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SPY Flash Crashes: NYSE Cancels $500 Million Worth Of Trades
Why bother with crashing individual stocks when you can crash the most traded entity of all. Today at precisely 4:15 the SPY flash crashed, sending the price of the most popular security in the world down to $106.46 from its opening price of $117.74.
Luckily for all the people who wrote in to us, and thousands more, who may have had MOC orders that got filled at 10% lower, the exchange has cancelled millions worth of trades. Per Bloomberg: "NYSE Euronext cancelled all trades
in the $74.8 billion SPDR S&P 500 ETF Trust that occurred at
almost 10 percent below the security’s opening price, according
to an email sent by the exchange." And as presented below (which is a mere sample of all the DKed trades) there were about $500 million worth of notional that just got cancelled. The market is a farce, wrapped in a joke, inside a tragicomedy.
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+1
"flash crash", fair and square. deal with the consequences of more and more participants leaving the markets because you (Euronext) sold your soul for a transaction orgy from HFTs. now, they are all you have. I hope you enjoyed the boost in your quarterly earnings for a little while. Now enjoy the unintended consequences of your short-sightedness.
Too fast (THz) to fail?
+1, funny.
THz - whazzat - a TimmahHurtz?
for those who believe this: The market is a farce, wrapped in a joke, inside a tragicomedy--- I feel truly sorry that people take a market-based algorythm which is *NOT* the way markets are supposed to be managed--- and somehow these prophets of doom make these events (computer runneth amok) tantamount to the ENTIRE market being a fraud. price of gas is a fraud, eggs are a fraud, air is a fraud, water bill is a fraud.... what else???
bottom line is that many of these programs are faster than the NYSE and as a result the system gets overloaded. like commodities being up or down limit. the regulators need to keep up with the algo-traders trying to exploit the system for micro-slivers of a penny.
No, bottom line is the markets we see every day keep climbing in FRN terms, when everyone knows the economy is still tanking. The markets have been disconnected from fundamentals by ex-market forces, and therein lies the fraud. Who knows what the 'real' price of gas is? There's no free market there.
I think it's about time the NYSE and others start pricing the market in gold or silver ounces. Wouldn't that be fun for the Fed?
Why did so many algorithms clear $500MM of trades at that price? Why do the trades need to be cancelled?
WTF are you talking about and/or which gov't agency do you work for?
The integrity of bona fide quotes is paramount to the functioning of the markets.
I suggest you reference SEC Rule 602 and NASD Rule 3310. These rules were designed to specifically PROHIBIT the activity you are condoning. It doesn't matter whether you're a flesh and blood human being or a machine, if you're not willing to buy/sell at the published price, DON'T PUT THE FUCKING BID/ASK in!
As to your point re:
"these events (computer runneth amok) tantamount to the ENTIRE market being a fraud."
Considering that backing away is a strictly prohibited form of market manipulation and further that "algo" quote stuffing into a rally is completely IGNORED by the regulators whereas, "algo" backing away into a selloff warrants immediate regulator action to nullify and cancel the trades, yeah, I'd say it's a fraud.
I wish that *HFT* errors didn't hit the market like AI wish for no traffic jams in "LA" but that doesn't mean that "LA" is a traffic-fraud.
People who own "CVX" today won't care it it gets hit with some computer error for a few minutes once a year. it's like when brokers used to (and still do) miss one of the bonds on an account statement and the customer shows (-$1,000,000.00) in their account. Dumb errors and for those who want to make it 100% of their "current" reality then God bless them for their personal "5 minutes of Terror" before the market recorrects itself. Truth be told--- earnings---- and not HFT or POMO or quote-stuffing--- EARNINGS drive prices over time and in time---- as this current stupidity falls by the wayside--- earnings always drive price in the end. There are lots of places to find high quality streams of earnings, at a discount. love the economy. Hate the market? Sure--- whatever's your bag.
consider the wisdom.
shawn a. mesaros, pamria, llc
So why do we need a Federal Reserve?
THAT is the multi-trillion dollar question.
they have an air force with air bases. they fly in to your nearest bank if need be. to date i note "they're only in the business of making deposits at said institutions near airports although budget hawks have ask 'why the friggin' airport thing?'.";,.-=]\'[;. withdrawals are for all of us at the Wal Mart check out counter in case you're wondering.
Why? For exactly the same reason as all countries need a central bank - to rob the vast majority of the population of their hard earned wealth.
The free citizens who provide goods and services have no need of a Private monopoly of a handful of World-based Capital which creates fake credit money and withdraws it along with your equity at each bubble pop.
"People who own "CVX" today won't care it it gets hit with some computer error for a few minutes once a year."
Are you really this dense? If you had a stop loss at 5% and the randomly moving 'cancel' benchmark nullifies all trades at more than 6% during a 'once a year' flash crash you sure as shit will care. If not, then I'm sure you won't mind me randomly taking 5% from your savings account 'once a year' or so just for shits and giggles. "Consider the wisdom"
I am going to repeat myself for those with some perspective beyond the "pico-seconds" most algo's hold positions;
If you need to place a "stop loss' on a 2% position within a 30% allocation to US equities with a global business like CVX we're talking about a 0.60% position in a portfolio. Errrr.... yeah right.... the flasher really got me?
pretty "unusual" to get stopped out on a 0.60% position in CVX and blame some quote-stuffing algorythm on your "massive loss" and then cry for the bankruptcy and carnage of an entire system.
yup--- all those degrees were a waste, all the real-life experience a waste, all licenses and tests a waste. police and fire, also a waste, leadership and teachers a waste?---- who are we kidding. this is the real world and it doesn't exist one flash crash error at a time.
consider the wisdom? yes.... consider the wisdom.
at worst--- with solid advise--- you'll lose less, even with the 5% stop-loss-mandate on 0.60% of the portfolio.
consider the wisdom
shawn a. mesaros, pamria, llc
Licenses
Series 7 - General Securities Representative
Series 9_10 - Supervisor General Securities
Series 31 - Futures Managed Fund
Series 63 - Uniform Securities Law
Series 65 - Registered Investment Advisor
for Pete's sake..ha ha ha ha ha ha...can you say vested interest? yeah, there are tin foilers here, there are also rational thinkers..you know what I see Mr. Mesaros? someone who's bread and butter supper is coming up rotten bread and Limburger. feel bad for you as a person..! that's why you lash out. the $$ not coming in...no retail suckers for you to cater your wares to. careful ZH faithful..they spoke about fight club. what's the suicide rate in WA again? so rainy..so cloudy..shit storm on the way and you know it.
EY, no one junk this guy either. keep it prestine.
just business as usual? truly cognitive dissonance. poor thing.
...interestingly, there are never any "flash buy-ups", only "flash crashes".
if you're talking "cancelled trade" then this is clearly false. "somebody made money and that's against the rules" is what the authorities are saying. rather interesting that "it's coming from New York" don't you think? in other words, "who the phuck's out of money! the whole City??? Whattttt???"
you're an officious prick shawn. I pray to jesus you lose your shirt.
one self-righteous twit who clearly believes that he is much more 'successful' than he truly is. for all of his self-serving statistics, he's got a lot to learn.
what a joker. funny.
for guys like some people I see on these threads, they feed the animal that should be banned. yes---- true enough---- if you understand whats going on in the first place you make more than the other guy. unfortunately I have seen this cycle a few times now and interestingly enough, that edge goes away, too. back to the much harder work of investing vs blog-slamming.
Don't you understand? The proper function of a market is to be a ratchet, that only goes up!
That's why crashes must be investigated but not meltups!
/sarc
Markets not a farce? Fuck me running, where is my ticket on the Good Ship Lollipop?
got it right here. that'll be 10.....thousand....singapore dollars. or maybe a million...hold on. i'll get back to you on that
Johnny Bravo has taken to shill work for the AlgoMan himself.
So this makes what...eight single "securities" this year...not counting fat fingered Waddel's and ham handed Reed's?
I refuse to play this roulette wheel another moment. I dumped all equities save for a minor few inverse etf's. This is just plain madness...
I too am out.
It got me thinking, though, how many individuals does it take, at the margin, to do likewise in order to wreck the algo's/ptb game? A lot, or a comparative few? Can they continue gunning the market as long as there's at least one sucker still playing? (IOW, can they really just play with themselves?)
.
your reverse ETF's are even worse (much much worse) than what you just sold. in a normalized distribution of volatility (which is what you get over time) these inverse and leveraged ETF's all go to zero---- yes ZERO.
consider the wisdom
shawn a. mesaros pamria, llc
one self-righteous twit who clearly believes that he is much more 'successful' than he truly is. for all of his self-serving statistics, he's got a lot to learn.
what a joker. funny.
so many angry people = so much low hanging fruit.
keep it up!
have to buy positions tomorrow!
who is angry?
Shawn, you are obviously a clever person, but you are also a very condescending person. true, there are a lot of reactionary types on this site. However, why cannot you simply ignore the fools, instead of jumping at the chance to vent yourself at their expense? Who exactly is angry here?
Nobody minds you focussing on the facts, but 'consider the wisdom' of doing so with some manners if you wish to endear yourself. Take the "junks" to heart. After all, you boast your name just about anywhere you are able. Nothing wrong with tooting your own horn, but you may wish to protect that name by communicating a bit more wisely.
thats just some friendly advice from me to you. I know you understand.
keep up the good work. thank you for the constructive input.
out.
and stacking.
~MV
sec building confidence in teh market.
when the fukkk is someone going to jail, huh?
Get those HFT computers off the exchanges NOW!
AAPL halt dislocation?
just remember and never forget - it's the fed's fault. the whole fukkking lot of it.
enabler of last resort.
I'm not really worried about flash crashes.
Most of the stuff I have are such slow movers, a flash crash in any one of them would be equal to a half day's trading range in many of the mo-mo stocks being gunned by the day traders.
One of my stocks ED made new 52-week highs today. It is lucky to see a $1 move in one day. Flash crashes don't even faze it.
Here's are my largest holdings as of today:
HD, MRK, VZ, T, ED, SO, MO, JNJ, ERF, PVX, COP, NUE, FCX.
Most of the time, my portfolio barely moves 1% a day.
Today, I did buy some STI, X, and NEM which will add some volatility.
LOL.....
STI ? it didn't rally with the market in the afternoon.
this is the type of shit I am in, a lotta MLPs and whatnot too. Lookin for yield more than CGs
as someone who actually has to trade this market and keep open portfolios, a slow grower / flatliner with a decent dividend is my favorite stock. otherwise its just a game of russian roulette, or living dangerously...either way the end result is restless nights. go slow!
You're portfolio only meanders around 1% per day? That's wonderful!
When you wake up from your nominal nightmare, you'll find your cotton Zerohedge shirt, merry-go-round rides, and lube will be twice as much. At least you can purchase land for half price (title not included).
I expect a flash crash in uup any day now - without the "flash" part.
Bucket shop drive. Ha!
Well this is going to cause problems. This is why I have no money in the market. I used to be very active but this is just not worth it. It's kinda like scoring a legit touchdown only for your points to be taken away because the REF didn't think it was fair.
This is bullshit. But I sure do enjoy watching it.
Three Cheers for Robo....never loses and those charts are never to be ignored...
I've lost plenty. I tried shorting a few crappy stocks like ODP, OMX, PIR here and there and I keep getting blown out with 4% - 5% losses. I gave it up a month ago and decided to stop trying to fade the tape.
I'm still up a decent amount on the year.
But not nearly as much as those chasing the IBD Top 100 screamers, Cramer's horsemen, and all the other crack vehicles.
I can't afford to be shanked, since I'm trading for a living now.
Get thee to the choppa'....with the rest of us.
Short?? Why would you short? You know that makes Hal very angry. He dosent like shorts. Hal is watching you. He knows what you had for dinner last night.
up for the year? homie if you have the chance to take those profits and walk away, count yourself lucky you can, and don't end up looking back wishing you did.
equities up 60% in 2009, how could one go wrong not thinking at best a flatline and worst "the Great Depression II"? The bears have been uniquely wrong so it's driving everything up together. There has to be a divergence. It's either in the bond market or in the defensivistas in the equity market. They can't both go up. The money printing disallows the acuality of bank failure. Novo Ordo Seclorum. That's what the bill says.
Dearest Robot Trader, how exactly are you quantifying a decent return?
This market is a travesty of a mockery of a sham of a mockery of a travesty of two mockeries of a sham.
Just put a five cent tax on every trade. HFT problem solved.
Really! That's your solution? That five cent tax quickly becomes a ten cent tax which becomes a five percent tax which all becomes revenue to fund the regulators who refuse to do their jobs.
How about this for a solution:
START ENFORCING THE EXISTING RULES.
Imagine if after the next flash crash, the SEC simply did it's job and let the chips fall where they may.
Imagine, some individual investor who happened to be paying attention at 4:00 and picked up a hundred shares of SPY at 106. I bet he has a smile on his face tomorrow morning when SPY opens at 117.
Imagine, the unlicensed c++ programmer who has to explain to the owner of his company how the great big speedy algo machine that he created sold 100,000 shares of SPY out of the firm's book at 106 with a cost basis of 115.
That's free market capitalism at its best!
Your solution, another tax, is similar to Sarbanes-Oxley. Let's review: Enron and its chief executive officers commit wholesale fraud. Due to public outcry, Congress creates a bill that outlaws, wait for it, hold on, FRAUD. That's right fraud. Fraud which has been recognized as criminal since probably immediately following the first time it was committed. Furthermore, one of SOX's unintended consequences (why does so much that comes out of our national and state capitals have so many of these?) creates unneccesary and prohibitively expensive hurdles for smaller companies seeking capital (one could argue the raison d'etre of Wall Street).
Keep your tax. START ENFORCING THE DAMN EXISTING RULES!
+1 Hell yes. If the rules are not rules, where does that end?
Great theory, but I am absolutely certain that your proposal is not on the table. You can scream all you want. Here's a better idea, one that would actually work. Pull your capital.
Why won't anyone propose this in Congress? This IS the fucking solution to robotrading, and you are right, a damn nickle per trade tax would shut them down big time. This has to be brought to someone's attention who can get it done. Let Grayson put his name on this one, if he gets re-elected.
dupe.
No it won't.
1) You only create an additional revenue stream for the regulators who appear to be too busy watching tranny port on youporn to do their jobs and enforce the existing regulations.
2) YOUR cost of trade just went up by $0.1. Soon to be 4%.
3) As reported here on ZH several days ago, the algo's aren't really providing real liquidity. They actually fill very few trades daily. Your $0.05 tax means jack all shit to them and won't in any way alter their behavior.
Really? That's your solution?
"They actually fill very few trades daily"
Yet they account for 70-80% of the total volume? How does that work, Karl? I'll take my chances with the taxman. I really don't mind a dime round trip "tax", if that would slow these HFT guys down.
Bitching about not following the rules doesn't work. These guys write the damn rules, and design them so they don't apply to them.
I don't know where you get Karl from but whatev.
So listen up Poindexter 'cuz I'm gonna do ur homework fur ye just this one time:
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/60-minutes-brings-hft-mainstream-cftc-refutes-hft-liquidity-provisioning-argument
Not 70-80%, but 30%.
And you're really hilarious. You trust the "taxman" but not the "regulators."
I will not do your due diligence for you, but I suggest you refer to SEC Rule 602 and NASD Rule 3310. I'm not just bitching about the rules. And they most definitely apply to all market participants. If these two rules are not followed, the market is truly broken, and a simple tax is less effective than a fingertip bandaid on an arterial wound. Not just ineffective, but rather pointless.
I appreciate the fact that you don't mind a round trip "tax," but you know what, neither do the algos. Your solution does absolutely fuck all nothing to solve the problem, however, it does create added barriers to the individual retail and mutual fund investor.
btw, if the Karl comment is some sort of insinuation towards Karl Marx, I would point out that your belief in both taxation and that "[t]hese guys write the damn rules, and design them so they don't apply to them," is the epitome of marxist ideology, whereas, my fundamental assertion in the adherence to a set a rules designed to make a functioning free market is its antithesis.
The algos average profit per trade is less than 0.05. They'd be fucked. I'm not much for regulation but the algos are completely parasitic.
I did not know the avg profit was that low and not quite sure if you mean gross profit or profit per share, but in either case I feel it further proves my point.
One good flash crash where the trades stick (no DK, no cancels) and the algos on the wrong side of the trade will get wiped out a lot quicker than they will by eating away at their profits with a tax.
With a flash crash occuring now every other or third day, they should be gone by New Years.
Plus, I fail to see how providing yet another revenue stream to a regulatory regime that fails to enforce the existing rules and regulations accomplishes anything other than providing yet another revenue stream to a regulatory regime that fails to enforce the existing rules and regulations.
Spot on #12. Now, if we can only figure out how to enforce the constitution...
tranny porn? Is that watching the railroads fuck the airlines while the truckers come up the rear?
Why is this not being reported on bloomberg.com or cnbc.com?
Was on Bloomberg earlier and the link was quickly dropped:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-18/nyse-euronext-cancels-trades-of-s-p-500-etf-at-9-6-below-opening-price.html
If a market crashes in the woods and no one is there to see it, did it really crash?
If it was actually a market, I would say 'no'.
But this isn't a market - it's three-card-monte.
Only if a tree crashes on top of it to make sure it is dead.
And this is exactly why POMO,QE, False accouting,no volume and and riskless martkets are s&p dangerous to the system.
The powers are trying to do the imposssible.
They are attempting to recreate te 10 Trillion lost on 2008 with hocus pocus. To do such they print, debase, rumor monger, give inside information to the players, change accounting rules, create never before seen overt propaganda in the media and 100% manipulate whole trying to use the "fear" of a corrupt system actually occuring to stave off wolfpacks.
It is not working. It has not been working and the market always wins wether free or not because it possess it's only liberty. If you change the rules on the market inevitably it finds a way out of the handcuffs. Chaos Theory is not a joke. A system reliant upon increasingly intricate planning encounters inevitable a variable it cannot compensate for in time. That is because humans are emotional and not computers. We are te chaos.
Today shows you POMO when going into SPY support of selling against mutual fund outflow even with leverage can be nullified with a gapper. If all the volume is false on the way up the system is flawed because the greedy inevitably want out before their friends BECAUSE they know it is false pricing since they are party to it. Nobody can sell ever again and the game works until there is an event so Black Pterodactyl like nature it cam not be bought into. Then very easily the Billions in POMO can be wiped with one event.
Wall Street must cannibalize to survive. The intelligent hedge funds with bear views are hopefully meeting secretly to combat the system fixed against them by the PDs. Some may even have talent from the IBs aware of how the system works.
Tonight was a sham. The entire status quo is relaint upon lies, cheating and fear. By default this makes them weaker and less capable of combating what comes there way.
Woukd they have DQed this trade to the upside ?? No.
If Hoboma would guarantee a living wage for every man and woman in America, that's enough for a big house with domestic help, landscapers, pool boy, because the service industry can greatly speed up the velocity of money, then the stock market could do down, but meanwhile the wealth effect is all we have between us the Hoboma Camps. If corporate America can make a profit with financial engineering they don't need to charge a profit, they can even sell goods at a loss. Not until we all have a house, a car, and plenty of cash to dine out, will the stock market ever go down again, and in point of fact the wealth effect is such a thin margin now that it probably takes 100 s&P points just to buy each one of us a big mac. And it takes twice that in government spending to push Wall Street earnings higher. Government needs to POMO main street. Give consumers 1/2% interest and watch money velocity take off like a bullet. Ironic because on occasion Republicans suggest these kinds of things, instead of stupid tax cuts,
give a man a dollar, and ten cents of that dollar comes back in sales tax alone. teach a man to consume, and that dollar gets spent ten times over, at ten percent sales tax. this is why the Japanese had a lost decade.
It's exactly this type of idiotic shit that has put us in this situation to begin with.
There is no free lunch, dude...you want a sandwich, a POMO won't cut it, you have to make one. That requires real bread and real meat.
Fucking TRANSACTIONAL GDP is a goddamned joke as is all your crap about monetary "velocity" somehow being equivalent to REAL production! Listen to what you are saying, you think two accounts trading $1M back and forth 1T times is an economy? The velocity of money is IRRELEVANT. The world does not orbit around monetarism and it is a THOROUGHLY flawed doctrine!
Japan has not had a "lost decade," LOOK at their government debt! They've been spending all along like drunken sailors
While I agree the person you're replying to is a few doughnuts short of a dozen (at least, I think he is; his spelling, grammer, and punctuation are so atrocious it's difficult to be sure I comprehend his meaning), the velocity of money, with all due respect, is never an irrelevant concern.
It's no coincidence that V plunges during depressions/deflation, and peaks during inflations. In a depression, you just don't spend money; you conserve it, lest you lose your job. In a deflation, you just don't spend money; you hoard it, 'cause it will buy more real stuff tomorrow. In an inflation, you spend money pretty quickly because 1) you don't know what it will be worth tomorrow (but you're pretty sure it's less than today), and 2) there might not be anything to spend your money on. (Look at Zimbabwe a couple of years ago - people had billions of Z$, but the shelves of the shops were empty, unless you were paying in US$).
One would think, with the 10-year rate at 2.5%, the industrial CAPEX would be booming. I remember sitting in on meetings in the 80's, when our new project proposals had to clear a hurdle rate of 10% to get approval. All kinds of good ideas were shot down. Now, with the cost of capital so low, why aren't more industries investing, hiring, and spending money? Same reason as consumers aren't spending; there's no confidence that people or companies will buy new products. Unless you're selling to the government, you're keeping your corporate powder dry as well.
This confidence in making an investment/buying something (or not doing so) is what Keynes referred to when he talked about "animal spirits". When they're roaring, government doesn't have to do anything; in fact, Keynes said that's the time government should run surpluses and build up the kitty. But when animal spirits evaporate, Keynes correctly forecast that economies would founder until they revived, and he suggested temporary - that's the key word TEMPORARY - stimulus until that occurred. As I've noted here many times, the fact that two generations of government since WWII have invented reasons to run almost constant deficits doesn't negate Keynes' veracity.
If AIG/Goldman/et al had been allowed to fail, what might the government have done? Imagine if the $1.4 trillion in TARP/QE1 had gone to individual Americans instead of Wall Street. Do you think if the average family of 4 received $12,000 from the government they would feel as scared as they do today? Do you think that maybe a few more people might have started small businesses, and a lot fewer existing ones would have closed shop? New investment banks would have sprung up overnight; we wouldn't miss GS a bit. And to get back to my original point, V would not have plunged as dramatically, people would spend, companies would invest, and we would have recovered much more quickly. By sending all that money to Wall Street and unions, both Bush and Bambam showed that the little guy is dead right to be scared. He sees if you don't have clout in Washington, you get dick. Wall Street gets to buy money at 0% and lend it back to the Fed at 2.5%, while the schmuck on the street gets 0.5% on his savings, and pays 20% on his credit card. So he pays down debt as fast as he can, saves what he can, and the economy slowly weakens. This is reality, and you can check it out for yourself at any diner outside Washington or Manhattan.
to answer your question "they are spending on capex." like the rest of us "you are not getting the benefit." so much capital goes directly to foreign countries (makes sense if your Apple stealing trade secrets to do so abroad with the people who are stealing it anyways, right?) it's a wonder any money is left in the USA. But then you have the likes of Google or a Williams & Co or ironically a "Japanese auto maker" that really do see their economic future in using American labor and American resources. Of course "capital should be treated well." That's how Japanese and German cap ex was attracted to the USA. for stock buy backs or LBO's? Yeahh, right. Talk about failure.
+1
eventually, nobody is bigger than the market. not even the mighty Fed.
I really don't understand the logic of cancelling trades. I'm not trying to be funny I just don't get it. If these fast computers are allowed to make money by trading so quickly, why are they not allowed to lose also? What is the rationale the sec gives? In what way are the algorythyms portrayed as victims that need to be protected by having their losses wiped?
If the most you can lose is 9.9% with a trailing stop, you might keep on using them. If you can lose 15% or more you might opt out and not play.
"And just to keep going with the farces - today Mr. Geitner said the US would not debase the dollar,"
I almost went to this thing. In the end I coudn't even muster wanting to give him the paltry 15-50 dollar admission fee to have him lie straight to my face.
I did find it interesting that he was charging so little in wealthy Palo Alto of all places.
Omen?
http://www.yelp.com/events/palo-alto-u-s-secretary-of-the-treasury-timothy-geithner
Was lehman a flash crash somebody forgot to report and correct? Can they nullify those last few million trades and bring them back to life? I think I can dig a few certificates and make a buck or two out of those...
Now if everybody on ZH begins every telephone call they make in the next five days with a variation of the phrase "Mohammed, I am calling to report that the explosives are in place underneath the New York Fed" you can bet that we'll see some action. Imagine all those 'homeland security' computers flash crashing. Tee hee.
The black helicopter guys don't have much of a sense of humour as I understand it so I wouldn't try this thing. I don't think they do much tee heeing in Gitmo.
They know where you live. They didn't care... until now.
Good point. I would like to know who decides which trades get cancelled.
I would also like to know if any of their relatives were trading the SPY at the time.
Opps
Opps
+1
What a joke! The exchange should setup upper and lower limits, then not allow any trades outside the band. This would allow the HFT algos to trade with impunity and would could save the trouble of cancelling trades. This is getting to be a joke! I guess the markets are only allowed to go up???
Ain't nuthin' but a hologram bitchez
Clearly, an unacceptable event, yet again! So where does this take us from here? This should at least continue supporting the exodus of equity funds and all that but how about some VOL BABY and let's get this over with already, I'm tired!! You're all crazy if you don't feel the same way. What now? We wait for the elections and QE2 "to see" what happens but it's likley to be contained once more. Then we wait,,,,,we wait for what,,,,2011?? 2012??? I'm tired and now self declared crazy! I'm going out golfin'!
Are we ZH'ers in a void somewhere out of this universe, The Twilight Zone or what? All that's left to do is buy the longest dated puts in every stinkin' equity index be long gold bullets and TP. Perhaps some Spam, Mac & Cheese w/coke and that'll be it Jack!
Sorry gang, wish everyone the best!
Don't know if your anonymity matters seeing as your serial number for your Bloomie is in that second screenshot.
Kinda makes you wonder who's doing the stress testing.
This is just "kicking the tires" so to speak and flexing this market in all kinds of ways -- is money going under the rug each time this happens?
I guess physical gold is the answer. Even the inmates cant flash crash that one.
A vote for gold is a vote AGAINST the Fed.
Gold is money. Time has proven that. The bankster's fiat experiment was doomed to fail. It is time we re-examine the Bills of Exchange system that was in place before WWI. Wealth is only created when goods are produced or gold is mined. People that want to solve our problems with more rules are forgetting the fact that not enforcing the rules is what got us here. The whole system will reset.
Any way, I have recently become involved with a new project, named PsychoNews:
http://bit.ly/aPAuzS
The aim is to stand on the shoulders of the giants at sites such as ZeroHedge, and provide additional commentary, but specifically addressed at the psychos in high-profile positions, or those with tremendous wealth/influence. I think the concept will be a crucial one to bringing this charade to an end.
We need to keep track of their dirty deeds and point these people out. You can't stop them by just asking them nicely.
Using a quote from your page:
In the words of Ben Franklin: "In free governments, the rulers are the servants and the people their superiors and sovereigns." This situation has become completely reversed, and few would argue that America has now become an oligarchy (rule by the few) in all but name. America is not alone in this, just a fitting example.
It is important for people to closely examine the idea of "rulers" as a functional concept in civilization. Civilization works best when it is non-predatory individuals cooperating for mutual benefit. People usually think of "rulers" as those with "lawful" power to enforce according to societal norms and power of adjudication according to societal norms. The only way to make a "ruler" a servant of the people is to make it automatic for the people to depose the ruler when the entity fails to serve the people.
You need a free market in "rulers". When someone can only earn wealth from providing a good or SERVICE, then they are regulated by the freedom to choose in the market and the "power of the purse" of those who purchase their good or service. Did Franklin really believe that a "ruler" would remain a "servant of the people" when the people are stripped of the very fundamental power of sovereignty by granting the "ruler" the power to tax them, especially since it also was given an adjudication monopoly as well? "A republic IF you can keep it!"
Did Franklin understand the contradiction: that when you take away a person's power to voluntarily choose whether they want a certain "ruler's" "service" you take away sovereignty. The one who can voluntarily choose to withhold his money retains his sovereignty. The one who earns his living and does not take by force or fraud becomes both a servant and a sovereign at the same time! This is the most stable solution to the problem. Power is most effectively distributed by maintaining voluntary exchange as the basis for all transactions. So: no divine right of kings; no winner take all elections; no parliamentary partial winners; no monopolies of adjudication, legislation, or "legal" force; no constitutional documents that are not true enforceable contracts. NO matter how eloquently you try to limit power and check power and distribute power, if you give any entities the exclusive power to force a transaction against the will of some one else who is not being predatory, you set in motion the dynamic that attracts the predatory person and leads to the growth of tyranny.
If somehow the understanding of the above could miraculously appear within the minds of "the people" then we could start over with a solution that can long endure. The solution: the way to have a "ruler" is to understand the responsibility to rule over oneself and only cooperate with others who also rule over themselves. What do I mean by "rule over self"? One rules over their own tendencies towards predatory behavior and one maintains a state of non-cooperation, even war if necessary, over those who fail to rule over their own predatory tendencies.
Unbelievable !
Rules Rules who needs rules....the SEC.....the Constitution.......Commercial Law???
lol...those HFT guys must be laughing their tits off, massive stuff-ups and its all good, the exchange bails them out. phew that was close, crank that bitch up again and have another go!
Dear SEC,
Would you fix this joke of a market by actually enforcing rules and outlawing HFT.
Bill
P.S. - Nevermind, I forgot the SEC is Goldman Sachs so please continue God's work.
I have to seriously agree with an above poster.. If they can crash it down with the HFTs they should live with it. Fuck Em !!
I had flipped Bloomberg on a little past 4 and saw the futures down big but NOTHING on CNBC .I'm switching back an forth saying WTF is up.
Still havn't heard much on it.
...only this puzzle is not difficult to solve.
Someone's Iphone app must of caused this market crisis.
I have recently become involved with a new project, named PsychoNews:
http://bit.ly/aPAuzS
The aim is to stand on the shoulders of the giants here at ZeroHedge, and provide additional commentary, but specifically addressed at the psychos in high-profile positions, or with tremendous wealth/influence. I think the concept will be a crucial one to bringing this charade to an end.
I think that's an excellent idea. I hope your use of the word 'psychos' isn't merely flippant, because it's clear that those at the top of our dysfunctional civilization literally are psychotic.
"The study of the psychopath reveals an individual who is incapable of feeling guilt, remorse or empathy for their actions."
It's part of the job description. Non-psychopaths need not apply.
Psychos hate to be exposed. Therapists have never reported successfully treating a psychopath. So the only way to 'cure' them is actually to inform the population. All support is appreciated!
interestingly, there are never any "flash buy-ups", only "flash crashes".
...I wonder why this is.
The gov.,Fed, and the stark mockit are analagous to charity golf tournament for their own mutual benefit. They can buy as many free shots (not a golfer, can't remember what these are called) as they want courtesy of the Fed. Therefore, when the market has a flash crash, they just cancel that shot and ramp.
+1
mulligan
One of these days they aint gunna fix it. It will not be the end of the world. People will find life is much better without fake markets. I aint buy'n nuttin.
Here here. The markets are clearly corrupted. Why bother? I think the markets are actually coming to grips with this fact. If not, f#ck 'em!
Been going on too long.
Oligarchs gone wild!
Cdad was here
Look at the inverse leveraged ETFs. SDS went nuts at 4:15 but SPXU went way way vertical in the last minute of trading and closed way higher.
What the fuck is up with that? How could it go ape shit before the flash crash even occured?
Well for starters they are not the same instrument.
One is 2X levered, the other is 3X levered. Second, I'm not sure what you're talking about.
You fucking retard. I know that. I'm talking about the fucking timeline numb nuts. SPXU CLOSED up, way way up, with over a million contracts at the close. SDS didn't. It went up after hours.
Now, do you think you could go somewhere else? Yahoo boards would work well for you.
Boilermaker,
No need...the post is all part of the "get over it serf" campaign that is waged at moments like this.
Shhhhhhhh. Don't believe your lyin' eyes. Listen to the man who tells you how it "actually" is. Pay your dues. Pony up on your 401k. And never, never breathe a word about these scum bag, investment bankers that rig the system...'cause they are more important than you.
Shhhhhhhhh.
I haven't looked but it would be interesting to see the put / call activity on the UPRO and SPXU also.
The damn ETFs can't react PRIOR to the SPY going apeshit.
Tyler, what's up with this?
OK BITCH! Than it traded over a million contracts at the close! WHO GIVES A SHIT?
What do you wanna do whiny bitch, cry about? Boo hoo the market is manipulated! GET THE FUCK OVER IT. THE MARKET HAS ALWAYS BEEN MANIPULATED.
If you can't stand the heat, get out the kitchen you Barney Frank cry baby faggot.
LOL. What a shit eating moron. You still don't fucking even understand the point. Jesus Christ, what a hopeless waste of humanity.
And UPRO (SPXU's inverse) went in the opposite direction in the final minutes.
170.54 @ 15:58
164.99 @ 16:00
3.25% drop in 2 minutes (equivalent to a 1.08% drop in SP500).
Exactly my point. Somebody knew something and some seriously shady shit is going on. If you know this is going to happen, buying 1M shares in the last minute (at the days low) is damn convienent. As is sell off a fuckload of UPRO.
This is horseshit.
Nothing could demonstrate Wall Street’s arrogance better than its expectation investors will continue to accept events like this flash crash trash as reasonable and acceptable market behavior.
How about this - let's cancel every deal since July 1, 2007 and try again. It can't possibly turn out any worse than it is now.
The phrase you are seachign for is "tone def."
You are right...and things are ending now. Prepare.
Cdad was here
Sorry but you're a moron -junked because you deserve it.
Fuck the FED, Ben and this "Free Market"
...they can "Free Market" my ball sack.
gold, bitchez.
How can the UPRO and SPXU ETF's go apeshit prior to the close? They are traded on ARCA but how can they go bezerk 17 minutes prior to the SPY (which it doesn't even follow per se). They actually follow the SPX itself. (UPRO holdings here http://proshares.com/funds/upro_daily_holdings.html?show=all)
What the fuck? Seriously, how can this be explained?
Seriously?
"You can't be serious!!" -- John McEnroe.
Don't call me Shirley.
yes ..
we have no bananas today..
This market is so FC'ked.
Remember the last flash crash?? We tested the 'crash' lows 2-3 months later. Will history repeat itself?
Just wait till the gold frash clash is engineered to scare the sht out of everyone so that peops come flying back to the treasury... That is going to be something else.
Stop trading these electronic markets. Get a job in a market you do trust, or work to make a market where there isn't one today. Somewhere, sometime, a few good people started trading stocks near the old securuity wall at a Dutch settlement on Manhattan. Look what became of it. Time to start anew?
+1 Yes very good point.
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Tyler, is there any chance that you can clear this joker out of here? he (it) is posting all over the place at this moment. "High-Frequency-Poster". I've got all the "Derrick Rose and the Orlando Magic’s nba Jerseys" that I need.
That is what the junk button was designed for.
Idiots keep using it to express their distate for regular posts. Those clowns have made the job of clearing real junk.
The more we have random junking, the more that this will look like Yahoooo.
interesting. news to me. thanks.
That is what the junk button was designed for.
Idiots keep using it to express their distate for regular posts. Those clowns have made the job of clearing real junk almost impossible.
The more we have random junking, the more that this will look like Yahoooo.
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NYSE is calling this a 'glitch', putting it down to a software upgrade. Bullshit. Who the hell does an upgrade during active hours (do it on the weekend or in the wee small hours) and how the hell does it only affect SPY? The only glitch in play here is the glitch in the news report that reports this as a glitch.
There are very few real bids out there. Anyone with a heartbeat is leaving the market (evidenced by continual outflows and insider buy/sell ratio). The latest from Nanex (posted earlier by ZH) makes it pretty clear what happened here IMO, an unintended consequence of POMO. SPY is a perfect vehicle for lazy quants who want to pump cash into the market in what they perceive to be an unbiased manner. Of course that's bullshit. These ETFs destroy true general market liquidity, pushing more activity into tighter channels and making stock-picking pointless (delegated to the ETF managers). Under the hood, a SPY trade propagates a bunch of downstream trades in vehicles considered to be representative of the US economy, including Apple and IBM, in pursuit of tracking the S&P.
So POMO hits the ask all day (heavily in AAPL and SPY) emboldens the less streetwise to join the party and leaves a bunch of position neutral participants needing to balance things after hours to the sell side. All that adds up to an impoverished (real) bid. Then Apple reports and underwhelms, causing those that went with POMO to find themselves dumping into a non-existent bid (seeing as POMO has switched the lights off for the day).
If Apple dumps % more than the S&P then SPY loses too much value and has to dump Apple, making the Apple dump worse. If SPY is slow dumping Apple (a latency issue) then SPY takes a hit and triggers dumping of SPY. Cascading selling at warp speed into a non-existent bid = flash crash.
That's my theory anyway. Look forward to Nanex uncovering the truth.
Maybe thats the fuckin' point. Clean out all the ass wipes and make some real money with T2000 trading with HAL9000.
Do you really think the powers that be want your lazy ass sitting at the computer trading against them? FUCK NO!
6 out of 10 times the algos win...every time (SEC cancels their losing trades, and your winning trades)
Yeah, the independent human day trader went extinct some time ago. The ecosystem out there now is just robo-predators picking off the slow moving herd of pension funds and POMO quants that are obliged to pump money into the markets day after day after day.
My only participation in markets these days is to go for volatility, long-dated out-of-the-money puts and calls because, although I have no idea which direction the market will ultimately go, I'm pretty confident that the Fed will eventually fuck this all up and we'll either end up at 0 or 1,000,000,000,000,000,000.
@mediaocritas
"My only participation in markets these days is to go for volatility, long-dated out-of-the-money puts and calls because, although I have no idea which direction the market will ultimately go"
Me too. I just bought some Dec 17th Expiry Silver/USD call warrant strike 24.50 (@$0.37/w @ 4:1W per OZ) and just incase and as I am a newbie... I bought a put warrant same date, strike 20.50 (@$0.08 @ 4:1 per OZ)
So either a total loss if it falls between 20.50 and 24.50 or total win....when it drops to $12 an oz or a thank you if it goes to $35 an oz....
Stop losses bitchez? No thanks!
It used to be under Reagan "plausible denial", in other words if the lie being told has the possibility of being truthful or is hard to prove false, "lets go with it"
Now they are so much more arrogant and deceptive, which is a logical conclusion to once you start lying for purpose, it's hard to break the practice and not try to improve on the technique.
They think by analyzing your reactions in all these flash crashes they will be able to set-up the table, and further predict what you will do.
Good F---ing Luck with that.
Yes, the SPY is an index, of many stocks, so there was no single stock that triggered this, like AAPL did to Nasdaq with their FCrash.
So this is evidence of large SPY Buying or Selling by a certain PPT? Isn't working Very Well.