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Socialism Gone Apeshit: Obama Wants To Use Proceeds From $20 Billion Fraudclosure Settlement To Reduce Underwater Mortgages
Ever wonder why the banks have been stowing away cash as if in anticipation of a torrential rainy day? Well, it just started pouring. According to the WSJ: "The Obama administration is trying to push through a settlement over mortgage-servicing breakdowns that could force America's largest banks to pay for reductions in loan principal worth billions of dollars…Terms of the administration's proposal include a commitment from mortgage servicers to reduce the loan balances of troubled borrowers who owe more than their homes are worth, people familiar with the matter said. The cost of those writedowns won't be borne by investors who purchased mortgage-backed securities, these people said…some state attorneys general and federal agencies are pushing for banks to pay more than $20 billion in civil fines or to fund a comparable amount of loan modifications for distressed borrowers…Regulators are looking at up to 14 servicers that could be a party to the settlement…Banks would also have to reduce second-lien mortgages when first mortgages are modified…Under the administration's proposed settlement, banks would have to bear the cost of all writedowns rather than passing them on to other investors. The settlement proposal focuses on pushing servicers who mishandled foreclosure procedures to eat losses, by writing down loans that they service on behalf of clients. Those clients include mortgage-finance giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, as well as investors in loans that were securitized by Wall Street firms.” In other words, we have just reached the pinnacle of banana republic socialist insanity. In one fell swoop the teleprompter will not only grant reprieve to the banks for decades of fraudulent mortgage activity, but undercapitalize themselves and have them at risk for another liquidity run, which would of course mean another record multi-trillion taxpayer bailout. And the worst case: the 10 million or whatever underwater mortgages will get an average reduction of $2000 each. This is unfuckingbelieveable!
From the WSJ:
A settlement could help lift a cloud of uncertainty that has stalled the foreclosure process since last fall. Economists have warned that foreclosures need to proceed for the housing market to continue on a path to recovery. It's unclear how many borrowers would benefit from a deal. Servicers have thus far had difficulty managing the volume of troubled loans.
So far, most loan modifications have focused on shrinking monthly payments by lowering interest rates and extending loan terms. Banks, as well as mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, have been shy to embrace principal reductions, in part due to concerns that many borrowers who can afford their loans will stop paying in the hope of being rewarded with a smaller loan. But some economists warn that rising numbers of underwater borrowers will drag on housing markets and the economy for years unless more is done to help them.
Several federal agencies have been scrutinizing the nation's largest banks over breakdowns in foreclosure procedures that erupted last fall. Last week, the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency said only a small number of borrowers had been improperly foreclosed upon. But the regulator raised concerns over inadequate staffing and weak controls over certain foreclosure processes.
A settlement must satisfy an unwieldy mix of authorities, including state attorneys general and regulators such as the newly formed Bureau of Consumer Financial Protection, who support heftier fines. They must also appease banking regulators, such as the OCC, that are concerned penalties could be too stiff.
"Nothing has been finalized among the states, and it's our understanding that the federal agencies we are in discussions with have not finalized their positions," said a spokesman for Iowa Attorney General Tom Miller, who is spearheading a 50-state investigation of mortgage-servicing practices.
On the utter economic futility of this idiotic action:
Bank executives say principal cuts don't necessarily improve payment patterns, and have told other parties involved in the talks that principal reductions could raise new complications. First, it will be difficult to determine who gets reductions and who doesn't. And even if banks agree to a $20 billion penalty, the number of mortgages that can be cured with that number is limited, one of these people said.
Any settlement could be one of the largest to hit the mortgage industry. In 2008, Bank of America settled claims worth more than $8.6 billion for loans allegedly involving predatory lending practices committed by Countrywide Finance Corp., which it acquired that year.
Of course the winner would be Obama's chances at getting reelected for a second term as teleprompter in chief. As for the outcome, now that the curve is flattening and the sad reality of the economic collapse is once again being appreciated, we will have a bank collapse that much sooner, leading to more trillions in taxpayer funded bail outs, so Wall Street can have another year of record bonuses, all the while the Chairsatan proceeds with QE 3, 4, 5, 6 and so forth. Which of course is the primary motive.
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1. In January 1958, Mao launched the second Five Year Plan known as the Great Leap Forward, a plan intended as an alternative model for economic growth to the Soviet model focusing on heavy industry that was advocated by others in the party. Under this economic program, the relatively small agricultural collectives which had been formed to date were rapidly merged into far larger people's communes, and many of the peasants ordered to work on massive infrastructure projects and the small-scale production of iron and steel. All private food production was banned; livestock and farm implements were brought under collective ownership.
2. Combined with the diversion of labour to steel production and infrastructure projects and the reduced personal incentives under a commune system this led to an approximately 15% drop in grain production in 1959 followed by further 10% reduction in 1960 and no recovery in 1961. In an effort to win favour with their superiors and avoid being purged, each layer in the party hierarchy exaggerated the amount of grain produced under them and based on the fabricated success, party cadres were ordered to requisition a disproportionately high amount of the true harvest for state use primarily in the cities and urban areas but also for export. The net result, which was compounded in some areas by drought and in others by floods, was that the rural peasants were not left enough to eat and many millions starved to death in what is thought to be the largest famine in human history.
3. Moreover, most of the dams, canals and other infrastructure projects, which millions of peasants and prisoners had been forced to toil on and in many cases die for, proved useless as they had been built without the input of trained engineers, whom Mao had rejected on ideological grounds.
4. They also argue that the Maoist era improved women's rights by abolishing prostitution, a phenomenon that was to return after Deng Xiaoping and post-Maoist CPC leaders increased liberalization of the economy. Indeed, Mao once famously remarked that "Women hold up half the heavens". A popular slogan during the Cultural Revolution was, "Break the chains, unleash the fury of women as a mighty force for revolution!" Skeptics observe that similar gains in literacy and life expectancy occurred after 1949 in the small neighboring island country of Taiwan, which was ruled by Mao's opponents, namely Chiang Kai-Shek and the Kuomintang, even though they themselves perpetrated substantial repression in their own right. The regime that took over in Taiwan was composed of the same people ruling the Mainland for over 20 years when life expectancy was so low, yet life expectancy there also increased. However, the United States helped Taiwan with aid and infrastructure, along with Japan and other countries.
http://www.goodorient.com/pages.php?pageid=17
Do you begin to understand or are you still grasping for this?
Obama Is Going To Pay For My Gas And Mortgage!!!
Socialism only works until you run out of someone else's money. The next looting & money laundering scam is going global.
You might be glad to know you're safe from socialism . . . until the revolution, at least.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
Read it and weep.
Unfortunately, it's just as bad if you view it correctly through the lens of capitalism. Worse, actually.
When someone or parties are aware of future events. Doesn't matter if your white, black, Christan, Islam, Hindi. It doesn't matter if your a billionaire or someone that lives on the street without food or shelter. The bottom line, your not going to have access *******. Everything that happens is for a reason. DNA collection populates pass/fail screening, reproduction and formation of a new civilization. Stem cell research is being used to alter DNA candidates and clone.
I don't care what a wikipedia site states. Electronic history will be wiped to protect new architects carving out their revised vision of a perfect society.
And the beat goes on..
It could happen.
After a herd of cats wins the Olympic Gold Medal in Team Synchronized Swimming.
Face it: We're a wild bunch, humanity. Very tribal. And crazy as hell right down to the indivual level. We couldn't even achieve it if it became our primary goal. No way, it can't happen. Call it our DNA, but.
White Capital has raped the world for 500 years.
But hey - we've got LOTS of landfills.
You wanna get that chip off your shoulder boyo
Priced in...equities have priced in a miraculous recovery that ain't gonna happen - especially with oil rocketting and silver/gold taking up a larger portion of productive capital allocation.
This place just isn't competitive and we spent all the debt we accumulated the past 50 years on circle-jerking consumption instead of inventions and production that would have made life better.
The desperation on behalf of the political elite and the banksters is just starting.
Sam, life WAS good (and still is, when you consider that 2/3 of the world's population lives on $3/day or less, well... makes us look like a bunch of whiners, entitled). Problem was, as you note, too much consumerism. But... what are inventions for if not for consumption?
More inventions would likely mean MORE consumption (along the lines of Jevons Paradox), something that Mother Nature is starting to get a bit peeved at.
When you have a mission you stick to it "But... what are inventions for if not for consumption?" Hand me some more of that penicillin really goes good on top of cheesy chips while watching T.V.
Luddites; their only answer is minimize yourself to maximize Gaia..
i think they are missing a few zeros.......$200,000 minimum for my vote .....moral hazard is expensive
$2000 per homeowner is totally meaningless even if you believe in this version of socialism.
TJ just wanted to talk out his ass about socialism. The facts don't matter.
Just another bailout of White Capital.
There is a foreclosed property in my neightborhood. The usual story. The bank who owned it Bank bought it auction then promptly put it up for sale at 10K less than they paid. But it has a shiny new title so all is well. No bites and the just dropped the price 20K. So in less than a month it has dropped 30K.
Somehow I don't think this scheme has any legs what so ever. It is offensive to everyone except the banks.
Great.
Banks got bailed out
Losers who cant pay their mortgages got bailed out.
People who pay their bills on time get nothing.
I will do my best to help that buttfuck from kenya to be a one term president.
They'd have to at least throw in a free I-Pod for me to consider $2000 principle a mortgagee bailout. This is more of another BANK bailout. And MERS problem solver since they sign another note to get their $2000, but it's really loonie tunes since closing fees are like 1500 usually, what a cluster this whole economy is, troll/
Good.
I hope it is a scam. Time to nationalize the big banks fortwith
Fuck! I meant Mortgagor. No wonder I flunked that weekend class in real estate the first time around. Got my license just in time to speculate all the houses I could up to retarded high prices tho. (J/K I fucking hate realtors, sorry). Are you in real estate, troll?
No.
"People who pay their bills on time get nothing."
Yes, I agree, this sucks the big one. However, I know that I'm honest and that I can sleep very well. Further, people who know me will do business with me. Character integrity is worth a lot. It's never good to be like those you dislike.
With current POTUS out you actually believe that things would be any different? Look at the trends, they've been pretty consistent: downward trajectory since the US oil production peaked (adjusted for inflation average wages are actually less than back in the early 70s, when oil production peaked).
Do yourself a favor and read, "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu. And try "The Will to Power" by Nietzsche, though that's probably well over your head.
Your insistence on reinforcing your own good character shows a severe lack of confidence in your own words. Truly, you are a sucker just looking to get taken by the next con man so you can luxuriate in your self-proclaimed "goodness."
Just saying, you must like taking in the backside from the way you speak.
Banks are run by losers.
They should all kill themselves. What a moral victory that would be to the rest of the world!
You know you're a shit troll when you can't even get "junks" for your spamming efforts.
Junked for being insensitive. I don't want them to kill themselves.
I want to see them torn to shreds by angry mobs, preferrably an angry mob in which I am an active participant.
Next time, show some sensitivity to the little guy's desires.
treasury issues bonds?
banks buys bonds?
Fed prints money and buys bonds from banks?
Obama takes money from banks and gives to prefered special interest group of the week?
those few tax payers who are left pick up the tab on it all?
Has it ever been any different?
This shit has been going on since day one. It's only now that we are noticing because we're drawing to a close, growth is faultering.
"There have been 4 jobs or activities which Man has engaged in throughout the centuries: Hunter/Gathering, Agriculture, Manufacturing, and Services. What's next? What category can you imagine in which billions of people will be working in the future?
It turns out that there is a final category. It is known as Unemployment. As Agriculture, Manufacturing, and Services become more efficient in the coming months, workers will have nowhere to go but to the unemployment line. At some point, Man's artificial economic system will necessarily collapse. When that happens, the corporations which produce and deliver food will no longer have an incentive to do so. The cities will suffer great hunger and it will be the end of Man.
The current jobless situation you read about in the news is not an ordinary part of the business cycle. It is the final stretch of the linear trend that began with the birth of our species."
prostitution
- falls under "services" guy.
"As Agriculture, Manufacturing, and Services become more efficient in the coming months,"
Efficiency will erode as fuel prices increase. Seems factory capacity is pretty low- efficiency is that closer to full capacity. More people will be directly involved in producing food (for others, or for themselves), count on it.
Agree. Already see it happening, even with those who are economic illiterates. They intuitively know something is very, very wrong.
It's back to basics.
Maybe it's time we got back to the basics of love.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvZeYDBY4fw
Hi guys I need to know if I did good.....
I checked Lear Capital has silver eagles for $2.65 premium and silver maples for $2.00 premium, any quantity even 1 coin. If you order $1500 worth you can get free shipping with coupon code F7B9E (it worked for me earlier today - web price only). It also helped me that they will take a personal check or money order in addition to wire for no extra fee. I know they are in with beck or limbaugh or something but their premium is low.
Gainesville had junk silver any quantiy $0 over spot, their coupon code is NAIUS for $5 off shipping.
So anyway I ordered 25oz of eagles and 25oz of maples from Lear and $100 face 90% dimes from gainesville - did I make a good deal?
NOT as good a deal than you would have had you bought a retardedly overpriced house. If you did that you'd get $2000, and perhaps a free I-pod!
Is the iPod shiny?
if they deliver witout signficant delay - yes...
aways avoid counterparty risk...money n hand n exchange for coin on the spot is the only way to b sure....cheers......
They said it would be here in 5 business days. So we'll see...
Chump change
WTF is right. The class of "victims" here are the borrowers and the perps are the banks and their servicers. But notice that the proposed settlement gives nothing to the borrowers. This is because there is probably no borrower who is underwater by less than $2,000. So a principal reduction of $2,000 is worth nothing to the borrower.
It is also worth nothing to the banks. This is because a bank's ultimate loss on an underwater mortgage is the book value of the original loan less the net sale proceeds received from REO. For example, a loan with a principal balance of $500k and $50 of accured interest and foreclosure fees and costs is liquidated through foreclosure and resale for a net of $350k. This would normally be a $200k loss. But under this settlement, the loan would be written down to $498k before it is ultimately foreclosed on (because obviously a $2k reduction is not going to save anybody from foreclosure). So now the loss on resale is the difference between $548 (reduced principal and accrued interest) and the net REO proceeds of $350 --- $198k loss. This plus the "writedown" loss of $2k = $200k loss to the bank.
See the math? It's still a $200k loss to the banking system either way.
This is just a shell game that will probably work by fooling most people into thinking there was a benefit there somewhere. The only benefit is to MERS and the bankers who created it, the title companies that insured the fraudlent loans, and the real estate industry that is desparately hoping to clear the foreclosures sooner rather than later. Oh, and the politicians will get to claim that their "tough" regulations helped clean up Dodge City...
Perhaps we should ask the President to log on here and explain how
What do the citizens who paid off their mortgage get?
They get Obama'd!
The shaft.
I'm hoping for some vaseline and one of those donut pillows...
Free.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEa-ctbj8rk
I'm calling this the rumor revealed.
Rumor was spreading in January that the Obama admin was working on a "fix" for fraudclosure and continuing housing value declines. Was anticipated in Mar/Apr.
I guess recent market action and foreign affairs pushed the time table up some.
$2000 figure is just a test balloon to gauge public reaction. Wait until we see the real numbers. More info coming.
Do you think QE3 would be made more palatable to the public if it was billed as the homeowner rescue package? "Finally! A bailout package for main street," is what people will say.
I think that you've nailed it.
Was it good for you, too?
You are correct and the fix is in. With the administration putting it's nose into a potential massive fraud case that could take down all these mortgage originators and banks, tells me this will be just like GM bankruptcy and the Chrysler deal. In the GM bankruptcy the federal judges essentially did what the administration wanted them to do and overlooked decades of bankruptcy law. This deal of 20 billion dollars (doesn't that match the 20 billion that BP ponied up for the gulf spill) is chump change to the handful of banks and mortgages places that will put in money into this kitty. Remember they have had at least 2 years keeping profits to themselves and not loaning out money and also making money off of the meltup. This will end up being just 2,000 dollars reduction on some not all (because many won't be able to get reduced) and the bankers will get off scott free from a potential hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars in problems and also won't have to worry about that little issue of title/note to the house anymore (foreclosures will be back in style once again).
What gets me is the last paragraph about someone saying that it wouldn't be enough to cover everybody. When I read it at first it seemed to come from the person being interviewed but did it come from the person who wrote the article? Because if I was a bank or corporation that is close to the legal and financial abyss from fraud, I would call a 20 billion dollar settlement with others a get out of jail free card and call it a day, let the fed worry about solving the issue.
Correct. First sane post in awhile.
$20b is chump change. It's not even a week's worth of POMOs. The Obama administration is concerned that their largest donors are getting taken to court one by one by upper middle class white people who can read and have the resources to fight them. There's no note. The banks can't show who the owner of the property is.
They're in full-on panic mode behind the scenes. They know damn well what the MERS decision implied. They're trying to completely destroy property rights and civil judicial procedure here.
You know something is FUBAR when what should be a completely disinterested party (the federal government) offers a settlement.
AND I might add, HOW MOTHERFUCKING LONG DID BANKS KNOW ABOUT THIS SETTLEMENT AND NOT DISCLOSE THIS? That little puke white house aide can tell you to keep this hush hush, but that's illegal.
Ok, so who here does NOT believe that Obama is the dumbest motherfucker on the planet?
And what's that line about people getting the government that they deserve......
Any more questions as to the weakness in the greenback and treasuries at a time when they would normally see safe haven flows?
This smacks of desperation. Maybe diversified bonds cash and pm's with 15 percent stocks are the way to go.
Obama's not the dumbest. Don't forget that every politician has backers... and voters.
There is no settlement possible for what the banksters have done.
We can't even liquidate their assets which are full of "bags of shit".
A "settlement" is just a slap on the wrist--more proof of "Who run Bartertown?".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hgq4w4dqKsU
NATIONALIZE THE BANKS!
ZERO OUT THE BOND AND.STOCKHOLDERS!
END THIS FARCE NOW!
All I can say is FUCK ME IN THE ASS!!!!!!!
If this terrible, idiotic, utterly bank-friendly idea catches on, this would be the final straw.
$20 billion is a pittance compared to the fraud and theft, people. This isn't even a donw payment. This is crazy shit.
It would be easier to do what I said 2 years ago. Claw back all mortgage payments made from 2005 though (now) December 31, 2010. Re-apply all those payments directly to PRINCIPAL and start all mortgages OVER, with all the CORRECT mortgages from this point forward. Yeah all the MSB holders get the shaft, the banks get fucked and the Americans get some skin in the game. It would immediately put MOST underwater homes back in the black, reduce the overall debt levels AND give people an incentive to stay in their fucking homes. Do it now Barack......DO IT NOW!!!!!
I'm afraid that this would fail just like the refinancing options that were pushed. People would refinance and then still fail, because, well, job losses and other debt.
While this could help clear up individuals' books, it still does nothing for the real problem: contracting credit, which, wouldn't be addressed by this (or, for anything else for that matter).
this is the best plan i have heard.....and also the most fair and correct
Hey Obama, I'm all for socialism - socialize the banks - not their debts.
I'm sure you will need to be the right color in order to get this subsidy
Well, we know WHITE Capital gets bailed out for fucking up the world to the tune of about $25,000,000,000,000.
For 500 years, White capital has stolen its way to wealth.
I can see why you're angry. It's a good thing I'm green.
The US is a story of entitlements. As more US citizens are about to lose their entitlements birth right, they grow jealous of people who might still be in the good favours.
It wouldn't make sense to take money from those who are underwater and give it to those who are above water, so how does it make sense to take money from those who are above water (or own outright) and give it to those who are underwater? Oh, that's right, from each according to his ability, and to each according to his need.
Are these people f***ing stupid!!!!
Nope. They are using all their computer power right now taking a tally of this program's popularity. On some blogs you can rest assured that this is a very popular idea! They will do whatever causes the least social unrest.
Is it just me or do all of their "solutions" come up about 90% short consistently? The deficit solution to save $100 billion a year. The "financial collapse" solution was to make the big banks assimilate the smaller banks and then pay for the bailout with free money. Now $20 billion is going to fix fraudclosurerapingofamericanmiddleclass "gate."
Can I be the planner? I can solve everything if that is all it takes.
Why not just implement a full-blown transition to the 'World of Star Trek'.
Let everyone in the World live, eat, drink, work, and pray for free! The one thing that we will not need are governments. Yay! We can run he whole show with just a World Council of one rep per country. No money required. No Banks, no stock markets, no contracts. Everybody works for the benefit of all and to improve ourselves. Free medical, free transportation, free vacations, free.free.free.
work? fuck you! im off on a world tour in my new FREE ferrari, filling up for free at every petrol station, and eating and sleeping at the swankest hotels.
--- o wait, none of that shit exists anymore :( we're in a socialist utopia
edit sory i didnt notice the </sarcasm > tag, u can ignore the fuck you part
Everybody wins at Obama's great giveaway:
Obama -> Votes from the poor
Banks -> help extend on having to foreclose, extend and pretend, then when they get low, the taxpayer can replenish their cash reserves with a bail-out, bonuses!
GSEs -> More extend and pretend
Taxpayers...well they always get screwed.
I wouldn't worry about the banks too much they are still dumping these loans on taxpayers through the GSE's, it's the taxpayer who will eat this. Obama won't bite the hands that fed him.
Unlimited credit for GSEs seen as backdoor bailout http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/01/05/us-usa-housing-bailout-idUSTRE6044YU20100105
Barack’s Wall Street Problem is Now America’s
http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/21/baracks-wall-street-problem-is-now-americas/
JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon Donates Serious Cash to Democrats
http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2009/07/jpmorgan-ceo-jamie-dimon-donat.html
I am surprised it took this long!!! Look, I could not give a shit about what banks do with non GSE loans but FRE and Fannie losses are paid by the taxpayers. The sad thing is that there is no need to forgive principal. They blew it when rates were lower by not offering market rate refi opportunities for underwater borrowers - they could have offered 40 yr amortizing loans with 5% rate for any underwater and current GSE loan originated prior to conservatorship - loans that could have been sold at above par so no loss to agencies, just to the investors in the premium priced MBS. Borrowers could have saved 3-400 dollars per month. Forgiving principal for delinquent borrowers does nothing. They need to help borrowers that are paying above market rates but have equity issues who are RESPONSIBLE and CURRENT on payments. Idiots.
On another note, recent FHA data proves that they are currently insolvent. They have 61,oo loans in REO as of yr end (up 47% from a year earlier) carried at a value of 9bb or approximately 150k per loan. Based on the average loan size for 3 year old GNMA loans, it looks like they are carrying these loans at original book value. THey have approx 3bb in reserve as of year end and it seems to me that the 9bb in REO is really worth about half. Just wait until the 2009 loans start to go bad.
Seriously, just how strong is the sh*t these people are drinking/smoking/snorting.
Doc says it's pretty goddamned fucking good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbIFmPBsN7Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3Ecm8PL0yU
Of course, those of us who have behaved responsibly, and are not behind on our mortgages, will receive no benefit from this. Typical. Also wrong, in the moral sense of the word.
Actually, those who "benefit" from this will probably get lost in the paperwork and red tape of the process, and end up speding more time in the whole mess than it's worth.
or the people that didn't buy into a mortgage that they knew they couldn't or wouldn't pay off...
I am kinda thinking we need to start a facebook revolution here. This is complete and total lunacy.
Only those with nothing to lose will join a public crusade.
Right...Zuckerberg sitting at Obama's right hand for the recent Silicon Valley photo-op dinner meeting. That's revolutionary.
Wallstreet handouts...everyone sneers and hands over the money, mainstreet handouts and knives come out...what gives?
the sheeple deserve to be slaughtered...bring on the pain.
The problem with this or any other proposed legislation these days are manifold. First, they have to actually argue (put on a show for the peeps) over said legislation, then they have to try to implement it (as far as I am aware, nobody can be forced - coerced - into signing or accepting anything), then they have to actually enforce it.
Considering the plan seems to be to shut the government down within two weeks or keep it going with stop-gap measures every two weeks or once a month, the chances of any such legislation passing before June are slim, the chances of it actually passing in some understandable form are almost nil and the chance of it being implemented by year's end about 20%.
Looks more like a little more "extend and pretend" to me. $2k ain't gonna cut it for anybody. Now, if they're talking $20K, they might get some attention - both from distressed homeowners and from people who don't like giving money away.
I'm sure it's all for show. Just the Big O trying to look good. But people will never agree to start paying again, now that they've stopped, not for two grand.
I need another beer. Jeezus.
First, I hate more government involvement, let the mess sort itself out without the government getting in there and undoubtedly making things worse. At the very least it will be another exercise in government deciding winners and losers.
Second, I fail to see how this will do much good if it's only $20B.
More idiocy IMO
I will bet money that the other angle here is to rope people in on re-signing what are now defective mortgages, as their mortgage has a broken chain of title, as it was run through MERS, thus they lose any ability to challenge the bank in foreclosure proceedings, on recordation and perfection of title issues, whereas they can now.
That's a bingo. Think of the sleaziest disingenuous behaviour possible with these crims and you're guaranteed to be right 90% of the time.
I'll give them 10 points for failed execution on the remainder.
Yes, you are correct of course, the tricky basterds thought up a way to trick the terminally stupid into signing a new mortgage without the MERS problems. Then they can take the property. Cheap way to get a new piece of LEGAL paper. Geez. I should have saw this from the start. Bribe the financial slave to purchase new chains for himself. We need a guillotine in this country, quick.
We can't boycott, they control the economy.
We can't vote out their patsies, they control both parties.
We can't sue them, they control the courts.
We can't protest, they control the media.
If we let them, they control our will.
For what is a man?
What has got? If not himself, than he has not.
To say the things, he truly feels, and not the words of one who kneels.
- Frank Sinatra
hey, I'm current on my mortgage and not underwater, what do I get? the shaft and higher taxes?
Yes. You will be looted later. But just slightly. Although with more vigor.
Bend over, bitch they got something for you.... don't forget to BTFD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! beetch!
This has been going on for awhile.
Four Credit Suisse bankers have been indicted on conspiracy charges today -- they're accused of helping wealthy American clients hide up to $3 billion in assets from the IRS, the AP reports.
Arrest warrants have been issued for all of the bankers -- three of whom are Swiss, one is Italian -- who prosecutors allege are part of a conspiracy that dates back decades, to 1953.
http://www.businessinsider.com/4-credit-suisse-bankers-charged-in-tax-ev...
but what can a poor boy do except sing in a rock and roll band
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TvpGw7xDv8
on Wed, 02/23/2011 - 23:52
#991791
This has been going on for awhile.
Four Credit Suisse bankers have been indicted on conspiracy charges today -- they're accused of helping wealthy American clients hide up to $3 billion in assets from the IRS, the AP reports.
Arrest warrants have been issued for all of the bankers -- three of whom are Swiss, one is Italian -- who prosecutors allege are part of a conspiracy that dates back decades, to 1953.
http://www.businessinsider.com/4-credit-suisse-bankers-charged-in-tax-ev...
**************************************************************************
OUTSTANDING!!!!! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Trillions in Gold for You my Friend!
I read this and just laugh.... the Blind
leading the Blind.... Jim Sinclair said 3 years
ago... Debt. Spiral... / This is it....
the us dollar is Dog Food... Jim saw it
coming..
loub215 >> you are right...
Sounds like it keeps the bankers' mortages alive, while shifting the real cost elsewhere, like to FMAC and FNMA, aka taxpayers. Punish the solvent homeowners. Natch.
Somewhere there's going to be a deal for title relief for the banks for chipping in for $2000/hse house, which they'll pass to the owners anyway in some new fee.
Gee, who knew there was so much money to be made by the banks in a socialist system with government control for the little people? This is Putinism. But, hey, it looks good for the Cargo Culter in Chief's re-election resume. The new congress may not go along with this. Yes, we still have no bananas.
Yes, exactly. Thank you. And he is a cargo culter. He might as well paint John Frum on his chest.
So, the banks would pay the money they have earned via Ben's printing presses and surfing the yield curve, and transfer the money the savers have lost to this scam and pass it on to the servicers who have already been paid $3,000 for modifications so far?
Exactly. TARP and the Homebuyer Tax Credit were invented to buy the Fed and the Banks enough time to put this bigger scam into effect.
Rise of Poland. Another powerhouse in EU?
http://dawnwires.com/investment-news/poland-is-the-new-germany-of-eu/
Not likely.
See this.
Dammit, why does EVERYONE jump on the bandwagon and agree with ZH's read of the situation? What happened to the dissenting viewpoints? Is it still possible to have a discussion without getting junked and flamed?
Well, here goes.
ZH is wrong. In the all-consuming hatred of all things government, ZH attacks even the good ideas. Principle reduction is the *only* solution worth considering. Just ask yourself, how do you deal with a Ponzi scheme when it has busted? What is the most optimal way to clean up the mess? The answer is to chase down as much money that remains, reverse earlier transactions and give people back as much money as possible with a slap in the face and a reminder not to be an idiot in the future. It will never be possible to get everyone back to 100% as some of the earlier "winners" will have disappeared into the ether, never to be found again, but the closer you get to 100%, the cleaner the result and the shorter the time to return to smooth sailing.
The primary fuel for the Ponzi dynamic came from fraudulent misrepresentation of the credit-worthiness of asset-backed securities. This artificially boosted demand, driving even more dodgy loan origination and a property valuation bubble that sucked in the peons looking for a capital gain. Everyone who bought and held an overvalued property became a victim of the Ponzi. Those who sold to take advantage and lock in their gains became the Ponzi beneficiaries (sorry, but those gains were ill-gained and must be reversed). By forcing underwater home-owners to service their loans, the victims are, in effect, being punished for the crime while the perpetrators (the uber Madoffs) get away with it. Keeping things the way there are is NOT the solution; Japan did that and look what happened. Principles *must* be reduced if there is to be any resolution here.
Now let's address this concept that principle reduction is going to somehow cost the banks, big. Oh reaaaally?
So what costs a bank more? A complete default followed by foreclosure and complete elimination of the interest stream, or reduced principle and maintenance of an income stream (albeit less)? Seriously, that's a no-brainer. A principle hit eats into reserves, yes, but not as much as a default and in case people didn't notice, BANKS HAVE MASSIVE SURPLUS RESERVES (as a consequence of QE1), that's the whole point. They can take this hit, the Fed ensured it.
If victims are forced to pay for the crime, if homeowners are forced to continue servicing overvalued loans, then good capital is being wasted that could have been applied elsewhere in the economy to generate useful activity. The consequential economic malaise makes it even more likely that default will occur, hastening it and leading to greater discontent. The economy is effectively paralysed while homeowners remain stuck with the psychology of being underwater. This is what happened in Japan and it's THIS situation will cost the banks (and the country) big, much more than principle reduction.
Finally, for all the people who are getting their panties in a bunch about expanding base money (I'm talking to you ZH), then consider this: the Fed swapped out reserves for ABS in QE1, leading to expansion. When the Fed implements principle writedown on the loans underlying its massive holdings of ABS, the money to cover it comes straight from those excess reserves. The Fed didn't need to swap these things under repo conditions, instead, this way it can deflate the legacy bubble in a controlled way, slowly, and raise interest rates at a later date to prevent it inflating again.
I call that clever.
@mediocritas,
ZH is right. What ZH is asking "Why the fuck is the Government looking at finding a solution? How do we know that it will provide the right solution given that it is inept or reeks of nepotism .. look no further than the crisis and the actions thereon .. who benefited, has situation improved if so for whom?
That is socialism. The issue is between lender and borrower, how the hell has Government become a major player .. by interfering .. let the home owners default, bank take the losses .. that is what should be happening .. not this type of central planning.
The criminals in this story are the loan originators, the worst of which knew damn well that the credit ratings agencies were operating bad models and sought to exploit it.
If you suggest that all the borrowers just default, then you are NOT punishing the originators (who quickly flipped that crap), you are instead punishing the current owner of the ABS, which could be a regional council in Norway, or a superannuation fund in New Zealand for all I know. The consequence of that is a drain of cash from the real economy all around the world. Victims get punished.
The Fauxtrians around here would say "tough shit! If they take the hit then they'll be more careful next time and do their research!". I guess these people don't have kids. When your toddler runs too close to the roses and gets spiked do they say: "tough shit! Next time that kid should watch where he's running".
Assholes.
People buying toxic ABS had no idea what they were getting into and it was damn near impossible for them to figure it out. Just like a toddler has no idea that a rose bush causes pain and no way in advance to figure it out. Punishing the ABS holders is inappropriate.
Onto the whole anti-socialism vibe of ZH. Get over it. Try living in Sweden for a while.
"The Fauxtrians around here would say "tough shit! If they take the hit then they'll be more careful next time and do their research!". I guess these people don't have kids. When your toddler runs too close to the roses and gets spiked do they say: "tough shit! Next time that kid should watch where he's running"."
No we don't...um...because they're toddlers. I suspect by your insipid statement that you never let your teens grow up. Must be why we are in the hell we are in. Adults have adult choices and consequences. Toddlers don't. One should think you'd figured that out by now.
Perhaps we should pass laws negating any contract more than 5 sentences long, so that no one can ever get hurt again!
Riiiiiight.
So you think that all information is shared equally between equally capable adult minds, therefore all adults should be judged equally based on the outcomes of decisions made?
Uh huh. And I suppose you saw all of this coming because you, unlike everyone else, understood EXACTLY what was going on in the world of exotic derivatives?
Get it into your head. There were toddlers in the ABS space and there were sharks. Had YOU been in that space I have no doubt that you too would have been a toddler getting spiked by Goldman Sachs.
Twiiiiiiiit!
"So you think that all information is shared equally between equally capable adult minds"
What kind of completely stupid no sequitor is that? The rest of the sentence is just as insipid. So, unless all information is symetrical, the contract is void? Say, I bet a brainiac like you is just the person the government should hire to determine whether or not two consenting adults ought to enter into a contract to begin with. Gosh, the field of contracts would become oh so much more interesting. Say...do you think we should apply this to marriage contracts too?
"And I suppose you saw all of this coming because you, unlike everyone else, understood EXACTLY what was going on in the world of exotic derivatives?"
Didn't have to understand any such thing "exactly", simpleton. It was enough to know they were exotic to stay out of them on my part. Of course you completely neglect my point that the chasing of yield which made this garbage attractive was due, as I said to the government created central bank and its policies. Do try to keep up, please.
"Get it into your head. There were toddlers in the ABS space..."
Get this in your head. The baby in the Etrade commercials is...FAKE! No seriously, babies, like in those commercials, don't really exist.
..there were sharks."
No shit Sherlock. Swim with sharks, expect to get bit.
"Had YOU been in that space I have no doubt that you too would have been a toddler getting spiked by Goldman Sachs."
No, but if I had that is my business. However I did not swim with the sharks. Unfortunately blow hard dip shits like yourself want to rob me to unfairly aid those that did. I prefer to let people take there own chances and take their own gains and losses. It's only fair. You seem to think your silly little thoughts should allow you to bind me by force.
Errr, why the hell do you think we have REGULATED exchanges? To help improve information between trading parties leading to better price discovery and to ensure that the participants in a trade are qualified to be making that trade. That's WHY we have things like margin requirements.
So you think we shouldn't have any such regulation? Perhaps we should just trade all those exotic derivatives OTC, unregulated...oh wait, they were.
A perfect environment for predators to prey upon the naive with highly unethical and opaque contracts, with the expected outcome. Nice one Einstein. Oh, but wait, you prefer to let people take their own chances and don't think that there's any DUTY OF CARE for responsible adults to ensure that others don't expose themselves to massive risk (without knowing it).
Wild, wild west baby!
Yeah, I know your type, you worship at the altar of Mises and your liquidationist buddies 80 years ago put the Great in Great Depression.
You're able to hold such misguided concepts because you never actually swam with the sharks. You'd have us believe that you were smart enough to know that the sharks were there and so avoided the crash of 2008. Right. More like you didn't even know how to swim in the first place.
All the history of the US summed up in a few words.
Common sense is not always appreciated in an environment where a lot of people think violent dissension in the US is a good thing. Most of the people who promulgate this are, of course, pussies who would design to have other people do their fighting and bloodshed for them. In reality, they should also be on the list of the ones who are hanged if things do go south, since they are the ones who figure they can run things in the breach. Good luck with your alternate opinion.
Blood in the streets if we don't bail out the banksters yet again? See Iceland...
"The primary fuel for the Ponzi dynamic came from fraudulent misrepresentation of the credit-worthiness of asset-backed securities."
Wrong. It came from the banking monopoly's printing pressess, fractional reserve banking, and politburo interest rates.
"By forcing underwater home-owners to service their loans, the victims are, in effect, being punished for the crime..."
Wrong. Adults signed adult contracts. Adult contracts have a whole variety of rules for dealing with such situations.
"while the perpetrators (the uber Madoffs) get away with it."
Enforce the rules of contract. They are "getting away" with it because the rules are changed and the banksters bailed out. Now you argue for yet another bail out.
"So what costs a bank more? A complete default followed by foreclosure and complete elimination of the interest stream, or reduced principle and maintenance of an income stream (albeit less)?"
Clearly you are unaware how this deal works. The banks make more money as servicers foreclosing than working a deal. Further their fraudulent handling of mortgages and notes has left them in limbo as to whether they can even modify, what they can modify, and the consequences. A default as the servicer is far cheaper. I'll let you do the necessary research as I don't have the time tonight to go through all the iterations of this contractual swamp.
"If victims are forced to pay for the crime,"
Far better that the participants of the ponzi pay, than say ME, who did NOT participate. I love how when discussing "victims" you just brush aside the prudent.
"if homeowners are forced to continue servicing overvalued loans"
Such mindless twadle. No one is being forced to do any such thing. Default and foreclusure is always an option.
"When the Fed implements principle writedown on the loans underlying its massive holdings of ABS, the money to cover it comes straight from those excess reserves. "
Claim without warrant.
"I call that clever."
You're not trerribly bright or informed, then are you?
@mediocritis writes, "Everyone who bought and held an overvalued property became a victim of the Ponzi. Those who sold to take advantage and lock in their gains became the Ponzi beneficiaries (sorry, but those gains were ill-gained and must be reversed)."
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the phrase I'm looking for is "Suck my balls. Because I sold my house in 2004 for a sick profit, I'm now supposed to give it back?
Bring it, internet tough guy.
On the other side of your position is a person saying: "I bought my house in 2007 and now I'm sitting on a huge loss. They said houses only go up! I got cheated and I'm supposed to take it? Suck my balls!"
It won't be me bringing it on, it'll be that guy. You two can go into a room and slug it out together, see who wins. That's effectively what's going to happen to the country now: the poor vs the rich.
Place yer bets.
So, we're back to blood in the streets if we follow the rules of contract? Wow. Let me know when you get done chasing your tail.
That's effectively what's going to happen to the country now: the poor vs the rich.
Place yer bets.
No, That's what it has ALWAYS been. They just let the rube win enough to keep him in the game, well game over, last pot.
My bet is on the poor, more of them.
It is actually the thinker vs. the idiot, the responsible vs. the irresponsible, the mature vs. the immature. I am at the bottom of the economic rungs, I purchased a house I could afford and paid it off in 7 years on a 15 year mortgage, and yes, I put 20% down. The only person I know who did so, and I might add, now that I work with people who have earned more than me for the same years [much more] the only person who has a paid off mortgage, most have more than one mortgage. The gas rise in 2008 should have been a clue to these people, but guess what - nope. The idiots and suckers will win in the end, we will all be poor together just like in Eastern Europe or the USSR 20 years ago. Except for those who are 'more equal than others', who will somehow have more. From each according to his abilities, to each according to their needs. Like people who are related to people who were slaves to people who are not related to me; I will be forced to work and pay for them to take a 100 year holiday on welfare and crack. The faster it comes down the better.
Silly fools are those who pay mortgages. Get on to the mortgage gravy train before it is too late .. you "fools-who-pay-your-mortgages"!
The mortgage gravy train will leave obama town soon. Pile on you suckers.
+2 worth a double post.
Silly fools are those who pay mortgages. Get on to the mortgage gravy train before it is too late .. you "fools-who-pay-your-mortgages"!
The mortgage gravy train will leave obama town soon. Pile on you suckers.
Bank stocks are about to take a HUGE hit.
I think that is the point, MERS work around. Banks are after all sitting on mountains of yet to be foreclosed. The early stuff, rahmed through during crisis. "We pay" Those bank profits, come from the FED created interest spread. Free money with no risk. "We pay" This list can continue for some time. So I guess the question is what could possibly be on the minds of these guy's? How much inventory will someone ultimately be sitting on. And is there a twist to the outcome of a position like that down the line. Inflation. To build a home with copper, lumber, labor, etc., will cost considerably more next year than today thanks to "Helo Ben". For some reason I think that this leads somewhere else. The banks ended up holding the Gold in 33'. That thought somewhat haunts me as well. Missing something?
I don't have a comment yet. Just logging in.
OMG them poor Negroes may be getting away with a "free" $2000 handout after being sold into a home they will never afford by some slick community member and / or upwardly mobile Caucasian broker.
Fuck them, regardless of the fact that the dealing drugs is sexier among tnhe community and, well, there is that little issue of slavery that might have put'em behind the eight ball in terms of adapting to the sophistication of modern day finance.
Nah, direct your rage toward the inequalities amongst the "have nots". Besides, all that corporate welfare- well it goes to protect out freedoms.
Help me out here. Who in America was a slave and then financed a house with the Banksters and is now underwater? Because slavery ended in America in 1865 or thereabouts, about 50 years before my European grandparents came to America with rags on their backs and nothing in their hands. Anyone who was a slave would now be 146 years old or older. Unless they are a recent immigrant from Africa, where slavery is practiced today. Then they might have that excuse for being a financial retard, but the blame would fall on other 'Negroes" [to use your term] wouldn't it? What nonsense you write.
Your whole premise is flawed from the start, anyway, because if anything, the vast majority of those who would get the $2k are white, so WTF are you even talking about? Reach over and knock that giant chip off your shoulder and move on. Nobody on this site is for fucking bank bailouts or corporate welfare, far from it. Unless they are a shit floats level seeking troll.
Hey but no problem, FAZ was down and the banks are still100% long bet. Just fucking nationalize them and the 401ks already. i see it a mile away...
You guys- this is brilliant!
- the banks have worthless garbage
- they are going to eat most of these mortgages
- if people are foreclosed on and banks keep getting free taxpayer money, there will be hell to pay
- take all that toxic shit, give it away like a Bahrain sheik and claim you are helping the people. Hell, the banks are going to lose it anyway
- save your rapidly declining re-election campaign
- pretend you are with the people and stick it to the banks when you are just relieving the banks of crap
Everyone wins! Free money for everyone who made a dumb decision,
Because welfare BUYS votes. See PRI, mexico...
one really have to wonder why Americans bend over again and again? Totally gutless compared to Egypt and Lybia people.
News flash:
Geithner Butt of Jokes No More as Obama’s Money Man Now on Top
http://noir.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a5o_CRFJcEiU&pos=4
LOL!!!
That's quite possibly the most ri-goddamn-diculous thing I've ever read.
We must have the stupidest socialists in the history of socialism. The Soviet Union wouldn't have lasted half as long as it did with numb-nut stupid ideas like this.
Oh well maybe it's better in the end, so this farce ends sooner rather than later.
It seems to me that in order to get a $2000 handout, the bank will charge a processing fee...I'm guessing around $100 - $200.
At least there wont be an appraisal fee !
In this scheme there will be no appraisal required.
Its a courtesy of the lenders ;-)
NO FUCKING WAY! NO FUCKING WAY I SAY!!!! NO FUCKING WAY!!!! THIS IS OUR TAHRIR SSQUARE MOMENT IF THIS PASSES! GRAB THE PITCHFORKS. AGAIN, NO FUCKING GODDAMN WAY!
Not unbelievable at all. That's exactly how will next few years look like: coupons, IOUs , food stamps, gasoline stamps etc etc to poorer and poorer robbed taxpayers and QExyz trillions to financial cabal and gov.
It will go on and on and every few months gov will remind you that they are saving your lives.
Finally fin cabal will expropriate everything valuable around the globe - at least those assets where there can lay their hands on (where locals are corrupted criminals)
Looks like oil's going to make this a non-issue.
"And the worst case: the 10 million or whatever underwater mortgages will get an average reduction of $2000 each. This is unfuckingbelieveable!"
No, no it's not unbelieveable. There is nothing whatsoever surprising about this, because at this point, nothing the O-tard or his minions does would surprise me.
Oil zooms over $100. S&P futures tank. Euro tanks but dollar eeks out only small gains.
Gold and silver are rising gradually. Can't be long for gold to breach old high.
News is great: Libya in open civil war with government disintegrating, RBS misses. German GDP was good and in line.
So inflation, instability, geopolitical risk, equities selling off, dollar weak, treasuries weakening. Gold and silver only safe bet
Just when we thought it could not get more insane, it actually does. Obama should have made the speech in side a buggy car with an umbrela, then Gaddfi would have looked less mad.
And i wont even go in to the moral hazard of rewarding people who borrowed too much, whilethe rest of sat on side lines watching the madness of it all.
Not requiring an appraisal will streamline things too, ok ........................ ;-)
It all makes perfect sense as long as you understand who the government is trying to help.
On one hand you have a group of investors who collectively made bad loans and are fighting over who should bear the losses.
On the other hand you have a group of consumers who collectively overpromised to overpay for overpriced houses, which they can't really afford to do.
Setting aside their disputes among themselves, the collective interests of the investors is to maximize recovery of the bad loans.
The collective interests of the consumers is to get out of their ill-judged past promises to overpay for overpriced houses, and instead rent or buy market-priced housing, so they can increase their disposable incomes and their retirement savings, which given the government's failure to fund social security is going to be very important for their future living standards.
The government proposal is to subsidize incentives for the consumers to re-commit to overpaying for overpriced houses, but slightly less, which maybe if they live austerely and save nothing for retirement they can just barely afford. By keeping more people paying on underwater mortgages, the proposal also props up the value of the houses which are the collateral for the loans that will foreclose anyway, and thus increases recovery.
You just have to understand who the government is trying to help here.
The cost of those writedowns won't be borne by investors who purchased mortgage-backed securities, these people said…
Banks get off after getting massive bailouts. Home owners get a few dimes. How is this different from certain Mid East countries giving the peeps a few thousand to keep from rioting?
$2000 seems like a bank fee of $800 and a reduction of $1200 or the other way around
Homes for votes. Middlemen get double.
Taxpayers get nothing but a gun to the head.
Put the squeeze on the working man, there's a little juice left.
SPLAT.
Weather is not good so WMT and HPQ missed.
AL QAEDA is too bad and caused high oil prices.
So Oh_bama doesn't have choice other than helping the mortgage borrowers!
have some sympathy guys. Those borrowers didn't do anything wrong, they were just a little bit more eager to gamble a few years back, pushed up prices, and priced honest people out of the housing market. That is not sin and we need to save them!!
julian assange extradition done
http://dawnwires.com/politics/julian-assange-extradition-to-sweden-is-approved/
This article is much ado about absolutely nothing.
How is this any different from the banks accepting a short sale?
Hell, a short sale SUPPOSEDLY costs the banks big bucks, yet it's happening every day and you're getting your knickers in a twist about 2 grand?
Please.
This is a sop to the working man, nothing more. The house will STILL go to the bank, as $2 thou a house isn't going to help a single underwater homeowner.
Who here thinks a paltry $2K, barely more than a OZT of gold today, and soon to be less than the price of a American Gold Eagle, will save even one mortgage from failure, or even make a slight difference in how underwater they are? At best it is a bribe, a cheap one, at worse it is like pleading guilty to a lesser crime. The banksters need to go to jail. Not pay out bribes, then get bailed out again by the taxpayers. It reminds me of the $300 stimulus that Pelosi and Bush gave out at the start of all this shit. I got the money, tax time I paid it back. Or Obummers tax 'reduction' making work pay. My withholding went down, which I paid back at tax time, plus extra. When the government wants to give something, get out the vasoline.
This is a perfect measure of the contempt in which the peons are held by the overlords. $12 trillion + to bail out the banksters; $20 billion for homeowners.
Put another way, a $12 trillion jubilee for the banksters; a $20 billion jubilee for everyone else - 1/10th of 1% of what the banksters get.
Is anybody mad yet? Mad enough to actually do anything, that is?
http://strikelawyer.wordpress.com/2011/01/15/amending-the-constitution-t...
http://strikelawyer.wordpress.com/2011/01/15/us-constitution-28th-amendm...
http://strikelawyer.wordpress.com/2011/01/15/28th-amendment-first-and-se...
http://strikelawyer.wordpress.com/2011/01/16/28th-amendment-section-3/
And there are a few other related posts as well.
Who could even have guessed that our fate under Obama, the neo-cons, and the other MultiCultists/globocapitalists would be that of Detroit, Brazil, Rhodesia, South Africa? Total surprise.
Again, ZH is blaming the puppet not puppeteer. Obama has definitely his share of guilt, but he's bought since he announced his candidacy.
The real gov is sitting on WS slowly dissecting the middle class, which is the only one able to fight for it's interests.
Mass pauperization is the most effective way to control the sources and politics. MSM gone to hell, Murdoch is like Berlusconi owning the most media in country. I don't see any light at the end of the tunnel.