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Step Aside ECB: China Becomes Lender Of Last Resort To Failing Greece, In Exchange For Petrobras-Like Shell Game

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Here is how you kill two birds with one stone, all the while confirming that Europe has been about a step away from a full collapse. Greece, which like Ireland, has been unable to peddle its bonds to anyone now that Bunds spreads are back to all time record levels, has just seen the last white knight of the Keynesian system come to its rescue: China. As Bloomberg reports, the European lender of last resort is no longer the ECB: "China has already bought and holds its Greek bonds,” Wen
said in joint comments with Papandreou today, which were carried
live on state-run ET-1 television. “It commits, very
positively, to buy new bonds to be issued by Greece." Yet herein lies the rub: in exchange for the Chinese last-ditch rescue financing, which by the way is so transparent that everybody, except maybe for the Norwegian wealth fund will see right through it, Greece, in what is an almost identical replica of the Petrobras shell game, will use the money to turn around and buy Chinese ships. "Wen said a $5 billion shipping fund will be set up to
tighten relations between the countries’ two maritime industries
and facilitate the sale of Chinese vessels to Greeks." Truly brilliant what Keynesians will come up with in the last days of a collapsing economic religion.

And one wonders just how far the reach for yield has pushed China - instead of buying US bonds, the country with the $2 trillion + trade surplus is investing in the sovereign equivalent of subprime. Which makes sense, when your cost of capital (i.e. artifical GDP growth) is 8%+, buying 2 Year US bonds at 0.4% just won't cut it any longer.

Greece received a 110-billion euro ($151 billion) bailout from the EU and International Monetary Fund in May to avoid default. The country, which has been locked out of international credit markets, plans to issue new bonds in 2011.

In the first visit to Greece by a Chinese premier in 24 years, Wen said he wants to signal a vote of confidence in Greece and the European Union in overcoming the international financial crisis.

“With our common efforts the total mass of imports and exports between the two countries in the next five years can double to $8 billion,” Wen said. He called on Chinese businesses to invest in Greece.

As for the JV in what could be the most oversupplied industry in the world, here is how China and Greece hope to confirm that all is well, despite a Baltic Dry Index which after its latest dead cat bounce, so vapidly extolled by those who have no idea about supply/demand mechanics in the Capesize sector which has about 5 boats of excess supply for every boat in demand, has been down for nearly two straight weeks with one or two day exceptions:

The two leaders will today visit Piraeus Port, Greece’s biggest, where Asia’s third-biggest container terminal operator has a 35-year concession to run some operations. China plans to deepen its Piraeus investment to move 3.7 million containers a year by 2015.

Cosco Pacific Ltd. won the concession to run container operations at Piraeus Port’s Pier II and build and run Pier III in 2009. Greece’s government owns 75 percent of Piraeus Port Authority SA, the company that manages the harbor.

Wen will speak in the Greek parliament on Oct. 3, Ambassador Luo Linquan said in an interview with China’s state- run news agency Xinhua.

For all intents and purposes, this is equivalent to Buffett buying a stake in Goldman, or convertible preferred in GE, just before the bottom fell off the market. The problem here is that after China, there is no other backstop left, period, unless one discovers some rather prominent printing presses on Mars, coupled with some intelligent life. Which, unfortunately for Greece... and Earth... would mean no Keynesians.

 

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Sat, 10/02/2010 - 14:21 | 621066 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Xirong at the gates!

Sun, 10/03/2010 - 02:43 | 621843 midtowng
midtowng's picture

I believe a Greek Tragedy tale would be more appropriate.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 14:21 | 621069 Rogerwilco
Rogerwilco's picture

A similar scheme worked well for Lucent Technologies, until one day it didn't. But we're so much smarter now, and this time it's different...

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 14:21 | 621071 HarryWanger
HarryWanger's picture

Triple digit gain on that news after CNBC spins it into "Chinese confidence shown with monetary support for Greece".

Time to crank up the machines and start the party!

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 14:24 | 621075 snowball777
snowball777's picture

China purchases austere slave shipping force, film at 11.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 17:53 | 621338 ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

 

I'm seeing China forgetting an interest payment for an air base that will make the Joint non-smoking Chiefs' head spin.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 21:54 | 621607 Mark Noonan
Mark Noonan's picture

Naw, won't disturb the Joint Chiefs at all - the curious thing about Greece is that it isn't strategically important to anyone other than the Greeks.  The only area of importance around there is the Dardanelles, and Turkey controls them.

 

 

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 14:23 | 621074 MacedonianGlory
MacedonianGlory's picture

Papandreou's Gvnt is a total failure.

One year ago Papandreou was protesting against Chinese.

Now he begs for cash.

He is the cause of Greece's destruction

 

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 14:33 | 621086 Black Forest
Sun, 10/03/2010 - 23:25 | 623273 A Broken Bear
A Broken Bear's picture

Really? You're blaming him and not the years of useless, lying and corrupt government they have had?

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 14:25 | 621076 DosZap
DosZap's picture

China, is /has bought up everything for sale, as far as it's needs for the next 50yrs+.

Meanwhile, back at the SHITEHEAD hole, we print.

One thing the Rare Earth lockdown did, was wake up the Pentagon.

We have HUGE resources of those RE's,just up until now, it's not been a priority to spend the cash to mine them.

Well, game on now.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 15:21 | 621136 scatterbrains
scatterbrains's picture

Interesting...  What's a good way to play this "game"

 

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 20:35 | 621538 morkov
morkov's picture

"we" bought India...remember the nuclear deal??? the biggest "democracy" with cast system still operating. That's not insignificant.

Sun, 10/03/2010 - 03:32 | 621866 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Yep, but India was actually bought, lock-stock and barrel a long time ago. The Unclear, unpopular, nuclear deal is just the icing on the take-over cake.

Also, India is not a democracy. It is a kleptocray of the worst kind. A thug-ocracy even. Some said it best on a ZH a while ago, China is the factory to the world and india is it's errand running back-office boy.

And the caste system does not exist as it was meant to. Like all other institutions (cultural or otherwise), it's current form is a perversion of it's origins.

The Petrobas shell game has also been played over and over by the developed world on India and the rest of it's "third' world ilk(what is the second world?, never found the answer to that one). Japan Overseas Development bank, USAID and it's ilk have been givign these loans to India for decades. Caveat, buy Japanese or American crap with the same loans.

Funny, begger nations giving other begger nations loans.

Such a joke, International "Development" aid. Golden chains at best, hangman's noose at worst.

Keep yer money, you need it!

ORI

http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com

Sun, 10/03/2010 - 10:14 | 622085 JMcLeod
JMcLeod's picture

The term Second World was used to sum up the communist countries, i.e. the Soviet block, China and Vietnam.

 

 

Sun, 10/03/2010 - 12:57 | 622322 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Thanks JM

 

ORI

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 20:37 | 621540 morkov
morkov's picture

i keep forgetting to mention "you" printed enough money to monetize Iraq's wealth and to be used by it's citizens...

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 14:27 | 621078 outamyeffinway
outamyeffinway's picture

I believe Greece was supposed to bring their budget in line with the M treaty but were supposed to still meet their defense budget spending requirements....? Idiotic.

This is a very interesting development. Greece would be "siding" with China rather than the Western defense monopoly.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 14:29 | 621082 bankonzhongguo
bankonzhongguo's picture

This is no different than the World Bank, USAID and GS usual suspects in being Economic Hitmen in the developing world since WW2.  Greece, a member of NATO, yada yada, is now going down the road of Guinea Bissau.  They will also be joining the USA.  Folks forget we make loans to Panama, Nicaragua, etc. on condition that they buy American M-16s, Humvees and Bell H-1 spare parts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_of_an_Economic_Hit_Man

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 14:49 | 621101 _deepfire
_deepfire's picture

While the EHM story you link to is entirely legitimate (from my POV), I don't see sinister motives parallel to the Chinese action.

They are merely engaged in practical alliance building, AFAICS.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 14:56 | 621110 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Need some swampland in AZ?

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 17:41 | 621312 ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

 

Don't be forgetting we pay BushArabia a healthy chunk of the extra 40-50 USD per barrel times 6 million per day so the white-robed Wahabbis can spend in on Eisenhower's warned-about Military-Industrial Complex.

60 Billion was the last deal announced September 2010.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 21:34 | 621591 hungrydweller
hungrydweller's picture

+ 60B

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 21:37 | 621593 hungrydweller
hungrydweller's picture

+ 60B

The ChiComs side with western friendly nations while we side with IslamoFascists.  All the while, they continue to pick up hard assets with which to dominate the future world.  Our vaunted military will not carry the day this time.  Man are we stupid. 

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 14:46 | 621098 Hondo
Hondo's picture

Another loser for the Greek people who will now need permanent welfare

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 14:47 | 621099 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

I have said before they should turn the Acropolis into a Chinese sauna.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 14:52 | 621104 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Ni Hao (A Gold Farmers Story)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dkkf5NEIo0

Timothy Geithner Open To New Global Currency

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds_qGXbxK-4

If you cannot see thru this charade, there is no hope for you.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 14:56 | 621108 idoubtit
idoubtit's picture

Vendor financing.  I can't wait till Greece fu*cks China. 

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 14:58 | 621113 DosZap
DosZap's picture

They are gonna have to go BIG, to beat us at that game..........we WIN.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 22:04 | 621616 Kayman
Kayman's picture

It might be a tad difficult to know who the fu*kee or the fu*ker is.

But certainly Wen will be introduced to Greek secks.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 14:58 | 621114 quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

No ticky no laundry, bossman

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 15:37 | 621115 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

Actually this was a bailout of the EU... to keep Greece from defaulting and bringing down the whole house of cards.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 23:43 | 621708 i-dog
i-dog's picture

+1

Ding, ding, ding ... correct answer!

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 15:06 | 621120 WAYBACK .....WA...
WAYBACK .....WAAAYYBAAAACKKK..O..MY..ITS OUTAHERE's picture

china to greece

"We're from china and we're here to help."

WHO IS KIDDING WHO

 

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 18:29 | 621401 tom a taxpayer
tom a taxpayer's picture

Chinese Trojan horse...the fall of Troy.

How sad for the proud Greek seafaring, ship-building nation.

The Chinese use a Trojan horse for the final Act of the Greek tragedy, a  downward spiral noted in 2000:

"The Greek shipbuilding industry, like the wider European industry, is in crisis due to competition from countries with low labour costs. Greek shipyards have been forced to make a series of structural changes which have resulted in lower employment levels, but which are gradually creating the conditions for Greek shipyards profitably to re-enter international markets. We examine the situation and prospects of Greek shipbuilding in early 2000, and the positions of trade unions and employers."

http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/eiro/2000/02/feature/gr0002164f.htm

 

How sad for the proud Greek seafaring nation.

"The Greeks, more than any other people in the world, have remained, during their entire, very long history, mariners without interruption, they have loved the sea, they have thought of it as a beautiful element, and they believed it had godlike powers; whilst the others, such as the Phoenicians and the Romans, used it to conquer other people. The Greeks considered the sea a friendly environment and they were happy with the sea's caprices. Very quickly they came to realize that the sea could offer them a way of life, together with the joy of freedom and an increasing freedom of spirit."

http://www.greece.org/poseidon/work/articles/polemis_one.html

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 20:14 | 621517 Gromit
Gromit's picture

Timeo Chinos et dona ferentes

(I fear the Chinese even when they make gifts)

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 21:19 | 621580 Invisible Hand
Invisible Hand's picture

Gromit,

I watch all your stuff!  Dump Wallace and we can run away together!  The Invisible Hand never stops scratching ears...I promise.

By the way...Greece must be destroyed.  Wait, I don't have to say that, the Greeks will take care of it without any encouragement from me.

The US probably won't make it.  Germany won't make it.  China is doomed.  But when Greece slides back into the Stone Age, no one, especially the Greeks, will notice or care.  It's all been downhill since 479 BC (Plataea) and once the welfare from the Northern Europeans runs out, Greece is toast.  I wonder if the Iranians would have any interest this time?...Nah, I'madinnerjacket is way to smart for that...

 

 

Sun, 10/03/2010 - 01:45 | 621808 Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture

+.00000000000000000069

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 15:16 | 621125 London Dude Trader
London Dude Trader's picture

 

FT - Greeks rush through law giving tax amnesties

By Kerin Hope in Athens and David Oakley in London

Published: September 30 2010 21:49 | Last updated: September 30

2010 21:49

Greece’s parliament has pushed through legislation that in effect grants a tax amnesty to millions of citizens, in a move at odds with organisations overseeing the country’s bail-out.

The law will allow the government to collect about €2bn ($3bn) overthe next two years, far short of an estimated backlog of unpaid taxes over the last decade of about €35bn.

 

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a85d7edc-ccd2-11df-a1eb-00144feab49a.html

 

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 15:22 | 621138 Leo Kolivakis
Leo Kolivakis's picture

Smartest move ever...China will make a killing and so will the Norwegians. The rest of the world is too worried about reputation risk to invest in Greece, so as usual, they will miss out. Ten-year Greek bonds are yielding 11%! What a fucking joke! I just visited the country and while things are bad, they are nowhere near as bad as the US media claims. And China should forge alliances with Greece, use their ports as a hub into Europe and develop solar farms to export energy to the all of Europe. I am long China, Chinese solars, Greek bonds and all you drama queens over here will be proven wrong!!!

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 15:45 | 621159 Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture

Leo, did they not just go belly up? They needed a huge bailout a few months ago & the banks are still insolvent ? They need outside financing to service this debt ?

But the media is wrong? <scratching my head>

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 15:52 | 621172 Leo Kolivakis
Leo Kolivakis's picture

And they got the bailout, implemented austerity measures, and they will eventually come back stronger. My point is that the current market yields on Greek bonds are an abomination. No US or Canadian pension fund has the guts to invest in Greek debt, so China is making the right move. They will profit from this and other projects they're financing in Greece.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 15:57 | 621176 lizzy36
lizzy36's picture

Leo, i will bet you, that in a maximum of 3 years, Greece will in some form or another default on their sovereign debt. There will be a restructring.

And come back stronger, how?

 

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 16:12 | 621190 Leo Kolivakis
Leo Kolivakis's picture

lizzy,

Greeks always come back stronger when the rest of the world counts them down...it's in our DNA to persevere and come back stronger. ;)

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 16:30 | 621203 Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture

Leo~

And they got the bailout, implemented austerity measures, and they will eventually come back stronger.

 

How can they come back when the gdp will drop with austerity and tax issues persist the austerity will not help this issue. They have the largest black market going next to turkey, will the rest of europe keep giving hard earned saving while the greek people run from taxation? Europe does not have a long history of *one big happy family*.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 23:56 | 621723 i-dog
i-dog's picture

"will the rest of europe keep giving hard earned saving while the greek people run from taxation?"

Pick me ... I know this one! ... ummmm, yes!

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 21:57 | 621611 Mark Noonan
Mark Noonan's picture

Leo,

It is physically impossible for the Greeks to pay back their debts - there aren't enough Greeks to do it.  Greece's population is set for a steep decline unless Greek women suddenly decide to have a lot of children...and even then it would take a generation for things to turn around in demographics.

Now, if your plan is to just buy some Greek bonds now and hope to unload them on an even greater fool a year or so down the road, then great...but Greece will default.  There is no way out.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 21:58 | 621612 Mark Noonan
Mark Noonan's picture

Leo,

It is physically impossible for the Greeks to pay back their debts - there aren't enough Greeks to do it.  Greece's population is set for a steep decline unless Greek women suddenly decide to have a lot of children...and even then it would take a generation for things to turn around in demographics.

Now, if your plan is to just buy some Greek bonds now and hope to unload them on an even greater fool a year or so down the road, then great...but Greece will default.  There is no way out.

Sun, 10/03/2010 - 10:33 | 622115 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

Leo: "We Greeks--especially we Canadian Greeks--are just genetically superior to the rest of you mongrels."

Suddenly I realize that Leo Papadopolous is an obnoxious jerk with a victim complex.

The "bailout" is hardly a bailout, Leo.  It just sank Greece deeper in debt and kicked the grenade down the road.  And Papandreou just shot the Greek shipbuilders to make room for COSCO.  China will end up holding Greece's leash.

Sun, 10/03/2010 - 10:48 | 622135 JMcLeod
JMcLeod's picture

Leo is absolutely right, the Greeks will bounce back... so it will at least appear... Michael Lewis' article in Vanity Fair has a few pointers of how it would be done...

http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/2010/10/greeks-bearing-bonds...

 

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 15:45 | 621160 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Leo, did you take off your rose colored glasses? Anything can appear grand. That is until you kick the tires.

How To Irritate People - The Car Salesman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9igQ18GIqvc

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 15:49 | 621167 taraxias
taraxias's picture

Fucktard alert!!!!!

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 15:52 | 621171 Millivanilli
Millivanilli's picture

It is this type of shit talk that makes you sound like a fucking idiot.  Calling people drama queens as sovereign defaults, credit collapse, geopolitical turmoil, currency/bond dislocations, and blatant fraud  occurs, confirms you as a first class jack ass.  

 

 

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 15:54 | 621175 Leo Kolivakis
Leo Kolivakis's picture

You're all falling for this "sky is falling" crap. Give me a break, you are all drama queens, but that's alright, we need people like you to make money. :)

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 16:07 | 621184 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

"Give me a break, you are all drama queens, but that's alright, we need people like you to make money. :)"

Wow Leo. Guess you didn't receive the memo. Financial industry will take a 30% haircut Q4 2010 & Q1 of 2011.

Repeating your words: 'we need people like you to make money. :)'

Answer: Didn't the real estate market tell us the same thing?

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 16:13 | 621192 Leo Kolivakis
Leo Kolivakis's picture

I read ZH every single day, but thank God I am independent minded and been reading this market right. Reflate & inflate, and keep buying the dips. Drama is fine for TV & movies, not your portfolio.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 17:25 | 621279 maddy10
maddy10's picture

yeah Greeks can never lose!!

Just the same way Icelanders thought!

Foolish europeans bought everything puked from wallstreet for a decade!

More than half of them work for the government collecting 14 month salaries for 10 month work and 2 month vacation,Paternity leaves while chinese work for 360 days in a year

Should start working instead of talking and protesting

Wake up Leo! there is no Alexanderos out there!

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 21:18 | 621575 skippy
skippy's picture

Not to worry Leo, the West plays *speed chess* and China plays *Go*, the West thinks in milliseconds (quick buck and off to the strip club) where China thinks in *decades* (ancestral forbearance)...eh.

Skippy...mental landmines everywhere (remember?), careful the proximity to whom you stand next too, BOOM.

PS. the faster you make it, the faster you spend it, its the American way, just look a the RE/CRE bubble...eh.  

Sun, 10/03/2010 - 12:00 | 622246 trav7777
trav7777's picture

If china is so long-thinking, why the fuck is their entire nation basically a toxic waste dump?

Cut the myth of Chinese exceptionalism, ok?  It's all bullshit

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 05:01 | 623491 nirvana
nirvana's picture

Well said Leo !! People are so obsessed with the 'sky is falling and we are all fcked' tirade , so obsessed with fantasies of seeing S&P at ZERO that they will loose every single opportunity to make money in this market.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 23:28 | 621695 Mariposa de Oro
Mariposa de Oro's picture

Leo, you should spend some time in various Obamavilles around the country.  Just tell them that you needed to make some money and to stop acting like drama queens.

Yeah, I junked you.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 15:57 | 621177 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

Leo the real question is, "will China buy bonds for less than 10% ?"

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 16:09 | 621186 SteveNYC
SteveNYC's picture

Looks to me like the Greek government is selling-out the Greek people for some quick-n-easy cash.

The Chinese are doing this (as it says above) with the intent of selling Greeks Chinese ships. Simply means less Greek shipbuilders will be required in future, unemployment higher, and a key Greek industry demolished.

All for some cheap and quick cash. Hollowing out the economy for Ben Bucks, awesome.

Sun, 10/03/2010 - 10:42 | 622127 JMcLeod
JMcLeod's picture

And Europe will be expected to stand in for the payment of those ships because when they need to be paid, the money the Greeks get from the Chinese will be gone.

 

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 17:07 | 621243 deepdish
deepdish's picture

http://www.dn.no/forsiden/borsMarked/article1895299.ece

Just to put things in perspective. The Norwegian Oil fund is +500 billion dollars. The 31th of December they had 1.7 billion dollar worth of greece bonds, primarly government bonds. That was actually lower exposure than reference index, and this is because the fund solf off PIGS papers last autumn worth 13.5 billion dollars.

 

As mister Slyngstad in the oil fund said to the papers in May:

- Too late to sell

 - We are locked in, "says the fund's chief executive Yngve Slyngstad.
 
Global sold from the Portuguese, Italian, Greek and Spanish government bonds for 80 billion late last autumn. But now it is not possible to sell more.
<>

- Now we're locked in, says fund chief Yngve Slyngstad to Dagens Næringsliv.

He is looking very seriously at the economic situation of the so-called pigs countries (Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain) in southern Europe. But he believes the fund has performed well against the mandate given by the Ministry of Finance.

Slyngstad shows that the Fund should only sit on half the amount of government bonds in these countries as the so-called benchmark index given by the Ministry of Finance indicate.

- Not possible to do something now
The oil fund sold off government bonds from pigs countries in spades last autumn. Securities worth 80 billion (13.5 billion dollars) was invested (the right word should be placed - deepdish) in the market mostly in October and November. At the end of last year, thus the fund down to 54 billion (9.1 billion dollars) in government debt from pigs countries. Slyngstad located entirely outside Ireland.

- The positions we are holding when the crisis are there, it is not possible to do something with. When is it too late to sell. Now it is not possible for a fund of our size to do anything, "said Slyngstad to DN.


Link to the article in Norwegian (I translated with Google translate):

http://www.dn.no/forsiden/borsMarked/article1895299.ece

 

And what do you guys think Slyngstad and the people in the Oil fund did when the ECB came with an emergency package to Greece? Well, they did not buy Greece, Portugese, Italian and Spanish bonds. They sold, obviously.

 

And now they are increasing the exposure again when the interest they will yield is higher than when they sold last autumn and right after the ECB rescue package. And they probably does not have an exposure that is higher to reference indexes.

 

I don't see this as a terrible management of one or two billion dollars in high risk bonds when comparing with the total value of the fund at +500 billion dollars.

 

Here is what the fund had invested at the end of last year:

Bonds: http://www.nbim.no/Global/Documents/Holdings/FI_holdings_SPU_Sorted_09.pdf

Stocks: http://www.nbim.no/Global/Documents/Holdings/EQ_holdings_SPU_Sorted_09.pdf

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 17:06 | 621246 monmick
monmick's picture

Can you remind me which pension funds you advise? There is something I need to check...

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 22:13 | 621620 Kayman
Kayman's picture

Leo

Why don't you show the emotion of your convictions once in a while.

This current political show certainly could not be a desperate debtor nation coddling up to an equally desperate exporting nation running out of places to dump their crap could it...

I sure would like to see the simple politics of China dumping more shit into Europe through the bottom of the toilet bowl- Greece.

Are you suggesting China is going to join the European Union or will Greece simply relabel all the Chinese Crap going through their ports.

Sun, 10/03/2010 - 04:32 | 621891 purple
purple's picture

China/Cosco administers the Greek ports; by expanding them they will overun European commerical goods like they have already in the U.S. In short, they are doubling down on their tried and true method of export warfare. It will work until it doesn't. Eventually there will be retaliation or the imbalances will grown so great the system will implode.

Sun, 10/03/2010 - 15:52 | 622640 all_in_now
all_in_now's picture

Leo you are one giant troll/asshole, just wonder if you are ever gonna learn a lesson when all this shit will swirl down the drain in a not so far distant future, will you ever admit to being an asshole?

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 15:50 | 621168 99er
99er's picture

Quote du Jour

"In the practical art of war, the best thing of all is to take the enemy's country whole and intact; to shatter and destroy it is not so good."

Sun Tse

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 16:10 | 621188 SteveNYC
SteveNYC's picture

Brilliant.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 16:20 | 621199 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

Good One....

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 22:39 | 621639 Pondmaster
Pondmaster's picture

Ah 99er , an excellent book , "The Art of War " , good quote use !

Sun, 10/03/2010 - 11:10 | 622172 99er
99er's picture

Spare Some Arrows?

During the most famous battle in Chinese history, fought during the Three Kingdoms period, the good guys are almost out of ammunition and risk defeat. The legendary general Zhuge Liang comes up with an idea (watch clip below). Every political figure in China knows this story; so should you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWYpK11LlrE

 

Sun, 10/03/2010 - 12:07 | 622260 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Was this where the Royal Navy sailed and shoved opium up their ass?

I'm tired of hearing ancient stories about how brilliant Chinese generals used Go and shit to outfox everybody and his mother.  China is now a ponzi slave labor camp.

Sun, 10/03/2010 - 19:29 | 622872 99er
99er's picture

Your comments remind me of those made by viscous, a juvenile delinquent from The Slope. Like this:

http://www.screencast.com/t/Mzc2ZjhiYmY

Please say something constructive.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 16:32 | 621206 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

For fuck sake folk's. Understand the their playbook. Railroads, cheap labor and new wars. Think Africa if you want to make money.

Globalization is nothing more than the constant search for cheap labour and the constant upgrading of infrastructure all across the earth. Thus improving the infrastructure of previously 'unindustrialized countries' and accessing a whole new ununionized labour pool. The new world's that are created and improved through road, rail, energy, and hospital projects that are built by huge multinational corporations and paid for by unwitting outside investors. Before all the public works' projects are completed there is a debasement to pay for the projects with outside investors' money because it was 'lost' during the stock market crash or crash of a company's stock (debasement of vehicle of monetary exchange).

During the debasement period the "inside" investors are selling short, 401k's/entitlements etc. are frozen until the company pays out whatever debts it can with whatever liquid it has left., then the company goes bankrupt, it's assets are filtered off to a subsidiary/holding co that was formed prior to debasement, the projects they were building get snapped up at fire sale prices. Now the projects are paid for, the companies get their money and the country gets its infrastructure for their people to work jobs cheaper than other people in the Old World will work them

Along the globalization trail, TPTB monopolize all the resources they can under corrupt regimes that most of the time they put into power. Then take control of all essential parts of the economy; food supply, energy and mineral resources, fresh water sources, precious stones, cash crops, telecom, and healthcare. The foreign multinational corporations use cheap labour to assemble their goods while owning all other utilities the people of the country use. Once the cheap labour and resources are exploited, the globalists pick up and start the search for a new land to build up. Every new world is built on the dollar of outside investors and tax payers. Outsourcing is the only way the king can afford the peasants wages.

It started with canals, ships, and marinas in olden days and evolved into railroads, locomotives, then into trucks and roads, and most recently aviation. Every logistic means throughout history has been payed for by the outside investor through the use of debasements. Bubbles are built up on the word that 'the good times will never end' and popped on 'we never saw this coming' - all made possible by governments pretending to fail all across the world. All three tiers of government (soon to be four; federal, state, municipal, and soon, Union) are chalked full of failures.

The same groups of companies get the contracts for foreign nation building, usually spawned off each other, tracing their way back to a group of banks that operate throughout the world. These companies debase vehicles of monetary exchange (stocks and stock markets). Most of them having intimate ties with the World Bank. The financiers' of globalization stay the same. Once projects are completed and economies successfully debased, wars are waged to pay for economic recovery and fulfill whatever geopolitical agenda these global financiers have. After the era of fraud there is a period of boom and the cycle repeats itself, the size of the war usually depends on the size of the debasement that preceded it.

Once the Vehicle of Monetary Exchange is debased, the stolen money is laundered through various organizations (charities, non-profits, Legatus, museums). Once the money has been laundered there needs to be a war to destroy the paper trail (the fog of war) so they need an event to set off the war. If multiple countries' economies are down, it will be a global war (each country fighting with it's favourite enemy). At this time the financial sector will air its laundry, and we'll start hearing about frauds and accounting errors. This will lead to federal bodies (FINRA, SEC) bringing cases against the scapegoats (Skilling, Conrad Black) and we will have show trials with show judges (Crater, Landis). The trials will bring justice to the 'rogue conspirators and that's that.

The new bubbles are usually being built up as the current bubble is popping. These bubbles are allowed to happen through manipulation of laws. In America, the crash (era's of fraud) usually coincides with the end of one presidency and the start of another and occur every 4 years. In the lame duck sessions of a presidency, all previous corporate criminals get pardons. This timeline repeats itself throughout history.

 

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 16:58 | 621238 Reese Bobby
Reese Bobby's picture

A lot of people avoid crazy.  But I rate it.  You get an 8.25 on the 1-10 crazy scale.  You scored high on "makes no sense," and "that thought process is disturbing."  But you lost points for "no violent threats," and "I doubt this is the next Unibomber."  But a solid effort...

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 17:10 | 621254 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Thank you for a rating.

The Grand Design - World Government 1968 PT-1 of 8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_JGwtBpMHM&feature=related


World Economic Outlook (WEO)Recovery, Risk, and Rebalancing

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2010/02/index.htm

Reese Bobby, sometimes 8.25 rating becomes your IQ.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 17:34 | 621294 Reese Bobby
Reese Bobby's picture

o.k.  You have as sense of humor.  That takes you down to a 7.75; sorry, true whackos have no sense of humor.  But the good news is that the vidoe of the 60's surrender monkey brings you right back to the original 8.25!  So no harm done.

Merda taurorum animas conturbit!

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 17:38 | 621307 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

When you arrive at my door to barter for sex. My door will close.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 17:45 | 621318 Reese Bobby
Reese Bobby's picture

So I got that goin' for me, which is nice...

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 17:12 | 621261 Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture

Instant Classic

Sun, 10/03/2010 - 14:28 | 622502 linrom
linrom's picture

I like your post. Very perceptive thesis.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 16:36 | 621214 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

Question:

The Euro is already overextended.

Is this news already baked in?

Or will the Euro run away to the upside and get even more stretched?

And now that this Greek "convulsion" has been sedated for now, does that mean the safety trade in bonds is over?

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 17:00 | 621239 Leo Kolivakis
Leo Kolivakis's picture

Robo,

The answer to your question is RISK ON!!!

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 17:10 | 621257 Reese Bobby
Reese Bobby's picture

I am so sorry or your loss, mourning woman.  Try and be brave.  There must be another guy out there somewhere...

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 17:14 | 621266 Leo Kolivakis
Leo Kolivakis's picture

she's mourning the death of shorties like you...

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 17:34 | 621295 maddy10
maddy10's picture

Dangerous 'Leo'sons

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 17:55 | 621347 Reese Bobby
Reese Bobby's picture

Leo hates me.  I can check that off my list!

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 18:05 | 621363 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

She's all dressed up for Pitch Black Thursday. The day the market created a  perfect einstein black body. 2 orders of magnitude past emo and cutters, 3 orders of magnitude past goth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIDnQrriyWg&feature=relate

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 20:33 | 621535 AUD
AUD's picture

Impressive fall in 3m German bund 'prices' last week.

Hot money is on the move.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 16:48 | 621223 Threeggg
Threeggg's picture

"US set to issue terror warnings for it's citizens in Europe"

42 minutes ago

Its on like Donky ?

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/

 

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 17:08 | 621251 Reese Bobby
Reese Bobby's picture

Politics 101:  Stir up fear of outside threats pre-election.  I'm pretty sure Americans have had a potential bullseye on their backs for some time now.

 

Which reminds me of a key question.  The U.S.A. used to be known as crazy ass-kickers 25+ years ago.  Now we apoligize for that legacy?  I say we shoul want to be viewed as the crazy "guy."  Think back to high school.  Wasn't there always a guy who seemed to deserve a beating but was WAY too tough and crazy to mess with?  Simply no way you would go there...  That is the proper model for the U.S.  Except we can then confuse people with conflicting generosity, (thing Gotti and turkeys).

 

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 18:51 | 621428 Conrad Murray
Sat, 10/02/2010 - 22:08 | 621617 Bob
Bob's picture

I think Americans are violently opposed to apologies for wrongs as a matter of "character." 

But about Gotti and turkeys, I'm confused.  I think of us as being expert turkey givers . . . though the world does not seem confused anymore, since the turkeys have turned out too rotten for consumption. 

At this point, I'm wondering how many more "crazy ass-kickings" we can afford to deliver.  Not only does it cost us a million times more than it does our poorly armed opponents, but it tends to make us very unpopular.  Especially with the shortcoming we have in the apologies department, e.g., killing a million Iraquis for WMD's that were nothing but US government lies. 

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 17:38 | 621306 macholatte
macholatte's picture

Panic!

The only thing that can trump the Fed's meddling.

 

The panic attacks - I still have them. They started when I was around 8. They always have to do with my death.
Patty Duke

 

I use emotion for the many and reserve reason for the few.
Adolf Hitler

 

 

 

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 17:05 | 621247 qussl3
qussl3's picture

China just opened pandora's box. How soon before the rest of Europe not named Germany comes hat in hand?

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 17:15 | 621256 Leo Kolivakis
Leo Kolivakis's picture

Fuck Germany! I said it all along that Greeks and other southern European nations should forge alliances with China, and let the Germans be. Germany takes care of Germany and ECB policy was way too geared to the German economy, killing the periphery. Enough already. Greeks are doing the right thing because let me tell you, Germans don't give a flying fuck about Greeks, Italians, Spaniards or Portuguese.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 17:28 | 621285 AccreditedEYE
AccreditedEYE's picture

C'mon Leo!! Greece should start with the basics first for God's sake... like the whole "work ethic" thing.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 17:33 | 621289 Leo Kolivakis
Leo Kolivakis's picture

Greeks work and party harder than anyone in Europe:

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 17:35 | 621298 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

You call that work?  I want a job like that!

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 17:37 | 621304 maddy10
maddy10's picture

NATO to CEUTO[china-EU]

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 19:40 | 621476 Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture

Most Greeks work as little as possible. However, Greek men will do anything for a northern European piece of ass and boast to their friends after he summer is over  

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 19:50 | 621488 Leo Kolivakis
Leo Kolivakis's picture

And how does this make Greek men different from other European men? By the way, it shows that you haven't been to Greece lately. The hottest asses aren't from Northern Europe but Eastern Europe. And the hottest asses of all remain 100% Greek:

http://www.uncoached.com/2009/02/27/15-greek-women-that-you-should-be-bookmarking/

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 20:48 | 621548 Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture

Oh! Leo, I surrender.

Greek women do get the honours.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 20:16 | 621515 Bob
Bob's picture

Leo, I've never junked you; I admire your pluckiness and am thankful for you enduring in your role as antagonist.  You keep us from the perversity of inbreeding.  

But I gotta say, the girls were cute and it's nice to know they do Spring Break in Greece, but this video in no way measured up to the pulsing porno sound track.  Lame try, man. 

Please go back to where you were yesterday when you found the pic of the babe with the oh so godly ass and replot your course from there.  You were showing some real promise. 

Gotta agree with you about the deal with China--great for both parties.  China can afford to lose the money,  if it comes to that--especially if it involves a transfer of worthless US Treasuries. 

Americans scorning Greece is kind of funny, when you think about it. 

But, again, please work harder on the eye candy. 

Thanks.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 20:35 | 621520 Leo Kolivakis
Leo Kolivakis's picture

Bob,

You obviously didn't click on the link above:

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 20:37 | 621539 Bob
Bob's picture

That's better--gotta love a pretty "bad" girl. 

Keep up the good work, Leo!

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 22:45 | 621646 dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

Leo

Are you a little heavy into the coke tonight.  Every country can produce pictures of 15 year olds in Victoria's Secret and say look at our beutiful little whores.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 23:19 | 621689 IQ 145
IQ 145's picture

 I call this type of but, "pig buns"; it's completely unacceptable. Unless this is a contest for trannies.

Sun, 10/03/2010 - 01:58 | 621811 The Real Fake E...
The Real Fake Economy's picture

nose jobs?  yeah, I think so.  But yes, smart move by China.

Sun, 10/03/2010 - 18:14 | 622802 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Excellent work, Leo!  Thanks.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 23:32 | 621700 zoomer
zoomer's picture

Because of all the flaming of Leo earlier , I wanted to post that Leo was really Tyler and he was using "Leo" to work the crowd. This vidieo posting proves it!

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 23:34 | 621701 zoomer
zoomer's picture

Because of all the flaming of Leo earlier , I wanted to post that Leo was really Tyler and he was using "Leo" to work the crowd. This video posting proves it!

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 17:53 | 621337 qussl3
qussl3's picture

And this is going to help with pathological tax evasion and wanton spending? Doesn't change the fact that the Greeks can't pay what they owe and will eventually default or drop the euro. Only thing this does is give other euro pols incentive to engage in fx chicken with china - give us moola or we'll default and blow up the euro banks, then what? China single handedly underwrites the EFSF? What would you do now if you were the Irish? If China ain't gonna let Greece go they can pay for Anglo Irish, fuck this austerity BS. Gonna be fun

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 18:01 | 621353 Leo Kolivakis
Leo Kolivakis's picture

...tell that to the Germans who single-handedly screwed up the Eurozone by first adopting an easy policy after reunification and the German real estate collapse, and then adopted a strong policy to fight the inflation boogeyman that never existed!!!

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 18:15 | 621377 qussl3
qussl3's picture

Why the obsession with the krauts?

Sure the Germans looked out for themselves first, the Greeks are the same no? What did you expect?

Do you think china is giving Greece charity?

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 18:22 | 621391 Leo Kolivakis
Leo Kolivakis's picture

Because as far as I can tell Germany benefited the most from the Eurozone and now that the shit has hit the fan, they want out. Fuck'em!

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 18:57 | 621430 qussl3
qussl3's picture

Seems like the Germans simply outcompeted the rest of the eurozone and exported her way to prosperity while the Greeks leeched off the German industrial engine to go borrow on the cheap for years. The average German works longer and retires later and you claim they are screwing the Greeks? So it's the Germans fault that that they kick butt. WTF I get it you're Greek but seriously, wouldn't you be pissed if your deadbeat neighbor has mooched off your credit cards and now wants to stick you with the bill? Then proceeds to call you a tightwad when you point out that while you were busting your ass he was suntanning and hiding his pool from the IRS?

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 19:53 | 621466 Leo Kolivakis
Leo Kolivakis's picture

Give it a rest, why did Germans support the Eurozone? They knew Greece and other nations couldn't compete but still went ahead and lend them billions. Very simple reason was to support their milary industrial complex and their own export markets. And it's simply a myth that Germans work longer than Greeks, Italians and Spaniards. A complete and utter myth which is not based on facts. As far as pensions, there I give it to Germans, and Greece had to increase the retirement age.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 21:35 | 621592 IslandMan
IslandMan's picture

It's not that the Germans work longer than the Greeks, Italians and Spaniards.  It's just that they work.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 21:37 | 621594 IslandMan
IslandMan's picture

It's not that the Germans work longer than the Greeks, Italians and Spaniards.  It's just that they work.

Sun, 10/03/2010 - 02:07 | 621820 qussl3
qussl3's picture

It's all the German's fault, damn their innovation, damn their manufacturing, damn their saving households; we the borrowers have a right to the fruits of their labor.

You just summed up the entitlement mentality that got us all into this mess. Nobody forced Greece to borrow, it was a deliberate decision taken because pols often prioritize short term outcomes over long term planning.

Hey it's great for Greece inc that china has gotten involved but Greek workers might not be so enamoured.

But fuck the little guy as long as my solars pop.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 23:22 | 621692 IQ 145
IQ 145's picture

  It's the Germans' fault? Wow, this is pretty funny; zero hedge takes the place of Saturday Night Live.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 22:27 | 621630 Kayman
Kayman's picture

And of course China cares for Leo and the Greeks. Desperate country and desperate reasoning Leo.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 23:50 | 621716 merehuman
merehuman's picture

Speaking for Germany, those people WORK, you  money slut

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 17:34 | 621292 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

This is significant news.

China has a history (much like previous imperial powers) of establishing "friendly" business relationships with client-states that it knows in advance are going to fail or default.

When the friendly financial deal falls through, China offers adjustment of terms for the express purpose of achieving physical access to the client-state's natural resources.  In the case of this deal with Greece, the most likely outcome will be privileged access to the Greek shipping industry and eventual hard and fast control of its most prized port resources.

Greece just signed a deal with a new Godfather.  Best of luck to them with that.

Very interesting.  This doesn't bode well for the survival of the Eurozone relationships.

 

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 17:42 | 621315 Leo Kolivakis
Leo Kolivakis's picture

China is smart, and they should forge more relationships with other southern European countries. Watch my solar theme is taking place right before our eyes...BEAUTIFUL!!!

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 18:05 | 621364 qussl3
qussl3's picture

China IS smart, and you think the Greeks will come out ahead here?

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 18:23 | 621393 Leo Kolivakis
Leo Kolivakis's picture

I don't think, I KNOW they'll come out ahead...watch.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 23:52 | 621718 merehuman
merehuman's picture

Leo, what you think will happen when China pegs its yuan to gold?

Think hard about the new masters!

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 20:52 | 621554 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Maybe I went blind staring at your solar picks, 'cause I ain't seein' much there.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 17:37 | 621300 AccreditedEYE
AccreditedEYE's picture

For all intents and purposes, this is equivalent to Buffett buying a stake in Goldman, or convertible preferred in GE

China wishes it could collect as well as Buffett did on those deals. More trade for China aside, what a SHITTY investment! Hey China, btw, we have a long line of people to see you  hat in hand now that your 1st deal is complete... what a joke.

Everyone sees the charts, tipping points are near and they fight desperately now.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 17:46 | 621320 London Dude Trader
London Dude Trader's picture

What a load of crap. I've been to Greece many times. It's a fucked-up country which until recently has prospered because of institutionalized cheating and lying by its citizens. Now that the law-abiding northern Europeans have woken up to the fact that the Greek liars are not to be trusted it's game over for Greece. Their best bet is to be annexed to some oil-rich Arab country. 

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 17:51 | 621333 Leo Kolivakis
Leo Kolivakis's picture

"law-abiding northern Europeans"...ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 19:19 | 621458 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Londonistan *is* an annex of the same Arab countries you speak of.

Same as most of Europe.

People should know when they are conquered.

 

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 23:40 | 621706 zoomer
zoomer's picture

Or China.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 18:19 | 621389 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Central Bankers have two paths to take in order to kick the can down the road.

Frank Kitson's low intensity operations

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_K._Van_Riper

Prisoner's dilemma

http://epress.anu.edu.au/cs/chap5Newth-final-10.jpg

Do you remember last nights secrets with TAPI Pipeline?

Follow the rabbit hole. This has nothing to do with left or right wing thinking, rather than a Central Bankers shell game to raise monies to develop new infrastructure by fleecing the global market. Wash, rinse and repeat.

Empire Of Oil: The Hidden History

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6702050570069604257#

You decide sheeple

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 18:26 | 621397 litoralkey
litoralkey's picture

How is this any different than the German and other European consortiums requiring GReece to pay off existing contracts for future delivery of military hardware?

 

http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2010/09/16/how-much-are-weapons-burdening-the-greek-economy/

 

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,5890375,00.html

 

http://atlantic-council.ca/?p=1662

 

In this light, the Chinese are at least performing non-violent and economically beneficial contracts with Greece, while Germany is using Greece to maintain it's military-industrial complex.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 18:30 | 621403 Leo Kolivakis
Leo Kolivakis's picture

+100000000000000000000000000000000!!!!!

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 18:44 | 621420 Dollar Bill Hiccup
Dollar Bill Hiccup's picture

Greece schmeece, that pony has run. Let's see if Chairman Mao will saddle up to some Guinness bonds ...

Why not, the west coast makes for lovely vacation homes.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 18:51 | 621425 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

It's all an illusion for the ripe taxes to be picked up by the peasants.

Terror attacks, National Security, FEAR, and losing personal rights in the name of New World Government.

Our landlord is not happy on how the money is getting divided up. His share is not the amount the hand shake agreement was based on.

China says U.S. yuan bill could harm ties

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE68S0NJ20100930

Goodnight ZHer's. Another great job Tyler & staff.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 22:32 | 621634 Kayman
Kayman's picture

So for China, Greece is going to replace Walmart.  I do not think so.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 19:18 | 621457 10044
10044's picture

I am now convinced Leo is a Greek pension fun
d manager. Just how do you explain all the defense in this post?

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 21:02 | 621557 Bob
Bob's picture

He seems to have a different perspective from most posters here on Greece.  Perhaps it's his Greek heritage that makes him less susceptable to the easy goup ridicule of Greece meme.  But, then again, he does appear more intimately informed about Greece than the rest of us.  This would make some sense of your suspicion about him being a Greek manager.  Of course, it could be that he just works harder to stay on top of that particular subject and takes advantage of his personal interest and the access that his connections in the country provide.  I would guess that he speaks the language. 

The defensiveness, on the other hand, seems to me the obviously natural response to the intensity of vitriol he so often encounters here.  For God's sake, yesterday someone wished him to die as quickly as possible, and received fewer junks for that than Leo did for his simple financial opinions. 

I mean, think about it.  He collects far more junks than he deserves . . . unless we really are that mean spirited and violently invested in GroupThink. 

 

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 22:38 | 621637 Kayman
Kayman's picture

Bob

The key word is THINK.  Do you really see the thread of a thought process in Leo thumping on about a $5 billion dollar self-serving China deal with Greece is somehow going to jump start a moribund Debtor Nation.

Just asking.

p.s. If Leo talks junk he can expect to be junked. Why does he keep posting unless all he is trying to do is talk the Chinese Solar and Greek bond book....

Sun, 10/03/2010 - 00:23 | 621745 Bob
Bob's picture

Sounds like we have a different philosophy about junking.  I reserve them for stuff that is unconscionable, say, white supremacist rantings and such.  But I realize that others use it differently. 

What stands out to me in the case of Leo is that he's being pummeled by the gratuitous drive-by junkers who make no case and, only a little better, argued against with seething contempt by those who bother. 

I think respect should be maintained, allowing for the exceptions that we all fall victim to.  I think too many people have surrendered to their worst impulses in Leo's case and are now supporting one another in the effort with the excuse that he is somehow making them do it. 

I can't buy it.  Other "contrarians" post, and I think it's a healthy thing for us all that they continue to do so.  They don't reap anything like what Leo gets for his efforts.  I expect more honorable even-handedness and restraint from men. 

And that's about the most I can say on this issue.  I don't mean to insult anybody, just telling it how I see it.  Won't be doing it again, either.  I'm not Leo's protector . . . just felt that I should express myself to satisfy a moral duty. 

Which is now complete.   

Have a good night.

Sat, 10/02/2010 - 23:59 | 621727 merehuman
merehuman's picture

great minds think alike and leo is the contrarian who would have us lose our wallets and good sense. Fiat is burning and any money made now is likely fools gold yet Leo would have us believing the great invisible  green shoots of fantasy.

I think he is a bullshit  artist with a parttime governmet gig. Lol

Admittedly i dont know shit.

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