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Soros Says "Crisis Far From Over, We Have Just Entered Act 2"
The bearish case has just gotten another notable supporter in the face of George Soros, who during his remarks at a conference in Vienna, said that the "we have only just entered Act II" of the global financial crisis.
Bloomberg reports:
Billionaire investor George Soros said “we have just entered Act II” of the crisis as Europe’s fiscal woes worsen.
“The collapse of the financial system as we know it is real, and the crisis is far from over,” Soros said today at a conference in Vienna. “Indeed, we have just entered Act II of the drama.”
Concern that Europe’s sovereign-debt crisis may spread sent the euro to a four-year low against the dollar on June 7 and has wiped out more than $4 trillion from global stock markets this year. Europe’s debt-ridden nations have to raise almost 2 trillion euros ($2.4 trillion) within the next three years to refinance maturing bonds and fund deficits, according to Bank of America Corp.
“When the financial markets started losing confidence in the credibility of sovereign debt, Greece and the euro have taken center stage, but the effects are liable to be felt worldwide,” Soros said.
One wonders if Soros, who made a name for himself originally in the currency markets, is involved in the current record FX volatility. Of course, with animosity toward "speculators" at unprecedented levels, it probably would not be very prudent of anyone to disclose they are now taking on Central Banks directly.
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"Too Big Too Fail Part Deux By Sorkin". Coming in October 2010
nicely done
I dearly love banker's shills. Only Sorkin could make Dimon, Blankfein & Co. look like world saviors.
Sorkin's idea of undercover investigatory reporting is under the desk or conference room table. Don't forget the chap-stick Sorkin, all that sucking is murder on the lips.
What about the author of "The Psartnershp: The Making of Goldman Sachs" D. Ellis or some shit
Admits in his bio that he was a GS slut from college trying to find a job to support his "high mantence" wife"
His been an PR author for GS and the cartel every since!
What made me shit my pants about a year ago, this auther reintroduces this BS text abpout Goldamna , one year later after the crash, nowwith a new intro and concluding chapter, for all you yuppies jettin somewhere in the world to catch up on , a new , enhanced, beautiful, description of why you just got robbed for 7 large.
Frankly ,, amost every book at Barns in Noible that deals in Fiance,is a lie, from "toobif to fail, " to John Paulson, the trade of decade, into Paulsons momiorss, which I wont ven bother to read.
Ya, , some other books , the authers dont even know te context of the context ofthe contxt....
VIvi vivi printed media,
vii vivi printed media,
Good luck NY Times and Washington Post..
The Digitial age is upon us. Digital records that disappear or chance the facts months later...
Speaking of wher the hell outhe ourchives of ZH. I cant seem to find them??
A friend loaned me the book, saying it was a "great compelling read", but I could only read a few pages, realizing he was treating these scumbags too sympathetically for me. I told him that when I returned the book unread.
Yep. TARP set to expire in Oct. I don't think the TBTF will allow the US gov't to take that 700 Billion and pay down debt. It will be used again.
"pay down debt"? You mean reduce by less than half the additional debt from this year alone, right?
I have always had a real sense of disgust towards the guy (well, many of my friends around the former Yugoslavia know what I'm talking about!) and I do not think the BOE loves him that much either.....
he is one ugly mofo
yeah, much better to continue to let the govt/banks continue to lie and cheat and steal and put out fraudulent financial statements saying everything is just perfect. Yeah, Soros is the bad guy for putting up his own money saying "I dont believe you."
So it's true! George Soros is orchestrating the world economy behind the scenes!
I am Chumbawamba.
Yep, Chum. Georgie may have engineered the panic that got The Maverick in a panic for TARP. Timed for the 08 election. However, he is a great trader, even though many think he's a traitor.
Yeah, Georgie is a great trader. Made couple of billlions against GBP and lost 600 million in JPY. No risk, no fun. His EX Quantum fund manager, Stanley Druckenmiller, lost in the dot com bubble within 2 weeks 40 % of portfolio value. Great trader. No risk, no fun.
MAJOR BULL MARKET INDICATOR
Or not. Buy Au.
Stanley is rumored to say buy gold while at an exclusive Pittsburgh CC recently.
Ex-trader Niederhoffer wiped out in Asian crisis '97. - Ned
Dude's ain't no traitor. He be a Hungarian.
I seem to remember it was Jimbo Rogers who generated the ideas for the Quantum Fund in the first decade. In 1987 the guy in my pic saved Soros' and Druckenmillers asses (See New Market Wizards), J Paulson instructed Soros in 2007. Still, the man has HUGE balls and since he has bundles more of cash than any of us, he must be a great trader even if he doesn't seem to be a great thinker (apart from reflexivity) since he launches all of these commie ideas left and right...
he says
Credit default swaps, which aim to protect bondholders against the risk of a default, are dangerous and a “license to kill,” Soros said today. CDSs should only be allowed if there is an insurable interest, he said
I will give him credit for the most honest description of the situation. I can't buy a fire insurance policy on your home, becasue I might be encouraged to burn it down! But wall st can buy such contracts, and if the world burns down by war for example, look to connect the dots by connecting the CDS contracts, and which cities were insured, etc.
Always follow the money trail as they say. That said, I have always repected anything and everything that comes out of that mans mouth. I just hope he one of the good guys, but my hope is slipping fast.
So then I assume you also think gambling, poker, and slot machines should be illegal too?
Because that's all a "naked CDS" is.. it isn't like a naked short where there is fraud involved. You're just betting against someone else's debt. Why is that a problem?
It's not a problem until taxpayers have to make good the winnings
The problem is lack of capital backing for many CDS contracts. The taxpayer will only be involved because of the government propping up these giants who are effectively committing mass fraud.
Let me ask you this, just because say.. 1% of the population wrote checks for $1 trillion and they didn't have $1 trillion, and the people who took the checks were dumb enough to think they were good even though they were from deadbeats, we should just ban all checks, right?
+1
. . . and the reason there was no capital backing those CDSs was because their counterparties (buyers of protection) had no way of knowing just how ridiculously leveraged their counterparty was w/r/to any particular credit entity or in the aggregate, since the CDS are off-balance-sheet, and therefore had no basis to ask for collateral or other assurance that the protection-seller could pay when the time came. Plus, very likely the buyer of protection was a seller elsewhere in the CDS market and knew that disclosure or collateral was not ultimately in their own best interest (as opposed to the interest of the institution employing them, whose capital they were frying).
No shit, it's just beginning. You are still living in the good times.
Z1 Report just released.
Not good... -$202B(q2q) for Q1 2010 at $52.126T from $52.902T in Q1 2009. Credit system is collapsing.
http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/Current/
To put this in perspective, credit system was generating new credit at a $1.2T (quarterly) in 2007 at the peak, it is now down negative -$202B quarterly. New credit was being generated at around a $4.7T rate, now it is being destroyed at a -$.8T rate (annualized).
Party on Garth.
Fed cares only about asset growth and that was up 1.4% Q|Q and 9.5% Y|Y
They could care about who wins the NBA championship if they want, not going to change what is happening and what will continue to happen.... ie death spiral.
Total credit market debt assets held by is the same numbers.
Cycles and cycles within cycles. Slowly these assets will just become unfunded liabilities.
The only way the Lemmings stop from being converted from an asset to an unfunded liability is to have the power to exponential demand and supply. Eventually liquidation down to the point where the remaining unfunded once again can supply and demand exponentially until the next implosion.... they than get convert from liability to asset once again.
not arguing just saying..bennybucks bonanza
I know man.
:)
Benny is going to get his hat handed to him just like every other supposed Wizard of Oz has.
Nope
Gold will capitalise the banks, it trades inverse to risk now. DOW up 195, gold down 10.
Credit is being destroyed at the -$1.2T rate. But 50 percent is being saved for later and later is coming.
credit ! credit ! credit !
You are worse then Denninger.
Denninger is a smart guy, when the credit system collapses I will gladly lend my gold to him at interest.
oh you're one of those guys who wishes HE could play central banker lol what good is money in the hands of fools?
George Soros is a hypocrit. Simple as that.
> Exit "End of the beginning"...
> Enter "Beginning of the End!".
Nah. Try Churchill:
"This is not the end. This is not even the beginning of the end. But it may be the end of the beginning."
Potatoes potaahtoes... tomatoes tomaahtoes! :)
The End is the Beginning is the End.......
GREAT Smashing Pumpkins song + video!!!!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZApl8-I-itE
would you believe Soros or Leo?
No.
Excellent answer!
Soros doesn't buy Chinese solars.
This isn't anything new from Soros, is it? He's been an outspoken bear, on and off, for years, right? Now, I'm starting to feel like the one who is suffering from oldtimers.
yes he has been. He's been calling for the popping of the "super bubble" aka credit/debt bubble since at least the mid 90's. He's detailed it multiple times in his books, check out "the 2008 credit crisis and what it means" and "the Soros lectures".
I always find it amusing when people think of some dark shroud of evil surrounding Soros. He wears his investment philosophy on his sleeve and has detailed the way he views the markets over and over again. It's old news.....he just happens to be right.
Yeah, Soros has been mega-bearish since '08.
I do recall a speech he gave at Columbia back then during which he warned that the government could collapse.
It's not like this shit is rocket science, folks.
Someone tell Leo!
On the other hand, he did buy a shit-pot full of GLD back sub-$1200.
Soros is so, like, 1990s. Now I listen to Hugh Hendry talk his own book.
During WWII the B-17 was experiencing sudden airborne disintegration during non-combat operations. They finally figured out that at certain altitudes (where the air was thinner) the aircraft would have to speed up to keep enough air flowing over the wings to maintain enough lift to maintain flight. The pilot would have to keep going faster until the plane reached its ‘red-line’ airspeed which was the maximum airspeed the airframe could structurally maintain flight without the wings coming off.
If the pilot didn’t accelerate, the plane would lose lift and fall out of the sky and crash. If he nosed the plane over to gain enough airspeed to keep enough lift, he would pass the red-line airspeed and the wings would come off and crash.
Thus, ‘Coffin’s Corner’ was being in a position that no matter what you did, you were dead. The only way to survive was to not to have gotten that position in the first place.
Our politicians have been running the economy faster and faster. As a result, they have put the country in Coffin’s Corner with massive deficits and debt. The choice is to reduce deficits and crash or increase debt and crash.
Thanks a lot guys.
Perfect analogy, coffin corner. +100
The collapse is not bad news though. The collapse is the only opportunity We The People have had in more than a century to regain control of our country.
I wish I could agree.
But we need to have a working 'liberation' plan at the ready to sell to the sheeple...
You can bet your Crab Cakes TPTB have theirs...
(I've got one BTW but it will require some retooling and tweaking...)
Soros and trichet are old friends. So hell cleanup and continue to play the sentimental philanthropist
He does perform that role rather well doesn't he...
The only problem is we're on the plane.
Then bail with a gold parachute!
Tail gunning. "Hey! Guys! Can you hear me? What do you guys see? Damn it. Guys?"
The tail is the safest place to be in event of a crash!
No, we are not on a plane. We are in space, outside of the ship, and HAL 9000 has locked the door.
HAL: Well, forgive me for being so inquisitive; but during the past few weeks, I've wondered whether you might be having some second thoughts about the mission.
+10
But the crisis ain't over. Far from. The phase we have entered, as I see it, is where the fight against deflation by TPTB shifts to political warfare. Hence today's GOP action in the House to have recourse against strategic defaulters by shutting them out of any future FHA loans.
Nice metaphor!
But they don't use planes; now it's helicopters.
As the old ditty went,
Frig the Flying Fortress and pray that she'll abort,
I'd rather be at home than in a friggin Flying fort.
just nose up, lose lift, fall to higher pressures, then continue on.
why would the plane fall all the way to the ground?
If they went to a lower alt. they'd get fragged by anti aircraft artillery.
dbl
good analogy
"The only way to survive was to not to have gotten that position in the first place."
Bingo.
There is no avoiding this result if you use the equation. There is no correct policy, or regulation, or enforcement that is going to stop the inevitable.
"That is the sound of inevitability... It is the sound of your death"
Interestingly, the second quote you are using is from a movie in which the character being spoken to did not die...
He did dye! He killed himself!
One other choice is JUMP! With a parachute of course. Got gold?
My Dad flew B-24's and told me the same story about B-17's. I thought it was BS, what da ya know...
Just Act II?
The question is, is this
1) A modern musical theater 2 act play
2) A classical 3 act play, or
3) A Shakespearean 5 act play?
It's a Greek tragedy, doing a global tour.
4) Musical Chairs with dervatives.
I vote Shakespearian tragedy complete with blood guts and dead bodies littering the stage and "exit pursued by a bear".
but no deus ex machina, not even Soros - Ned
Short the banks, boys and girls.
Will be funny when the whole financial system collapses and George Soros is caught on video just before all the TV stations go down running into the mountains in Switzerland with gold and silver coins all spilling out of his asshole as he goes...
Old fart has more gold than you can possibly imagine. He knows.
Yours Truly,
Nathan Wind
ignore soros at your own peril and the peril of your children and grandchildren. the end of the greatest pack of lies in the last 5,000 years will come like a thief in the night. we will be privileged to see such a turning in human history. We all missed the decline of Rome as it ground itself down over hundreds of years, but we won't miss this.
I agree that the speed will induce shock and awe.
....But a privilege????
The wailing and gnashing of teeth. The reaping of the bitter harvest will not be pleasant, even for the prepared.
Sounds like a priviede to me.A front row seat at one of the most interesting times in modern history. .You gotta go sometime, somehow.
I m going to try and enjoy the ride
The Romans were weak! What took them so long?
We're going to destroy ourselves in decades, not centuries. We're way better than they were!
The Romans were weak! What took them so long?
Gutenberg didn't arrive on the scene to do his thing until the 1,400's.
Soros is wrong. Act II is opening, but it's not going to be a "financial" crisis.
A disgusting spectacle.
I'm with you Crabs. One man's "crisis" is another man's opportunity, especially those of Soros' ilk...
A couple months ago, Soros is quoted in the FT saying the 2nd part of the crash or cycle would hit in 6-8 years. Is he changing that forcast now?
Besides all this achievements in finance, I have heard Soros is now the worlds biggest drug trafficer. I hvn't been able to confirm that, but it would make sense seeing how money he invest in US policy(Obama).
Soros's "theory of reflexitivity" has been at work in the markets now for many decades. A perfect example would be the oil market of 2008.
Wall ST has been putting to use his theory for many years now.
I noticed Soros seems to talk about SDR's (special drawling rights) with a gleam in his eye. I suspect we shall see something coming from the IMF/FED in the next years about SDR's being able to save the universe from colllaspe, and onced adopted GOLD will become a "bystander" LEFT Out of the equation of the the world currency.
Of course, Soros will get his .05% cut of the entire universal transaction. Thankl you in advance George, fucking Soros, for saving the universe.
PS. Why does it look like your head is caving in between your eyebrows?
Without a miracle we don't get to Act III. This production is almost over.
In any market, as in any poker game, there is a fool. The astute investor Warren Buffet is fond of saying that any player unaware of the fool in the market probably is the fool in the market. – from The Big Short—How Wall Street Destroyed Main Street by Jim Quinn
http://www.lewrockwell.com/quinn/quinn29.1.html
One thing I like that Soros is doing (wishing I could do), is buying up every acre of fertile land in Argentina. After all,he may just be taking Marc Faber's advice of buying a place in the countryside, or in this case THE countryside.
Fertile land is CHEAP in Paraguay I have read.
Rumor has it that W bought a ranch in the eastern Chaco (NE Paraguay). You know, in case he has to get out of Dodge real fast...
Well he doesn't like derivatives.
"...they have been used to create imaginary value out of thin air.”
“Credit default swaps are particularly dangerous, ...and ought to be available only to the extent that the buyers have legitimate insurable interest.”
I don't like broccoli, or huge 38 DDD tits but that doesn't mean I don't make use of them.
I imagine Sir Soros doesn't exactly tell us everything/anything that he's actually doing with derivatives, anymore than Dr. Buffet did when he railed against them too while and Charlie owned billions of them.
"A double dip [recession] can't be ruled out", Soros said
Cool Photo:::
http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/photo.php?pid=12154727&o=all&op=1&view=all&subj=112930350107&aid=-1&id=870335595&oid=112930350107&fbid=10150182541835596
no shit Soros.
your generation has taken everything.
nothing left for the next generation except fear.
The things you give shall be given to you, but the things that you take shall be taken from you. - Native American proverb.
The things you give shall be given to you, but the things that you take shall be taken from you. - Native American proverb.
And ask them how that's worked out.
The end does indeed draw nigh. Yum, yum. <licks his chops>
Maybe Bernanke uses this as the indicator to start QE2? Back to +$2T new credit per quarter! Party on Garth..
I was thinking along the same lines, cwild. This could be the start of the Soros crowd clamoring for stimulus 2? Let's call it something different this time though. Is "save the baby otters" taken?
The bear case sure is getting a lot of name brand players. Soros, Rogers, Chanos, Pimco....
Lots and lots of money on that side of the boat. And yet without the BP disaster which helped knock 100 points off the XOI I wonder where the SP500 might be trading now.
While I have absolutely no faith in anyone's ability to read economic tea leaves, mine included, it sure is easy to read balance sheets and income statements and stock prices and see what kind of value you get for your dollars. There's a lot to choose from out there at the moment. Were I short I would have to place a lot of faith on my ability to predict big macro trends cause if I got it wrong even a little I am going to get hammered from a value perspective.
"While I have absolutely no faith in anyone's ability to read economic tea leaves, mine included, it sure is easy to read (sovereign) balance sheets and (sovereign) income statements and stock prices and see what kind of value you get for your (government printed) dollars."
People, nukes and the entire Military Industrial Complex is obsolete. Muwhahahahaha...
It killed more people than the bubonic plague (the Black Death) claimed when it struck between 1347 and 1351.
To date, the death rate from the swine flu has been moderate, and a new vaccine has been developed, so there is good reason to hope that we’ll survive this disease relatively intact. But I want to assume the opposite for purposes of illustrating how the current financial system would deal with a really terrible outbreak of swine flu versus how limited purpose banking would respond. My point is that such an outbreak would not only kill large numbers of us. It would also kill our financial system given the way it’s now structured. The swine flu virus, depending on its strain, can be a pretty nasty bug. The 1918 swine flu pandemic killed at least 20 million, likely killed 50 million, and possibly killed 100 million people worldwide.
Worldwide, the mortality rate from the 1918 influenza appears to have been at least 2.5 percent. In comparison,the current U.S. mortality rate is 0.8 percent. So if you add 2.5 to 0.8, you see that swine flu could quadruple our death rate. If swine flu deaths were concentrated among the very young and very old, both populations of which hold little or no life insurance, there would be little or no impact on the life insurance industry. Butlet’s assume that the deaths were concentrated among those ages 35 to 70, who hold the bulk of life insurance policies. With enough swine flu killing large numbers of this population, we could find that the U.S. life insurance industry is short trillions of dollars in reserves. Currently, there is $19.5 trillion of life insurance in force in the United States; in other words, were every American who is insured either via an individual or group (employer-provided) policy to drop dead, say in the course of a couple of weeks, American life insurance companies would need to immediately come up with $19.5 trillion. But the life insurance industry only holds $1.1 trillion in reserves. Now even the worst-case swine flu scenario wouldn’t wipe out all Americans with life insurance policies, but this thought experiment helps concentrate the mind and sensitize us to the industry’s insuring of the uninsurable. In fact, the industry’s reserves would be wiped outwere only 5.6 percent of its insured to die within a short period of time. But it also would surely be wiped out by an even smaller deathrate for two reasons. First,much of the $1.1 trillion in reserves are reserves not to cover life insurance, but to cover the cash surrender values of whole life and similar policies. The folks owning these whole life policies aren’t going to be very keen on having what amounts to their savings accounts being used to cover someone else’s death benefits. Second, life insurance reserves are generally invested in liquid assets, with the largest single holding being corporate bonds. But were the life insurance industry to need to cash outits holdings quickly, the sale of its securities into the market would depress corporate bond and other asset prices, meaning the industry would net less than $1.1 trillion in actual cash available to pay dead claimants. The life insurance industry says their models incorporate the possibility of a bad outbreak of swine flu and that they could withstand suchan occurrence with no or little sweat. But if you probe, you find out the industry is counting on kids and oldsters to succumb to the disease,not their middle-aged clients. You’ll also hear the industry say that if the middle-age death rate is high enough to bring down the life insurance industry, we’ll have other things to worry about than insurance company failures. That’s true, but it’s precisely in such a dire situation that we wouldn’t want to have to deal with a financial crisis that runs like the following scenario. The public gets wind that the life insurance companies can’t cover their obligations. There is a run on the $3 trillion cash surrender value of the industry. As “insurer of last resort,” Uncle Sam steps in andprints trillions to cover not just the withdrawals, but the policy claims themselves. The public starts to worry about inflation and the safety ofthe banks. Dollars become hot potatoes. Inflation starts to skyrocket. The public begins to withdraw its checking and savings account balances in cash as sellers stop taking checks, which take days to clear—days duringwhich prices can soar. Alternatively, the public starts using its debit cards to buy physical things, which will retain their values. The sellers of such items do the same the instant the receipt from the sale hits their banking accounts. But if it takes several days to get access to the proceeds of one’s sales, sellers will refuse to let customers use debit cards and simply request cash on the barrel, or, put more accurately, barrels of cash. As the public starts taking its deposits out of the banks, the FDICfinds itself short some $6 trillion to cover its own guarantees. Uncle Sam prints an extra $6 trillion to meet its insurance commitments. This sparks even more inflation. The dollar plunges, and the Chinese, disgusted by their capital losses, start dumping their U.S. assets, which drives interest rates through the roof and U.S. stock prices down the tubes, which reduces asset values of U.S. banks and other companies, triggering massive additional money creation to cover what, in the summer of 2009 the FDIC calculated as $13.9 trillion in total new Treasury guarantee commitments, and . . .
well, you get the picture.
It’s Argentina, here we come!
'Jimmy Stewart is Dead' Laurence J. Kotlikoff 2009
Being a young & healthy guy, I say "bring on the pandemic."
It's not going to happen, though. Sorry.
Ahhh! This time is different then?
In 1918, the flu pandemic killed the young disproportionately, so be careful what you wish for. The theory for why that occured is that older people had been exposed to some previous weaker flu, and as such their immune systems were ready for the pandemic flu that killed so many young healthy people...tens of millions of them. A similar die off of the young could happen again with a weaponized smallpox, for example. If you were born in the 60's you were probably vaccinated against it....
"World Bank sees 'double-dip' recession for parts of Europe A double-dip recession is possible in several European countries if investors lose faith in efforts to control debt, the World Bank said on Thursday...
...Herman Van Rompuy, the EU president, said this week that the EU would be prepared to extend that rescue package if it proved insufficient.
“Currently there isn’t even the hint of a request to put this rescue plan into practice,” Van Rompuy told Belgium’s Trends magazine. “And if the plan were to prove insufficient, my answer is simple: in this case, we’ll do more.”"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/7817995/World-Bank-sees-double-dip-recession-for-parts-of-Europe.html
Post relocated to where it makes more sense.
Soros says? Watch what Soros does, never mind what he says:
http://www.mffais.com/stock-owner/soros-fund-management-llc.html
+10 exactly
You know the SHTF when you get back from your camping trip and you hear on CNBC " Trading has been Halted for the 6th consecutive day"