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Steve Forbes: "The US Will Likely Have A Gold Standard Within The Next Five Years"
And another advocate for the only logical outcome out of the disastrous monetary and fiscal catastrophe the US finds itself in emerges in the face of billionaire, and open administration critic, Steve Forbes. From Human Events: "A return to the gold standard by the United States within the next five years now seems likely, because that move would help the nation solve a variety of economic, fiscal, and monetary ills. “What seems astonishing today could become conventional wisdom in a short period of time,” Forbes said. Such a move would help to stabilize the value of the dollar, restore confidence among foreign investors in U.S. government bonds, and discourage reckless federal spending, the media mogul and former presidential candidate said. The United States used gold as the basis for valuing the U.S. dollar successfully for roughly 180 years before President Richard Nixon embarked upon an experiment to end the practice in the 1970s that has contributed to a number of woes that the country is suffering from now, Forbes added." Of course, for this to happen the US would first need to allow a full public audit of its gold 8,000+ ton reserves held at Fort Knox and elsewhere. And that may be problematic.
More from the article:
If the gold standard had been in place in recent years, the value of the U.S. dollar would not have weakened as it has and excessive federal spending would have been curbed, Forbes told HUMAN EVENTS. The constantly changing value of the U.S. dollar leads to marketplace uncertainty and consequently spurs speculation in commodity investing as a hedge against inflation.
The only probable 2012 U.S. presidential candidate who has championed a return to the gold standard so far is Rep. Ron Paul (R.-Tex.). But the idea “makes too much sense” not to gain popularity as the U.S. economy struggles to create jobs, recover from a housing bubble induced by the Federal Reserve’s easy-money policies, stop rising gasoline prices, and restore fiscal responsibility to U.S. government’s budget, Forbes insisted.
With a stable currency, it is “much harder” for governments to borrow excessively, Forbes said. Without lax Federal Reserve System monetary policies that led to the printing of too much money, the housing bubble would not have been nearly as severe, he added.
“When it comes to exchange rates and monetary policy, people often don’t grasp” what is at stake for the economy, Forbes said. By restoring the gold standard, the United States would shift away from “less responsible policies” and toward a stronger dollar and a stronger America, he said. “If the dollar was as good as gold, other countries would want to buy it.”
An encouraging sign for Forbes is that key lawmakers besides Rep. Paul are recognizing that the Fed is straying well beyond its intended role of promoting stable prices and full employment with its monetary policies.
And speaking of Ron Paul, today the Subcommittee chairman will hold a 10 am EDT hearing on "Monetary Policy and the Debt Ceiling", which we hope to broadcast live, as it should further reinforce the logic of all those who are calling for the overthrow of the central bank cartel.
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On your second part, we've chosen to stair step or slinky upwards (although gravity doesn't work that way, I think the motion is largely similar)(or, alternatively, this has been chosen for us). Each cycle yields residual technology/knowledge... so long as we can retain that knowledge and pass it down, then we can build upon it. This is a significant factor in why the internet is so important...
The flip side is to pay as we go... obviously this requires good ideas to be put on hold until the resources are gathered to put them into effect, but we would likely have less boom and bust cycles...
Some of our technologies also require us to keep advancing at the current pace or greater to stay ahead... for example, antibiotics... if bacteria becomes immune to certain medications, then we have to keep advancing in order to combat it...
and I'm not sure we're past childhood...
COMPLETE bullshit.
Did the airplane get built on CREDIT?
Did Edison invent the lightbulb on CREDIT?
I can't think of ANY of the truly great inventions that were built as a result of credit. You are buying into the bankster's SCAMS about how indispensible they are to you. You don't need their jew confetti to live your life and be productive.
Western europeans need to return to western european values and return to our roots. Society is what it is because of western europeans inventing everything. Not because of usury. The usury system is parasitical.
Look at inventors like Tesla... he died with a shit ton of debt... generally speaking, someone has to foot the bill while Mr. Wizard is tinkering... whether it happens as a part of academia or otherwise is irrelevant.
Further, how can we separate the debt associated with inventing a particular item and personal debt or debt in the system that allows the inventor the wherewithal to even have the time to invent?
In addition, assuming arguendo that the process of invention would still occur, what is the mechanism that allows these inventions to make it to market? It's one thing to be able to develop a prototype in your garage... it's another thing to be able to meaningfully impact humanity via widespread distribution.
The simple fact is that humans haven't developed a way to advance as quickly without drawing from the future... I'm not saying we're incapable, hell, eventually we may be forced to change, but for the time being, that's the way it is...
Private investment from savings - in the expectation of future profit sharing - is more than adequate ... and was the sole source of funding for the renaissance and the industrial revolution.
I would ask the opposite: What is the justification for using public funds - ie. borrowing from the future, unless reserves are built up for such investments by stealing (taxing) from the present savings of private citizens - to fund inventors, then granting the inventor a patent right to personally profit? Isn't this just another form of socialising the costs/losses and privatising the profits?
Why is it that the credit must come from the public coffers? Why is it that all private wealth must be utilized as a common business venture rather than as a creditor to the inventor?
The other issue we have to deal with now is, if all future innovation is to come from present savings, then how do we morally navigate the wealth gap? Is the system adequately designed to ensure distribution of profits to the truly productive? Can a new system actually have any chance of success if it is implemented without addressing the relative starting positions of the new players?
The surface of a planet is NOT the proper place for an expanding, technological civilization.
Agreed, but where you gonna get your vitamin D pale face?
Extreme swings of the economy may be perfectly normal, and therefore attempts to eliminate them misguided. Swings up are a normal consequence of human nature, and swings down are the inevitable correction occurring. And anyway, what makes you think any monetary system can, or should, "fix" them? It is the foolish conceit of Keynesian alchemists to believe that they can tame the economic cycle with some magical pieces of paper. In reality, it merely delays the inevitable, allowing the bubble to inflate larger and making the correction that much more savage when it eventually occurs. A bunch of little boom/busts or one big, mother-of-them-all. Take your pick.
And if you think the extent of "the present problem" is solely a result of a credit-induced boom, you haven't been paying attention.
The entire boom-bust "business cycle" is utterly ABnormal, and is the direct result of the fraud and crime of fractional reserve banking, further exaggerated and amplified by a fiat monetary system overlaying the whole corrupt scam. The very concept of a boom-bust business cycle was unknown prior to the days of widespread fractional reserve banking, but has been integral to every economy enslaved by FRB and fiat currency since.
You are correct, a gold standard alone cannot remedy the crime of FRB --- the latter MUST be abolished before the former can truly properly function.
well it would sure as hell fix the fact that $100 bucks saved 20 years ago only buys $15 bucks worth of food today
a gold standard is about prudence, saving for the future
by Zing
on Wed, 05/11/2011 - 09:42
#1262612
Too bad the economy still suffered from extreme swings of credit induced booms and busts (the present problem). Too bad people cannot see that gold will not fix this. The real problem is excess credit. Limit the credit and you limit the severity of the boom-busts.
Yes, They will likely have a gold standard............using the gold from all the mining companies they buy at supressed prices from naked shorting the crap out of them!!!!!!!!!!
Yes, They will likely have a gold standard............using the gold from all the mining companies they buy at supressed prices from naked shorting the crap out of them!!!!!!!!!!
Bravo...some sanity. Now, let's address the very basic core issue. Depleting natural resources and the fact that the current exponential growth economic paradigm can not be sustained. In other words, it too, needs drastic change to something that is sustainable.
The surface of a planet is NOT the proper place for an expanding, technological civilization. The Universe has a lot of room in it...
Steve Forbes (and his late old man, too), an interesting cat. His flat-tax and sound-money ideas are very, very rare today among anyone with access to big media. Had he been elected President in 1996, who knows, we may have had a fighting chance, especially if that rat Rubin would be turned out on his ear.
Tyler are you really this blind? Gold is manipulated by the same central banking cartel (therefore they control it), and you want to use that as the monetary base? Meet the boss, same as the old boss? Plus the problem is excess credit creation, that occurred even under a Gold Standard, so the real problem won't be addressed (excess and weckless credit creation).
To the person that junked me. Can you explain the boom busts under the Gold Standard, and explain how a Gold Standard will prevent excess credit now, when it failed to do so in the past?
Junk and ye shall be junked.
Yes, the booms and busts are very easily explained: they were ALL due to the grossly fraudulent practice of fractional reserve banking, which is nothing more than check kiting on a massive and systemic basis. Until that abhorrent and self-destructive financial crime is abolished, no monetary standard, gold or fiat, is going to be or can remain stable.
Acording to FOFOA there's about 160 000 metric tons (IIRC) sitting on the sides waiting to manipulate the global economic environment, perhaps talley sticks would be a better approach. I guess that no matter which approach is applied - it depends upon ethical individuals to run things for the betterment of a nation state. Good luck with that. Anytime there's a concentration of wealth there will be a gang of theives to focus on stealing it.
II don't see any "good" solution to this banker cartel shithole and history will rhyme again.
unless the rocky mountain about 1 mile deep where the gold is located is called fort knox there's no problem :)
So the auditors need to dig a little bit. Maybe they also should take notice that it's not all in one place.
The government took the geological reserves of the US as actual present reserves.
nice show I saw, building bigger or whatever with the geeky architect dude who's afraid of heights was in RSA, where they are going approximately 2.5 MILES down in a mine to dig out pretty much the last of the gold in what was a huge deposit.
That should tell you something about depleting resources and economicality. To go down 12000' requires expensive gold.
If that is the case you will see a market crash like never before...
Not because we should have one based on our current environment but more to do with "children throwing a temper tantrum" otherwise known as the banking cartel...
Except it is they that control gold as well. Sleight of hand anybody? Physical Gold is a good store of wealth, but Gold is NOT the answer for Dollar Backing.
Who are "they"?
If you are referring to world central banks, you are of course wildly incorrect, as they only hold less than 20% of the total world stock of gold --- and less than 10% if the claims of GATA and others, that central banks have surreptitiously loaned gold into the markets over the past two decades, are correct.
So how in theory would a current gold back currency system work? I'm not trolling, I am genuienly interested in the mechnics of it since it seems like there would be several issues.
If they were to announce this wouldn't there have to be a set value at that time? Is your paper then printed at a fractional reserve to the amount of gold on hand (100:1, etc). Won't this have to change over time due to population growth. What's to stop the government from changing the ratio as they figure out they need/want more money.
How does this utimately stop any of the current problems we have? Seems like our money will still be issued with fractional reserve practices. And even though that paper is backed by gold, a single piece of currency would be worth less and less of that gold as time went on.
I guess you could argue that at least its backed by something, and that it may could be redeemed for that something. But what if they dont make it redeemable for the common man.
I rather think it will be a Yuan backed dollar by than :)
It sounds great, but could it really ever happen? How could the gov continue along with the expansion of entitlements?
"Dreams Come Due, Government and Economics as if Freedom Mattered", ISBN: 0-671-61159-3, by John Galt
The book is dated, but many of the things it talks about are still valid today.
Sooner or later, robbing middle-class Peter to pay Paul (well-connected or poor), will have to cease!
"I guess you could argue that at least its backed by something, and that it may could be redeemed for that something. But what if they dont make it redeemable for the common man. "
Then it wouldn't work...
Gold, what gold? And youll never have a gold standard without first abolishing the World Central Bankster Cabal, so this is just pie in the sky nonsense.
what stops them from creating their own fake/manipulated gold standard?
Good point.
I see, just CALL the fractional reserve Ponzi central bank lending scheme a 'gold standard', and problems all solved. Cool!
Why not a multi-metal standard that allows the issuer of the Note to pay out any combination of the said metals as they have avilable?
Getting nervous there silver junkie?
Crucify us on a Cross of Gold???
I like bi-metallism. Hell, Tri or Quad would work. Different coins made of different stuff.
Platinum, Palladium, Plutonium . . .
End of FX market?
"A return to the gold standard by the United States within the next five years now seems likely, because that move would help the nation solve a variety of economic, fiscal, and monetary ills."
So it's likely because it would make sense to do?
HAHAHAHAHAHA
omg, so funny.
'It would make sense to do so, therefore a gold standard will happen within 5 years'....total BS without a bit of reality.
Executive Order 1110, President Kennedy seemed to think it was a good idea. http://goo.gl/kEp5a
of course for the last 20 - 30 years Kennedy has been slammed by the Baptist, End of the World Rapture Crowd.. becuase Kennedy liked Great Pussy.. but you cant make everyone happy all the time!
he liked any pussy, lets be honest
Odd that a hetro dude would like Great Pussy.
dudes and dykes don't have same agenda with a puss in boots
Ain't it odd the baptist were created like all of us.
Penis enters vagina,
yet they do not want to talk about it.
And they never quote from the song of Solomon.
Song of Songs 5:4 New International Version
"My lover thrust his hand through the latch-opening: my heart began to pound for him . I arose to open for my lover".
I blame St. Augustine!
If you've got a bunch of extra cash laying around without a place to put it, BUY SOMETHING. Prices will be going up so we're buying anything and everything we may need for the next several years. With what's left over, we put funds into the precious metals (but don't fall in love with them) and money in Treasuries to have a play in whichever scenario plays itself out. We've got extra fuel, food, vehicles, tools, etc. The riskiest thing to time in the future is when to sell the precious metals. If the U.S. ever goes on a gold standard again you can be assured that PM will be taken from us for cents on the dollar. If there is no gold standard in our future, then there will also come a time when selling PM will be smarter if we can turn the cash into other assets that have been left far behind due to a royally screwed up economy.
Yeh and what happens if there is no QE3?
I think a "rich" blend of cash, PMs and raw land is a decent hedge and more prudent.
When I see banks start to "dump" their cash I will dump mine too....
I prefer 85% cash and 15% gold.
I buy into the blend plan.
And we are not going on a gold standard to "help the nation solve a variety of economic, fiscal, and monetary ills." The federal government has absolutely no tolerance for any level of economic pain (just look how they have contorted government to bailout the latest downturn when they could have let prices sort out winners and losers). A gold standard would be very painful in the near term.
You can buy very-long-shelf-life assets right now that will hold their value far into the future:
ammunition, firearms, quality hand tools, hard liquor, salt, sugar, honey, instant coffee, candles, etc., etc.
during ragnarok it is said that after the great beasts and gods of the world have finished destroying one and other, in a glade the last man and woman on earth will be held safe so as to begin humanity anew..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragnarok
"The surviving Æsir meet together at the field of Iðavöllr. They discuss Jörmungandr, great events of the past, and the runic alphabet. In stanza 61, in the grass, they find the golden game pieces that the gods are described as having once happily enjoyed playing games with long ago (attested earlier in the same poem)."
yes but with Hollywood PC the "whitest" norse god is now black, therefore probably at least one won't be out of bed until after everything has gone down.
A gold standard in 5 years, a balanced budget, trillions of dollars in spending cuts, and I become Mrs. Johnny Depp.
Oddly the last one has the greatest probability of occuring.
Can't think why anyone junked you for this. Unless s/he's in love with Johnny Depp, and jealous of you. ;^)
LOL
watch out JD has a french wife and he is rated as a cold python...so you better be ready for some strangle holds, if that happens...and stay away from french cheese...
Is Forbes not in the Bankster Cabal, or is he just throwing a head fake out there? It makes so much sense to do it, but seems to many forces of evil arrayed against it. But, who knows?
Forbes is a Bankster. Make no mistake about it.
Forbes, a magazine publisher, a bankster? How are things at the JPM Precious Metals Desk these days, Mr. Zingbergstein?
Forbes is a silver spoon dweeb from Far Hills whose ideas have been either wrong or soundly rejected for 25 years. He should just STFU and enjoy his incredible wealth (thanks to grandaddy and daddy).
What are your ideas? Forbes makes more sense than 99.9999% of the infotainment talking heads out there. BTW Pres. George Washington was a billionaire, probably the richest man in the U.S., does that somehow take from the quality of his leadership?
Ummm, source information on that data point, please?
I would like to see the factual references on George Washington being a Billionaire too. Seems strange that he would have to take Martha's silverware to create the countries first half dimes if he were that wealthy.
All right, Poindexters, here it is. GW's wealth was in LAND, acquired on the cheap during his work as a colonial surveyor/land speculator. 1/2 of you wankers are in a game to see who can snark the hardest. For the record, I was off by 50%, he was a mere 9-figure millionaire.
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2010/05/the-net-worth-of-the-us-presidents-from-washington-to-obama/57020/
1st :: George Washington (1789-1797) Estimated net worth: $525 millionHis Virginia plantation, "Mount Vernon," consisted of five separate farms on 8,000 acres of prime farmland, run by over 300 slaves. His wife, Martha Washington, inherited significant property from her father. Washington made significantly more than subsequent presidents: his salary was two percent of the total U.S. budget in 1789.
The Young America
Coinage Act of 1792 -- proportional value of gold and silver 1:15 rule
Section 11. And be it further enacted, That
the proportional value of gold and silver in
all coins which shall by law be current as
money within the United States, shall be
fifteen to one, according to quantity in
weight, of pure gold or pure silver; that is
to say, every fifteen payments, with one
pound weight of pure gold, and so in
proportion as to any greater or less
quantities of the respective metals.
Gold confiscation within 4 years then.
Would you comply?
Speaking of (proven... and then hopefully probable) U.S. geological reserves of unaudited gold:
http://contramanfund.wordpress.com/2011/03/02/print-more-gold-backed-tun...
Gold standard in five years? Is that gonna be true??
Forbes is wrong on one account.
The US$ would have still declined because of the Fed's incessent printing. But it would not have declined to the level that it is at because of the backing of the dollar by gold and the intrinsic value of the American economy.
They can't "just print" under a gold standard. It would cause all of the gold to flow out of the treasury, until they default.
No. There are a number of models for this. One would be to have all currencies pegged to gold, where gold is the objective fiat of measure, but individuals currencies would rise and fall due to economic output, along with paper money floating around the system.
Replace gold with the current US$, and you would still have movement of currency... just it would be backed by something physical as opposed to the ability of the US to back the dollar based on the perceived notion that it is good for it.
The US Constitution's version of gold standard is only one form of several.
How does one peg to gold AND float the currency based on economic output?
It seems to me that under a gold standard, it is just the currency base that fluctuates, as more or less gold flows through a given economy based on its output.
I am aware of multiple forms of gold standards, but none of them allow for free printing of currency. Even the shitty gold exchange standard only allowed for a fairly small amount of printing, and it fell apart the moment it was questioned by France.
Unfortunately this scheme could be a gold suppression scheme and hand more control to world governments. However if used properly it could create wealth and at the same time transfer wealth to the poorest nations.
Some time ago I talked of a master plan to help the world for centuries to come.
165,000 tonnes of gold have been mined in human history, about 5.3 billion troy ounces. With 6.9 billion people in the worlds population that's equal to 0.768 of a troy ounce per person. Jewelery accounts for 70 to 80,000 tonnes and coin and investment accounts for 20,000 tons. 35,000 tonnes has been used or lost, is in private ownership, or even under declared.
This is now spread all over the world. US has the worlds largest Central bank gold reserves at 8133 tons or .86 ounces per head of population. EU population 500 million. 10,500 tonnes = 346990145.185 troy ounces or .69 troy ounces per person. Currently there is 30,500 tonnes total gold world reserves held by central banks.
The US 8133 tonnes represents about 27% of all gold held and if you take into account Gold in the EU 809million people control 62% of the worlds gold if you consider the US and EU as democracies. Zimbabwe has no gold reserves which I'll come to later.
The issue is though that the majority of the available gold in the world is held by a minority. In Zimbabwe one gram of gold gets you 10 loaves of bread. People dig all day in order to eat. In the US 1 gram buys 20 loaves of bread and low income person works 20 minutes to afford one loaf. Huge disparities.
Custodians and allocation of gold.
In the distribution of wealth around the world we must consider how to make this happen. If we consider gold is wealth and there is 30,500 tonnes available with Central banks, and that this creation of wealth was accumulated through profit and taxation of companies who in turn made a profit from the world population. So let us for a minute hypothesize that the world is a democracy and we control the gold (wealth). That's 30,500 tonnes divided by 6.9 billion people. = .142 troy ounces (4.42g) per person. Why are we even calculating this. I am using gold as a simple tool to measure the wealth of each individual on earth. A unit of credit if you like that could determine where wealth and investment is redistributed. .
Now we take total global GDP of about 60 trillion dollars/6.9 billion = 8700 dollars per head.
These are both todays figures. $8700 we will make equal to 4.42 grams. $1968 dollars per gram.
A person lets say needs half a loaf of bread to eat per day. thats 183 loaves per annum. Clearly 0.1gram of gold is to much to pay for a loaf. Therefore if gold was revalued at $1968 dollars per gram as oppose to $45 dollars a gram now then the cost the time taken by some one in Zimbabwe to work for one loaf would be 43 times less/cheaper. On average people scrabble in dirt for about half a loaf per day. So critically by raising the price of gold we could help people initially to help themselves. Therefore putting bread available for each Zimbabwe at 20 minutes work per loaf.
If central banks got together and agreed the current price of gold overnight 60,200 dollars an ounce we could see a real transfer of wealth. Equally each country that holds gold would retain 1/43 less gold and the balance would go into a globally held fund that would then pay for global infrastructure projects in countries needed to build for the future. Only countries with democracy being allowed to take part. There would on behalf of central banks have to be a promise to only buy from Central government democracies gold in bulk.
This would then take for example the US gold from 8133 tonnes down by 189 tonnes. To retain golds value in actual fact the gold would never have to be sold or moved. It would just be a promise not to sell any gold and inversely move 189 tonnes or 6 million ounces and make it available for world projects $361 billion. If all central banks took part the then this would equate a sizable pot for investment.
Each mined ounce would be bought by the bullion central bank at the current 2011 mined price plus tax which would be so say 60,200$ less 59,000$ bullion premium and the premium withheld and put into an investment pot. The money to pay for the premiums would be collected through the IMF based on GDP. The cost to GDP per country would be minimal due to the low amounts of gold collected and teh buy back scheme over a period of time. Governments holding gold would gift 1/43 of their gold to the IMF with the undertaking to buy it back at the inflated price over a period of time. Equally countries with gold could sell to the IMF gold at the new price but only receive 1/43 the monetary value. The other 42 parts (or a lessor amount if mined locally) going into the global pot.
It would have to made illegal to trade more than say 1 kilogram of gold through bullion markets. ETFs would get banned as would leveraging of gold. I am a firm believe that these should banned across all base PMs and commodities anyway.
The new gold fund would look at projects starting with countries that have the lowest GDP.
Why choose gold at all?, why not simply print money?. The reason is simple. Giving or printing money is inflationary and hurts the poor even more.
A new Gold Standard.
The increase in the price of gold would also be used as a way of introducing some value back into fiat currency which currently is fast losing credibility.
Why $60200 per troy ounce?. This happens to also equate to about 15 trillion dollars which is US GDP. and also the projected debt by 2012. By upping the price of gold a cap would need to put on the debt by next year. This would give a chance for the value of the dollar to be reassessed as would other global currencies. Again the dollar could be backed by gold.
If on the other hand you just want to bring discipline to the dollar you would only revalue gold at about $6,000
http://www.spartacus-news.com/2011/02/master-plan-part-1.html
haha that was the quickest junk I've ever seen. Someone must have read the first line realised reading might require some brain power and hit junk. I love the junk button it says so much about so many. Whatever happened to a good debate?
serial junkers
on Wed, 05/11/2011 - 10:13
#1262784
haha that was the quickest junk I've ever seen. Someone must have read the first line realised reading might require some brain power and hit junk. I love the junk button it says so much about so many. Whatever happened to a good debate?
***************************************************************
Cowards, The Rapture Crowd that Prays for the End while jerking off.
They dont want answers to problems! they want the end, they want internal strife in the United States of America!
The real threat to the U.S. is the Rapture Crowd who Pray for the End fo the U.S.!
But bloggers and tweeter people are the problem?????? fucking really? we debate how to make things better, we want an improved America! we act as a public, free think tank!
NO COMMON SENSE! lives in our Government, thusly no common sense lives in our law enforcement! that is supposed to protect NATIONAL INTERESTS!
Shit, lil Bush put fucking Rapture Loving Freaks at the heads of National Security Organizations! Our National Security is provided by people who Pray for the End of the U.S.!
Wake Up! People!
Janet Napolitano and Leon Panetta are rapture freaks? LOL
In case you haven't noticed there's been a change in management since 2008. Not that it's gotten any better.
fascinating
I thought it was as well. Anyway probably get junked again hohum :-)
I think they should give you DSK's job at IMF (he's leaving anyway in french pres. race) and also B'ob job as that of BB's in FED. That should just do it. And have Gen. Petraeus as your praetorian guard. Then I would go and live in Zambamshang-a-lang and eat bread and drink black bosoms.
I was wondering where they were holding the Bilderberg meeting this year!
Zambamshang-a-lang it is
I love the old USA! Bring it Back!!!
Coinage Act of 1792 - Penalty for debasing coins is DEATH
Section 19. And be it further enacted, That if any of the gold or silver coins which shall be struck or coined at the said mint shall be debased or made worse as to the proportion of the fine gold or fine silver therein contained, or shall be of less weight or value than the same out to be pursuant to the directions of this act, through the default or with the connivance of any of the officers or persons who shall be employed at the said mint, for the purpose of profit or gain, or otherwise with a fraudulent intent, and if any of the said officers or persons shall embezzle any of the metals which shall at any time be committed to their charge for the purpose of being coined, or any of the coins which shall be struck or coined at the said mint, every such officer or person who shall commit any or either of the said offenses, shall be deemed guilty of felony, and shall suffer death.
History repeats itself in a tragedy then returns again as a farce. Are we arguing bi metallism again?
Something tells me the FED may have this play locked down. After all, don't they supposedly have all the gold that was in Fort Knox? I'm thinking this whole thing may end up being a dog and pony show to placate the peasants and keep everyone chasing their tails while the wizard dances behind the curtain.
If the Gold standard comes back do you really think a few thousand people with a hundred ounces or so is going to make the FED even blink? For all we know the FED could be sitting on a couple warehouses full of pallets of the shiny yellow stuff. The US goes to Gold Standard, we tell the Chinese to go perform an impossible sex act with themselves, all the debt gets erased, the price of gold skyrockets to the point that no citizen can reasonably afford it, and FED is left at the controls of a now hyper powerful currency that they can use to swat anybody down with.
If this is for real I feel it would be smart to invest in the junior miners as well as physical holdings. Any real signals that the Gold Standard is coming back would trigger a MASSIVE amount of money to swing into the junior miners as M&A activity would increase at a geometric rate as the big dogs start scooping up eveyone with a hole in the ground that produces so much as a flake of gold dust.
If the scenario you have described plays out, then the USgov will nationalize all PM miners, and shareholders will be left with squat.
Close.
FOA: The world is going to change it's currency system before long and this will greatly impact the wealth of dollar asset holders. Not to mention physical gold holders. In the future, international law must declare all large gold reserves to be "public utilities" in the countries they reside. Mines will be very profitable and good investments after they recover from the destruction of our existing paper gold market. Still, their total production will be controlled and somewhat taxed. Small private operations will more likely be heavily taxed.
I'm having a hard time believing this since the outstanding Federal Reserve Notes are not a claim against gold - but a claim against the USA: i.e. ALL the assets, productive or otherwise.
Right now, anyone can exchange the FRNs for any USA asset - unless CONgress puts the kibosh on the purchase. Why limit that exchange to only gold? Surely a productive asset that produces a future stream of revenue is better, no?
Because a gold standard implies a set amount of gold per currency unit. Yes you can exchange a dollar for goods in the US, but it is a continually decreasing amount of goods, with the exception of housing, and mortgage backed securities.
Again, the gold standard is arbitrary and artificial in that it would say that all of the FRNs are represented by whatever amount of the metal the USA happens to hold. It pretends that only gold can represent the underlying of the FRNs. In reality, it represents ALL the assets of the USA, already.
Every FRN is already backed by every asset in the USA, including land, buildings, manufacturing plants, transportation systems etc... It's the nature of the beast.
Printing money just means that more FRNs are needed to exchange for ANY asset in the USA. The same would be true on a gold standard - but why limit the exchange. Officially back the FRN with all assets. No more issue.
Well it sure won't be silver.....
The Fucking Pig-Dog Manipulators sure hit silver over night...
If any of you's Gov't/JPM ,are reading this....
Fuck Off and DIE ,and hopefully a miserable death too....
Thanks in advance.
Actually they hit it twice this morning. Anything to keep the inexorable rise of silver from flowing.
And look at the typical premiums at online sites. Physical is diverging from paper spot. Looks like it's at least 10% higher or more (up to 20%) depending on product.
We're going to be back on a sound money system whether we like it or not. Do you think the creditor nations are going to accept payment in worthless fiat currency? Of course they aren't. At some point (fast approaching), creditor nations hit that point of acceptable losses in dollar donominated assets and completely bail out. They aren't going to be left holding the entire bag. This will collapse the dollar and other fiat currencies. It will also make PMs explode upwards which is another huge incentive for nations holding PMs to adopt a sound money system. For the collapsed economies, the only way anyone will regain faith is if they return to sound money. The question isn't if we will return to sound money, the question is when.
Right! Common sense and fiscal responsibility are about to come flooding back in with a vengeance! Just as soon as the debt ceiling is raised to $1 quadrillion and the FED gets handed a few more $trillion at 0% interest!
I didn't say that everyone would just "wise" up. The Fed and the government as we know are completely meaningless when the currency they print isn't accepted anywhere. You think any of the people gaming the system have any sort of allegiance? Who is going to to do the bidding of the oligarchy without a paycheck? This is every thief for him or herself. Markets always win in the end.
Id rather have the Unicorn Dew currency standard, as its far more likely to happen than a gold standard.
+1
You're mistaken in your belief that the people that control the current system control everything. Central planning can only control and plan so much. Their system continues because it's the one in place right now. However, producers are only going to accept depreciating currency for so long.
If the US returns to the gold standard, and I exchange my bullion for what ever the new currency is called, is that income? I would argue not. If the "dollar" is worth 1/5000 of an ounce of gold, and I exchange a troy ounce for $5000, then it is an exchange of equal values. Is the idea of a basis valid if the nature of the currency is devalued? The official value of gold is now set at 42.2 dollars per ounce by the federal reserve. Will I be able to claim the loss when all the dollars I own are suddenly worth less than one percent of the gold, that the federal reserve said they are?
for a gent who values being a freeman, I would be quite surprised if it does not.
silver will have a major roll to play in the sound money policies coming, as it has been a key componant to those in the world who control money and power.
8,000 tons of gold in ft knox? bbbwbwahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahaaaahhhhhhaahahahhahha
my only comment can be.... http://us.battle.net/wow/en/item/18230 when the fed recognizes this.....maybe then we can have justice
besides TGS, Ive also thought the idea gore has on carbon based trade, isnt all that bad....except for the copyrights/patents/backdoor deals he made....it might have actually been a benefit to the world...
How can you have a gold standard without any gold to back it?
Our "8000" tons of gold is supposedly being held as collateral for "debts incurred" through the federal reserve. Since our debt grows exponentially every day, how much gold will we have left paying it off at our contracted rate of DIRT CHEAP.
This country rose up financially from our silver and gold finds in the west, and we will die financially from it being stolen.
The Debt/Fiat for gold project has been a smashing success.
When you see our Government hand over "We the Peoples" Gold to a foriegn power.. ala' China! you will know that we have been sold out at the top completely and that our Country is BEYOND! Fucked!
He is right.
If we look at silver, gold prices, Gold standard is still few years away.
Not exactly as I predicted, but in general, silver crash leg 2 continues. Now down to 31,5 than back a bit and down to 28-30 in rapid succession ( this week or early next) .
http://saposjoint.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2626&p=32377#p32372
Same for oil.
http://saposjoint.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2626&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&sta...
If you divide the official U.S. national debt, which also somehow corresponds to the money in circulation, of $14.3 tn by the 8000 tons of gold allegedly stored at Fort Knox, which would somehow have to serve as a backing in a gold standard (surprising, isn't it?) then you get a price per ounce of gold of :
Wait for it.
~ $ 56000.00 / oz.
Tadaa. We're all rich.
Monedas theory of price relativity : All that can be bought / All the Gold that is = The price of Gold ! I respectfully submit $56,000 is very conservative !
When you are forced to turn over the nation's gold to the federal reserve at 1930's prices (per legislation) to pay off existing debts, rich is not the best description, shafted is better.
Jim Rogers says a gold standard won't work. I agree. Time for a wheat standard.
or a water standard
So five years later, int'l bankers may ask US to pay back debts in Gold not fiat so US will be in debts forever.
Precisely why it will never happen.
Obama already sold all the gold in Ft. Knox during his trip to India.
Why do you think half the navy followed with him?
Why do you think they built a "bomb proof tunnel" all the way from the harbor to the museum?
It wasn't to protect the president. The ships secured the delivery, and the tunnel hid the convoy that made the final delivery of the largest gold sale in the history of the world.
Seems a bit too speculative for my tastes. This hinges on the notion that someone wants to "save" the dollar, rather than kill it and replace it.
Historically, the fiats in collapse didn't get saved.
I have a serious question for the educated in here:
Silver or Gold?
I feel that silver will rise faster in proportion to its price than gold but it will also fall faster. Silver seems to be in a crowded market with many speculative investors whereas gold is in a market with investors like central banks, large countries, and royalty.
I know silver has the most upside but it appears that gold is the safer choice and also has upside, though less upside than silver. Seems to me like silver holders may experience more financial pain than gold investors.
I know many people here will recommend holding both which is always smart but how is everyone allocating their investment focus in regards to PMs?
Thoughts?
Forbes is a fucking idiot. Guess Big Ben didn't put on lube one night down under.
Him and his corporatist flat tax.
Another silver spoon dipshit, trying to hold onto his inheritence.
Glass-Steagall is the answer. It always was.
As for fiat, of course he's right about this.
But if I go up to you and say the sky is blue? Yes that's true.
And your mom's a two dollar whore....what would you say?
Well here we have Forbes saying....fiat is toast. which is like...sky is blue.
But you know the next thing out of his mouth is to screw you over, in a stealthy manner. (well stealthy to idiots, everybody else can see it a mile away)
C'mon steve tell me how your flat tax scheme if enacted a few years back would've stopped the derivatives and federal reserve? Tell me how it would have stopped outsourcing or the housing bubble?
Oh that's right, it wouldn't of. Just made the corps richer and widened the gap between real people and real dumbshits.
So mark this down as Steve Forbes the idiot with the Captain Obvious comment of the day. Isn't this sort of like the 'flip that house'. If Steve 'idiot' Forbes gets it.....
I like Steve Forbes ! All we have to do is snap our fingers and return to the Gold Standard ? We do have to and will return to the Gold Standard ! The problem is much worse than it had to be thanks to Pollyanna Randian Filth Fiat Enabling Govmint Hole Lickers who hoped it would get better by itself ! "Can't we all jes git along ?" ! It's gonna git ugly ! Wish it weren't so !
Gold standard? Sure, but not before we've exhausted all other possibilities. Including mass starvation and hyper-inflation.
I don't think anyone in power will allow a gold standard, unless it is setup so that they can manipulate it. First of all, the vast majority of voting Americans are stupid political and financial retards and would never know how to stop them. Secondly, there is not a sufficient degree of commitment and power among the handful of leaders who could stop the oligarchs from setting up a crooked new system. Thirdly and most importantly, the exact same oligarchs/banksters/money-changers in charge now would be setting up the new system.
Steve Forbes and Neil Bortz must live in plastic bubbles on the moon. Bloody revolution is usually the only thing that changes situations like this, and the West still has a long way to fall before they "wake up" and notice the wolves at their doors. A real gold standard will require the mother of all black swans and maybe not even after that.
The GOLD/SILVER/EURO sell off and USD rally I have warned about is happening.
http://stockmarket618.wordpress.com
Forbes: "If the gold standard had been in place in recent years, the value of the U.S. dollar would not have weakened as it has and excessive federal spending would have been curbed, Forbes told HUMAN EVENTS"
What a buffoon.
Maybe he should study the actual history of gold standards, debasement, forgery of gold deposit slips and excesses in inter-country metal flows.
Then he would understand that no standard, not even gold standard is immune to the corruption of the powers that are able to enforce and control the standard.
If that goes -- and historically it has *always* gone also with gold standard (read the real finance history books, not some gold-bug-site idiotic-revisionist-mock-history), then goes the soundness of currency.
Our choice is not gold standard per se, but a system that incentivices enforcement of sound currency systems and severely penalizes even attempts to distort them for sovereign or individual gain.
Good luck getting that through in the US senate.
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"
It's not enough to switch to a different standard-- no matter what system is in place, it's people that fuck it up. We need sweeping change in terms of the policymakers and politicians if there is any hope for a better more fair system.
Steve Forbes would make a good lampshade or a candle. Other than that, I like his call.