Steve Forbes: "The US Will Likely Have A Gold Standard Within The Next Five Years"

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Wed, 05/11/2011 - 09:23 | 1262520 cowdiddly
cowdiddly's picture

I would request that Mr. Forbes please inform the Crimex.

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 09:40 | 1262598 tekhneek
tekhneek's picture

Especially tough when Fort Knox has a big-ass sticky note: IOU @ GLD.

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 09:47 | 1262617 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

I still want to print up t-shirts for your visit to Kentucky. Anyone interested in the following:

FORT KNOX: Nothing to see here.

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 09:46 | 1262626 Josh Randall
Josh Randall's picture

TUNGSTEN = it's whats for Dinner

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 10:13 | 1262775 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

Do you have a chart fer Benny throwing a tantrum Ferg?

 

 

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 12:01 | 1263314 Texas Gunslinger
Texas Gunslinger's picture

Is Steve Forbes a fucking idiot?   

Tethering our currency (otherwise known as our debt) to a gold standard would keep the coupon on that debt alive forever. 

It would be a sham/e to see ~$14T in debt get stamped with the triple AAA of gold this late in the game, so that it pays the plutocrats forever. If the Fed is our largest creditor, it would keep the Fed and the entire plutocratic circle jerk alive forever. 

Now THAT would be the ultimate scam! Wouldn't it?

Kick the US off the gold standard.  Fleece the Treasury for multi-trillions over several decades. Money from the Treasury (American laborer) finds its way into the pockets of the plutocrats and their friends.  When all meat has been chewed from the bone, return the Treasury to the gold standard so our hollowed out country does not collapse under the castles of our plutocrats.  And the American laborer gets stuck with the gold-stamped debt. 

With advise like that, Steve Forbes is far more dangerous than any caveman in Afghanistan.

 

 

 

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 13:22 | 1263913 tmosley
tmosley's picture

They would revalue gold first such that the debt would be negated.  They have to, because otherwise, there isn't enough gold to meet the demands of the money supply.

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 14:25 | 1264200 akak
akak's picture

All talk of returning to a gold standard is almost pointless without abolishing the fundamental Ponzi scheme and (always unsustainable) crime of fractional reserve banking, which caused a number of boom-bust cycles even while the USA was on the silver and then gold standard in the 19th and early 20th centuries.

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 18:01 | 1265383 Keri at Bankste...
Keri at Bankster Report's picture

Gunslinger, your analysis is not correct (other than Steve Forbes potentionally being an idiot, which he very well might be, but for different and much more long-standing reasons that this late statment of his).  The following claim you make is actually perfectly wrong:

"Tethering our currency (otherwise known as our debt) to a gold standard would keep the coupon on that debt alive forever."

This is either an intentional strawman, or you're genuinely more than a little confused on what debt/currency is.  You are hypothesizing something that is not possible: a debt-based gold-backed currency.  By defintion, a debt based currency is repaid with debt.  This is why it is called "debt based."  I can go into more detail on this if you'd like (and explain the differences between Treasury USD and FNR's), but every debt-based currency, including modern USD, is such because it is repaid in debt and specifically not repaid in something else.  This is why debt-based currencies have coupon payments in the first place.  There is no such thing as a "debt based gold-backed currency."

A backed currency (be it backed by shells or gold or bald eagle eggs) is repaid in a different form than that of the purchasing exchange.  A paper note backed by gold is repaid in gold, not 5% more paper notes; a paper note backed in debt is repaid with 5% more (or whatever the yield is) paper notes of debt.  The exchange between beginning and end is always different, in either case: it is either a change of form (paper to gold) or a change in face valuation (paper to more paper).

Another historical name for backed currencies that makes this easy to remeber is the moniker "trade currency," because they basically represent a collateralized futures agreement based on a trade of value forms.  Because _____-backed debt is not repaid in more debt, the issuer is limited in the amount of these contracts it can sell.  We all know this: even if a currency was backed by dirt particles, there are only so many dirt particles on the planet with which to back it.  Conversely, debt-backed currencies are theoretically limitless (and theorectically only, because they ALL collapse under thier own weight).

Your mistake is assuming that current debt-based US obligations would be repaid in gold.  This is not correct, and in fact, this is literally illegal: the Treasury CANNOT repay in gold because the terms of the exchange at auction are for specified repayments in USD only.  It would be like repaying a futures contract on corn in wheat: you can sell the wheat and go by the corn, but you cannot cover a corn contract with wheat.  US collateral is a claim, of course, but there is NO legally specified collateral on US debt, which is why it is sold only "backed by the full faith and credit of the US," (whatever the hell that nonsense means).  Furthermore, the Treasury can only acquire more USD (excluding revenues,which even then still must be converted from FNR to USD through the FRS) through the issuance of more debt (fresh debt) because--again--this is the denomiated form for the contract.  There are no apples for oranges--only apples for apples.

If the Treasury/Congress decided to revalue gold from the current legal tag of $42/oz and sell a gold-backed contract based on the future exchange of gold, it would be something different than and distinct from outstanding Treasury obligations.  No holder of US debt is legally entitled to gold, period: the US has not agreed to exchange gold for debt obligations since 1971.  [The FRS, of course, claims all US gold as collateral, but they have painted themselves into a corner by denying gold as "sound money" in the FRA and yet requiring repayment from the Treasury in "sound money," but that is a whole other headache.]

People will say, "The US can't do that---it can't start a new gold-backed form because that would effectively be a default by refusing to extend the gold repayment to the debt-backed contracts! And the US have never defaulted, ever!  It is unheard of!"  But that is a bulsh on two fronts:

1.) the stupid mofo's who bought the freakin' debt-backed crap should have thought of that when they agreed to the terms of the contract, which said they'd be paid back in debt, not gold, and

2.) the US has defaulted twice in the last 100 years: once in 1933 domestically and again in 1971 internationally by specifically breaching the terms of the debt sale contract by refusing to repay in gold when the contract did specifically say that, and refusing to pay despite gold having been the repayment form agreed to by the buyers.

So don't get ahead of yourself by making these inaccurate assumptions.  The last paragraph you wrote doesn't even make sense, man.  And if you're scared of "cavemen" in Afghanistan, I have a bridge I can cut you a fanstatic deal on...you'll love it.  All yours, too.

Thu, 05/12/2011 - 19:56 | 1270112 Miss anthrope
Miss anthrope's picture

wow thank you so much for that!!!  I learn every day here.

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 15:32 | 1264564 awakened
awakened's picture

Thanks for the link, saw it there first. Now that i have found tfmetals along the watchtower (it toook awhile) I go there every day to see what you haave posted and to check prices.

This article confirms what I just recently found at the Road to Roota or rootA

http://www.roadtoroota.com/public/120.cfm

part 2 was most interesting about Marco's (Japan's) gold

http://www.scribd.com/doc/9421535/Collateral-Damage-Part-2-The-Subprime-...

not sure what to believe anymore since so much of what we get is just a big lie.

Also, TPTB want to make sure that the turd is not proven right on metals, specifically siver, at least not right away.

 

 

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 13:18 | 1263905 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

Synthetic Tops in Commodities Provided by the CFTC to the detriment of Americans and Betterment of “People’s Republic of China”!

 

Every time the CFTC releases its Margin Hike Press Release after hours here in the United States.. China gets to front run the Fucking Dip!

 

It is not bad enough that the idiots who back test blindly will cause artificial drag on the market with the Synthetic Peaks that have been provided to them, the algo’s can NOT even grasp the concept and for the most part the people who are programming are going to favor the numerically correct solution based on the larger law of averages..

 

But an American Commission, that is supposed to protect Americans.. is empowering China to once again have the upper hand?

 

What the FUCK?

 

Our Government has given China enough freebies for the week! And last week and pretty much going forward for-fucking-ever!

 

I hate stupid people! I hate the stupid Government that allows 50,000 jobs to go to China a MONTH! Now China gets to front run the downward pressure in Metals which benefits CHINA! Which is a foreign Power! More than the Americans it is supposed to help in the long run!!

 

TREASON! IS FUCKING TREASON!!

 

Senate Republicans blocked a Democratic Bill to End tax Breaks for Moving U.S. Jobs Offshore! 50,000 Manufacturing Jobs a Month since 2001 have LEFT! The United States for China! http://goo.gl/6qhnK

 

How much more are we going to have to give China? When is enough stupidity enough? This Country is FUCKED! And no one gives a shit! Everyone wants to pray for the rapture or live the lie of the Treasury! And where in the FUCK are the people charged with securing the national Security of the Country? Those mother fuckers are the First ones that should be hung for treason.. going back 30 – 40 years!

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 09:23 | 1262521 Beau Tox
Beau Tox's picture

Dead the Fed

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 10:17 | 1262794 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Unfortunately for us THTB likely have it being replaced by BIS.

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 18:36 | 1265578 Keri at Bankste...
Keri at Bankster Report's picture

I don't know what "THTB" means, so I just looked up on google and I'm even more confused.

Thanks for mentioning the BIS, though: the more people there are who being to learn and know about the central bank of central banks, the better.  And the BIS is already in charge.  It was created for the specific purpose of in being in charge; real CB's know that they either stand together or fall together.  The endgame of the BIS is the complete elimination of popular or market imput on debt-based currency valuation, or in other words, globalized slavery through debt.

I have written extensively about the BIS, and one quote that always sticks in my mind is this one:

 "At the BIS, there are no nations.  Only banks."  Or as the homepage (www.big.org) puts it:

The Bank for International Settlements (BIS) is an international organisation which fosters international monetary and financial cooperation and serves as a bank for central banks.

The BIS does not offer banking services to private individuals, but only to central banks and to international organisations.

Our overlords.  But don't worry---I heard on CNBC that it doesn't really exist.  Its just a conspiracy theory: so don't research it, and don't go to their website, either.  No, it is a much better use of one's time to watch "Kudlow" and "Mad Money"--they'll tell you the TRUTH!  Yes, I'm quite sure.

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 09:26 | 1262522 rambler6421
rambler6421's picture

Max Keiser said that if that happens, gold will at least go to 7000.  Peter sChiff says 5000-6000.  All I know is that if this happens, gold will skyrocket.

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 09:26 | 1262529 achmachat
achmachat's picture

well... according to today's charts, the public out there does not read the same news as we do.

I guess this means that we have a head start?

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 09:29 | 1262537 augie
augie's picture

Us, and anyone who reads drudgereport.

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 11:18 | 1263200 financeguru500
financeguru500's picture

Sorry but it won't be that easy. There won't be a whole group of people like us who are at an advantage and suddenly become rich while the majority of people lose out and the wealthy become poor holding dollars.

There are many millionaires/billionaires who will use their resources to make sure they maintain their wealth when the economy crumbles and a new currency is formed. You can bet on that. From my understanding, the most likely situation will be the IMF/world bank taking over and making a new currency not manipulated by a single government with exchange ratios of old currency to new currency which will allow for those with wealth to maintain it while also keeping everyone else at their current status quo. If gold were to rise, it would be because it is allowed to rise because TPTB are holding significant amounts of gold. This would work in their favor to make themselves even richer.

Just a thought.

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 11:38 | 1263296 augie
augie's picture

I meant that more as a backhanded remark at the embodiment of the media narrative, but yes. I agree 100%

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 12:03 | 1263412 FastBoat
FastBoat's picture

I thought after Wolfowitz figured out Iraqi oil wouldn't pay for the war, he went to the IMF and promptly figured out they were damn near bankrupt.

Anyone who is exchanging green paper products for real assets will be better off than those who do not.

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 12:01 | 1263415 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

+1

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 13:12 | 1263867 Mariposa de Oro
Mariposa de Oro's picture

fg500,

I agree.  TPTB will never allow a gold standard unless it benefits them.  I'm pretty sure the sheeple will be given another fiat currency, global in nature and controlled by globalists, IMF, BIS, etc.  The sad part is that the sheeple will believe it's in their best interest and will likely demonize the gold and silver bugs.  The good news is that we bugs are so few that if we hold our precious in physical, we may not be worth the effort to TPTB.  Let the sheeple be the low hanging fruit.....

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 09:27 | 1262540 Gavrikon
Gavrikon's picture

No, it means that the banksters are running a morning raid.

 

Oops, sorry, I meant the FAGsters.

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 09:52 | 1262646 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Quit insulting gay people by comparing them to Banksters.

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 09:53 | 1262667 tmosley
tmosley's picture

I think he is using the term's South Park meaning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7hQN4Amaeg

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 16:51 | 1265024 Anonymouse
Anonymouse's picture

Oh.  I thought you were referring to the Film Actors Guild.  I couldn't figure out how they were involved

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 10:09 | 1262762 Hard1
Hard1's picture

You really expect the last remnant of free press to become pollitically correct now?

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 10:21 | 1262816 falak pema
falak pema's picture

how about....Bankfucks...? more amenable? To the extent that a fuck is not necessarily making love...like in the song..."Fuck you, fuck you very, very much..."

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 10:35 | 1262892 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

i don't know..."fuck" is such a beautiful word.  conveys so many different meanings, emotions, etc.

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 10:49 | 1262955 falak pema
falak pema's picture

yes undoubtedly, but its Lady M who was obfuscated...by fag...so I suggested a more 'funkyable' word...to peddle with Banksta...could have used...others...from Sodom and Gomorrah...but thats funky and biblical.

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 09:53 | 1262662 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

Head startz bitchez!

 

 

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 09:44 | 1262606 holdbuysell
holdbuysell's picture

And silver?

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 09:44 | 1262618 silvertrain
silvertrain's picture

Will be confiscated as an extinct, national security resource..Black market will put it god knows where in terms of price..

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 11:27 | 1263257 freshcut
freshcut's picture

we'll have to pull out those silver cert notes and knock the dust off

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 11:58 | 1263388 viahj
viahj's picture

i have a $5 silver cert note and if the treasury were to honor it today and give me $5 worth of silver, they would only have to give me a pre '65 quarter...how fucked up is that?

Thu, 05/12/2011 - 13:31 | 1268485 mojine
mojine's picture

IF, and that's a big if, They had not repudiated those notes, $5 siver cert would have been redeemed with 5 silver dollars, or towards the end of allowed redemption, 3.87 ounces of shot or nuggets. BTW APMEX has some of these official vials of shot right now.

 

http://www.apmex.com/Product/24291/1_in_Silver_Shot_Nuggets_7734_Silver_...

Thu, 05/12/2011 - 13:43 | 1268549 mojine
mojine's picture

When redemption of silver certificates began in earnest, treasury stopped paying out the old silver dollars and resorted to silver "shot", which has no numismatic premium. Originally, silver certificates could be redeemed either for silver dollars or silver bullion. For a long time, the price of silver was low enough that nobody did much of either. A silver dollar contains 0.77 ounces of silver, so the market price has to rise to $1.29 per ounce before the specie becomes worth more than the face value of the bill or coin. In 1963, the price did reach that value, and redemption began in earnest.

From a redeemer's standpoint, you were better off getting silver dollars than silver shot. The silver dollars had a face value, putting a floor under your losses--if silver tanked, they were still worth a dollar. Silver shot, of course, might go arbitrarily low. In March 1964, the Treasury wised up to this and discontinued redemption of silver certificates in coin. If they were going to lose money, they were at least going to avoid the expense of minting coins, and force redeemers to take their chances with silver shot.

Later in the 1960's, the price of silver skyrocketed and even shot looked attractive. There was another run on the Treasury, and silver certificates suffered the fate of all specie-backed currency: when redemption becomes too expensive, the government suspends redemption.

With silver currently going for just over $34/oz, the redemption value of $5 silver certificate would be ~ $131.50 if the Feds hadn't welshed.

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 10:00 | 1262711 tiger7905
tiger7905's picture

Sinclair saying $5000 gold doesn't need QE3, QE1 and 2 were enough. Interview Highlights: http://goldandsilverlinings.com/?p=956

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 10:03 | 1262728 Just Observing
Just Observing's picture

Gold doesn't change....paper simply gets worth less. When gasoline is 25 bucks/gallon, the only bright spot is with enough gold, you'll be a bit better off than those that don't have gold....but only a bit.

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 10:26 | 1262842 writingsonthewall
writingsonthewall's picture

I don't think it could be done - imagine the chaos as Americans go from a real purchasing power of $50,000 a year to about $10,000 under a new Gold standard.

 

For starters, all the fatties will starve.

 

The Gold standard is not something we can realistically return to - I suspect a US default would cause less chaos than a return to the gold standard - yes, it's that bad.

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 10:48 | 1262985 trav7777
trav7777's picture

life won't be horrible...this is the way things are throughout south america and somehow they don't die en masse.

It will mean an end to "nuclear families" and starter BMWs and a lot of shit.  Au pairs I knew took high end phones from here and sold them back home in brazil; it wasn't worth it to hang onto something so prized by people with more money.

Expect everything not local to cost a lot more.  I mean, anyone who's been to Brazil or Colombia or Chile knows how much cars "cost" there.  Things that are taken for granted by shiftless ghetto apes, like plasma TVs and big SUVs are beyond the reach of most people.  Extended families make due with less cars than the average single household in the US.  This is the future, a NORMALIZATION of trade flows and a finding of the real value of the dollar after decades of financialization

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 14:31 | 1264227 akak
akak's picture

You are much more pleasant and agreeable and intelligent-sounding when you go back on your meds, as you appear to be today.

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 11:00 | 1263079 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Not too bright are you?

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 11:04 | 1263103 technovelist
technovelist's picture

If the US defaults, we'll still have a gold standard afterwards, so it's just a question of how we get there, not whether we do.

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 10:42 | 1262932 Cone of Uncertainty
Cone of Uncertainty's picture

7000 what?

It surely won't be dollars.

Gold won't be priced in USD when the dollar collapses into oblivion.

Holders will be able to convert into other currencies though, assuming that there are any surviving fiat currencies still in circuation once the global monetary system collapses like a death star reaching the singularity.

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 10:56 | 1263040 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

When the price of gold was floated and Comex gold contract launched on December 31, 1974 the US Debt stood at $492.67 billion and the price of gold was $195.50/oz.  As of May 5, 2011 US Debt stood at $14,321.67 billion.  So if the US borrowing limit were still defined by the price of gold, the price of gold would have rise to $5,683.14 today.  However, if you calculate from the 1973 Congressionally mandated price of gold (PL 93-110 - $42.22/oz) then the May 5th price should be $1227.36

However, in 1974 the Chinese economy was still a backwater recently visited by Nixon, and Timmay wasn't looking for a 2T increase in the national credit card limit.

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 10:59 | 1263089 Cone of Uncertainty
Cone of Uncertainty's picture

7000 what?

It surely won't be dollars.

Gold won't be priced in USD when the dollar collapses into oblivion.

Holders will be able to convert into other currencies though, assuming that there are any surviving fiat currencies still in circuation once the global monetary system collapses like a death star reaching the singularity.

Wed, 05/11/2011 - 12:53 | 1263755 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Gold should be valued in GOLD, grams of gold, not in "dollars" or any other brand of paper. Give me invoices worked out in grams of gold. Give me a bank account in units of gold. If there is going to be a "dollar" that means there is going to be government control over the exchange rate between the dollar and its redemption value in gold. Screw that.

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