• George Washington
    09/05/2010 - 22:40
    When did it start? When will it end?
  • Cognitive Dissonance
    09/05/2010 - 15:45
    We should not adopt positions or beliefs that oppose the Ponzi simply because it’s contrary to the Ponzi. Doing so just shifts the illusion of control to us, but still leaves us dancing to the Ponzi beat. Our views should be adopted only after rigorous examination and vetting. This is the only way to a truly peaceful, free and sovereign life.
  • asiablues
    09/05/2010 - 18:06
    The back-to-back super-sized traffic jams near Beijing has landed China on the top spot among the cities with the world's worst traffic. While the world seems quite fixated on the length--miles and number of days--of these mega jams near Beijing, there's also a serious message--the under-capacity of China’s infrastructure.

Some Friday Socialism Courtesy Of The FDIC, Ahead Of Bank Failure Friday

Tyler Durden's picture




In an act unprecedented nobility, granted using other people's money, the FDIC sent out a release today, encouraging its loss-share partners who have acquired failed banks on the back of taxpayers' footing the bulk of the balance sheet risk and cost, essentially guaranteeing profits for these same partners, to "consider temporarily reducing mortgage payments for borrowers who are unemployed or underemployed." The FDIC's recommendation: "to reduce the loan payment to an affordable level for at least six months." And the kicker, once again subsidized by those taxpayers who live within their means yet do not find it critical to live in a house they can not afford: "losses incurred in subsequent foreclosures or short sales are covered losses."

So there you have it - yet another wealth redistribution program courtesy of a late Friday release by the administration. Money flowing from taxpayers, stupid enough to be responsible with their money (and, heaven forbid, to have dollar denominated savings that Chairman Ben wants to see dead not alive) end up funneling their money to the FDIC on three occasions: i) first to eat the bulk of the cost associated with any bank failure, while the good assets are covertly shifted over to "loss-share partners", ii) to have these same loss-share partners not charge full mortgages of those individuals who, following the American dream, and the American max the credit card plan, are unable to afford living in a house, yet who find themselves in that 16.8% of unemployed or underemployed category, and iii) to foot the final bill when inevitably, after 6 months, these same individuals redefault once again.

The full press release here:

As part of its loss-share agreement with acquirers of failed FDIC-insured institutions, the FDIC is encouraging its loss-share partner institutions to consider temporarily reducing mortgage payments for borrowers who are unemployed or underemployed. This program will provide additional foreclosure prevention alternatives to these borrowers through forbearance agreements that will give them an opportunity to regain full employment and avoid an unnecessary foreclosure.

"With more Americans suffering through unemployment or cuts in their paychecks, we believe it is crucial to offer a helping hand to avoid unnecessary and costly foreclosures. This is simply good business since foreclosure rarely benefits lenders and would cost the FDIC more money, not less," said FDIC Chairman Sheila C. Bair. "This is a win-win for the borrower, who can remain in his or her home while looking for a new job, and the acquiring institution, which continues to receive payments on the loan. Ultimately, by reducing losses under our loss-share agreements, this approach helps reduce losses to the FDIC as well."

 

The recommendation to loss-share partners applies where unemployment, or underemployment, is the primary cause for default on a home mortgage. In such cases, the FDIC is urging its loss-share partners to consider the borrower for a temporary forbearance plan, reducing the loan payment to an affordable level for at least six months. The monthly payment during this period should be established based on an affordable payment – given the borrower's circumstances – and it should allow for reasonable living expenses after payment of mortgage-related expenses. The reductions in mortgage payments during a temporary forbearance period are not covered losses under the loss-share agreement with the FDIC, though losses incurred from subsequent permanent loan modifications are covered. If the home preservation efforts are ultimately unsuccessful, losses incurred in subsequent foreclosures or short sales also are covered losses.

 

Acquirers of failed insured institutions who agree to a loss-share arrangement with the FDIC must abide by the FDIC Mortgage Loan Modification program for assets purchased from the failed institution. The program's objective is to modify the terms of certain residential mortgage loans to improve affordability, increase the probability of performance, allow borrowers to remain in their homes and increase the value of the loans to the FDIC and assignees. The program provides for the modification of "qualifying loans" – those that meet certain criteria – by reducing the borrower's monthly housing debt to income ratio (DTI ratio) to no more than 31 percent at the time of the modification and eliminating adjustable interest rate and negative amortization features.

In a nutshell - socialism - FDIC style.

5
Your rating: None Average: 5 (14 votes)



by bonddude
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 13:55
#66553

So I guess those payment reductions reduce the value of the MBSs those mortgages were packaged into?

Ring, Ring "Hello, Mr. FASB?"

by Veteran
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 13:57
#66558

The beatings will continue until morale improves

by Big Al
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 13:59
#66561

Tyler

Is the reimbursement of "covered losses" limited to just lost principal or does it include reimbursement of accrued interest as well?

by Anonymous
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:01
#66566

Should be interesting weekend:

On the Edge with . . . Rob Kirby
http://maxkeiser.com/

by Anonymous
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:01
#66569

The banks will NOT reduce the payments for even 1 bill cycle. Who is the FDIC kidding? the banks have the consumers right where they want us.

by thegreatsatan
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:40
#66630

does this include foreign banks as well?

 

sorry, wrong reply to.

do we get bonus points for naming names? (cough keycorp)

by deadhead
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 15:11
#66706

greatsatan...could you please expand a bit?  I'm genuinely confused and quite interested.  thank you.

by thegreatsatan
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 15:52
#66792

thought this was interesting

 

my original reply was meant for the over/under hope that clears the confusion

by deadhead
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 19:15
#67005

got it...thanks for the explanation.

i picked up that optionmonster article on google finance earlier and got curious.....key simply has not participated in most of the banking rally and that kind of put activity one week away from opex is notable.  i understand their problems like that of other regionals (key has cre issues naturally, plus some c&i as i understand) and wonder if perhaps they are a candidate for our fdic friday party, particularly given what appears to be their tbtf status.

by thegreatsatan
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 20:35
#67109

well theres always next week :)

by Miles Kendig
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 15:15
#66710

Accepted.

But, it wasn't.. who is key's daddy?

by TumblingDice
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:02
#66570

Over under for this week is 4 ; Place your bets.

by D.O.D.
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:04
#66577

under

by VegasBD
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:24
#66606

ill take the over.

anyone here work at FDIC? how many banks can you close on a weekend, logistically?

 

by SilverIsKing
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:38
#66636

7/31 - 5

8/7 - 3

8/14 - 5

8/21 - 4

8/28 - 3

9/4 - 5

9/11 - ???

With an over/under of 4, 4 is not an option.  I am going with 4 anyway.

by Big Al
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:44
#66645

The maximum so far is 6.  And that's only because the FDIC closed a bank holding company that had multiple bank charters.    

FYI  The banks owned by a bank holding company are cross liable - meaning that if bank holding company owns 3 banks and bank 1 is closed, banks 2 and 3 have to reimburse the DIF for any losses incurred in closing bank 1.  The reimbursement usually makes banks 2 and 3 insolvent, so the FDIC closes all three banks at once  

by D.O.D.
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:49
#66658

Ohhh, hay woe woe woe... I was not told this before... but I stick with under...

by Miles Kendig
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 15:18
#66695

Duplicate

by Hephasteus
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:11
#66589

http://www.321gold.com/fed/temp_bank_res.html

 

I'm saying under. Probably 3.

 

Gold market is about to be ripped to shreads. I don't think China can afford to buy on dips any more and will likely try to open the firehose just a bit wider. That will set off americans running to gold here which will drain banks and money market funds. I think china is close to having enough supply that full out buying will inflate their assets enough to justify it. So it looks pretty calm right now from the discount window. The can is kicked further down the road.

by SilverIsKing
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:28
#66616

Ripped to shreds?  That sounds like gold @ $900 but on the other hand, you say "That will set off americans running to gold here..."

Please clarify your take on things.  Thanks.

by Hephasteus
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:42
#66643

No. I'm just guessing here but I can't see gold EVER seeing $960 again even under the most brutal liquidation. The discount window is heavy but not as heavy as it should be so the propaganda machine is working some so they will likely feel comfortable leaving dead banks out in public. Ripped to shreds doesn't mean drop in gold it means people fighting in aisles to get limited supplies of PS3's at christmas type of ripped to shreds.

If you think of all of humanity as being made up of 3 basic components. Those in the spiritual stage of developement, those in the individuated stage of developement and those in the herd state. The spiritual and individuated are able to control the herd if they are bent that way or stick outside the herd and look at what is going on. The herd state is unable to disconnect themselves from the herders. It's like if you take 2 dogs and keep them together and they become good friends. When one acts afraid of lightening the other picks up the fear and eventually learns to be scared of the lightening. When the gold market gets pummeled then the main avenue to steal wealth from the distorted perception of the illusory not adding up monetary system becomes threatened and the herd will respond. That's the problem with control. It works both for you and against you.

by SilverIsKing
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:58
#66685

Thanks.  I agree.  It's just a matter of time before the lid is blown off and in my gut, I feel we are getting very close.

by Anonymous
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:24
#66607

8

by curbyourrisk
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:47
#66653

Over.  7 is my lucky number.

by deadhead
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 15:12
#66707

i'm going over with 6.

 

by Miles Kendig
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 15:18
#66719

corus.. y/n?

by deadhead
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 15:52
#66795

i say no on corus....they are really trying to do that split up maneuver and from the fdic perspective it's much like the old rolling stones hit...."time, time, time is on my side, yes it is!"

by Miles Kendig
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 16:54
#66856

Corus is a rack 'em and stack 'um proposition... You should know this DH

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x18v7u_rolling-stones-time-is-on-my-sid...

by thegreatsatan
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 16:55
#66885

by deadhead
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 18:40
#66974

I'm wrong (again)!!  just checked fdic dot gov...corus is out.

by Miles Kendig
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 15:17
#66712

I'll work the $ line.  +/- 1.7B  what are you covering?

by zarrmax
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 16:08
#66818

over/over.....I'm saying 5 closed costing the FDIC $2.6b

by Miles Kendig
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 16:30
#66851

I'll take the under this week.  $10 straight..  Odds +/_ to ur content

by Miles Kendig
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 20:41
#67117

zarmax.. where R U...?!

by deadhead
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 18:45
#66975

Layne....UNBELIEVABLE!!

from the fdic email re: Corus: The FDIC estimates that the cost to the Deposit Insurance Fund (DIF) will be $1.7 billion.

are you really Sheila Bair?? LOL!!

by Miles Kendig
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 19:08
#66999

She be runnin' High Sreet and Foothill like a hoe on da run from the 'hound. hehe

by Miles Kendig
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 19:13
#67001

Gotta love the DH brother man.  You know I have the grocery.. That makes 3 in a row!!!   hehehe

ZARMAX... My Paypal is a waitin' 4 ya..... WhoT!  WhoT!

by D.O.D.
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 16:00
#66806

DOH! I lose, it was 5.... just more proof I am just an angry unemployed loser... I can't even get failure right....

by Miles Kendig
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 16:51
#66879

by D.O.D.
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 18:53
#66983

Hellz yeah, wurd, ya huRRRRd!  Goin' on my iphone! They don't spit it like this no more...

Thanx Layne!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izB85LUlygE

by Miles Kendig
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 19:05
#66994

the 046 off E-14 & Highland.... Original..

Irish curse my a**!

by D.O.D.
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 19:10
#67000

Ohhh got it, I was looking at the updated date, not the closing date, so there were only 2 closures this week I guess.. soooo I win!  woooo hoooo, my self esteem is back, I'm goin' to the club to celebrate with a fuzzy bunny!!!

by Miles Kendig
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 19:37
#67016

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_SppSYMdbk

hehe.. Not a bit of skyline my a**\BTW.. WhoT!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z55qz9K_2A&feature=related

It iz what it be z!

by Miles Kendig
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 19:39
#67030

 

The Thizzle Wiggle!  ha

by MinnesotaNice
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 19:39
#67031

You two should be very, very ashamed of yourselves  :-)   But I suppose boys will be boys :-)

by D.O.D.
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 19:49
#67042

uhhhh that's Boizzzz if you please... big difference!

(hint: it's the price of their toizzz)

by Miles Kendig
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 20:16
#67072

girlz be more that that!!!  hehehheheh

by MinnesotaNice
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 20:42
#67121

You boizzz are too much tonight...

by D.O.D.
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 19:54
#67045

Layne, I'm hip to yo stizzle, and pickin' up whatcha puttin' down!

Are you from/in the Bay area, or just down with Mac D.?

******

from early 80's to tha 90's and beyond, from Mac to Doc, still...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-afioLMcEc

by Miles Kendig
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 20:11
#67066

 

 

I B the 510 from the day with THE MST...... Northside.. Alston Way in the day...

Mn Nice.. Ya.. I suppose.. Until you have been there... Then I know you would be standing... Your packet sayz so...

Peace Lil-sister..  I will run point when it comes down

by D.O.D.
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 20:18
#67076

I used to live down in North Beach, at the end of Columbus, best bread in the world, or at least the world that I've been, on Leavenworth between Beach and Jefferson, forgot the name of the place... man I miss that city...

by Miles Kendig
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 20:39
#67107

 

 

 

Who woudda have ever thought until 046 became the way...

Alston 1700 block.. Ashley... Ya .. I know...  Then the hills... Until I became a black sheep... Then the 089...; Nor by Nor West... hehe MnNice... We're still here and are so are you... peace... lilun

Remember... As they say in the city... C.R.E.A.M.   hehehehe

by Hephasteus
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 21:03
#67147

You're doing alot of things right D.O.D. Just might know it yet.

by MountainHawk
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:03
#66572

Speaking of socialism... T - 30 till PPT comes on to save the day...

by Anonymous
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:03
#66574

I want to go back 5 years, play NINJA, and buy up 5 or 10 houses that I can't possibly afford, so I can pick which one to live in at a socialized rent rate today.

Ironically, it is easy to screw people who actually work, because they have to be at work when they would otherwise be marching with pitchforks...

If anyone find's Galt's Gulch, please contact me privately.

by Anonymous
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:39
#66637

You don't find Galt's Gulch, Galt finds you.

by Anonymous
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:51
#66667

You don't find Galt's Gulch, Galt finds you.

by aldousd
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 16:01
#66808

Wouldn't that be nice? :D

 

I'm going for the under. 

by Anonymous
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 17:34
#66932

Costa Rica. I live there...or do I mean "here". I reckon it's as close as you can get!
I am NOT a real estate agent but I would be happy to share info with you. e mail me rosfreed@yahoo.com

by Anonymous
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:04
#66576

Can't take down a population culled by survival of the fittest. This way the strength and prudence of the few are so diminished by the many weak, that once sufficient time lapses; the whole system just falls over.

No need to conquer, just inbreed the weak, exhaust the solvent.

by bpj
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:05
#66580

Does anyone even care anymore?

 

by bpj
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:05
#66581

Does anyone even care anymore?

 

by lizzy36
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:09
#66586

It is the money honey's 45th b-day today.  looks like she celebrated with some really shitty tiger highlights (was she going for suburban cougar?) and some really good botox.

by Big Al
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:47
#66652

Suburban?  Doesn't she live in Manhattan??

by Miles Kendig
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 15:20
#66722

She does not know Libby.  That's for sure

by They steal from...
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:10
#66587

Socialism starts at the top.

by Anonymous
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:14
#66593

WTF!!!! Why wouldn't banks go for it and drop the payments now for every unemployed, at-risk homeowner? For that short-term payment drop, the bank now gets to turn a toxic mortgage into a treasury, no?

Or am I not getting it?

by sondog
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:22
#66604

When they say it's covered I think they mean where they have already agreed to backstop loans. But what do I know? This is all changing constantly and no one gets the real data on losses backstopped by the government anyway!

 

I'm in Canada. Why you guys haven't blockaded every road into DC is beyond me.

 

by VegasBD
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:49
#66638

American Idol is still on and McDonalds is still open. The riots will start when those go dark. Or when a case of beer priced in dollars goes above $50.

by D.O.D.
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:52
#66668

Or when a case of beer is priced at any price in Ameros.

by crzyhun
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:15
#66597

I know this is lame...BOY DO I NEED SOME THICK GORILLA TAPE> STAT.

by Bruce Krasting
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:24
#66608

There was a time that I thought Sheila was okay. She stood up to Paulson and Geithner on a number of points. But this is over the top. She is contributing to the social economic policy. She is making substandard loans. This type of thing is happening at fannie and freddie with 125% ltv refis to troubled borrowers. FHA/Ginnie is making 96%ltv loans.

They are all going nuts with this policy. It will have a beneficial impact in the short term. But unless we get some very big inflation numbers this is all going to explode.

There will be no housing inflation for the next three years. This stuff is all going into default in less than 18 months.

by bonddude
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:35
#66626

ditto

by VegasBD
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:40
#66641

tritto

?

by D.O.D.
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:53
#66672

quatto...

by Miles Kendig
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 15:03
#66691

Add mine.

 

by Anonymous
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:52
#66669

Quitiro? Sorry to be the weak link but this brother is on the real.

by ghostfaceinvestah
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:57
#66682

The really stupid thing about this Bruce it is leads to moral hazard.  I swear to God I am seeing it already in delinquency numbers - people are seeing that other people are getting a deal by not paying their mortgage, so they stop paying.  The delinquency inventory is feeding on itself.

And it makes good sense - stop paying your mortgage, live rent free for two years+.  That is an enormous windfall for most people.  It's like moving back in with your parents, but not.

For that reason I expect prime mortgages at Fannie and Freddie to ultimately hit 20% loss rates for 2004 - 2008 vintages combined.  The housing market is going to be a mess for years.  We won't get real, unsubsidized price appreciation until 2012 at least.  Imagine what that will do, when all the sheeple waiting for the housing market rebound realize it won't come?

What's worse, once the builders think there is any sign of stabilization, they will start adding to inventory.  What a disaster this is going to be.

by Sancho Ponzi
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 15:19
#66720

Every incentive coming out of Washington punishes the decent, responsible citizens and rewards the greedy, irresponsible, criminal and generally clueless.  The motto of this BHO Administration should read:

'Be an irresponsible criminal asshole because it's all on us!' 

The sad part is who pays for 'us'.

by Miles Kendig
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 15:45
#66787

Not just the BHO administration.  Every administration.  It matters not the party.  When it comes to finance, the song remains the same.  Who put Fannie, Freddie, Citi, WFC, BA, JPM, GS, MS, PNC, BBT and the rest on the dole?  Who decided to take MBS, CMBS and other trash a 1:1 swap at the fed for a freshly minted t-bill?  It is all two sides of the same Iridium coin.

Wake up and shun the blue pill my associate.

by Sancho Ponzi
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 16:13
#66829

I am no fan of GW Bush, and will never forget the way he handled Katrina. There have been Presidents in the last 60 years that had principles, and I live in a state where a very honorable Governor was elected to two terms. 

Remember what happened to Bobby Kennedy when he tried to stand up to the mob. We need someone equally courageous to stand up to the banksters and political corruption, and hope he/she does not meet the same fate.

by Miles Kendig
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 16:26
#66849

I was in Oakland the night the news of Bobby came on...  Now I am in Memphis. Imagine that.

The fact of the matter is that this is what ZH is.  You know it, I know it and soon it will just be.  Do what you do and it just will be. Trust and know.

by deadhead
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 15:18
#66721

Well spoken Bruce (as always).

I am genuinely not trying to be a dick on this, but isn't FHA 96.5?  I think they only require 3.5 down, but I could be wrong.  I only say this because I think FHA will implode, a huge percentage of the borrowers are beating the down payment with the tax credit up to 8k, and virtually every scumbag mortgage broker/mortgage banker who wrote through american home loans, new century, wamu, indy, etc. ad infinitum, has found their way to FHA.

 

by Miles Kendig
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 15:36
#66762

DH - Don't worry.  It is being taken care of

by deadhead
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 16:08
#66819

i trust being taken care of means a gs/house of dimon lead IPO of FHA....I'm in for a few thousand shares.  that baby would surely rocket and find its way into a robottrader column!

by Miles Kendig
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 16:20
#66840

{;-]

by thegreatsatan
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 16:44
#66874

you know its gotten to the point that there are no more mortgages that FHA doesn't have a hand in. I refid in May to move out of a 5 year int-only and into a conforming because I figured it was a good idea to get a sub 5% rate and my payment would only go up a few hundred bucks and I would be putting more towards principle, etc. For the amount of time I planned to be in the house it was a good idea and I still had 65% ltv according the recent appraisal. I was kind of amazed that the only loan I could get was via FHA.

by Miles Kendig
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 17:28
#66929

Welcome to the machine....

Keep on workin' it,,,  You will be reflected as a patriot on the ledger.  Just don't ask them to call Heath.

by bjennings
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:26
#66611

I'm all for this plan.  I'm all against bailouts but the second the Fed and gov't committed trillions to the Golman Sachs, Bank of Americas of the world (essentially corporate wellfare) is the second they should open up wellfare to everyone.  If they could manage to claw back every penny they handed out to them and the Cerberus's, GMs and Chrylsers, than they could turn that spigot off.  Besides, while you villify those who cannot make their payments, characterizing them as being too greedy and owning too much house, there are some who simply aren't working and won't be able to afford any house in a while.  I am coming off making $120,000/year and have a $115,000 mortgage.  Is this too much house for my salary?  I think not.  Yet I may face the prospect one day that I can't afford it.  Further, why don't you include in that category of "responsible Americans" the 800,000 Goldman employees on tap to clear $800,000 salary off the taxpayer's back.

by Anonymous
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:50
#66659

please explain how you conclude that "Goldman employees ... clear $800,000 salary off the taxpayer's back"

Goldman Sachs makes money by selling advice (M&A), providing debt and equity capital (M&A, corp fin), client trading, proprietary trading and asset management. In what way are these activities "off the taxpayer's back"?

by ghostfaceinvestah
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:58
#66686

you're kidding, right?  other than the M&A piece, they need capital to conduct those operations.  where do you think the capital came from?

GS would have collapsed if they had not been permitted to become a bank holding company.

by Miles Kendig
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 15:22
#66724

You have a 10K from me on this

by bjennings
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 15:08
#66703

Goldman makes the bulk of their money from their own trade account.  To make money on trades money must be put in play -- our taxpayer money of which 70% of the profits will be redistributed to a tiny few Goldman employees.  When everyone talks about redistribution of wealth let's remember that we have been suffering this sort of redistribution of wealth (socialized losses, privatized gains) for many years.  I can't stand these jackasses that discuss the moral hazard of redistribution of wealth when it goes from the rich to the poor but always seem to overlook the redistribution that is constantly flowing from the poor to the rich.

by deadhead
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 15:21
#66723

I add that GS still has a significant sum (forgot the amount) of bonds it floated for its (prop desk) general business purposes that are backstopped by the FDIC alphabet soup program, the letters of which I forgot but is alleged to be one of the training wheels to be removed in the near future.

i don't usually write run on sentences....

by deadhead
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 15:26
#66734

(excuse me - since we're being a bit racist)

how about everybody avoiding the racist thing and we will stick to facts, figures, and opinions based on those.  I'd like to think the people who read and/or comment in ZH are way too smart to incorporate racism, sexism, etc into the debates.  thanks.

by Miles Kendig
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 15:34
#66752

I join with you, MnNice and others.... Now...

Can I offer you a blunt my brother?  After all, it's Friday

by deadhead
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 15:40
#66775

thx layne....in my younger college days, let's just say that i made john belushi look like an amateur lol!  that said, i stopped all of that stuff including alcohol years ago.

by Miles Kendig
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 16:15
#66832

{;-]

It is what is is.. no need 'splain...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FtgbIQyWxk

by MinnesotaNice
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 16:52
#66882

Nice link for a Friday afternoon to transition into the weekend... thanks...

by Miles Kendig
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 17:19
#66911

                                                                      Anytime Mn Nice.  You said you had my back.  I will run run point for you   Trust me...

Take care Lilun.  I trust you.

by MinnesotaNice
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 17:51
#66941

:-)

by Miles Kendig
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 18:00
#66942

 

 

 

Peace & prosperity be yours

by bjennings
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 15:38
#66769

So would I like to think that the folks at ZH are smarter than that  but when I hear someone slip "the fat black chick" into the thread I get a bit pissed off.  Sorry, I know two wrongs don't make a right.

But my overall point with this whole thread is that even amongst smart, educated people it is too easy for them to frame the little guy with such descriptions as the "the fat black chick" or being greedy or raising the moral hazard but as soon as we decided to bail out the corporations you can throw the moral hazard argument out the window.  The country can't all of sudden grow wisdom then when it comes to bailing out the little guy.  I don't care what the argument is.

by percolator
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 15:52
#66794

Goldman would not even exist today if it were not for the American taxpayer bailing them out last fall:

http://market-ticker.org/archives/1235-Obscene-Profit-You-Stole-It.html

by Anonymous
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:27
#66612

in other words, let's milk the middle class aka paying taxes sheople a little moooooooorrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeee.
coz, sheople are as sheople do.

by jm
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:27
#66613

This isn't socialism... this is a government attempt to put a smiley face on a growing disaster... squatters and defaulters telling the system to fuck off.  The government will lie, cheat, and steal from everyone left standing to create the appearance that everything is under control.     

We had better get the pain over with before it goes from mass default to mass arson.

by Anonymous
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:38
#66635

You nailed it there! Soon, people are going to realize they can out of under water laons by lighting a macth...

by BetterOffDead
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 15:42
#66779

Someone tried it on my block, after two failed auctions...

by sondog
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:28
#66615

Hey somehow Sheila thinks it is a win-win for the homeowner, the FDIC and the lender if everyone stops worrying about the homeowner paying! Please explain what math she is using.

The moral hazard risk is at an all time high. Why would any American with little equity in his house pay the mortgage?

by ghostfaceinvestah
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 15:05
#66697

They shouldn't.  I see it every day, people going literally years delinquent on their mortgage.  if you have no skin in the game, stop paying and stay in place.  do the math, the loss of credit score is overwhelmed by the value of saving money by not paying a mortgage.

by docj
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:29
#66617

Awesome.

Now let me reach for my (nearly depleated) tube of KY...

by thegreatsatan
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:32
#66620

it really pisses me off that I played by the rules and have to subsidze my asshole neighbor who hasnt made a payment in 12 months, and who also makes more money than I do, becuase he cash-out refi'd a half dozen times to buy a motor home, a porsche, and a cabin at big bear.

I never touched my equity because I didn't consider it real money until the house was sold. Its like tha fat black chick on TV after Obama won saying she wouldnt have to worry about paying her bills. Bitch was right.

When is someone going to tell the banks to go choke on a dick already?

by docj
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:39
#66639

"I'm not gonna haf to worry bout puttin gas in my car.  I'm not gonna haf to worry about my mortgage.  Cause ya know if I hep him... he's gonna hep me"

Behold!  The voice of Obamanation.

Well fellow sucker, I hear you - but that's what we get for "playing by the rules".

by MountainHawk
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:41
#66642

And I laughed when I saw that cliff, now I see the joke's on me!

by Miles Kendig
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:54
#66660

No matter, lost, ignorant or stupid, the joke usually is on us.  Welcome to the club!

 

by bjennings
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 15:03
#66694

This is your version of moral hazard.  My version of moral hazard is that (excuse me - since we're being a bit racist) is the f@cking jew at Goldman who was largely responsible for the financial collapse is now being rewarded by keeping his/her job and with an extra kicker will have record compensation this year.  You want to talk about moral hazard now it's a bit too late.  Should have been talking about that a year ago.

by thegreatsatan
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 16:47
#66876

i didnt see anything I said as being racist. she was a fat black chick, its a statement of fact. I don't play the "hyphenated-American" game.

by Assetman
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:37
#66629

Let me see if can get this straight:

1) If you are a loss share partner with the FDIC after acquiring a failed bank, you are totally covered in the event that property is foreclosed.

2) The FDIC will NOT cover any losses on efforts of the loss share partner to reduce mortgage payments in the event someone is unemployed or underemployed-- albeit during a "forebearance" period.

3) Yet the FDIC is recommending/encouraging #2, while the bank has every incentive to follow through on #1, since that's the path to guaranteed limted losses. 

#2 will save the FDIC money... but why would a loss partner bank care one iota about that?  Especially when their losses are already fully covered.

Yes, indeed... socialism does start at the top.

 

 

by Anonymous
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:39
#66640

Global Fascism - Trilateral Style

http://letthemfail.us

by Miles Kendig
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:48
#66650

The more things change, the more they stay the same. Welcome to the "weekend" my associates. The song remains the same.  

by curbyourrisk
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:50
#66661

Gun the close.....close at 9650.

by jswede
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 14:58
#66683

>> The FDIC's recommendation: "to reduce the loan payment to an affordable level for at least six months."  <<

 

As long as the FDIC/gov't keeps thinking this is a monthly CASH-FLOW problem and not an EQUITY problem, we'll only get deeper into this....

 

Sorry, lowering a payment by $200/mo won't do much when you're $300k underwater...

by ghostfaceinvestah
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 15:07
#66702

Exactly.  We had an asset bubble, and it has burst.

by Miles Kendig
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 15:23
#66729

Playing the crisis of liquidity vs confidence game... still

by glenlloyd
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 15:02
#66690

"...that will give them an opportunity to regain full employment and avoid an unnecessary foreclosure."

Sounds like they expect the unemployment situation to be short-lived. Common sense says otherwise.

Isn't this just another attempt to "kick the can" down the road? I see no benefit other than to postpone the inevitable.

I bought a house I could afford back in 1990...with no plans to "upgrade" or live beyond my means. It's paid for and I'm happy about that. I take great exception now having the rules changed for those who bought more than they could (should have) qualified for/pay for.

by clotario
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 15:03
#66692

Not socialism, stupidity. They're trying to do good by capitalism but have long since mistaken bending over for Big Money for pro-capitalistic. Pro-capitalist, da, pro-capitistic, nyet.

by Miles Kendig
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 15:30
#66732

Soon these gov't folks will be singing Prosti to us.

by You Cant Handle...
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 15:09
#66704

It's not just people who bought to big of a house for their income.  Lots of people have been laid off and, in case you haven't looked for work lately, there aren't many jobs to be found. 

by reading
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 15:48
#66789

I guess you didn't hear, UE is so yesterday...We have collectively decided that we don't like talking about people not having enough money to spend on anything they want or to pay for their house (that McMansion or just the regular house with the normal mortgage they've had for 10 years)...it's all too depressing.  So now, we just say those are "lagging" indicators the economy is now going to grow by OSMOSIS!  I mean we have a million more jobs than we would have had without spending the trillion dollars on stimulus...doesn't that make you feel better?

No so much for me, but I hear it's working really well out on main street.

 

 

 

 

by BetterOffDead
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 15:35
#66759

What line in the federal budget does this fall under?  Oh right, this is an off-balance sheet guarantee, not recorded in the budget.  Wow, and not even Congressional sign-off!!

by reading
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 15:43
#66783

So did Key Bank buy the assets of Amtrust?  Or do some other sort of take it for free on bank failure friday deal?  Just wondering as I just got back from a Key bank ATM where at 4:21pm I was provided with an Amtrust receipt with the KeyBank Logo on it.  I guess if they didn't go down today that ought to be the final nail in the coffin for them...

by koaj
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 15:52
#66796

i'll go with over 4 this week on bank failures

regarding the press release above, Fuck the FDIC and the banks

thank you and have a nice weekend

Tennessee -10. there's some capitalism for you

by Anonymous
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 16:03
#66812

Currently the FDIC is a quasi government agency and the BIF (Bank Insurance Fund) is funded by premiums paid by banks on their deposits, not taxpayer funds. Until the FDIC goes to Treasury for a bailout - which is probably forthcoming as failures continue - there is no taxpayer money being used for these measures - YET.

by Anonymous
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 16:48
#66878

I'll go with Over 5 banks failed tonight.

I think a total of 6 will fail tonight when it is all over.

FDIC is irrevelant to us now. We have moved everything over to the friendly Credit Union under NCUA. Absolutely wonderful, fee-free and interest rates 5 to 7% for a variety of services.

YAY.

Let the big boys fail and be done with it.

by waterdog
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 16:55
#66887

I feel like I am being gummed to death by the FDIC. They only encouraged that the modifications be made. There is no demand. Who cares about encouragement? Why make a release on something so inane?

There must be some teeth in the FDIC.

by MinnesotaNice
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 17:51
#66935

Great analogy... what does "encouraging its loss-share partners"actually mean?  Sounds like the FDIC is trying to reason with them like a small child... I would assume that if the "loss-share partners" thought this plan would benefit them in the first place... they would have thought of it themselves and already done it.  You can't even tell who the villian is in this comedy sketch... the FDIC or the Banks or the Delinquent Homeowners... will someone please get me a program from the usher.

by Miles Kendig
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 17:11
#66908

Corus is done.  Finnished.  Ultra well done...

http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/

by Anonymous
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 17:12
#66909

Corus - Chicago's soon to be taxpayer funded Miami condo lender - going down later today. MB Financial gets their local branches, according to Crain's Chicago.

by KidDynamite
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 17:49
#66939

Atlas Shrugged come to life again.... soon, we will all pay according to our ability, and be paid according to our NEED

by joebren
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 19:30
#67019

Hey,  I just refi-ed my mortgage to 125% of valuation - and now I can get

my payments modified too. Or maybe I just won't bother making any payments.

Wow, isn't socialism great.

by MinnesotaNice
on Fri, 09/11/2009 - 20:46
#67125

Perfect... go and put a bunch of useless stuff on your credit card like new furniture for the house... then go out and buy a new car... and maybe an RV... then don't make any payments on anything ever... then you will fit in with the new paradigm of our country.

by Anonymous
on Sat, 09/12/2009 - 09:33
#67566

The FDIC is funded by banks or in essence the owners of banks. This site does a disservice by claiming that the taxpayers are funding the bank closures and payouts from the funds.

by Anonymous
on Sat, 09/12/2009 - 11:37
#67666

Yea I thought the FDIC was funded by the member banks and NOT taxpayers? The FDIC has an emergency line of credit from treasury in case the fund goes dry, which it hasn't yet.

I hear a lot of whiney trust fund traders in this thread complaining that the govt is trying to help the little guy just a bit. Distorting the truth to make an ideologically and morally WRONG argument is laughable.

A lot of people have lost their jobs and find themselves in hard straights. If you think its their fault for not bootstrapping themselves into the upper middle class and above levels of prosperity (where surely most members here reside) then you are a fool and you deserve to have your wealth taken away by a socialist. Not that it will ever happen though.

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