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Social Security, Illegal Immigration and Ben
It would be correct to say:
“What is good for Social Security is good for America”.
Some of the variables include:
-Rising GDP
-Modest inflation
-Expanding employment (low unemployment)
-Worker productivity
-Innovation
-Rising population
SSA evaluates the prospects for the variables and produces a forecast.
They create three alternative cases. They call them the Intermediate and
the High/Low cost assumptions. That’s a bit murky. A better description
might be:
Intermediate = What we are hoping/assuming will happen.
High Cost = Bad News!
Low Cost = Break out the Champagne!
Now consider how SSA looks at the highly emotive issue of illegal
immigration/undocumented workers. SSA refers to this group in the PC way
as “others”. This from the SSA 2010 report to Congress, page 84.
Note that the “What We’re Expecting” case has illegal immigration at 400,000 per year for the next decade. The “Let’s Party!” case has the average over 500k. Heaven forbid that illegal workers fall to only 200k per year. That would be the “Worst Case”
outcome. Looking at this one has to wonder what would happen if illegal
immigration fell to zero. Clearly if 550k is the good news then zero
must be very bad news.
So it is not always correct that what is good for SSA is good for the
USA. It makes me wonder about those other categories where the interests
appear to line up but actually to do not.
As a mature economy we can only achieve high rates of growth with
significant expansion of debt at every level. Consumers, corporations,
cities, towns, states and of course the Feds all have to borrow and
spend more if we are going to have the growth that SSA (and all other
public and private entitlements) so desperately needs.
Debt = Growth
Growth = Good, therefore,
Debt = Good
Our dependence on illegal immigration to sustain growth is not unlike
our need for debt to fire the engines. But like illegal immigration,
debt/growth has a dark side to it. If you want evidence of that fact
just consider what Bernanke is going to unleash on us. Yes he might
achieve some growth with his QE-2. But what is the real cost for that
growth?
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Yes, but the US Taxpayers spend 18.6 million per day to incarcerate illegals for committing crimes. If you deport them all we could pay double to SS and still come out ahead!
Pray, do tell, how do you deport them all?
Immigration is one of the few issues where I diverge from the ZH consensus (if such a thing exists). If you are opposed to immigration, illegal or otherwise, then it is odd that you would choose to continue living in one of the world's most desirable countries to live in. It's a very popular permanent destination. We've had immigration throughout this country's history. The only thing that changes is the mood towards the newcomers, or the group that is being singled out.
Down, you are right in the fact that we are a nation of immigrants. Controlled immigration is a good thing. In the past, you came to the US, you became and American and obeyed the laws. Those who come here illegally do not obey our laws and no one is forcing them to adopt our ways. This causes two significant problems:
1. A permanent underclass
2. If we give favoritism to those who break the law, why should anyone care? Double standard. Encouraging citizens and non citizens to break the law.
When most of our ancestors came to the US, they were forced to tow the line. That is no longer the case.
Excerpted from:
http://reason.com/archives/2010/04/13/please-dont-let-obama-touch-im
Make no mistake, the Byzantine immigration policy of the US Govt. was put in place to placate Labor Unions and Racists! Instead of drafting a completely new, sane policy, the Govt ALWAYS patches the creaky system already in place.
You deport them one at a time, but you start by making a serious effort to stop the inflow. The wall should have been built long ago. And when you have known illegals of a high profile, you deport them. Start with the President's Aunt and Meg Whitman's former maid. And try looking around Colin Powell's house and asking his gardeners for their papers. Two, maybe more down ... 20 million to go.
You don't deport them all - you just enforce existing law and pull the welfare welcome mat out, and pretty soon word gets out that they must leave. You end up deporting very few, especially if they can't get work.
If existing US immigration law sounds too cruel for your leftist mculti sensibilities, you can always use the laws from any of those countries from which the illegals came.
You are foolishly comparing illegal and legal immigration, and other than arguments about number levels, education levels, and source countries, few on here are disagreeable to legal immigration. It's the illegal immigration that is the problem. Perhaps the mood towards newcomers would change if they stood in line like the rest of those seeking a new life in the US. Perhaps the mood would change if bordertown hospitals weren't shutting down due to the burden of treating illegals for free (and leftists always blame US laws, which they don't want changed so long as it supports their desire - it's the old "pro-choice" attempt to stand nowhere).
But the mood in question is against illegals. I suppose you don't hold theft against anyone - after all, they are *just* breaking the law, right? When someone robs you, you are a paragon of philosophical lefty kum ba ya virtus, and refuse to stand up. Don't miss the point.
deport 'em???!!! that costs money. HELL NO.
Exactly, put them to work so you can make more money :) Let the uneducated tools loose their jobs to lower paid better performing illegals. Then when they b!tch about it tell them to leave if they don't like it.
They called them paddy wagons because there were drunk Irish on their way to the drunk tank - fast forward two generations and it's because the cops are irishmen.
"Pray, do tell, how do you deport them all?"
STEP 1: Finish the border
STEP 2: Build large prison directly on border
STEP 3: Only lock the FRONT door
Are there any other of lifes big questions you would like me to work out for you?
Ok, great plan, good on ya bro.
When are you planning your ribbon cutting ceremony?
(Jackass)
[quote]
MOVING TO MEXICO
Dear President Obama:
I'm planning to move my family and extended family into Mexico for my health, and I would like to ask you to assist me.
We're planning to simply walk across the border from the U.S. into Mexico , and we'll need your help to make a few arrangements.
We plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration quotas and laws.
I'm sure they handle those things the same way you do here. So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Calderon, that I'm on my way over?
Please let him know that I will be expecting the following:
1. Free medical care for my entire family.
2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might need, whether I use them or not.
3. Please print all Mexican government forms in English.
4. I want my grandkids to be taught Spanish by English-speaking (bi-lingual) teachers.
5. Tell their schools they need to include classes on American culture and history.
6. I want my grandkids to see the American flag on one of the flag poles at their school.
7. Please plan to feed my grandkids at school for both breakfast and lunch.
8. I will need a local Mexican driver's license so I can get easy access to government services.
9. I do plan to get a car and drive in Mexico but I don't plan to purchase car insurance, and I probably won't make any special effort to learn local traffic laws.
10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo from their president to leave me alone, please be sure that every patrol car has at least one English-speaking officer.
11. I plan to fly the U.S. flag from my house top, put U. S. flag decals on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any complaints or negative comments from the locals.
12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, or have any labor or tax laws enforced on any business I may start.
13. Please have the president tell all the Mexican people to be extremely nice and never say critical things about me or my family, or about the strain we might place on their economy. [Or, I'll accuse them of "Racism!"
-- Stychokiller]
14. I want to receive free food stamps.
15. Naturally, I'll expect free rent subsidies.
16. I'll need Income tax credits so although I don't pay Mexican Taxes, I'll receive money from the government.
17. Please arrange it so that the Mexican Gov't pays $4,500 to help me buy a new car.
18. Oh yes, I almost forgot, please enroll me free into the Mexican Social Security program so that I'll get a monthly income in retirement.
I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things for all his people who walk over to the U.S. from Mexico . I am sure that President Calderon won't mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely.
Thank you so much for your kind help. You're the man!
[/quote]
Spoken like a true liberal!
Brainless, like a true conservative.
Did your mommy teach you that when you don't like someones perspective you call them names?
"We've had immigration throughout this country's history."
Not for criminals. We want the best for ourselves so we should only let in honest and intelligent immigrants, no matter what their race. I don't see people as their color, just as their contribution. Maybe Mexico will let us send a "white" criminal in exchange for every Mexican one. Wouldn't matter to me, at least it would be fair.
dr - when you choose to distinguish between the folks that respectfully asked to come in the front door (legal immigrants), vs. the criminals that snuck in the back (or overstayed their allowance), then we'll have the beginnings of a discussion. until then, we can simply assume you're just another MSM educated sheeple.
(this weekend, a family member said "even when you conservatives were in power, i didn't see any less council members" when we were talking about limited/smaller government... we're so friggin doomed).
Assume away, brosef.
I guess that my personal attachment to this issue clouds my vision, but I don't believe I ever said that illegal immigration is right or wrong, or more wrong than another method of moving to another place.
I'll take the bait though. I guess that it would be better if everybody applied for a visa first.
Let's see, the reality is, if you apply for a visa, and you get rejected, what are your options? You can stay put or you can come here illegally.
I'm sure there are those who are too afraid to break the laws of a foreign country, and so they remain in their home countries. We remove them from the equation at this point.
However, it would seem that the disincentives for breaking the law are not enough to keep out those not afraid to break foreign laws.
I really try to remove the right or wrong part, because that is too murky. I just shoot for understanding the situation. I think you have to be standing in the shoes of a would be immigrant to understand all of the calculations that go into such a decision.
$2000 to a coyote and only the hope that you mightmake it to your destination without being extorted, killed, or left for dead is not exactly an easy thing to decide to get into.
(as long as we're making distinctions, are you a conservative or a neo-con, because neo-cons are actually statists in republican clothing and they don't conserve much of anything except a stench of hypocrisy)
It's pretty obvious that we should prefer a citizen who is willing and able to go through the immigration process to someone who would scoff at the rules. Unfortunately, it just makes too much sense to scoff. That is my overarching point. We can bicker all day long about the right and wrong of illegal immigration. None of it will stop the tide.
i'm glad you've kept the chatter relevant, sorry for my flip MSM comment. i'm still pretty black and white on this.
when you say you want to remove the right/wrong part of it, i think that pretty much covers where folks-like-me disagree with folks-not-like-me:
regardless its questionable roots, america is currently a sovereign nation with distinct boundries and laws. one of the laws of this (and most any) country is that legal entry is granted by permission. i believe when you break that law, regardless the risk and peril you take to get there, you must be ejected. i also believe when you are rejected after legitimate application, you need to find an alternative plan for your life. i would personally like to relocate to New Zealand, but they will not have me. i respect that.
sure, you could argue that our immigration system is broken - different conversation. i *have* argued that for everyone we deport, that we could easily allow one *legal* applicant in. i have no problem with immigration if the immigrants come here and respect the the history and precepts of our imperialist fore-fathers. and i mean that. they were often brutal, but what has generally come of their conquests is a good and fair people (run by a nasty-ass useless government that is not at all 'of the people').
am i a neo-con? hardly. i believe we should make good laws, and respect them, or abolish them - certainly not dilute and bend them to taste and politics.
try to separate the consequences of behavior from the behavior, and you can be certain to get what we've got today. i'm not impressed, and it doesn't sound you are either.
a great litmus test of a good law is whether or not we respect it or, as you say, scoff at it.
we may disagree on points, but your comments indicate you are hardly a sheeple.
cheers.
Why do I continue living in the US?
Because my people have been here since the 1600s, before the USA even existed.
Because we built, populated, made sacrifices for, and fought and died for this country.
Because, until recently, we actually ran this country that our forefathers built.
The USA is a country built on periodic waves of limited Anglo-European immigration.
Change the composition, number, and most importantly the quality of the immigrants, and you change the country (for the worse).
The biggest conflict in America's future will be over what kind of country the US will become, and whether it makes sense for the US to remain one country (empire).
If we don't reform immigration, which necessarily involves securing the border and deporting tens of millions of hostile third world colonists, then the likelihood of the US disintegrating increases a thousand-fold.
Your nationalist fervor is outmatched only by your massive inability to see beyond your nose.
We could replace you with a Native American in the 1600s and you'd be giving the same speech.
You stated: "Because, until recently, we actually ran this country that our forefathers built."
Who is we? Is we the white privileged ruler class? Good ol' boys club maybe? the crowd from the Good Shepard with Matt Damon? "We have the United States of America, everyone else is just passing through". I call bs friendo.
Steven Colbert said it best: "you don't get your America back, you hold on to it until some one else takes it from you".
That is the true history of our country. Get ready son, in 2050, white people=the minority. Get used to it. Full disclosure, I am Caucasian also.
"The USA is a country built on periodic waves of limited Anglo-European immigration."
If you read some of the other posts on this page, you'll see that immigration policy has had a general trend towards favoring westernized countries in Europe.
This is apparently a good thing for what reason? I guess, like you say, it is all about the "quality of the immigrants'.
I'm sorry, but your reasoning makes it look like all of the arguments you have against immigration are rooted in eugenics.
what's wrong with eugenics? i mean "a nation of actual giants" does have its advantages.
Junked for quoting Colber..really?
Try not to confuse immigration with illegal immigration in the future jackass. It is pretty tough to compete with Bosnians, Hondurans, Mexicans, whothehelleverians when they don't have to follow the same bullshit regulatory rules that we "legal" business owners have to. Once again, jackass.
Blah blah blah.
That's the best you can do in response to my comments?
Anti-White advocates such as yourself are always reduced in the end to mouthing silly key-words such as "eugenics" as if it's sufficient to win the argument.
But then again, you're the one relying on the words of wisdom from that well-known political philosopher, Steven Colbert.
LOL!
Ultimately we'll take back our America, one way or another.
Get used to it, kid.
I was trying to illustrate that an argument based in television and movie knowledge can best an argument that is based on your particular point of view. You stated, “Why do I continue living in the US?
Because my people have been here since the 1600s, before the USA even existed.
Because we built, populated, made sacrifices for, and fought and died for this country.
Because, until recently, we actually ran this country that our forefathers built.
The USA is a country built on periodic waves of limited Anglo-European immigration.
Change the composition, number, and most importantly the quality of the immigrants, and you change the country (for the worse).”
You say this as if it were fact. This is an opinion. The things I said were facts.
downrodeo,
Spoken like a real dope. In our now rigged legal system, the Caucasians cannot not fight on equal footing. If one seeks to protect jobs or property, it will be construed as a "hate crime" by a jewish judge with 3x the punishment. A fair fight will not be tolerated by those in power, so do not chide the one with his hands tied behind his back.
I agree that if a people can't defend what they've built, they deserve to lose it. And as for Israel, don't think it'll be safe there, either.
P.S. I love the bit about "full disclosure, I'm Caucasian"...typical rat.
Take a peek at this article:
http://incogman.net/10/2010/none-dare-call-it-white-genocide/
white genocide huh? what a freakin joke.
So, you've got me all figured out. You think I am for hate crime legislation? You can't commit a crime against a person if you love them, can you? Hate crime laws are a mockery to justice and they only promote discrimination.
Most people with a strong opinion on this issue have probably never spoken to someone who is new to this country. You'd just prefer that they were not here, or that someone who was better educated or could speak more fluent Englishwas in their place. Maybe a systems engineer from Thailand instead of a pepper picker from Guatemala. I say come one, come all. This is a nation of misfits, a nation of all colors and nationalities. We believe in being free.
We need every last man, woman, and child, to stand up together and say, 'no more bullshit from our elected leaders', immigration status be damned.
The real battle is up-down, not left right. Right now, we're playing into the race wars meme beautifully. You say white genocide and I say eugenics. It's a bullshit hamster wheel designed to keep us engaged.
This keeps us distracted while tptb make a mockery of us.
Bullshit. Its a serious issue entirely separate from other political and financial goings on, particularly to those of us having our communities destroyed by invading criminal scum. The "ZOMG U R TEH DUM IZ ALL A DISTRAKSHUN" nonsense is just stupid- most do not want them here outside of leftist ntiwits and the "I'll sell my own mom for a buck" branch of the repubs. Even if the Fed were abolsihed tomorrow and all the bought politicians dropped dead Id want those swine gone. Ask black folks around here what they think of illegals and the response would make a Klansman blush.
I live in an area being overrun by them and they bring nothing but increased costs for the schools and increased costs for law enforcement. Thankfully my state government passed a law (South Carolina Bill 4400) which is beginning to get some traction and is sending these two legged locusts elswhere- hopefully your state. All businesses are being audited and its against the law for an illegal to attend a state university or get in state rates or state aid at a private. Goodbye and good riddance.
The local school system has been able to release an ESOL teacher at each of the three levels and one elementary school Special Ed teacher for their idiot offspring, allowing them to put resources into the children of citizens and legal immigrants who deserve them. Too bad, some lazy tard has to pay more for lawn care, so what?
They bring nothing useful, and its nice to see the lawn care and construction crews increasingly turning to late teen/early 20 year old types who are actual citizens. I talked to a couple- they are happy with their $12/hr jobs and it was certainly good enough work for me as a college kid.
Eff Pablo, his spawn, and the burro he rode in on. Had to drive off three of em a couple months ago looking in my car windows at 1 am in my driveway, the sound of a 12 ga. round being jacked into the chamber convinced them to go elsewhere. Just wish I were in Texas and could have outright shot them as a warning to the rest. Oh well, Im going from small town to total rural soon, should there ever be a repeat at least I dont have to worry about shots being reported.
Should the government come apart at the seams financially, people will solve this problem themselves. Alot of good ol' boys would love open season with no tags and no limit and Id certainly help. Send them back to the border at gunpoint, make the military enforce the border, and we'll be fine.
I have read quite a bit of early U.S. history and the history of the Americas and I must disagree with your assertions. When the U.S. was framed, it most certainly was never designed to be a universal country.
Which assertion?
I never stated what this country was intended to be by the founders. Anyway, who cares. Those fools are dead now.
I care about what the country can be.
Bwahahah, Eugenics? The Dallas Fed says in 30 years, nearly a third of the workforce of Texas won't have a high school education. Enjoy your garbage dump. I can't decide where to go with my money, Costa Rica or Tel Aviv?
Newsflash buddy, the U.S. won't exist as a political entity in 2050 and the majority of "hispanics" are "white" according to the Pew Hispanic Center.
To say a country with a distinct people cannot govern itself is false, do you think Israel lets anyone in?
I didn't say that a country with distinct people cannot govern itself. I would agree, that is false.
Israel isn't exactly a shining beacon of democratic progress.
Government monopoly on education has created a situation where a high school diploma doesn't much of anything. Don't confuse schooling with education. You can learn on your own.
I don't see what the dallas fed's calculations have to do with the arguments I was addressing in my post from the previous poster.
Why would I have any interest in democratic progress, whatever that is? It seems like a rather nice place. You espouse libertarian drivel to deflect from the facts. education is worthless because the government has a monopoly on it?
No the Dallas Fed's opinion is worthless because what good is a damn high school diploma if you can't speak chinese.
come now...have you met a home-schooled person recently?
This article smells Multi-Cult Talmudic, ripe now since 1965:
Here's your immigrants... make sure they are on the bus with you...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDUIxJJbP00
Get your house painted in two days! Hire an illegal, he brings his crew of 6 and its done in two days. The illegals are now the contractors.They will win just like Walmart has won. ANYTHING FOR A LOWER PRICE!
Didn't colin powell just do an infomercial for this?
Maybe, maybe not. This isn't quite so simple. For starters, unlike my neighbors' illegal lawn care workers, Walmart doesn't steal my mail, try to break into my house, or siphon gas out of my cars.
i was a lic,bonded,fully insured and legal in every way. cant compete with the mexican crews. I am out, retired and sick of chasing dollars. Never was a fair system, never will be. I am happy to be rid of responsibility, taxes,employees with excuses and bad habits, appointments and dissapointments.Ach du lieber, no more stress. Yahooooo
In other words, you conspired with the criminal class and got screwed. Meanwhile illegal crews understand the value of the freedom to work, and were able to leverage it despite the barriers to entry you support.
It all goes back to the insanity of the productive people of the world having to get permission to work from the unproductive overlords.
You could not compete because you hobbled yourself with the burdens of excessive government. It is they that are the problem, not those that prosper in spite of it. And even though you could promise higher quality, that still cannot overcome your other burdens that have priced you out of the market.
Now I'm not saying you did anything wrong (other than perhaps place your faith in a system that steals from you), but that thanks to the banksters, there isn't anything right to do. This is why there are always black markets to allow for some sanity, when sanity is outlawed. Take away the criminal governing class and you will once again find a level playing field where you can compete.
Gonzalo painted my whole house in 1/4 the time at 1/4 the price.
...and 1/10th the quality, using inferior materials. If I didn't have to pay all kinds of taxes, including SS and income taxes, I would be able to charge less, too.
With that logic I would imagine American car companies being run by illegals!
It must be the unions hiring the illegals because American cars a crap.
p.s. not Gonzalo Lira!
And when the job is done, dump the paint into the sewer...which leads to the river and bay.
In the meantime, our kids can't find jobs....
Are your kids really looking for jobs? A lot of those kids who come looking for jobs these days seem to be unwilling to do things like fetch coffee and answer the phone, which were perfectly acceptable foot in the door jobs when I was starting out. Now they want to "write the new marketing plan" because they took a course in marketing while in college. They aren't looking for jobs, they are looking to run the company from day one.
+2010.
Jobs for kids:
1. Study Chemistry and enough electronics to create instrumentation. Routinely test and report real water quality in the streams of the size big enougy for some sort of fish and or acquatic life. Send conclusions to appropriate congressmen and post on local blog; offer subscriptions of detail to government agencies.
2. Study Cheminal Engineering sufficient to fashion systems and document cost for remediation of contaminiated streams. Send conclusions to appropriate congressmen and advertise cost/ benefit on a blog.
Parents of kids: - Know that reading, writing and arithmetic for the young children is essential. With attention span and capacity to mentally hold numbers sufficient to add, multiply and divide (in the head) are well equipped to create (ie program or design) later in life.
Want a hot area? Get into hearing aid development, design or supply. I am 75 and, other than loss of energy and some loss of short tern memory (I am the only one who knows.), the only limitation is hearing loss. Functional life spans are getting longer and almost everyone in my age bracket is showing some signs.. And other people notice that immediately.
There is enormous opportunity in technology isn't going to go away but the fundamentals have got to be there in the mind. The kids must be able to read, do math and have an attention span long enough to make them competitive. Of course, they need playtime as well but the boob tube should be banned early in life.
What do the sheeple really want?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVFicrySdS0
Bjork1, I thoroughly understand your thoughts; I share them. My father was an engineer, and I was a CEO of a chemical firm. And while it is true that many products need to be re-engineered to fit the needs of an aging nation, especially hearing aids (my husband, who is 65, and still working as a Professor, refuses utterly to condescend to that point), I rather think that the bulk of opportunity in technology lies in the nanotech and bio/nanotech, as well as genomic research that is currently going on.
That much said, there is no way that this country can lead development in scientific inquiry of any variety if a) the kids have no access to real education in public schools, and this is a situation that has become far worse in the past ten years; b) a corollary of (a)--parents MUST take responsibility for the education of their children, and make their children understand that true excellence is the goal; c) there is a way to allow higher-performing kids into either charter schools or private schools via vouchers, and allow the provision of high quality vocational schools for kids who are not interested in traditional schooling, which is what the Europeans do.
Anybody tasted French pastry in France lately? Could a US high school student produce that? No--they might have had exposure to one lousy spinach dip recipe in what passes for home ec these days... But 16-year old "dropouts" (as they would be categorized here) do that, within the paradigms of a very controlled apprenticeship system. We need this desperately here, and sooner rather than later. We already have the huge value reward baked in for people who do well in these industries; they are lionized here now, and that is a trend that is growing.
But your primary question--what do the sheeple really want--is, I think, rather easy to answer. They want a life for themselves and their kids that requires no effort, no involvement, and no real investment (a truly royal perspective, if there ever was one). They think they were born into that world. Sorry, Charlie. You are in for the rocket ride of a lifetime.