Some Afternoon Confusion

Tyler Durden's picture

Can someone please explain to us what the nature of this post is: “Zero Edge” — Rebutting Faulty Tax Analysis" which appeared today on Barry Rithholtz' blog. We are confused by the whole premise of some guy called called Matt Trivisonno taking offense at our unadjusted and unredacted tax withholdings data, and saying we are misrepresenting something or another. What is more confusing to us is that we have never read anything by Mr. Trivisonno before. Matt, not sure what the problem is - we are merely showing that the Treasury is collecting less money in taxes than it did in 2009. And as for contrarians, we were focusing on the puppets of the government such as Steve Liesman who were making these false claims (at least on an actual cash flow basis - I am sure your adjustments will lead you to whatever conclusion you desire). Period. I am happy to share the primary data with you or anybody else: it is all public and anybody can grab the data directly from the Treasury. If Matt wishes to challenge what the raw data is showing, we are happy to open a forum to him on Zero Hedge. We will post an update on the ongoing deterioration in gross tax withholdings (actual, unrecasted, unmodified or seasonally adjusted) shortly.

That said, we are very amused by Barry's distinction between his blog and ZH. To wit:

ZH is a blogger who covers Wall Street.
I am a Wall Streeter who blogs.

Barry is too kind, although since we cover Wall Street, and Barry considers himself a "Wall Streeter", does that mean we should be covering him as well? Thanks for the heads up! We are lucky that Barry points out what Wall Streeters do: "While he was typing, I was speaking to our clients, doing a Tech
Ticker interview for Yahoo, a radio interview, and then making
arrangements with NBC World News Tonite." So that's what Wall Streeting is? We will make a note.



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Cistercian's picture

 Being bleeding edge and right makes enemies.Especially out of no talent sycophant cretins

drwells's picture

"Wall Streeters" often confuse brains with a bull market in corruption and political capture.

Canucklehead's picture

Barry is otherwise known as the Naked WallStreeter.  You know, like the Naked Cowboy only he has a briefcase instead of a guitar to cover his speedos.

Cursive's picture

Phuck Barry Ritholtz and the shetland pony he rode in on.  I used to be a TBP regular.  Barry pissed me and most of his other regulars off in Fall of 2009.  The seminal event was that he declined an invite to speak before Congress because he didn't want to waste his time.  Well, a lot of fine people gave their blood, sweat and tears so that Mr. Ritholtz could enjoy his time.  Thank God ZH came along.

Problem Is's picture

Buy Ritholtz's book (sarcasm)...

Barry knows all, sees all and IS the smartest guy in the room. Just ask him. He'll tell you...

Nicodemus's picture

Amusingly both Rithholtz and Trivisonno take a pretty nice beating in the comment section of his own blog.  Trivisonno ends up losing all credibility.  Towards the end of the blog one reader sums it up pretty well...

"As for Matt – I hope you are in your teens or early twenties. Your hyper defensive and belittling responses are unseemly for anyone who has outgrown the “I’m always right” age."

theworldisnotenough's picture

At least he is swinging up. I guess he needs the traffic...

hungrydweller's picture

Wow!  GO ZH!  Nice link Mr. Dissonance.  Thanks.

nonclaim's picture

ZH Yearly Change: +54,730.87%

I think that is how much we all gained in knowledge.

hedgeless_horseman's picture

It is not an efficient use of efffort for the intelligent to pick on the retarded, as there are so many of the retarded.  Let it rest, Tyler, and get used to it. 

Nice response, CD.

Cheers and may you find solice, as I have tonight, retarded by EtOH via 2x the following:

2 oz cognac

1/2 oz yellow chartreuse

1/2 oz lemon juice

1/2 oz gomme syrup

dash of angastora bitters

shake and serve in a Waterford crystal deep champagne saucer (Kildare pattern-God bless Wolfe Tone).

By the way, all of you, it is a fair chance today is payday for you, so...

Enjoy the self-determined-variable-subscription-rate offer while it lasts.



dnarby's picture

That would make a sweet pair trade.

Problem Is's picture

"This comparison of web traffic says it all."


Rithholtz Rationalizes

Rithholtz: "But my book is BRILLIANT. Why would they read ZH when they could pay me for my pompous pontifications? I AM the next Thomas Friedman... don't those dickweed ZH readers know anything?"

casino capitalism's picture

I read that earlier today.  Frankly, I didn't pay much attention.  Rest assured you have a lot of credibility with people like me who are thankful for you exposing the reality of our casino financial system.  Forget about it.

sporb's picture

ZH really is the best one. I haven't seen a better one. 

Bill DeBurgh's picture

I stopped reading the Big Picture months ago. 90% of the posts are dull drivel. This site kicks Barry's ass sideways.

Hansel's picture


Ritholtz used to do good work.  Then he got clients and stopped doing good work.  I quit reading when all his posts started being about how many different times a day you could see his fat face on TV, or what music he listens to, or him pumping his book, or how great his new proprietary software is and why you should give him your money, or his "open threads" where he asks the internet to do all his work for him.  He sucks now.

drwells's picture

Once you're raking in the $ pontificating on the idiot box and the book tours, there's no need for further thinking. And having to listen to CNBS for 15 minutes (even if it was me being interviewed) would probably cut my IQ by half.

johngaltfla's picture

I like Ritholtz but it was a cheap shot. He's better than that.

perchprism's picture


The comments by both Mr. Trivisonno and Ritholtz are deliberately calculated to spark a feud with "Zero edge" a conspiracy-theory blog.



johngaltfla's picture

Conspiracy theory blog? Just because Tyler and Co. are nice enough to let the moonbats post here does not make it a conspiracy blog, hell, I let some post at my site because they play by the rules also. But this is no conspiracy blog. Often times FACTS are displayed here along with some very prescient market analysis that many others refuse to address.

Tyler's place kicks ass.


dnarby's picture

Not very smart to drive traffic to someone who's clearly DRINKING YOUR MILKSHAKE!



Citizen of an IKEA World's picture

Drinks his milkshake?  Hell. is fucking his couch.

hungrydweller's picture

No.  But you can bet his underlings read them - with ZeroHedge at the top of the list!

Crime of the Century's picture

I stopped reading the Big Picture months ago.

Me too - hence the sniping. He knows where his readers went...

Optimystic's picture

Barry Rithholz is a paid lackey!  He is a corrupt as they come .........he and Gary Weiss are big buddies!

Cursive's picture

There is something to this.  Months ago I read something linked from Deep Capture that put Barry Ritholtz at the center of (if memory serves) stock market manipulation.  Interested if you have any details.


ETA: Svendtrift has the link a few posts down the page!

10044's picture


jdrose1985's picture

ZH is blowing the competition away. Enough said.

nmewn's picture

LOL...+ a quadrillion.

Barry lost me with his incessant self promotion...a TRUE contrarian predictor if there ever was the immortal words of Mencken;

"...the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard" ;-)

GS is short Gold's picture

Ritholtz is just jealous. ZH probably does 10x the traffic BP does these days. Barry's research is excellent, but obviously he comes here for half his info.

Pat Shuff's picture

$10,000 says your wrong, a matchup between one of my least favorites and lesser favorites, may the best man win.

Last time BR offered $10k money-your-mouth-is (CRA caused it) was with a blogger who drives an '85 Accord in need of repair.

Biff Malibu's picture

your ripping on somebody for having the intelligence of buying a honda accord and then being able to drive the piss out of it???  

Pat Shuff's picture

No. The car and blog are older than BR('s.)

girl money's picture

I think I see what see what Trivisonno is trying to graph, but, this being a YOY comparison, if you stack the first two bars in his graph, both under the zero line, then compare with the third bar, which is above the zero line, the difference is a picture of how much lower the tax receipts are YTD compared to 2009.

He's trying to point out that there appears to be an overall improvement because the last four weeks show a 2.97% YOY improvement over the period that included the crash of March 2009.

Disagree with his conclusions, though... for an overall improvement, you need to stick to YTD YOY comparison, not slice it up for convenience. 

percolator's picture

A while back I made a comment on TBP that Mish ripped apart one of his posts.  BR didn't like that and ever since none of my comments are accepted. 

I still go there to read some of his posts, but its less frequently.  Today he had a post saying that bloggers have it ass backwards when they claim people who are not paying their mortgage are contributing to the uptick in consumer spending.

This is a ridiculous comment by BR, how can 7.8 million people not paying their mortgage not be spending at least some of this money on retail purchases?

What are they doing with this money?  Its surely isn't be saved based on the savings rate though some of it is being used to pay down debt.  So that doesn't leave many other options for this money to go.

I've also noticed he seems to be quite arrogant and self righteous of late.  I think his bottom call has gone to his head.

call me ahab's picture

"I think his bottom call has gone to his head."

no doubt

dead hobo's picture

Hi, buddy.

I finally capitulated, this time for sure. There's too much self promotion going on over there. I'm tired of trying to educate him. He can now go back to pondering magic charts without fear of ridicule, although I have to admit it was loads of fun pointing out the weaknesses in so many of his arguments. Usually it was easier than catching fish out of a barrel. I wonder if his car has a bumper sticker "Support you local financial advisor" or "10% to God; 2 and 20 to His Assistant"?

On TBP, BR was the perfect straight man. He would lob soft balls that were so easy to hit out of the park, it became addictive to write snarky crap over there. Oh well, everyone has to grow up eventually so now I plan associate with the adults. It's not as much fun as TD runs a much higher quality joint and my shtick doesn't work here. 

PS: I think I recall several bottom calls, his memory is a little selective.

call me ahab's picture


the way BR is shaping up in my mind is more of a pundit-  he definitely does put some stuff out there that beg for rebuttal-

but maybe that's his shtick-  he hasn't banned me yet-  so he has that going for him-

the dude can be pretty damn funny though- that's always a plus in my book- and he lets you know what he thinks w/o the sugar coating- which is also a plus-

and he is willing to take criticism- which means- although a big ego- it is not fragile






John Law's picture

This is just a guess, but with the level of information and analysis on this site I would be willing to bet Mr. Durden is a bigger and more powerful wall streeter or former wall streeter than Mr. Rithholtz.

Biff Malibu's picture

Not to start a financial blog war, Barry has some good pieces and I check his site maybe once a week, but he is nothing but pompous self-promotion of his book.  He's the kind of guy that I'd like to have behind me in his fancy car when I'm driving my '85 Ford Dually 1/2 ton pickup and spray gravel all over him.  But alas, I don't have a '85 Ford Dually....  while currently Google is my homepage, Zero Hedge is the link I click on first every time I sit down at the computer.  They have opened my eyes and proven to me things that I thought were happening, but as an American steeped in Patriotism, I could not believe that one American would do to another.  they have proven to me that it is up to me to watch my own A$$ and trust no one when it comes to finances.  Thank you ZH!!!!  

Uber Pwnage!


merehuman's picture

same here. Zerohedge is the best site period!

TwoJacks's picture

Barry is a television personality who knows a little about the market. talks a lot