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Spiegel Revisionism 101: "It Will Be Germany's Fault If Euro Fails"

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Up until this point, Spiegel has been relatively objective in its coverage of the Eurozone implosion (unlike Handelsblatt, which we still await to apologize for losing all of its readers millions if not billions for urging them to invest in Greek bonds because it is their patriotic duty). That is until today. In an opinion piece, Henrik Muller writes that "if the Euro fails, Germany will be responsible" lamenting that it "may seem absurd that Berlin is perceived abroad as 'euro Nazis' rather than as a benevolent leader. But should the common currency fail, Berlin will be to blame."

The alternative, just inject billions more in taxpayer funds (and preferably common European taxpayers, which is why urges for a joint European Treasury are so loud) to preserve an artificial status quo which benefits Germany, whose standalone currency should be about 60% higher, while robbing the European periphery blind while it is still enmeshed in a mandatory monetary regime which only benefits Germany. The cry for continued kleptocratic cryptofascism that benefits only the very top is summarized by the following sentence: "The common fate of the Europeans is no longer the top priority. Instead we are juggling national interests." Muller's conclusion: "If the euro-zone breaks apart, it is Germany that will be blamed -- because it was the country that could have saved the euro but didn't do so out of short-sighted self-interest. The damage, should it come to that, will be much more than monetary." Well, that, and because it was the only country that benefited from the euro for the past decade in yet another attempt to redistribute wealth at the sovereign level. Yes, it has a strong economy, and that's great, but the premise of modern monetary economics is one that allows for natural cycles to offset strengths and weaknesses as defined all the way back by Ricardo. Germany should not be blamed for the inevitable dissolution of the euro but for forcing all of its far dumber peers to participate in this money moving scheme, covered in the guise of a cultural integration experiment, in the first place.

And lastly, the people's realization that they have been deceived for years, and subsequent retaliation against an autocratic monetary regime, is not something that will be blamed on any country or entity. It will be something that will be cherished, and if Germany is seen as the reason for the collapse of the Euro, it will be branded a savior, not a villain.... at least by the non-banking population of Europe.

Full Op-Ed:

If the Euro Fails, Germany Will Be Responsible

By Henrik Müller

Given that Germany is shouldering risk to the tune of hundreds of billions for a life-threatening euro crisis, it may seem absurd that Berlin is perceived abroad as 'euro Nazis' rather than as a benevolent leader. But should the common currency fail, Berlin will be to blame.

It is a surreal scenario. Gigantic risks. Staggering sums of money. The degree to which the political debate has become polarized is likewise unbelievable -- both among European Union member states and within those societies themselves.

In the Greece of today, the government has to be protected from its own people. In the Netherlands and Finland, right-wing populist parties have made huge gains on terrain normally held by large, centrist parties. In Germany, Chancellor Angela Merkel isn't even certain of a parliamentary majority when a second bailout package for Greece comes up for a vote.

It is the kind of escalation that would have been unthinkable only a few years ago.

Rescue efforts have been underway for three years now -- first the banks and then the countries. But instead of coming together in times of crisis, Europeans have become divided. And there is a lot at stake. A break-up of the European currency union has now become a realistic scenario. Indeed, the political climate has become so toxic that a collapse of the European Union and of the idea of European unity -- and the entire European postwar order -- also seems possible.

Governments across the Continent are currently working feverishly to prevent such a disaster. On Friday, French President Nicolas Sarkozy and German Chancellor Angela Merkel met in Berlin -- where they reached the smallest-possible compromise. And on Thursday and Friday of this week, European Union leaders will meet at an EU summit. There are still chances for the European project to succeed, but they are becoming increasingly limited -- as main actors in this drama have begun admitting in confidential discussions.

Germany Is Missing an Historic Opportunity

If the euro fails, the Germans will be seen in the end as having been the primary culprits. And rightfully so.

In 2009 and 2010, Germany suddenly found itself in the position of being akin to a European hegemony. It was the only large euro-zone member state that was economically healthy and had more competitive economic structures and less public debt than the others. Germany could have acted as a "benevolent hegemony" -- indeed should have. Similar to the United States after World War II, Germany should have been prepared to provide generous amounts of money very early on -- tied to the creation of new, more powerful European institutions, including a new European Union treaty. Merkel could have -- and should have -- led Europe towards a common future.

Instead, national politics in Germany became transfixed by state elections with leaders making populist claims that there was no money for feeble southern European countries. Rather than continuing the traditions established as far back as the times of former Chancellor Konrad Adenauer in the 1950s -- a period which saw European countries anchored ever more firmly in a European framework -- we are now returning to a balance-of-power approach. The common fate of the Europeans is no longer the top priority. Instead we are juggling national interests.

Or rather, what some consider to be their national interests. Just take the German government's wish that private creditors also be made to pay for part of the debt crisis. At the end of the day, it is little more than symbolism. Debt forgiveness wouldn't help Greece at all. On the contrary, it would remove Greece from the capital markets for many years to come and it would eliminate any possibility for the country to ensure its own credit for the foreseeable future.

Greek Bashing Is More Popular than Action

The German government also seems to care little that the European Central Bank is slipping into serious distress. Speculation is heating up, further exacerbating the crisis. Nevertheless, Berlin is still insisting on a haircut: as a matter of principle, but also because there are many in the government who would like to show the financial markets (and the Greeks) that they mean business.

Throughout the crisis, the German government has behaved as if we were still living in the 1990s, as if there were a serious alternative to today's currency club. And it has ignored the fact that our financial system is so tightly interwoven that if part of it fails, we could all fall. From the very start of the crisis, there was no other choice but to expand transfers within the euro zone. The same held true for a deepening of political union within the common currency area. Unfortunately, Greece bashing is more popular.

Now payback time has come. Germany is in the impossible situation of having ponied up hundreds of billions of euros but is nevertheless being pilloried. Some Greek newspapers refer to Germans as "euro Nazis," and not as a benevolent leading power. The fact that the situation has deteriorated so far does not speak well for statesmanship in Berlin -- and that is putting it mildly.

Instead of showing steadfast solidarity, the markets are testing the potential collapse of the euro. And that scenario is becoming increasingly likely -- not because anybody wants it to but because so many different players must come together to find a solution and it is quite possible they will not succeed in doing so.

If the euro-zone breaks apart, it is Germany that will be blamed -- because it was the country that could have saved the euro but didn't do so out of short-sighted self-interest. The damage, should it come to that, will be much more than monetary.

 

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Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:23 | 1391857 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Let them eat notgeld euros.

WWIII is just around the corner. Maybe that's why the chinese are duplicating whole european towns like Hallstatt.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:43 | 1391948 He_Who Carried ...
He_Who Carried The Sun's picture

You should be hung by your nostrils.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:47 | 1391965 eureka
eureka's picture

MSM should be hung by its whoring blow(-viating)/snot-spewing/distracting nostrils.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:58 | 1392017 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

This is like a stupid action movie, when the bad guy holds a gun to the hostage's head, and says to the good guy, "If you don't do what I say, then the hostage gets shot, and it's going to be YOUR fault!"

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:27 | 1392105 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

The royal families of europe are already starting to flee. This is going to happen very soon.

It's no coincidence the nuclear reactors are starting to fail. 

At the Paris Air Show, Boeing disclosed several 747-8 superjumbos have been bought by "secretive VIPs". Expect those planes to be loaded not only with the royal families, but with GOLD!

 

http://in.reuters.com/article/2011/06/22/idINIndia-57847520110622

 

 

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:35 | 1392139 spartan117
spartan117's picture

And they be moving to China? 

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:41 | 1392175 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Moving in to Cheney's secret Wyoming underground survival compound, manned and guarded by Private Security cronys he made rich during Iraq

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:46 | 1392179 Clay Hill
Clay Hill's picture

Paraguay?

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 15:09 | 1395943 smiler03
smiler03's picture

Lichtenstein ?

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:53 | 1392002 Ethics Gradient
Ethics Gradient's picture

Quite possibly, but given that only one of the PIIGS (the P) doesn't have a history of serious organised criminal violence, I would say that popular terrorist uprisings are more likely than WWIII.

That's years away though and would require the above mentioned Germany not to pull out of it's own free will once virtually everyone in the EU is bankrupt.

Talking of world wars, it seems rather a shame that 70 odd million died in WWII in the name of self determination. The European members of that statistic seem to have died for nothing.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:43 | 1392093 kaiten
kaiten's picture

That´s a shame, indeed. Just like native indians, not only they died for self determination(of others), they were also robbed of their land. How sad ....

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 13:04 | 1392255 SilverDosed
SilverDosed's picture

Yet ignorant people here hoist Andrew Jackson up as an idol, wtf, that bastard was in charge of slauthering my anscestors. Today what he did would be called genocide and ethnic cleansing, all to clear the way for slave plantations working for the corporate machine. Same as it ever was I guess.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 15:00 | 1392688 morty_schatzberg
morty_schatzberg's picture

Andrew Jackson is a hero. The only man to ever have defeated the bankers. America's meteoric rise to power would never have been possible without his having "cleared the way" for civilization. It was later that the bankers returned along with their tax and wage slavery.  You should thank him for the reservations. He/we were not obligated to provide them. Random unprovoked scalping and slaughtering of my ancestors, and you have the nerve to claim genocide.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 15:12 | 1392763 eureka
eureka's picture

You are a neo-nazi. You should leave zerohedge and take your one dimensional views to some kkk site.

Jackson was "good" for some things,anti-Fed Bank, and a fascist swine for others - murdering the very "indians" who helped him defeat the Brits.

If you believe might is right - well, then you and your ancestors have no particular claims to superiority - you are beneath principles, beneath civilized, conversational legitimacy.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 15:32 | 1392816 gorillaonyourback
gorillaonyourback's picture

war is a part of human nature, to deny that, is living in fantasy land.  even the indians fought amongst themselves for resources.  Its clan fighting clan at its basic. 

oil has allowed the population to skyrocket without fighting for resources.  Think about it could we feed all these people without oil,,,,, NO and not only but FUCK NO.

We all take a side for our own self preservation,  Andrew Jackson was a great man and sought to protect his clan(America), 

90% of all you fuckers out there would be dead and maybe including myself if there is no more oil.  the difference is I and small few, would attribute death, to not being strong enough to survive.

you learn about Darwinsm in school but most of the fuctards on this planet don't live their life like they believe in Darwinsm.  But then you ask most people do you believe in Darwinism?,,,, and 90% says YES       that's some disconnect wouldn't you say

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 15:38 | 1392855 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Real Politik, baby.

Grow up and learn how the world really works.

Definition of REALPOLITIK : politics based on practical and material factors rather than on theoretical or ethical objectives
Wed, 06/22/2011 - 16:31 | 1393053 kaiten
kaiten's picture

Great you see it this way. So you probably dont mind mexicans taking back the southern US.

Yeeee-haw. Real politik, baby.

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 11:26 | 1394965 morty_schatzberg
morty_schatzberg's picture

neo-nazi ROFL. According your one-dimensional definition 90%+ of Americans born pre-1960 would be neo-nazis. Might-makes-right is nature's law. American colonists saw unclaimed land and took it. Fortunately you do not have the wherewithall to determine "conversational legitimacy". Damn that pesky American First Ammendment to the constitution of the American states. Jackson did not "murder" the indians, he sent them to Oklahoma, nor was he a fascist. You are the swine, and a symptom or active participant in the destruction of America as a nation.

Sat, 06/25/2011 - 08:37 | 1400835 kaiten
kaiten's picture

Pre-1960 born americans will become minority from 2050 onwards. You know, the might-makes-right law of nature. So enjoy your constitution and ammendments while they last.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 15:26 | 1392807 kaiten
kaiten's picture

Are you demented or just plain stupid? Unprovoked? How about stealing their land and trying to exterminate their whole race/culture? Let´s just hope you´re under influence because if you wrote that with clear head Im pity for your worthless, miserable life.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 15:46 | 1392864 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Native Americans actually drew first blood. The ones who sided with the evil French deserved to die.

The Brits started the money for scalps.

Europeans are evil. Always have been. Always will be.

And if you didn't know, the reason the northeast US was essentially empty when the colonists arrived, it was because one tribe had just genocided another.

Almost as if it were meant to happen the way it did.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 16:32 | 1393055 kaiten
kaiten's picture

"The ones who sided with the evil French deserved to die."

Like american settlers in the War of Independence?

"Europeans are evil. Always have been. Always will be."

So the europeans are evil, but you, advocating genocide, are saint, I guess.

 

Now, let me ask you something. Arent you a bit confused in your life? I mean, I know it´s difficult to think without a brain, but then, perhaps, you should not even try. At least you wont get that nasty headache.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 16:25 | 1393042 trav7777
trav7777's picture

The land was mostly purchased.  It was initially settled by small groups of immigrants.  The injuns' immigration policy was slaughter.  So, justice had to prevail.

Had the injuns just been able to get along without slaughtering and intertribal genocide, perhaps a better solution could have been worked out.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 17:03 | 1393182 kaiten
kaiten's picture

Yeah, this jungle law mentality is great when you´re on the stronger side. So let´s just hope there arent any aliens out there waiting to land on our planet.

 

Or that chinese and indians wont start looking for a land for their 1+ billion population, sometimes around 2050, when their economies are multiple time of the western ones ....

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 11:28 | 1394996 morty_schatzberg
morty_schatzberg's picture

Stole what land? They were nomads. In addition you can thank the colonists for your meaningless existence and first world standard of living.

Sat, 06/25/2011 - 08:49 | 1400848 kaiten
kaiten's picture

They were human beings, first and foremost. Now, Im curious how you gonna justify their near extermination, aka genocide.

I only need to thank God that I dont have to meet dements like you in real life. Just reading your idiocy is punishing enough.

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 01:52 | 1393938 jackbooted gauleiter
jackbooted gauleiter's picture

Andrew Jackson should be posthumously impeached. He is the man who was responsible for the Hurricane Katrina disaster. He conquored New Orleans and took it away from the British after the war had finished. If he hadn't done this, New Orleans would have been a British enclave and the disaster none of Washington's business. He is to blame for all the embarassment that Bush and Co faced when the city was flattened.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 16:22 | 1393032 trav7777
trav7777's picture

your ancestors were savages.  Evolution is like that.  You should weep for neandarthal

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 02:03 | 1393950 jackbooted gauleiter
jackbooted gauleiter's picture

WWII was not about self determination, it was about socialism.

It was about building the perfect society, and since the leaders of the main protagonists (Germany and Russia) were interested in society not individuals, they were willing to sacrifice millions of individuals in order to impose the society they preferred... (National Socialism, or Soviet Socialism).

The fact is... most of the population of Europe is made up of foreigners... and that is true whatever your nationality.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:04 | 1392020 Greyhat
Greyhat's picture

Neocon-Spiegel simply helps trying to break up the German government, cause they support old moneys peacekeeping internationalists. Spiegel supports Lipsky in this task, who demanded unlimited German support for Greece without any condition. Such a surrender would break up conservatives and liberal parties in Berlin. Thats what the neocon world warmongers try after paleoconservative Germany remained neutral in the Libya conflict. Read the guardian.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/jun/16/imf-forced-germany-to-gua...

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:41 | 1392164 caconhma
caconhma's picture

The now-day Germans are just stupid. They still apologize for the WWII crimes they did not commit.

How stupid could Hitler be thinking that British imperial gangsters are their cousins? WOW. Instead of looking for peace with Brits, Hitler had to deal with them like American were dealing with Japanese, i.e., if nukes on civilian population did not do the job then American were ready to use massive chemical attack on again civilian population in violation of all treaties America was a signatory to.

No wonder, after all, America proudly implemented a genocide against the native America population. Just watch when shit hits the fan and the American economy collapse.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 15:21 | 1392791 eureka
eureka's picture

What are all you neo-nazis doing on zerohedge ?

Go play in the dirt - if you have access to any.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 16:29 | 1393062 trav7777
trav7777's picture

GFY idiot

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:24 | 1391862 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

Twisted logic.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:28 | 1391882 Medea
Medea's picture

It's not even logic. It's the flailing, erratic desperation of a death rattle.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:38 | 1391927 Missing_Link
Missing_Link's picture

Yep.  Blame-the-victim mentality.  Greeks fuck up, and Germans get the blame.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:54 | 1392003 Thomas
Thomas's picture

Europe has been a bunch of warring tribes long before the invention of Europe. Seems like we are headed that way again. Here it comes again.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:44 | 1392097 kaiten
kaiten's picture

Funny what you write. Your country wasnt even one century old and you were butchering each other like madmen. Short memory? More like, selective memory, I´d say?

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:59 | 1392224 j0nx
j0nx's picture

And another civil war is brewing behind the scenes as we speak. Only this time it will be liberals vs. conservatives and I don't mean GOP vs. Democrats either since neither of those parties tend to represent what they are supposed to stand for.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 15:25 | 1392805 eureka
eureka's picture

Nah, you're right, it will be the retarded neo-nazis, xenophobic, racist, isolationist, self-righteous, provincial knucleheads against everybody else - and each other, for these morons surely hate everybody - and what are they doing on zerohedge?

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 13:07 | 1392254 anonnn
anonnn's picture

Astute!

The nobles simply cannot think of any thing else to do except rule or dominate commoners. The justify it as "It's our duty. We deserve our privileges.".

 

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 02:02 | 1393953 jackbooted gauleiter
jackbooted gauleiter's picture

Headed that way again? When did we stop? Just because you don't see the conflict it doesn't mean that it's not there.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:08 | 1392036 hbjork1
hbjork1's picture

IMO, Correct!

Only the uninvolved Nordics will come away criticism free.  The German effort toward greater unity is noble but have they, once again, "bit off more than they can chew"?

 

 

 

 

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:35 | 1391923 Medea
Medea's picture

Double post. Wrist slap for me.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:14 | 1392057 hbjork1
hbjork1's picture

Medea, 

Ain't your fault.  Twichey finger pad, no mouse?  It's that #&*x&$% gotcha.

On a different machine, I found that "Disable rich-text" before the save and slowing down works

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:17 | 1392059 hbjork1
hbjork1's picture

Medea, 

Joke is on me.  Repeat.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:38 | 1391928 He_Who Carried ...
He_Who Carried The Sun's picture

Der Spiegel is always looking for some sort of partisan statement to prove they are mavericks of truth. Every so often they fail badly...

This case is ridiculous. Of all European nations, German GDP growth between 1990 and 2010 comes in as the THIRD LAST. They have not been blood-sucking Europe, they have saved their way out of misery while the otheres plastered the streets with money they did not own. That's the difference.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:44 | 1391954 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

During that period, "GDP growth" has meant "increased debt production."

One of those things that makes you go hmm...

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:51 | 1391982 Quintus
Quintus's picture

Now that wouldn't have anything to do with them taking on the burden of bringing East Germany into the 20th century would it?  I suspect if you take that self-inflicted factor out of the equation, Germany has done rather well out of their artificially low currency (Like China has) and captive Euro markets.  

If only they'd sold all those lovely German vehicles to someone who could actually afford to pay for them though, instead of the Greeks and Irish.  It looks like their mercantilist strategy is going to bite them in the ass now that the debts are falling due.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:37 | 1392146 eureka
eureka's picture

Q, RE: "Germany has done rather well out of their artificially low currency"

Is it your opinion that he EURO is artificially low?

"If only they'd sold all those lovely German vehicles to someone who could actually afford to pay for them though, instead of the Greeks and Irish"

I believe China is buying many more German autos than Greece and ireland - AND - China is also FINANCING the German autos that US citizens buy.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:53 | 1392201 Quintus
Quintus's picture

The Euro is (by some estimates) about 60% lower at this point than a German-only currency would be given the strength of their exports and surpluses.  Tagging on all the deadweight periphery countries has seen to that.

Yes Germany has now focused more on exporting capital goods and vehicles to Asia since their captive Euro markets have gone belly-up.  Problem is the captive markets haven't paid for most of what they bought from Germany yet.  Have a look and the inter-country debt figures if you want.

Finally, yes, you are right.  China will come to understand at some point that selling people things and then lending them the money to pay for them works splendidly, right up until you want the money back and find they can't pay.  Oops. 

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:19 | 1392066 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

AND the Germans only agreed to the Euro if those conditions would be kept: 1) no inflation, i.e. no excessive monetary expansion 2) NO FISCAL TRANSFERS, i.e. every Sovereign keeps it's own budget, it's own taxes, etc. Now all exporting countries are the target of a new "globalist transfer party" which says: you have to produce the item I want AND you have to pay for it, too...

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:29 | 1392118 Quintus
Quintus's picture

Indeed they did.  Article 125 of the Lisbon Treaty.  However, as any good Eurosceptic would have been able to tell the Germans before they signed up, in Brussels rules and laws only mean what the Eurocrats want them to mean.  Just because something is explicitly signed into law does not mean that it cannot be ignored later on in the interests of expediency.

Remind me: What happened when Germany totally failed to keep within the legal deficit limits set out in the 'Growth and Stability pact'?  Nothing at all.  In Brussels, laws are just bits of paper with ink on them.  

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:47 | 1392188 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

That was fun! The shame! I cherished the moment!
OK, it was a failure, still, it was for a short time. And reunification was one of the main goals of the Federal Republic.
Which causes the question: what do you do when a sovereign is naughty? Brussels has laws which may or may not be applied by the member nations. It takes the -crat out of Eurocrat. :-)

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:35 | 1392156 A Man without Q...
A Man without Qualities's picture

I agree.  Der Speigel has been highly critical of nations such as Greece, so it looks like this article is designed to counter that position (a bit like the UK Daily Telegraph writing a pro-Euro article, though that would never happen.)  The key reason for lower GDP growth in Germany has been constrained borrowing by the state and by consumers, most obviously seen in the lack of housing bubble.  

In some ways it is easy to be critical of the German banking system, particularly the idiots in the Landesbanks.  On the one hand, Germany had high lending standards to domestic creditors, but on the other, were far too lenient lending to foreign institutions without questioning their lending standards.

However, the problem remains a credit problem, rather than a currency one.  It is just that by surrendering sovereignty of the currency, it has removed the traditional mechanism by which the weaker nations, especially those with poor tax collecting records had, which was devaluation via inflation.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 18:05 | 1393318 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

A drowning Human will do anything to save themselves from drowning, including pushing the lifeguard under the waves.  Here comes "Der Speigel" to fault the lifeguard...

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 02:08 | 1393957 jackbooted gauleiter
jackbooted gauleiter's picture

Die Bastarde!

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:25 | 1391868 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

Zionic Media Engaged

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:27 | 1391876 qussl3
qussl3's picture

Errr wouldnt a weaker eur serve the germans even better?

What kind of fucktard bails out his dingbat neighbour so the selfsame dick can shit his lawn again?

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:56 | 1391996 eureka
eureka's picture

"What kind of fucktard bails out his dingbat neighbour...?"

ANSWER: - the kind who seeks contagion; if one goes, more may, dropping all exit'ing economies to lower purchasing power - of BMWs, AUDIs, BENZs etc etc etc

Remember: LEVERAGE, PUMPING, BLOWING BUBBLES IS THE ONLY GAME IN TOWN - FOR ANY GLOBALIST MODEL - total interdependency means total pumping (of cedits and bailouts) - UNTILL THE END (this is where Jim Morrison's SCREAM sets in).

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:24 | 1391878 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

When all else fails, blame Germany....probably the only real producer of real goods in all of Europe.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:36 | 1391935 fonestar
fonestar's picture

I like sardines.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:51 | 1392208 ATM
ATM's picture

Good. Most of my Southern European relatives are sardine fishermen.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:37 | 1391940 He_Who Carried ...
He_Who Carried The Sun's picture

You've got that right.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:07 | 1392033 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Someone ought to carve a swastika on your fat, greasy, smelly, porcine butt.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:22 | 1392087 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

French ERYX Misfire

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGf-sS4js5Y

You can also look up how badly the French have screwed up the joint defense systems the Brits were stupid enough to trust them on.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:28 | 1391883 redpill
redpill's picture

"If the euro-zone breaks apart, it is Germany that will be blamed -- because it was the country that could have saved the euro but didn't do so out of short-sighted self-interest."

 

 

A looter's line if I ever heard one.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:33 | 1391904 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Germany's bit of sanity is to blame for the downfall of Europe...logic and sanity has LEFT the building!

'Short sighted self interest' in other words Germany didnt want to print to oblivion and go into massive debt to put a temporary band aid patch over an obvious failure.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 15:29 | 1392815 malek
malek's picture

Isn't this a fantastic attempt to reframe the discussion by that lying sack of shit writer?

So far I would have guessed bailing out Greece again would be the thing to do "out of short-sighted self-interest", while pushing them out or letting the Eurozone break apart actually the long term sustainable path...

 

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:36 | 1391919 Ray1968
Ray1968's picture

Wesley Mooch couldn't have said it better himself!

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:27 | 1391892 nasdaq99
nasdaq99's picture

it's completely true.  it's merely a math problem for the big german banks and industrials.  they will decide whether the GARGANTUAN benefits of the peripherals dragging the Euro lower, consequently their own trade advantages, is worth the price of bailing them out.  right now it must be.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:34 | 1391909 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Whoever races down the hill into the dragons gaping maw first WINS!

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:28 | 1391899 swissinv
swissinv's picture

thought it was Sarko pusing for another rescue!?

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:31 | 1391900 nasdaq99
nasdaq99's picture

it's completely true.  it's merely a math problem for the big german banks and industrials.  they will decide whether the GARGANTUAN benefits of the peripherals dragging the Euro lower, consequently their own trade advantages, is worth the price of bailing them out.  right now it must be.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:33 | 1391906 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

as if there were a serious alternative to today's currency club

Oh.  Well that's that, then.  Good to know there's no alternative.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:30 | 1391908 PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture

"ElErian's PIMCO has said Europe risks wasting money for nothing by pumping billions of dollars into the ailing economy.

"Nothing has been done to enhance growth," he said. "No single (Greek) indicator has shown strength. They are afraid a restructuring would hurt European banks.""

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8591262/Pimco-warns-G...

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:35 | 1391913 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Well thats all it really comes down to, no bank wants to be the first to take the massive cornholing thats coming to them all eventually.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:36 | 1391915 shortus cynicus
shortus cynicus's picture

This article is full of leftist, fascist, fabian bullshit.

 

Be aware: spiegel has an agenda.

It's funny to see how they try to force some views again and again, only to be rebutted every time by majority of opposite comments.

Readers are not so dumb as they were in the past.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:44 | 1391951 Manipulism
Manipulism's picture

Like the FTD.

This F..tard is one the same path>

Chaotische Laiendarsteller spielen griechische Tragödie

Längst ist das Desaster Athens ein europäisches geworden. Die Krise deckt schonungslos auf, woran die EU krankt: Alle reden von der Bedeutung des gemeinsamen Hauses Europa, denken aber nur an die eigenen vier Wände. Leider auch in Deutschland. von Thomas Schmoll

http://www.ftd.de/politik/europa/:europaeische-krise-chaotische-laiendar...

Sorry only in german.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:32 | 1391917 Dick Darlington
Dick Darlington's picture

What did the others get? Well, too low interest rates, esp for the periphery, for a decade which made possible the rampant housing bubbles all over Europe. Not to mention the accumulation of other private sector debt. Some of those bubbles have already burst like in Ireland and Spain but there are many waiting to do so. Look at France, Netherlands, Finland... It sure was fun for 10 years but like every ponzi schemes, the ones still standing will collapse. Euro experiment has been and is an epic failure, political utopia without economic grounds. The kleptocratic elites of Europe succeeded to keep the sheeple blinded and happy by providing too cheap credit for everybody but the house is already burning and fire department was shut down because of austerity. I say let it burn.

And in other news we get the confirmation that Asians really are the new Germans when it comes to investing in synthetic cdo's. Good luck with that.

06-22 11:22: EFSF says Asia bought around half of the new EUR 3bln 5-year bond issue
Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:37 | 1391920 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

The assertion that the critics are calling them a form of "Nazis" is a sure sign of collective insecurity.

A Nazi comparison would be a cheap shot.

On the other hand the idea of Franco/German continental economic domination rings true does it not?

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:48 | 1391971 granolageek
granolageek's picture

That's been a blatantly obvious bit of Franco-German policy at least since the sixties. (As long as I can remember.)  The EU and all its predecessors have been carefully structured (Remember the Inner 6 and the Outer 7?) so that France and Germany together could ram through anything they wanted.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:53 | 1391984 InconvenientCou...
InconvenientCounterParty's picture

"The assertion that the critics are calling them a form of "Nazis" is a sure sign of collective insecurity."

Yea, my bullshit detector went off after reading that. For people that live outside the propaganda bubble of Faux News, that word (and a number of other words) actually mean something.

In hard times, people look for inspirational leaders. You're not going to find any true leaders among the financial oligarchy, but it's not a stretch to imagine leaders coming from within the core of the EU.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:37 | 1392144 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

As a big fan of your works: not for "continental" Europeans. Franco/German cooperation crosses the latin/germanic cultural gap and as long as the smaller countries in between get their say the compromise results are sound enough for most people of the Eurozone, particularly in the South with their distrust of their own politicians... It's much scarier when France and the UK agree on something.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 13:06 | 1392250 richard in norway
richard in norway's picture

france and britian agree, has that ever happened?

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 13:34 | 1392347 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Well, it happens from time to time. And it's usually quite spectacular. See the carving up of the Middle East, the Egyptian intervention against Nasser's nationalization of the Suez Canal (the US called them back) and this year the joint intervention in Tripolitania, just to name a few.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:38 | 1391930 Financial Newbie
Financial Newbie's picture

Nothing wrong with failing, as long as you learn something from it and try not to fail the same way again. 

 

What's worse (and I see it in government/bureaucracy, where I work, all the time) is when you know you've failed and yet you push on because you'd rather not deal with the consequences of failure.  This completely stifles innovation.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:39 | 1391934 swissaustrian
swissaustrian's picture

Bullshit.

Here is Germany´s a.k.a. Deutsche Bank´s plan:

- Use taxpayer money to buy time for the banks.

- Delay all necessary action until banks reduced their exposure to Greece to acceptable levels by selling them to careless clients, the ecb and stupid pension funds

- Then introduce haircuts for the bondholders.

In essence, socialize the losses, privatize the gains.

Der Spiegel is just an ignorant keynesian trash paper. They have no idea about economics.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:42 | 1391936 Franken_Stein
Franken_Stein's picture

 

It's not enough to give more money.

This money also has to be not squandered, it has to be invested in projects that have a long lasting value and create actual capital and surpluses !

 

Plastering the countryside with one unfinished hotel and airport next to the other does not !

 

And that's the crux here.

One can pour as much money as one wants into a bottomless pit of unneeded construction and tax-evasion,

but it will NEVER be enough.

 

First you need to stop the leakage before your pour more water (read: liquidity) into the broken jug.

 

But tell this to a fat-bellied Eurocrat central planner in far away Brussels.

He lives in a bubble of taxpayer-funded splendor and spendthrift.

And that's why centrally controlled regimes always fail due to misallocation of capital and the growth of corruption, decadency, megalomania and bad decision making at the center.

 

Why do they always make the same historic mistakes again ?

 

The other conclusion is:

It is intended, to impoverish the masses and to create the NEW WORLD ORDER.

Nah, that's just a crazy conspiracy theory.

 

Oh wait:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLIYZ1HubMY

 

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:41 | 1391959 qussl3
qussl3's picture

By definition paying greek pensions is to squander the money.

It's consumption that had hasnt been earned through production.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:59 | 1391962 baby_BLYTHE
baby_BLYTHE's picture

.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:50 | 1391975 Instant Wealth
Instant Wealth's picture

A furious discussion going on since yesterday and about 98 percent of "Spiegel online" forum participants are screaming "BULLSHIT" now.  Sorry, Henryk Müller, seems like this sort of propaganda isn´t working anymore. You can´t fool all of the people all of the time.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:12 | 1392054 shortus cynicus
shortus cynicus's picture

spiegel = collectivism agenda

 

The only sense to read it online is comments section - it's always good to know what is the common understanding on specific subject.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:12 | 1392063 shortus cynicus
shortus cynicus's picture

spiegel = collectivism agenda

 

The only sense to read it online is comments section - it's always good to know what is the common understanding on specific subject.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:15 | 1392077 shortus cynicus
shortus cynicus's picture

spiegel = collectivism agenda

 

The only sense to read it online is comments section - it's always good to know what is the common understanding on specific subject.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 14:25 | 1392537 shortus cynicus
shortus cynicus's picture

spiegel = collectivism agenda

 

The only sense to read it online is comments section - it's always good to know what is the common understanding on specific subject.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:49 | 1391977 g
g's picture

Give me a break. In large part the Greeks did this to themselve. No one forced them to spend beyond their means. They fudged the books to get into the euro club. The the retirement age is rediculously low, do they even work a whole workday?, no one pays taxes, and unions have helped to squander the nations wealth. What is ironic is that the Greek people wholeheartedly and knowingly went along with the party, until as is evident now, that its ending. No more free handouts for the Greek people, oh no.

 

Of course the banking system is corrupt along with the politicians. Goldman was a big facilitator of Greece's cooked books. The banks should never have received bailout, while those putting up the money only have their selfish interests in mind. The euro zone is fucked. For cying out loud let Greece default and be done with it.

 

Greece as much as the creditor nations need to accept responsibility for their actions. To scape goat Germany is a bunch of bullshit. They both have some fault in this game. But in the end you must be responsible for your own actions, and the responsibility for Greece lies on Greece's shoulders.

 

This whole thing is fucking ludicrous, just as the situation in the US is and the rest of the world, a broken fucking system beyond repair.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:52 | 1391994 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

If I were a german you could blame me all you want, but i will not work until 65 to support greeks retiring at 55.

Kick the greeks out now.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 13:57 | 1392417 MS7
MS7's picture

Ummm, in case you haven't noticed, they're not letting the Greeks leave.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 17:19 | 1393248 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

yeah breaking up is hard to do.

The majority of Greeks don't want to leave either, but that will change.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 13:55 | 1392412 MS7
MS7's picture

Your comment, accusing an entire nation of being lazy and corrupt, is the thing that's ludicrous and beyond repair.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:50 | 1391979 morty_schatzberg
morty_schatzberg's picture

Blame Germany. Right. As if they ever really wanted an alien financial bureaucracy standing on their necks. This all falls back on classic Marxists, globalists, and international jewry. Another way of saying the same thing three times.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:53 | 1391998 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

A lesser known fact of equal importance: Germany was responsible for the demise of the 8 Track Tape player....the evil bastards.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:53 | 1391999 XRAYD
XRAYD's picture


Ritschl: In the 20th century, Germany started two world wars, the second of which was conducted as a war of annihilation and extermination, and subsequently its enemies waived its reparations payments completely or to a considerable extent. No one in Greece has forgotten that Germany owes its economic prosperity to the grace of other nations.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: What do you mean by that?

 

Ritschl: The Greeks are very well aware of the antagonistic articles in the German media. If the mood in the country turns, old claims for reparations could be raised, from other European nations as well. And if Germany ever had to honor them, we would all be taken the cleaners. Compared with that, we can be grateful that Greece is being indulgently reorganized at our expense. If we follow public opinion here with its cheap propaganda and not wanting to pay, then eventually the old bills will be presented again.

 

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Looking at history, what would be the best solution for Greece -- and for Germany?

Ritschl: The German bankruptcies in the last century show that the sensible thing to do now would be to have a real reduction of the debt. Anyone who has lent money to Greece would then have to give up a considerable part of what they were owed. Some banks would not be able to cope with that, so there would have to be new aid programs. For Germany, this could be expensive, but we will have to pay either way. At least Greece would then have the chance to start over.

 

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,769703,00.html

 

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:58 | 1392004 Slin
Slin's picture

Wow..... Continue to pay for all of Europe with your hardwork, or.... You're a Nazi!!!   Scumbag zionists. 

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:55 | 1392007 treemagnet
treemagnet's picture

How "strong" can Germany's economy be if it relies on an export driven market that feeds overindebted consumerism elsewhere at the personal/regional/national level?  I know they're amazing engineers, they're creative, social paradise and all that - but they're still a player in the same stupid game tied together with trillions in derivatives.  I've never understood that - somebody educate me.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 17:07 | 1393191 TK7936
TK7936's picture

Simple -they lost the war and the winner defnes the gameboard. Germany correctly moved on and became good players, that doesnt mean they can redefine the game. That would be up to the Americans this time.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:56 | 1392009 BanjoDoug
BanjoDoug's picture

It's pretty clear this author looks thru a more liberal lens than I do....  This is analogous to telling us Oklahomans & Texans that it's out fault that California can't get & keep their fiscal house together AND it's out fault if we don't want to loan them more money (that we'll never get repaid).  And using the term Okie-nazi or Tex-nazi is irresponsible....   THIS WILL put the German National Socialists in power quicker than anything else.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:05 | 1392041 g
g's picture

Great point, seems this happend before.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:57 | 1392010 BanjoDoug
BanjoDoug's picture

It's pretty clear this author looks thru a more liberal lens than I do....  This is analogous to telling us Oklahomans & Texans that it's out fault that California can't get & keep their fiscal house together AND it's out fault if we don't want to loan them more money (that we'll never get repaid).  And using the term Okie-nazi or Tex-nazi is irresponsible....   THIS WILL put the German National Socialists in power quicker than anything else.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:06 | 1392029 XRAYD
XRAYD's picture

A group of American investors have filed several lawsuits to pressure Germany to honor bonds issued by the Weimar Republic. Hitler banned repayment of the bonds and Berlin says a deadline for registering the bonds passed decades ago. Should Germany lose, it could cost the country billions.

 

http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,716244,00.html


Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:03 | 1392031 JR
JR's picture

In some ways the current Greek episode is like Versailles reparations all over again for the German people, reparations that caused the economic destruction of Germany.

This time, with the French government owning major portions of the two banks Societe Generale and Credit Agricole (CA), the French need to have Greece bailed out to save their national interests in the banks. IOW, it’s Germany again that needs to come up with the money to pay France.

Of Versailles, Francisco Nitti, the prime minister of Italy, wrote:”The cost of the war of all participants totaled three times the value of all property in Germany. She was ordered to pay an impossible 1.7 billion marks a year (in foreign exchange) for 59 years, until 1988.

The greed cemented into the Treaty of Versailles led to Germany’s 1923 hyperinflation and forced impoverishment that led, ultimately, to WWII.

Then, in a Reparations Agreement between Israel and West Germany signed on September 10, 1952, “reparations would become a decisive part of Israel's income, comprising as high as 87.5% of the state income in 1956,” according to Wikipedia.

Later, “on behalf of US citizens, the US Foreign Claims Settlement Commission reached agreements with the German government in 1998 and 1999 to compensate Holocaust victims who immigrated to the US after the war…”  

“In 2009, Israeli Finance Minister Yuval Steinitz announced that he will demand a further 450 million to 1 billion Euros in reparations from Germany on behalf of some 30,000 Israeli forced labor survivors. Israel has also sought large discounts on the purchase of two German-built MEKO warships.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reparations_Agreement_between_Israel_and_West_Germany

In an interesting aside, STUDYBLOG shows that the van of greed and rape of Greece, led by the IMF/Fed, continues at full speed. Writes SB:

“If the bail-out were designed to help Greece get out of debt, then France and Germany would not have insisted on future mulit-billion military contracts. As Daniel Cohn-Bendit, the MEP and leader of the Green group in the European Parliament explained: ‘In the past three months we have forced Greece to confirm several billion dollars in arms contracts.  French frigates that the Greeks will have to buy for 2.5 billion euros. Helicopters, planes, German submarines.’”

http://sturdyblog.wordpress.com/2011/06/18/democracy-vs-mythology-the-battle-in-syntagma-square/

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:15 | 1392075 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

--In some ways the current Greek episode is like Versailles reparations all over again for the German people, reparations that caused the economic destruction of Germany.

 

Well, yes, but everyone was suddenly employed all over the world, now weren't they?

 

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:39 | 1392158 Instant Wealth
Instant Wealth's picture

Wasn´t that Francois Mitterand, who giggled "Versailles without shooting"  in a conversation with Helmut Kohl ?

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:04 | 1392037 XRAYD
XRAYD's picture

NOT many people noticed at the time, but World War I ended this year [2010]. Well, in a sense it did: on Oct. 3, Germany finally paid off the interest on bonds that had been taken out by the shaky Weimar government in an effort to pay the war reparations imposed by the Treaty of Versailles.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/26/opinion/26macmillan.html?pagewanted=all


Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:09 | 1392042 dcb
dcb's picture

He is correct that Germany will be blamed, but in my view they should hold their heads high because of it. It isn't something to be ashamed of to stand up to banker tyranny/ facism. In fact germany standing up to facism is great.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:07 | 1392050 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Just slap a QR code onto the Euro. LOL

Euro currency manipulation just got a bit easier

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:19 | 1392076 JR
JR's picture

Is the author of this op-ed piece the Henrik Muller who is Director Finance & Administration bei DILAS Diodenlaser GmbH?

If not, who is he?

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:31 | 1392124 Clay Hill
Clay Hill's picture

"If the euro-zone breaks apart, it is Germany that will be blamed -- because it was the country that could have saved the euro but didn't do so out of short-sighted self-interest."

 

If the euro-zone breaks apart, it is Germany that will be praised -- because it was the country that freed the euro-banker's slaves out of long-sighted self-interest.

There, it's fixed.

 

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:32 | 1392138 g
g's picture

Very nice! Germnay has no obligation to bail anyone out, nor should they.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:38 | 1392141 g
g's picture

.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:37 | 1392142 g
g's picture

.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:40 | 1392147 g
g's picture

.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:30 | 1392131 JR
JR's picture

National Public Radio’s Sylvia Poggioli reported today that Greek protesters by and large are not leftists but represent the middle class.  And their complaints are that austerity programs are taking away their homes, businesses and jobs.

In one interview, a 49-year-old man explained how the economy cost him the ownership of his coffee shop and home. 

Interestingly, a type of pantomime was being carried out on the streets of Athens with protesters donning animal masks and there were signs reflecting Orwell’s Animal Farm mantra: “All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others.”

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:32 | 1392140 twotraps
twotraps's picture

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:38 | 1392150 twotraps
twotraps's picture

JR, check out the book Paris 1919, all about the versailles treaty

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 13:21 | 1392311 JR
JR's picture

Thanks, twotraps, a very objective book on a subject where hundreds of other books carry various forms of extreme bias.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:38 | 1392152 twotraps
twotraps's picture

JR, check out the book Paris 1919, all about the versailles treaty

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:42 | 1392168 g
g's picture

ZH server acting up today eh, due to lots of traffic I presume, well high traffic speaks well of ZH!

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:45 | 1392174 treemagnet
treemagnet's picture

Give me one ping Wassily.....one ping only.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:48 | 1392190 Catullus
Catullus's picture

Der drivel.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:44 | 1392191 PaperBear
PaperBear's picture

Should all 5 periphery european countries require bailing out it, the final bill com to 4TN eurodollars.

Has the Eurozone got that amount of money ?

No, so SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP, Spiegel.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:54 | 1392217 AldoHux_IV
AldoHux_IV's picture

I'm surprised that there was still a media publication that was still objective-- thought everyone had sold out already.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 13:18 | 1392291 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

Just to let you all know, Henrik Müller is head wonk over at Manager Magazin.  That rag has been pro € since it´s inception.  If they thought all Germans should sell one kidney a piece in order to save the €, they would recommend doing so.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 13:14 | 1392292 Instant Wealth
Instant Wealth's picture

" ... in the oligarchic coup of 411 BCE, when the democracy was temporarily overthrown, the first act of the oligarchic revolutionaries was to “set up a Council of 400 "

" The Athenians brought an end to their democracy and instituted an oligarchy by, first, appointing ten “Commissioners” ( συγγραφε?ς ) who were charged with re-writing the constitution of Athens "

http://www.stoa.org/projects/demos/article_council_history?page=4&greekE...

EU Commissioner Barroso = Oligarch ?

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 15:22 | 1392797 BanjoDoug
BanjoDoug's picture

Regarding German Nationalism (i.e. nat'l socialists = Nazi) I am told the U.S. Confederate flag is the symbol of pro-Nazi supporters in Germany, where that previous flag is "still" illegal.   I am told it flies over many places thru out Germany, especially in the older eastern block regions, and all over Austria too.  The party has not gone away....

A push by the politicians & Askenazi Bankers to bail out the PIIGS will piss off the Krauts in a new way...  & they will seek to get even....  it won't end on a good note.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 16:28 | 1393039 TK7936
TK7936's picture

The German Nazi Partys are the aquivalent to Americas AlCIAda. There completely under state control through the Verfassungsschutz and nothing absolutly nothing is to be expected on that front. There made to scare the sheeple.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 15:43 | 1392872 walküre
walküre's picture

Let me get this straight.

The world prefers to drive German made cars over French made cars but because France is in deep shit financially over their open door lending policy to Greece, the Germans are going to feel the pinch?

The longer this drags on, the more Germans take notice and start to understand what it is their politicians are tyring to pull off.

Germans to the streets - again.

Then Germany can be blamed to start a war sometime down the road for the third time.

Just follow the money, damnit.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 16:06 | 1392954 Shylockracy
Shylockracy's picture

German presstitutes like Schmiergel.de never pass a chance to serve their globalist masters.

No treason is too vile, no defamation too abject, no disinfo too obvious for Burda, Bertelsmann, FAZ, Spiegel, Zeit, FTD, and Axel Springer AG.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 16:25 | 1393026 TK7936
TK7936's picture

"Well, that, and because Germany was the only country that benefited from the euro for the past decade"

 

Its so ignorant to say that. But the monetarist View equals ignorance.

alot of people have forgotten the 2. world country greece used to be..no they didnt benefit at all blabla. What a bunch of BS. The Euro gave everyone who didnt create values in exchange buying power. And a chance to make real economies. Germans had to serve that power with real values while induring real wage stagnation for almost 20 years. Der Spiegels Article is crap and ZeroHedge Interpertation just makes Dino Droppings out of Cow Droppings. It stinks like hell! But its all right on ove level, whatever Germans do, Europeans will ALWAYS blame them. The only real friends Germany ever had were the Americans, atleast before they were owned by private banks. We should just buy Wisconsin or something and move our shit there.

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 02:25 | 1393972 jackbooted gauleiter
jackbooted gauleiter's picture

Ich glaube dass Wisconsin ist bereits Teil von Deutschland

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 22:30 | 1393699 honestann
honestann's picture

Right.  Germany is "at fault" because they don't want to become permanent fodder for irresponsible criminal leaders and pampered lazy bums on federal payrolls throughout Europe.

Where do people get their brains?

At Walmart?

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 23:14 | 1393757 Mediocritas
Mediocritas's picture

The basic idea for Europe was that richer core nations would lend to weaker fringe nations, allowing the fringe to invest in developing domestic infrastructure, manufacturing, etc. With a stronger economy, fringe goods and services would then be consumed by the core in exchange for cash, allowing debt to be serviced. Only a fool believed that would actually happen.

Instead, what happened was that fringe members took the money and used it to immediately buy superior goods and services from core members, dooming themselves in the process. Germany benefited handsomely from this because, let's face it, German goods and services are excellent, coupled with the fact that German corporations were more aggressive, more efficient and more experienced. A quick visit to the European fringe and it's clear to see, German companies everywhere, displacing / destroying local rivals.

The fringe feels that they have lost, unjustly. They feel "invaded". Germans feel like they won, fair and square. Germany was the most dominant player on the field.

And this, ladies and gentleman, is why the EU is, and always was, doomed. European tribalism. There is no "union of Europe", there are a bunch of different cultures, different tribes, speaking different languages, suspicious of one another and taking care of their own ahead of "rivals".

If the United States of Europe is to happen, then Germany needs to "take one for the team". Protectionist policies should have been implemented from the very beginning to hamstring German corporations and enable the development of fringe business. It never happened, and the only solution now is that Germany gives up its hard-won gains to bailout the fringe.

Anyone who knows Europe knows that it will be a cold day in hell before that happens. Germany will continue to rape the fringe, the fringe will continue to take it, until someone starts shooting.

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 02:16 | 1393964 jackbooted gauleiter
jackbooted gauleiter's picture

It just goes to show that Margaret Thatcher was right when she said that the Euro should be a common currency, not a single currency. Maggie T proven right yet again.

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 03:18 | 1393998 parangwarrior
parangwarrior's picture

one of the most sobering thoughts i have ever read online:-

We've all been born into a brainwashed society, the elite have been deceiving us big time for generations and they have created a system that enslaves us and has been engineered to fail once people started to wake up.

The wars, the financial economy, the ever worsening natural disasters, all are connected. The Elite don't care about money, lol, they print it, it has nothing to do with corporatism that is just another mechanism of control, what I do know is that what they have withheld from us sounds so insane that to the brainwashed society they would laugh at you.

When the time comes it, when enough people awaken the sh*t will hit the fan and the governments only protection will be the sleeping policemen, when that fails then the Elite's enemy will be wiped out in a nuclear war, we are that enemy, the Elite rule the world & own all sides.

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 15:28 | 1396088 smiler03
smiler03's picture

I'm fairly new to ZH and admire the intelligence and foresight of its contributors but I seriously suggest that there are a few too many rascists on this thread.

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