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Stop Trading

Tyler Durden's picture




 

One trader's (to be named as XXX) attempts to understand why his money has to go straight to the big banks' top line following a DDRX buy in courtesy of Interactive Brokers. The following is the record of the chat session that transpired minutes ago.

ChatSys: This chat is associated with ticket #809621. Please record this number for use in future inquiries. You are currently in room 'General '.
Aimee: Hello, this is Aimee, how can I help you?
XXX: Hello, I am going to get a buy in on my account of ddrx shares, on 90 mins notice
XXX: I am going to take a big loss on this forced buy in and i am not happy about it
Aimee: Please let me transfer you to our trade group
ChatSys: Transferring ChatSession from 'General ' to 'Trade Problems'
ChatSys: Megan C has joined the chat.
Megan C: Hello, this is 'meganc'. How may I help you?
XXX: I am getting abuy in on ddrx at a nice loss
Megan C: I apologize for the transfer. Unfortunately, we have no further details about the potential buy-in other than what is already stated in the notification you were sent.
Megan C: Remember that when you short stock, you are at risk for being bought in at any time, with or without notice.
XXX: Where is that notice?
Megan C: the notice you received warning you of the potential buy-in.
Megan C: NOTICE OF POSSIBLE BUY-IN Based upon information available through 14:30 today, we remain unable to locate and borrow / re-borrow the shares necessary to meet delivery obligations on certain short stock positions in your account. As current SEC regulations now strictly enforce delivery obligations, these short stock positions will be subject to forced buy-in by IB should our continued efforts to borrow or re-borrow the necessary shares today be unsuccessful. A list of stocks in your account UXXXXXX that may be at risk to a forced buy-in, based on current settlement information is provided below. You may wish to consider repurchasing your position(s) in these stocks in order to control your portfolio/risk at any time prior to the end of the current regular trading session (16:00 EST). Transactions occurring after 16:00 cannot be considered against the delivery obligation. DDRX (500 shares) As noted above, we will continue to make every effort to locate and borrow the shares necessary to allow you to maintain these short positions, however, given the limited time available in the current trading session we will be unable to provide any further updates as to your account status until delivery of your daily activity statement. Please refer to the following web page and the related tabs detailing various operational details for additional information: http://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/trading/shortableStocks.php Interactive Brokers Risk Management
Megan C: that notice.
XXX: You were not able to locate the borrow for two weeks????
XXX: Were you selling shares that you did not have a chance of borrowing?
Megan C: Sir, please review our buy-in procedures and policies located on our website www.interactivebrokers.com---->trading--->shortable stocks. I understand your frustration, however, when you short stock you are at risk for being bought in at anytime. We are having difficulty locating the stock to borrow today and that is why you received this notice. Our policy is outlined in detail on the link above
XXX: I am not talking about today. The rules are very specific about stock lending.
XXX: Lending a stock that you do not have is naked short selling
XXX: And I am not the one who should be taking this loss if you are selling stocks that you do not have.
Megan C: If you have a compliant about our buy in procedures or our lending practices, feel free to voice those through a problem ticket from account management--->message center. In regards to the notice, that does stand at this time so please manage any risk you have with this potential buy in as you see fit.
XXX: The settlement rules are promulgated by the SEC, not account management. You do not have an unlimited amount of time to locate a borrow.
XXX: The stock has been run up in the time that had sold it.
XXX: And because you lent shares that you did not have a chance to borrow, in violation of SEC rules, I am taking a loss.
Megan C: Yes, I am aware of where the rules are determined. I stated that if you have a complaint regarding how IB handles the buy-in procedures, the best venue to voice that would be through a ticket from account management.
XXX: I have one hour before you give me a nice trading loss. I do not have time to go to account management tickets.
XXX: Correct htat, I have 34 minutes.
Megan C: The buy-in notice stands, that is not something that will be rescinded and you need to manage the risk associated with that as you see fit.

XXX: I will contact the SEC, as well as Chris Dodd at Senate Banking and the office of Barnery Frank at the House. Ok?
XXX: You lent shares that you did not have and that you did not have a resonable chance to borrow. That is naked short selling.
Megan C: Once again, this notice still stands and you need to manage any risk associated with that as you see fit. If you want to file a complaint regarding this feel free to do so through a problem ticket. Our buy in procedure and lending practices are outlined in DETAIL on the link provided in the notification as well as in the link I provided above. The practices and buy in procedures are all in line with the SEC rules regarding delivery put in place in 2008. If you have any additional questions or complaints, feel free to send in a problem ticket. Please manage the risk as you see fit
ChatSys: This chat session is being terminated by the CSR

 

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Fri, 07/17/2009 - 15:30 | 8916 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

the thing is, they probably did not short shares they didn't have, they were just yanked.

this market is being propped up like crazy, anyone who shorts when s&p is below 900 is asking for it.

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 15:32 | 8921 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Ouch.

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 15:37 | 8923 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

This shit is deliberate. They want everything to be a short squeeze or they are hiding their manipulation behind the facade of a short squeeze. BULLSHIT I SAY TO THESE VERMIN.

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 15:37 | 8924 quant-this
quant-this's picture

That is why I stopped using them and why I avoid any non-limit transactions on ICE.

 

I had a fantastic options position ahead of a Fed meeting and the play worked out just like I wanted. However, it was a fast market and at one point the bid was higher than the offer. I had a huge profit and decided that I wasnt going to be greedy and get even if it meant getting some of that profit taken by either an IB market maker (largest options market maker around) or anyone else on ICE. I hit a market sell and all of a sudden saw a huge loss. They gave me a price that was completely not in line with anything quoted or related to the underlying security.

 

I complained, they pretended to talk to ICE officials and then told me that I should not have hit market in a fast market and it was my fault. I closed my account, moved my options trading to ThinkorSwim and my algorithmic trading elsewhere with customizable APIs).

 

But hey, they have very good serious ads on CNBC so that is a plus. 

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 15:38 | 8925 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Those goldman assholes drove this stock up from .37 (CENTS!) in march to $24 just a week or two ago. They report tuesday before the bell. No options available so you have to short it directly.

I guess they don't want anyone making money but themselves.

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 15:56 | 8945 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

If you don't get it let me explain it better. Diedrich's coffee is basically hanging on by a thread. No p/e, had to sell 1/2 their franchises to starbucks. If they don't beat tues am, they're going down big (or should at least). They have no p/e because they have no earnings.

I hope the execs there cashed out and explain how their stock has been manipulated and announces bancruptcy plans.

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 15:39 | 8926 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

This market action is PURE GARBAGE! I expect a full blown crash sometime in the next few months. You can only pull this crap for so long and then BOOM!

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 16:18 | 8984 Lets_Eat_Amen
Lets_Eat_Amen's picture

i don't see how you can forecast that.  Nothing like this has been viewed in the entirety of our history so it's impossible to say that it'll crash immediately.....although its champagne on me if it happens ....come on SRS!

But besides that, the short opportunities are fantasies at this point.  tyler is right with "stop trading"...nothing makes sense.  I'm about to close out some shorts, say fcuk you wallstreet, and even looked at becoming a canadian yesterday. 

 

But when it all does end, i'll be dancing in the streets, kissing babies, and crying all at the same time.

 

...i think Holden Caulfield's nervous breakdown was something similar to that, right?

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 17:11 | 9022 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Lets_Eat_Amen said>>
I'm about to close out some shorts, say fcuk you wallstreet, and even looked at becoming a canadian yesterday.

Take it from an ex canadian, you will have a safer, very boring life that will be taxed into oblivion. Avoid southern ontario all together unless you enjoy pollution, severely congested road ways , pacified zombie populace, daily chem trail sprayings etc.

http://www.cheniere.org/index2.html

Read the bearden quote below the photo,(sums up my personal experiences/battle with the canadian so called democratic institutions)>> you have to go a little farther than canada to live again friend.
Best of luck!

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 19:20 | 9080 Lets_Eat_Amen
Lets_Eat_Amen's picture

hmm...too bad, i've known some cool Canadians in my travels.     ....well, to Argentina then...the mouth of the beast!!     ...at least the women are beautiful

Sat, 07/18/2009 - 00:36 | 9234 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Moron.

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 15:39 | 8927 gramps
gramps's picture

I am net short and received a margin call yesterday. Normally when I exceed margin requirements I get an email a day or two later. Yesterday, minutes after I exceeded my margin requirement, I received 2 emails and a phone call from TD Ameritrade. It was very strange. Could this short covering rally be brought on by the SEC? Or even worse could the brokerages be in on this manipulation.

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 15:54 | 8942 doerr
doerr's picture

... and now that TDAmeritrade owns TOS ...

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 15:40 | 8928 demsco
demsco's picture

State Street has been a bitch about loaning shares. This will ocntinue as the government needs the market to be propped up to show they "fix" the problem. This is why some banks were allowed to pay back TARP and others were not. Also, the warrant purchases were reduced as part of a deal, IMHO, to maintain the same state control as was in effect during full TARP conditions.

 

Our markets are anything other than free right now. This is one little step for many, but one giant step for socialism.

 

 

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 15:46 | 8933 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Be patient... it's probably going to get better in the future... You'll get a notice that you have to buy or sell stock at a price determined by one of the connected entities (such as GS) or get a steep fine and jail time.

"Buy AIG at $50 now or else. P.S. We just happen to be market makers in AIG"

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 15:52 | 8939 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

it'll be worse. they will just seize your 401k and IRA accounts and invest them for you. just watch.

btw, here comes the end of day pump, the s&p will close positive, mark it.

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 16:21 | 8985 Lets_Eat_Amen
Lets_Eat_Amen's picture

i think that's what happened in Argentina.  The state seized retirement accounts to "save" them, though the speculation is that they're bankrupt and needed that as a source for funding. 

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 16:31 | 8996 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Reminds me of the South Park episode where Stan goes
to invest $100 his grandmother gives. Bank employee
takes the money, starts tapping on his computer while
mumbling about money markets and CDO's, and after
five seconds, announces "And it's gone!". You can
watch the clip at Comedy Central.

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 17:44 | 9036 Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

Classic

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 15:45 | 8932 slore
slore's picture

my borrowable inventory is tight right now, i can only get ahold of 200 measly shares :|

if this gets pursued would IB have to show proof they were responsible in the lending of shares the day of?

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 15:48 | 8935 agrotera
agrotera's picture

Better send this conversation to Patrick Byrne and the crew at deepcapture.com.

Chris Dodd...how hopeless it is to send anything that matters to this puppet.  

...what a racket. 

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 15:58 | 8952 VegasBD
VegasBD's picture

Yea I thought that was funny too....who would threaten someone by namedropping Chris Dodd of all people.

 

If peter schiff gets his seat and boots dodd out.....now THEN that would be a credible threat!!!!

 

 

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 16:19 | 8983 troublesum
troublesum's picture

I dontated to schiffforsenate.com... I cant change the world but i can help the ones that can.

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 23:10 | 9122 agrotera
agrotera's picture

Schiff needs to get elected but while he is at it, get some other do gooders with scruples (who can't be bought) to run and oust all the other bank puppets who voted for TARP!!!! We need to take back our republic and with hope, Schiff is one to start the process.

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 15:51 | 8937 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

This had happened to me with SHD and MAR

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 16:26 | 8989 Lets_Eat_Amen
Lets_Eat_Amen's picture

MAR is fuked.  I work in revenue for a hospitality company....black fucking holes are out there enveloping the industry right now.  Calculated Risk posts the most recent RevPAR numbers by Smith Travel & Research, from which I can say that an 18% average loss in revenue put almost any hotel company in red.  Hotels will be sold off in mass starting this winter.  Once the in season is over and owners realize that the little that they are gleaning is squandered after RevPAR drops again in the offseason, defaults will be soring.  This just in by Smith Travel:

 

 

STR drastically reduces hotel revenue forecast for '09

TravelWeekly.com / 7 Jul 2009 / By Jeri Clausing

 

Citing heavy rate discounting, STR released an updated and unusually bleak forecast for the U.S. hotel industry for the rest of 2009. STR, known to be among the more optimistic industry forecasters, expects revenue per available room (RevPAR) to drop 17.1% this year. STR’s previous revised forecast in April suggested the industry’s RevPAR for 2009 would be down 9.8%. 

 

While a number of factors contributed to the drastic revision, STR President Mark Lomanno said steep discounting tops the list. "It is disappointing, surprising and a little bit sad," Lomanno said. "One of the things we felt was that the industry would hold pricing more than it’s been able to. "If you’re looking at the last downturns, a lot of the commentary that we heard from the brands and the revenue managers is that they learned their lessons in 2001-2002 and they would be able to react better the next time around. For whatever reason, maybe because this downturn is so severe and so dramatic and so different than they were expecting, what they learned they weren’t able to apply. "Whatever the reason was or [however] it transpired that way, the decline in pricing is more dramatic than it’s ever been, more than we thought it would be, indeed more than we think it should be," he added. 

 

STR also downgraded its forecast because normal economic factors haven’t rebounded the way STR had anticipated and because of many recent hotel openings, Lomanno said. STR projects that at the end of 2009, supply will be up 3%, demand will be down 5.5%, occupancy will decline 8.4% and average daily rate will drop 9.7%.

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 15:52 | 8938 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

this doesn't smell right from both sides. Sounds like someone (Mr. XXX) doesn't have enough cash and is getting a forced sale through margin. Also what was his purchase price? Too many variables unanswered here.

Can you provide a bit more detail before we assume that the entire market is forcing sales to keep the lights on in lower manhattan?

MS

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 15:57 | 8947 gramps
gramps's picture

It says right in the chat. It wasn't a margin call. The shares were never borrowed. It was a naked short.

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 16:00 | 8956 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

woops my bad......just a little angry at what passes for a market today.

MS

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 16:14 | 8976 3Gonads
3Gonads's picture

 please, never short a stock. clearly you don't have a clue .

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 17:32 | 9028 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Fuck off Mr knowitall..I made a moistake people get to you know. I'm sure you never have if I asked you
MS

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 15:57 | 8948 Gilgamesh
Gilgamesh's picture

I don't think you're familiar with a "buy-in" versus a "margin call".  There's more than enough detail provided in the first few paragraphs.

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 16:02 | 8958 Buttercup
Buttercup's picture

500 Shares on a $18 stock.  The margin requirement would have $13,500.  He states that they should have borrowed the shares 2 weeks ago.  I'm looking at the charts, and I conservatiely come to a $1.50 a share loss, not exactly a big deal, since the amount of the loss was well covered in the amount of margin that he would have put up for this trade. 

My question is that she keeps referring to the lending practices of IB, and perhaps there in lies the answer to his problem of them forcing a buy on his account.  If someone could review that, perhaps there is langauge in there that gives IB a pre-determined time frame to find the shares to borrow.

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 16:17 | 8979 Gilgamesh
Gilgamesh's picture

It's up to their P&S department to have the shares by settlement, at the latest (supposedly with proof of lender & time).  If they still don't, it's reported as a fail.  That would then hit NSCC (aka DTCC).  There are various amounts of fails you (well, your clearing firm - unless you self-clear - and they most likely have many other firms like IB) can have outstanding at any one time without having to be bought-in, per the Regulators.  Who they choose to force to fix their fails... that's another story.

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 15:53 | 8941 Stuart
Stuart's picture

absolute bastards they are..

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 15:54 | 8944 gramps
gramps's picture

I had a thought. Could this be a conspiracy to facilitate a forced short covering rally to free up shares for the big boys to short.

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 15:59 | 8953 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

They report tuesday and are going down hard. Whoever is behind this (someone powerful) called the sec to recall all shorts so they don't lose any of their precious $$$. Greedy bastards.

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 15:59 | 8954 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

I had that thought as well but in order to achieve that there would have to be MASSIVE coordination in order to keep those recently freed short shares from re-appearing into retail trader's again....just thinking about that makes my head hurt. Possible to do but if true then fuck us all.
MS

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 16:04 | 8961 Gilgamesh
Gilgamesh's picture

All it takes is someone with good access to the NSCC CNS system.

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 20:57 | 9123 agrotera
agrotera's picture

vomit time

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 16:30 | 8995 Lets_Eat_Amen
Lets_Eat_Amen's picture

that occurred to me as well.  i've been questioning the strength and quality of the volume recently.  Shorts have been obliterated, how much more short positions are left?

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 15:58 | 8949 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

So they just pretended that he had the shares for a week and a half? Bucket shop?

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 15:58 | 8950 Undertaker (not verified)
Undertaker's picture

 

He just go jacked off with a handful of cockle burrs. Ouch.

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 16:01 | 8957 Oso
Oso's picture

ladies and gents, lets take a step back from the conspiracy theories for one moment and think of other explanations.  One that comes to mind is this:  banks/financials are desperately trying to deleverage.  what are the easiest ways to do this in a hurry?  well, it seems to me that cutting securities lending is a great way to do just that, and fast.

 

maybe this is malicious, but i think it is giving far too much credit to the powers that be, and other more rational explanations fit.

Sat, 07/18/2009 - 02:13 | 9270 Counterparty (not verified)
Counterparty's picture

Agreed - there's a lot of shit going on in the market, but not everything is a conspiracy, and not all conspiracies are illegal.

Our trader got a forced buy in; BFD - that can happen, and it's not necessary for the broker to have failed to borrow. Borrows can be recalled, and when they are, buy-ins get forced.

Someone mentioned "reporting this" to Patrick Byrne earlier. Am I the only one who remembers him as a guy who likes to *cause* short squeezes rather than complain about them? And for those who think this is a manufactured short squeeze, think Occam's Razor - why on Earth couldn't it, far more simply, be an actual short squeeze?

Don't over-think it, people.

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 16:04 | 8960 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

BTW does anyone else see the post is severely squeezed to an unreadable size? The whole transcript is about 1/2" wide...so are the comments...at least on my end.

MS

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 16:07 | 8966 jym
jym's picture

Yeah i've gotten to where i just buy calls and puts on index ETFs and i try not to hold anything overnight.

Crazy times to be in the market

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 16:12 | 8970 3Gonads
3Gonads's picture

 Once again,  tin foil hat stuff. Misrepresenting the facts.

 

 I feel for xxx, but if the share's are called back by the lender, there is nothing the broker can do.

 

 This is the risk of shorting.  If you can't handle that , BUY PUTS.

 

  I don't like buy ins any more than the next guy, but as long as there is no 'conspiracy' on the part of the broker, you're bitching at the wrong moon.

 

 

 

 

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 16:40 | 9003 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Don't feel bad for XXX. He tried to make a quick buck and got burned.

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 22:06 | 9148 aka_ces
aka_ces's picture

"Buy PUTS" -- that's what I'm thinking, too, but then I start wondering if things are so rigged that these too will be subject to some sort of roadblock.

As I am far away from the mechanisms of market making, please someone answer whether it is possible to get rooked while holding in-the-money puts.  I would think not, but not much would surprise me….

And, what about short calls ? -- logically, another bearish alternative, and distinguishable from the underlying, but nevertheless my question applies to them also.

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 16:11 | 8971 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

i AM NOT AN EXPERT, BUT COULD IT BE AS SIMPLE AS SOMEBODY BETTER CONNECTED (OR PERHAPS SOMEDOBY PAYING MORE COMIMISSION THAT YOU TO BORROW STOCK) PREEMPTED YOU AND YOU WHERE FORCED TO COVER AND THE SHARES LENT TO THAT NEW PARTY?

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 16:12 | 8973 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

My hedge fund type clients told me back in november of 2007 that they simply stopped trading. They said only invest into guns and butter. My .02$

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 16:16 | 8982 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

you know there's a pretty good market in ddrx puts

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 17:05 | 9020 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

No there' not! Diedrich's doesn't have options. Its a penny stock, or was until this whole 'short squeeze rally' started mar 10.

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 16:22 | 8987 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

the sad part, even fool Bush was talking about Nanotech initiative and similar. wonder what part of the current stimulus, bailouts will go to anything similar, -5%?
: (

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 16:24 | 8988 3Gonads
3Gonads's picture

 In all fairness, there is something odd about some of these buy ins.

 

 DDRX is, as of today  (now) AVAILABLE to short at IB.

 

  I don't know why that is ,or if XXX would actually have been bought in or not.

  It's a touchy issue that should get clarified.

 

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 16:34 | 8998 Gilgamesh
Gilgamesh's picture

My bet would be that IB had an oustanding fail associated with his trade, and someone never bothered to clean it up.  Too much time passed and a deadline was put down from another department.

 

They can say that the stock is available to borrow, but that's just advertising what NSCC is showing to IB (probably).  When they didn't have the right sequence of approvals, and no one was willing to make an exception for Mr. XXX's account, they would rather just close it out before it hits the next level of reporting - rather than go borrow the shares available now and try to justify the breech of sequence at higher internal levels.

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 16:27 | 8991 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

This market is set to blast off next week.

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 16:29 | 8993 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

In Interactive Brokers... I was able to short this without any issues. So... it might not be the right stock. BUT, the way it can be bought in can vary on the original locate that Interactive Brokers original obtained, (ie. through Mutual Funds like State Street, Vanguard, Fidelity...) and if one of those guys want to sell... there is no more locate. It is always assumed that there is no guarantee in locates. I have been bought in many times... WB back in Nov. 2008, GM back when it is no bankrupt... Part of the game.

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 16:29 | 8994 X on the MTA
X on the MTA's picture

unless you are getting a short rebate you should be playing synthetics anyways...

 

and don't even try to tell me that the B/A spread is goingto kill you or that there's topo big a PUT CALL disparity in pricing because then i'll have to send your ass to read about put-call parity.

 

If hedging the delta of an option and susequently hedging the vega and gamma are not second-nature to you then you have no business trading... well, at least not if you want to make money.

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 16:36 | 8999 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

What's the conspiracy theory here? This stock got recalled. Happens all the time on heavily shorted stocks. That's why institutions have multiple PB's. If you're retail you're shit out of luck. Hopefully this guy will learn from this.

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 16:37 | 9002 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

I just loaded up on SDS at the close. Looking for a nice 1-2 percent pullback next week from todays 940 close. Then sell and wait to repeat. Wish me luck!

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 16:46 | 9010 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Good luck! I sold August SDS Puts that need some help.

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 17:12 | 9023 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

You are going to get crushed.

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 17:15 | 9024 1TAAT
1TAAT's picture

They had the shares at the time of the borrow. But since, those shares are being called back by the long position to sell. Thats all, not that complicated. The issue for the trader is, you need to know that ahead of any swing short, that you are always in danger of this. Also, no offense, but he might need to review his stop policy. This market changed on Monday morning, not Friday afternoon. Good luck to all, this market won't go down until GS says so.

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 17:33 | 9029 Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

Anyone that attempts to interact with the so called "markets" in the United States and many other countries must consider that the "rules" do not exist and all of the funds placed in those markets is at risk from the actions of the so called market makers.  Why on earth would anyone put money to work in a corrupt marketplace?

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 17:43 | 9035 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

i'm an IB client and although their customer service isn't always good, on this case, they're right on.

IB has a great ability to locate stock, DDRX has fluctuated between able-to-short and not-able-to-short since it was $4. nothing unusual there.

it's likely whoever they borrowed from sold their shares, so no more borrow allowed. at least 1000 shares are available to short on DDRX now.

this guy can not have possibly taken a big loss based on today's trading. and there's no volume spike later in the afternoon after this chat. i call b.s.

also to another commentator: using patrick byrne as a source for almost anything is insane. the guy's a nutbag through and through, and it's not worth trying to pick out the one or two things he's right on versus the hundreds he's wrong on.

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 18:00 | 9046 poydras
poydras's picture

The chat session explains nothing beyond their standard buy-in language.  You need to determine short sale share availabilty leading up to your notice.  Consider yourself lucky you had two weeks.  That indicates that they were able to find the shares temporarily.  The answer to where the available shares went is another question altogether.

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 18:01 | 9047 dnarby
dnarby's picture

Solution:

 

Cover, then reshort immediately.  If you can't short it, then short a competitor.

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 18:01 | 9048 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Similarly strange events (one forced buy-in, one erroneous margin call, two incorrectly executed buys/sells) have happened to me with 3 different online brokers. I am net short and down big, have stopped all trading in July, realizing that my losses are an inevitable part of a market that is little more than a hopping-about of marionnettes with painted smiles.

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 19:00 | 9072 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

I was getting regular 'margin-calls' about 1 month for a few months a few months back, even when I was all cash positive and no short positions too. After talking to my broker and confirming that I was all good, I just ingored then from there.

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 19:06 | 9075 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

The one thing that can overwhelm the bias of the constant bid hedgies and "big boys" is an asset allocation reset by major institutions -- of the sort that happens from significant earnings. IBM saved a Google collapse today. Next week the significant reporters are HAL on Monday before the open, CAT at the opening Tuesday (Apple is Tuesday too but they do not reflect broad economic health), Dupont DD before the open . . . and the point is there are too many major player companies that are the real determinants of the S&P P/E reporting next week to manipulate them all. If their earnings bespeak as reported numbers that yield P/E north of 130, the institutions will dump on auto pilot.

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 19:36 | 9092 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Yes anon 9075 we see things the same way. This is why i loaded up on SDS at the close today. After looking at all these earnings pe is way high. Why look at NVLS they may make .50 cents next year why a pe of 40 sounds like a great investment!

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 19:20 | 9079 No More Bubbles
No More Bubbles's picture

It means the stock is about to collapse and they don't want to pay the shorts.

I had this happen to me years ago on a short.  I asked if I purchased the stock if I could lend the shares I just bought to myself and they said no.  The whole game is a pathetic rigged joke of a scam.

It's all part of the continued criminal organization known as Wall Street. 

 

 

Sat, 07/18/2009 - 02:20 | 9285 Counterparty (not verified)
Counterparty's picture

In the case you describe, they were simply protecting you from yourself.

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 19:33 | 9088 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Let me add my little comment here. When a trader shorts a stock, he is required to locate that stock (That's the job of the clearing firm). On settlement Date (3 days later), the clearing firm needs to borrow to cover the short position in the customer account. What can happen is that the Stock Loan department is going to recall the stock. HOWEVER, the procedure must give 3 days to the customer. Step 1, firm is suposed to send an Intent to buy in so the customer can cover that day (and 3 days later, the shares can be returned). We've never seen a buy in being executed the same day as the notice! That's plain ridiculous (Simply because buying in today does not clean the fail for another 3 days!!). Also, if IB had been a little pro-active, it would have tried to borrow somewhere else! Even better, customer could probably tell IB Stock Loan department where to find the shares!! DDRX is not that hard to borrow! make a phone or 2 and you'll find the shares...

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 19:38 | 9094 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

oh and btw Fed @ 0, short rebates are negative these days!! don't expect to make short interest from the short stock. not going to happen! Same for the credit balance!! Simple Math... Let's say, I am a customer, walk in, ask for Fed - 100 bps on credit Balance! bingo, Fed @ 0, you just got screwed on your credit balance. That's a point to raise with any of your brokers. No charge on credit balance, even with fed @ 0!

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 21:02 | 9126 agrotera
agrotera's picture

Anyone have feedback about interactive brokers you wouldn't mind sharing? 

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 21:12 | 9130 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

IB = very good, as long as you don't require hand holding.

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 23:02 | 9179 agrotera
agrotera's picture

thank you!

Fri, 07/17/2009 - 22:13 | 9154 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Why is this newsworthy? It's not a big deal. Buy-ins happen from time to time especially if you're in something that's heavily shorted and has a low float.

Sat, 07/18/2009 - 03:24 | 9365 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

My God, what a stupid transcript. The "trader" named XXX should go back to Wendy's flipping burgers. IB did the right thing and MeganC was way too nice to this idiot. She should simply have canceled this idiot's account. What does a buy in have to do with naked shorting? The guy shorted a 100m micro cap and then whines? Give me a f***** break...

Sun, 07/19/2009 - 08:07 | 9870 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Losing a borrow whilst in a very crowded short <$100mm microcap stock is routine, happens all the time. It in no way implies the stock was shorted naked by the broker - any time a long sells, any stock loaned out by him has to get called back away from the short. Expecting a website page to update in real-time along with second-by-second market action is naive to say the least.

The customer in this transcript doesn't seem to understand any of this, since he draws conclusions (naked shorting) on the basis of no evidence. A forced buy-in only means that there's no stock available NOW - it has no implication that stock was not available 1 hour earlier, let alone 2 weeks ago.

If we are going to talk conspiracy theories, then why not question the original post? Everyone seems to be assuming it is genuine - but there are no screencaps shown, meaning it could quite easily be a pure fake transcript made up and emailed to the blog by a competitor of IB. It could even be entirely made up by Zerohedge to generate more blog hits and ad revenue - after all, can Zerohedge deny that they have a vested interest in posting controversy which generates 80+ replies and potentially increases website hits? Haven't Zerohedge already de facto admitted that they have broken the law in the past by spreading malicious libel - their take-down of various materials in response to DMCA notices certainly suggests that?

So, which is more likely - a retail piker clueless about the mechanics of stock locates has single-handedly uncovered a giant conspiracy by InteractiveBrokers, Goldman Sachs, and the Illuminati to ruin a coffee company by naked shorting a gargantuan 200 share position for 2 weeks; or that IB temporarily run out of stock locates available for shorting in a heavily-shorted microcap, and self-confessed law-breaking rumor mill Zerohedge tried to pimp a few more Google Adsense dollars by spreading anonymous gossip and trying to spin it to stir up their target market of pot-smoking 9/11 conspiracy theorists and then call it "investigative journalism". I'm sure the Pulitzer Prize committee while be calling soon!

Mon, 07/20/2009 - 12:37 | 10288 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

this piker should be happy he got called in, if he's whining on having to pay 50c more for the stock on friday, he'd have to pay more than $2 to cover today!

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