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Spiegel Revisionism 101: "It Will Be Germany's Fault If Euro Fails"
Up until this point, Spiegel has been relatively objective in its coverage of the Eurozone implosion (unlike Handelsblatt, which we still await to apologize for losing all of its readers millions if not billions for urging them to invest in Greek bonds because it is their patriotic duty). That is until today. In an opinion piece, Henrik Muller writes that "if the Euro fails, Germany will be responsible" lamenting that it "may seem absurd that Berlin is perceived abroad as 'euro Nazis' rather than as a benevolent leader. But should the common currency fail, Berlin will be to blame."
The alternative, just inject billions more in taxpayer funds (and preferably common European taxpayers, which is why urges for a joint European Treasury are so loud) to preserve an artificial status quo which benefits Germany, whose standalone currency should be about 60% higher, while robbing the European periphery blind while it is still enmeshed in a mandatory monetary regime which only benefits Germany. The cry for continued kleptocratic cryptofascism that benefits only the very top is summarized by the following sentence: "The common fate of the Europeans is no longer the top priority. Instead we are juggling national interests." Muller's conclusion: "If the euro-zone breaks apart, it is Germany that will be blamed -- because it was the country that could have saved the euro but didn't do so out of short-sighted self-interest. The damage, should it come to that, will be much more than monetary." Well, that, and because it was the only country that benefited from the euro for the past decade in yet another attempt to redistribute wealth at the sovereign level. Yes, it has a strong economy, and that's great, but the premise of modern monetary economics is one that allows for natural cycles to offset strengths and weaknesses as defined all the way back by Ricardo. Germany should not be blamed for the inevitable dissolution of the euro but for forcing all of its far dumber peers to participate in this money moving scheme, covered in the guise of a cultural integration experiment, in the first place.
And lastly, the people's realization that they have been deceived for years, and subsequent retaliation against an autocratic monetary regime, is not something that will be blamed on any country or entity. It will be something that will be cherished, and if Germany is seen as the reason for the collapse of the Euro, it will be branded a savior, not a villain.... at least by the non-banking population of Europe.
If the Euro Fails, Germany Will Be Responsible
By Henrik Müller
Given that Germany is shouldering risk to the tune of hundreds of billions for a life-threatening euro crisis, it may seem absurd that Berlin is perceived abroad as 'euro Nazis' rather than as a benevolent leader. But should the common currency fail, Berlin will be to blame.
It is a surreal scenario. Gigantic risks. Staggering sums of money. The degree to which the political debate has become polarized is likewise unbelievable -- both among European Union member states and within those societies themselves.
In the Greece of today, the government has to be protected from its own people. In the Netherlands and Finland, right-wing populist parties have made huge gains on terrain normally held by large, centrist parties. In Germany, Chancellor Angela Merkel isn't even certain of a parliamentary majority when a second bailout package for Greece comes up for a vote.
It is the kind of escalation that would have been unthinkable only a few years ago.
Rescue efforts have been underway for three years now -- first the banks and then the countries. But instead of coming together in times of crisis, Europeans have become divided. And there is a lot at stake. A break-up of the European currency union has now become a realistic scenario. Indeed, the political climate has become so toxic that a collapse of the European Union and of the idea of European unity -- and the entire European postwar order -- also seems possible.
Governments across the Continent are currently working feverishly to prevent such a disaster. On Friday, French President Nicolas Sarkozy and German Chancellor Angela Merkel met in Berlin -- where they reached the smallest-possible compromise. And on Thursday and Friday of this week, European Union leaders will meet at an EU summit. There are still chances for the European project to succeed, but they are becoming increasingly limited -- as main actors in this drama have begun admitting in confidential discussions.
Germany Is Missing an Historic Opportunity
If the euro fails, the Germans will be seen in the end as having been the primary culprits. And rightfully so.
In 2009 and 2010, Germany suddenly found itself in the position of being akin to a European hegemony. It was the only large euro-zone member state that was economically healthy and had more competitive economic structures and less public debt than the others. Germany could have acted as a "benevolent hegemony" -- indeed should have. Similar to the United States after World War II, Germany should have been prepared to provide generous amounts of money very early on -- tied to the creation of new, more powerful European institutions, including a new European Union treaty. Merkel could have -- and should have -- led Europe towards a common future.
Instead, national politics in Germany became transfixed by state elections with leaders making populist claims that there was no money for feeble southern European countries. Rather than continuing the traditions established as far back as the times of former Chancellor Konrad Adenauer in the 1950s -- a period which saw European countries anchored ever more firmly in a European framework -- we are now returning to a balance-of-power approach. The common fate of the Europeans is no longer the top priority. Instead we are juggling national interests.
Or rather, what some consider to be their national interests. Just take the German government's wish that private creditors also be made to pay for part of the debt crisis. At the end of the day, it is little more than symbolism. Debt forgiveness wouldn't help Greece at all. On the contrary, it would remove Greece from the capital markets for many years to come and it would eliminate any possibility for the country to ensure its own credit for the foreseeable future.
Greek Bashing Is More Popular than Action
The German government also seems to care little that the European Central Bank is slipping into serious distress. Speculation is heating up, further exacerbating the crisis. Nevertheless, Berlin is still insisting on a haircut: as a matter of principle, but also because there are many in the government who would like to show the financial markets (and the Greeks) that they mean business.
Throughout the crisis, the German government has behaved as if we were still living in the 1990s, as if there were a serious alternative to today's currency club. And it has ignored the fact that our financial system is so tightly interwoven that if part of it fails, we could all fall. From the very start of the crisis, there was no other choice but to expand transfers within the euro zone. The same held true for a deepening of political union within the common currency area. Unfortunately, Greece bashing is more popular.
Now payback time has come. Germany is in the impossible situation of having ponied up hundreds of billions of euros but is nevertheless being pilloried. Some Greek newspapers refer to Germans as "euro Nazis," and not as a benevolent leading power. The fact that the situation has deteriorated so far does not speak well for statesmanship in Berlin -- and that is putting it mildly.
Instead of showing steadfast solidarity, the markets are testing the potential collapse of the euro. And that scenario is becoming increasingly likely -- not because anybody wants it to but because so many different players must come together to find a solution and it is quite possible they will not succeed in doing so.
If the euro-zone breaks apart, it is Germany that will be blamed -- because it was the country that could have saved the euro but didn't do so out of short-sighted self-interest. The damage, should it come to that, will be much more than monetary.
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Let them eat notgeld euros.
WWIII is just around the corner. Maybe that's why the chinese are duplicating whole european towns like Hallstatt.
You should be hung by your nostrils.
MSM should be hung by its whoring blow(-viating)/snot-spewing/distracting nostrils.
This is like a stupid action movie, when the bad guy holds a gun to the hostage's head, and says to the good guy, "If you don't do what I say, then the hostage gets shot, and it's going to be YOUR fault!"
The royal families of europe are already starting to flee. This is going to happen very soon.
It's no coincidence the nuclear reactors are starting to fail.
At the Paris Air Show, Boeing disclosed several 747-8 superjumbos have been bought by "secretive VIPs". Expect those planes to be loaded not only with the royal families, but with GOLD!
http://in.reuters.com/article/2011/06/22/idINIndia-57847520110622
And they be moving to China?
Moving in to Cheney's secret Wyoming underground survival compound, manned and guarded by Private Security cronys he made rich during Iraq
Paraguay?
Argentina
http://www.google.com/search?q=Willem-Alexander+argentina
Lichtenstein ?
Quite possibly, but given that only one of the PIIGS (the P) doesn't have a history of serious organised criminal violence, I would say that popular terrorist uprisings are more likely than WWIII.
That's years away though and would require the above mentioned Germany not to pull out of it's own free will once virtually everyone in the EU is bankrupt.
Talking of world wars, it seems rather a shame that 70 odd million died in WWII in the name of self determination. The European members of that statistic seem to have died for nothing.
That´s a shame, indeed. Just like native indians, not only they died for self determination(of others), they were also robbed of their land. How sad ....
Yet ignorant people here hoist Andrew Jackson up as an idol, wtf, that bastard was in charge of slauthering my anscestors. Today what he did would be called genocide and ethnic cleansing, all to clear the way for slave plantations working for the corporate machine. Same as it ever was I guess.
Andrew Jackson is a hero. The only man to ever have defeated the bankers. America's meteoric rise to power would never have been possible without his having "cleared the way" for civilization. It was later that the bankers returned along with their tax and wage slavery. You should thank him for the reservations. He/we were not obligated to provide them. Random unprovoked scalping and slaughtering of my ancestors, and you have the nerve to claim genocide.
You are a neo-nazi. You should leave zerohedge and take your one dimensional views to some kkk site.
Jackson was "good" for some things,anti-Fed Bank, and a fascist swine for others - murdering the very "indians" who helped him defeat the Brits.
If you believe might is right - well, then you and your ancestors have no particular claims to superiority - you are beneath principles, beneath civilized, conversational legitimacy.
war is a part of human nature, to deny that, is living in fantasy land. even the indians fought amongst themselves for resources. Its clan fighting clan at its basic.
oil has allowed the population to skyrocket without fighting for resources. Think about it could we feed all these people without oil,,,,, NO and not only but FUCK NO.
We all take a side for our own self preservation, Andrew Jackson was a great man and sought to protect his clan(America),
90% of all you fuckers out there would be dead and maybe including myself if there is no more oil. the difference is I and small few, would attribute death, to not being strong enough to survive.
you learn about Darwinsm in school but most of the fuctards on this planet don't live their life like they believe in Darwinsm. But then you ask most people do you believe in Darwinism?,,,, and 90% says YES that's some disconnect wouldn't you say
Real Politik, baby.
Grow up and learn how the world really works.
Definition of REALPOLITIK : politics based on practical and material factors rather than on theoretical or ethical objectivesGreat you see it this way. So you probably dont mind mexicans taking back the southern US.
Yeeee-haw. Real politik, baby.
neo-nazi ROFL. According your one-dimensional definition 90%+ of Americans born pre-1960 would be neo-nazis. Might-makes-right is nature's law. American colonists saw unclaimed land and took it. Fortunately you do not have the wherewithall to determine "conversational legitimacy". Damn that pesky American First Ammendment to the constitution of the American states. Jackson did not "murder" the indians, he sent them to Oklahoma, nor was he a fascist. You are the swine, and a symptom or active participant in the destruction of America as a nation.
Pre-1960 born americans will become minority from 2050 onwards. You know, the might-makes-right law of nature. So enjoy your constitution and ammendments while they last.
Are you demented or just plain stupid? Unprovoked? How about stealing their land and trying to exterminate their whole race/culture? Let´s just hope you´re under influence because if you wrote that with clear head Im pity for your worthless, miserable life.
Native Americans actually drew first blood. The ones who sided with the evil French deserved to die.
The Brits started the money for scalps.
Europeans are evil. Always have been. Always will be.
And if you didn't know, the reason the northeast US was essentially empty when the colonists arrived, it was because one tribe had just genocided another.
Almost as if it were meant to happen the way it did.
"The ones who sided with the evil French deserved to die."
Like american settlers in the War of Independence?
"Europeans are evil. Always have been. Always will be."
So the europeans are evil, but you, advocating genocide, are saint, I guess.
Now, let me ask you something. Arent you a bit confused in your life? I mean, I know it´s difficult to think without a brain, but then, perhaps, you should not even try. At least you wont get that nasty headache.
The land was mostly purchased. It was initially settled by small groups of immigrants. The injuns' immigration policy was slaughter. So, justice had to prevail.
Had the injuns just been able to get along without slaughtering and intertribal genocide, perhaps a better solution could have been worked out.
Yeah, this jungle law mentality is great when you´re on the stronger side. So let´s just hope there arent any aliens out there waiting to land on our planet.
Or that chinese and indians wont start looking for a land for their 1+ billion population, sometimes around 2050, when their economies are multiple time of the western ones ....
Stole what land? They were nomads. In addition you can thank the colonists for your meaningless existence and first world standard of living.
They were human beings, first and foremost. Now, Im curious how you gonna justify their near extermination, aka genocide.
I only need to thank God that I dont have to meet dements like you in real life. Just reading your idiocy is punishing enough.
Andrew Jackson should be posthumously impeached. He is the man who was responsible for the Hurricane Katrina disaster. He conquored New Orleans and took it away from the British after the war had finished. If he hadn't done this, New Orleans would have been a British enclave and the disaster none of Washington's business. He is to blame for all the embarassment that Bush and Co faced when the city was flattened.
your ancestors were savages. Evolution is like that. You should weep for neandarthal
WWII was not about self determination, it was about socialism.
It was about building the perfect society, and since the leaders of the main protagonists (Germany and Russia) were interested in society not individuals, they were willing to sacrifice millions of individuals in order to impose the society they preferred... (National Socialism, or Soviet Socialism).
The fact is... most of the population of Europe is made up of foreigners... and that is true whatever your nationality.
Neocon-Spiegel simply helps trying to break up the German government, cause they support old moneys peacekeeping internationalists. Spiegel supports Lipsky in this task, who demanded unlimited German support for Greece without any condition. Such a surrender would break up conservatives and liberal parties in Berlin. Thats what the neocon world warmongers try after paleoconservative Germany remained neutral in the Libya conflict. Read the guardian.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/jun/16/imf-forced-germany-to-gua...
The now-day Germans are just stupid. They still apologize for the WWII crimes they did not commit.
How stupid could Hitler be thinking that British imperial gangsters are their cousins? WOW. Instead of looking for peace with Brits, Hitler had to deal with them like American were dealing with Japanese, i.e., if nukes on civilian population did not do the job then American were ready to use massive chemical attack on again civilian population in violation of all treaties America was a signatory to.
No wonder, after all, America proudly implemented a genocide against the native America population. Just watch when shit hits the fan and the American economy collapse.
What are all you neo-nazis doing on zerohedge ?
Go play in the dirt - if you have access to any.
GFY idiot
Twisted logic.
It's not even logic. It's the flailing, erratic desperation of a death rattle.
Yep. Blame-the-victim mentality. Greeks fuck up, and Germans get the blame.
Europe has been a bunch of warring tribes long before the invention of Europe. Seems like we are headed that way again. Here it comes again.
Funny what you write. Your country wasnt even one century old and you were butchering each other like madmen. Short memory? More like, selective memory, I´d say?
And another civil war is brewing behind the scenes as we speak. Only this time it will be liberals vs. conservatives and I don't mean GOP vs. Democrats either since neither of those parties tend to represent what they are supposed to stand for.
Nah, you're right, it will be the retarded neo-nazis, xenophobic, racist, isolationist, self-righteous, provincial knucleheads against everybody else - and each other, for these morons surely hate everybody - and what are they doing on zerohedge?
Astute!
The nobles simply cannot think of any thing else to do except rule or dominate commoners. The justify it as "It's our duty. We deserve our privileges.".
Headed that way again? When did we stop? Just because you don't see the conflict it doesn't mean that it's not there.
IMO, Correct!
Only the uninvolved Nordics will come away criticism free. The German effort toward greater unity is noble but have they, once again, "bit off more than they can chew"?
Double post. Wrist slap for me.
Medea,
Ain't your fault. Twichey finger pad, no mouse? It's that #&*x&$% gotcha.
On a different machine, I found that "Disable rich-text" before the save and slowing down works
Medea,
Joke is on me. Repeat.
Der Spiegel is always looking for some sort of partisan statement to prove they are mavericks of truth. Every so often they fail badly...
This case is ridiculous. Of all European nations, German GDP growth between 1990 and 2010 comes in as the THIRD LAST. They have not been blood-sucking Europe, they have saved their way out of misery while the otheres plastered the streets with money they did not own. That's the difference.
During that period, "GDP growth" has meant "increased debt production."
One of those things that makes you go hmm...
Now that wouldn't have anything to do with them taking on the burden of bringing East Germany into the 20th century would it? I suspect if you take that self-inflicted factor out of the equation, Germany has done rather well out of their artificially low currency (Like China has) and captive Euro markets.
If only they'd sold all those lovely German vehicles to someone who could actually afford to pay for them though, instead of the Greeks and Irish. It looks like their mercantilist strategy is going to bite them in the ass now that the debts are falling due.
Q, RE: "Germany has done rather well out of their artificially low currency"
Is it your opinion that he EURO is artificially low?
"If only they'd sold all those lovely German vehicles to someone who could actually afford to pay for them though, instead of the Greeks and Irish"
I believe China is buying many more German autos than Greece and ireland - AND - China is also FINANCING the German autos that US citizens buy.
The Euro is (by some estimates) about 60% lower at this point than a German-only currency would be given the strength of their exports and surpluses. Tagging on all the deadweight periphery countries has seen to that.
Yes Germany has now focused more on exporting capital goods and vehicles to Asia since their captive Euro markets have gone belly-up. Problem is the captive markets haven't paid for most of what they bought from Germany yet. Have a look and the inter-country debt figures if you want.
Finally, yes, you are right. China will come to understand at some point that selling people things and then lending them the money to pay for them works splendidly, right up until you want the money back and find they can't pay. Oops.
AND the Germans only agreed to the Euro if those conditions would be kept: 1) no inflation, i.e. no excessive monetary expansion 2) NO FISCAL TRANSFERS, i.e. every Sovereign keeps it's own budget, it's own taxes, etc. Now all exporting countries are the target of a new "globalist transfer party" which says: you have to produce the item I want AND you have to pay for it, too...
Indeed they did. Article 125 of the Lisbon Treaty. However, as any good Eurosceptic would have been able to tell the Germans before they signed up, in Brussels rules and laws only mean what the Eurocrats want them to mean. Just because something is explicitly signed into law does not mean that it cannot be ignored later on in the interests of expediency.
Remind me: What happened when Germany totally failed to keep within the legal deficit limits set out in the 'Growth and Stability pact'? Nothing at all. In Brussels, laws are just bits of paper with ink on them.
That was fun! The shame! I cherished the moment!
OK, it was a failure, still, it was for a short time. And reunification was one of the main goals of the Federal Republic.
Which causes the question: what do you do when a sovereign is naughty? Brussels has laws which may or may not be applied by the member nations. It takes the -crat out of Eurocrat. :-)
I agree. Der Speigel has been highly critical of nations such as Greece, so it looks like this article is designed to counter that position (a bit like the UK Daily Telegraph writing a pro-Euro article, though that would never happen.) The key reason for lower GDP growth in Germany has been constrained borrowing by the state and by consumers, most obviously seen in the lack of housing bubble.
In some ways it is easy to be critical of the German banking system, particularly the idiots in the Landesbanks. On the one hand, Germany had high lending standards to domestic creditors, but on the other, were far too lenient lending to foreign institutions without questioning their lending standards.
However, the problem remains a credit problem, rather than a currency one. It is just that by surrendering sovereignty of the currency, it has removed the traditional mechanism by which the weaker nations, especially those with poor tax collecting records had, which was devaluation via inflation.
A drowning Human will do anything to save themselves from drowning, including pushing the lifeguard under the waves. Here comes "Der Speigel" to fault the lifeguard...
Die Bastarde!
Zionic Media Engaged
Errr wouldnt a weaker eur serve the germans even better?
What kind of fucktard bails out his dingbat neighbour so the selfsame dick can shit his lawn again?
"What kind of fucktard bails out his dingbat neighbour...?"
ANSWER: - the kind who seeks contagion; if one goes, more may, dropping all exit'ing economies to lower purchasing power - of BMWs, AUDIs, BENZs etc etc etc
Remember: LEVERAGE, PUMPING, BLOWING BUBBLES IS THE ONLY GAME IN TOWN - FOR ANY GLOBALIST MODEL - total interdependency means total pumping (of cedits and bailouts) - UNTILL THE END (this is where Jim Morrison's SCREAM sets in).
When all else fails, blame Germany....probably the only real producer of real goods in all of Europe.
I like sardines.
Good. Most of my Southern European relatives are sardine fishermen.
You've got that right.
Someone ought to carve a swastika on your fat, greasy, smelly, porcine butt.
French ERYX Misfire
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGf-sS4js5Y
You can also look up how badly the French have screwed up the joint defense systems the Brits were stupid enough to trust them on.
A looter's line if I ever heard one.
Germany's bit of sanity is to blame for the downfall of Europe...logic and sanity has LEFT the building!
'Short sighted self interest' in other words Germany didnt want to print to oblivion and go into massive debt to put a temporary band aid patch over an obvious failure.
Isn't this a fantastic attempt to reframe the discussion by that lying sack of shit writer?
So far I would have guessed bailing out Greece again would be the thing to do "out of short-sighted self-interest", while pushing them out or letting the Eurozone break apart actually the long term sustainable path...
Wesley Mooch couldn't have said it better himself!
it's completely true. it's merely a math problem for the big german banks and industrials. they will decide whether the GARGANTUAN benefits of the peripherals dragging the Euro lower, consequently their own trade advantages, is worth the price of bailing them out. right now it must be.
Whoever races down the hill into the dragons gaping maw first WINS!
thought it was Sarko pusing for another rescue!?
it's completely true. it's merely a math problem for the big german banks and industrials. they will decide whether the GARGANTUAN benefits of the peripherals dragging the Euro lower, consequently their own trade advantages, is worth the price of bailing them out. right now it must be.
as if there were a serious alternative to today's currency club
Oh. Well that's that, then. Good to know there's no alternative.
"ElErian's PIMCO has said Europe risks wasting money for nothing by pumping billions of dollars into the ailing economy.
"Nothing has been done to enhance growth," he said. "No single (Greek) indicator has shown strength. They are afraid a restructuring would hurt European banks.""
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8591262/Pimco-warns-G...
Well thats all it really comes down to, no bank wants to be the first to take the massive cornholing thats coming to them all eventually.
This article is full of leftist, fascist, fabian bullshit.
Be aware: spiegel has an agenda.
It's funny to see how they try to force some views again and again, only to be rebutted every time by majority of opposite comments.
Readers are not so dumb as they were in the past.
Like the FTD.
This F..tard is one the same path>
Chaotische Laiendarsteller spielen griechische TragödieLängst ist das Desaster Athens ein europäisches geworden. Die Krise deckt schonungslos auf, woran die EU krankt: Alle reden von der Bedeutung des gemeinsamen Hauses Europa, denken aber nur an die eigenen vier Wände. Leider auch in Deutschland. von Thomas Schmoll
http://www.ftd.de/politik/europa/:europaeische-krise-chaotische-laiendar...
Sorry only in german.
What did the others get? Well, too low interest rates, esp for the periphery, for a decade which made possible the rampant housing bubbles all over Europe. Not to mention the accumulation of other private sector debt. Some of those bubbles have already burst like in Ireland and Spain but there are many waiting to do so. Look at France, Netherlands, Finland... It sure was fun for 10 years but like every ponzi schemes, the ones still standing will collapse. Euro experiment has been and is an epic failure, political utopia without economic grounds. The kleptocratic elites of Europe succeeded to keep the sheeple blinded and happy by providing too cheap credit for everybody but the house is already burning and fire department was shut down because of austerity. I say let it burn.
And in other news we get the confirmation that Asians really are the new Germans when it comes to investing in synthetic cdo's. Good luck with that.
06-22 11:22: EFSF says Asia bought around half of the new EUR 3bln 5-year bond issueThe assertion that the critics are calling them a form of "Nazis" is a sure sign of collective insecurity.
A Nazi comparison would be a cheap shot.
On the other hand the idea of Franco/German continental economic domination rings true does it not?
That's been a blatantly obvious bit of Franco-German policy at least since the sixties. (As long as I can remember.) The EU and all its predecessors have been carefully structured (Remember the Inner 6 and the Outer 7?) so that France and Germany together could ram through anything they wanted.
"The assertion that the critics are calling them a form of "Nazis" is a sure sign of collective insecurity."
Yea, my bullshit detector went off after reading that. For people that live outside the propaganda bubble of Faux News, that word (and a number of other words) actually mean something.
In hard times, people look for inspirational leaders. You're not going to find any true leaders among the financial oligarchy, but it's not a stretch to imagine leaders coming from within the core of the EU.
As a big fan of your works: not for "continental" Europeans. Franco/German cooperation crosses the latin/germanic cultural gap and as long as the smaller countries in between get their say the compromise results are sound enough for most people of the Eurozone, particularly in the South with their distrust of their own politicians... It's much scarier when France and the UK agree on something.
france and britian agree, has that ever happened?
Well, it happens from time to time. And it's usually quite spectacular. See the carving up of the Middle East, the Egyptian intervention against Nasser's nationalization of the Suez Canal (the US called them back) and this year the joint intervention in Tripolitania, just to name a few.
Nothing wrong with failing, as long as you learn something from it and try not to fail the same way again.
What's worse (and I see it in government/bureaucracy, where I work, all the time) is when you know you've failed and yet you push on because you'd rather not deal with the consequences of failure. This completely stifles innovation.
Bullshit.
Here is Germany´s a.k.a. Deutsche Bank´s plan:
- Use taxpayer money to buy time for the banks.
- Delay all necessary action until banks reduced their exposure to Greece to acceptable levels by selling them to careless clients, the ecb and stupid pension funds
- Then introduce haircuts for the bondholders.
In essence, socialize the losses, privatize the gains.
Der Spiegel is just an ignorant keynesian trash paper. They have no idea about economics.
It's not enough to give more money.
This money also has to be not squandered, it has to be invested in projects that have a long lasting value and create actual capital and surpluses !
Plastering the countryside with one unfinished hotel and airport next to the other does not !
And that's the crux here.
One can pour as much money as one wants into a bottomless pit of unneeded construction and tax-evasion,
but it will NEVER be enough.
First you need to stop the leakage before your pour more water (read: liquidity) into the broken jug.
But tell this to a fat-bellied Eurocrat central planner in far away Brussels.
He lives in a bubble of taxpayer-funded splendor and spendthrift.
And that's why centrally controlled regimes always fail due to misallocation of capital and the growth of corruption, decadency, megalomania and bad decision making at the center.
Why do they always make the same historic mistakes again ?
The other conclusion is:
It is intended, to impoverish the masses and to create the NEW WORLD ORDER.
Nah, that's just a crazy conspiracy theory.
Oh wait:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLIYZ1HubMY
By definition paying greek pensions is to squander the money.
It's consumption that had hasnt been earned through production.
.
A furious discussion going on since yesterday and about 98 percent of "Spiegel online" forum participants are screaming "BULLSHIT" now. Sorry, Henryk Müller, seems like this sort of propaganda isn´t working anymore. You can´t fool all of the people all of the time.
spiegel = collectivism agenda
The only sense to read it online is comments section - it's always good to know what is the common understanding on specific subject.
spiegel = collectivism agenda
The only sense to read it online is comments section - it's always good to know what is the common understanding on specific subject.
spiegel = collectivism agenda
The only sense to read it online is comments section - it's always good to know what is the common understanding on specific subject.
spiegel = collectivism agenda
The only sense to read it online is comments section - it's always good to know what is the common understanding on specific subject.
Give me a break. In large part the Greeks did this to themselve. No one forced them to spend beyond their means. They fudged the books to get into the euro club. The the retirement age is rediculously low, do they even work a whole workday?, no one pays taxes, and unions have helped to squander the nations wealth. What is ironic is that the Greek people wholeheartedly and knowingly went along with the party, until as is evident now, that its ending. No more free handouts for the Greek people, oh no.
Of course the banking system is corrupt along with the politicians. Goldman was a big facilitator of Greece's cooked books. The banks should never have received bailout, while those putting up the money only have their selfish interests in mind. The euro zone is fucked. For cying out loud let Greece default and be done with it.
Greece as much as the creditor nations need to accept responsibility for their actions. To scape goat Germany is a bunch of bullshit. They both have some fault in this game. But in the end you must be responsible for your own actions, and the responsibility for Greece lies on Greece's shoulders.
This whole thing is fucking ludicrous, just as the situation in the US is and the rest of the world, a broken fucking system beyond repair.
If I were a german you could blame me all you want, but i will not work until 65 to support greeks retiring at 55.
Kick the greeks out now.
Ummm, in case you haven't noticed, they're not letting the Greeks leave.
yeah breaking up is hard to do.
The majority of Greeks don't want to leave either, but that will change.
Your comment, accusing an entire nation of being lazy and corrupt, is the thing that's ludicrous and beyond repair.
Blame Germany. Right. As if they ever really wanted an alien financial bureaucracy standing on their necks. This all falls back on classic Marxists, globalists, and international jewry. Another way of saying the same thing three times.
A lesser known fact of equal importance: Germany was responsible for the demise of the 8 Track Tape player....the evil bastards.
Ritschl: In the 20th century, Germany started two world wars, the second of which was conducted as a war of annihilation and extermination, and subsequently its enemies waived its reparations payments completely or to a considerable extent. No one in Greece has forgotten that Germany owes its economic prosperity to the grace of other nations.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: What do you mean by that?
Ritschl: The Greeks are very well aware of the antagonistic articles in the German media. If the mood in the country turns, old claims for reparations could be raised, from other European nations as well. And if Germany ever had to honor them, we would all be taken the cleaners. Compared with that, we can be grateful that Greece is being indulgently reorganized at our expense. If we follow public opinion here with its cheap propaganda and not wanting to pay, then eventually the old bills will be presented again.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Looking at history, what would be the best solution for Greece -- and for Germany?
Ritschl: The German bankruptcies in the last century show that the sensible thing to do now would be to have a real reduction of the debt. Anyone who has lent money to Greece would then have to give up a considerable part of what they were owed. Some banks would not be able to cope with that, so there would have to be new aid programs. For Germany, this could be expensive, but we will have to pay either way. At least Greece would then have the chance to start over.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,769703,00.html
Wow..... Continue to pay for all of Europe with your hardwork, or.... You're a Nazi!!! Scumbag zionists.
How "strong" can Germany's economy be if it relies on an export driven market that feeds overindebted consumerism elsewhere at the personal/regional/national level? I know they're amazing engineers, they're creative, social paradise and all that - but they're still a player in the same stupid game tied together with trillions in derivatives. I've never understood that - somebody educate me.
Simple -they lost the war and the winner defnes the gameboard. Germany correctly moved on and became good players, that doesnt mean they can redefine the game. That would be up to the Americans this time.
It's pretty clear this author looks thru a more liberal lens than I do.... This is analogous to telling us Oklahomans & Texans that it's out fault that California can't get & keep their fiscal house together AND it's out fault if we don't want to loan them more money (that we'll never get repaid). And using the term Okie-nazi or Tex-nazi is irresponsible.... THIS WILL put the German National Socialists in power quicker than anything else.
Great point, seems this happend before.
It's pretty clear this author looks thru a more liberal lens than I do.... This is analogous to telling us Oklahomans & Texans that it's out fault that California can't get & keep their fiscal house together AND it's out fault if we don't want to loan them more money (that we'll never get repaid). And using the term Okie-nazi or Tex-nazi is irresponsible.... THIS WILL put the German National Socialists in power quicker than anything else.
A group of American investors have filed several lawsuits to pressure Germany to honor bonds issued by the Weimar Republic. Hitler banned repayment of the bonds and Berlin says a deadline for registering the bonds passed decades ago. Should Germany lose, it could cost the country billions.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,716244,00.html
In some ways the current Greek episode is like Versailles reparations all over again for the German people, reparations that caused the economic destruction of Germany.
This time, with the French government owning major portions of the two banks Societe Generale and Credit Agricole (CA), the French need to have Greece bailed out to save their national interests in the banks. IOW, it’s Germany again that needs to come up with the money to pay France.
Of Versailles, Francisco Nitti, the prime minister of Italy, wrote:”The cost of the war of all participants totaled three times the value of all property in Germany. She was ordered to pay an impossible 1.7 billion marks a year (in foreign exchange) for 59 years, until 1988.
The greed cemented into the Treaty of Versailles led to Germany’s 1923 hyperinflation and forced impoverishment that led, ultimately, to WWII.
Then, in a Reparations Agreement between Israel and West Germany signed on September 10, 1952, “reparations would become a decisive part of Israel's income, comprising as high as 87.5% of the state income in 1956,” according to Wikipedia.
Later, “on behalf of US citizens, the US Foreign Claims Settlement Commission reached agreements with the German government in 1998 and 1999 to compensate Holocaust victims who immigrated to the US after the war…”
“In 2009, Israeli Finance Minister Yuval Steinitz announced that he will demand a further 450 million to 1 billion Euros in reparations from Germany on behalf of some 30,000 Israeli forced labor survivors. Israel has also sought large discounts on the purchase of two German-built MEKO warships.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reparations_Agreement_between_Israel_and_West_Germany
In an interesting aside, STUDYBLOG shows that the van of greed and rape of Greece, led by the IMF/Fed, continues at full speed. Writes SB:
“If the bail-out were designed to help Greece get out of debt, then France and Germany would not have insisted on future mulit-billion military contracts. As Daniel Cohn-Bendit, the MEP and leader of the Green group in the European Parliament explained: ‘In the past three months we have forced Greece to confirm several billion dollars in arms contracts. French frigates that the Greeks will have to buy for 2.5 billion euros. Helicopters, planes, German submarines.’”
http://sturdyblog.wordpress.com/2011/06/18/democracy-vs-mythology-the-battle-in-syntagma-square/
--In some ways the current Greek episode is like Versailles reparations all over again for the German people, reparations that caused the economic destruction of Germany.
Well, yes, but everyone was suddenly employed all over the world, now weren't they?
Wasn´t that Francois Mitterand, who giggled "Versailles without shooting" in a conversation with Helmut Kohl ?
NOT many people noticed at the time, but World War I ended this year [2010]. Well, in a sense it did: on Oct. 3, Germany finally paid off the interest on bonds that had been taken out by the shaky Weimar government in an effort to pay the war reparations imposed by the Treaty of Versailles.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/26/opinion/26macmillan.html?pagewanted=all
He is correct that Germany will be blamed, but in my view they should hold their heads high because of it. It isn't something to be ashamed of to stand up to banker tyranny/ facism. In fact germany standing up to facism is great.
Just slap a QR code onto the Euro. LOL
Euro currency manipulation just got a bit easier
Is the author of this op-ed piece the Henrik Muller who is Director Finance & Administration bei DILAS Diodenlaser GmbH?
If not, who is he?
"If the euro-zone breaks apart, it is Germany that will be blamed -- because it was the country that could have saved the euro but didn't do so out of short-sighted self-interest."
If the euro-zone breaks apart, it is Germany that will be praised -- because it was the country that freed the euro-banker's slaves out of long-sighted self-interest.
There, it's fixed.
Very nice! Germnay has no obligation to bail anyone out, nor should they.
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National Public Radio’s Sylvia Poggioli reported today that Greek protesters by and large are not leftists but represent the middle class. And their complaints are that austerity programs are taking away their homes, businesses and jobs.
In one interview, a 49-year-old man explained how the economy cost him the ownership of his coffee shop and home.
Interestingly, a type of pantomime was being carried out on the streets of Athens with protesters donning animal masks and there were signs reflecting Orwell’s Animal Farm mantra: “All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others.”
JR, check out the book Paris 1919, all about the versailles treaty
Thanks, twotraps, a very objective book on a subject where hundreds of other books carry various forms of extreme bias.
JR, check out the book Paris 1919, all about the versailles treaty
ZH server acting up today eh, due to lots of traffic I presume, well high traffic speaks well of ZH!
Give me one ping Wassily.....one ping only.
Der drivel.
Should all 5 periphery european countries require bailing out it, the final bill com to 4TN eurodollars.
Has the Eurozone got that amount of money ?
No, so SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP, Spiegel.
I'm surprised that there was still a media publication that was still objective-- thought everyone had sold out already.
Just to let you all know, Henrik Müller is head wonk over at Manager Magazin. That rag has been pro € since it´s inception. If they thought all Germans should sell one kidney a piece in order to save the €, they would recommend doing so.
" ... in the oligarchic coup of 411 BCE, when the democracy was temporarily overthrown, the first act of the oligarchic revolutionaries was to “set up a Council of 400 "
" The Athenians brought an end to their democracy and instituted an oligarchy by, first, appointing ten “Commissioners” ( συγγραφε?ς ) who were charged with re-writing the constitution of Athens "
http://www.stoa.org/projects/demos/article_council_history?page=4&greekE...
EU Commissioner Barroso = Oligarch ?
Regarding German Nationalism (i.e. nat'l socialists = Nazi) I am told the U.S. Confederate flag is the symbol of pro-Nazi supporters in Germany, where that previous flag is "still" illegal. I am told it flies over many places thru out Germany, especially in the older eastern block regions, and all over Austria too. The party has not gone away....
A push by the politicians & Askenazi Bankers to bail out the PIIGS will piss off the Krauts in a new way... & they will seek to get even.... it won't end on a good note.
The German Nazi Partys are the aquivalent to Americas AlCIAda. There completely under state control through the Verfassungsschutz and nothing absolutly nothing is to be expected on that front. There made to scare the sheeple.
Let me get this straight.
The world prefers to drive German made cars over French made cars but because France is in deep shit financially over their open door lending policy to Greece, the Germans are going to feel the pinch?
The longer this drags on, the more Germans take notice and start to understand what it is their politicians are tyring to pull off.
Germans to the streets - again.
Then Germany can be blamed to start a war sometime down the road for the third time.
Just follow the money, damnit.
German presstitutes like Schmiergel.de never pass a chance to serve their globalist masters.
No treason is too vile, no defamation too abject, no disinfo too obvious for Burda, Bertelsmann, FAZ, Spiegel, Zeit, FTD, and Axel Springer AG.
"Well, that, and because Germany was the only country that benefited from the euro for the past decade"
Its so ignorant to say that. But the monetarist View equals ignorance.
alot of people have forgotten the 2. world country greece used to be..no they didnt benefit at all blabla. What a bunch of BS. The Euro gave everyone who didnt create values in exchange buying power. And a chance to make real economies. Germans had to serve that power with real values while induring real wage stagnation for almost 20 years. Der Spiegels Article is crap and ZeroHedge Interpertation just makes Dino Droppings out of Cow Droppings. It stinks like hell! But its all right on ove level, whatever Germans do, Europeans will ALWAYS blame them. The only real friends Germany ever had were the Americans, atleast before they were owned by private banks. We should just buy Wisconsin or something and move our shit there.
Ich glaube dass Wisconsin ist bereits Teil von Deutschland
Right. Germany is "at fault" because they don't want to become permanent fodder for irresponsible criminal leaders and pampered lazy bums on federal payrolls throughout Europe.
Where do people get their brains?
At Walmart?
The basic idea for Europe was that richer core nations would lend to weaker fringe nations, allowing the fringe to invest in developing domestic infrastructure, manufacturing, etc. With a stronger economy, fringe goods and services would then be consumed by the core in exchange for cash, allowing debt to be serviced. Only a fool believed that would actually happen.
Instead, what happened was that fringe members took the money and used it to immediately buy superior goods and services from core members, dooming themselves in the process. Germany benefited handsomely from this because, let's face it, German goods and services are excellent, coupled with the fact that German corporations were more aggressive, more efficient and more experienced. A quick visit to the European fringe and it's clear to see, German companies everywhere, displacing / destroying local rivals.
The fringe feels that they have lost, unjustly. They feel "invaded". Germans feel like they won, fair and square. Germany was the most dominant player on the field.
And this, ladies and gentleman, is why the EU is, and always was, doomed. European tribalism. There is no "union of Europe", there are a bunch of different cultures, different tribes, speaking different languages, suspicious of one another and taking care of their own ahead of "rivals".
If the United States of Europe is to happen, then Germany needs to "take one for the team". Protectionist policies should have been implemented from the very beginning to hamstring German corporations and enable the development of fringe business. It never happened, and the only solution now is that Germany gives up its hard-won gains to bailout the fringe.
Anyone who knows Europe knows that it will be a cold day in hell before that happens. Germany will continue to rape the fringe, the fringe will continue to take it, until someone starts shooting.
It just goes to show that Margaret Thatcher was right when she said that the Euro should be a common currency, not a single currency. Maggie T proven right yet again.
one of the most sobering thoughts i have ever read online:-
We've all been born into a brainwashed society, the elite have been deceiving us big time for generations and they have created a system that enslaves us and has been engineered to fail once people started to wake up.
The wars, the financial economy, the ever worsening natural disasters, all are connected. The Elite don't care about money, lol, they print it, it has nothing to do with corporatism that is just another mechanism of control, what I do know is that what they have withheld from us sounds so insane that to the brainwashed society they would laugh at you.
When the time comes it, when enough people awaken the sh*t will hit the fan and the governments only protection will be the sleeping policemen, when that fails then the Elite's enemy will be wiped out in a nuclear war, we are that enemy, the Elite rule the world & own all sides.
I'm fairly new to ZH and admire the intelligence and foresight of its contributors but I seriously suggest that there are a few too many rascists on this thread.