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Snowed In: A Photo Journey Across A Paralyzed Europe
Traveling to Europe? Not so fast. Most airports in western and central Europe are at best open on an intermittent basis, and at worst completely shut down, with the UK taking the brunt of the storm. Disruptions in traffic continue for a fourth day as travellers across the continent are paralyzed and scrambling to find way to get home, with just 4 days until Christmas. For all those reading Zero Hedge from some airport terminal, our condolences. As always, nothing conveys the story as well as a few simple pictures: we have compiled a representative sample of snapshots from across Europe to show just why all those hoping for a strong holiday retail season in Europe will be very disappointed.
(photo credit AP, Reuters, EPA)
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Al Gore is probably hiding out in the tropics pretending global warming is real.
I thought you guys were calling it "climate change" these days?
They have to say 'climate change' now, that covers all bases no matter what and gives them an excuse to point at ANY weather condition and yell 'SEE! We're right'! Nevermind none of it is right, their data is proven a manipulated fraud 'Copenhagen' and theyre really just Nazis who seek to control you. End of 'man-made climate change' nonsense debate.
+1
The irrefutable argument: temp gets colder => global warming; temp gets warmer => global warming; strange weather => global warming.
Substitute "climate change" where necessary.
If you disagree, you're a racist
Amazing that there can be such circular thinking amongst a group whose complicitors consider themselves so "enlightened". Arrogant academics who are blinded by their own pride. "Deceived" is a more accurate term to describe them!
Well put. That can also be applied to the academics leading our monetary system. Must be a contagion floating around the Universities.
Oh, no! The Cancun/Copenhagen/Kyoto weenies who have all been duped into believing in global warming have taken over ZH!! These comments would make Lardass Gore have an orgasm. People, get a glove and get in the game. You are being taken for a ride. "Glbal warming" (oh, excuse me, I think it is now "climate change" since that covers more bases) is nothing but an elite scam to implement a worldwide tax to fund world government.
Scientific thinking: you can't really prove that global warming is happening because there are a gazillion variables to account for.
What we do know is this: the more co2 you have in an atmosphere, the more it's prone to heat retention.
http://www.espere.net/Unitedkingdom/water/uk_watexpgreenhouse.htm
In our own atmosphere, we are pumping millions of pounds of CO2 and cutting down carbon-sinking forests.
The next logical step is yours to make.
Absolutely!! You are correctly... HOWEVER, I noticed you didnt discuss how much affect it has???
The biggest lesson we are learning currently is the large affects that sunspots have on weather. Much larger in fact than CO2 could ever produce. Also, you will not hear the media talk allot about this either because solar cycle 24 estimates are continuing to be revised down, and the long term implications are already becoming quite clear. In fact, NASA earlier this year put out warnings that the sun flares would about to "explode in size". It went the opposite way...
In short, if you think the weather is bad now, just wait until next year, and the following.. Longer (and harsher) winters followed by shorter summers will be the normal if the sun activies continue. This is not unusual for history, but the way. We have recorded history in fact of ice festivals on the UK Thames river, which would be unheard of today. At least for now...
The sun does indeed trump everything, but that doesn't mean we can dismiss the effect of greenhouse gases. Quite the opposite, actually.
2010 looks to end up as the hottest year on record and it comes on the heels of an usually deep and prolonged solar minimum. Since global warming is asserting itself while the sun's power is diminished...like you said, just wait to see what comes as the sun cycles towards the next solar maximum.
Right, we are so screwed.
http://blog.ltc.arizona.edu/azmasternaturalist/Sunspot%20cycle.JPG
you're hilarious, you have absolutely no knowledge on this subject whatsoever.
"Scientifically thinking", you have it ass-backwards.
The more heat you have in our atmosphere, the more CO2 and CH4 you have in your atmosphere. This is because CO2 and CH4 are the result of organic processes, which increase with temperature (we are far from the maximum temperature to support the maximum biomass; IOW the world could be much warmer and would support much more life as a result).
FYI, CO2 is 0.039% of the atmosphere. Of that 0.039%, humans have contributed 0.03%, which is by any rational basis an obviously a completely statistically insignificant portion.
FYI, for some reason the most powerful "greenhouse gas" (water vapor) is not typically included as an atmospheric constituent.
FYI water vapor concentrations are directly related to solar activity.
FYI back in the 1970's, 'global cooling' or a 'new ice age' was the alarmist's call.
FYI the biggest proponents of carbon credit trading to save us from AGW is Goldman Sachs and JPM.
Wake up please.
.
Well, the screen name works, anyway.
Dude you are a big brother mouthpiece and master at mind control illusionary rhetoric. Take that shite you said about a gazillion variable. First brainus deadus americus manus, u need to learn how to count before we can hold an educated discussion, but that was a brilliant attempt at alluding to scientific experimental procedure. In a truely definitive scientifically conducted experiment in chemistry, you cannot have more than one variable or you flunk your high school chem lab assignment. Got it? That means all this crap about CO2 being the cause for warming is just that crap. You cannot have 400 variables moving around during any computer simulation and expect to isolate one variable's behavior or proclivity to influence global average temperature.
But if you hold a blowtorch next to a marble and put a thermometer on the marble and you change the oxygen/acetyline flow, the marble sure changes temperature. So since we have no sunspots any more for last 3 years, the fookin' earth marble has cooled off a bit mate.
Got it numnutski?
The Jewish/Russian Mafia has taken over the USA. All Bush's cabinet was Jewish. Hollywood is Jewish Mafia controlled. Banks are Jewish Mafia controlled. Universities back East are Jewish Mafia controlled. FBI, CIA, NSA, DEA, DHS, EPA, FDA, FCC, and Treasury are all Jew Mafia controlled.
Mayer Lansky Jew Mob Boss ran america, not the Sicialian Mafia folks.
We are so f**ked its not funny and all the crazy bitches that had babies in a world run by the Mafia are Mafia Dona Pigs who only care about what goes in and what comes out of their little fat asses.
Having babies around Mafia like smokin' cigarettes in gunpowder factory!
Now repeat after me: this is my rifle this is my gun, this one's fer mafia, this one's for cun(t).
Ben Burnyankee say: "We wacked Jesus & JFK for Bank Bustin' and walked, and have a 40 foot container of Gringo Bar-B-Q sauce"
Read Best Bank Book "None Dare Call It Conspiracy":
www.filefactory.com/file/b422gc9/n/ndcic.pdf
Don't forget, global warming also caused the Giants to blow a 21-point lead in the fourth quarter.
And global warming killed the Kennedys ... or was that Al Quaeda .... No, wait ... Global Warming caused Al Quaeda ... or was it Al Quaeda that caused Global Warming ... Arghhh!
+1. Screw the uninformed junks.
Close. If you disagree with any of their positions, you are either racist, a homophobe, unintelligent, or some combination of the three.
Global Warming provides the all-weather tires for the vehicle of global statism.
This is true.
The climate debate ended for me, a liberal, when they solved it with cap and trade.
I'd rather see temps rise 20 degrees and all of the baby seals die than to be a victim of that scam.
I hope people didnt junk your statement about severe weather. I think it is a simplisitic view for people to think a 1 degree temp rise means a 1 degree temp rise throughout the globe. I wish more serious people would come to the discussion.
You know what I wish? I wish the people who are claiming that there are significant temperature changes going on due to human activity would openly share their data and data models with the world. If this is an issue that will affect us all, who gains an advantage by hiding their data and models? I for one would review their models, and I'm sure thousands of other programmers would as well. They are running a scam. The scam probably has a base in truth, but they have clearly bent the truth nearly if not past the breaking point.
I agree completely. What I dislike about these discussion is the lack of data. People are called this and that out of emotion. Please present some data! Is the world warming? Is it cooling? not sure. I do know that some posters dont care about data and would rather just call people names.
I know some people wish to use the data to actively control fellow humans. I don't need to call them names, history has taken care of that for me.
This is all a scam to "justify" implementing the first worldwide tax to be administered by the UN and used to fund world government.
Where is all your data on 33 Liberty's trading activities? Where is all your data on JPM's short physical metals position? Nice to see you're rather hypocritical.
Next you're going to say that becuase there has been no mention of the hole in the ozone in the news, means that the hole is no longer there.
? huh?
There is no spoon.
LMAO!
The "ozone hole" isn't there -- as of Nov. 19th, as per NASA:
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2000/ast12dec_1/
Way to keep up there, first!
LMAO!!
IN THE FACE!!
The data is shared on academic sites worldwide. The IPCC published their big report and the supporting data, all of which is continuously updated.
So...maybe the problem is you want to be spoon-fed information? The truth is out there.
As for the question of the world warming vs. cooling, the emphatic answer is WARMING. Unless you take Rush Limbaugh as an expert on climate science...he says it cooling. If you value peer-reviewed science over political commentary, the conclusion that humans are driving climate change is inescapable.
Not that facts & data matter to most of the posters here on ZH. :-)
"Peer review" doesn't mean a heck of a lot when only one side of the debate is presented -- did you not pay ATTENTION when Climategate hit the web?
Typical, a guy makes a reasoned statement and gets junked. Global warming may be a hoax to most of you retards, but it's not a hoax to to the world's largest corporations, all of which are planning accordingly for the future rise in global temperature. If you goofballs think that the uber-powerful scientific and environmental communities (snark) have somehow scammed the feeble and powerless energy corporations into agreeing with them, well good luck with that theory.
Seriously thank you.
As I said above. If you disagree with the liberal position, you are either racist, a homophobe, unintelligent, or some combination of the three.
Climate change is the reason, and the means, for the redistribution of wealth. It is the new Socialism.
As I said above. If you disagree with the liberal position, you are either racist, a homophobe, unintelligent, or some combination of the three.
Climate change is the reason, and the means, for the redistribution of wealth. It is the new Socialism.
Yeah, well, the facts about things like receding glaciers, which it turns out have revealed roads, forests, silver mines, etc that could only have been there if there had been a previous history of certain Alps not having a glacier, tend to turn me off to the settled science of climate change. Just didn't drink enough Koolaid, I guess.
Sorry TM, but the AGW emperor really does not have any clothes. Time to find another religion. I hear the Bernank is taking applications for useful idiots who will shill his miraculous abilities to heal the economy bringing joy to all.
Sorry TM, but the AGW emperor really does not have any clothes. Time to find another religion. I hear the Bernank is taking applications for useful idiots who will shill his miraculous abilities to heal the economy bringing joy to all.
yea and TM u want to fuking what mate? you wanna fuking cool off the earth by snuffing humans or at least humans' activity.
DUDE YOU ARE THE FUKING MAFIA FOR SURE AS SNUFFING HUMANS OR THEIR LIVELYHOOD TO SAVE YOUR FAT ASS FROM DYING QUICKER IS LIKE TRYING TO KILL ALL THE MAFIA WHEN ALL THE PIGS AND POLITICIANS AND BANKERS ARE THE FUKING MAFIA.
GO FUCK YOURSELF AND YOUR WIFE AND DAUGHTER SIMULTANEOUSLY AND I HOPE YOU SPILL YOUR FUKIN STARBUCKS IN YOUR FUKIN NSA KEYBOARD AND IT RUNS ONTO THE VAX MINI NEXT TO YOUR DESK IN FORT MEADE.
EAT ME ASSHILE BEEEEEATCH!
The Jewish/Russian Mafia has taken over the USA. All Bush's cabinet was Jewish. Hollywood is Jewish Mafia controlled. Banks are Jewish Mafia controlled. Universities back East are Jewish Mafia controlled. FBI, CIA, NSA, DEA, DHS, EPA, FDA, FCC, and Treasury are all Jew Mafia controlled.
Mayer Lansky Jew Mob Boss ran america, not the Sicialian Mafia folks.
We are so f**ked its not funny and all the crazy bitches that had babies in a world run by the Mafia are Mafia Dona Pigs who only care about what goes in and what comes out of their little fat asses.
Having babies around Mafia like smokin' cigarettes in gunpowder factory!
Now repeat after me: this is my rifle this is my gun, this one's fer mafia, this one's for cun(t).
Ben Burnyankee say: "We wacked Jesus & JFK for Bank Bustin' and walked, and have a 40 foot container of Gringo Bar-B-Q sauce"
Read Best Bank Book "None Dare Call It Conspiracy":
www.filefactory.com/file/b422gc9/n/ndcic.pdf
Agree to some extent, but what good are a few data points within complex systems, to a pimple, on a flea, on a dog's ass? Could it be the wrong set of data? Could it be tainted by faulty instruments. Has the environment around those instruments been modified (paradise>parking lot)? Should we be studying the sun more, and the temps less?
For those not inclined to look at the data....
We know climate changes. We know that nature is often harsh and not always bountiful. Would we not be better off in assuming lean times are always looming, and preparing accordingly? Nature simply demands thrift. Human nature suggest that this is a scheme to reward those who are unwilling/unable to put forth the effort to prepare.
Dr No;
We have a study conducted by Carleton Univ. in Ottawa which goes back thru 1000 years of ocean sediments which washed off the Coast range in B.C.
They clearly show the past records; and now point to our entering a 50 year or so period of global cooling. It would seem the Gulfstream (now petering out off the Carolinas instead of warming the UK/Western Europe) agrees with the fossil record.
If you send a working mail address to: "intransigent at hushmail dot com" we will send the Carleton U. research summary.
Best Xmas wishes...
When the 'data' was shown at Copenhagen, it proved to be a bunch of manipulated massaged BS, and thats the best data they had.
That's right, and with climategate coming weeks before the meeting the last nail should have been pounded into the coffin, but these guys are relentless in pursuing manbearpig.
You rang?
don't believe the models. believe the observed, verified field data. for a summary read Lovelock's latest book.
much of the community is powerplay and personal enrichment.
but there is ecological truth there as well.
and even if you don't believe in climate change, somebody feel free to tell me why the other 8 planetary boundaries are imaginary, or won't eventually mean severe pain.
www.nature.com/news/specials/planetaryboundaries/index.html
The ecological dark is already descending, and with it a buttload of hurt.
And the beauty is nature has pretty much hard-wired humans to self destruct in this manner anyhow. Why on earth people feel that "hurting the planet" is somehow separate to hurting ourselves is anybody's guess.
It's all one big organism. We can mess it up all we like, or take care of it all we like, either way we are nature and nature is us......our fate is already set in stone. Just a matter of playing out the game for the heck of it all really.
Absolutely.
There's plenty of weather data available in the public sphere. I've done my own analysis on it without a problem (just as an amatuer for my own benefit). Can you point to someone in particular that isn't sharing their data? I would expect it to be freely shared between researchers but haven't seen any indication it isn't being, yet.
Edit: Just found indication that they leaked the actual code (sorry I'm that far behind). I'm going to try and find it. Everything I've heard so far doesn't indicate a real problem but I'd like to see the code itself. Some around here make me challenge myself. But one man's 'creating data' is another's LOCF (last observation carried forward).
Are you kidding us? Google 'Climategate'....It's like you're everywhere, Cass. You and Santa Claus.
Love the profile name. Did you ever become a vet? Lol.
People who junked me: Have you ever heard of uncertainty analysis? Measurement capability? Variation? mental infants.
The people that junked you only did so based on their political beliefs. They will whine that the evidence is not there, yet get on a soap box and proclaim all the conspiracy theories of the Fed.
I junked you because you're neglecting to consider the error range of the measurement systems being used, and the fact that climate changes that are within mearurement error are being claimed as significant trends.
Did you look at any of the statistical models that were in the leaked data?
Harold Lewis is Emeritus Professor of Physics at the University of California, Santa Barbara. Here is his letter of resignation to Curtis G. Callan Jr, Princeton University, President of the American Physical Society.
Dear Curt:
When I first joined the American Physical Society sixty-seven years ago it was much smaller, much gentler, and as yet uncorrupted by the money flood (a threat against which Dwight Eisenhower warned a half-century ago). Indeed, the choice of physics as a profession was then a guarantor of a life of poverty and abstinence—it was World War II that changed all that. The prospect of worldly gain drove few physicists. As recently as thirty-five years ago, when I chaired the first APS study of a contentious social/scientific issue, The Reactor Safety Study, though there were zealots aplenty on the outside there was no hint of inordinate pressure on us as physicists. We were therefore able to produce what I believe was and is an honest appraisal of the situation at that time. We were further enabled by the presence of an oversight committee consisting of Pief Panofsky, Vicki Weisskopf, and Hans Bethe, all towering physicists beyond reproach. I was proud of what we did in a charged atmosphere. In the end the oversight committee, in its report to the APS President, noted the complete independence in which we did the job, and predicted that the report would be attacked from both sides. What greater tribute could there be?
How different it is now. The giants no longer walk the earth, and the money flood has become the raison d’être of much physics research, the vital sustenance of much more, and it provides the support for untold numbers of professional jobs. For reasons that will soon become clear my former pride at being an APS Fellow all these years has been turned into shame, and I am forced, with no pleasure at all, to offer you my resignation from the Society.
It is of course, the global warming scam, with the (literally) trillions of dollars driving it, that has corrupted so many scientists, and has carried APS before it like a rogue wave. It is the greatest and most successful pseudoscientific fraud I have seen in my long life as a physicist. Anyone who has the faintest doubt that this is so should force himself to read the ClimateGate documents, which lay it bare. (Montford’s book organizes the facts very well.) I don’t believe that any real physicist, nay scientist, can read that stuff without revulsion. I would almost make that revulsion a definition of the word scientist.
So what has the APS, as an organization, done in the face of this challenge? It has accepted the corruption as the norm, and gone along with it. For example:
1. About a year ago a few of us sent an e-mail on the subject to a fraction of the membership. APS ignored the issues, but the then President immediately launched a hostile investigation of where we got the e-mail addresses. In its better days, APS used to encourage discussion of important issues, and indeed the Constitution cites that as its principal purpose. No more. Everything that has been done in the last year has been designed to silence debate
2. The appallingly tendentious APS statement on Climate Change was apparently written in a hurry by a few people over lunch, and is certainly not representative of the talents of APS members as I have long known them. So a few of us petitioned the Council to reconsider it. One of the outstanding marks of (in)distinction in the Statement was the poison word incontrovertible, which describes few items in physics, certainly not this one. In response APS appointed a secret committee that never met, never troubled to speak to any skeptics, yet endorsed the Statement in its entirety. (They did admit that the tone was a bit strong, but amazingly kept the poison word incontrovertible to describe the evidence, a position supported by no one.) In the end, the Council kept the original statement, word for word, but approved a far longer “explanatory” screed, admitting that there were uncertainties, but brushing them aside to give blanket approval to the original. The original Statement, which still stands as the APS position, also contains what I consider pompous and asinine advice to all world governments, as if the APS were master of the universe. It is not, and I am embarrassed that our leaders seem to think it is. This is not fun and games, these are serious matters involving vast fractions of our national substance, and the reputation of the Society as a scientific society is at stake.
3. In the interim the ClimateGate scandal broke into the news, and the machinations of the principal alarmists were revealed to the world. It was a fraud on a scale I have never seen, and I lack the words to describe its enormity. Effect on the APS position: none. None at all. This is not science; other forces are at work.
4. So a few of us tried to bring science into the act (that is, after all, the alleged and historic purpose of APS), and collected the necessary 200+ signatures to bring to the Council a proposal for a Topical Group on Climate Science, thinking that open discussion of the scientific issues, in the best tradition of physics, would be beneficial to all, and also a contribution to the nation. I might note that it was not easy to collect the signatures, since you denied us the use of the APS membership list. We conformed in every way with the requirements of the APS Constitution, and described in great detail what we had in mind—simply to bring the subject into the open.<
5. To our amazement, Constitution be damned, you declined to accept our petition, but instead used your own control of the mailing list to run a poll on the members’ interest in a TG on Climate and the Environment. You did ask the members if they would sign a petition to form a TG on your yet-to-be-defined subject, but provided no petition, and got lots of affirmative responses. (If you had asked about sex you would have gotten more expressions of interest.) There was of course no such petition or proposal, and you have now dropped the Environment part, so the whole matter is moot. (Any lawyer will tell you that you cannot collect signatures on a vague petition, and then fill in whatever you like.) The entire purpose of this exercise was to avoid your constitutional responsibility to take our petition to the Council.
6. As of now you have formed still another secret and stacked committee to organize your own TG, simply ignoring our lawful petition.
APS management has gamed the problem from the beginning, to suppress serious conversation about the merits of the climate change claims. Do you wonder that I have lost confidence in the organization?
I do feel the need to add one note, and this is conjecture, since it is always risky to discuss other people’s motives. This scheming at APS HQ is so bizarre that there cannot be a simple explanation for it. Some have held that the physicists of today are not as smart as they used to be, but I don’t think that is an issue. I think it is the money, exactly what Eisenhower warned about a half-century ago. There are indeed trillions of dollars involved, to say nothing of the fame and glory (and frequent trips to exotic islands) that go with being a member of the club. Your own Physics Department (of which you are chairman) would lose millions a year if the global warming bubble burst. When Penn State absolved Mike Mann of wrongdoing, and the University of East Anglia did the same for Phil Jones, they cannot have been unaware of the financial penalty for doing otherwise. As the old saying goes, you don’t have to be a weatherman to know which way the wind is blowing. Since I am no philosopher, I’m not going to explore at just which point enlightened self-interest crosses the line into corruption, but a careful reading of the ClimateGate releases makes it clear that this is not an academic question.
I want no part of it, so please accept my resignation. APS no longer represents me, but I hope we are still friends.
Hal
Harold Lewis is Emeritus Professor of Physics, University of California, Santa Barbara, former Chairman; Former member Defense Science Board, chmn of Technology panel; Chairman DSB study on Nuclear Winter; Former member Advisory Committee on Reactor Safeguards; Former member, President’s Nuclear Safety Oversight Committee; Chairman APS study on Nuclear Reactor Safety
Chairman Risk Assessment Review Group; Co-founder and former Chairman of JASON; Former member USAF Scientific Advisory Board; Served in US Navy in WW II; books: Technological Risk (about, surprise, technological risk) and Why Flip a Coin (about decision making)
Hal Lewis is something of a bitter crank.
Nothing ever came of ClimateGate. Not one act of professional malfeasance was hauled out of the shadows. Nothing.
Drag another crank out of the closet why don't you. Won't change anything on the ground. Reality will continue to bite.
Touche....
Psst... dont mention rising ocean acidity, the collapsing phytoplankton count. It only confuses them.
You're probably right. Shouldn't mention the collapse of global fisheries then, nor the destruction of temperate forests by invading insects. Nor I guess that CO2 level predictions are tracking not on the average of climate run suites, but on the worst case scenarios.
Thought with all that off the table it doesn't leave much else to talk about.
Except Taylor Swift, what a slut she turned out to be ...
I wish I could remember a specific ocean researcher's name (not Sylvia Earle). He had really compelling photos of the size of fish being pulled out early this century versus the past few years, i.e., pre- versus post-collapse.
And yet some douchebag still stands next to his trophy catch, a whopper that's a whopping 2/3 or more smaller than what used to swim.
Congrats, you illuminate a good point, Cat. There really is nothing to talk about. This is one of those issues that get you nowhere debating. People only become more entrenched in their existing positions and ridicule one another from opposite sides of the river.
it's like arguing the death penalty (no pun intended)
The collapse of global fisheries? You mean the salmon run that the famous Canadian hippy went ape-shit about; and then they all came back again and made an ass out him? you mean that global fishery? Or do you mean the ones that people fished out; which is about as mysterious and difficult to understand as 2+2=4? And this is supposed to be caused by non-existent global warming? Boy it's a good thing you can make a living dealing in imaginary languages and logical objects that have no relation to reality.
Listen, I really don't mind your being a deluded fuckwit; but you're on the side of evil here. The very slight increase in Atmospheric Co2 that has occured as a result of human activity has caused green plants to grow more vigorously and thereby produced some 6-7% more food globally, than would otherwise be available. Aside from that it has no measurable effect; none. And it is not an adequate excuse to tax and regulate everyone on the planet back to the stone age to satisfy your crack brained agenda. Now, STFU.
CO2 fertilization effects have been investigated and discounted:
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2004/11/co_2-fertilization/
Most food production increase is dependent on application of fossil-fuel based fertilizers and pesticides.
The impacts on radiative forcing of CO2 increase in the atmosphere are quite well documented, for 100 years. The only remaining discussion is how much CO2 increase leads to how much actual temperature increase. That would be nice to know, but it is hard to measure. The answer will be bad.
We're already seeing changes in vegetation extent (on the surface and at altitudes), animal behaviors, sea level, glacier formation and rainfall patterns. The hottest years recorded in modern times have all occurred in the last decade without any measurable changes in solar output or anything else we might reasonably point to.
There is not much to discuss. The science is in, and our prospects are not good. Certainly the prospects for business-as-usual are not good at all. And that really is the problem isn't it?
If none of this intersected with moneyed business interests, it would engender no more discussion than the phylogeny of obscure equatorial insects. But since it does threaten business it gets the full treatment.
That says a lot. That really says it all.
You shouldn't be so snarky about things you know little about. Please post data you are referring to.
Must I hold your hand? Google it for a start? How do you think I educated myself? I never believe anything until I am convinced by data. If you do not think it is important enough to educate yourself by real work, then shut the fuck up.
Harold Lewis is a professor of Physics; you're a Mutt and an ignorant punk; now STFU
Actually you don't know much about me.
I think you work for an oil company or one of the hired PR agencies.
This can go on a while longer, and then it won't. You will lose in the end.
Harold Lewis has no place on the internet. He is far too intelligent.
He is too old.
http://science.nasa.gov/earth-science/big-questions/what-are-the-primary...
You can't bring facts to a discussion with an envirowacko.
"Environmentally retarded" has a nicer ring to it. Just my $0.02.
I will venture to guess that you have no credentials in environmental or climate or space sciences at all of any kind whatsoever.
But do trot them out, if I've guessed wrong.
Since when does someone need credentials to recognize indefensible idiocy when they see it?
You don't need credentials to have an opinion. You need credentials to know what you are talking about.
Right on... call 'em out. They blow smoke.
The "educated" naysayers will argue about the Anthropic origins, they do not dispute that serious changes are happening. I havn't seen one yet here though...
i agree
Don't know about you, but I only do it because sometimes it helps someone get a better grip on the situation we're in. That's something, I suppose. Makes it worth some effort, but not a lot. Now that I've said my peace I guess I need to get back to fixing the Internet.
Rust never sleeps. And that's the problem, isn't it?
Adieu...
Okay, there are no serious changes happening. Now, you've seen it. If some "change" was happening; and it was easily proved that it was not anthropogenic; what did you want to do about it, pray?
Why don't you post curriculum that is required for climate science degree. It's more social science than physical science.
You just made that up.
Yes, that is the root of the problems with social sciences... they're made up.
Sadly enough, he didn't have to make it up.
And you just made that up. Unless you have a history of teaching or research in the field you disparage you should find another target.
I'm suitably qualified to observe the environmentally retarded in action at every level of life, society and government.
Here in the US we bend over backwards to outlaw lightbulbs, to recycle holiday cards (we have an ongoing holiday card recycling drive here in the office as I type - absurd), to layer bureaucracy on top of bureaucracy, and to hamstring American corporations trying to compete on the global stage, all in the name of being hysterically green. As if we have nothing better to do or worry about, and as if a year's worth of environmental/green "progress" here in the US isn't undone by a single day of Chinese industrialism.
The environmentally retarded suffer from a detachment from practical reality, as most self-identified "progressives" do.
Speaking strictly for myself my grasp on reality is actually pretty good. 10 years of college (5 years postgrad including freshwater aquatic research and ecosystem modeling) will do that to you. But thank you for sharing.
Hilarious. Hiding in academia for 10 years (5 years of undergrad?) and you think that somehow translates to an improved grasp on reality. Do you work in the administration?
I am a mechanical and electrical engineer. I currently work for a company developing Internet security devices. When I'm not doing that I build houses, invent interesting machines, and I write fiction that isn't very good but I have fun doing it. I'm also starting an internet company in my spare time.
I have already forgotten more than you will probably ever know.
Don't cap on me because I'm educated and smart. That just looks stupid. Cap on me because I'm annoying. On that account, you have my sympathy.
Being smart and educated doesn't go very far toward distinguishing oneself from the rest of the herd here on ZH. Bragging about it, however, does.
You were saying something about how my education was actually a mark against me. I felt like I needed to balance that out. I suppose there are academics that lack real world experiences. I am not one of those.
Feel better about that now? Or am I tarred and feathered for life?
Have you ever actually tried to get tar off of your skin and out of your hair? It's not that easy...
Then you shouldn't be here, cause only Phd's in economics should post on this blog according to the experts.
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/fed-economist-slams-econ-bloggers
The "ecosystem modelling" gives it all away. Environmental wackos start young, and they only rarely can be de-programmed. Lot's of computer programmers fall for this bullshit; they have virtually no grasp on reality at all; they live in artificial worlds.
Artificial worlds have their place. A lot of interesting work comes out of modelling. Of course it has to be checked against the operational world once in a while, but the power of models is not actually prediction so much as showing us where we need to look for more data. These are called the "forcing variables" and a lot of climate work is dedicated to finding them. But all models provide the same output, even in structural engineering. They tell us what matters most.
An honest question: Given your illustrious educational background, do you think this climate change problem is really as dire as it's presented to be? Is it a problem on a scale of years, decades, centuries or millenia? Is it something the US and Europe can fix on their own? Do you think that now - the midst of a global financial crisis - is the best time to drop everything so that we can try to solve it, at any cost? Try to step out of your own personal universe (i.e. the one in which you're focused on ensuring that you have a job studying ponds) when responding.
Those are good questions.
Scale: There are serious changes already in the pipeline. The full impact will take 30 years to hit us. We will have to endure whatever is coming for perhaps 500 years since that is how long it takes CO2 to leave the atmosphere.
Fixing: The entire human race must be part of any fix, but as a practical matter most of the CO2 emissions come from the developed world, or through our consumption of goods made for us in the undeveloped world. So yes, we're it. I have no faith in technical solutions, but that's just me. I think we have to leave the fossils in the ground or else live with them for 2000 years in the atmosphere. And yes, that is the expected residency time of CO2.
Timing: It is never a good time. When business is booming we don't want to reduce profits. When business is flagging we want to create jobs. For my part, I think profits can suffer a little. We should have addressed the problem when we still had money, resources and time. Now we have none of those. The moment when we might have turned this around seems to have been lost. Perhaps forever. I am not hopeful.
Personal: I have school-aged children of my own. I am very worried for their sake.
Thank you for the opportunity to address serious issues. I hope I gave your questions the attention they deserved. I am only one. But I am one that matters, as do you.
Much appreciated.
I don't how people become this indoctrinated, but unfortunately they do. The actual facts are all available on the internet, of course. There isn't any problem; The maximum temperature change that could possibly be caused by doubling the base co2 in the atmosphere lies between 0.36 and 0..5 degrees C. The alarmist program depends on useless computer models with made up "positive feedbacks" which don't exist. Doubling the base co2 content is commonly used as a discussion point; this has not yet been achieved. Co2 is a trace gas; the latest satelite measurements of re-radiation upwards indicate no measurable "greenhouse effect". It's extremely clear that this is an agenda driven by political goals; the UN hired the useless little university in England to be the climate study center and they hired some junk computer programers, and following on the popular movie by Al Gore, and some completely false propaganda, they've picked up a lot of people who have some kind of emotional need to believe in "bad things"; why exactly, I don't know. It was warmer here, globally, in 900 AD than it is now, then it got cooler, than it got warmer, and none of this has anything to do with CO2; This is not a particularly warm year; as evidence frozen Europe. If you want to find out some rational information look up papers on the internet by Dr. Richard Lindzen, and go to Junkscience.com.
Ah you really are a professional at this. I'm pleased I hooked a live one.
Those are all the usual denialist talking points. Not worth my time really. Anyone with any real interest in the science should spent an afternoon reading here:
http://realclimate.org
The conclusions of the recent IPCC v4 report are illustrative as well. The 20 or so page executive summary is not even as frightening as it might have been.
It really is science. Science is good. The requirement of publishing significant results into peer-reviewed journals is sound. There really isn't a whole lot of science left untouched. What remains is the acceptance that something needs to be done, and how to go about doing it.
10 years of university, and this is best you can come up, quoting another so called authority and presenting the standard ad hominem attacks against those who disagree with a theory that cannot be falsified? Did you ever study logical fallacies, or did you sleep through your self styled 10 years of education. Were you a real scientist, instead of a poorly paid shill, you would not waste our time trying to impress us with your so called credentials.
AGW as primary driving force for global warming has been debunked. Time to find a new job.
"It's extremely clear that this is an agenda driven by political goals; the UN hired the useless little university in England to be the climate study center and they hired some junk computer programers, and following on the popular movie by Al Gore, and some completely false propaganda, they've picked up a lot of people who have some kind of emotional need to believe in "bad things"
So these are the only people, only scientific group, only university, only data group, only science discipline, only evidence set and only logic behind this analysis? And the fact that groups have picked this up or exagerated and twisted aspects to exploit an economic or political agenda is also undeniable proof the environmental phenomenon does not exist? And what about the people who have an "emotional need to believe in [economic] bad things?" Interesting logic. Good work cougar as usual
I think your friend is gone... You do raise a good point, China and India are needed.
By the way, do you have a problem with someone dedicating their life to the study of "whatever"... are you jealous that you couldn't follow your passion? One problem of this country is almost complete lack of respect for anyone that doesnt chase money. Too many fucking MBAs and Lawyers chasing money for nothing fucked this country
graduates chase it cause they graduate into a debt cycle
all the positions with money have to do with the corporatocracy
grants are extremely hard to get, and when you get them there usually a desired result depending on whats its for..
i don't see anyone graduating to just write and publish cause it takes time and money to do so.
its all about money, cause under our system it has to be.
death spiral of academia, yay!
I was lucky, came out with no debt. Then again, I did 20 hrs a week in construction or as a janitor during the last 2 years of undergraduate. Was good enough to have my way paid through grad school though. I then won a Fellowship from U of Chicago that allowed me to do 4 yrs post-doctoral in Europe.
See above.
Wanna be really impressed?...you should see Ben Bernanke's credentials!
I respect individuals and things, not fields of study.
Everything is a field of study to someone. That's what individuals do with things. They study them.
Humanity moves forward slowly on the results of all those fields of study.
Amount of time spent in academia is inversely proportional to one's understanding of reality.
After reading just a few of your comments I can tell very clearly that you are an arrogant prick who derives his self-worth from the number of pieces of paper hanging framed on his basement wall.
Do you self-medicate with alcohol, kiddy porn, illicit drugs, or a combination of all three?
Reality!?
Reality is trading your own nut for a living, reality is walking away from the bull shit. Reality is realizing that the most precious thing you have is your mind. Reality is teaching your kids real values. Reality is learning.
And sometimes arrogance means you do really know more than most.
BTW, I am partial to wine.
Oh, lest I forget. Suprise me, you beggar!
reality is what is happening in 'this' moment. everything else is hearsay.
Reply was to the Coug... check the indents before you fly off the handle again doof.
Hating isn't going to save you.
Time now for my afternoon coffee.
Right....you happen to be a climate scientist reading and posting a blog on finance and economics.
Give me a fucking break, Cass.
How are you hacks paid? By the hour or the post?
No, that's not the way it works. you can play again if you have another quarter.
I think it's working out really well actually.
But the few people who do have excellent credentials in Climate science don't agree with you. How have you managed to avoid finding this out? And as for environmental, or "space science" ?; we'll give you a pass on those !
Something around 2200 scientists worked on the IPCC report.
There are perhaps a half dozen scientists (not all of them even climate scientists) who make the regular lecture circuit talking down the IPPC report.
There are a few score more who pop up now and again to get their hits in.
And of course Viscount Lord Monckton, the trained monkey and pretender to the throne.
It's not really interesting at this level. Let's move on.
my take on this wheather debate is that it might be similar to gold market. although, there are takedowns, attacks (comparison days like these on wheather front) still the trend is up.
with all the industrialization, only the chinese are building 1 million people city every month, smt got to give...dont be fooled by the exception days...after all we all believed amerka was exceptional and look at us...people compare it to USs of A
Yes 'global warming' means you get the most severe cold winters in 300 years...expand that silly hippy liberal mind of yours.
This is what Europe may look like should the Atlantic current shut down.
And this is what Jesus may look like if he was riding a unicorn.
http://s265.photobucket.com/albums/ii217/shaneswank08/paintings%20and%20such/?action=view¤t=JesusUnicornProofWeb.jpg
No that's just a photo of what Jesus would look like if somebody painted him on a plate riding a unicorn.
The Gulf Stream ( Atlantic current ) has stopped.
http://www.thelibertyman.com/gulf_stream.php
Rusty...joking or serious? Not sure that site is a credible source. I'm no expert but there does seem to be current...
http://rads.tudelft.nl/gulfstream/index.shtml
Face facts! Your 'Global Warming' is based on false data, ego, and money. How very Alinski, and convienient, that Global Warming is the answer for everything.
The arctic ice is not melting. Repeat 50 times a day, or until symptoms subside.
Yes... global warming causes global cooling. Its a win/win (or lose/lose depending on your political leaning)
How convenient. Global Warming can also mean Climate Change can also mean Global Cooling.
what it means is the rate and pace of change is accelerating. it's not change that kills you, nor warming or cooling. it's not being able to adapt. that's where we're heading, faster and faster.
Whoever go junked me, you might as well junk the Millennium Ecosystem Assessment and much of Crutzen et. al, Steffen and the work of others in the field.
"Expand that republican mind of yours."
Xibalba, that statement is an oxymoron on a couple of levels.
Don't expect most folks to grasp the idea you are espousing. It doesn't fit into a nice little, black or white soundbite that one of the Wingnut radio hosts can spout over and over again.
Now, global weather extremes may have more to do with the Sun's output, sun spots and/or long term historic cyclical weather patterns than purely carbon emissions, but the Righties will always see ONLY those things that suit their agenda. If a Dem is making note of global warming, they have to oppose it, regardless of an validity. If a Rethug, like Bush throws out mangle sentences using bad facts and data they have to believe it and anyone who disagrees is stoopid. Such is the nature of the black or white mind.
I'm confused. Are you implying that only "Wingnuts" (righties) do this? I think it's very much a two way street.
Nope, not saying just Righties do it. But they have refined the art and in this case and on this topic they do.
Xibalba,
The joke is over. I've made my millions selling lies to idiots like you. Thanks for the riches.
Yours Truly,
Al Gore
Thats right when the religous predictions do not come true immediately modify the religion to fit the facts. Familiar with the Millerites predicting christs return and their modification of their religion. The Met office UK predicted a mild winter this year, your little pointy Dem head must be ready to explode from CD.
The hilarity and inanity of the Global warming / Climate change / oh hell something will happen keep praying to Gaia movement never fails to impress..
Keep moving those goal posts.
You understand that suddenly equating heavy snows with global warming sounds alot like you are just changing your message so that it covers every scenario and you cannot be proven wrong? See attached article telling us snowfalls are a thing of the past in the UK...now we are told huge snowfalls should have been expected.
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/snowfalls-are-now-just-a-thing-of-the-past-724017.html
Mother Nature is punishing us for our sins!
The statists have learned a lot from Pat Robertson.
No, no, no! She hates us for our freedoms.
*snort*
GLOBAL WARMING BITCHZ........
Xibalba,
+1
One of the predicted consequences of "global warming", well posted on ZH during the height of BP spill reporting and discussion of possible effects was an observation of patterns being observed in the mid Atlantic that would tend to disrupt the Gulf Stream's normal course. This observation was said to have implications for the deep cold stream returning south as well.
Have we actually started something big? Ex weatherman says; "Too soon to know." One obsevation does not a trend make.
Give it up already. Even All-Bore's own organization is laying off staff workers. The Chicago Carbon Exchange is shutting down because the idea of carbon credits is ludicrous at best and criminal at worst.
Welcome to the ice age.
Oh, and by the way, any "scientist" who cannot immediately produce reams of data and who shouts down any discussion or questions with words like "denier" is as much of a true scientist as a witch doctor is a true doctor. No science is ever closed to discussion, period. Open your flat-earth medieval mind.
+1
Youtube what the heck are they spraying
Didn't you get the memo, THE SCIENCE IS SETTLED! Since forming conclusions based on observations, without employing the scientific method means it is real.
Global warming is a national security issue, so you must pay carbon taxes to the IMF. </sarc>
Meanwhile, billionaire oilmen and filthy rich coal-burning powerplant operators hire armies of low-paid astroturf wankers to try to make emotional and insulting comments on threads that have nothing to do with 'global warming.' Perhaps they hired Al Gore as well as you.