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States' Deplorable Fiscal Situation Betrays True State Of The Economy Stripped Of Stimulus
There is nothing the administration hates more than the anti-propaganda truth, especially the kind that discloses the pathetic situation of the economy. Which is why Larry Summers must be positively loathing the most recent report from the Pew Center On The States, entitled "Beyond California: States in Fiscal Peril", which, as the observant among you may surmise, discusses states in fiscal peril. In short, that would be all of them. A snippet: "California’s problems are in a league of their own. But the same pressures that drove it toward fiscal disaster are wreaking havoc in a number of states, with potentially damaging consequences for the entire country."
And while the Fed may hope to bail out the ongoing contraction at the Federal level indefinitely (or until it runs out of toner cartridge), the options facing the various states are much less sanguine. To wit:
This examination by the Pew Center on the States looks closely at nine states, in addition to California, that are particularly affected. All of California’s neighbors—Arizona, Nevada and Oregon—and fellow Sun Belt member Florida were severely hit by the bursting of the housing bubble and landed on Pew’s top 10 list of recession-stricken states facing a similar set of fiscal difficulties. A Midwestern cluster comprising Illinois, Michigan and Wisconsin emerged, too, as did the Northeastern states of New Jersey and Rhode Island.
These states’ budget troubles can have dramatic consequences for their residents: higher taxes, layoffs or furloughs of state workers, longer waits for public services, more crowded classrooms, higher college tuition and less support for the poor or unemployed. But they also pose challenges for the country as a whole. The 10 states account for more than a third of America’s population1 and economic output.2 And actions taken by state governments to balance their budgets—such as tax increases and drastic spending cuts—can slow down the nation’s economic recovery.
And if the following statement can be spun somehow as indicative of anything even closely resembling favorable data, or conducive to consumers going out to the latest foreclosed Mall (whose REIT owner is at a 52 week high) and buying Fendi garter belts, we would love to hear how that would be possible:
States overall struggled to close an estimated $162 billion in gaps for fiscal year 2010; since July, that tally has grown by nearly $16 billion. Tax collections in all 50 states for the first quarter of 2009 were down a record 11.7 percent from 2008. Meanwhile, the unemployment rate was 9.2 percent nationally during the second quarter of 2009 (the latest figure available at the time of our examination) [make that 10.2% currently], with 12 states suffering from double-digit jobless rates. That rate was up from 4.8 percent when the recession officially began in the fourth quarter of 2007.
Another way to visualize the impending need for a state-wide bailout. We doubt Obama will mind printing another $200 billion for that purpose. What is immediately noticeable is that of the 10 "worst states" the average budget gap is north of 20%, with California, Arizona and Illinois all sporting a 40%+ budget gap, and as tax revenues collapse!
Another way to see who the 10 worst states in America according to Pew is presented in the map below:
Yet by and far the worst fiscal situation is in California and its closest Southwest state neighbors. Of particular note is Arizona, where the foreclosure problem is even worse than in California. Yet Toll would like you to believe that all is good, even as the CEO sells ever more shares.
Keep in mind: states basically highlight the true economic picture of the economy absent Federal stimuli (and wholesale propaganda). There is no reprieve anywhere yet at the state level. In fact, at this rate many more states aside from California will be forced to not only make very difficult fiscal decisions, which have thus far been successful postponed, but will be forced to come begging to Ben Bernanke for scraps, regardless of how this would look like from a political standpoint. As Pew highlights, the fall out from the ongoing recession is nowhere near contained and in fact it is only getting worse when one removes the sugar coating of various recurring stimuli. In the meantime, the US is simply getting deeper and deeper in debt as it merely buys time before the inevitable collapse ultimately occurs.
Full Pew report.
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i look forward to the burning of Camden when the .gov cheese stops coming in
There was this one time when I was out for a nature walk in Pyne Poynt Park in Camden. I was thinking about how awesome the new ZH DARPA project is going to be.
And I started to hump a tree, BAREBACK with no protection on.
Could you imagine?? No protection!?
Federal bailout of the states in 3, 2, 1 ...
Federal bailout of states = federal takeover of states
cali would gladly allow a takeover
only if we can surf in China
Charlie don't surf.
You either surf or you fight!
You mean a Tenth Amendment backlash:
"Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every power, jurisdiction, and right, which is not by this Confederation expressly delegated to the United States, in Congress assembled."
I can see the dismantling of the Federation, with the States grouping together in blocks, each having their own governor, their own military and even their own currency.
i agree but i see 5 states with
the northeast hopefully burning
to the ground...
Add some salt to the ground where the ashes are and I would call that a good start.
BTW I am a CT Yankee thru and thru.
In the interest of carbon offsets wouldn't it be better to just pry them loose and let them float back across the pond?
it's called secession...
LOok at what La. did. They turned down Federal $ because the US Gov. wanted to control more.
.gov sees a chance to extract more TAX revenue.
If you were the US Treasury wouldn't you like to own the banks and the Hubble telescope? Instead of looking into the unknown galaxy wouldn't it be better to see what Joe's property looks like??
Look at that! There is a truck and trailer parked in the back of Joe's house with a sign on it that says AUDITME Excavating. I thought Joe worked at the Caterpillar factory doing assembly? I didn't know he got a special deal on a Track Hoe during the 2008 economic crash.
I know this sounds strange but because of technological revolutions the IRS has been able to increase their enforcement and collection departments endgame by 74%.
How you ask? Before Quickbooks and other online tax submission processes the Treasury spent all of their time opening envelopes and cashing checks. Now they have BOTS do it for them.
INSERT into IRS_DATABASE values('US_TAXPAYER_NAME', 'W2_AMOUNT_OWED', 'ACTUAL_PRETAX_AMOUNT_RECEIVED');
commit;
trigger;
if(actual_amount_owed < amount_received){
raise AUDIT_EXCEPTION;
}
All the IRS envelope openers moved into the collections and enforcement division.
Do you worry about the economy??
Think again. The US Treasury is in love with their new computer on loan to them from Los Alamos. 1.5 petaflops.
Brought to you IBM "Deep Computing".
Why? Because it allows them to see your property in real time(visually via Hubble), your tax return, any bank account currently owned or jointly owned by you, who you voted for, what websites you visit, what you bought at Target-Online, what vehicles/boats/motorhomes you own....
Do you understand me?? Get off the fucking grid my man!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnCZl6NNUBc
(listen carefully at 2:30 into this video)
The uber-surveillance state is no match for the hard-won experience that vets are bringing home from 8 years of war. If it was, we'd not be fighting anywhere, would we?
That's what the 700 billion was for last year.
It was the initial installment / bribe to for the states to relinquish their power to the feds. Oh yes, and there is more come.
There will never be a con con now.
Continental Congress 2009 live feed
http://www.givemeliberty.org/CC2009/default.htm
Not exactly what you meant, but something is happening.
Don't see it happening.
Bailing out California would be as costly as bailing out France, but without the benefit of protecting a nuclear-armed trading partner.
The states will burn. Starting with California.
cougar (from California)
Agree.
But analysis of the stimulus money shows a whole bunch of it going to bailing out gov't workers already (both muni and state). It's happenin'....
Hmmmmmm. I like you cougar. I'm a very young 20 something hard-body daytrader. I like margaritas and bong hits. What about you?
(wink-wink)
Playing hard to get?
Come out, come out where ever you are.
I know you hate to visit Youtube clips Cougar, but I want you to view my favorite.
Me: Dennis Hopper
You: Isabella Rossellini
Director: Tyler Durdurrrr(in the closet)
Blue Velvet clip(1 minute 24 sec)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_5sQyHnbY4
Cali will be sacrificed. The other states will see what happens and get their shit together. Or maybe they will split North Cal and SoCal?
doesn't matter.
( DJ ) 11/11 04:12PM *DJ HP To Acquire 3Com For $2.7 B >HPQ all cash deal.
S&P 1200 tomorrow.
HP deal not big enough to affect S&P.. the only thing hurt s BRCD which is 5% lower a/h because rumor had the BRCD was take over target for HP... not a market mover by any means.
Only the USD and Goldman Sachs move this market
so who was loading up on COMS after 11AM EST?
I'm sure this is all great news for The Bulls.
Great article. Looking at Wyoming now.
Wyoming is nice on paper but not so nice in person. Just got back from looking at it and several other western states. To see the joy of Wyoming, be sure to check out Rawlins and Rock Springs. Only place in that state I'd really consider living would be the Jackson area or a few miles over the border from Colorado (Fort Collins area).
I'm with you on that. Follow hwy 287 NNW for an hour or so from Ft. Collins. I've only spent a bit of time in Laramie, but it struck me as a really nice town, and it's surrounded by great country.
I'm with you on that. Follow hwy 287 NNW for an hour or so from Ft. Collins. I've only spent a bit of time in Laramie, but it struck me as a really nice town, and it's surrounded by great country.
Laramie is an OK town, not terrific. I have relatives who used to live there. It is nominally a college town but sure doesn't feel like most other college towns - it feels like a truckstop/ranch station that is oddly a little more cultured than would otherwise be expected. Hwy 287 is a nice drive, though rather crowded these days, and there would be good options a short distance off of it, either side of the state line. As for "great country" I guess it depends what you're looking for. If elk and bighorn sheep hunting and lots of desolation is your thing, it's great. If you like water, agriculture and even a tiny hint of civilization, I don't think it's so great. And I say this as someone predisposed to like the area but just unable to find what I was hoping to find there. Land is comparatively cheap per acre but not so cheap when you consider how little productivity you have per acre or what you would be paying in comparison to the quantity available. I think much of the west is a better choice for someone relocating for lifestyle and financial reasons. I don't, of course, wish to share my personal favorites!
Don't worry, rumor has it China will be buying Muni Bonds.
They already do through the Build America Bond program. Feds now pay interest cost subsidy to issuers of taxable bonds. Some of these go to Sovereign WF et al. The retroactive attachment of mandates to the subsidies is just another of the fascist cards to be played later.
An unfortunate result of the housing bust is that States, Cities and Municipalities will NEVER reduce their cost that they built up thinking the run would last forever.
The property holders will be taxed to death before they cut back unless voters cap or vote cuts. (lol)
It would be a shame for homeowners to struggle for years to avoid foreclosure, only to be taxed into BK by the states and counties. But that's probably already baked into the cake.
Nobody is getting out of this alive. Nobody, anywhere.
cougar
I disagree. I think responsible county governments are now wise to the reality they are facing and are scaling back. It is painful and slow, but it is happening.
I am a state worker. I promise you, they don't get it. They are using stimulous money to stay alive until the economy comes back. That's the plan. Seriously.
What a great plan. We see it in my state too - being pushed furiously by an unpopular Dem governor, against opposition from all Republicans (no surprise) and more Dems than you might expect.
Ah, we all know what is going on.
A $90 million dollar paving project to pave 47 miles of north and southbound lanes of I-95??
$90 million?
$10 million for the actual paving work and $80 million goes to "State Administrative Costs".
Out of the $10 million dollars that the paving companies got from the state only $485,483 went to actual payrolls. And that was for 253 workers who averaged a total of $1921 dollars each!!
Nice big fat check going to the consumer engine!
I'm the baby daddy of 6 kids and I got a check for $2000 dollar. I still owe $63,234 on back child support. I cannot wait for some Hope&Change from my man Barack!
Oh MsCrrrrreant. What are we going to do?
You aint shittin, in Jersey the Gov told the municipalities chill on those police and fire pension contribution till you can get your budgets in order so as not to jack real estate taxes up and so what do the municipalities do ? They give their cops 4% to 5% per year salary increases pretty much across the board with the extra cash from not contributing towards their pensions.
Maria, I think we should have the Obamas over for dinner. Could we cook that nice sauerbraten again? You know, the time we had the Davises over.
As one of this board's token 'Sconnies, I can attest to the pervasive, daily struggles at every level of government to pay for this, that, and the other thing. Literally EVERY local newscast features labor disputes, park closures, emergency board meetings, school referendums, service reductions, furlough days, layoffs, creative "revenue" mechanism proposals, recall elections over spending commitments, road salt and plowing shortages, etc.
Watching this 'Recovoreeee' play out on a daily basis is agonizing. It's like watching rust form on wet sheet metal.
And even through the State is bleeding manufacturing jobs, and the largest school system is an overt failure, we still have sufficient access to delicious brats, cheese, and AWESOME craft beers.
[brats, cheese, and craft beers]
More precious than you can imagine. Before long we'll all be longing for local production, hoarding raw resources, and praising area farmers, ranchers and craftsmen as heros. Them as can do, eats.
cougar
Whats the problem[?] I thought cali was only the land west of PCH, the rest really is owned by whats round on the ends and HI in the middle O-HI-O!
It is getting so bad in Florida that the Cubans are floating back to Cuba on rafts. The Coast Guard is having to pick them up and bring them back to Florida. Often, the CG captures a raft and the rafters tell them they had left Cuba. While the true rafters from Cuba claim that they left Florida.
Ha! I like this tall tale of the reverse flotilla. I wish all the fucking stinking Cubanos would return home where they belong but it will not happen.
The CBS 60 Minutes report 2 weeks ago about the South Florida Medicare fraud. They forgot to mention 99% of the fraudulent company owners are Cuban the rest are Haitian. Earning 10 - 50 million a year billing Medicare/Medicaid for nothing. They are in paradise.
That report was the tip of the iceberg regarding Cuban fraud again the American people.
Cubans are quickly learning the lesson displayed to them by the Jew Mafia.
Hay, they did have good jobs during the 80s supplying coke and the proceeds to the Banksters until shit got crazy, hell their just trying to to get their money back from the double dealing fed scam artists.
Skippy...All those high buildings in down town miami are just big piles of coke man.
All those high buildings in Panama too. Including the Burj Al Arab look alike TrumpPanama.
http://www.trumpoceanclub.com
That building is only about 40% occupied and most of the residents cannot be traced. That's right folks. When you build a multi-use property like this you have many phantom "buyers" and renters.
You're fired!
Funny how Trump is so chummy with the drug king pins and even Kadafi. Is he a closet anti-semite? It's hard to be global.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/09/libyas-kadafi-pitches...
As they say in Costa Rica Mucho Gusto, or my fav Zarpe = loosely translated it means one more drink, but not really I'm just trying to look respectable here.
Skippy...a man like machismo embrace!
Ha ha ha. Let them eat sugar cane. And the Governor's plan is to get the U.S. Senate seat and escape to Washington D.C. But the local newspapers are STILL pushing new stadiums...!
There is no reprieve anywhere yet at the state level. In fact, at this rate many more states aside from California will be forced to not only make very difficult fiscal decisions, which have thus far been successful postponed, but will be forced to come begging to Ben Bernanke for scraps, regardless of how this would look like from a political standpoint.
-------------------
South, Rocky Mountain, and midwestern states won't allow a state level bailout. Without severe consequences. If the democrats allow some kind of sweetheart bailout, they'll lose votes, lots of votes for a long time, like LBJ did signing off on civil rights.
If there is a bailout, Muni bondholders will be forced to take haircuts. Like they did in the 1840's and 1930's. And maybe lose exemption from tax on their interest payments. This won't be like NYC in the 1970's where there were mostly local bondholders that got taken care of; the bondholders are most definitely not locals.
Education, yes. Infrastructure, no.
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/11/california-stimulus-funding-map/
The biggest share of spending from the federal economic stimulus package has gone to pay teachers, in Oregon and elsewhere.
http://www.theworldlink.com/articles/2009/11/09/news/doc4af861a28e272766498619.txt
Stimulacrumus. Teachers 1, Infrastructure 0.
Personal, business and corporate income taxes along with sales tax and revenue outlook fell.
Outlays for things like unemployment benefits rose, widening the spending gap.
Having no printing press to paper over a rough spot the states were loaned access to
one via the stimulus package. Talk of infrastructure or shovel ready projects diminished,
giving way to talk of jobs created, then jobs saved, now silence regarding the actual
recipients of stimulus payments, stimulus becoming stimulacrumus.
All will confidently disappear into the amnesia hidey-holey, which expands to accept whatever
is thrust into it, but this is a family forum and not an appropriate analogy in polite conversation
concerning sums going in and out.
Are you saying that stimulus money didn't go to bs infrastructure projects but was actually used as a backdoor bailout to cover the pay of people like teachers? I'm going to need some evidence of that. I'm not saying its untrue, but if that is the case, then we are much further along the path to destruction than I would have thought. I think you are over-stating your case in this regard. I can only speak to the state I live in, however.
tons of money in New York went to education out of stimulus...there has been no attempt to hide that fact. a shitload of stimulus money went out to the states as direct aid.....
that said, there is also a portion sitting around waiting to go to infrastructure (it will kick in to support mid term elections).
Are you being facetious? Here in Oregon, the stimulus went straight to plugging the budget gap for schools and social services. It wasn't covert.
In fact, I believe the federal legislation explicitly shelled out for a ton of other uses besides infrastructure.
But Barny's corrective anal surgery is important! How will he function correctly if he gets no lovin from his anal retentive perfectionist lover hay.
Skippy...even hard ass politicians need cosmetic enhancement to garner the benefits endorphin chill pills render...did I say that right?
The Albuquerque Journal had an article back on June 9 about this very thing--24.4% of New Mexico's stimulus money is marked for Medicaid, 15.6% for public education, 6.3% for higher education (21.9% total for education), and 14% for environment. Infrastructure had 12% allocated.
This whole bill was hyped as a 21st century CCC or WPA project, but that's what it took to get the public's support behind it. If the administration had been honest and said that this bill was in fact a bailout for revenue-strapped states, it probably wouldn't have gotten the same level of support.
Obama basically lied when he said most of the money would go immediately and directly into the private sector to create jobs.
At my University, we are paying graduate assistants and adjuncts with the money. We lose the money in 2011, when they figure the economy is coming back. There will be no money to replace it. We will have to teach more classes to pick up the slack if things have not improved. But the plan is to make it until things improve.
I sat in a meeting last Thursday listening to this Plan.
And throw Cali into the mix too.
Never forget that when gubmint moves money it is always from left pocket to right pocket, then right pocket to left. Along the way a few coins may be dropped to the ground for the benefit of private sector sheeple......after admin expenses, of course.
It's hard to believe that, somewhere along the way, we lost track of the fact that while the Fed is the lender of last resort to private enterprise, Nancy Pelosi is the lender of last resort to We the People.
That's awesome because she is also lender of last resort FROM the people.
Damn, I never even connected the two!
Now, figure this one out... If we LEND TO OURSELVES, FROM OURSELVES, what is the net effect? Reduced purchasing power, increasing prices as far as the eye can see, and dead bodies piling up in the streets. Anyone else's Rosetta Stone telling them otherwise?
(The dead bodies may be a bit extreme... That result may have been left over from the "Obamacare" inquiry immediately before)
Net effect is increased interest expense, larger principal payments, and diminishing cash on hand...
It's gonna take a couple years for this carbuncle to burst & drain...
That's a bummer,man.
"MARK IT ZERO, DUDE"
Is this your homework, Larry?
too bad none of this crap is a surprise....spendomania, tax and more spend, and spend spend spend to everything is a season....
the governments at all levels are nothing but fat bloated gargantuan 400 lb oprahs trying to race back to the all you can eat buffet....
Woohoo, I missed my chance to collect the Notgeld last time around, but looks like that chance is about to come again!
http://www.minyanville.com/articles/10/20/2009/index/a/25036
Barney Frank and the House leadership will bail all of them out with a big assist from Harry Reid (D-NV). Also the California state constitution gives muniholders senior status re proceeds from tax collections, fees.
That makes a threesome of senior priorities for Kali. Pension fund, munis and schools. Hard to know which one is really on top !!
The CA state legislature wipes its ass with the State Constitution every day.
Off topic, but Denninger just posted COMS insider trading. TD, can you notify the SEC?
Why what good is the SEC going to do? These guys are more likely to prosecute themselves through some act of god than for the SEC to do it. Speaking of which, the one we really should notify is blankfein, as it seems he needs to send out another memo to his fellow cronies that they should do a better job in covering their tracks while "doing god's work"
10 states going under, that's 10 less mouths to feed... Bullish...
In simple proper economic terms, these states are phucked!
Easy solution. Californica and all other states take to themselves the right to print their own currency and mint their own coins. State establishments and the population would agree to accept this medium of exchange for certain necessities only. You couldn't fund a pension plan with it, but you could pay a teacher with it. Or a LAPD member.
The "Woodie",say, for Calfornica would only be negotiable in the state of Californica. Other states could volunteer to accept or reject the currency and coins.
Think Europe, pre-Euro.
Done. Those IOUs are being stored as redeemed . Ready for recirculation soon. I like the " woodie " handle better though. Sounds cool.......like " loonie ".
How in the world is New York State not on this list?
We are completely broke and cash will run out in 4 weeks.
Tells you something about the others, no?
BTW, we here in the People's Republic of MA aren't far behind either. Oh goodie, I always wanted to see an econo-societal collapse from Ground Zero - and by "always" I of course mean "never", but whatever.
The states clustered in the south-west are the crumbling cork that is the only thing holding the entire nation of Mexico in its bottle.
Something to think about, there.
cougar
What makes you think they'll want it?
Most have left Florida, no construction jobs there any more. Back to Mejico, where the cost of living is a lot less.
...Gotta hand it to 'em!
What, you mean my Muni bonds won't be insured? I could lose money?
NO WAY MAN!!
MBIA and AmBac have got you covered my friend. Sleep well!
The current mythology in California and Oregon is that the real estate market has bottomed out and is beginning to come back. And the new tax credit extension is going to solve the blizzard of option arm foreclosures next year.
I love your avatar! I suggest we take lots of them, fill them full of poo, then put them flaming at the doorsteps of congresspeople's houses, and watch the fun!
Animal house is your favorite movie!? We all love movies like, sooooooo much! OMG!
Ms Ex I had no idea of the mischief you could crate. I bet your nontenured position leaves a lot of time for your imagination to remember the days of coeds gone wild.
Extrapolate.
May I humbly submit the up grade option on that old trick, lets go military up grade.
First you get a strong trash bag 5 Gal k, invite friends to fill 1/3 full, get flash bang or hand grenade simulator, attach explosive device to wall/tree etc, mold bag of Pooh over/against explosive, run trip wire across intended path of victim/s, find spot to enjoy the good times!
Skippy...best used in winter or sub-zero conditions as projectiles freeze upon contact.
Happy Veterans day.
Nuthin happy about it love, its a funeral procession that never ends.
Young uninformed people go in and either accept the mind meld or not, but the out put is the same, modified people that will never belong again in the real world, except masking it to all others.
Skippy...try that shoe on when you meet one, ask for the truth with out judgment.
Hi Skippy,
There is a lot of pain expressed in this short post. Anything I say is trivial at this point. But I wanted to answer.
I'm sorry for the bullshit. You actually do belong. It is the rest of us that don't belong to the world that are the problem. If we were really in it, really connected, we couldn't let war be an option for resolving things. Don't come looking for my son, that will be a war in and of itself.
I have been a pacifist all my life. I got guns fairly recently and a little training, because I figured out that what I "think" doesn't matter in so many ways.
The idea of the soldier who volunteers because he or she wants to defend their country is a very noble thing, chokes me up a bit. The military, industrial, governmental, banking complex takes that noble, healthy impulse and twists it into blackness and perversion.
Experienced veterans may infact be more a part of the broader real world because they have experienced both how cheap and precious life is. In short, you can't hide from what the rest of us can easily deny. We are narrow.
Peace for us all.
Very elegantly put MsCreant and just so you know, I was not calling you you out, just expressing my self with regards to the topic. Vitriol is like comedy, a coping mechanism and ZH offers some of us *that stage*. The truth with a modicum of vitriol is a healthy thing and should be embraced, with the caveat that it does not incite violent action as Marla's latest post points out.
All better now k and just for your personal handgun safety, try finding a combat range to hone your skill, static movement and targets are not a good learning tool ie: class room and application are two different environments or kinda like GS teaching you how to trade, it only benefits them lol. Target identification, acquisition and resolution in real time is the key to protecting your self and saying ohhh shit.
skippy..BTW when is ZH going to perfect the empathy cannon ah la HGTU or are you de-bugging it for us now.
PS. thanks for your kind words it does help, not alone!
Here's the solution:
"(Without admitting guilt) JPMorgan last week agreed to a $722 million settlement with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission to end a probe into sales of derivatives that helped push Alabama’s most populous county to the brink of bankruptcy.
In addition to paying $50 million, the New York-based bank agreed to cancel $647 million in fees...(and) will also pay a $25 million penalty that will be placed in a fund to compensate affected investors."
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=a9Lxi1_u4ObQ
Backed by bailout money, the $722 million hit to the balance sheet was staved off and dragged out long enough to get a grip on the expense and essentially kills a whole flock of birds with one stone.
Of the $120 million that Jefferson County paid in fees and commissions I think a close examination would probably show that the $75 million in cash to be paid by JP comes no where close to the actual amount Jefferson County taxpayers doled out in payment extensions during the time the case was in court.
Essentially, JP probably bribed officials and then ripped off the taxpayers. While the case dragged out in court, JP then collected, let's say $80 million in fees and penalties, all the while accumulating $647 million in "fees" which could be posted to the balance sheet while the abuse was contested in court, and then, when they were ready, thanks to TARP, they can now pay back $75 million, pocketing $5 million, without admitting guilt and everyone can run around declaring victory, justice and salvation!
Apparently, judges who approve such settlements not only believe that crime does pay, but on a long enough time-line, everyone actually benefits from it!
Bankruptcy averted! Everyone can go back to work! Crisis resolved.
Now, all we have to do is find a way to repeat this scenario across the country!
"In the process, the county turned over more than $120 million in fees and commissions to the Wall Street banks that initially concocted the disastrous financing arrangement."
http://www.subprimelosses.com/blog/index.php/2008/08/26/jefferson-county...
I hate these people. All of them.
How could someone who claims to be so enlightened hate themselves so much?
Just curious...
Get an identity and an avatar (if you like) and I will be happy to talk with you. Right now, either you are posting all over the place to me, or I have a number of strange anon individuals posting similar kinds of posts. If my guess is right, you are targeting at least one other female poster as well. But this could be a false accusation on my part, in which case, gosh, I would owe you an apology. I can only know this if I know who you are.
Are you afraid for me to be able to attribute a consistent identity to you? There is no need for that. We are pixels, we can't hurt each other.
This particular question you asked me is flawed in a number of ways.
I have been very polite, I have given adequately of my time.
Now get an identity or fuck off.
MsCreant-
I think you and others will enjoy this article, one of the best I've read in a long time.
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article14967.html
Tyler: Considering the posts today including the state problem and tracking internet details this would be a good article reference.
Very comprehensive. I like the cultural refferants laced through there as well.
Everybody look what's going down...
That's just good music.
The presentation by PEW about the states is accurate, but their bias regarding the solution is glaring.
For instance, what's the problem with Oregon? That it doesn't have a sales tax. It therefore NEEDS a sales tax. Problem with Nevada? It doesn't have an income tax. It therefore NEEDS an income tax.
For just about EVERY state - the problem is that they they NEED to tax more. Period.
In the meantime, how about cutting salaries? Average high school teacher in my district in Illinois makes about $100,000. Illinois is buried, like CA, due to fantastic pension liabilites/promises. Any suggestion of controlling or (even temporarily) rolling them back? Nope - we just need to raise taxes!!!
The spending model for govt wasn't sustainable even BEFORE what Pew calls "The Great Recession." NOW is the time to truly reform it. As, for one example, the Philly transit strike supports, the govt employees are squarely on the side of "raising taxes" as the sole solution.
And does anyone think that the problems in AZ, CA and NV aren't related to rampant immigration? Has anyone recently said "taking the jobs that Americans won't do?" I don't think so.
Yes, I HATE govt unions - the ones with monopolies and are politically controlled. Private unions? GM and Chrysler are clearly showing the wisdom of the approach of "more, more, more" - until, well, it ends.
I'm predicting that it won't be pretty and I don't care HOW MUCH GOLD you own - it'll be forcefully removed.
In other news, Blankfein and GS continue doing "God's work!"
"I'm predicting that it won't be pretty and I don't care HOW MUCH GOLD you own - it'll be forcefully removed"
Shoot, I hadn't considered that. Will you buy my gold?
I agree with you about Pew's bias towards more taxes.
I would say that if we in Oregon could REPLACE some of the existing income tax with sales tax, it would do a lot to help smooth out the good and bad times. But it's a moot point. Maintaining no sales tax is a religion here.
The Texans are going to close up shop soon and laugh at all the US and Mexico. :)
Okay, I'm beyond pissed off again. No moons to bark at, and only idiots in charge ramming shit through on local levels that will make this even worse.
They can try and take my house for not working/paying taxes any more; I don't care after a few more weeks. I know the idiots who are doing it here and they will obfuscate to the bitter end they know what they're doing, while they don't.
Down boy, down! Caaaaalm. Steady boy. Steaaady. Heel. Don't let them see how mad you are until they are reeeeal close.
Good doggy, good.
Not to worry old boy, the toxic wasteland that Ashland chemicals and others that reside there to line the erected officials pockets, will soon be more than enough to limit cross boarder travel by its self.
Skippy..Mommy whats that glow on the horizion..son thats Texas where the rich people live and they have soooo much gold that it shines in the night.
Re: federal stimulus for California (disclosure: it's where I am). California receives about 68 cents on the dollar in federal revenue vs. taxes paid in. Keep the money in California, establish a state bank (like North Dakota), and voila, budget gap solved. Downside: California loses the chance to nation build in Afghanistan & Iraq, except maybe as part of the UN. 50% of agriculture for U.S.: here. Universal conscription of Californians could establish an army to defend against Chinese invasion. Lawrence Livermore, UC Berkeley, Cal Tech can keep building our nukes. California can come up with its own immigration fix - that is, an actual program. The banner of the Bear Flag Republic might fly again. I only hope we can avoid war with the Lone Star Republic.
Can we (Arizona) join you guys? We've got lots of cotton, copper, gold and we control your Colorado water.
There's nothing more people in Colorado and Utah would love to see happen than California seceding. Californians can probably cover their food needs with the CVP, but say goodbye to the Colorado River Compact and 4.5 million acre feet of water a year, most of which goes to agriculture--half of that will get diverted through the Big Thompson Project, and the rest to Flaming Gorge and the Weber Basin.
Just turn off the bloody sprinklers off a t the golf courses shezz.
Skippy..hell my old stopping grounds of Dobson Ranch is one now, ppls it a dessert.
You must live in Northern California.
There are a lot of people in Southern California that speak English as a second language... that are largely perceived as a drain on the states resources. If the state liberates itself it will need to decide how to defend its southern border.
Would you keep your ECOs within your borders?
Sucks to be us.
Screw all the weirdo Californians, let's just sell California to the Chinese for the exact amount we now owe them. Then as our debt grows uncontrolled just offer them more and more states.
I think Massachusetts could be next, they suck too.
Lets sell them Mexico. Admit it, it would be interesting.
+100.
Although the Chinese are not stupid enough to take crappy Mass. Maybe we could talk them into Illinois.
Bailout of the states? How much will China give to hawai and california? How much will germany give to Florida? I mean they aleady own most of miami.
I have an analogy for you...
There once was a state that became TBTF...too big to fail... We will call it Citi. All of its leaders were Rubins that could lose money just waking up in the morning.
But instead of getting rid of all the Rubins, the Rubins just kept failing upwards. Every Rube politician in Citi failed upward until only the dumbest were allowed to lead.
Finally a new Rubin, with a bad accent, finished the job driving Citi for sure into bankruptcy. The Rubin with the accent did not care, he was on his way out the door and steroids had taken their toll during his weight lifter days anyway.
The Rubin with the bad accent wanted to build a great canal for the people of Citi to remember him by for only $10 billion + major cost overruns (like the new Bay Bridge Improvement that sends semi trucks off the span into the bay...nice S curve CalTrans).
But Citi was broke and had trouble selling its last $4 billion in bonds to cover its last Broke Ass Budget, just a few months ago.
So what was this Broke Ass Rubin (read: Arnold) to do?
With the NEW budget deficit already approaching $2 billion only 3 months after the NEW budget DEAL that saved everything... 3rd year in a row... even stoned surfers in Santa Cruz are catching on to that one... how was Broke Ass Rubin (read: Arnold) going to get the $10b for his legacy?
So with all of the pressure of the $2 billion on top of the $60 billion deficit already cut and bonded under the rug... Broke Ass Rubin (read: Arnold) asked himself, "This is not like my movies. Maybe I should quit early like another Republican Governor Palin?"
Then a Professor with lots of regulartory experienced named William Black said to Broke Ass Rubin (read: Arnold), "See this nice straight line somebody drew on the map of Citi just below the 36 degree line? It makes three nice straight county lines right across the state?"
"Split it right there Broke Ass Rubin (read: Arnold). Citi is TBTF and a systemic risk to everyone else. Every county south of this line becomes Southern Citi or Broke Ass Rubin (read Arnold) Land."
"You can bubble and speculate all you want because you are fire walled off from the north which is strictly deposit and traditional banking with only Rubinettes like Pelosi allowed. You each have to take losers, that is part of the deal." said the Professor named Black.
So they split the state in two, it was no longer to big to fail and Broke Ass Rubin (read: Arnold) with the accent, took his Hummer and went home.
It's really not all that hard...
Took me 5 minutes. ...For real.
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2009/06/how-to-balance-califo...
I live in AZ and my property tax was just raised although my house value has gone down about 30%. I called and was told this had nothing to do with the value of the property but was a general increase. Okay. but they just gave developers another break.
I also paid my taxes with an extension and they LOST it- my return and my check and they need the $$$$
I have watched this state run itself into the ground with the help of Janet Reno, ex governor. This state could not control its borders at all and bent over backwards for the developers and they still do. They believe that the way to prosperity is build build build. Guess who paid for the overbuilding and necessary infrastructure?
Education is not valued and teachers here make 30,000 starting but they just had to take a pay cut. They are being paid poverty wages. So much for investing in the future. University professors had to take furloughs to meet the budget and I know a bunch and they do not get paid a fortune. They were told that everyone had to share in the pain. We have a good university system that I am sure the govt can ruin.
There is little planning for the future here in terms of infrastructure and water, which is a tremendous problem. We need more solar here and some effort is being made in this regard due to Fed tax breaks.
Illegal immigration will now be a very large issue for us as many workers cannot get jobs. They have to eat and get health care so you come to your own conclusions. I must also say they are industrious and not afraid to do manual labor but their kids have a low rate of attending college. How many landscapers can we support in the future?
Dear madam,
I am trying to enjoy my meal here at the Owl restaurant in Sedona, would you please keep the vitriol down as it is diminishing my dining experience greatly. For goodness sake Cindy and Co are coming around later at my house on the creek and I'll just never entertain correctly, Bobs new development is hanging on this gracious presentation.
Kindest Regards
Skippy or we that glow in the dark, but live in a desert.
PS. Cindy is cute.
BTW, it's Nepolitano, not Reno. Reno's the former idiot attorney general. We affectionately refer to her as "Nappy" for short for various reasons.
Incidentally I noticed the same property tax issue. I've held off sending a check just in case we are annexed by China before the end of the year.
I wonder how many of us are doing similar things? I am holding my county taxes (even though I can pay) until they are due, next year. In the past, I have always paid everything early. Now the IRS gets theirs on the April 14. Wish I had the guts to not send it at all...
LOL can't help my self here.
Just send after you touch up the body with some talc powder and if some should get on the letter well, whoops. X^ the senders of said monies should send a message, just kidding folks.
Skippy...I'm a bad man.
I did the same. As this is the only tax over which we have much control (not automatically deducted), and it is a substantial chunk of change, I am expecting some large issues to crop up on the county level as people decide whether to pay for food, heat or taxes. You may not have the guts, but others may not have the option.
The only real problem is that these problems can't be fixed. Pensions promised to public sector employees will chew up every cent. Why would anyone want to own real estate knowing they'll be the last lamb to be slaughtered by tax increases?
Follow the home schooling model for all schools and universities. Only teachers in direct contact with students get salaries. Cancel salaries for all other positions, or make them rotating positions with absolutely lower salary than teachers make. Drop busing. Check homework before allowing the student into the school the next day. In the classroom, the student-teacher ratio is ~25 to 1. At home, the adult-child ratio is 1 to 1 or 2 to 1. Homework is simply butt glued to chair and time spent on task.
Any principalship or accounting doesn't need a copy of Excel and three dozen Dell computers in every county in the US. This booking could be done by a university accounting student or by two ppl in India with a spreadsheet.
Cancel buying food. Schools raise their own food, put the former principals in charge. Every student learns gardening from container gardening to whole farm gardening. Get the CEOs who have sent jobs offshore, along with the US IRS, and count which academic majors have seen the most offshoring in the past 9 years. Steer students into a trade skill so they have a combination of academics and practical life skills, so they are not at the mercy of Bill Gates, Michael Dell, Larry Ellison, et al. who have great IT campuses in Bangalore (do these campuses show up on Google Earth?)
I don't see anyway out of this except for somebody hitting reset.
Niether the Feds nor the States have the political will to chop spending as required. It will tank the Economy. We have the Great Depression now - it's just being delayed by Stimulus. They can extend and pretend for awhile but then the house of cards will fail.
Happy Veterans Day - At least one part of government we can still believe in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJSk2Xc3Eq4&feature=related
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More bailouts -> more money -> everyone richer.