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Slick Willie Calls For Broad Principal Mortgage Writedowns

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Bill Clinton, in what appears to be an attempt to succeed where the IEA failed so miserably to score some brownie points for the president, told Bloomberg's Al Hunt during an interview, that Bank of America Corp.’s accord with mortgage-bond investors may give more “underwater” homeowners a chance to cut the principal on their home loans. "You’d relieve the anxiety of countless Americans who would know they could hold onto their homes." That you would also bring moral hazard to the masses and demonstrate to the public that the alternative of prudent monetary management is not insolvency, but yet more bailouts, apparently was lost on the slick one. And confirming that he still has no clue how anything in the ponzi system works, he added: "You lift not only an economic, but a psychological burden off of the homeowners and the banks,” he said. “And we’re free to start lending again, we’re free to engage in normal economic activity." Apparently marking down one's assets, which would in turn lead to massive Tier 1 capital (as artificial as it may be) erosion, and a need to funnel hundreds of billions of new cash in on the balance sheet, while at the same time setting off a chain reaction whereby everyone else is forced to remark their assets (all currently at par thanks to FASB encouraged Mark to Unicorn), an act which QE 1, Lite and 2 have been doing all they can to avert, is stimulative to "lending". And this is the thought process of the person credit with generating the last American budget surplus...

This is one of those rare occasions when one must commiserate with Brian Moynahan:

Brian T. Moynihan, 51, the chief executive officer of Charlotte, North Carolina-based Bank of America, said in April that “we do not see broad-based principal reduction as a sound policy decision” for the country.

“It’s hard to see how we could justify reducing principal for many delinquent customers who represent a small portion of borrowers, but not for the vast majority of our customers who have stayed current on their loans,” he said in the prepared text of a speech.

There really is nothing more to say on this one. Which means that Clinton's "modest proposal" will likely be enacted very shortly.

 

 

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Thu, 06/30/2011 - 16:46 | 1416859 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Mr. (ex)President, my offer is this: nothing. Not even the price of the property taxes, which I would appreciate if you would put up personally.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 16:58 | 1416909 plocequ1
plocequ1's picture

Dont ever tell anyone outside the family what you're thinking again

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 18:01 | 1417081 citta vritti
citta vritti's picture

principal reduction. lol. like the scene where DeNiro as young Vito has the old lady’s landlord negotiating against himself for rent reduction.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 20:12 | 1417371 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

Against him.  The recent abuse of reflexive pronouns has gotten way out of hand.  I can't read this garbage.  LOOK PEOPLE, IF YOU DON"T KNOW HOW TO USE YOURSELF, HIMSELF, MYSELF, ETC, DONT!  Sorry for the rant.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 20:39 | 1417484 QQQBall
QQQBall's picture

Go fuck yourself

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 21:53 | 1417642 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Since politicians are getting principle reductions, why shouldn't the average Joe?  Oh that's right, we can't drop legislation that would make foreclosure harder in return.

http://mandelman.ml-implode.com/2011/04/az-rep-seel-drops-amendment-requ...

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 22:00 | 1417652 his name is rob...
his name is robert paulson420's picture

please remove the sand from your vagina.

 

now go fuck urself.

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 00:10 | 1417932 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

i think you are mistaken pan.  the landlord is negotiating against himself (i.e. the landlord) not vito.  vito offered extra money but asked that the landlord let the lady's dog stay.  although he, the landlord, initially refused, when he found out who vito was, he negotiated against himself, changing the offer vito made to one even more advantageous for vito's "principal", the lady (i.e. to a reduced rent and letting the dog stay).

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 18:32 | 1417168 max2205
max2205's picture

Funny, I actually wrote to Dick Obama the very same plan but said interest rates had to be Raised. No reply from Dick

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 22:46 | 1417740 pepperspray
pepperspray's picture

Ha!

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 00:19 | 1417939 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

you make an interesting comparison.  others seem to have noticed as well: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/06/obama-has-finally-be...

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 18:56 | 1417223 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Slick willie, your my brotha and I love ya, but don't ever, ever go against the family again..  The part of my brother played by J.P. Morgan, GS etc..

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 19:45 | 1417362 his name is rob...
his name is robert paulson420's picture

What are you gonna do? Nice college boy, didn't want to get mixed up in the family business. Now you want to gun down a police captain. Why? Because he slapped you in the face a little? What do you think this like the Army where you can shoot 'em from a mile away? No you gotta get up like this and, badda-bing, you blow their brains all over your nice Ivy League suit.

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 02:25 | 1418023 laughing_swordfish
laughing_swordfish's picture

It's not personal, Sonny, it's strictly business...

 

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 16:47 | 1416862 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

Give that man a cigar.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 16:56 | 1416897 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

Cigar and Clinton?  Hmmmm..........

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 16:59 | 1416914 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

That goes more to his policy on illegal immigration.  After all, if he didn't favor it, why would he go to those lengths to hide a cuban inside a cow?

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:05 | 1416931 Pegasus Muse
Pegasus Muse's picture
When you absolutely, positively need a f***ed up idea to divert attention from the latest O’bummer leadership fiasco … the release of the nation's SPR ….. it is Slick Willie to the rescue.     Slick will say and do just about anything for a free cigar and a Jersey Shore bimbo. 
Thu, 06/30/2011 - 18:12 | 1417124 macholatte
macholatte's picture

Clinton is the personification of the failure of Obama.

Let us not forget that the foundation for the demise of the USA was laid during Clinton's rule.

 

Both oligarch and tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms.
Aristotle

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 18:24 | 1417145 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Among other evils which being unarmed brings you, it causes you to be despised.

Machiavelli

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 20:07 | 1417412 RF
RF's picture

Gun control means being able to hit your target.

RF (and many others)

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 00:30 | 1417954 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

imo the origin of the demise of the usa predates clinton.  and, again imo, it seems unlikely it has much to do with a lack of weapons at whatever level.  the usa has the best armed military and citizenry in the world.  and, apparently, almost an eagerness to use their guns.  

debt and mendacity seem a lot closer to the problem. 

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 19:51 | 1417364 his name is rob...
his name is robert paulson420's picture

+1

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 16:48 | 1416868 Jack Mehoff
Thu, 06/30/2011 - 16:44 | 1416870 HEHEHE
HEHEHE's picture

Where'd he go to school again?

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:33 | 1416993 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

Some place where you could major in being a cunt, that's for sure.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:49 | 1417047 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

Oh yeah, he did meet Hillary in school.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 22:55 | 1417758 owensdrillin
owensdrillin's picture

Sad to say, but I would rather have Hillary running the free world right now that idiot. Fuck me are we fucked.

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 05:08 | 1418086 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 You neeed tooo stay out of those [Particle accelerators> POOF!!!

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 16:44 | 1416873 kengland
kengland's picture

It's about time the people get taken care of. Christ, if the morons are going to pass our money around, we might as well get some of it.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:09 | 1416941 Bob
Bob's picture

But the moral hazzard! 

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:06 | 1416944 Eternal Student
Eternal Student's picture

We? What's this freakin "we" bit? This is only going to help a small subset of people, while screwing over the vast majority of homeowners. You know, the ones who lived responsibly?

Oh, I forget. If you've lived within your means, and have savings, that's supposed to be given to those who partied and gambled.

Silly me.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:13 | 1416960 kengland
kengland's picture

Look at it this way. The whole facking system is facked. You can't turn this ship. Think flying a jet into a mountain and you and I are on board.

With that being said, we can now fight over the last cocktail. I want a facking drink. The bank scum has been sucking off the damn thing now for year. I want to belly up while I can.

It's the system. We just opporate in it.

If it matters, I would not benefit from it, but I would much rather see "people" get something then wall st.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:41 | 1417020 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

I love how we have turned into a country of, "I can justify any wrong by pointing to a bigger wrong".  I'm really tired of that shit.  It is like little kids saying, "but Bobby got a cookie". 

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 18:54 | 1417228 Medea
Medea's picture

And "two wrongs don't make a right" is kids' logic. Right and wrong were lost long ago.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 23:47 | 1417898 narnia
narnia's picture

when a bankruptcy court writes off debt, is that a wrong?  i don't view it that way.  i view it as a necessary part of any free market capitalist system.  

yes, the homeowner who purchased an irrationally priced asset made a bad decision.  well, so did the investor who purchased mortgages in a big package writted by a fraudulent entity without proper underwriting.  from my view, expecting the homeowner to take a bath while the investor remains whole (earning all stated interest with the taxpayer on the hook for deficiency through GSEs) is unconsionable.

in my opinion, mortgage invesors should volunteer to mark down ALL mortgages to ALL homeowners to 1% APR for the amount of years that corresponds to 5% reductions in home value from time of purchase.  should these mortgage investors not participate, they forgo their "implicit" government mortgage guarantee & face summary action by homeowners voiding any purchase contract with MERS involved.  

 

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 00:27 | 1417952 Osmium
Osmium's picture

My mortgage is paid, I no longer have a loan on my property.  Should the bank then give me cash?

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 02:40 | 1418029 laughing_swordfish
laughing_swordfish's picture

+ 1

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 19:29 | 1417325 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

i hear ya, sarge! 

yes, there is one drink left.  you and that fabulous wench blythe the bankster drank everything!  then, she took the only parachute and jumped. 

but i have the gun!  hahaha!  so finish the drink.  then i want you to take the gun and shoot me.  i can't take it anymore!   i can't wait for this damned plane to crash any longer.  i've had enough shitty stories and bad actors.  this is completely ridiculous!

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 18:44 | 1417188 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture

I did everything right, purchased a house I could afford, with 25% down, and i'm now $60k underwater.  Why am I not deserving of a break while others are?

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 19:04 | 1417255 kengland
kengland's picture

Why do the banks deserve a "break" with your money? The systems broke. Savors have been punished for almost a century now. Enough with the "doing the right thing." In hell, doing the right thing get's you no where 

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 19:19 | 1417299 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture

The banks need to do the right thing and write down the mortgages because they were the ones who inflated them with shoddy and rigged appraisals in the first place. They over-value the homes when times are good, and are now under-appraising them to keep people in their current mortgages.

In a fair world, the banks would have gone through bankruptcy, with bad loans separated from good. Instead, the too big to fails got even bigger, and continue ripping off people like you and I who are now stuck in homes even when we did every responsible thing before the whole system collapsed.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 19:48 | 1417356 kengland
kengland's picture

If you and I were on a plane heading into a mountain, I would suggest we hit something else other than the booze :)

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 04:00 | 1418060 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture

I could boil the water in your helmet.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 20:01 | 1417382 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

Hi Xeno, time for enlightenment.  What you don't realize (yet) is that the banks technically don't have any money.  They have your money and they have my money.  When they pay fines or go bankrupt, we lose.  That's why they get to do what they want until they REALLY fuck up and get taken over by the FDIC, right after they are looted.

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 03:56 | 1418058 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture

Here's some enlightenment: If no one has any money, and it's all just a fucking shell game, then why not clear the board for everyone? This extend and pretend as all the banks are insolvent isn't helping anyone except for the banking executives.

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 06:38 | 1418107 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

Seriously? You and I don't have access to the printing press.  This game has always been about power and control.  There are two sides, the owners and everyone else. Most people don't know that they are part of the game, for example, the upper lower class vs. the welfare recipiants...  The game has been the same forever.  If writing down our mortgages makes you belive in the system, then they've won, but they will never relinquish their financial control (peacefully.) By the way, this isn't class warfare, (unless class warefare is the game being played) it is about crowd control.

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 08:05 | 1418191 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"This game has always been about power and control.  There are two sides, the owners and everyone else.Most people don't know that they are part of the game, for example, the upper lower class vs. the welfare recipiants..."

Bad example...we will have to get over this notion that because one chooses to be a welfare recipient, the welfare recipient becomes entitled to someone else's labor simply with the passage of time. 

Charity cannot be forced. It can only be given freely or withheld on a voluntary basis by the one being asked. Cohersion or threat do not play a part in charity or it is extortion/theft.

"The game has been the same forever.  If writing down our mortgages makes you belive in the system, then they've won, but they will never relinquish their financial control (peacefully.) By the way, this isn't class warfare, (unless class warefare is the game being played) it is about crowd control."

This is, in fact, class warfare. The elites against everyone else.

The elite class of politician attempted a model of finance in which the less successful among us could feel better about the circumstances they find themselves in. In doing this, they (the politician) teamed up with other elites (bankers) to become the "white knights" for those people...or Stockholm Syndrome, however one wishes to describe it.

However they, the elites, never take personal responsibility for their own actions. They always make only one group responsible for their actions.

The taxpayer...the common man...the prudent citizen.

This group is in the process of discovering the moral hazard that was very much discussed and commented on three years ago.

That event was when one class of elites decided to absolve the other class of elites of any obligation the former class of elites had placed upon them by, again, this notion of forced charity.

We are discovering these elites were not the white knights as presented at all but black knights and the destroyers of all that is good.

Now comes the age old tactic of elite guilt transference as a rear guard action. This time the common man sees it.

This time it will not work.

 

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 20:54 | 1417523 Eternal Student
Eternal Student's picture

I'm truly sorry to hear that you are underwater. But I have also done everything right. I'm not underwater. So, allow me to (respectfully) ask you the same thing? Why am I not deserving of a break while others are?

This is a slippery slope, and punishes those who have been saving and not gambling. I really should've gone all out, is the message that this sends.

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 04:05 | 1418064 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture

The problem is that people like you and I were victims of fraud. The greatest fraud in human history. The only real answer is to bust up the banks, let the insolvent ones fail, and face the consequences like citizens of this great nation. I'll gladly keep paying the mortgage on my underwater house if the loan is being held by a reputable bank.

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 04:40 | 1418078 Eternal Student
Eternal Student's picture

I agree with you about busting up the banks. The issue that I have is that I have seen way, way too many people jump into the housing market irresponsibly, thinking that they are grabbing their golden ticket. Even today. 3% down and they are good. And probably underwater in 6 months.

If the Feds bail out people who are underwater, they are only making this problem worse. They are sending the message, very clearly, that everyone should gamble away and not fear taking any losses. It will be yet another fraud upon the taxpayer, and homeowners. Especially when the Feds can't afford to keep it up.

 

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 07:52 | 1418172 pelican
pelican's picture

I agree with you.  The system is totally broken and people who did save and worked extremely hard lost everything.  I have worked for this country for many years  protecting the nation from communists, foreign extremists, etc. For what?  I have worked every day of my adult life, now my blue collar home is being taken by the banks who refuse to work with me because I fell one month behind with a payment.

The system is so broken at this point. 

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 22:47 | 1417734 Founders Keeper
Founders Keeper's picture

[I did everything right, purchased a house I could afford, with 25% down, and i'm now $60k underwater.  Why am I not deserving of a break while others are?]---XenoFrog

Hi Xeno.

If you're able to keep up with your mortgage payments, that's a lot to be grateful for, as many cannot.

My wife and I bought this house for $190k in 2002. We have it paid down to approx $165k, 30yr fixed. Comp'd in 2005 at $350k. Today comps around $220k.

I fully expect our home value to continuing dropping to about $70-90k. (That's if we're lucky enough to get a severe generation-long depression.) As long as my wife and I can pay our mortgage payments we're OK being underwater.

However, if we're UNlucky, I expect a far worse future awaits our nation. In that case, being "underwater" on your mortgage will be the least of your worries.

Prepare for the worst, and hope for the best.

Beware, accepting hand outs from the govt comes with strings attached. Protect your spirit.

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 04:02 | 1418061 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture

There's always someone in deeper shit.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 22:54 | 1417762 owensdrillin
owensdrillin's picture

Whoever junked Eternal should find another website to peruse.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:07 | 1416947 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

"Our" money?

Whose money do you think you should get?

Money from people who work and pay their mortgages on time?

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 16:46 | 1416879 nasdaq99
nasdaq99's picture

School at Oxford.

He's very practiced at giving away OPM.  

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 16:47 | 1416881 TrafficNotHere
TrafficNotHere's picture

Yeh, handouts to those underwater... meanwhile whose of us who put down 20% and have been paying off ahead of schedule so we are not underwater, are going to get screwed again.

Do the right thing, get screwed; takes stupid risks, and nanny state government will save you... at the cost of those trying to do the right thing...

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 16:59 | 1416927 Dreadker
Dreadker's picture

Agreed... My wife and I waited for the mortgage derivative bubble to burst before we bought our home... have a mortgage well within our means at a low fixed 30yr...

but due to the ongoing farcicle economic debaucle we no longer pay extra principal, we buy gold, silver and lead....

</sarc> we're hoping that we can be underwater someday and receive free interest free money from the govt... so maybe we should go get a couple of mercedes this weekend, rack up all our credit cards to the limit and piss away thousands on multiple ipad 2s </endsarc>

Whats sad is that one of my friends is underwater on his loan (he bought in august 2008 ouch), but because he hasn't defaulted on it, hes not eligible for any assitance or principal reduction... further proof that if you're responsible you're gonna get f*cked over...

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:16 | 1416959 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Dont worry

Barry Soetoro and socialism are gone after 2012.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 19:35 | 1417335 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Maybe, but it does not give much solace to a terminal lung cancer patient to know that he will likely quit smoking in 18 months.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 23:00 | 1417766 owensdrillin
owensdrillin's picture

Don't kid yourself that the new clowns will be any different. They are only there to keep their jobs and doing the right thing will not keep their jobs for long.

I used to disagree about getting the meltdown over with but there is no other solution. Melt it down and let's start over.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 22:46 | 1417748 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

They will be very surprised at what will happen if this gets serious consideration.  Folks who never considered default would put that option at the top of their list if they know they will get debt forgiveness.   The default rate would vault all expectations.

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 00:15 | 1417933 FreeNewEnergy
FreeNewEnergy's picture

Well, that is part of the master plan, after all.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 18:41 | 1417190 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture

I'd bet the majority of Americans who are still paying their mortgages would be underwater if they tried to sell.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 19:16 | 1417300 unununium
unununium's picture

Underwater means the house is worth less than the loan.  There are many more whose house is worth less than they bought it for.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 16:49 | 1416887 PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture

Yes, I'm thrilled at the thought of paying for the millions of deadbeats out there.

Thanks, Bill.

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 00:34 | 1417963 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

you (actually the unborn) are paying for thousands of deadbeats already: the bondholders of the tbtf banks worldwide.  and they didn't even say thanks.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 16:53 | 1416888 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

That is slick... If a homeowner accepts a write-down, then they accept the validity of the lien on the property title.  Never trust a politician.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 19:02 | 1417246 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Right, because if you don't accept one the Gvoernment courts will find the robosigning fiasco to instantly create a mortgage free home for all and implode the world economy like a collapsing star..  C'mon UR, not that simple.

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 05:06 | 1418083 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

No, the problem is that neither the banks nor the squatters want to go to court and clear up the title mess on specific properties.  As long as there is a significant inventory of houses in the US with unclear titles then there can be no substantial recovery in housing market.  There is no such thing as a free house, Government renegotiation is a deal with the devil, but the larger problem is  extending the uncertainty which impacts the entire market, not just the properties with title issues. 

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 16:55 | 1416895 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

better give them to ALL mortgage holders

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:02 | 1416922 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

Where's the moral hazard in that?

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:55 | 1417079 youngman
youngman's picture

Of course they will gladly pay the income tax on the writedown....the reduction in debt..I am not an accountant but I know there is an event there..

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:49 | 1417041 MarkD
MarkD's picture

And what about those for have made all the payments and have no mortgage?

What about us?

 

 

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 18:20 | 1417140 Arius
Arius's picture

well...there are not enough chairs ... sorry ...

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 19:41 | 1417277 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

well, markD, the value of your property went down too, didn't it? 

this is just a "casino bonus" for those who played for more debt points, that's all.  part of the new "macau" business model, doncha know... 

now, stop fussin, or we'll repo your fukin house!

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 01:42 | 1418003 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 If the value didn't, Purchasing power did!  It's a lose , lose. Some one call the TIDY BOWL MAN!  Good post slewie. yen

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 16:52 | 1416896 HEHEHE
HEHEHE's picture

Does that mean that if you have no mortgage you get the equivalent of the mortgage write-down?  It's only fair.  Let's do what is fair.  Right?  It's about fairness.  All of us are nervous about the economy.  It's only fair.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 16:58 | 1416908 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

I am always interested in advice from a traitor who never worked a day in his life.  Hang em!  Hang em high!

 

Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 16:53 | 1416905 PlausibleDenial
PlausibleDenial's picture

It's tax revenue for all the relief that would become taxable....

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 16:59 | 1416910 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

Is he flapping his lips again? Had to take a little break from golf and...........what is the word, getting hummers maybe? 

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 16:59 | 1416915 dracos_ghost
dracos_ghost's picture

...we do not see broad-based principal reduction as a sound policy decision” for the country.

 

They misunderstood Clinton. He meant reduce principals for women.

“It’s hard to see how we could justify reducing principal for many delinquent customers who represent a small portion of borrowers, but not for the vast majority of our customers who have stayed current on their loans,” he said in the prepared text of a speech.

 

Then why the need for TARP,TALF,PPIP,etc. if the majority of your portfolio is solvent. Moynihan was one of the big mouths demanding government intervention on his balance sheet. You know, reduction of counterparty obligations of BAC. Sort of like mortgage principal reduction. What's good for the goose...

 

 

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 16:59 | 1416919 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

How about those of us who saw deterioration in housing and our income and decided to sell as the prudent and responsible thing to do?  Now, as we sit on our hands and rent while we bide our time for re prices to revert to something resembling reasonable value...values should be held up.  Any one of you people who thinks that anything other than true price discovery should be waylaid so you don't lose your little slice of the amerikan dream are slaves to a dream.

For those who made reasonable purchases and/or are comfortable with your housing obligation...this doesn't apply to you.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:05 | 1416932 kengland
kengland's picture

You live in fantasy land. Price discovery? If you haven't figured it out by now, that is never going to happen with a central bank. Prices haven't been discovered since 1913.

Play the game the way it's set up.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:15 | 1416958 hambone
hambone's picture

Steal or be stolen from...not much between them.  We all are left to choose between heaven and hell (however you conceive it) I suppose.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:15 | 1416968 kengland
kengland's picture

That's it. You and I didn't ask for this. You either eat or be eaten. In the next life, maybe we can make a difference. This is 150yrs in the making. Too late now. It's global

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:19 | 1416977 hambone
hambone's picture

Actually, I specifically asked for something significantly different...still waiting to hear back on that request.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:23 | 1416985 kengland
kengland's picture

Um...talk to my old friend Freddy Nietzsche. He'll set you straight

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 18:25 | 1417156 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture
To predict the behavior of ordinary people in advance, you only have to assume that they will always try to escape a disagreeable situation with the smallest possible expenditure of intelligence.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Fri, 07/01/2011 - 01:44 | 1418006 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  I like that! +1  That's why the [Tree Police] Exist.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 22:25 | 1417685 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

"Play the game the way its setup..."

Been playing it well for 25 years buddy. Been through three cycles. Price distortion with no price destruction equals a broken game. Play for a while and you'll figure it out.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:03 | 1416938 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Come on infinite moral hazard! Sure we got this but how about a write down on student loan debt to? Take the burden off us young folks who are struggling, and besides what's a trillion dollars between friends?

Though don't see this happening, unless the plan involves Uncle Sugar paying off the difference to keep bank balance sheets intact. Also must remember nothing enrages the cattle more than seeing another cow get preferential treatment. Have cattle that will chew their cud and watch TV during a banker bailout but will take to the streets if their neighbors get free money.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:06 | 1416942 SwingForce
SwingForce's picture

Perfect! It worked for the bankers, why not the homowners? Except some of those homes have already been paid off with TARP funds & Maiden Lane purchases, this might be a WET SIGNATURE ploy, don't trust Slick Willie.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:08 | 1416950 bill1102inf
bill1102inf's picture

Pffft, you GOING TO GET SCREWED NO MATTER WHAT!, property values continue to PLUMMET while 100's of thousands and MILLIONS more foreclosures come on the market.  The gov should be taking over these banks and selling off all this property to the highest bidder and let that be that.  

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 23:07 | 1417764 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

One thing overlooked here is the cascade effect.  When homeowners are no longer underwater they will be getting out while the getting is good.   Thus, creating lower market prices and another whole layer of underwater homeowners.  Do they get bailed out next to start the next downleg cycle?

If part of the deal were that the banks would have to actually write down this crap, I might -- might -- might be in favor!   Revealing the insolvency would be its own reward.   But that ain't gonna happen, no way, no how.  Pipe dream....

Other than the fact that I am well above water on my mortgage, and would be outraged at first for the program as presented, I don't have a dog in this fight.   Moral hazard is more than just a fancy phrase -- it's a human emotion that can cause some fatal societal damage.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:12 | 1416951 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

Did he sign a bill to strenghthen the community reinvestment act?  Depends on what your definition of pen is.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:10 | 1416953 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

If this ever passed it would solidify the independent majority against Barry Soetoro.

Moral hazard has to stop.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:10 | 1416955 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

Ignoring for a moment the stellar example this would set for those few remaining suckers who bother to live up to the obligations they assumed when they undertook their loans, think of the message this would send to the suppliers of capital (savers & investors both here and abroad): the contracts that are designed to give you some confidence that you are making an investment and not merely spreading your wealth around are not worth the paper upon which they are written.

We saw this with the GM & Chrysler bond indentures, and this will be yet another step along the way to outright expropriation, which is why it is increasingly likely the US will be locked out of international capital markets if ideas like this continue to gain traction.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 20:07 | 1417411 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

Fuck that.  You can't start talking about contracts now. Without the government bailout forced on the tax payers on the receiving end of these contracts, all the businesses and people who didn't loose everything when AIG should have blown up and everyones MBS backed retirements would be bankrupt.  There is no moral highground.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 23:07 | 1417777 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

You are simply defining moral hazard by example.

It's now only a matter of degree, and won't be serious until it's your house, your mom's house, or (even more outrageous) your neighbor's house.

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 06:44 | 1418109 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

So, the system's fucked and broken, at the expense of everyone who works for a living, and you're defending current contracts?  What a fucking tool.

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 22:22 | 1420691 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

I'm agreeing with you, bone-head.   Get off the rage bandwagon and get a grip.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 11:01 | 1422538 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Funny stuff!

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:16 | 1416961 belogical
belogical's picture

here's another idea, LET THE BANKS FAIL.

That would encourage all to be wise about money and keep people from building systems that have transfer payments from one group to another just based on their political power. LET PEOPLE EARN THEIR WAY. If you must have SS, do not have healthcare as part of it and do not have any public pensions at all, everyone is equal. you want more save.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:54 | 1417018 sitenine
sitenine's picture

"LET THE BANKS FAIL"

Agree!

Interestingly, this is actually what's being suggested here. If banks are marking to unicorn, and then write down the principal, the unicorn eggs hatch into trolls that must be marked at the write down amount. Or am I missing something?

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 19:24 | 1417312 unununium
unununium's picture

Bob Schiller was asked this morning on Bloomberg what needed to be done to get the housing market going again.

You guessed it, he did NOT say "let the banks fail."  What he said, hell if I can remember.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:13 | 1416964 æther
æther's picture

Scary.  The way the gov changes the rules after the fact, I wouldn't want them giving me money.

 

I'm sorry aether, you may not paint your house blue, see clause 4629 section 23 sub paragraph 87821 line 9 word 12 appendix AQJT of the "Principle and Interest Situation SolutiON for Taxpayers Act" aka the P.I.S.S ON. Taxpayers Act.

 

Oh, and you need to mow every day with a mower no smaller than 420" wide while filing this form about your water quality.

 

Once you accept money from someone, _they own you_

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:17 | 1416971 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

BTW, that needs to be a push-mower ... Power mowers pollute and use valuable resources.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:27 | 1416972 hambone
hambone's picture

If you don't like Clinton's speech...you really won't like Obama's reality (not a D or R...just more stupid politicians)

http://www.fundmymutualfund.com/2011/06/new-program-50000-in-fellow-taxpayer.html

Thursday, June 30, 2011
New Program: $50,000 in Fellow Taxpayer Money if You Don't Pay Your Mortgage AND (Preferably) Don't Have a Job
Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:50 | 1417051 JohnG
JohnG's picture

Damn rat bastards.  Fuck that.

All these "mortgage mod" programs piss me off to no end.

I paid cold hard CASH for my place.  Can I get them to just hand me a damn check? No fucking way.

What the fuck is next?  Amerika is getting downright scary.

 

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:21 | 1416973 ArkansasAngie
ArkansasAngie's picture

Not with my dad gum money. No more bailouts.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:47 | 1417055 Nathan Muir
Nathan Muir's picture

Preach on Angie.  Never going to happen so don't worry too much.  This would be the mother load of moral hazard and spark massive defaults across the nation.  I'm a bit surprised a guy as bright as Bill would even suggest it.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 23:10 | 1417781 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Who would have thought 10 years ago that some of the shenanigans we've already seen would have come to pass?   Never say never.

Rule of law, sanctity of contracts, admitted felons roaming Wall Street -- shall I go on?

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:21 | 1416974 chunkylover42
chunkylover42's picture

half credit for at least trying to direct the bailout in the right direction instead of at the bankers.

minus a million points for suggesting yet another bailout.

somebody add up his score for me.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:32 | 1416992 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Al Hunt screwed up the quote. What Clinton really said was, "I like Broad Principle. More engaged while lying down."

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:32 | 1417002 Djirk
Djirk's picture

I agree with Billie on this one...at least the banks should start an orderly work out on deliquent loans. The banks will eat shit but it will free consumer cash flow to get the economy going. Not to mention reward savers and get capital back to work.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:44 | 1417040 Nathan Muir
Nathan Muir's picture

Are you serious?  Show me mass forgiveness of underwater loans and I'll show you 25 million defaults overnight.  So shit, I guess I support it too.  Anything to collapse this ponzi at this point. 

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:36 | 1417005 Piranhanoia
Piranhanoia's picture

Just show us one legal mortgage recorded in every county recorders office in the nation. Can't find even one?   But you still want people to pay for something they don't owe anything on?   That is called fraud.  That what you want Mr. President?

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 23:23 | 1417811 owensdrillin
owensdrillin's picture

That's a bunch of bullshit. People signed up for a mortgage when everything was going up and then try to hide behind a robosigner. No different than buying a stock you think is going to go up and then try to say someone witnessed your check that wasn't legit when it tanks.

The whole system is bullshit and the people that are underwater, fuck them and the people that want to bail them out. How about letting every loser out there just fucking lose all their shit. I paid all along and don't want to pay for my neighbour who spent every fucking dime he ever made.

Funny how an economy will rebound once all the losers are out of the game.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:33 | 1417006 candyman
candyman's picture

Hey, I want in on this too. I haven't participated in any of these Gvt give aways. Maybe I should start by

buying the book written by that clown that describes all the free stuff given away free in Washington. I

remember that girl said Obama was going to pay all her bills. I feel great today. 

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:39 | 1417017 trillion_dollar...
trillion_dollar_deficit's picture

Obamanomics = everything operates in a vacuum

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:44 | 1417023 Downtoolong
Downtoolong's picture

Recall Whitewater and two political yuppies, Bill and Hillary Clinton, who apparently believed that all real estate investments typically yielded returns of 2,000-3,000% per year. They saw nothing unusual about getting a $100,000 return on a $5,000 investment in six months. At least Bill now seems to be a little more able to assess reality in the real estate market; which is to realize that, thanks to banksters practicing Lies In Lending, real estate will now follow the path of other major asset markets where the concept of free and fair competition to set pricing will also become fantasy.  

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 18:31 | 1417173 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Don't forget Hillary's amazing success in cattle futures.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:43 | 1417036 Ying-Yang
Ying-Yang's picture

Jubilee, Oh Jubilee
Hallelujah, we've been set free
Jubilee, Oh Jubilee
Sing your song of liberty

Everything that's been taken away from the Chosen of the King
In this time of celebration, you can reclaim everything
This is your season, this is your day, don't let this moment pass away
Make your choice, choose to rejoice, let the celebration start today

This the year of Jubilee He will set the captive free
Take back from the enemy, and will restore
All the years and all the freedom, this is restoration season
Celebrate you have a reason to rejoice.

(Snark)

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 18:00 | 1417080 Stax Edwards
Stax Edwards's picture

Most of the current batch of delinquencies are strategic anyway. The people who had no business buying the houses have mostly all been relieved of their homes already.  Why pay on a house a couple hundred k underwater when you can buy the one across the street cash and forget about having a mortgage.  If you live in state with strong homestead law, so long as it is your primary residence it cannot be attacked by creditors.  Oh, tell me the story about our moral obligation to the ones who caused this mess.  You bet, give them taxpayer money because they are underwater, but to a non-elite or non-corporation, oh the tyranny.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:57 | 1417084 roymunnson
roymunnson's picture

"Mark to Unicorn"

 

Awesome

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 17:59 | 1417091 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

this is pretty negative toward bilary's old man.  for pete's sake, he was smart enuf to preside over the repeal of the glass-steagall act, wasn't he?

with this week's VW full of clowns, who'll pop outa there, next?   

 

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 18:01 | 1417098 Hacksaw
Hacksaw's picture

You can't believe what Bill says, if his lips are moving he's telling a lie. He's number one on my ass kicking list, just ahead of Beck.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 19:06 | 1417261 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

When it comes there will be people in front of Beck.  Just sayin'  There will not be even skid marks in front of willie.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 19:08 | 1417274 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

Because we all know just how well BushCo repaired the damage done by Clinton.  Slick Willy might have screwed Monica but it was after he left office that the national pooch was screwed by the ultimate necrophiliac politicians.  (Meaning they had to kill the pooch ((us)) before they could even get a boner).

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 18:16 | 1417137 abemko
abemko's picture

Moral hazard to the masses - what a crock! A bunch of poor slobs generally who will never again in their lifetime have access to those lines of credit given by the banksters who screwed everyone including (for a while) themselves. And you're worried about moral hazard to the masses. What are you smoking? And then the requirement that assets get marked to market and, yes some of the biggest banking assholes collapse - terrible idea? 7 billion people can't restart the economy if the banks go down - right? I thought this was the iconoclastic rebellious Zerohedge - you sound more like Paulson - if you don't bailout the banks you'll get economic collapse - or in this case, if you bailout the public by recognizing market values, you'll get economic collapse. No you won't, you'll get a new banking system which may finally contribute rather than manipulate and extort the real economy.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 18:32 | 1417167 Stax Edwards
Stax Edwards's picture

+1 McMansion

We could all move past this BS mispricing of everything under the sun and go back to being productive again.  Oh, lets throw some people in the pokey while we are at it.  I would love to see a lot of this fraud labeled as such and those responsible get some quality time behind bars.  I know I am a dreamer, but think of what it would do for this country psychologically if justice were finally served rather than money printed.  Let them fail like they should have 5 years ago.

 

 

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 18:57 | 1417225 steveo
steveo's picture

F the banks, punish them, no one at a bank or brokerage can work at the "new ones" let them all crash.   Former workers get retrained in factory work building solar panels, all of them.  

New banks are created from scratch, holding pretty good loans.   The bad loans go to a bad bank or three, where restructuring occurs and expected losses occur.  We the taxpayer backstop that, which is better than handing more trillions to bank/brokers.

 

The restore the constitution, and the rule of law.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 18:29 | 1417159 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

How is it that writing off the debt and starting over through bankruptcy is never mentioned? Oh, I remember. None of these politicians actually ran or run a business.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 18:31 | 1417165 granolageek
granolageek's picture

OK, no write downs. How about "One foreclosure,  one trader dangling from a lamppost?"

 

Note, trader, not banker.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 18:31 | 1417166 P-K4
P-K4's picture

I like Bill a lot more ever since Hillary got him that lobotomy for XMas.

"Mark Halperin for House Minority Leader in 2012"

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 23:17 | 1417794 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Nah.  His immediate and "sincere" apology disqualified him on the spot.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 18:48 | 1417196 dolly madison
dolly madison's picture

I suspect this kind of talk might be related to a recent court case, where it was determined that banks could not foreclose on properties without the proper paperwork.  That means many homeowners will just get to live in the houses free since the banks can't foreclose on them.  So, talking those people into signing new loan papers for lower principal amounts might allow the banks to get the paperwork right this time and not lose 100% of the home value.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 19:04 | 1417270 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

You may wish to read a bit more Dolly.  it just means banks must use the courts to collect not a foreclosure process.  They still have your signature on the note stating you owe the money to them..

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 19:24 | 1417320 unununium
unununium's picture

Uh, has anyone seen a single properly assigned note from post-2002?

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 20:26 | 1417448 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

You still signed the note, the money is owed..  Is it a giant legal clusterfuck of course, but free houses no..

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 18:48 | 1417207 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

"And confirming that he still has no clue how anything in the ponzi system works, he added: "You lift not only an economic, but a psychological burden off of the homeowners and the banks,” he said. “And we’re free to start lending again, we’re free to engage in normal economic activity."

 

It is easy to propose something that you know is tantamount to a one liner at a bankers roast when it has absolutely no chance of becoming even remotely possible.  And he can also risk appearing not to have a clue about what is going on when there is a real political dogfight coming up in 7 months and all that matters is that the democrats position themselves as being of the little people even if that requires an entire nation to suspend disbelief.  He would suck Barry O's dick on network TV if that got the dems a few points ahead in the polls. 

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 18:52 | 1417208 steveo
steveo's picture

Yeah, and what about me, who managed assets responsibly.   I guess it does matter if they piss us guys off more, since we are already fully pissed

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 19:02 | 1417264 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

Steveo, do not feel like the lone ranger, I was also responsible, saw the crash coming and warned my renter neighbors not to buy because they would lose everything, they did anyway, bought right at the peak late 2006.  I had looked at a house priced 204k in 2007 and said NO WAY, call me when it is 150k, and by April 2008 it was 119.9k so I did buy AFTER the prices dropped and all those others lost everything.

But, this was not enough to save my assets, the price still dropped, and dropped, one month ago a guy (21 Y.O.) bought an identical unit for 65k.  He put 5k down and mortgaged 60k  @ 4.125% with monthly payments of 290, mine were 958 per month.  Those places rent for about 800.

Was I mad?  Of course I was for a while, am I mad at that guy for getting a better deal?  No way, I do not resent the fortunes of others, life would just be endless, tedious, boring, and hell if all one thought about is how badly you got got screwed while others around you hit the lottery.  What does still piss me off is when I mailed the keys back to the bank they foreclosed, but two years later have still not sold the place, and now I am told the foreclosure is cancelled making me responsible for the house, yet if I try to rent it out to offset some of that they can reactivate the foreclosure on any day.  There should be a law that banks cannot hold REO's longer than 180 days.  360 at most.  Sold as is by deadline or they automatically relinquish any claim to the property. 

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 19:10 | 1417273 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

"There should be a law that banks cannot hold REO's longer than 180 days.  360 at most.  Sold as is by deadline or they automatically relinquish any claim to the property."

 

Good idea!

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 23:20 | 1417805 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

Yes, they are just jerking me around and I am in legal limbo.  And millions like me are as well, millions more will be, in the interim millions of houses will have to be destroyed because of lack of maintenance.  Mine cannot be because it was a zero lot line single family, in other words a duplex townhouse. 

The waste is unimaginable, tens of millions of us live in substandard housing, tens of millions more in government funded low income rentals, and yet the market rules and it has an edict that says this house is worth what it was appraised at in 2005 or 6 or 7, and it cannot ever be appraised for less, because to do so would mean that our rulers are wrong, they are bulldozing mansions that would house 20 people just because of banking rules and accounting rules that say that is the only way to take the loss.  I am so disgusted I can't express it.  

I will not be in legal limbo long, soon they will pass a law that says you cannot discharge mortgage debt or any related debts under bankruptcy, that is the law in most of the EU, and by the way they also have variable rates on 90+% of mortgages. 

A write down has to happen.  People can bitch at Clinton all they want but until mortgages are written down to a rational market price at a current interest rate we get NOWHERE!  Banks will not volunteer to do this, they have to be made to do this, and it is not just here it is international.  Spain is next on the contagion list with a million vacant houses and millions more on the market, banks pretending all is well, unemployment 20% youth unemployment over 50%, no end in sight, how well is that going to work out? 

The bubble of the BushCo has to be lanced, it will hurt, but if we do not do it now the poison will spread.  It will amount to a jubilee.  A total reset of all debt, all currency, all trade, but it has to be because nothing in accounting or government or business makes any sense today and it gets worse every day.  Either do it or there is animal warfare which with all the kilotons of nukes we now have means we all die.  Fix it or die, no other choices.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 18:50 | 1417218 Medea
Medea's picture

Moral hazard. Now that's funny.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 18:58 | 1417227 Star-Gazer
Star-Gazer's picture

Slimebag!

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 18:58 | 1417231 dwilso39
dwilso39's picture

Gotta hand it slick with this "plan", he know are how wreck and economy worst/faster that he did that dress.

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