagle could be the basis for a new "base" in pricing. The key is that these coins are LEGAL TENDER. That makes it impossible for the gov't to devalue them. Coinage of other countries could be forbidden, but not the U. S. Mint's own utterances. They are screwed!
Buy U. S. coinage: Junk silver, classic common gold coins, modern gold and silver Eagles. That way a black market is not necessary, and precious metals currency is within the reach of the common man.
After taking a breath, I realize that the sooner the better for all the obvious reasons, but DAMMIT...I want just one more summer of bliss, just one more!
I say let the powers that be play their games, the illusion is better than the truth with the resulting anarchy. Unless you are liquidating all your assets to pm and hoping to win the lottery? Crap, quit poking the dragon with a stick! I will just keep buying more pm if the stock market keeps making me money. Enjoy what little peace we have left on earth, and leave the green curtain alone as long as we can Nothing will be allowed to fix the current system, let them prop up the calyopy as long as they can. I(we) may be armed to the teeth, loaded with goods and have an exit strategy, but You are damn right Im scared of it happening.
Gold is a Bubble Argument
A Novice Perspective:
Gold is just an inanimate object. Gold just sits there. Gold is really a measure, a yard stick... of fiat currencies. Gold shows you:
How much fiat it takes to buy Gold today.
How much fiat it took to buy Gold last year.
How much fiat it will take to buy Gold next year.
How is that a bubble? Devalue your currency and it will take more of it to buy Gold. Fiat currencies are the bubble... not Gold.
Am I wrong?
Not wrong, you are correct.
And where does it sit? Banks, banks, and banks. Well, supposedly, as it is gold that is the loan of first recourse; it is gold that starts the fractional-reserve ponzi scheme.
For those that eschew this argument: Go find some, then get back to me. Good luck.
I agree with Al. You about summed it up. Gold does price currencies, and gold itself is used as a currency. Currency (as opposed to "money") revolves around gold, not visa versa. The only thing you left off your list is that gold is a store of wealth.
Nope! Gold prices currencies. (Mises)
Yeah, gold is a measure a yardstick of fiat currencies. Gold doesn't change, fiats do right?
Now let me ask you, Rocky and Mr. Hendrix: What about holding gold in a deflationary cycle when other assets are deprecating?
I would not read your piece because your opening line proves you are an idiot. I am dissapointed that Zerohedge, which I have been following daily, would let someone so obviously either blindly stupid, or worse in the pay of Koch Oil, post here.
Please look at this sites -
http://www.extremeicesurvey.org/
http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/campaigns/global-warming-and-energy/pollut...
i will not be hard on you because i once believed in AGW . ie; the co2= global warming theory
but it was obviously not happening. this guy explains it brilliantly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stij8sUybx0
sorry, i see him as a pompous ass working for the oil cartel. No , i cant back it up. I trust few now a days. I trust my garden. There was no real winter in oregon. Spring is almost year round now. Go figure what that implies. You really have to have your head up your arse to not see we have a serious problem in every aspect of our life.
I agree. Monckton does come off that way but hey, he's British...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOLkze-9GcI
How about Bob Carter. Is he too pompous for you?
macfly, try to keep an open mind. investigate the links between government taxation of the people and the carbon-based emission theory of global warming. note that I said I don't believe specifically in the carbon-based emission theory of global warming. I'm still open to global warming as a trend, though one attributable to sun spot activity and other alternate scientific explanations whereby the evidence is much stronger than the carbon-based emission theory.
The entire body of scientists on our planet are all agreed that we are seeing a significant speeding up of global warming due to carbon dioxide build up. This is of course against massive deforestation and exponential human growth. Each human life consumes more oxygen, and returns more CO2 to the atmosphere than the machine he drives in his life, a fact that is often a little glossed over.
Milankovitch identified the cycles of glaciation and inter glacial summers a long time ago. We are currently about 5,000 years ahead of where we should be in the cycle, and getting very close to the stalling of the Gulf Stream thermocline, which will radically alter the ability of the worlds harvest to feed the worlds population. Read this - http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=3668345
By putting a left/right slant on this illustrates how the sheeple who have responded here have bought into the Washington Punch and Judy show that those behind the Fed are sponsoring to divide and conquer this free minds of our once great nation.
Do you think Obama is a socialist or a puppet?
How many people have been changed in the Pentagon since he came to power? None.
How many wars have we pulled out of? None
Have the 13 bankers who sat with Bush, and then Obama at the start of this crisis, had any restrictions put on them to stop their terrible plunder of the American people? No, they are just throwing more coin into lobbyists, and the only socialism here is the socializing of their losses!
Healthcare reform that massively profits the Insurance and Pharmaceutical Industry while pick pocketing the taxpayer again?
Socialism? Change you can believe in?
Give me a break, wake the up and look at what is happening in our once great country. This is not left and right, it is right and wrong, and right now wrong is way winning.
Sorry about the digression from the gold/silver theme of my original post everyone but I believe this debate is important to dissect further here because my thinking about global warming may help people further understand the points of my article above.
Macfly, you actually reinforced my point with your rebuttal. You said this is about right and wrong and I agree. But if we are trying to distill this argument down to right and wrong, why bring up Obama? Maybe you think I’m a supporter of Obama because I’m Asian but your assumption would be wrong. I have studied politics in Mexico, the US, Japan, Brazil and many other countries to understand well enough that unless the bankers supported Obama, there was no way he could have possibly risen to power so quickly and been elected as our President.
Furthermore, you obviously are not familiar with my other writings (I have been blogging since 2006). I have stated many times that Obama’s fiscal and monetary policies illustrate no marked difference from the 20 years of his predecessors: the 8 years of Bush Jr., the 8 years of Clinton and the 4 years of Bush Sr. The consistency of quite terrible and damaging monetary and fiscal policy during this stretch of time clearly shows you who runs the government. When I first started blogging in 2006, when I said the US economy was going to be heading for difficult times for the rest of the decade, people looked at my picture, assumed I was Chinese (I am not, I am Korean-American), and started hurling anti-Chinese sentiment my way along with childish name-calling. When I warned of a stock-market collapse in 2008 just a couple of weeks before it happened, again people called me un-American and an idiot.
For me, it has always been about right and wrong, not politics. I believe that to quote any self-annointed or media-annointed authority as the basis for your strong beliefs is as an erroneous method to build an argument as any. Consider all the financial authorities (Bernanke, Paulson, Geithner, et al) that have consistently been wrong about their predictions for the economy for years on end. Scientists are similar. They often make predictions based upon an agenda they have, NOT what is right and what is wrong. You stated an absolute here:
“The entire body of scientists on our planet are all agreed that we are seeing a significant speeding up of global warming due to carbon dioxide build up.”
That simply is not true. There are many well-respected scientists that are very skeptical about global warming even being true:
Here are comments from just 3 very prominent scientists among a much larger contingency that have voiced their skepticism:
“I am a skeptic…Global warming has become a new religion.” - Nobel Prize Winner for Physics, Ivar Giaever.
“Since I am no longer affiliated with any organization nor receiving any funding, I can speak quite frankly….As a scientist I remain skeptical.” - Atmospheric Scientist Dr. Joanne Simpson, the first woman in the world to receive a PhD in meteorology and formerly of NASA who has authored more than 190 studies and has been called “among the most preeminent scientists of the last 100 years.”
Warming fears are the “worst scientific scandal in the history…When people come to know what the truth is, they will feel deceived by science and scientists.” - UN IPCC Japanese Scientist Dr. Kiminori Itoh, an award-winning PhD environmental physical chemist.
Furthermore, this was reported just last month:
“A newly updated U.S. Senate Minority Report features the dissenting voices of over 650 international scientists, many current and former UN IPCC scientists, who have now turned against the UN.”
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&Content...
Macfly, have you ever considered any dissenting opinion that opposes your own view? I have arrived at my own conclusion only after carefully considering both sides of the argument. Furthermore, despite the outright skepticism of many prominent scientists that global warming is actually even happening, I stated that I am still open to the belief in global warming. I am even STILL open to the belief that global warming is occurring due to carbon emissions if the evidence mandates that I alter this belief in the future. As I said, however, I feel that there is enough credible evidence right now that opposes this view, and that is why I no longer adhere to it.
Since global warming does have a very political agenda, and propaganda is involved in its promotion on both sides, you will always find credible voices that support both sides and we could argue this until we are both blue in the face, if we only quite the "authorities" in this subject matter. Consequently, in my humble opinion, the best way to determine the truth behind any hotly contested debate, such as global warming, is to FOLLOW THE TRAIL OF MONEY and answer these questions:
“Who has benefited the most so far from the belief in global warming?”
“Who is set to benefit the most in the future from global warming?” (did you know JP Morgan bought carbon trader Ecosecurities for $204 million and Goldman Sachs bought Constellation Energy’s carbon trading unit in 2009?)
“Who is setting themselves up right now to benefit from the trade in carbon credits?”
“Is the market in carbon credits more about making money than actually reducing carbon emissions?”
“Are the worst polluters still going to be allowed to pollute considerably under the market that is ebing established in carbon credits, and if so, what does this tell you?”
"What is the tax benefit to governments and the harm to citizens that are being pushed on the people based upon the agenda of a carbon-emissions based global warming theory?"
macfly, if you have not yet answered the above questions for yourself as of yet, I strongly urge you to do so. Follow the trail of money because as the cliché goes, money has no agenda, no political affiliations and the money does not lie. Find out the answers to my above questions, macfly, and you may find that you may evolve from your current views.
I agree with you (& Ron Paul) 100% in the sentiment that Obama is not socialist but is rather corporatist.
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/40351
i also completely agree with you that an ultra-wealthy ruling class are well on their way toward completing the corporate takeover of national governments all over the world. I've given up quite some time ago on any notion of balanced reporting from commercial media & now simply consider that everything I see on TV, radio, newspaper is a lie told with the intent to sway popular opinion toward supporting their corporatist/globalist agenda.
Where you are wrong is buying into the story of AGW. This is just a globalist corporatist tall tale (a form of financial innovation if you will), invented to frighten you to acquiesce your rights to big brother with the expectation that he will 'protect' you.
An interesting couple of takes on AGW for you to marginalize.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOLkze-9GcI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stij8sUybx0
Anton is right.
I'll bight.
One little aside by the author and you hijack the theme.
After the Copenhagen debacle and the released emails, leading to admissions of fraud by the trusty evidence gatherers, that pesky part of the debate you conveniently ignore (just like that pesky "fraudlent gold market" part of the article you ignored), who in the world other than a truth denier would believe them now?
Turn off your computer, you're killing us with your fume-like fulminations..
More like a Fascist Conspiracy, Anton.
Corporate paper games with government rights to tax citizens, for their cut. Proudly supported by the something-for-nothing crowd, always riding the coattails of the govt. and looking for handouts,
Leeches.
Welcome to Zero Hedge - you must be new around here.
Most people on this forum do not believe in global warming, and dismiss it as a socialist conspiracy. Don't let that stop you, they can be smart on other sujects. Or not. Your mileage may vary.
Nope, been here since around Sept of last year, moved over from RGE.
Just like the tides coming in global warming isn't something that won't happen because you don't believe in it. It amazes me that intelligent people can put aside the most startling and compelling evidence of a serious ecological disaster that is staring us in face because of the power of the dollars of a few oil companies.
Read this - http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=3668345
+100
Beautiful! But the obvious NOW is that the LBMA operates on a 10% reserve. The bullion banks operate in the same manner according to Christian. Is my math skewed by surmising that this would drain their entire holdings?
Does the GLD operate in the same manner with their share price structure?
As another conspiracy proposition, one that I haven't come across in my readings but has probably been raised on another thread:
As the powers that be are probably aware, the holders of physical gold are not your average Mr. and Mrs. J. AND J. SP.
(The 14 cents per oz. and other lowball guesses by contestants on the "Guess the price, you keep the Eagle coin" video on youtube, somewhat proves my thinking).
Knowing that most investors operate through brokers and use offsite storage, what a great coup it would be to have private investors move their holdings into a central depository, and as the pile grows to hugh amounts, wouldn't a confiscation edict by the government be the second coming of the FDR game-play, only on a greater scale and without the hassle of searching every backyard septic tank, cistern and water-well?