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Sprott Asset Management Adds More Gold To PHYS

Tyler Durden's picture


Update: correction to the prior post due to a link up to an old regulatory release. PHYS is indeed buying more gold, however the actual amount is undisclosed as per the release.

Sprott Physical Gold Trust
(the "Trust") (TSX: PHY.U)(NYSE: PHYS), a trust created to invest and
hold substantially all of its assets in physical gold bullion and
managed by Sprott Asset Management LP, announced today that
it has launched a follow-on offering (the "Offering") of transferable,
redeemable units of the Trust ("Units").

The Trust will use the net proceeds of this Offering to acquire physical
gold bullion in accordance with the Trust's objective and subject to
the Trust's investment and operating restrictions described in the
prospectus related to this Offering. Under the trust agreement governing
the Trust, the net proceeds of the Offering per unit must be not less
than 100% of the most recently calculated net asset value per Unit of
the Trust prior to, or upon determination of, pricing of the offering.

The Units are listed on the NYSE Arca and the Toronto Stock Exchange under the symbols "PHYS" and "PHY.U", respectively. The Offering will be made simultaneously in the United States and Canada by Morgan Stanley and RBC Capital Markets.

One look at the premium to NAV shows why the sale makes sense: the difference between the NAV and the price is the highest since the March highs, despite paper gold trading at all time records.



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Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:12 | 1457600 way-out-west
way-out-west's picture

lead investors? like as in: Pb (#82) Must be a heavy offering.


Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:14 | 1457607 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Grrr...was coming back for that very point...

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:32 | 1457674 Libertarians fo...
Libertarians for Prosperity's picture

According to that chart, it appears that paper gold and physical gold have NOT decoupled, at all - not even close.

If anything, it is clear that paper gold consistently trades for a premium over physical.

So... two things:

The doomer goons who tell you that paper and physical have decoupled are FULL OF SHIT.

And the same doomer goons who tell you that physical is worth more than the paper are also FULL OF SHIT.  

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:34 | 1457687 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

You take the paper.

I´ll take the physical.

We´re good!

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 20:14 | 1458042 Hacked Economy
Hacked Economy's picture

I was perusing eBay last night to see if I could cherry-pick some good below-spot coin purchases (as I often do from inexperienced private sellers), and the auction ending prices for SAEs are still about USD$10 above silver spot.  The real-world premium for SAEs through eBay sales was only about $3-$4 a few months ago.  Even the "low end" public market of eBay seems to understand that physical is worth more than the paper price.

I'm going to try to load up on some more over the next week before the QE3 train leaves the station to Neverland (which may be soon).

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 20:25 | 1458061 optionsoptions
optionsoptions's picture

Do you or anyone else know why people pay so much over spot on Ebay? It just reeks of stupidity. Why would people do that when you can get SAEs from reputable coin shops for less than $4 over spot.

I honestly don't give any weight to Ebay prices. It just seems like the same type of idiots that buy $5 gallons of milk from a gas station when the grocery store literally right next to it is selling it for $3.25

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 21:38 | 1458213 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Because most online dealers charge a base fee for shipping one can buy from the same ebay seller one coin or more and still come out cheaper.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 22:03 | 1458256 SilverDosed
SilverDosed's picture

Can't forget Ebay bucks and all the other weird incentive programs that allow you to earn points and percentages that can only be redeemed on ebay. Free silver for people that do a lot of business on ebay I hear.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 21:47 | 1458219 V in PA
V in PA's picture

I bid as many as  I can at 5% below melt (Including shippping). Might only win 1 out of 100 but it's still a WIN!

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 22:55 | 1458339 Hacked Economy
Hacked Economy's picture

Yep...that's what I do, too.  I carefully choose my targets (sellers and/or specific listings), and then bid at a certain percentage below melt as well.  I only win about a third of the listings, but my end result is at least 5% below spot value, including shipping.  Not too shabby.

The most fun is "sniping" at the very last second and taking someone else's prize right from their hands.  HA!

This only works for certain classes of coins...although every great once in a while, I score an SAE or two at spot.  Not a huge deal that will tilt the earth off its axis, but every little addition of silver I can trade my FRNs for is another step in the right direction.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 21:48 | 1458222 Libertarians fo...
Libertarians for Prosperity's picture

They pay the huge premiums for one reason: they are gullible idiots who are given bad information by propaganda whores.  

The same doomer goons who spread the disinformation about physical/paper decoupling and how paper is about to collapse are the same morons who tell others that "price doesn't matter." 

Pumped full of doomer propaganda, the "beans, bullets, and bullion" lemmings go on eBay and pay full-retard prices believing that the only thing that matters is availability, not price. 


Thu, 07/14/2011 - 21:56 | 1458238 prole
prole's picture

If you want to see a retard.....Look in the mirror.

Zero people on this site are buying what you are peddling.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 22:41 | 1458308 tmosley
tmosley's picture

He knows that quite well, so he changes user names every ten weeks or so.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 23:02 | 1458348 Hacked Economy
Hacked Economy's picture

@ Libertarian,

Okay, I hear then "decouple" yourself for a moment from that premise (the doom-and-gloom theory) and consider it an investment, then.

I personally would never pay $10 over spot, but you can find SAEs for about $5 over spot right now on eBay (I just bought a couple more a few minutes ago, actually).  Under normal circumstances, this wouldn't be a solid investment strategy.

But when you consider the strong possibility of QE3 looming on the horizon and spot quickly rising above the price you just paid...THEN it makes sense, right?  That's what some of us are doing...investing.

I buy and hold, in case of an economic meltdown.  Even if we theorize that there will be no true hyperinflation, but at least a few years of instability as the world goes through its throes and changes...the printing of QE3 and the uncertainty of fiat currencies will cause PMs to increase anyhow, even if at slower "non-hyperinflation" rates.

If you bought something at $40 today and could turn around (in a pinch, if you had to) for $60 next month, wouldn't you invest in it?  Instead of calling those that DO idiots?

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 10:03 | 1459149 Are you kidding
Are you kidding's picture

Because MOST people...are stupid and lazy!

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 23:03 | 1458349 ezcearhoc
ezcearhoc's picture

Ebay prices are very complicated. You must understand slick dealing on Ebay for the premium to make sense.

In 2008 I was Ebay-buying all the gold I could afford, and even more, at Ebay prices 25% over spot. At the time Microsoft's Bing Cashback program was giving up to a 35% cash rebate on each Ebay "Buy It Now" auction purchase. (the promo's been dead since last summer. look it up, here's a graph of the different cash rebate rates they were giving at different dates in 2008 ), meaning that I was buying gold at 10% under spot. That type of behavior was responsible for a lot of Ebay inflation at the time. To the ignorant observer, buyers like me were making stupid purchases, because the observer wouldn't know that the buyers were actually buying well below spot. Microsoft was funding the difference as an ill-conceived promotion for their Bing search engine. I've heard that MS lost $hundreds of millions on that program.

Since you're talking about silver, consider the 20% VAT in England. If an Englishman goes to his local shop to buy silver, he pays the shop's premium + 20% VAT. If an Englishman buys silver from an American seller on Ebay, he pays 0% VAT. Paying a 17% premium on Ebay, plus shipping, is still significantly cheaper than he can get silver at a local shop. So a roll of twenty SAEs for even as high as $900 (after shipping) on Ebay is $71 cheaper than his local dealer charging only a 6% premium ($38.19*20[coins]*1.06*1.20 [that last one is for 20% VAT] = $971.55). Paying a large Ebay premium is the only semi-reasonable option those people have.

Many local dealers in the USA charge sales tax (they ALL DO if they're supposed to, right? ;-) ). Currently Ebay is rebating 2-4% for a lot of people through Ebay bucks. Certain places, like Chicago, have local+state sales taxes up to 16%. In Texas the sales tax can go up to 14.5%, depending on the locality. That's on top of the shop's premium, of course. Depending on your state sales tax, this makes Ebay up to [4% Ebaybucks + up to 16% state/local sales tax] 20% discounted compared to going to a local dealer and paying cash, *if* your dealer is charging sales tax like he should.

So for many people with shitty local/state taxes, or for the poor people suffering VAT, paying huge silver premiums on Ebay is still the cheapest route to go.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 23:24 | 1458387 optionsoptions
optionsoptions's picture

Awesome answers guys. Appreciate the knowledge on the rebates and the effect they have on those significant premiums.

I just wish Obama could read this last reply. Taxes really do kill jobs!

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:34 | 1457691 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

We will sort that out tomorrow at 5PM Eastern courtesy of Frank and Dodd.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:38 | 1457701 Confucious 222
Confucious 222's picture

So who has been making this so-called argument about gold?

It is SILVER if anything that has the significant premium in physical over paper.

Sorry to chill your rant 



Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:45 | 1457712 akak
akak's picture

Yes, promises to deliver a physical asset are ALWAYS worth more than the physical asset itself.  In the Bizarro World of pro-bankster shills such as yourself, that is.

You must really be butthurt, WilliamtheBastard/TexasGunslinger/18OtherTrollAliases, that your former REAL libertarian, pro-gold nemesis, tmosley, does not spend much time on these boards any more. Whatever is a disingenuous, malicious troll to do?

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 18:05 | 1457748 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

"Normal" would be that you pay a small premium so that a very trustworthy bank takes care nobody steals your gold!

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 18:15 | 1457777 akak
akak's picture

"Normal" would be that you pay a small premium so that a very trustworthy bank takes care nobody steals your gold!

And just where, pray tell, can anyone find such an institution today?

Even if a "very trustworthy bank" were to exist today, how "trustworthy" could it be when the complete banking system, not to mention the financial and monetary systems backing that banking system up, are all equally threatened with collapse?

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 18:29 | 1457805 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Correct. What he instead should have said is: (Paper) trust should trade at a premium, IF the issuer is someone whom people trust strongly. On the other hand, physical should trade at a premium, if most issuers are not considered trustworthy by many.

Things get schizophrenetic, when you consider a scenario, where the buyers of (paper) trusts, and the buyers of physical, are very different people.... to the point, that one of the two camps doesn't even buy from the popular exchanges anymore. THIS is where decoupling happens..... and i may add: a decoupling so hard, that in fact both can trade at the same price, but for completely "decoupled" reasons!

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 19:22 | 1457945 El Oregonian
El Oregonian's picture

Absolutely, "decoupled" like in a bad marriage...

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 18:45 | 1457855 BrianOFlanagan
BrianOFlanagan's picture

actually, paper should trade at a premium to physical.  Paper offers lower bid/ask spread, better liquidity, leverage and financing, lower security risk, no storage issues.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 18:55 | 1457884 Vic Vinegar
Vic Vinegar's picture

Now that's not too incendiary a statement now is it?

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 19:11 | 1457914 eisley79
eisley79's picture

its the truth, so of course not, he just forget one thing


"if its backed by the real thing."


otherwise refer to Dumb & Dumber, and the Lambo IOU.......YOU might want to hold on to THAT one

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 19:12 | 1457915 BrianOFlanagan
BrianOFlanagan's picture

perhaps, but seriously.  With physical you have a wide bid/ask, low liquidity, you have to pay 100% cash to buy it and you have to figure out how to store it where it won't get stolen.  What's so great about that?

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 19:21 | 1457941 bakken
bakken's picture

Paper,  Thumbs Up! 

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 19:45 | 1457976 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Shut the fuck up! You've been repeating this argument across multiple threads, over and over, completely ignoring scenarios of "needs", where that "advantage" is irrelevant, yet the disadvantages matter.

Just fuck the fuck up, sockpuppet. Most PM buyers around here DO NOT TRADE, BUT ONLY CARE ABOUT PHYSICAL DELIVERY! What's the stock on the comex again, relative to outstanding "non-trusts"? There goes your "won't get stolen" - it fucking doesn't even exist! You're "trading" illusions. That can be profitable if you never expect delivery, but when you expect delivery, traditional paper trusts (those not fully allocated) are the most stupid thing one could do.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 20:01 | 1458010 Rynak
Rynak's picture

To the braindead junkers: A special FUCK YOU for you too.

Here's why: You're junking a post, simply because it is swearing towards someone who:

- Has in past threads constantly repeated his argument.

- Has continued to do so, when he was confronted with the fact, that bid/ask lag is irrelevant, if you're investing longterm, instead of being a daytrader. His only "argument" against this, has been, that this is just paranoid doomsayer talk. Same for mentioning that those popular ETFs are backed less than 25% by the real thing, and that this may in the longterm mean, that the "issuer" will default on his obligations..... also just paranoid tinfoil hat doomsayer talk.

- Is mainly commenting in PM-related threads, and offers no variation on his argument


Phrased another way: You're safeguarding a sophistic troll. Be proud of your achievement, you piece of shit!

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 20:40 | 1458086 BrianOFlanagan
BrianOFlanagan's picture

The bid/ask is highly relevant.  What if you for some reason have to sell?  With a paper contract or ETF you can sell at a minute's notice at a miniscule spread, rather than dragging all your metal down to the dealer at a 5-10% spread.  

ETFs are backed by less than 25%, how so?


Thu, 07/14/2011 - 20:47 | 1458092 Rynak
Rynak's picture

If i have to sell, i just sell to anyone who is willing to buy, regardless of what current rules are regarding exchanges.

In current circumstances, i can sell in a matter of hours, but not in a matter of seconds...... no problem at all for longterm investment, but a problem for daytraders. (this isn't theoretical. I checked with my favorite local dealers, and all of them say, that right now i can just walk in, and sell at spotprice)

What changed regarding longterm investment considerations? Nothing.

As for how ETFs are backed less than 25% (in the case of silver).... it's quite simple: Check the number of issued trusts at full spotprice. Then check inventories of the exchanges, as well as inventories of exchanges from where issuers could buy.

Bottom line: They cannot deliver. They will at best offer cash.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 20:47 | 1458099 BrianOFlanagan
BrianOFlanagan's picture

there are 2 billion ounces of silver bullion above ground - plenty to go around.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 20:48 | 1458104 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Above ground =/= available to issuers

Next trick, sophist?

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 20:51 | 1458111 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Only 2B? LMAO. Sure there is Bri....


Thu, 07/14/2011 - 21:05 | 1458142 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Why do you assume I don't know about this or haven't read it? I am well acquainted with the numbers, and they don't add up.

You act as if gold and silver holders are somehow intellectually lazy and don't spend time researching things.



Thu, 07/14/2011 - 21:35 | 1458200 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Answer to the "why":

a track record full of junks, and which is remarkably PM obsessive. I wonder why.

Could it be, that he is just another PM-troll?

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 22:45 | 1458315 oldman
oldman's picture

No one takes physical with any intention of ever selling

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 20:43 | 1458091 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture


Anyone defending or supporting the COMEX, SEC, CFTC and the bullion banks like JPM (concerning gold or silver), is just a plain fucking idiot. End of story. 

Traders like Flanagan should know better than anyone else on this (and they do) yet they continually post this bullshit over and over again.


Thu, 07/14/2011 - 20:49 | 1458105 BrianOFlanagan
BrianOFlanagan's picture

I have no problem with Comex or the CFTC - both are handling their responsibilities quite well.  The SEC is a completely different story, though.


Thu, 07/14/2011 - 20:59 | 1458129 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

I know you don't. That's exactly why you have no credibility to post on this topic.


Thu, 07/14/2011 - 22:17 | 1458270 Libertarians fo...
Libertarians for Prosperity's picture

Anyone defending or supporting the COMEX, SEC, CFTC and the bullion banks like JPM (concerning gold or silver), is just a plain fucking idiot. End of story....

If you're going to accuse these guys, then you must also accuse HSBC of being manipulators and thieves because they're named in virtually every silver manipulation lawsuit along with JPM.

You must also include Morgan Stanley, since they were accused in 2007 of fraudulent silver manipulation games: loaning out 100oz of silver for every 1oz they actually had, charging storage fees on this phantom silver, etc.

Now, here's the part you don't know... 

When Sprott launched PSLV, which bank do you think Sprott chose as one of the main underwriters?  HSBC.

Today, when Sprott announced his secondary PHYS offering, which bank did he choose?  Yep, you guessed it, Morgan Stanley.

This, from a guy who markets himself as the one, true Wall Street Robin Hood who is leading the "little guys" in the fight against manipulation in the metals market.  It's pure hypocrisy at its most obvious.   

Whether or not you goons believe in gold and silver is one thing, but for all of you to worship Sprott, and believe that he is any different than any other opportunistic, billionaire hedge fund manager really illustrates your ignorance.  Sprott just happens to be the guy with the catnip du jour, just like Paulson had his day in 07/08. 


Thu, 07/14/2011 - 22:36 | 1458301 SilverDosed
SilverDosed's picture

Makes sense, you've given me something to look into at least. Personally I see paper silver as paper silver; who knows whats behind it but it serves its purposes for me. Physical is for stacking, paper is to make more paper to buy more physical to stack. It works till it doesnt anymore. I havent looked too deeply into Sprott's game but what you say is plausible. You should post links when you make statements that bold but I know how to use google.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 22:43 | 1458313 Libertarians fo...
Libertarians for Prosperity's picture

Anyone defending or supporting the COMEX, SEC, CFTC and the bullion banks like JPM (concerning gold or silver), is just a plain fucking idiot. End of story....

Pay of Pigs...  You do realize that you've just called Sprott a "fucking idiot," don't you?

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 23:15 | 1458344 Rynak
Rynak's picture

What a lame-ass flamebait - try harder!

<25% allocation =/= near 100% allocation.

One may argue about the longterm safety of storage (which is why i still prefer personal storage over "sprott storage"), but the allocation percentage alone, puts Sprott into an entirely different league than traditional "ETFs".

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 22:23 | 1458286 SilverDosed
SilverDosed's picture

I actually think these troll posts are helpful as they spur conversation, argument, and hopefully the spread of real knowledge if people back their arguments up with facts and documentation. Sure they're tired if you've been reading ZH for a while but sometimes you have to repeat the same battles many times even if only to educate the new readers.

No I didnt junk anyone as you can see by my sn which dog I've picked in this fight but I can see where some would take offense at the delivery of some arguments more than the actual arguments themselves. Ad Hominem attacks detract from credibility even if you're on the right side of the argument. This is fight club however so anyone that disagrees with me can fuck off and die.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 23:12 | 1458363 Rynak
Rynak's picture

In theory agree, but do not in practice agree.

The "popular"  understanding of useful trolling, it is NOT just replies that add potential usefulness to trolling, but instead that the troll-post itself is designed to provoke discussion that allows to break false/untrue beliefs.

This most of the time is NOT the case with PM-trolls. All they intend to do, is to actually sabotage discussion of alternative opinions, and provoke bipolar camping.

What a "useful" trollpost on ZH would look like, is one that - while provocative and anti-common consensus - is designed to question actual contradictions in common consensus. On average, posters which provide this on ZH, are not trolls, but simply people who ignore common consensus and post questions and opinions because they notice popular opinion does not add up - instead of just trolling for the sake of trolling.

I'd love to say that ZH trolls are actually useful, because if they were, they would provide something which i someway miss on ZH (and which is why i myself frequently post opinions, that are not in line with common consensus). But honestly and sadly, thats not the case. Your typical ZH-troll post is worth nothing more than the trashcan.

Perhaps, if we had less paid psyops and sadists, and more trolls who post purely for ridiculing contradictory common consensus, i would appreciate them. But as it is now, they're just a plague.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 20:13 | 1458037 hack3434
hack3434's picture

Secrecy...You're in the wrong business my friend.  

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 20:29 | 1458067 BlackChicken
BlackChicken's picture

What is so great...? 

There is no counter-party risk, and regardless of what happens, there is instant access to an item that has been money for thousands of years. 

The wide bid ask is a cost of having something real and not talked about, promised, or leveraged.  This argument/point is always totted out and is a fairly comical way to discourage physical delivery...this is NOT a coincidence.

The issue of paying 100% cash is something that happens to people when they buy something real and take possession of it.

How to store it where it will not get stolen?  A roll of forty 1/2 Oz. eagles is actually tiny and quite easy to stash/hide if you have some imagination and some basic skills.

This was not intended as a reply to the troll/whore/shill, but to inform others who may be confused by this ass clown's comments that are repeated for some unknown effect.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 20:45 | 1458093 BrianOFlanagan
BrianOFlanagan's picture

but you still have counterparty risk for physical gold.  Unless it's a cash and carry transaction, you still are subject to the risk that the dealer goes bankrupt before your order is delivered, it is lost in transit or the dealer is a fraud (such cases are quite common).


Thu, 07/14/2011 - 22:50 | 1458328 tmosley
tmosley's picture

lol, so a risk that is perhaps equal to 1% of your total assets in that class has counterparty risk is the same as 100% forever?

Do you see why no-one takes you seriously?

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 04:45 | 1458611 zuuuueri
zuuuueri's picture

that's not counterparty risk, that is risk in the completion of a transaction. 

Any transaction has that momentary state where one party has given but not yet received, regardless of what is being exchanged. If an asteroid strikes in that moment, whoops. 

Seriously, you don't begin to assume counterparty risk until you actually complete the transaction whereby you acquired the item. Until then, it's not countrparty risk because there's no counterparty. 

Just like the risk of being mugged as you walk out of the building is not counterparty risk, thats the risk of... being mugged as you walk out of the building. 

And, really, what the hell happened to education in america that peoples brains have been completely filled with cliche terms and catch phrases and jingles, that they can no longer use the right goddamned words for things! the media talks about 'counterparty risk' so everything is 'counterparty risk'.... c'mon people! 



Thu, 07/14/2011 - 19:15 | 1457923 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Might it also be that if the confidence is high that Sprotts paper gold (or silver) is the real deal and will continue to be a genuine asett through crisis that it should reflect a handsome premium and fiat value closer to the real value of the metal?

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 09:09 | 1458997 Manthong
Manthong's picture

I've asked the above question in one form or another whenever I've seen Sprott as the topic of conversation.

I do not argue the fact that for unlevered protection and store of wealth that physical in your hand (vault, basement, under your garden etc.) is optimal, but I still would like to hear conclusive evidence that the fiat ounce value of PHYS and PSLV is inextricably and permanently linked to the real thing regardless of external conditions..

and whatever argues against that.

Isn't anybody up to it?

Mon, 07/18/2011 - 21:35 | 1461794 Rynak
Rynak's picture

I still would like to hear conclusive evidence that the fiat ounce value of PHYS and PSLV is inextricably and permanently linked to the real thing regardless of external conditions..

Answer: There is no such thing as "regardless of external conditions".... not even if you yourself are holding the "real thing".... if some military gov sockpuppets manage to find what you hold, and by pure material (external) force force it out of your hands, then thats what happens.  Same for any other party doing the same to you. What matters regarding "external" factors, in terms of trust, is just if you consider, if you have a better probability of keeping stuff in control, than some specific "someone else".

As it is now, i do not consider "someone else" more probable to enforce control on my conditions, than myself - but i do not consider it imposible, that someone else may be more probably to do this job, than me - i just so far am not aware of such an entitiy.

To explain this potential with an example: Whom do i consider most probable to guard my privacy on the net? I could launch an own proxy, but considering the environment, do i consider that more reliable... than entrusting my privacy to one of the most notorious "bandits" on the net.... the "pirate bay"? Do i think, that someone who has shown to defy gov orders, has heck a lots of cash at the disposal, has specialized lawyers, is located in a country with laws more suited than mine, AND (!!!) has a personal interest in this (basically, sharing my agenda), is more capable to guard my privacy than myself ??? HELL YES! Outlaws sharing my agenda, and with leverage all the way! And i gladly pay premium for this.

(Readers may want to pause at this moment to consider the implications: in a fucked up world like this, the most notorius bandits are the most trustworthy party, to guard one of the most precious things: One's own privacy)

And no, this wasn't hypothetical - they actually do provide an encrypted proxy service to customers.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 22:45 | 1458317 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Yes, there are exactly ZERO storage issues.


Thu, 07/14/2011 - 19:10 | 1457909 eisley79
eisley79's picture

"You must really be butthurt, WilliamtheBastard/TexasGunslinger/18OtherTrollAliases, that your former REAL libertarian, pro-gold nemesis, tmosley, does not spend much time on these boards any more. Whatever is a disingenuous, malicious troll to do?"


people tend to post on articles on subjects that interest them.  I am sure he and the rest of the(us) silver bugs are still waiting in the wings for more silver articles to post on :).  The trolls are waiting to, for that crash that never happened...always looking for some way to claim victory.

as for decoupling in Gold or silver, or even in non-monetary assets.  The day it really comes, there wont be any debating it.  When the other shoe finally falls for the US, people will have more to worry about than posting on zero hedge though...


for the's my opinion of where we are headed.

-mini crash/euro crisis


-dead cat bounce

-big crash

-QE4/all in

-no effect, markets can no longer be manipulated

-DOW 0, Gold Infinity

and the trolls can quote that :)

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 19:39 | 1457982 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

Sounds about right.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 19:48 | 1457996 yakmerchant
yakmerchant's picture

Close but you forgot Weimar hell and the rolling off the dollar step.


-mini crash/euro crisis


-dead cat bounce

-big crash

-QE4/all in

-no effect, markets can no longer be manipulated

-Massive hyperinflation,  Dollars good for wiping ass

-Bread $700,  Dow 700,  Gold Infinity

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 19:55 | 1458003 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

Dollars good for wiping ass


Never wipe your ass with Dollars!

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 19:38 | 1457975 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

Word, cross-bones.  I was just starting to miss the Moze, with that little frog's eye fronting the sharp wit.  Dammit, the trolls are winning..

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 21:50 | 1458228 web bot
web bot's picture

you forgot Leo....   :)

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 23:01 | 1458346 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Yup, I haven't had time.  My lab has seen a large influx of projects, including anti-cancer and anti-HIV drug work (the latter has seen the loss of a weighty piece of baggage which was holding back progress).  As such, I hardly have time to read anymore, much less comment.  Certainly don't have time to tenderize these trolls to make delicious troll-steaks.  How I miss the flavor of forcing them to flee and adopt yet another fresh new nickname.

Oh well, I like the work better.  True revolutionary work.  We're going to get a nobel prize for this work eventually, unless the PIs both die before the technology hits the mainstream.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 23:33 | 1458394 Libertarians fo...
Libertarians for Prosperity's picture

We're going to get a nobel prize for this work eventually....

Pure douche baggery, as always and as expected. 

Mosley-Claven: The only vehemently anti-government anarchist who is completely dependent on government grants.  You must have some serious cognitive dissonance.

How's "Drill Time" going?


Thu, 07/14/2011 - 18:09 | 1457760 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Dear reappearing troll:

Three points:

1.   "The doomer goons who tell you that paper and physical have decoupled are FULL OF SHIT"

This point would be TRUE!   As long as you can buy physical for paper, which is still the case, how could it be otherwise.   Will look out for such 'doomers'


2.   And the same doomer goons who tell you that physical is worth more than the paper are also FULL OF SHIT.


Here I must disagree.   If by 'worth' you mean an exchange via FRNs, then see 1 above.    However, 'worth' outside of the paper trade, is specific to the individual.    So, for many who desire physical over 'paper gold', you are not qualified to evaluate any greater 'worth' vis.a.vis paper.   So you are WRONG!


3.   Do us a favor and DIE!    I will feed you no more, F off, don't bother responding - you'll onlymake me laugh

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 22:48 | 1458320 oldman
oldman's picture

serious people never sell gold

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 18:19 | 1457784 DrStrangelove
DrStrangelove's picture

Sprott's physical gold trust is not paper silver in the way many other intruments are though.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 19:31 | 1457966 knukles
knukles's picture

Gold is not Silver,
Sprott or Nott

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 23:07 | 1458356 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Full of shit, you say?    Where, pray tell, can I get silver at spot?  Even 1000oz bars at retail outlets are 59 cents over spot per oz.

Or are you just blathering on in your eternal ignorance?

I love how you can't tell the difference between "decoupling" and "has decoupled".  It's like you're three years old or something.  Cute, in a sickening, faith-in-humanity annihilating way.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 19:21 | 1457940 drom
drom's picture

PHYS is a step above paper gold, you can trade your shares in to have the physical delviered.  As we all know your gonna have to pay 2% to 3% premium for physical from a dealer anyway.  You can't put PHYS in the same class as GLD, if you read the prospectus you will see the differences, PHYS you can get physical gold, GLD you just have paper and thats it. For my IRA I like to buy PHYS when the premium dips below 2.5%.  If the premium ever goes negative pn PHYS again I'm gonna load up on the IRA, but if anyway has a reason not to please let me know.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 20:47 | 1458098 Thisson
Thisson's picture

In NYC, dealers charge 6% if you want to hand them cash and get physical.

If you know of a NYC dealer offering less than this, please let me know.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 20:52 | 1458112 BrianOFlanagan
BrianOFlanagan's picture

Manfra, Tordella & Brookes

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 23:26 | 1458390 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Hamilton, Frank & Reynolds...

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 04:56 | 1458614 zuuuueri
zuuuueri's picture

call tulving and he'll sort you out.


Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:40 | 1457704 Bindar Dundat
Bindar Dundat's picture

He bought this on April 5 and then sold in May....I do not get the point!

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:59 | 1457740 camoes
camoes's picture



Oh I get it, it's tradition to hold physical...why not seashells instead???

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:12 | 1457603 mynhair
mynhair's picture

From where did they get it?

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:23 | 1457643 FranSix
FranSix's picture

Sprott has various sources, buying gold straight out of the mines.  But they also have deals in place for payment in gold for lending capital.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:26 | 1457655 mynhair
mynhair's picture

By any chance, can you share the delivery schedule?

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:52 | 1457726 LeBalance
LeBalance's picture

robbing the 5pm stagecoach, pard!

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 19:29 | 1457961 knukles
knukles's picture

Regardless of source, it all complies with LMBA good delivery standards.... so sayeth the Prospecti.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:15 | 1457613 Id fight Gandhi
Id fight Gandhi's picture

Gold that old tradition stuff, nor money. Useless. Ben told me so.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:25 | 1457654 Careless Whisper
Careless Whisper's picture

there's about to be a spankin'. and here's the guy to do it


Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:17 | 1457618 ArrestBobRubin
ArrestBobRubin's picture

Way to go Eric. The noose around the gold cartel's neck just got a bit tighter. Can't wait for the floorplate to drop out and to hear that thing go SNAP.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:32 | 1457678 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Less than 24 hours from now the Central Bank of DoChenRollingBearing will be buying gold.  The bearing cannot buy right now because I am in Peru!

Please don´t front-run me too much!

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:53 | 1457731 nonclaim
nonclaim's picture

Peru "produces" gold and silver so I wonder why not buy it while you are there.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 18:01 | 1457742 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

US Customs is why.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 22:49 | 1458318 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

It's legal to import gold and I believe there isn't any duty on bullion.  I doubt it's any cheaper in Peru though.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:18 | 1457620 wandstrasse
wandstrasse's picture

213,800 ounces (6.6 tons) of tradition.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:19 | 1457622 spartan117
spartan117's picture

He should buy $300 million in physical silver instead to see what would happen.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 19:27 | 1457958 knukles
knukles's picture

Just wait for the follow-on in PSLV.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:19 | 1457624 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

He said he would make all offerings at the price plus the premium.  So I would not try to arb this.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:21 | 1457630 EvlTheCat
EvlTheCat's picture


Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:22 | 1457631 plocequ1
plocequ1's picture

How does that equate to Google dollars? Quick, pull me up a chart.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:27 | 1457661 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

You need Google+ for that (Google+Au or Google+Ag).

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:25 | 1457649 FranSix
FranSix's picture

You would normally think of mining stock as undervalued compared to the gold price, rather than an ETF.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:28 | 1457664 mynhair
mynhair's picture

I feel your pain.  Just needed 2 more cents on GPL today, and 4 off ZSL.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:26 | 1457657 monopoly
monopoly's picture

You all notice most of the "brillant ones" have moved on from here. Been quiet on the rip us side. I wonder if they all went over to Yahoo to annoy those folks.

Nice consolidation today on the miners. Would like another day or two just like this and then we might set up for another move higher.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:26 | 1457659 caerus
caerus's picture


Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:32 | 1457679 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

If I were a rich man...

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:26 | 1457660 Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

Sprott funds buy gold, sell silver. Hmmm....

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:37 | 1457695 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Hmm, indeed.

Silver for spending if TSHTF.

Gold to carry our wealth through to the other side.

Need more gold.


Thu, 07/14/2011 - 19:16 | 1457927 eisley79
eisley79's picture

"through to the other side"

welcome to Canada ;)

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:29 | 1457667 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture


Bernacke can call it 'tradition' but the IMF?...well...they have this other category 'monetary gold'...

wonder what they mean....probably just another wealth asset...kinda like

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:52 | 1457727 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Awesome catch, LVP!

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:33 | 1457684 Shineola
Shineola's picture

Sprott is wise to hold physical and I believe he can be trusted to deliver it when the time comes.  It is probably wiser yet, to hold one's own gold.  

Friends, the balance in your Wall Street trading account is only a projection of the man behind the curtain.  If you don't have phyzz, you can trade "gold" electrons all day long and be ruled by the emotional surges that come with your fixation.   They send these pulses through your brain, by your own permission! You believe, so THEY control you.

The markets we watch are all rigged by the producers of the movie.  Sure, you can play them and make some play money.  But, when they run the credits at the end of the show, and you realize that John Wayne is and actor and not a cowboy, the hunger in your belly will be very real.

And remember that you need to eat real food, at least every few days, to survive.  They know this and will use it against you as well.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:35 | 1457692 Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

Sprott will deliver...if you can afford 400 oz bars. Otherwise...

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 20:09 | 1458025 Double down
Double down's picture

Spot on and very important

It is better to consider PHYS as template for a gold standard. 

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 22:52 | 1458331 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

How do you know Sprott is anymore likely to deliver than a Swiss bank that is also audited?

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 22:50 | 1458329 oldman
oldman's picture


Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:33 | 1457685 Careless Whisper
Careless Whisper's picture
Sprott Asset Management Adds Another 6.6 Tons Of Physical Gold To PHYS ETF

Memo to Mister TD:

PHYS is not an ETF it is a closed-end fund.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 19:24 | 1457951 knukles
knukles's picture

It also happens to be a PFIC for which a Form 8621 must be filed in order to upon disposition be treated as a capital gain or loss as opposed to ordinary income. 


And Goddamnit, 13 times -21 does equal -273.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:35 | 1457689 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Sprott just made a highly strategic move, steeped in the deepest central bank tradition.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:39 | 1457703 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Buy gold and be your own central bank!

I read that at:

Everyone should read that blog!  Mine too!

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:38 | 1457700 steveo
steveo's picture

Triple Fibonacci Fan on S&P 500

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 18:28 | 1457806 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Looks more like a Fwank Fart to me.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:40 | 1457705 zorba THE GREEK
zorba THE GREEK's picture

 Sprott - Buy gold sell silver

 Kitco - Sell gold buy silver


Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:56 | 1457729 KidDynamite
KidDynamite's picture

Tyler - you copied and pasted a press release from the PRIOR secondary offering of PHYS shares - the date is right on the release: April 5th.

The correct SEC filing for the new release is here (oddly, they did NOT announce a number of units anywhere!):

and it's important because there is no mention of Sprott's own funds buying shares in the offering.

What investors should really be wondering is why Sprott doesn't do this with silver...

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 18:25 | 1457799 FranSix
FranSix's picture

I presume they would be looking at financing gold mines.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:54 | 1457734 Gloeschi
Gloeschi's picture

priced @ $12.54? From Sprott's press release: "Under the trust agreement governing the Trust, the net proceeds of the Offering per unit must be not less than 100% of the most recently calculated net asset value per Unit of the Trust prior to, or upon determination of, pricing of the offering."

NAV at 5:18pm was $13.42.

I bet they meant $13.54.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:57 | 1457737 KidDynamite
KidDynamite's picture

no - they priced it at $12.54 - back in April... this is an old press release Tyler is looking at.

Sprott did announce a new PHYS secondary today, but there's no size or price announced, and it was also not annoucned that his funds are buying shares in it.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 18:02 | 1457744 GymStud
GymStud's picture

Been adding to my own PHYZZ piles too!
Just came across a good explanation of why a return to a gold standard would benefit the bankers, and not the people.

Makes sense...we need free gold/free silver, not a gold or silver standard.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 18:08 | 1457759 miker
miker's picture

I own this closed end fund because I want an investment that holds real gold.  Can someone tell me clearly what all this means?  Is it normal and business as usual?

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 18:26 | 1457798 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture


Your GOLD! YOUR Vault or closet or whatever.

If you cannot see, touch, and store it, you don't own it.


I strongly believe you got less than 24 hours before all paper is cremated.

If you google zero hedge, about the second or third result should refer to that article which I mentionn.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 18:32 | 1457816 PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture

Everyone is following the Central Banks.....buying Gold.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 18:52 | 1457873 tallen
tallen's picture

But gold isn't money and it can be dug out the ground for $5.


Hahahha /sarcasm.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 19:36 | 1457972 knukles
knukles's picture

Potatoes ain't money and can be dug out of the ground for 3 cents.
Maybe we can get Ben to trade?

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 19:22 | 1457926 drom
drom's picture


Thu, 07/14/2011 - 22:32 | 1458297 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture


Why doesn't a hedge fund sack up and just buy all the open interest in the COMEX and stand for delivery the next reporting period?

Seems like a layup trade to me if the rumors were true about lack of physical and/or massive naked short postions.

I guess the funds would rather buy BBBY, FOSL, LULU, CMG, etc.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 22:53 | 1458336 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Why would you buy out a bankrupt company?

What, you just want to get defaulted on?  That is the threat, and from what I have heard, that is exactly the threat they use on anyone who doesn't accept paper rather than silver.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 22:56 | 1458341 PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture

"Bu tyou can't eat gold!"...I heard them say when gold was $250.....$450....$850....$950...$1040.....$1200....$1400.....$1500....

How Barbaric!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 23:18 | 1458376 static
static's picture

the premium should come down as a result of the i look to add..

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 00:16 | 1458431 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Central Banks' First-Half Gold Buying Surpasses 2010 Total

"Central banks have bought more gold in the first half of this year than in all of 2010 as a long-anticipated reversal in so-called "official sector" sales gathers pace, a gold group reported on

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 03:33 | 1458588 Gavrikon
Gavrikon's picture

Here in Germany, many dealers are also paying over spot when they buy coins back from you.  If you can read German, take a look at, and compare the Ankauf (Buy) vs Verkauf (Sell) prices for various products.  Compare that to the current spot price in Euros.  That has been quite a shock to me.

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 06:08 | 1458680 zuuuueri
zuuuueri's picture

no, perfectly normal. this is because those particular products have some premium value over spot- convenient small quantity, well-recognized stamp from a respected source, etc. small quantities in popular shapes and sizes.. ounce and fractional, have some value over their metal content for convenience etc. it is to be expected that the spread for a particular item will be more or less centered around _its_ going price, which will be some percentage over spot.

if you want to buy close to spot, buy kilo bars. For a lot of folks there is etra value in the convenience of a fractional ouce coin, over a kilo bar.


Fri, 07/15/2011 - 06:10 | 1458682 PaperBear
PaperBear's picture

Add more silver to your Physical Silver Trust, Mr Sprott.

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 11:13 | 1459413 dropdeadfed
dropdeadfed's picture


Fri, 07/15/2011 - 06:51 | 1458712 TheMadNumismatist
TheMadNumismatist's picture

That is a great point. Here in the UK we have to charge 20% VAT, or sales tax, making the premium over spot in the region of 40% in most retailers and Ebay. I can only imagine the losses from when spot was at $48 with 30-40% premium. Let’s just hope it does hit $80 so they can break even.

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