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SSTF - Steve Goss’s Bombshell – What Could it Mean?
I have written often on the status of SS. I also have some understanding
of illegal aliens working in the US. I have sponsored four over the
course of many years. I don’t hire them. But I pay many companies that
do. The employers know they are illegal, but the workers have SS cards
(fake) and so long as the PR taxes are collected no one seems to care.
These two interests of mine dovetail. SS has been collecting money from
illegal aliens for years. They will keep the money they have collected
and they will not pay out any benefits (except fraud) in the future. So
this money is “free”. I have often wondered how big the numbers on this
are. Now we know. The numbers are enormous. Without the Free Money coming in from illegal aliens SS would look much different than we "think" it does.
The WaPo had
an article on this today. They had hard numbers (sort of) in the
article. I was absolutely stunned that the source of this information
was Steve Goss, the chief actuary of the SSTF. Some thoughts/numbers:
-Steve Goss does not reveal information of this significance unless he
has a political agenda of his own, or he was told to. I am of the
opinion that it was the latter and the WaPo/Goss story was a way for the
Administration to get the illegal alien issue spun in a different
light. Because of high unemployment the illegal story is getting
traction and anger is boiling. What is happening in Arizona is the tip
of an anti-immigration movement that is brewing in America. This is not
healthy for society. Police profiling is not the American way. Except in
2010.
-This information is an unmitigated disaster for SS. It comes a month
after the release to Congress of their annual report that suggested that
things had actually improved for SS over the past 12 months. The report
did not highlight the fact that over $300b of assets held by the Fund
were in fact contributions from illegal aliens. As much as 13% of the
Funds holdings are tainted. Without this funny money the Fund would
today be running substantial deficits. That red ink would force major
changes in both payouts and taxes.
-Goss provided a range of the cumulative impact to SS of $120-240b (as
of 2007). He said that the overstatement was $12b in 2007. Those numbers
do no not add up in my opinion. We know that the illegal population
exploded from 2000 on. If the excess payroll income was only $12b in
2007, then it had to be a much smaller number ten-years earlier. There
is no way it could add up to Goss’s minimum number of $120b. I think
that when Goss was suggesting that the cumulative impact was 120-240b he
was implying that the range of impact for 2007 would have been $12-24
billion.
Goss said that as many as 67% of all illegals are working with either a
phony SS card or one that was no longer valid. Take this information
together with a Pew report that
put the number of illegal workers today at 11.1mm. This implies that
there are 7,400,000 illegal workers contributing to SS. Most of this
income is regular weekly pay. The average number for this in the US is
$30K. About $100 per day. That comes to a total payroll of $225 billion!
The SS tax on this is 12.4%, or $27b in just 2010. This analysis is how
Goss got to the $240b 2007 topside estimate. Add three years to that at
$25b a year plus interest on the whole nut and you get ~$350b.
I won’t (now) go into the longer-term impacts to SS of having overstated
its surplus by $350b. That number is 13.5% of the assets of the Fund. I
will say that this is a sea change event for how we look at SS. All
prior analysis and all future expectations must now be revisited. I
assure you that the results after excluding the illegal taxes will be
will prove to be a major blow to the solvency of the Fund. It will
change the debate on SS. It is that significant. Mr. Goss on this:
"If for
example we had not had other-than-legal immigrants in the country over
the past, then these numbers suggest that we would have entered
persistent shortfall of tax revenue to cover [payouts] starting [in]
2009, or six years earlier than estimated under the 2010 Trustees Report."
-We know that the actuaries at the Fund have been aware of the magnitude
of this issue for a very long time. The question I have is, “What did they do about it?” We need to understand what this means in terms of anticipated future benefit payments. There are two possibilities:
(1) The Fund knew the money was from illegal workers but chose to close
their eyes. For the purposes of calculating future liabilities they
assumed that everyone, including the illegal workers, would someday get
benefits. But they won’t. This would imply that the future liabilities
of the Fund are much smaller than has been projected. This “good” news
would have to be offset with the reality that the “true” assets of the
fund are significantly overstated.
(2) The Fund knew all along that the benefits that are associated with
these illegal receipts are never going to be paid and therefore it has
reduced the liabilities associated with this to some degree. This would
essentially make a fraud of all of the SS accounting. I doubt (hope)
that this is not the case. To restate both assets and liabilities would
create a very big credibility gap for SS.
I have said repeated that nothing happens in D.C. by chance. That every
nuance must be looked at closely. They all have meaning. In my opinion
the WaPo article shines a very bright light on SS. They have been
knowingly overstating assets and financial conditions for years. What
possible motive could be behind this Labor Day weekend bombshell? My
guess:
The Administration will use the Goss revelation to prove to the American
people that illegal workers have made a major contribution to the US
economy via the taxes they paid to SS. This will be done to blunt the
growing tide of ire among those who actually live here. There could be
another chapter to this story. It could be the ticket whereby some
illegals get legal. The cost for a Green Card would be that the
applicant would have to (among other things) agree to give up their
rights to any future SS benefits based on prior contributions made to
SS. They would be entitled to benefits based solely on what they were
taxed in future years. Any previous contributions (both employer and
worker) would be given up as a penalty. This thinking would set up the
possibility for two extraordinary outcomes.
(I) If SS eliminated the future liabilities associated with the
estimated $320b of excess contributions and they were allowed to keep
those tainted contributions SS would be transformed overnight to an
overfunded position of significant proportions. It would be so
significant that the Fund could reduce the current 12.4% PR tax by
20-30% for the next three to four years. That would have a meaningful
impact on the economy.
(II) America would get paid $350b (P+I) for allowing a significant
number of workers to become legal. Many would still gripe. But the
tradeoff of a partial tax holiday for 150mm workers and their employers
would shut down much of the opposition.
The Administration needs a win-win on the economy and immigration. Steve
Goss at the Trust Fund may have given them the opportunity to do that.
Stay tuned. It does not get much weirder than this.
Just a question. Has SS been aiding and abetting illegal workers? They
have taken in over $300b. They understood what they were doing. Without
the SS "wink and a nod" employers could not have hired them. Who’s abusing whom?
»
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Why is this a "bombshell" or even significant? $300 billion is rounding error to a trust fund that has something like $60 trillion in obligations. This story is an obvious plant for election propoganda.
There is nothing either the democrats or republicans can to do repair their horrible images. Nor can they convince voters to accept amnesty or leaving the borders wide open. Thanks to blogs like this voters are learning that gov is a swamp of corruption.
Go out and vote, but not for either democrats or republicans. We need a few more parties. Support them so their numbers grow. Throw ALL the bums out.
lol...this is not a bombshell. Under the radar maybe, but not a bombshell.
by gs_runsthiscountryon Thu, 08/12/2010 - 11:45
#518130
The fact of the matter is many of those aliens you speak of, many of them, sometimes upwards of 6-7 work off the same SS#. So, a large proportion of those will never collect on programs their labor is paying for. That bankrupt, IOU ridden, congressional slush fund is being propped up for millions for retires, on the backs of Hispanic slave labor.
Whether anyone wants to know the facts and deal with them is another matter.
------------
by gs_runsthiscountryon Thu, 08/12/2010 - 12:09
#518205
I agree something needs to be done. Actually, I agreed something needed to be done 20 years ago. An there in lies the problem. Upwards of 20 million illegal immigrants didn't get here overnight, and no one did anything about it. Now, you have a conundrum, politically speaking.
Why? Because, for example, in my state all it takes to go vote is an envelope with your name and address on it, to verify where you live. You don't even need a drivers license. As a matter of fact, you dont even need that envelope unless you switched voting wards. Understand? These immigrants get to vote. Now, how do you think state and local politicians react to that while running a campaign? Say your district is 30-50% Hispanic?
The whole issue of voter fraud is in a dark room somewhere. Nothing has been done for years because they are votes.
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/will-onslaught-baby-boomers-further-exa...
Amnesty at any cost, for the future of The Party. Its the only chance O and the gang have in 2016.
If you believe "official numbers" from the Obama administration, published in the WaPO and the NYT during an election year, you have to be nothing but a stupid fool.
No praise for this information; the term useful idiot clearly applies. How can such info be put forth without first analysis of costs vs benefits. Since there is no social security fund anyway as benefits are paid out of general fund, excess taxes collected on social security served only to make a case for Bush's tax cuts for the rich.
Ahhh, America the Beautiful...when you're running out of ways in which to fleece your own citizens, you might as well start fleecing non-citizens as well. Besides, let's not forget that the surpluses that were run by SS for so long were "borrowed" by various agencies. Anything that they can do to allow for more theft from such a ripe pot can and will be employed. What a fucking racket.
The elites from both parties have fostered illegal immigration not since 2000, but since the 1980's. Both parties are more than willing to grant some form of amnesty going forward. Hence, this 'stolen' money can possibly and likely be a fraction of the benefits that will be paid out to those who benefit from amnesty.
Bruce,
Another possibility - there was a movement not too long ago to pay SS benefits to workers that used fake SS cards.
This did give me a laugh though - oh, you said HARD estimates!
These numbers from SS are hard estimates.
I have but one thing to say about this HORSESHIT.
Since 1973, the USA Murder, Inc Sqads(all for mammon, and ethnic cleansing,Blacks mostly), over 50 million babies have been murdered in the womb.
Add that since 1973, they would have produced another 2-3 generations, a rough guessimate is add 10-20 million more Americans as these aborted grew to adulthood, married,and had the 1.2 kids.
So,what have THEY done?.............we have LOST roughly 65-75 Million TAXPAYERS,SS/MC/MC adding workers, and contributors to our society.
In case there are some fools here ( and not many,I'm sure), you can easily see WHY the illegal issue has NOT een addresed.
We are, and have been at ZPG, (Negative even, for years.)
So, I would wager almost any bet, that all illegals will be allowed citizenship.
We MUST not allow the death of the Republic due to the Rome Syndrome.
Bottom line it's all about money.Of course our illustrious euthanists( Ms. Sangers plan), did not think far enough ahead to see what position they were putting us ALL in, when this law was passed.
50-75yrs ago, this might have been about lettuce, and crop pickers cheap labor...................it's no longer the case.
I thought the point of this article was "why is Wall Street still dead meat even after the bailout"? Social Security or any other "government plan" in no way benefits "the financiers." anyone arguing otherwise is being ridiculous. in short "we're sorry for again destroying your City of 8 million but, hey, you keep electing us." Leaving aside the fact that the vast majority of not only Americans but the world lives in an urban space i think it goes a long way towards showing the insanity of pretty much all nations. This is no "stealing for an elite" but in actuality "stealing from God." The irony of course is that "governments don't think land matters." Meanwhile the price of every agricultural commodity produced in "lazy USA" continues to soar. in short "I don't believe in conspriracy theories vis a vis this government because the purpose seems lost on everyone."
of course if the illegals were routed and ousted, the inflow to social security would still be roughly the same, as citizens would reclaim those jobs. the only ss bonus from illegals is the lack of future liabilities for them. this savings is more than offset by their current social services cost they consume.
Just re-read the title of this article.
It means you have been played, Bruce.
I think Bruce is far too venal to be played.
I think Bruce just plays along.....
Bruce,
Do you really think the appearance of this article was a coincidence?
This is part of a concerted effort (been seeing a lot of articles about what a great boon to the economy illegals are) to spin this issue.
These may be a little truth to this (I personally doubt that on net it is) but what part of illegal don't you get.
By the way: It is only "profiling" if you harass innocent people. Otherwise it just common sense police work.
Illegals (and Chinese slave labor) are great for some businesses and even good for people like us (well off professionals) but they are destroying the American dream for anyone not blessed with above average IQ and an opportunity for a good education.
You seem to be an intelligent guy. Don't be a tool. Obama and his handlers don't care about any of this. They just the illegals' votes to keep their grip on power.
This is the action of a desparate administration facing complete and total rejection by the electorate. Rather than enforce the law, this narcissist invited the head of another country to speak to Congress to criticize one of the states of the union. This just after Amnesty International had published a report critical of the atrocities perpetrated in Mexico, atrocities purpetrated sometimes with the assistance of the Mexican authorities. Nevermind that the Mexican law, like the United States law, allows federal officals to question anyone about their status, regardless of any prior legal cause, something that the Arizona law specifically prohibits. Add to that the flimsy and fraudulent methodology in the SS 'issue', and you have the work of a craven crew of community organizers who have pirated the ship.
Mr. Whitney, you speaketh truth and brilliantly so!
It is one presumes a complete and total Wall Street lackey to do.
Obama, if nothing else, is the quintessential Wall Street running dog lackey.
(As those NVA used to prattle on about over Radio Hanoi on those long nights standing watch and listening to their monotonous droning.)
An astonishingly thorough piece of journalism that seems to both motivationally and mathematically make sense.
Amazing how your IRS and our Inland Revenue have millions of drones penny-pinching over nickles and dimes, but almost as many putting their telescopes to the wrong eye when it's in their favour. Were either of these organisations private firms, they would've been imprisoned for fraud years ago. Chiefly because they wouldn't be called Goldman Sachs.
In my own slightly eccentric and satirical way, I think we should tax behaviour, not income.
http://nbyslog.blogspot.com/2010/04/tax-to-each-according-to-his-means.html
Funny. When it comes to economic issues most here immediately say "scam, set-up job, manipulated, hyperinflation is coming and Gold bitchez" etc. In other words, nobody really discusses the internal workings of it because they believe/realize certain things.
It is amazing to me that you are discussing the internal workings of this. The truth is simple: This is yet another topic purposely covered in about 25 layers of bullshit to purposely keep your "eye off the ball."
...but didn't I read articles a few decades ago about US workers from other countries including Mexico and who knows where getting social security checks from Washington?
I'm sure I did. So benefits ARE paid out, whether they were collected or ... not (how do we know they were?).
This is simple shit:
deport all illegals and seal the border. The ends do not justify the means, ever.
If we see that we need a higher immigrant population, then we conduct systematic reform and change the legal immigration pathway so that these jobs out there that supposedly can't or won't be done by Americans can be filled.
But, the immigration policies pushed by big business, H1 and illegals, exist to union bust, wage compress, and essentially drive business profits, which translate into executive bonuses.
If the cost-savings from employing non-permanent (illegal or visa) workers was being passed onto the "public" in the form of dividends, you could make the case that there is some "public" benefit being derived from the present situation. But the truth is that the vast majority sees NO benefit. Only the executive class does, as they place business profits into their own pockets.
Supposed propping-up of the SSTF is bullshit; that money goes to fund wars and imperial spending, corruption, graft, waste, and fraud. Government receipts don't translate into a better society and we cannot vicariously impute a benefit to "the people" when an agency of the government receives a putative fiscal boost.
All this means is that the entire system is lying to itself and us. If we are truly funding our government on the backs of exploited workers, then this simply underscores the need for fundamental reform.
Give us your poor, give us your hungry, give us your armed and dangerous.
http://www.lapdonline.org/all_most_wanted
"I had a dream once that was Rome".
this argument will only play with the liberal fruit cakes and those benefiting from the southern invasion
SS is insolvent because you have a bunch of crooks who run it and want to do away with it; SS is just another tentacle of the squid financial security Utopian wealth transfer from workers/owners to the state
Nice try Bruce, but who gives at rats ass that these people paid into the ponzi
this will be a great wedge issue for the politicos for their evolving total control system
This tradition is decades old already, Obama's administration is just the first (that I know of) to talk openly about it. Federal, state and local governments have all long been complicit in illegal immigration, including Arizona. Nobody anywhere in the US is seriously trying to stop employment of illegal immigrants.
We don't care if you work here...it's the trying to live here we despise?
Don't worry, they'll go to Canada once you're done turning the US into Mexico.
Obama has been successful in a few areas. He has polarized the American public,made puppets of the media,an easy task, and let it be known that he is a consummate liar,who cannot be believed. Thus, he has virtually committed suicide.
I think you mean Dick Armey, dickhead.
Thanks for all the comments. Clearly this is an emotive topic. I was blown out by this. I knew that SS was collecting money but I did not think it would be north of 1/4 Trillion!! This is nuts. It never should have gotten this far.
There seems to be some doubt that illegal workers could have contributed so much. That is wrong. These numbers from SS are hard estimates. My guess is that inside SS they have a "book" that follows this. It is just a joke.
Some have read my words to suggest that I am supportive of illegals. I am. I helped a few to get legal. I did that because it was the right thing to do. I believe they do not belong here unless the are supposed to be. The ones I helped are all paying their taxes and staying out of jail like most of the rest of us. I don't condone this problem.
SS are not saps. They must have gotten the Okay on this a long time ago. About ten years is my guess. About 2000.........
"I believe they do not belong here unless they are supposed to be."
This comment is immeasurably idiotic. You must be an idiot.
and that statement "I don't condone this problem." which problem is that - the one where you encourage illegal immigration by your words and deeds, against the law-proclaimed will of your fellow citizens? you're bordering on traitorous. then your immature reference to the Bush years"About 2000..." shows whose nose your ass is up. propagandist asshole!
I believe the general consensus is that Bruce has always been an idiot.
I agree; the only way to prevent and eliminate what has become institutional exploitation is through fundamental reform of the system. The devil on that is, however, in the details.
I reckon that few have an issue with largescale immigration; but the porosity of the border makes influx of criminals highly likely and the enforcement arm looks the other way because the majority of illegals are not criminals and because vested business interests derive profit while passing cost onto society. THIS is our national model - privatized profits, socialized losses.There seems to be some doubt that illegal workers could have contributed so much. That is wrong. These numbers from SS are hard estimates.
You may be correct, but how will you or anyone else ever prove it? On the other hand, the SSA could be lying and who would be able to ever prove that? As I asked above, is the SSA going to prove it is correct by releasing a list of invalid SSNs that it processed with payments attached - thereby proving it's incompetence? We won't ever know that they are correct until such a list is released. It's a catch 22 that won't be resolved in joe6pack's favor (in terms of joe being convinced of whatever is true). It makes more sense to believe that the politicians and the SSA are lying, for whatever reason. Claiming that the illegals are being cheated out of Social Security money so we should make recompense by granting them legal status might be a good reason for lying about this issue. Who can ever prove whether it's true or not?
I have news everyone, these kinds of payments (social benefit funds) are made by expat Americans working all over the world.
Bruce,
While I commend You for being honest as to Your viewpoint and open about Your support for Foreign Lawbreakers; You are willfully ignoring a host of issues.
While these fraudulent payments to the SSTF might be a solace to the Liars in charge of the empty lock box; the SSTF isn't all there is to the Immigrant Issue.
You are ingnoring the costs associated with Illegals such as Education, Health Care, Legal, Criminal Incarceration, and Social Programs Spending.
All that aside, there is also an issue which gets little attention which I would like to bring up for Your moral consideration. -& please don't shut down on Me here at the first few lines as I'm going to make a point that is seldom made...
The Illegals are Law Breakers by definition.
When this fact is brought up invariably a counter argument for is posed:
-A reasoned and compassionate ( even Christian ) Society should engender pity and exorcise lenience where People Who have made mistakes are concerned.
-These People, and Their Families with Them; should not be subject to such punishment or be shut out of Our Society for the Illegal Acts They have committed.
-The penalties are simply too harsh for these acts though prohibited.
-The Laws are unjust and should be changed.
Our Society IS in fact just such a Society of lenience towards the Illegal Immigrant; this has been effectively proven by Amnesty in the past.
But, where I ask; -is the Amnesty for American Citizens?
While Millions of Illegals have already been graced with the kindness of an Amnesty despite their Criminal Acts; there are Millions of American Citizens Who have had no such leniency extended to Them.
These Criminals are no less deserving of a grant of clemency from this Society.
Our Fellow Citizens and Their Families are no less human and experince unhappiness and insecurity just as do the Illegal Aliens and their Families when the Law is enforced and punishement is meted out for Their Crimes.
If the Laws of the Nation are to be suspended or amended, and if clemency and Amnesty to be summarily granted; -it is My opinion that it is not the Illegal Aliens that should be the granted Amnesty at this time, as such has already been granted to Them in Our recent history.
If it is time to be generous and forgiving and lenient, if it is time to grant clemency and Amnesty, if it is time to heal wounds in Our Society and unite Families; then it is time to do so for AMERICANS Who have committed petty and consensual Crimes, and not Aliens.
I had hopes when Barack Obama was Elected.
One of them was for an Amnesty; -just not the Amnesty that Everyone Else seemed so intent upon.
I had a fleeting hope that the same kindness that has already been generously granted once to Foreigners would be granted to Our Fellow Citizens.
I hoped that bankruptcy provisions might be extend to those with debts such as those for Eductaion which are not presently.
I hoped that a great many consensual Crimes that harm no One might be forgiven.
I hoped that Young Fools in Love would no longer be stigmatized and punished for Their consensual passions.
I hoped that Obama might have the courage to decriminalize Marihuana; and wipe out a significant portion of the violent drug trade and diminish the violence and fear associated with it.
I hoped for the new domestic industries born from decriminalizing hemp: fuels and textiles and medical drugs, and Yes; offering safe regulated taxed use of Marihuana for the purpose relaxation as well...
I conceived of the African American Community's joy and gratitude towards the Country for choosing to trust such a Man as would bravely commit Our Society to such a compassionate course as Amnesty for Americans as it would effect Their Families and Communites so keenly.
-So very many in Prison for petty drug Crimes and other petty Crimes are African Americans.
I hoped for a few anxious weeks that a great many unhappy Souls would be freed from their incarceration and bondage.
Yes. -I thought for a reckless foolish time that Obama would seize the opportunity to set many of Our Citizens free.
I hoped for Lives rebuilt and Families Reunited; American Lives and American Families.
I hoped that instead of expending Our wealth on punitive measures against Our Fellows, We would prove Our compassion to Each Other and Ourselves buy choosing to council and rehabilitate and educate and encourage -& forgive Our own Fellow Citizens.
I heard all too often the clamour for Amnesty for Illegal Aliens; but, what I really wanted to believe was that We Americans could be brave and kind to Our Own before Others for a change.
Barack Obama took His Oath of Office on the Lincoln Bible; -and My hope was immense.
But, the My hope faded with the exuberance of the Inauguration.
Lincoln's Bible was put away and Lincolns's grand Legacy of Freedom and Compassion were put away with it.
The Illegal Aliens have been granted Amnesty once in My lifetime already.
Pardon Me, but; they have had a turn and Our Own People have not.
As painful as it will be for some to hear it: I would put them aside at this time to grant leneiency and provide attention to Our Own Citizens, as I do firmly believe that it is time for compassion to be shown to Our Own People.
I do want an Amnesty very much, Bruce; -an Amnesty for American Citiznes.
Raise Your voice with Me for Your Fellow Countrymen if You are truly as forgiving and compassionate as You portray Yourself.
"Barack Obama: LET OUR PEOPLE GO."
Follow the money. No society has ever flourished without slaves. Although not all slaves have gone by the name of slaves, they have been slaves nevertheless. How is being compassionate and freeing petty theives from jail going to keep the price of food down?
The action has always been, and will always be, in the area where we can lower the costs of production. Nice presentation Throxx. But it doesn't do a thing for lowering the cost of production. It will be ignored.
Clearly you once had a Dream.
A dream.
No reality in dreams.
They are dreams.
No dreams -> psychosis.
-
What a bunch of crap.
The money illegals drain from the economy in social services, schools, hostpitals, sewage, crime, police, scavenging of wages and jobs is 100 times greater than any contribution to the SS "fund".
Tripe, scrambled pig brains, moral relativism blended with euphoria Koolaid fantasy pumping.
Illegals are allowed in the country for cheap (slave) labor, votes, and church memberships.
Come legally and invest in owning a home or stay at home for Christ's sake.
How much do they make for El Hefe, puta?
Respond and debate rather than flagging as junk chicken shit.
other than legal immigrants.
obama cannot even let his team call them illegal aliens. he is killing america from within and the american people dont even care. These other than legal immigrants are future democrat voters, afterall. and they will kill off the white race in america over time. which is what obama and his mentor jeramiah wright dream of, isnt it?
ID/SS fraud has always been and probably always will be a problem. Over many years I've contributed to this little jewel SS. It has been made clear that the SS tax YOU pay is being properly credited to YOU. It's not their problem if you pay all your life into someone elses credit.
There is supposed to be an employer/SS# cross check. Some employers have told me of being notified by SS that a payroll employee name/SS# don't match. However the notice goes further by saying no action is required because this may just be a record error. So notice is made of discrepancy and we're done. Why not? The SSTF still gets the funds, the employer is abiding by the rules and everyone is happy, except the SS taxpayer.
I'll go one step further than Bruce and say there is massive fraud in the whole SSTF system and heretofore have not even mentioned illegal immigrant.
Bruce,
I hate to break it to you, but the numbers are too high.
I work in the welfare office (As I have stated before), in California. Roughly 70+% of the illegals that come in work under the table. These illegals have a taxpayer identification number that they obtain from the IRS specifically for getting a tax return at the end of the year. They will claim whatever income will give them the most return based on the number of children that they have. Most of them receive ~$4000 back in February-April. None of them are working at $50,000+ a year jobs to pay that much into Social Security or Medicare.
For the Social Security number that they give to an employer (The ~30% that get a paycheck and not cash) is either made up, stolen from someone, or belongs to one of their children, or in a small number of cases, the illegal was here long enough to obtain a valid Social Security Number for themselves (In the 80s), but either did not apply for amnesty or let their amnesty LPR (Legal Permanent Resident) card expire and have not renewed it. I receive IEVS (Income and Eligibility Verification System) reports all the time that show newborns with earnings from up to two years prior to their quarter of birth. Heck, a few months ago I saw an IEVS for a child born in May 2010 that had 12 different persons using their Social Security Number from 2009-Current and this newborn was averaging about $28,000 per quarter in earnings... for the full year prior to their birth.
Oh, and while they report enough money to max out their Federal Income tax return, they are claiming a MUCH lower amount each quarter on their QR7 (Quarterly Report of Changes) to also max out their CalWORKs (TANF Transistional Assistance for Needy Families) and Food Stamps (SNAP Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program) benefits.
Oh, and at least in California they are also eligible to Restricted Medi-Cal (Medicaid) benefits. Restricted means it only pays for Emergency or Pregnancy related benefits. But it pays EVERY LAST DIME OF CHARGES FOR THOSE TWO CATEGORIES. Hell, this reason alone is enough for illegals to come to California to give birth - its free. It is also the reason that an illegal will go to the emergency room for any medical condition. And if for some reason Medi-Cal wont pay for a portion of the emergency room visit, well, they just dissappear into no where and the hospitals eat that cost.
So, I hate to say it, but while the illegals may be helping to prop up the Social Security Ponzi for a little while, the costs that they incur throughout the rest of society more than offset that benefit.
Oh and a funny little aside, in one of the town in the county I live in we have a White Supremesist (sp) who is running for a position on a school board... the problem with that is is the school district that he is running for a seat on has a 99% black and hispanic population...
Mucho thanx, Lonewar, for adding to facts to a mostly factless blog posting.
Most of the Illegals work under a 1099 which does not require a SSN withold. They are all considered "subcontract labor" in that situation. It is Illegalm but so is hiring them in the first place. Otherwise most of the construction, landscaping, general labor, day labor,and eating establishments pay "cash" and thjere is no witholding.
SO the number is actually much larget the number "here working". IF $300 Billion is in the coffers, that is only the ones witholding, and does not include the 1099s and the cash paid workers.
12-20 million my ass, try 40 million.
If it's that easy to avoid taxes then we should all be doing it.
But it's not. Companies don't like to pay cash and they can't just 1099 everyone. Why not? Because when a company pays cash it reduces their expenses and increases paper profits - and then they have to pay tax on 'profits' that don't really exist. If a company 1099's everyone it draws attention from many three-letter agencies - attention no one wants. No, if it were that simple then many companies would do the same for their 'legal' employees.
I don't buy your hypothesis. Is there any hard evidence that illegal immigrants are bigger tax cheats than US citizens? I want to know how they do it, if they are so good at gaming the tax system.
If a company can tell a person when and where to show up for work, they cannot give that person a 1099. That person is considered an employee by the IRS. That is the standard.
Most of them work under the table, because their boss' accountant likes it that way.