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SSTF - Steve Goss’s Bombshell – What Could it Mean?
I have written often on the status of SS. I also have some understanding
of illegal aliens working in the US. I have sponsored four over the
course of many years. I don’t hire them. But I pay many companies that
do. The employers know they are illegal, but the workers have SS cards
(fake) and so long as the PR taxes are collected no one seems to care.
These two interests of mine dovetail. SS has been collecting money from
illegal aliens for years. They will keep the money they have collected
and they will not pay out any benefits (except fraud) in the future. So
this money is “free”. I have often wondered how big the numbers on this
are. Now we know. The numbers are enormous. Without the Free Money coming in from illegal aliens SS would look much different than we "think" it does.
The WaPo had
an article on this today. They had hard numbers (sort of) in the
article. I was absolutely stunned that the source of this information
was Steve Goss, the chief actuary of the SSTF. Some thoughts/numbers:
-Steve Goss does not reveal information of this significance unless he
has a political agenda of his own, or he was told to. I am of the
opinion that it was the latter and the WaPo/Goss story was a way for the
Administration to get the illegal alien issue spun in a different
light. Because of high unemployment the illegal story is getting
traction and anger is boiling. What is happening in Arizona is the tip
of an anti-immigration movement that is brewing in America. This is not
healthy for society. Police profiling is not the American way. Except in
2010.
-This information is an unmitigated disaster for SS. It comes a month
after the release to Congress of their annual report that suggested that
things had actually improved for SS over the past 12 months. The report
did not highlight the fact that over $300b of assets held by the Fund
were in fact contributions from illegal aliens. As much as 13% of the
Funds holdings are tainted. Without this funny money the Fund would
today be running substantial deficits. That red ink would force major
changes in both payouts and taxes.
-Goss provided a range of the cumulative impact to SS of $120-240b (as
of 2007). He said that the overstatement was $12b in 2007. Those numbers
do no not add up in my opinion. We know that the illegal population
exploded from 2000 on. If the excess payroll income was only $12b in
2007, then it had to be a much smaller number ten-years earlier. There
is no way it could add up to Goss’s minimum number of $120b. I think
that when Goss was suggesting that the cumulative impact was 120-240b he
was implying that the range of impact for 2007 would have been $12-24
billion.
Goss said that as many as 67% of all illegals are working with either a
phony SS card or one that was no longer valid. Take this information
together with a Pew report that
put the number of illegal workers today at 11.1mm. This implies that
there are 7,400,000 illegal workers contributing to SS. Most of this
income is regular weekly pay. The average number for this in the US is
$30K. About $100 per day. That comes to a total payroll of $225 billion!
The SS tax on this is 12.4%, or $27b in just 2010. This analysis is how
Goss got to the $240b 2007 topside estimate. Add three years to that at
$25b a year plus interest on the whole nut and you get ~$350b.
I won’t (now) go into the longer-term impacts to SS of having overstated
its surplus by $350b. That number is 13.5% of the assets of the Fund. I
will say that this is a sea change event for how we look at SS. All
prior analysis and all future expectations must now be revisited. I
assure you that the results after excluding the illegal taxes will be
will prove to be a major blow to the solvency of the Fund. It will
change the debate on SS. It is that significant. Mr. Goss on this:
"If for
example we had not had other-than-legal immigrants in the country over
the past, then these numbers suggest that we would have entered
persistent shortfall of tax revenue to cover [payouts] starting [in]
2009, or six years earlier than estimated under the 2010 Trustees Report."
-We know that the actuaries at the Fund have been aware of the magnitude
of this issue for a very long time. The question I have is, “What did they do about it?” We need to understand what this means in terms of anticipated future benefit payments. There are two possibilities:
(1) The Fund knew the money was from illegal workers but chose to close
their eyes. For the purposes of calculating future liabilities they
assumed that everyone, including the illegal workers, would someday get
benefits. But they won’t. This would imply that the future liabilities
of the Fund are much smaller than has been projected. This “good” news
would have to be offset with the reality that the “true” assets of the
fund are significantly overstated.
(2) The Fund knew all along that the benefits that are associated with
these illegal receipts are never going to be paid and therefore it has
reduced the liabilities associated with this to some degree. This would
essentially make a fraud of all of the SS accounting. I doubt (hope)
that this is not the case. To restate both assets and liabilities would
create a very big credibility gap for SS.
I have said repeated that nothing happens in D.C. by chance. That every
nuance must be looked at closely. They all have meaning. In my opinion
the WaPo article shines a very bright light on SS. They have been
knowingly overstating assets and financial conditions for years. What
possible motive could be behind this Labor Day weekend bombshell? My
guess:
The Administration will use the Goss revelation to prove to the American
people that illegal workers have made a major contribution to the US
economy via the taxes they paid to SS. This will be done to blunt the
growing tide of ire among those who actually live here. There could be
another chapter to this story. It could be the ticket whereby some
illegals get legal. The cost for a Green Card would be that the
applicant would have to (among other things) agree to give up their
rights to any future SS benefits based on prior contributions made to
SS. They would be entitled to benefits based solely on what they were
taxed in future years. Any previous contributions (both employer and
worker) would be given up as a penalty. This thinking would set up the
possibility for two extraordinary outcomes.
(I) If SS eliminated the future liabilities associated with the
estimated $320b of excess contributions and they were allowed to keep
those tainted contributions SS would be transformed overnight to an
overfunded position of significant proportions. It would be so
significant that the Fund could reduce the current 12.4% PR tax by
20-30% for the next three to four years. That would have a meaningful
impact on the economy.
(II) America would get paid $350b (P+I) for allowing a significant
number of workers to become legal. Many would still gripe. But the
tradeoff of a partial tax holiday for 150mm workers and their employers
would shut down much of the opposition.
The Administration needs a win-win on the economy and immigration. Steve
Goss at the Trust Fund may have given them the opportunity to do that.
Stay tuned. It does not get much weirder than this.
Just a question. Has SS been aiding and abetting illegal workers? They
have taken in over $300b. They understood what they were doing. Without
the SS "wink and a nod" employers could not have hired them. Who’s abusing whom?
»
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This whole SS issue is parallel to the issue I believe is the 10-trillion-ton gorilla: underfunded pensions.
When the rank'n'file begin to understand that 80%+ of the pensions out there (90%+?) will not be able to deliver on their promises, IMO that's when we're in the countdown to SHTF.
Just one man's opinion/nightmare...coming soon to a Defined-Benefit Plan near you...
And the tell will come when well connected insiders have their pension benefits commuted for a cash sum due to a "personal emergency".
I'd love to think I could see the Uber-Tell when it came (meaning I'd have 12 hours/24 hours/4 days to get my endgame plan in action before the S well and truly HTF)...
But that'd make me some kinda endgame superhero. And I'm just a forward-thinking average dude...
I think I feel a stinky breeze on my face.
I don't see the issue here. The money was paid to the SS. It's a tax. It goes into the pool.
It was legally collected for the purpose intended. People who lied to the SS about their eligibility just won't collect benefits. Where's the problem?
The numbers add up the same unless we suddenly decide that since the money was collected improperly, it should be wasted improperly by tossing it back into the general fund. And THAT would be fraud as usual.
Distract the victim while you steal his wallet. That's what this entire exercise smells like to me. In reality, there's absolutely no problem unless we change policies for "the public good."
I don't see the issue here. The money was paid to the SS. It's a tax. It goes into the pool.
The issue is this: Joe6Pack can neither prove nor disprove that millions of illegal immigrants are paying into the Social Security system. So a politician can push the story that they are, for his own reasons, without anyone being able to challenge him. Is the SSA going to supply a list of illegitimate SSNs to the New York Times to back up the politician's story - and thus implicate themselves for not monitoring SSNs properly? My personal belief is that someone is generating a story, for their own reasons, that is probably not true. As I've stated upthread, for this story to be true, millions of Americans would have to have failed to report that their loved one died, or the SSA would have to be ignoring millions of SSNs coming through that their own records show they have not yet issued (the out-of-sequence problem). I don't buy this story on the scale of millions. On the scale of a few slipping through the cracks, probably.
"My personal belief is that someone is generating a story, for their own reasons, that is probably not true."
God bless you, RichardP, that is always the case.
Whether its a phony and faked Pew Center crapola story, an "officially designated liberal" fact-finding center, which always conveniently finds "facts" which will then be used against authentic liberals, dems, and progressives, or its one of the multitude of astro-turf firms, think tanks, foundations, trusts, centers, fake wire services, ad infinitum, owned by either David Koch or Peter G. Peterson which barfs up endless phony nonsense nonissues, which are then churned over and over by the five or six Corporations which control all the news -- and have interlocking directorates with Peterson's and Koch's varied financial interests -- it is all an illusion.
People, listen the highly intelligent RichardP, and don't fall for all this bullcrap!
Careful there Sarge. You're setting me up to be a target.
Uh...they can (re)use a live person's SSN...happens every day.
I understand the issue of I.D. theft. But we are talking about using the SSN to pay into the SSA system. They would be crediting the monies to two differenct accounts with the same SSN. The SSA would catch that and stop it pretty quickly.
Let's take this line of thought a step further.
No employer reports withholding for an illegal, thereby reporting that he has employed illegals, for which he has not a SSN and, to pay such withholding would only increase his cost of doing business.
This dog don't hunt.
Is it thus meant to conclude that the supposed contributions by illegals (which probably do not happen) are thus
-good for the SSTF
-good for the economy
-funds that only real SSN holders ever get back
In other word, illegal workers are good?
And thus, is this another supposed justification for illegal workers in the US who, later on can be "legalized" under a variety of amnesty or other programs potentially enfranchising an enormous role of new Democratic voters?
Propaganda, Deluxe.
Mable, get the popcorn a popin'......
Fuckin eh' bubba. That's what it means.
And if it wasn't actually paid by the 'illegals' then it wasn't actually collected and isn't included in this thought experiment.
It gets collected at the state and local level in sales taxes. Not too many illegals buying trees of CDs with their home depot dayworker jacksons.
Employer does not KNOW employee is illegal.
If employer does not remit witholding, he has committed serious crime - IRS has no sense of humor in these cases . And if it's under the table, kinda hard for employer to claim income tax deduction.
Bullshit.
The employer knows perfectly well that these people are illegals.
Guess where a lot of illegals get their fake papers?
I'll give you a hint: The same fake numbers are used again and again at the same company by different people.
Anyone who thinks that Republicans actually want to throw illegals out is a fool. Employing Illegal immigrants is clearly one of the most profitable illegal businesses in America - and certainly the most mainstream. Business people - like the author - seem to see nothing wrong with businesses breaking the law for a buck.
Illegal immigrants are poor people (by and large) if they couldn't get jobs here, they wouldn't come here. If they get jobs here it's because business owners find it proftable to hire them.
Follow the money.
And if an employer refused to hire people he thought were illegal then what?
He'd get his ass sued for violating someone's 'human rights'!
If an employer reported potential illegals to INS then what?
Nothing.
Employers have no reason to give out fake papers to anyone. I didn't do that, but had people showing up all the time with the same names and SSN's. Don't know where the got them - and didn't care.
It's real easy to blame the employers - but complying with the letter or the law is pretty simple (if a pain in the ass at times) and the illegals are good at getting their own fake documents.
I had a concrete company at one time. Was there a sign on my building saying 'Immigration Enforcement'? Was there? No. You know why? Cause immigration enforcement wasn't my fucking business!
There's apparently only one entity that is empowered to enforce immigration laws - our wonder boys in DC - and they are not doing it (though they will bring all their power to bear on anyone else that tries to apply the law).
Cause immigration enforcement wasn't my fucking business!
We are all in this together, and we could all be part of the solution. That attitude worked for the founding fathers. But now, we pass the buck on enforcing our national character - which explains a large part of why were are in the mess we are in. We can't have the country we were meant to be unless everybody understands that it is his civic duty to enforce the standards that have been adopted by our country. Society collapses when it is always somebody else's responsibility. That is probably why societies have a natural limit to growth.
Here in Socal, La Migra stands in the middle of traffric on I-5 and sometimes on I-15 and slows everyone down while parking lots throughout the region are overrun with illegal daylaborers. So much for enforcement.
This comment just destroyed all your previous comments.
Thanks for clarifying everything.
Back in the day, some 20+ years ago, an employer I knew would send in quarterly payroll tax returns. After some time, they'd get a flood of notices from the authorities saying, "123-45-6789 is not the SSN for Manuel Garcia" -- and the employer would go out onto the shop floor and read 'em off, to a bunch of hoots and hollers. A couple of days later, all of the people who had been called would say, "oh, sorry -- it's 321-54-9876 -- here's a copy of my ID card and SS card."
Every quarter.
Technical question....
A "contribution" to the SSTF is made through withholding, right?
For withholding to take place, the payer and or payee must fill in an IRS form which includes the tax ID/SSN of the payer and the SSN of the payee, right?
Well, how does an illegal manage to get a SSN and have reporting done to the IRS and remain an "illegal"?
Most of the "illegals" out there in the Winter Home of the Great Satan (CA) get paid in cash (aka underground economy) wherein no reporting nor withholding takes place.
What am I missing?
Love,
Curious
I'm in California.
What I think happens is that the employee gives an SSN to the employer, who then (hopefully) makes the appropriate payments to IRS and SSTF.
Where does this number come from? There is a cottage industry in phony documents, some may go to this trouble, but the employer is not. as I understand it, obligated to investigate whether or not the SSN is accurate. So I expect many just make up a number, they'll probably be working somewhere else by the time anybody questions it.
Yes there is a cash market for labor, no papers asked or offered, but I would guess that it's a small proportion maybe 10%.
always enjoy your contributions,
Love Gromit.
... the employer is not, as I understand it, obligated to investigate whether or not the SSN is accurate.
It has been against the law for some time now to hire an illegal immigrant. Employers are obligated to ensure that their employees are legal. That is not the same as being obligated to verify that the SSN is valid - but verifying that the SSN is valid is a quick way of checking on whether the employee is legal. There has been a website available for some time now for employers to check whether a SSN is valid. The reponse time for validating the SSN is very quick.
The fact that the SSA responds quickly on a request to validate a SSN is part of what leads me to question the story upthread here that millions of illegitimate SSNs are transmitting monies into the Social Security System. The SSA can identify a bad SSN almost instantaneously. How, then, would millions of bad SSNs pass through undetected to deposit funds? Couple that with the point that has been made elsewhere - most illegal immigrants work for cash. Do we seriously think that there are millions of illegals legitimately on the payrolls, having Fed, State, Local, and SSA taxes withheld?
Finally, for those companies who know they have illegally placed illegal immigrants on the payroll, why would they implicate themselves by forwarding any withheld monies to the appropriate destinations? Seems more likely they would simply keep the money for themselves. (Edit: Didn't see that knuckles already said this same thing below here.)
It has been a couple of years since I hired anyone, and the law may have changed a bit, but this wasn't the case then, and I suspect is not the case now.
I had to collect certain documents that are supposed to demonstrate that the employee was legal. As an employer I had no idea if the documents were legit or not. Sometimes I'd hear back (after submitting withholding) that an employee couldn't be verified. Then the employee would have to provide more information. A fellow could work for a couple of months until I had to let him go. Sometimes they'd get hired back with 'real' documents and the process would start all over again.
There could be quite a few (millions) illegals bouncing from job to job like this.
As an employer, if I collected the documents, submitted the taxes and didn't keep anyone on the payroll that didn't check out then I'd fullfilled my obligations - even if I suspected the employee might be illegal.
The official USA government program to determine if a job seeker is legal is called E-Verify.
http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7...
Thanks for that. I blanked on the name while I was typing.
One of the amazing things about the "lock box" is that the government has already borrowed and spent it. How will it be paid back? I don't think there's a ready explanation. Maybe let the rest of Mexico over the border.
It's in treasuries, stoopido.
If they don't have any value, give me all your currency, dood!
Same old stupid, tired talking points from a US Chamber of Commerce plant.
Tedious....tedious....tediouds....
True, and that is wrong, but how much does the US tax payer send to foreign nations without ever being asked? Billions and billions? . Net result Tax payer losses domestic jobs and sends out billions to employ foreign nationals.
I wonder if this was in the State department's report to the UN - how the US is violating human rights by collecting social security with no intent of paying it out (forget reporting Arizona's law). This has the potential to surpass the Madoff scandal in terms of ripping people off. Where's Fox news on this one ?
As for money sent to Mexico from workers in the US, it probably is chump change when compared to the drug money (read illegal profits) that Americans are sending to Mexico's udnerground economy. Those billions of benjamins have to be contributing to someone's economy.
It's just a cost of doing business for undocumented employees.
They get paid five times what they would receive back home - bur someone(who it is they could care less) takes maybe 25% from take home pay for taxes, SSI whatever.
they have no expectation of future benefits, they just want to take their pay home to their families. So what's the problem?
I was wondering the same thing myself. The illegals didn't expect to ever see the money again. It's a cost of working in the U. S. Overhead, if you will. Is there some buried guilt in Washington about how to atone for the perceived sins of keeping these innocent people's money? I kinda doubt it. In this case it's "follow the politics" instead of "follow the money".
This is the type of short-term shallow 1st order effect thinking that has gotten this country into the mess we are today. COME ON - we are smarter than this.
We should NEVER buy-in to allowing illegal aliens citizenship on the premise that they give up rights to SS benefits based on past contributions made on wages while they were ILLEGALLY in the US. If this situation is found to be true...these funds should be transferred immediately from the SS fund to the states most impacted by having to support the medical, educational, etc... needs of these illegal aliens. Are we really sufficiently dumbed down to take this bullshit argument? Cowboy up everyone.
Before I say anything more about this, I need to state that I feel for the plight of the illegal alien - the Mexican in particular. They are nothing more than pawns being played by the Pols and corrupt businessmen - votes and cheap labor. We need to lock down that boarder and force the Mexican revolution that should have occurred decades ago. The Mexican government is corrupt to the core. We need to put the lid on the pressure cooker and force a boil over - period. This would be the best out come for the average Mexican citizen.
We need to stop the DC Pols from playing these vulnerable constituenties for votes. We can't allow that to persist. We need to put an abrupt stop to corrupt American businessmen from hiring and leveraging illegal labor. I believe that the assets of any company that is caught employing illegal labor should be ceased, the assets of all company officers and key management should be ceased - this needs to be a scorched earth approach. These assets should be sold and the proceeds used to pay down the state debt in which these company's reside to compensate them for the costs associated with this illegal workforce that has been shifted to the states. Send these managers to hard core prisons - particularly ones with a Mexican Mafia presence. These business owners are not capitalists they are free loaders that have blatantly achieved an uneven competitive advantage through hiring illegals. Moreover, they have shifted the cost of labor to the the people in the states in which they reside - while they accrue the benefits. These businesses and managers need to be punished to the fullest extent.
If these assholes in DC try this angle, I hope each and every American will stand up and say get stufffed - at the polls this November. In broad based recall elections thereafter.
Interesting. Give the money back to the states to offset the medical/educational expense. Makes sense. The SSTF would roll over and die if that is what happened. I think it is a great plan.
Oh the games which get played. As I have said before, ...
Our government has become criminal, corrupt, and illegitimate.
Illegal Immigrants Are Bolstering Social Security With Billions
April 5, 2005 - NT Times - excerpt
STOCKTON, Calif. - “Since illegally crossing the Mexican border into the United States six years ago, Ángel Martínez has done backbreaking work, harvesting asparagus, pruning grapevines and picking the ripe fruit. More recently, he has also washed trucks, often working as much as 70 hours a week, earning $8.50 to $12.75 an hour.
Not surprisingly, Mr. Martínez, 28, has not given much thought to Social Security's long-term financial problems. But Mr. Martínez - who comes from the state of Oaxaca in southern Mexico and hiked for two days through the desert to enter the United States near Tecate, some 20 miles east of Tijuana - contributes more than most Americans to the solvency of the nation's public retirement system.
Last year, Mr. Martínez paid about $2,000 toward Social Security and $450 for Medicare through payroll taxes withheld from his wages. Yet unlike most Americans, who will receive some form of a public pension in retirement and will be eligible for Medicare as soon as they turn 65, Mr. Martínez is not entitled to benefits.
He belongs to a big club. As the debate over Social Security heats up, the estimated seven million or so illegal immigrant workers in the United States are now providing the system with a subsidy of as much as $7 billion a year.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html
I'm guessing that this is one of those made-up stories that shows up as news from time to time. Someone who is not here legally cannot easily get a legitimate SSN. And the Social Security Administration is pretty good at catching contributions to the system based on a SSN that is not legitimate. I can't imagine how a substantial number of illegitimate SSNs (millions??) could be despositing money into the SS system without being spotted. Unless the SSA is intentionally looking the other way as the money comes in.
But the story claims this is happening at the level of millions of illegitimate SSNs, not a couple here and there. The SSA has a good handle on how SSNs are being distributed, and what the sequence of the numbers being issued is. If this story is true at the level of millions of SSNs, the illegitimate SSNs are coming from millions of dead people whose loved ones have not notified the SSA that the person is dead. Or the SSA is ignoring millions of SSNs that are out of sequence and have not yet been issued by the SSA.
Remember, we are not talking about a fake SSN to be used for I.D. purposes, etc. We are talking about a fake SSN being used to submit funds to the SSA. You want to seriously claim that millions of Americans are not reporting that their loved one has died? Or that the SSA is missing the illegitimacy of millions of SSNs transmitting money into the system? How would you keep everybody in the process in line? Someone, somewhere within SSA would end up being a whistle-blower.
I'm not arguing against phoney SSNs. There may be billions of them for all I know - used for whatever I.D. purposes SSNs can be used for. My argument is against the likelihood that millions of illegitimate SSNs are being used to transmit withheld funds into the SS system undetected.
Exactimundo, RichardP, you have neatly destroyed Brucie's argument of obfuscation.
Well done!
By and large, most illegals don't have phony SSNs of any kind, but well-heeled members of the criminal element do, and those we should be most ware of.
This is not made up. This is EXACTLY how it is done. They get bogus SS cards and ID, get jobs, and after many months or a few years, somebody from the federal government calls the employer and says, hey, there is some kind of problem with one/some of your employees SSN's. They don't match the names (or whatever).
When the employer brings it up with the employees, they all split. OF COURSE the SS folks know that something is screwy. But they need the money so they drag their feet before they say anything.
I also read about this in around 2003 or so, and I know of a health care facility where it happened. The kitchen manager had no idea all her guys were illegal until she got a notified by the SSA (or whoever). When she brough it up with one of her guys, he explained the whole thing to her. He said he got a new fake SS card every two years or so.
Spanish is the ONLY language spoken in the vast majority of every kitchen in every large city in california. Many of the workers are legal, but many are not. The employers can't really tell until they get notified by the feds.
mamba-mamba
cant you read nitwit ?
thats exactly the point Bruce is making. SS is looking the other way as illegals put in money into the fund.
Great job Bruce. I agree that it sure sets up as a very slick argument for some sort of amnesty path to citizenship. The dems love to trade on 'fairness', and I can hear them now how these good honest folks have been treated unfairly by not being able to pay for benefits while paying into the system. Of course, this is from folks who won't admit being an 'illegal' alien, is actually committing a crime, so there isn't much use in trying to engage them in a serious discussion of the facts. In the dems deconstructed view of criminality and fairness, they will craft definitions for each to suit their spin.
If the employee and the company knew they were working illegally, then tough. Neither party in an illegal activity both knowingly breaking the law can collect the benefits. Additionally, the amount is much higher, this is only for the ones that "actually paid in taxes" to the SSTF.
Also remember that illegal aiens that are collecting SS benes only have to contribute for 16 quarters, whereas American Citizens have to contribute fot 40 quarters to "qualify" for those benefits. Additionally, those benefits follow them to wherever they move in the globe. No other country does that, why the hell should we whe we have people that have contributed all their lives and played by the rules and will get their SS benes cut. All the while we make it easier and easier for illegal aliens or other criminals (see Wall Street Criminals) to reap the rewards of ill gotten gains.
Whjy is the American Citizen forced to pay for all this crap?? And the told to just sit on it and accept the wisdom of idiots???
If people come here to work illegally they should get no benefits.
illegal aliens (or aiens) do not collect social security benefits except through fraud (as could anyone skilled enough at fraud). this is a hoax. check snopes or factcheck.
Hmmm... this thing smells to high heaven.
The workforce in this country is 150 - 160 million. How could illegals be responsible for 13% of the SS funds? Even if every one paid SS taxes, and earned the same amount as native born citizens, there'd have to be over twenty million of them in the workforce. Considering many (I would argue most) don't pay SS at all or only pay on a small part of their income, the number of illegal workers would have to be much higher than that to get to 13% of SS funds. Thirty million? Forty million?
That 13% figure doesn't make sense.
The 13% is the % of the current Trust Fund balance of $2.6 trillion.
The WaPo article put the number at 10.7% as of 2007. It is higher now. I tried here to make a case that it could be +20b per year. if so the number is ~$300b (240 + 60). The Fund also gets interest on this. 5% it the number. So $15b a year since the 2007 period. That comes to 345b, or 13+%.
We will hear more on this. I think my estimates will stand up.
b
You, of course and once again, choose to ignore many, many variables.
So how much money is illegally paid out in SS benefits?
Quite a bit, actually.
Quit ignoring so many variables, dood!
So the way they are figuring the percent contribution from illegal workers is by a cummulative method? The money from illegals is paid in and never paid out so their nominal contribution to the trust fund can only rise? And since American workers eventually collect their contribution, by that way of figuring it, eventually the entire trust fund will be only the leftover contributions from illegals?
Hey, I have another way of figuring it. Some workers die before 62 and never collect either. The nominal amount in the trust fund from the early die-ers can only rise too. Soon the entire trust fund will belong to illegal aliens and dead people.