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Special Report: EU = USSR Redux?

Tyler Durden's picture


Tuur Demeester submits this comprehensive special report which analyzes the collapse of the Soviet Union, focusing on ten core crashes of the once "evil empire." Subsequently, as he submits: "I make a point by point comparison with Europe today, and come to the conclusion that its situation does not differ all that much with that of the imploding USSR. As a matter of fact, the parallells are often startling. There are plenty of disquieting evolutions going on in Europe today: the riots in the PIIGS countries, the appearingly permanent crisis in the banking world,... Maintaining the status quo is no longer possible, that much is clear. But what will the change look like? Will it be a steady reform, or on the contrary a sudden crash of the European Union and the euro?" For a very original take on the future of the European Union, read on.

Special Report: EU = USSR Redux? (pdf)



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Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:04 | 1241469 damage
damage's picture

Come on now. I really do hate the EU (not so much the membering countries, but the EU itself). But... to compare them to the USSR seems a bit much.

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:07 | 1241479 drink or die
drink or die's picture

Did you even read the paper?

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:19 | 1241524 damage
damage's picture

I read it now. It was actually pretty decent. Just thought the headline was a bit much.

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 23:10 | 1241856 msamour
msamour's picture

You are correct, it is unfair to compare the EU with the USSR. The USSR did not have the technology the EU has today, and the USSR never forbade their citizens from owning gradens.

In today's EU you have CCTV monitoring almost everyone in large cities, government officials passing and enforcing "strict anti-terror" laws. In many instances, growing vegetables is discouraged, or even forbidden (those are mostly local edicts)

It is not fair to compare the EU with the USSR, because the EU is the USSR on steroids.

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:32 | 1241537 anynonmous
anynonmous's picture

Police powers in the UK

Stop and account

The police can stop anyone in a public place and ask you to account for yourself.


Fingerprints, photographs and DNA samples

If you have been arrested, charged, convicted or received a caution, warning or reprimand for a recordable offence in England and Wales, the police have the power to take your fingerprints, photographs and a DNA sample without your consent to prevent and detect crime.


When can the police stop and search you


The police can stop and search you without having a search warrant if they suspect you of being in possession of:-

  • drugs; and/or
  • an offensive weapon; and/or
  • stolen property; and/or
  • alcohol if you are at certain major football or rugby matches or on public transport travelling to such an event; and/or
  • evidence in relation to an offence under the Protection of Wild Mammals (Scotland) Act 2002; and/or
  • cash or the cash equivalent of £1,000 or more and that this is the result of criminal activity
  • fireworks that you intend to use anti-socially.


Number of CCTV cams per 1000 residents in London



UK (28 day) detention limits (without charge) outstrips other countries

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 23:16 | 1241876 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Worth fighting for eh...

Maybe we need a fresh start, where society is built on the basis of personal and individual freedoms, in support of the state, not where we exist solely to fund it with everything we own and can be put away without trial if we voice disagreement with it...

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:29 | 1241569 legal eagle
legal eagle's picture

No, the US is the USSR and China is the US. China bankrupted the US with their Yuan peg just like we bankrupted the Soviets with military spending

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:49 | 1241640 Mad Max
Mad Max's picture

Close to truth, but China is going down pretty quickly too.  We might be first, but the collapse gap between US and them won't be 20+ years, perhaps 2 or 3 at most.

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 23:18 | 1241881 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

It is simultaneous, let's not forget that China had the biggest stimulus ever, which resulted in 64 million empty apartments as a means to fudge the decline.

All fail at the same time in utter default...

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:53 | 1241653 Kat
Kat's picture

What a bunch of discredited mercantilist garbage.  Truly, economic ignorance at its worst.


The only thing the yuan peg has done (assuming it is successful) is provided you with cheap goods (you are richer), a lower interest rate (you are richer) and inflation for itself (the Chinese are poorer).  The Chinese government has "generously" provided you with a lower cost of living on the backs of the Chinese. 


Thu, 05/05/2011 - 01:28 | 1242095 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

actually, Kat, you are not required to come up with a "better" version of mercantilist garbage, here, ok?

just the inkling of the idea that the US may be responsible for its own bankruptcy would, it seems to me, suffice, here.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 07:14 | 1242306 Coke and Hookers
Coke and Hookers's picture

The more cheap goods you buy from somewhere else, the less you tend to produce yourself. The less you produce, the more you need to borrow. The more you borrow, the more you go bankrupt. You know, getting rich from buying cheap stuff assumes that your manufacturing base hasn't been devastated by said cheap goods. Look at America today. Is America rich from buying all these cheap goods? Or is America bankrupt? (Yes, it is.) Does every factory moved to Asia increase American prosperity? Even cheap goods need to be paid for and when you don't produce you can't pay.

This is pretty obvious and supported by the facts. "Free-trade" has become a dogmatic ideology blinding people to the obvious.

America is practicing 'free trade' with countries that are essentially merchantilistic and don't give a shit about free trade.

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 22:38 | 1241795 NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

collapse of USSR and no mention of Reagan.  maybe Tuur went to Harvard

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 01:26 | 1242089 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

or berkeley

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:04 | 1241475 SMG
SMG's picture

Marxism is eventual self destruction.  If the EU collapses= failure of the NWO central oligargy. We can only hope. Liberty for all! 

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:23 | 1241540 Holodomor2012
Holodomor2012's picture

re: Bolshevism

From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States), this world-wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilization and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing.

Churchill from "Zionism verse Bolshevism"

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 22:08 | 1241702 SMG
SMG's picture

Screw you.  You and all your flying monkey's get on here and try and put all the blame on true Jews, when the real fault lies with all the Luciferians and their lackey's.  The people will wake up one day and justice will be delivered.  Better run now, the truth willl come out one day and justice WILL BE SERVED!

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 06:43 | 1242278 j0nx
j0nx's picture

The whataferians? Take that tin shit some place else.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 09:16 | 1242740 SMG
SMG's picture

I wish it were all a bunch of baloney.  I'd be alot happier.  They leave their symbols everywhere.  Back of the dollar bill for instance.  Ever wonder what the pyramid and the eye on top is all about?    Anyway it's the religion of the oligarchs currently pulling the strings in the world.  They often blame others for the stuff they do. 

Anyway it does relate to the topic because these same people are behind the EU and much of the financial problems we are having today.

They succeed because many people incorrectly believe it is just a bunch of baloney, but unfortunately it's not.

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:05 | 1241477 SDRII
SDRII's picture

How about the other squeeze...the one in Iraq. Boehner was out this morning saying a troop extension will be  hard sell. Last month was deadliest since 2009. Sadr says get out and the "gov't" - in name only - will be loathe to invite the US to stay. Mullen quoted the othe day saying the Iraqis will have choose quickly to extend the presence.

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:06 | 1241481 johngaltfla
johngaltfla's picture

Sounds logical to me....

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:13 | 1241496 honestann
honestann's picture

The predators-that-be in the EU are no different from the predators-that-be in the USSR or the USSA.  Predators do not voluntarily give up power or special advantages for themselves, their co-conspirators or their collaborators.  At most they escape when they realize they are about to become prey themselves.

Therefore, only two solutions exist:

#1: collapse followed by a whole slew of predator-states (the original countries, presumably)... hopefully one or two becoming less predatory and authoritarian.

#2: armed revolution and unseating, imprisonment or extermination of the predators-that-be and predator-class.

The world desperately needs to eliminate the predators-that-be and predator-class... and soon.  Given modern technologies, if the predators are allowed to more fully implement the "security systems" they are establishing against "their" populations, earth will become a permanent slave planet with almost zero hope of escape.  Human beings better wake up, and wake up soon, or the human race will become a permanent abject failure.

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 23:42 | 1241923 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

(most) humans only wake up the same time politicians do, when the economy hits rock bottom that point the parasites (Govt) are bankrupt and have completed 'Mission Suicide Socialism' so all is already lost when Joe Public (finally) loses it and kicks off ...a bit late again citizens, Ho Hum!

Luckily the EU are spreading the pain (unserviceable debt) around so effectively in Commie EUSSR countries they should all topple like dominos and go bankrupt at the same time teaching the EU a lesson in economics and consign their tower of vacuous Marxist idealism to the scrapheap of history can run but you can't hide from capitalism, as every socialist in history has found out

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 07:49 | 1242368 Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

Unfortunately Joe Public never connects the dots even After the collapse the lessons are Never learned, what sprung up on the grave on USSR, a corrupt oligarchy, I think the Buffets of the world are planning the same in the West

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:13 | 1242427 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

A permanet slave planet with zero hope of escape is indeed their goal.  There are cheap spaceflight solutions like the rotovator, and asteroid mining would be a great way to shrink the stocks-to-flows ratios of PMs and transform them from hard money to mere commodities.  Yet for some reason, the big financing and the cheap research never come through.  And don't even get me started on SETI- Jamie Demon's gold toilet probably costs more taxpayer money.  They're not afraid of a mass freakout if we realize we're not alone.  They're afraid we would be inspired, go to space, and realize that even a precarious existence is better without the elites.

One of the main reasons the oligarchs want world government is that they don't want people to have the option of moving to a free country.  If every country sucks equally there will be no competition, no brain drain, no shining city on the hill, no way to get off the treadmill.  Space Wild West would be a disaster for them.  That is one reason why I am pulling for aliens showing up soon.  They might start a real space race between China and a reborn America.  Once we get established offworld, we can leave Earth to the sheeple and their beloved overlords while we claim our destiny among the stars.  Global Revolution, bitches!  And death to the EU!

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 11:24 | 1243406 Mad Cow
Mad Cow's picture

I love a good sci-fi. Unfortunately "humanity" is the problem, either here, or in space. Little Caesars in Space! We each need our own planet that we can never leave with robot slaves ;)

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 23:16 | 1246272 honestann
honestann's picture

Yes, you are spot-on exactly correct.  Congrats!  You think much like me and a group I contribute work to.  They had to move some of their people outside the USSA to [hopefully] assure they are not captured and their technology stolen or destroyed.  I'm sure you'll understand (see www-dot-icegods-dot-com).  They have the means of escape... if they can complete their new (faster) implementation of ice soon enough.  Like you, they realized the only hope (outside of taking on the predators) is to leave earth.  That's their intention as you can see.  Don't be confused by the intentionally cartooney nature of the website.  That's done on purpose to misdirect unwanted attention.

I wouldn't hold my breath for aliens.  If we want to be free, we need to make it happen ourselves.  That's why I contribute as much volunteer work to them as I can afford.

Yes, what we really need is a "wild west in space".  The government purposely thwarted the space program decades ago to assure no "seeds of liberty" got planted in space.  While getting started in space is non-trivial, and space is incredibly harsh in certain respects, most people don't realize that space is also incredibly benevolent in most respects, and has incredible opportunities for bootstrap processes and amazing developments.  I can't reveal any of the amazing ones those guys invented and discovered in this forum, for obvious reasons.  I'm sure other people have invented and discovered other amazing possibilities for space development too.  The field is so rich, the wealth of opportunity is stunning once you investigate and invent for a while.

It is hard to believe so many people are totally okay with being overt slaves... worse slaves than hundreds of years ago (at least they weren't required to pay for their own dwellings and food).

The best thing about space is... it cannot be controlled by governments.  The cost to monitor and enforce their protection rackets would be vastly higher than anything they could collect.  They know this.  Thus they will make sure it never happens.  That's why we need some super highly leveraged technology like ice to allow us (small group of individuals) make the escape on our own.  What other chance is there?  As long as humans are as stupid as they are, and as long as they keep giving 90% of their production to the predators to finance their own enslavement, no conventional means can work.

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:13 | 1241498 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

The EU was a nazi plan... Also Belarus is collapsing...

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 23:49 | 1241931 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

the Nazis plans were cut short just so's ya know ....this EU Project is very much a current elite European scumbag plan under constant development and i'm happy to say will never be completed

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:17 | 1241512 kito
kito's picture

get a grip, there have been riots in europe since the dawn of man

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:48 | 1241624 sabra1
sabra1's picture

'cause we're all horny, coudn't find no women!

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:18 | 1241516 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

The comparaison also applies to the US ... and in many aspects China.

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:18 | 1241528 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Here's a little story to remind J6P about CDO(s) & Derivatives. "Obama Bin Laden" (quote referenced from MSM) is just posturing for a 2012 employment extension. Enjoy the story.. Make the connection!

A guy buys a new Lincoln Navigator for $52,500.00 with monthly payments of
$560.00. He and a friend go duck hunting in upper Wisconsin .

It's mid-winter.....and of course all of the lakes are frozen.

These two guys go out on the ice with their GUNS, a DOG, and of course the new

They decide they want to make a natural looking open water area for the ducks
to focus on, something for the decoys to float on.

Now......making a hole in the ice large enough to invite a passing
duck, is going to take a little more power than the average drill auger can

So.....out of the back of the new Navigator comes a stick
of dynamite with a short 40 second-fuse.

Our two Rocket Scientists.....afraid they might slip on the
ice while trying to run away after lighting the fuse (and becoming toast,
along with the Navigator), decide on the following course of action:

they light the 40 second fuse; then, with a mighty thrust,
they throw the stick of dynamite as far away as possible.

Remember a couple of paragraphs back when I mentioned the NAVIGATOR, the GUNS,
and the DOG...?

Let's talk about the dog:

A highly trained Black Lab used for RETRIEVING; especially things thrown by
the owner.

You guessed it....The dog takes off across the ice at a
high rate of speed and grabs the stick of dynamite, with the burning 40-second
fuse.... just as it hits the ice.

The two men swallow, blink, start waving their arms and, with veins in
their necks swelling to resemble stalks of rhubarb, scream and holler at
the dog to stop.

The dog, now apparently cheered on by his master, keeps coming.

One hunter panics, grabs the shotgun and shoots the dog. The
shotgun is loaded with #8 bird shot, hardly big enough to stop a Black Lab.

The dog stops for a moment, slightly confused, then continues on.

Another shot, and this time the dog, still standing, becomes really confused
and of course terrified, thinks these two geniuses have gone insane!!!!!!

The dog takes off to find cover, UNDER the brand new Navigator.

The men continue to scream as they run. The red hot exhaust pipe on the truck
touches the dog's rear end...he yelps, drops the
dynamite under the truck and takes off after his master.

The truck is blown to bits and sinks to the bottom of the lake, leaving
the two idiots standing there with 'I can't believe this just happened'
looks on their faces.

The insurance company says that sinking a vehicle in a lake by illegal use
of explosives is NOT COVERED by the policy. And he still had yet to make
the first of those $560.00 a month payments.

The dog is okay...doing fine.

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:43 | 1241610 pasttense
pasttense's picture

Please give a URL for this story.

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 22:17 | 1241730 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

I cannot provide link. It was emailed to me as a joke.. I own a Lincoln Navigator. The sender was trying to provoke me to go fishing & carry some dynamite only because they like the SUV.

After many laughs re-reading this story, simply wanted to use this to illustrate the bigger financial picture.

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 22:43 | 1241804 brandy night rocks
brandy night rocks's picture

Here it is:


I found that by googling. <== ABSOLUTELY TRUE STORY!!

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:27 | 1241545 BaboonAss
BaboonAss's picture

And of course there is Dmitry Orlov's classic comparison of the collapse of the USSR with the current collapse of the USA: Closing the Collapse Gap.

When he wrote this in 2006, very few people realized the US was on the brink of history's biggest economic collapse, one for the record books.

Dmitry writes with a dry, sardonic Russian humor, that most ZHers would appreciate, and he is much funnier than "Tuur Demeester" (if that is indeed your real name).

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:48 | 1241636 Mad Max
Mad Max's picture

+1000 fiatscos for Orlov.

Mr. President, we CANNOT ALLOW this coll-apse gap!

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 23:11 | 1241870 euclidean
euclidean's picture

Excellent material, thanks. Slide 5 - Delusions of grandeur prevent honest discussion of problems

Would have just left it with "Delusions of Grandeur". Am waiting to see Trump try and export his homebrand hero worship. He's the posterchild for everything the US has become. 'Some say' he IS Uncle Sam.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 13:32 | 1244044 theprofromdover
theprofromdover's picture

Of course that's his real name.

He is a pal of Foucault Tudoux Wimay, the Mittel-Europe philosopher-gey.

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:28 | 1241550 euclidean
euclidean's picture

Credit where it is due. The EU was created to attempt to address all that was pure and good but that is now commercialised and sold for profit by the US. The hypocrits of the US stand always ready to criticise and destroy what is commercially destructive to their own self-righteous existence. It is what has been done repeatedly - and will continue to happen. Suck it up and go with the flow. Rinse and repeat.

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:28 | 1241552 LaughingMan
LaughingMan's picture

Atleast the USSR had Kruschev! Who in the EU bangs his shoes on the table during debates.

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:49 | 1241629 web bot
web bot's picture

NIGEL FARANGE.... that 's who.

If you have not heard of him, just check him out on YouTube... his rants are legendary.

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:31 | 1241568 Rollerball
Rollerball's picture

The USSR collapsed because it lost the legitimacy of Marxist communism.  Cultural homogenization assumes a moral tenet.   

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 00:34 | 1242014 Cursive
Cursive's picture


Been a long time since I've seen a Rollberball post.  Good to read you here, brother.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 00:49 | 1242037 Orly
Orly's picture

Stalin strayed from the path in the late-1930's, not from cultural homogenisation but from sheer power-hungry paranoia.  The state never recovered from those horrible years.

I just saw a movie about men who escaped from the gulag, called, The Way Back, with Ed Harris and Colin Farrell.  Definitely worth the dollar rental.

Forced labor in the mines of a Siberian prison gives new definition to hell on earth.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:43 | 1259955 BigJim
BigJim's picture

The legitimacy of Marxist communism?

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:32 | 1241571 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture



What is the wall?

I hope the wall is the exchange rate.

I want to see $1.00 = Two Euro

In other words, a liter of Augustiner for .50 cents.



Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:34 | 1241579 Muir
Muir's picture

ZEro Hedge is on a tear today with the most asinine, insane posts pandering the the baser herd fear instincts of the lemmings here.

On the other hand, given the utter brilliance of the many, many posts in the past, Tyler is certainly entitled.


p.s. on a scale of "truthiess" the above report is utter trype 


Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:43 | 1241601 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

There are two escape routes to flee from Zerohedge. What's your choice?


Door number one


Door number Two

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 22:37 | 1241781 Mad Max
Mad Max's picture

Door #1 is Marketwatch and they keep publishing essays from Paul Farrell, which have plenty o'doom by any standards.  Strike that and put in Seeking Alpha, or maybe that "mad money" site.

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 22:37 | 1241783 EvlTheCat
EvlTheCat's picture

Just remember to leave your avatar, which ever door you choose!

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:47 | 1241620 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture


Are bouncing breasts included in baser instincts?


Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:57 | 1241658 Tyler Durden
Tyler Durden's picture

Which particular posts do you find "asinine" and "insane"

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 22:42 | 1241798 euclidean
euclidean's picture

Anything forwarded from the trivial msm sites bitching about who was or was not holding a weapon when some standin backstreet resident terrorist was shot changing his dialysis batteries while watching crashing helicopters. Who the fuck cares - the whole thing is a media beat up.

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 22:52 | 1241829 Tyler Durden
Tyler Durden's picture

So it is preferable to exist in isolation of a media "beat up" and be ignorant of whatever issue dominates the consciousness of 99% of the broader population?

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 23:21 | 1241885 euclidean
euclidean's picture

No, what I am saying is the latest fashion of bullshit media misrepresentation is detracting from your otherwise exemplary fact finding. Stick to the high ground  .... or is it the underground. Your hounds don't need to join the media circus.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 00:34 | 1242015 longorshort
longorshort's picture

Please ban this guy.  The profile is not professional.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 02:03 | 1242133 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

why is tyler responsible for the baser instincts of the zH lemmings?  of for bringing them out.  he is a frequent lob-shot-of-the-MSM-story playa.  the amount of asinine, inane propaganda since last weekend is what is peaking. 

everybody gets it, differently;  but, everybody gets it.

much of this is directed by misdirection/disinfo/deflection/false dichotomies;  sometimes due to the learning curve thingy, other times just by the propaganada yogis who always massage the prop wash into terminal confusion, misunderstanding, or unspoken ignorance, bullied by deception. many come to this site with honest and real Q's about what is happening, how things work.

tyler introduces this piece:  For a very original take on the future of the European Union, read on.  there are notes and links in the text and this list of "SOURCES" for the data and the beads he is trying to string: 23 sources.  v. scholarly.

yes, people are scared.  our goobermint and leadership is a bunch of psychos.  everything is disinfo, presto-chango, tweak, tweak, tweak. oh! we have avenged the Twin Towers!  unfortunately, OBL "resisted" and here are crime scene photos and noone really knows anything.   we have won.  chicken dinner!


Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:34 | 1241582 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Quietly, the US has moved to state run capitalism while China has become more market oriented. Free markets are the luxury that expanding economies can afford. 

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:42 | 1241598 IdioTsincracY
IdioTsincracY's picture

Quite incorrect ...

The US has a capitalistic-oligarchy-run system with a paralized government

China has a government bent on serious ass-kicking

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:47 | 1241612 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Sorry. I call manipulation of the stock, bond, real estate and commodities market examples of state run capitalism. Did I forget to mention nationalization of banks, insurance companies and auto makers? Sorry, forgetting details. The oligarchy and the state are one.

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:47 | 1241633 Mad Max
Mad Max's picture

"state run capitalism" is an absolute contradiction in terms... I think the word you are looking for is fascism.  As defined by its modern originator Mussolini himself.

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:59 | 1241646 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

You're absolutely right and I agree with you. It only differs by degree of financial control and by the flavor and type of social control (politics). Ultimately, the oligarchs could increasingly revoke the rights of everyone else. But they do have to keep up appearances, ya know. State-run capitalism sounds so much more digestible. 

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 01:14 | 1242073 Breaker
Breaker's picture

>> "state run capitalism" is an absolute contradiction in terms...

>> I think the word you are looking for is fascism. 

>> As defined by its modern originator Mussolini himself.

Couldn't agree more. China and the US are converging toward very similar systems from different directions--both fascist.


Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:43 | 1241591 IdioTsincracY
IdioTsincracY's picture

I remember when the Euro was created. The economics experts in the States ridiculed it as a worthless effort compared to the mighty Dollar .... and look where we are now ....

if you were to correctly evaluate the national debt (i.e. both public and private) the United States would be in a situation worse than that of a few PIGS nations ....

I think that there will be a few European nations forced out of the Euro zone and tht would make for an overall stronger Europe, whereas, the end of reserve-currency status for the US will force the nation in a very turbulent period.

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 22:33 | 1241779 Milestones
Milestones's picture

And pray tell, what will replace the dollar? Yuan?? Euro?? IMF's Sdr's--after the fuck over the IMF has given half the 3rd world countries on the planet?? Better think it thru again!     Milestones 

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:44 | 1241603 geminiRX
geminiRX's picture

Anyone's thoughts on Kinross and whether the stock has made a bottom? A pretty solid Q1 result yesterday and some good stock movement on an otherwise red market day. Technicals look like a wedge formation that could break upside past the 50 dma

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:51 | 1241637 IdioTsincracY
IdioTsincracY's picture

Overhead costs are getting much better and if gold keeps going up Kinross is poised to possibly double production after recent expansions

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:54 | 1241650 geminiRX
geminiRX's picture

I have been buying every time it falls below 15 - but it's tough playing with stocks nowadays. Thanks for the insight.

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 22:02 | 1241673 zaknick
zaknick's picture

Ecuador is solidifying its democracy. Don't think Kinross' FDN project will get anywhere.

Fuck all multinational corporations.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 07:53 | 1242377 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

You are just mad that you live in colombia and cant get an immigrant visa to come to the usa.

What's the matter? Did your parents bring you over illegally and now you are on the INS ban list?

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:46 | 1241608 legal eagle
legal eagle's picture

Caviar emptor, yes, right on. Centralized planning for capitalists and capitalism for the communists. Just another of today's irony.

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:49 | 1241628 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

It's ironic convergence. It's a biproduct of Chimerica. The economy in decline needs to be more regulated as the economy on the rise becomes more liberalized

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:56 | 1241660 IdioTsincracY
IdioTsincracY's picture

Easy there!

China is the perfect example of Centrally Managed Capitalism (of course with a huge base of slave labor)

In the Sates the oligarchy prefers political gridlock (a.k.a. split government) ...

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 22:05 | 1241681 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

The point is the direction and degree of change (the vector). Ever since Tricky Dicky's Excellent Visit (Ping Pong Diplomacy, 1971) China went from an iron-fisted, isolated autocracy focused on social change toward and increasingly liberalized economy with some free markets (a stock market! OMG How anti-Maoist!) (IPOs in the US! OMG!) and softer social repression. As a byproduct of the deal, America has gone from a liberal democracy with free market fundamentalism to a managed economy. We get a new intervention every few weeks. We've become quietly reliant on them. Moral hazard is a thing of the past. It's crony capitalism aka state run aka oligarchically managed aka....aka....aka...

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 22:00 | 1241664 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

lol...yes, exactly.

Decentralized oppression, centralized profiteering.

Just imagine...Wall Street and Central Banks - with Congress, the Supreme and District Courts, Pharmaceuticals, Insurance, and all State Governments in their pockets.

The only thing stopping their hegemony would be the end of a rope or an efficient guillotine backed by the mob (but the mob is watching professional sports, Oprah, Dancing, Idol, etc.).

All Hail Caesar.


Wed, 05/04/2011 - 21:48 | 1241618 web bot
web bot's picture


Wed, 05/04/2011 - 22:24 | 1241739 Segestan
Segestan's picture

Nonsense... the EU is not the USSR in any way. The USSR was a construct of Revolution after centuries of Czarist pograms against the Jews and a final defeat at the hands of jews. The EU is founded on a utopian charade. Hope founded on nothing but third world dreams.

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 22:35 | 1241776 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

EU froze about 45 billion euro's from libya. Didn't that fix their debt problem?

By Manlio Dinucci

Global Research, April 24, 2011 Il Manifesto (translated from Italian) - 2011-04-22

The objective of the war against Libya is not just its oil reserves (now estimated at 60 billion barrels), which are the greatest in Africa and whose extraction costs are among the lowest in the world, nor the natural gas reserves of which are estimated at about 1,500 billion cubic meters. In the crosshairs of "willing" of the operation “Unified Protector” there are sovereign wealth funds, capital that the Libyan state has invested abroad.

The Libyan Investment Authority (LIA) manages sovereign wealth funds estimated at about $70 billion U.S., rising to more than $150 billion if you include foreign investments of the Central Bank and other bodies. But it might be more. Even if they are lower than those of Saudi Arabia or Kuwait, Libyan sovereign wealth funds have been characterized by their rapid growth. When LIA was established in 2006, it had $40 billion at its disposal. In just five years, LIA has invested over one hundred companies in North Africa, Asia, Europe, the U.S. and South America: holding, banking, real estate, industries, oil companies and others.

In Italy, the main Libyan investments are those in UniCredit Bank (of which LIA and the Libyan Central Bank hold 7.5 percent), Finmeccanica (2 percent) and ENI (1 percent), these and other investments (including 7.5 percent of the Juventus Football Club) have a significance not as much economically (they amount to some $5.4 billion) as politically.

Libya, after Washington removed it from the blacklist of “rogue states,” has sought to carve out a space at the international level focusing on "diplomacy of sovereign wealth funds." Once the U.S. and the EU lifted the embargo in 2004 and the big oil companies returned to the country, Tripoli was able to maintain a trade surplus of about $30 billion per year which was used largely to make foreign investments. The management of sovereign funds has however created a new mechanism of power and corruption in the hands of ministers and senior officials, which probably in part escaped the control of the Gadhafi himself: This is confirmed by the fact that, in 2009, he proposed that the 30 billion in oil revenues go "directly to the Libyan people." This aggravated the fractures within the Libyan government.

U.S. and European ruling circles focused on these funds, so that before carrying out a military attack on Libya to get their hands on its energy wealth, they took over the Libyan sovereign wealth funds. Facilitating this operation is the representative of the Libyan Investment Authority, Mohamed Layas himself: as revealed in a cable published by WikiLeaks. On January 20 Layas informed the U.S. ambassador in Tripoli that LIA had deposited $32 billion in U.S. banks. Five weeks later, on February 28, the U.S. Treasury “froze” these accounts. According to official statements, this is "the largest sum ever blocked in the United States," which Washington held "in trust for the future of Libya." It will in fact serve as an injection of capital into the U.S. economy, which is more and more in debt. A few days later, the EU "froze" around 45 billion Euros of Libyan funds.

The assault on the Libyan sovereign wealth funds will have a particularly strong impact in Africa. There, the Libyan Arab African Investment Company had invested in over 25 countries, 22 of them in sub-Saharan Africa, and was planning to increase the investments over the next five years, especially in mining, manufacturing, tourism and telecommunications. The Libyan investments have been crucial in the implementation of the first telecommunications satellite Rascom (Regional African Satellite Communications Organization), which entered into orbit in August 2010, allowing African countries to begin to become independent from the U.S. and European satellite networks, with an annual savings of hundreds of millions of dollars.

Even more important were the Libyan investment in the implementation of three financial institutions launched by the African Union: the African Investment Bank, based in Tripoli, the African Monetary Fund, based in Yaoundé (Cameroon), the African Central Bank, with Based in Abuja (Nigeria). The development of these bodies would enable African countries to escape the control of the World Bank and International Monetary Fund, tools of neo-colonial domination, and would mark the end of the CFA franc, the currency that 14 former French colonies are forced to use. Freezing Libyan funds deals a strong blow to the entire project. The weapons used by "the willing" are not only those in the military action called “Unified Protector.”

Il Manifesto, April 22, 2011

Translated from Italian by John Catalinotto

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 23:54 | 1241948 What_Me_Worry
What_Me_Worry's picture

Good article.  Well worth reading.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 00:08 | 1241971 Vuvuzela
Vuvuzela's picture

you guys missing something here

the capitalism was brought to you by the same peoples that broght the socialism/marxism


It was no a colapse, but a controled one I was there in 1989 and the only reason was NWO can not be done with 2 ideological blocks, so 1 have to die.

and after came the looting of the national wealth of ex communist countries


PS sorry my spelling

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 00:23 | 1241998 nah
nah's picture

USSR? EU? does israel still steal water land and get a free ride... bills, oppresive states, and a lack of natural resources presided over by a dated form of government...


only difference is the USA fights their wars... what is israels recognized borders, is israel the 51st state for REALZ... the EU is less of a pressing economic issue for the US as opposed to global socialism and the rise of political/religious borders

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 02:52 | 1242167 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

question tyler's question.  what does this moronic whipsock Tuur want us to miss by wasting our time reading this horseshit? 

i'm not sure i totally understand what you are saying, but i can see the magician and i hear you say:  don't fall for the mis-direction!  watch his other hand! 

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 01:06 | 1242061 Peter K
Peter K's picture

Spot on.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 02:35 | 1242156 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

with 7 posts in 15 weeks, this one is sure to go into the scrapbook!

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 01:15 | 1242070 uff the fluff
uff the fluff's picture

All that may be true, but how are these United States any different?

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 02:15 | 1242142 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

uff:  this is post #5 in 18 months. 

thanks for keeping in touch and keep asking those clear, penetrating questionz!

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 01:59 | 1242127 mikjall
mikjall's picture

Whatever you might think of the EU, or of the blessedly defunct USSR, this "report" is a piece of garbage. Why was it posted?

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 02:24 | 1242148 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

re-read the whole thing, please.  answer your own Q, ok?  stop with the "standards" for zH, ok?  tyler has already addressed this question.  egg in yer beer, sir?  anything else?  with a bit over 2 posts/month, thanks to you, too, for checking in and questioning what on earth is going on @ zH???

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 02:18 | 1242146 ivana
ivana's picture

EU today is just a bankster utility. Veichle for corporation and bankster expropriation in peripherial countries. Needs to expand all the time (east and north africa) and maintain higher and higher repression levels (growing birocracy) othervise will die as such.
EU countries are , of course , each different as before. They will eventually collapse EU from within.

Pity that idea which started with good solid objectives for benefit of citizens turned wrong and got hijacked by top level bastards.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 02:36 | 1242151 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture
Special Report: EU = USSR Redux?

did we mention that folks in both places eat @ tables, with flatware, drink from glasses, and strangely, also wear belts?

oh!  what will the future bring?  i do hope somebody can help us know the future! 

perhaps it will be more like the past than we would like to admit...

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 03:14 | 1242182 Shylockracy
Shylockracy's picture

The EU as such is not at war, but the overlapping NATO, bankrolled by EU countries is; in Lybia, Iraq, Af-Pak, Cote d'Ivoire etc.

The field "War" on  "10 Contributing Factors" should be checked for both the EU and the USSR.

May the EUSSR go down and pull with it NATO into the abyss.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 05:21 | 1242236 Curtis LeMay
Curtis LeMay's picture

The European Parliament is the only elected institution in the EU, but it has no legislative powers. It is, to quote Pravda, “a mere rubber stamp institution, just like the ‘Supreme Soviet’ in the old USSR.”

It has an unelected President and the only institution that can introduce legislation of any kind is the European Commission. This "Commission" is referred commonly to as the "Brussels Politburo". It too has not even one elected official - they are "appointed".

Let's face it, it can't get any more indicting than being labelled "Soviet" by Pravda.They should know.

One of my favorites is the fiasco surrounding the EU's so-called "Lisbon Treaty". This is in fact the EU Constitution, which failed to be ratified by popular referendums in France, Holland and Ireland. What the tyrants in Brussels - with the collusion of the euro "elite" - did after the people voted it down was to simply rename the EU Constitution the "Lisbon Treaty" and then have it ratified by France and Holland's Parliaments instead, bypassing the people entirely. 

Want a clearer sign? As everyone knows, the preamble of US Constitution begins with "We the people of the United States...". The Lisbon Treaty begins with the words "His Majesty, King of the Belgians..."

How about the words of Vaclav Klaus? When he was the President of the EU a couple years ago, he himself branded the EU an "undemocratic and elitist project comparable to Soviet-era dictatorships that forbade free thought".

And guess who is current head of the European Commission - the most powerful entity in the EU? It is none other than José Manuel Durão Barroso. Who is he? One of the former leaders of the underground Maoist MRPP (Reorganising Movement of the Proletariat Party of Portugal), later PCTP/MRPP - the Communist Party of the Portuguese Workers/Revolutionary Movement of the Portuguese Proletariat.

Just google EUSSR and bring along a barf bag.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 05:36 | 1242251 writingsonthewall
writingsonthewall's picture

The author makes rash comparisons which are based on 'folklore' and not really facts.

For example - the claim that the USSR wasn't 'economically efficient' because it had no market driven economy may have been a good argument 5 years ago - but now, are we saying that the comparisons below demonstrate 'economic innefficiency'?

USSR - From 1922 to 1964 - in 40 years the Soviet Union went from a farm dominated aristocracy - to space explorers and super power.

Capitalist nations went from powerful nations to debt dominated society and consequently (as we see now) collapsing economies.


The idea that the soviet union wasn't efficient is laughable - if anything it was TOO efficient - and people in the Gulags will testify to that. However compare that to the massive resources wasted by western economies in the last 3 years with their bank bailouts - the capital advanced to these banks are 'spent resources' - which means we will be unable to 'spend' those resources in the next decade.


There was no inflation in the USSR as prices were controlled - this did mean more economic efficiency as production did not have to handle the burden of rising prices - and the complications they bring.

I'm not saying the USSR was 'better' - but the points raised by the author don't ring true and sounds like more 'western propoganda' to convince us all that our system is better.


As for the central premise raised - well I think it's less likely that the EU will collapse into revolution - partly because it's a voluntary 'club' - unlike the eastern bloc countries - and more importantly the EU isn't having to fight a 'cold war' run by western capitalism who fear the changes and improvements the USSR brought.

The author needs to realise that part of thereason for the inneficiency of the USSR was due to it being constantly under attack - having to build the largest army in the world in order to protect itself from western designs.


I'll say one thing for the USSR - as the 44 MILLION people pick up their foodstamps in the USA, and as the millions find their unemployment benefit expiring - they will face a stark choice of 'work for whatever you can' or 'die of starvation' - I know that in the USSR there was no such abandonment of your fellow man - the state tried (the success of which is debateable) to ensure everyone got fed and housed. This is not the case in many western countries today - in my eyes this is a step backwards for humanity.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 05:58 | 1242257 Curtis LeMay
Curtis LeMay's picture

>From 1922 to 1964 - in 40 years the Soviet Union went from a farm dominated aristocracy - to space explorers and super power.<

Mmm, yeah, by murdering 20 million Ukranians, Russians and other people. Read up on the Holodomor, or the terror-famine of the 1930's.

Should I start in with the Gulags, next?

>The idea that the soviet union wasn't efficient is laughable - if anything it was TOO efficient<

MMM, yeah - again. I reckon that's why the system was so loved by the very people themselves, and why they are so "desperate" to return to it today?

Congratulations. You are the first Troll I have met on ZH...

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 06:35 | 1242271 writingsonthewall
writingsonthewall's picture

I'm not troll pal.

Once again - like most supporters of capitalism you are quick to point out the deficiencies in the USSR system - but are not very quick to recognise these within capitalism.

How many people have died through poverty due to the inequality capitalism produces? How many people have been killed in wars - fought to sustain the demand capitalism has for continued growth? How many people have died from reckless profit makers ignoring safety in the chase for profit (I can think of 11 only last year - died on an oil rig - all in the name of 'efficiency') - but don't trouble yourself with these facts - you just concentrate on the negatives of the USSR to make you feel a little better about Capitalism.

I find it unsurprising that once again you produce 'facts and references' which you claim are accurate - but the truth is they are not.Lets take the Holodomor shall we?

"Scholars disagree on the relative importance of natural factors and bad economic policies as causes of the famine and the degree to which the destruction of the Ukrainian peasantry was premeditated on the part of Stalin"

So scholars disagree about the cause of the Holodomor - but wait 'Curttis Le May' knows the truth. All those scholars are wasting their time studying and stuff - they should just come to the oracle. The fact is that any transition of the level that the USSR went through was always going to cause massive problems - anyone would be a fool to deny that. I suppose it's a little similar to the starvation and upheaval the native indians faced when the white man came to 'take ownership' of their country - or is that a little to close to home for you?


As for the system being 'loved by the people themselves' - well of course you believe it wasn't - however I know a few East germans and they are pragmatic - they say that some things were better - some things were worse. I'd rather take the word of people who actually lived there than those who simply wrote about it from afar.

The truth is the people loved the system.....until the implementation of it caused so much upheaval it created massive fractures in the society - but the idea of working as a collective and for the common good was one well absorbed by all the people - so much that many still believed in communism despite all the problems it brought.

...and of course you would also be forgetting that the areas of poverty in the USSR had a lot less to do with the economic system - and a lot more to do with western trade emargoes - you see, and this might come as a surprise...but your 'leaders' don't like communism, it scares them...all the little people rising and equalising wealth - oh know, that will not do - which is why the USA has had decades long trade emargoes with Cuba - against the will of the American people (who love their cigars) - just in order to make any attempt at communism fail....just as they did with the USSR with similar trade embargoes - hell the American government went to war in Vietnam against the will of it's people simply to 'fight communism' - because the withdrawl signified that they had very little interest in protecting the western slanted people of Vietnam or even Korea for that matter.


...and of course the final chapter in all this is the fall of the west - while the west aligned itself with capitalism as the 'best system' - it now finds out that actually the 'best system' never was....and in fact has been failing for years - propped up by endless failed (and expensive) fixes.


The chicken has come home to roost my friend - it's the old Aesop's fable - the hare and the tortoise. Time to get real and start looking at alternatives and opening your mind - otherwise you're going to be stuck in the same boom bust cycle for a long time with the transfer of wealth heading to a smaller and smaller minority of elites - until of course you end up in the same way the USSR did under Stalin.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 06:45 | 1242274 Holodomor2012
Holodomor2012's picture

Any early soviet accomplishments were due to soviet start up capital; all sent from London and NY.  Schiff, Warburg, Morgan, Rockefeller, et al.

Enjoy this 1911 cartoon featured in the St. Loius Dispatch:

(the chickens have come home to roost and those chickens are called compound interest - something the commies love as much as the rest of the crooks)

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 06:52 | 1242282 writingsonthewall
writingsonthewall's picture

I read some of that link - any article which links islam to communism and a second American revolution is a document of mis-directed hate designed to be devisive in order to cement the prejudices of the fearful of society.

Any investment coming from the UK was more to do with 'getting in the door first' and gambling on the Czar not making a comeback - which is what investors like to do.

You appear to be a troll - because your login is conveniently named for the article in question.


Thu, 05/05/2011 - 06:28 | 1242270 Youri Carma
Youri Carma's picture
Europe won't collapse - The EU will.
Thu, 05/05/2011 - 08:19 | 1242460 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

The ghost of former Treasury Secretary Lloyd Benson was haunting me at lunch today, "Mr. Demeester, I know Hernando de Soto. Hernando de Soto is a friend of mine. Mr. Demeester, you're no Hernando de Soto."  Perhaps it's because the paper reads basically the same when you swap US for EU and reread it.  But it also brings to mind the work of Igor Panarin, not so much his work on the pending collapse of the US twenty years ago, but rather his works on soft power, specifically the roles and structure of Information Warfare in support of Russian economic policy goals.

The current US Dollar hegemony is suffering from some problems.  The current strength of the Euro is a manifestation of some of those problems.  The issues, however, are not confined to the portfolios of the central bankers and finance ministers; the demise of the dollar is a strategic military and political goal of both Russia and China.  Just as certain elements of the political and military classes would like the populace to ignore the cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, certain elements of the political and economic classes would like the populace to ignore not only the cost, but also the very existence, of the currency war in the financial markets.

Of course given the tools and goals advanced by Igor Panarin, Vladimir Lopatin, et al., it is possible that Timmay doesn't even know he is in a war, which would make Chinese school children laughing at him that much more scary.

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