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Step Aside US: Pakistan's New "Best Friend" China, To Provide Karachi With 50 New JF-17 Fighter Jets On Expedited Basis
There was a time when a young Mujahideen commander named Osama bin Laden was a core ally of the US in the fight against Soviet communism and central planning. Well, that particular affair did not end too well for either Osama, nor for the USSR (although one may argue that "communism and central planning" are experiencing a second renaissance courtesy of capitalist central banking). Along the same lines, Pakistan which as recently as 3 weeks ago was considered a core US ally, has very promptly fallen out of favor following the death of that other abovementioned former ally. Yet Pakistan is not wasting time. Two days after Pakistani PM Yousuf Raza Gilani took a direct stab at deteriorating US-Paki relations by saying that China is now his country's "best friend", China has retorted in kind by announcing it will provide another 50 JF-17 fighter jets to Pakistan on an "expedited" basis. The WSJ reports that "the agreement to accelerate supply of the jointly developed jets, the first 50 of which are being assembled in Pakistan, came as Pakistan's Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani held talks in Beijing during a visit that he has used to portray China as an alternative source of military and civilian aid. "We're getting the 50 jets, on top of the ones we already have. Something has been agreed in Beijing, so they'll be expedited" he said." In other words: step aside US, here comes China. As for those billions in USD aid which somehow never ended up being used to buy US Treasurys (Pakistan is nowhere in the listing of US Treasury holders) , it is now clear into whose pocket they are going (at $15 million a pop, those are big pockets). Lastly, this is more than just posturing by China: the country is clearly indicating its latest and greatest sphere of influence. As a reminder, "It was reported in 2008 that Azerbaijan and Zimbabwe had placed orders for the aircraft and nine other countries, including Bangladesh, Myanmar, Egypt, Iran, Lebanon, Malaysia, Morocco, Nigeria, Sri Lanka and Algeria were showing interest."
More from the WSJ:
China is Pakistan's biggest arms supplier and its third-biggest trading partner.
The JF-17 is a potent symbol of the two countries' friendship, and a key part of Pakistan's plans to upgrade its aging fleet of American-supplied F-16s and French-made Mirages and to try to match the air power of neighboring India—its arch rival.
The U.S. has repeatedly delayed delivery of F-16s to Pakistan, and has insisted that they not be used against India, with which Washington is now cultivating a strategic partnership to counterbalance Beijing's clout in Asia.
China and Pakistan began developing the relatively cheap multipurpose fighter in 1999 and Pakistan, which has said it wants 250 of them altogether, inducted its first squadron of JF-17s last year, and a second earlier this year.
The air-force spokesman said he did not know whether the second batch of 50 jets would be assembled in Pakistan or delivered whole from China.
He also declined to discuss whether they would be the basic so-calledBlock I models, like the first batch, or an upgraded Block II version, which military aviation experts say could include radar-evading stealth technology—potentially giving Pakistan that capability for the first time.
Questions also remain over the new jets' engines. The first batch were all fitted with Russian ones, but Russian officials have expressed reservations about supplying more of those engines as Pakistan and China have been marketing the JF-17 in many of Russia's traditional markets.
Meanwhile back in the US, the politicos are stunned that after being shunned by the US, Pakistan dares to allign itself with America's natural opposite.
Pakistan's efforts to showcase its close ties with China are causing consternation in the U.S.
During a hearing of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee Tuesday, Republican Senator Jim Risch of Idaho expressed frustration at Mr. Gilani's statement that China was Pakistan's "best friend" despite billions of dollars of U.S. aid over the last decade.
"It just—it just doesn't make sense...Because, frankly, I'm—I'm getting tired of it, and I think Americans are getting tired of it as far as shoveling money in there [to] people who just flat don't like us," he said, according to a transcript.
At a hearing of the House Foreign Affairs Committee last week, Congressman Michael McCaul (R) of Texas raised particular concern about whether U.S. military aid had been diverted into the JF-17 program.
Yes. It has.
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Probably as good as those Chinese made atvs you can buy down at the auto parts store.
You sound like the guy that lost his girlfriend to one of his buddies.. Ohhh yeah... she's no good.. Let her have him... whatever...
Ohhh.. but yeah.. The U.S. is quite credible in its dealings with nations that have a majority of Muslims.. garbage
Depends. How many ounces are in an JF-17. >500? Now that a damn fine plane.
Well, quit bombing and murdering their civilians with drones... you corrupt, worthless Senate fucktard...
Nice. You beat me to it by 3 minutes.
I believe Obama, as commander in chief, orders the strikes.
And get the fuck out of a region of the world you have no business being in.
Between GWoT and the age old tensions in Kashmir (and MENA, of course), infinite trip-wires begin to emerge. It's starting to look like the world's largest wrestle royal rumble, EVAH!
After all is said and done, there may not be a single set of allied nations left.
So, clearing the decks for the inevitable ascension of the UN? Because... wait for it... somebody has to do SOMETHING!
"It just—it just doesn't make sense...Because, frankly, I'm—I'm getting tired of it, and I think Americans are getting tired of it as far as shoveling money in there [to] people who just flat don't like us," he said, according to a transcript.
Maybe if we just stopped bombing their villages with drones, they would like us more. Or at least stop hating us.
Hey junker, I guess you like it when a drone kills an entire family celebrating a wedding, huh? Hell has a nice warm place for you, loser.
And he better buy that property in hell ASAP.. Cheney, Rumsfeld and the other neo-cons will be there soon and they've made a ton of money the past 10 years... They will be buying up all the good spots..
How's that Smart Diplomacy working out for you?
Is that question directed at Switzerland? Anything smart or diplomatic has been banned in USSA since 1860.
Of all the nations on the face of the Earth, only the US routinely takes policies counter to its best interests.
I predict that will change, when even the most idiotic Liberal finally understands that nothing the US does will makes its enemies happy. Enemies like the EU.
I have strong feeling that AfPak conflict has become a war between Pentagon and state department. Pentagon is not ready to let go B$350 yearly income.
I've been thinking for some time that the next nuclear conflict would be between India and Pakistan.
Now it seems to me we have another proxy war brewing:
US supports India, China supports Pakistan. FOUR nuclear capable countries.
Shit meet fan.
"Now shit... don't go hittin' fan all of a sudden."
lol
Seems like China and India are starting to warm up relations:
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/indochina-relationship-globally-significant-p...
this guy seems to be the only politician in india that not corrupt.
Any friendship between india-china-pakistan will be heavily resisted by the MIC.
Most of the indian national media is controlled by the west.
Johng:
I've been thinking for some time that the next nuclear conflict would be between India and Pakistan.
XXXXXXXX
When was the first nuclear conflict? Doesn't a conflict imply two sides participating?
If you are refering to Hiroshima and Nagasaki.. that was one country with atomic bombs and the other not.....not much of a conflict.
I feel sorry for India. When India was in bed (air-bed) with USSR it deflated and when she slipped in American bed ( air-bed), it deflated and found her self on the floor once again. Most stupid thing India is doing since long is not friendly with their neighbors.
I think America will be in economic troubles before any nuclear conflict. I read some where that china is co-operating Pakistan (intercontinental ballistic missile technology) with space exploration technology..
More like.. US supports India, Russia supports China, China supports Pakistan, FIVE nuclear capable countries.
I like the word consterratation or however you spell it.
As long as we need Pakistan's port facilities they have us over a barrel.
what do you need their port facilities for? You are not welcome there...period!
Afghanistan is land locked.
Shipping is still the way you supply a war effort.
We -- the US -- are stupid.
How do you dare have an opinion on Pak/Afghanistan and not know this simple truth?
You are fighting what in Pak/afgh except the encroaching shadows of you own decline?
Can't blame me for that.
I advocated the Eisenhower doctrine.
Nuke 'em and let God sort them out.
The MIC had other plans.
You know, a guy like you makes enemies in every country he goes to. 'Cos his greatest enemy is himself. You will never stop hating others until you stop hating yourself, which is the same as excessively loving a non existent vision of yourself. Told you, that if you'd been to Viet, you've lost your bearings. Find them inside you and stop blaming others.
In a world where looking out for your own best interests makes enemies, I can live with that.
Better than the alternatives.
You libs are idiots. You will not buy friends by sucking the dick of your would-be dominators. They will only despise you.
Twat.
over and out "Soldier"
If you think the word "Soldier" is defamatory, your opinion means nothing to me.
Carry on.
I dont think the word is defamatory at all, just that you are a disgrace to the profession.
Soldiers are what soldiers do. Mai Lai was soldierly. So was Omaha Beach. Big difference...
What "war effort?" I don't need any port facilities in Uzpakistan, and I don't want to be in any "we" with you. I hope anything "you" are involved in perishes. And kindly stop stealing my money.
I oppose nation building.
But, if we are there, we need to acknowledge logistics.
If you just want the US to fail, fuck off.
Hey Rat, pick a side for gods sakes
I take the side of the soldier.
I do not automatically take the side of government.
If .gov puts them in harm's way I will support them.
We have no business being in Afghanistan. It is bankrupting the United States, and it appears to only serve as some sort of giant paintball course for the likes of you, either in fantasy or actuality. I'm no liberal, if you knew what it meant to be a believer in limited government, you would also stop supporting these idiotic, pith-helmet adventures. People here also know that I'm no fan of the mullahs and all the rest... I just want the U.S. to mind its own business and STOP taxing me so damn much!!!!
Nation building is the con.
I oppose it.
Dust off and nuke them from orbit. It is the only way to be sure.
But why? What for? Poison our own air/water/soil, to prove a point? I say, STOP all Mooslim immigration to the U.S., and sic the FBI on the ass of any of them here that try anything funny. Terrorists, after conviction by a jury of their peers, get life hard labor in Alaska, or a bullet in the back of the head. Take your pick. Cheap, effective, less pesky nuclear fallout.
The US is so polluted by PC we can't even profile the usual suspects, like every other nation on the face of the Earth. And then everyone hates on the TSA because they do monumentally stupid, yet governmentally approved bullshit like pat downs of children.
We are our own worst enemy. Might as well nuke them, since we are self-destructing. What is there really to lose?
There are so many moose limbs in this country now they don't need IEDs. All they have to do is buy a weapon and agree on a date.
You are right about our failure to police our borders. We can only hope that the FBI is on the ball..... and we must exercise our Second Amendment right to self-defense. It is no coincidence that the towel types target planes, mil bases, other areas where Americans are disarmed.
The FBI's mandate is to support the status quo. They could give a shit about the law.
The Military's brass sold its soul to PC.
The easy times are coming to an end.
idiotic, pith-helmet adventurers
Are you talking to ME? I know idiotic, pith-helmet adventurers. Rodent Freikorps is no idiotic, pith-helmet adventurer. He's not even on our mailing list.
I've seen the future brother, and it's murder.
-Leonard Cohen
JF-17. Not a worry. J-10 (or SU-30) is another story.
It wouldn't make a difference. How much combat experience do the pilots, generals, officers or their entire military complex have? Particularly vs a country who isn't a push over? Do you really think the US should be concerned in the air with any thing, any country makes just off of experience alone?
Considering the US has had a constant stream of flight combat experience since the beginning of the airplane I'd say we don't have to worry about that (ontop of the extremely superior technology).
Don't be so sure. We haven't had air-to-air combat with modern fighters since Vietnam. No way to know how we'd do against these guys.
We haven't? The first Iraq war if we want to talk about "modern." We even shot down a plane or two recently in Libya.
Excuse my smugness but you don't seriously believe that do you? No way to know how we'd do against the Pakistanis? Do you really think the training, and level of difficulty of being a pilot in this country is, that they'd have a remote ounce of a chance?
Yeah we may have not had "constant air to air" engagements since Vietnam, but they've had combat experience a plenty, to include SAM encursions. Ontop of that do you really think any of their planes would ever even get OFF the ground?
We've been training our military like we were going to WW3 with an industrialized nation for decades, (at a pretty penny to the tax payer), it would take a lot for me to believe they'd be able to down a single plane (with enemy fire).
Neither of those were modern air forces. Saddam has twenty year old Soviet planes, and Libya wasn't much better.
These are not old Soviet planes. They are modern. We have never fought anything like them in real combat. These planes would have been superior to ours at least as late as the 1980's. We might have the superior planes, but I wouldn't count on our 100:1 kill ratio holding out against them, any more than I would think that about the French, Israeli, or Saudi Arabian air forces.
We were surprised at the superiority of our armored force in GWI, we might be surprised in the other direction by foreign developments soon, especially coming from China.
As the Chinese just come out and say "we are no match for you." They just got their FIRST aircraft carrier. I have less faith in the chinese being "amazing" pilots as say... Russia. Remember during Clinton with their military pilots that like to crash into our C130s because they're a bunch of morons?
The Saudi Arabian air force is a complete and utter joke. Want to know how they become pilots? Be a son to a rich daddy.
You need to swing with some more military pilots. Our pilots have literally flown combat missions nonstop for a friggin decade.
To be fair, aircraft carriers are for force projection, something the Chinese have had no need for.
I doubt there are any "amazing" pilots outside of Western militaries. But reading just now on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_Air_Force), I see that the previously reported 44:0 kill ratio we saw over their skies has been downgraded to 23:4 or 5 (the last one may have been lost to ground fire).
So, yeah, don't underestimate your enemy unless you want to lose planes and pilots.
Now thats a statement we can agree on.
Yes we have.
Iraqi pilots ejected, or flew to Iran rather than face the US fighters in the air.
No shit.
Uhhh, yeah, because they weren't flying modern planes. They were flying secondhand shitboxes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_Air_Force). Maybe these are shitboxes, maybe not, but they are NEW.
Simply writing off enemy forces is not good military strategy. Not until you are sure they can be safely written off.
Nobody is writing off anything, trust me. I can appreciate your pessimism and cautious assessment (somebody has to have it). In saying, that from my experience (personal and otherwise) and research if pakistan ever got into a battle with the US or India they would be completely annihilated. (They don't even really have a functioning military). Particularly by the US. We have got the whole "shut down airpower" thing figured out QUITE well. Thats how we work, so I'd be more than shocked if their piddly bullshit "air power" would be able to last longer, than say 48 hours.
Experience and numbers might make a serious difference in "traditional" conflicts. (which i'd say airpower is a "traditional" conflict). They have neither.
Don't think of tomorrow's wars in terms of yesterday's toys...
hope the motherfuckers dont start another war just to find out who has the better planes.
lol, they should learn to sing that good ole song :
Sixteen tons of F-16 shit and what do you get?
Another day older and deeper in debt!
Saint Peter don't you call me as I can't cum
I owe my soul to the Chinese speak-easy store.
Johnny Cash - The Man Comes Around
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9IfHDi-2EA
Asymmetric warfare. They will use their airpower only where they have a tactical advantage with it, which would be against weak (read: soft) ground targets. You'd have to be stupid (or a double agent type) to risk them against a superior force.
True dogfights ended once Tom Cruise popularized them.
The Iraqis did have some front-line fighters for the time (1991) in the Mig-29. But they chose to preserve them by flying them to bases in Iran, which always made me chuckle because I'm SURE the Iranians were going to give them right back as soon as Desert Storm blew over. Come to think of it, they're probably still there dressed in Iranian AF livery now. :-)
I agree with you that writing off the Pakis is foolish. The JF-17 is not only derived from the F-16 (if you look at it you'll see it is nothing more than an F-16 with a Mirage 2000 cockpit and intake system).....but the Pakis also fly actual F-16's!!
Besides, every time hubristic sentiment towards an adversary takes over, a surprise ass-whuppin' is never far behind. Better to assume your enemies are flying sky ninjas and prepare accordingly.
The USAF F-15 Eagle recorded several kills over Serbia during the Milosevic era against MiG-29s.
Bernanke, Congress and Obama may destroy us. I fear no foreign air force.
Duplicate sorry
+1
Where were these oh-so-experienced-pilots on 9/11?
Drinking beer in Germany and raping schoolgirls and women in Japan.
They do that in the US as well.
wtf?
IE policing the world, rather than defending America from attack.
Like you'd see a military pilot engage an airliner pre-9/11....
"Hindsight is 20/20"
Payne Stewart would like a word with you about that. Err... well, maybe not.
Indeed.
ask Pakistan to give us our money back? :)
but it would have been okay if they bought the planes from lockheed.
weird how people dont seem to have a problem that aid is not being used for socio-economic development and used to buy F16s but its wrong if they buy it from china.
This alert reminds me of a time many years ago when China purchased Russian jets and had "civilian clothed' militay personal deliver them to North Korea to be used against American "propeller' powered airplanes. America suffered a SERIOUS set back because these jet powered aircraft KICK THE SHIT OUT OF US in the air ! I truly believe that at a time in the not too distant future the USA and CHINA will be "at war" with each other.
So the real question remains when WW3 goes full retard does that include an attempted invasion of the USA? or will it all be fought in the MENA theater? If there is attempted attacks on the US will it be shitloads of missiles? or an EMP attack rendering the country useless, then invade??
EDIT: I don't think it will go nuclear as I beleive MAD does work and nobody wants to be MADDED...
1984 called, bitchez! (Orwell is a genius).
And Dr. Strangeglove is on line 2, waiting, bitchez! (Kubrick had his strokes of genius, also).
the tea party needs to vote to raise the US Treasury debt limit to avert WWIII
.
im lovin' it, imean we wanted to create an asia with co-ed high schools... and this is how we are treated... maybe china should come to the US to rid our major metropolisis of crack,meth,and cocaine loosers fuck it...
.
at least we defeated OBL
This is the time of the army of two-hundred thousand thousand(200000000) preparing. China and Russia. Working together, devouring resources and land(buying up and preparing military). China new stealth, new aircraft carrier and deal wiht countries and the whole dollar deal with them. How about Russia and START deal and oil deals and so on. It will all come to a head. Preparations almost complete.
oil deals LOL.
How they gonna get the oil from Africa to China?
Kill the dollar once they've used all of theirs to purchase Africa?
are you serious? or just picking? because from what i see on ZH in general(ther are always exceptions) people should be able to figure that out fairly easily. so was it rhetorical possibly? forgive me im not rying be rude i just cant imagine someone being genuine in that question without some kind of sarcasm or such. just in case its not. to be the guy who answers a question with a question(s). how does any other country do it as of right now? how many ways are there say for example is usa getting its oil/gas? sure some drilled in usa, sure some refineries are here but the bulk gets here how? hope that helped. if not you should be more clear. sometimes on the net because im not jacked in 24/7 i miss lingo or /sarc or rhetorical because the net is so cold and im more of a face to face kinda guy. now look that stuff up on how any country gets its oil and such(do some thinking for yourself) and have a nice day.
ps china/russia not just china
A joint venture where the Chinese-machined jet parts are assembled in Pakistan. Why doesn't Obama tell them they should locate the plant in a pro-Obama, union stronghold state? Boeing can advise them.
With an arms race with the GCC and MENA political chaos to east of Iran and now the credit-seeking third world being served lots of munitions by dollar-flush China, we have a working parallel to the Balkans, 1914.
Chinese-machined jet parts are assembled in Pakistan
That has epic fail all over it.
That is gun-camera pron I'd actually watch.
"Besides, is the JF-17 even a good plane?"
Yes, it is extremely capable. Based on a nice, Western design. Got all that pretty cheap.
In what might be a kinda big advantage, the microprocessors in the Chinese made chips in the JF-17 won't begin acting clugey in battle.
Meanwhile the USA's F22 Raptor fleet is currently grounded while top tech teams are all over them trying to figure out the reason for the odd things that have recently begun happening in midflight.
Aren't many of those microprocessors on the F22 manufactured in China? hmmmmmm
StuxNet, redux?
america payed a foreign nation of dubious allegiance to have access to our most advanced technologies, lol.
This is Pakistan playing the role of a jilted lover. In this case the lover is a biatch in disguise, just ignore them they are playing the US against China. Those scumbag generals and ISI agents need their money hookahs just regualar business they will prost*** themselves to another client anyway. IMHO Pakistan is a failed nation that can barely stay civilized. I wish the US carries out some kind of an emascualation before a fanatic from that nation (no shortage of those uneducated stinkin dimwits) tries something crazy.
They can keep all the j-17 or j-million or whatever, they are just like anyother chinese products made cheaply and will fall out of the sky when just one F-16 engages it.
The strength of a nation comes from its people and their values. Agreed, US has its flaws but it is any day better than that stinkhole (Pak) and the other industrial cess pool (China).
Pakistan-Afghanistan is a graveyard of supper powers.
You can bet if a fanatic appears he will be a CIA asset!
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez
You can't buy love, it seems. Especially if you keep killing their kids with drones. Do the same with India, and see what happens.
As for the JF-17s, they don't even look very modern. India's Tejas with composite materials, advanced avionics, and GE's F414 engines will have them for breakfast.
Future of Air Force is missile and Pakistan had developed ground hugging stealth nuclear load carrying tomahawk missile.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babur_%28cruise_missile%29
Thanks to Monica Lewinsky
I really hope that the correlation i'm seeing emerge:
India : South Vietnam as Pakistan : North Vietnam
is in my imagine and not really happening as US and China back respective surrogates military build-ups.
Not good for India as the Chinese won in Vietnam.
As a matter of fact, the Vietnamese defeated the Chinese in the 1979 war. The Vietnamese are the only people to have defeated the Japanese, the French, the Americans, AND the Chinese.
I wrote my Sen and told him Pak was not a friend, the next day kerry and the mil-industrialist Gates were on the news whining how much we need Pak they like US and only a PFC knew about Osama
And that PFC has been busted to PVT and is currently serving life in the brig.
grain of salt, this is from Wikipedia:
Pakistan and China signed the contract to jointly develop the FC-1 / Super 7 in 1999. Pace of design was very slow, due to the inability to acquire an avionics and radar package from Europe, until the design of the airframe was "de-coupled" from the avionics design in 2001.
That's curious. Why is world leader and up and coming badass China having to shop for electronics? Granted, that is 10 years old news, I suppose they've been given better designs by friendly politicians they donated to in the meantime.
Also mentioned in the article that Egypt has approached Pohkistan with a bid to "co produce" the fighter for their use as well. I'm taking this to mean that the jets are going to be built in Pakistan at some point under contract. I sure hope they do a better job on quality than they did on those lockblade knives marked "pakistan" that I used to buy at the county fair.
Other than that it looks like a cheap ass attempt at an F-16, without the finer bells and whistles. Hacked avionics code built by out of work WoW gold farmers and direct copies of US equipment (down to the hardpoints and modular cockpit gear).
Hornets and Eagles will eat these and shit pull tabs, so we can all make those cool curtains out of them again.
Agreed. The JF-17 is nothing more than a cheap knock-off of an old F-16A/B. Pakistan is the only country dumb enough to buy the fighter in any quantities. It has limited payload abilities as well. In a BVR situation, both Indian and US fighters would blot them from the skies before they had a chance to launch a missle. It is also not combat proven in any sense. Where the F-16 and India's Su-30 have seen combat. In a shooting war, I'm siding with India. I dont care how many of these shitty JF-17s they have.
At 15 million a pop they're cheap. What's important are the missiles, not the aircraft and a China/Pak alliance may have a few aces up their sleeve when it comes to missile technology that they've stolen from the US, purchased from Israel, Russia, Germany and Sweden.
If it were that easy they they should have put their money into SAM systems or drones. China is selling them on the cheap because they WANT the PAF to use them. If they cant have a proxy war on the Korean peninsula, then they'll stick with India and Pakistan. Pakistan gets what they think are awesome planes, and China gets its test subjects.
Cash looks good here all. Sick market.
Once again, a striking similarity with the fall of Rome, when 'barbarians' became so plentiful, even though being technologically way less advanced, the Romans could no longer keep them at bay. At last count we are fighting in: Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq... soon to be followed by Syria and/or Iran and maybe our "ally (haha)", Pakistan.
Ok, follow my logic here... Pakistan hid Bin Laden... therefore they aid terrorist, therefore they are terrorist. Now China aids these terrorist with JF-17 fighter jets... anyone else smell the world war brewing?
the Chinese can always explain that these are not terrorist weapons, but the Chinese are masterful at promoting internal strife inside a country which has resources they desire, think Sudan, and Darfur.
Hmmm, guess you put China on the map? We idiots did! You can thank Nixon for starting the 'hug' approach with them. Soon the child will kill the parent. What they are doing in Pakistan and elsewhere is the old approach Divide and Conquer.
the whole divide and conquor was started by the british when they divided india an pakistan when they left.
Like I said, the terrorists are in WDC! Show me the proof Bin Laden was hidden by Pakis. He died in 2001 of kidney failure. Get real!
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez
This is some thing interesting circulating over the web,
The sensitivity of information rattles the entire echelons of the ISI and even its own officers are sent under house arrest while the relevant cell steps forward. At that time even some of the top intelligence officers of the secretive ISI outside the relevant cell did not know that Osama bin Laden had died and his body was kept frozen at Tarbela. Young Raymond Davis had unearthed the biggest secret of the century, somehow. But now the Pandora’s Box had been opened. Pak top brass knew it had only a few days or weeks at best to capitalize Raymond Davis’ arrest before US get the intel.
In the next six weeks Pakistan plugs all leaks related to Osama’s death and makes sure that maximum gains are made for Raymond’s release. However,when Raymond Davis is released on March 16, his debriefing results in a tsunami of US policy, personal agendas and fueling of political rivalries. Everyone in the US chain of command now wanted to use the information to further personal goals from General
read the full report,,
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/05/12/classified-why-we-will-never-see...
There we go with the Bin Laden was alive until we just killed him meme.
Say the lie over and over.
they don't need a sophisticated airplane to shoot down our predator drone, although perhaps they might want to move their warheads to aircraft since the missile sites are known to US intel which is rumored to want to capture those birds. China should want to take a responsible role in SE asia defense, try to keep any brushfires from springing up, and keeping nuke powers like NKorea and Pakistan and India, in line. and of course the more China spends on military hardware the sooner they can go bankrupt too.
On 26 June 2010 the first batch of 3 F-16C/D Block 52+ fighters were delivered to PAF Base Shahbaz, Jacobabad.[
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_Air_Force
these mother fuckers need to get straightened... China this with U.S. Dollars.. or are they just using the U.S. dollars for U.S. F-16's?
Not that either of these planes will help them against anything we have. A super cobra can knock both of them down becuase of the ordnance carried.. a ranger copter can be used as a platform that could remove both of these threats, to be really fucking clear..
here is the threat in its own words!
http://www.paffalcons.com/specials/paf-viper-pilot.php
36 Pakistani Air Force pilots have reached 1,000 flying hours or more in the F-16 Fighting Falcon so far.
Wg.Cmd. Zulfiqar "Sidewinder" Ayub(Updated: 29 May 2010)
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(Updated: 17 Feb 2009)
(Updated: 17 Feb 2009)
(Updated: 17 Feb 2009)
(Updated: 17 Feb 2009)
http://www.f-16.net/index.php?module=pagesetter&tid=62&filter1=country:eq:195
Cool. That should help identify bodies if they are stupid enough to take to the air against the US.
Better take some DNA samples for the burnt crunchy one.
I am sure the Pakis and Chinese are shaking in their boots! What do you expect them to do when we have attacked within their borders over 1000 times with drone attacks killing thousands of innocent civilians in your phony, baloney war on terror! The terrorists are in WDC not in the mountains of Pakistan! Do some research and learn the truth!
It isnt Pakistan I am worried about. Egypt has over 200 F-16s we gave them now pointed at Israel. So much for democracy.
Yeah like we would give Egypt anything without your approval first.
Slave: "Master, can we give Egypt some F-16s?"
Master: "Sure, just give us the kill switch."
Slave: "Yes Master."
Pilot to command: target in site. (US destroyer in Arabian Sea).
Command to pilot: launch when ready.
Pilot: Affirmative command, missiles away.....(in background "crack" "donk", "wha?")
Pilot: Command we have a problem, trigger assembly just fell apart, no launch.
Pilot: whats this sticker inside this handle part? "made in china".
... and China underwrites salaries of U.S. Navy personnel.
Hmmm...
with what Treasury Purchases? please Ben-O-cide has printed away have the value of those Bonds already!
with what Treasury Purchases? please Ben-O-cide has printed away have the value of those Bonds already!
Simple solution, pull out of Afganistan now, like the Brits, pull out of Iraq next month, leave Libya by July 4th -- and celebrate our independence day!
Sorry Pakistan, no more checks.
Sorry warlords, no much trucks of cash.
Sorry military industrial complex, no more blank checks.
Send all the miliary equipment we have in the middle east to Isreal, save on shipping costs, they are going to need it.
Sounds good to me!
You do not understand that our shadow govt. (the real string pullers) wants and needs enemies. If need be we will keep the bad guys afloat with our funny money. Do you really think our top guys do not know that a bunch of the money send to Pakistan finds its way to rebels/terrorists..? The core of the onion is a lot more intense than most care to believe.
He understands perfectly well because he is part of the shadow government.
New troll (agent of a foreign government) tactic appears to be: say a bunch of stuff that your target (brainwashees) are sure to agree with, then slip in the zinger and hope it all blends in their (our) stupid minds.
Ah, Pulling a BECK is he?
$500,000.000,000.00 revenues generated per year out of opium in Afghanistan. Amazing how production shot up when U. S. took over. Just coincidence I am sure. Watch Geraldo Rivera Fox News video with marine commander rationalizing U. S. troops helping grow the poppies. What poppie cock!
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez
+
Let's look at the positives here!
1) We'll soon have combat experience against the JF-17!
2) Regime change is coming to Pakistan!
3) Afghanistan will soon be a relative model of stability in its region!
BTFD!!!! Hooray!
US tax dollars being spent by Pakistan to buy fighter jets from China. Hollywood couldn't write a better script...
Setup for a China/US cold war in India/Pakistan.
Holy Shit. It's on like Donkey Kong.
That'll be the location of the next proxy war then.
Your "friend" owes you money. Because he's broke, he pays you a favor instead to hold you over.
Hey, USA: "Can't buy me love..."
Eat shit and die, KKK imperialist, zionists mafiosi, bankster boot-lickers!
Rothschild:Hey, I got an idea: let's enslave humanity with funny money, MSM brainwashing and endless OBL "news"!
Rockefeller: They got any oil?
Bill Gates: I can vaccinate their kids with weird evil shit and call it philanthropism!
Joe Lieberman: Ovey, ovey our joowish commands!
Isntreal uber alles, biatches!
Losers!
OK, so the US handed over $Billions in "aid" to Pakistan who then turns around and buys 50 fighter jets from China. We must be the dumbest country on the face of this earth.
The Pak airforce is full of incompetent village idiots. It does not matter what they have, India/US/Russsia can shoot them like ducks while they look for that Chinese operational manual. For a peice of history look up
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantique_Incident
"The Pak airforce is full of incompetent village idiots"
You batter eat your own shit.
Maj. Windy Hendrick, a flight commander and 13-year F-16 pilot, has instructed students from all over the world. She said she and her fellow instructors learned a great deal about their Pakistani counterparts.
"They are all experienced pilots with 500 to 1,800 fighter hours in the F-16, and the majority of that time is combat hours in the fight against extremists," she said. "They are very humble and don't talk about their experience, but the more we learn about them and all they've done it makes us proud to be their instructors."
"They are very dedicated, hard working and they have great attitudes. Their presence in the squadron has been a real pleasure."
http://www.f-16.net/news_article4087.html
Abe...gadhe chup kar anecdotal reports on a web site mean nothing. Talk about facts. Kargil yaad hai?....tere munde nikamme nikle. The result of Kargil was the Indian Army Chief Malik had his ding dong deep inside a kneeling Musharraff. After the Indian Army and Indian Air force were done with your armymen defending Tiger Hill you refused to accept whatever peices were left of them. What dedication do you speak about when the most wanted man in the history of the world was hiding right in front of the military academy and not one of that countrys best military officers knew. Some competence you allude to.
this is exactly the mentality of most indians who harbor an irrational hate for pakistanis.
Such population will continue to be manipulated by the political class and those that make the weapons that are bought with debt from the imf.
india and pak should just have a refendum in kashmir and be done with it.
am natively indian and very disappointed in the successful manipulation of indian population in this regard.
Indian in their 2500 years of history could never rule them-self. They are always looking for some superpower to come and rule over them. This is the first time they got a chance and have no idea what to do. Sitting in one super power's lap and then in an other's.
(I'm American)
Ive lived in both India and US and fundamentally the population is very similar.
They are both a slave to media and easily manipulated by the ruling elite.
You seem to think the american population is ruling themselves. Its a similar illusion of rule in india. When you look at it objectively the exact same strategies are followed by the ruling class in both countries, just with different topics.