Stratfor On Libya, The West And The Narrative Of Democracy

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Tue, 03/22/2011 - 11:19 | 1085957 AN0NYM0US
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Gadhafi did not rule for 42 years because he was simply a dictator using force against innocents, but rather because he speaks to a real and powerful dimension of Libya.

 

or

because he had friends in high places both corporate and political from Europe and America that were his enablers.

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 11:20 | 1085979 JollyRoger
JollyRoger's picture

The same could be said about Saddam Hussein before he fell out of favor.

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 12:26 | 1086232 Threeggg
Threeggg's picture

No,

Saddam would not accept fiatsco's for his oil or put in laymans term's, would not let them set up a central bank system (Petrol Dollar System) in Iraq

Sound Ironic.......................?

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 12:36 | 1086254 barkster
barkster's picture

Stratfor is an Illuminati shill who disseminates disinformation - read with caution...

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 13:39 | 1086467 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Yes, exactly. But they render a valuable service in that they articulate the disinformation very well so you know exactly what the explicit agenda is.

As for the implicit agenda, we have to work that out for ourselves. It is clear to me, however, that the implicit agenda is to create chaos in the middle east in order to promote much higher oil prices.

After all, hasn't that been just about the only thing we've accomplished in the middle east over the last 20 years? Create the maximum amount of disorder and confusion? Why would this Libyan adventure be any different?

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 15:08 | 1086952 Arch Duke Ferdinand
Arch Duke Ferdinand's picture

""Stratfor is an Illuminati shill who disseminates disinformation - read with caution""

Why "War is merely the continuation of politics by other means." ....

http://seenoevilspeaknoevilhearnoevil.blogspot.com/2011/02/why-war-is-merely-continuation-of.html

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 15:33 | 1087028 Lucius Corneliu...
Lucius Cornelius Sulla's picture

I don't know about Illuminati, but George Freidman is most definitely a neocon to the core.  He openly supports maintaining and expanding the American Empire.  I recently read an article of his where he laments American unwillingness to embrace their Imperialistic role in the world and derides those who oppose it as "fringe" elements who are radical and out of touch.

Wed, 03/23/2011 - 11:21 | 1090312 fx
fx's picture

yes, and his (and strafors's) mostly superficial kind of understanding of regional, social and political dynamics is typical for the neo-cons as well.

As for Libya, I wonder if France didn't already have enough trouble with its North-African immigrants. Oviously not, as Sarkozy seems determined (or simply stupid enough) to add more dynamite to the time bomb that is ticking in the suburbs of Paris and elsewhere. But perhaps it is not really his fault. Hasn't his glamorous wife, Carla Bruni, openly stated that she feels highly attracted by her husband's discretionary power over the nuclear bomb. maybe she just said, "Nicolas, can't you just bring me some other leader's head and bomb some place into pieces? It makes me so, well, hooorrrn...."

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 16:01 | 1087165 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

The main thing to understand about Libya is that it is a muslim country, and an arab one.   No representative republican form of government is on the minds of any of the locals.

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 12:38 | 1086262 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

" because he speaks to a real and powerful dimension of Libya."

That's true, and it's an indictment of the big chunk of Libyan thugs who support him and agree with him.  It could also be said of Benito Mussolini, with respect to Italy, or Adolf Hitler, with respect to 1930s Germans.

The fact that a Big Man can point to retainers doesn't legitimize him or his thuggery. It just tells you that too many people are No Damn Good.

Which we already knew, I think.

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 13:41 | 1086505 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

You have to be kidding. Gaddafi is a bush-league hack compared to Hitler and Mussolini. He's been a dopey and compliant tool of the hidden elite's interests ever since they installed him 40 years ago.

Quoting Stratfor as if what they say represents reality is a foolish waste of time.

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 13:55 | 1086562 lincolnsteffens
lincolnsteffens's picture

Anybody for Genghis Kahn's method? Insult or defy the great Khan and the entire population is slaughtered except for useful women and strong young men bound into slavery. Then you set the Hoard to leveling the city and destroying anything that could be used to re-inhabit the area.

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 11:48 | 1086113 Moric
Moric's picture

No doubt, but I am also a fan of radiohead.

You do it to yourself, you do
And that's what really hurts
Is that you do it to yourself
Just you, you and no one else

 


Tue, 03/22/2011 - 11:52 | 1086122 rufusbird
rufusbird's picture

"Waging war for ideological reasons requires a clear understanding of the ideology...."

Well, where I live, when someone goes crazy and starts killing people they take them out quickly..."

During the uprising I saw video clips every day of his erratic speeches and

threats on Al Jazerra, words of a crazy and powerful dictator. I feel sickend by the hundreds of peoples who lost their lives during the uprising and the recent battles, but I think Gadaffy was asking for it by shooting his mouth off and threatening havoc. When my daughter asked me why the people of Libya are made at Gudaffy I gave her the short versioin..."Does it follow that just because a man is president of a country for 42 years that he should become the richest and most powerful man in the country with over 30 billion dollars of personal wealth? "Do you think he might have been accumulating wealth that didn't really belong to him?" "What did he to do to get it?"

I have heard threats against heads of Wall St. financial instuitions, on these pages, that are more hateful and graphic than any I have heard agains this deranged and deadly dictator Gadaffy.

He is another example of the destructive force of concentrated wealth, just an Eastern version of it.

...Junk away,

 

 

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 12:19 | 1086210 Commander Cody
Commander Cody's picture

And so why do third parties get involved in a civil war, yeah - civil war?  They do it on the pretense of humanitarian assistance but the real reason is that they smell profit.  Plain and simple, as are the actions of the banksters, it is based on greed.  Money is what makes the world go round, not idealistic bullshit.  What was France's motivation for siding with the revolutionaries on our very shores so many years ago?  They saw a way to profit and share the wealth of a new world.  Same thing, different time.  I wasted too much time reading the Stratfor tripe.

And, no I did not junk you.

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 12:28 | 1086229 falak pema
falak pema's picture

You're mixing apples and oranges comparing acrimony against US kleptocrats expressed on ZH with your ire against Q. This ZH steam is legit. in democracy, within the same political family/entity, especially as there is profound feeling of corruption and betrayal felt by Main street (ZH) towards Wall st. W/O any remedial policy/legal action in sight by subservient government.

Not so with Q-daffy who is not elected by US citizens, whose actions as dictator are no different from dozens of others, not in the media. Also, as legal head of nation-state he is inviolable by any action other than that by his own people, (whence the terms of current UN resolution respecting that). Whatever the outrage we may feel at seeing a foreign Mafia boss dressed up as country leader, it's for the people of Libya to decide in the end. The West, on paper, is just acting as temporary guardian of civil rights and eventual facilitator of regime change if the people want it. Apples stay with apples...Oil is not officially on the agenda...but is there in the back ground, as a parameter of the general ME unrest.

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 14:02 | 1086604 rufusbird
rufusbird's picture

I see your point..."You're mixing apples and oranges comparing acrimony against US kleptocrats expressed on ZH with your ire against Q" But was Al Jazeera manipulaing the news by constant live coverage of the revolt in Libya? Are we all just pawns being manipulated by oil interests? to some extent I agree but not completely.

But you must admit that the lines tend to blur a bit considering the Billions that the money center banks have been investing and managing for Q and his Associates...consider the following two articles...can we totally seperate the bankers powers from the wealth they control? Could they have the undue control they have over our banking regulators and congress and our country without with this wealth? It cannot be totally seperated. there is no glass wall.  I doubt that Blankfein asked for the freeze. See the links for the numbers...

"Libya's Billions invested in US Private Equity, Big Banks..."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/01/libya-investment-portfolio-us-b...
,and

"US Banks freeze over 18 Billion Pound of Libyan Assets..."

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Business/US-Banks-Freeze-18bn-Libyan-As...

"The US order comes after the British government announced it too was taking action to freeze Gaddafi's assets in the UK so they could not be used against the interests of the Libyan people.

"These blocking actions by the United States and the UN, UK and EU, serve two very important objectives: depriving Colonel Gaddafi and his government of access to these assets and simultaneously safeguarding them for the Libyan people," said Mr Cohen.

 

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 12:46 | 1086295 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

You will not get junked you did not mention the Jews

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 12:51 | 1086314 msamour
msamour's picture

No need to junk you are correct.

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 13:18 | 1086389 avd
avd's picture

Where did you take these 30 billions of Gaddafi's personal wealth?

The news say just that "United States froze $30 billion in Gaddafi and Libyan Investment Authority (LIA) assets" conveniently omitting the information about how much of these billions are Gaddafi's and how much are Libyan. I would assume the breakdown would be like 0 for Gaddafi and 30 for LIA, otherwise MSM would happilly report the details.

The Germany happen to be more honest with their reporting:

 

The German government ordered a freeze on Thursday on bank accounts in the country held by the Libyan central bank and the Libyan Investment Authority, aiming to cut off potential sources of funding for Muammar Gaddafi.

The economy ministry said the move responded to a European Union decision this week to clamp down on Libyan state banks controlled by Gaddafi and that it also covered the Libya Africa Investment Portfolio and the Libyan Foreign Bank.

"Access to money of the Libyan Central Bank, Libya Africa Investment Portfolio, Libyan Foreign Bank and Libyan Investment authority is forbidden until further notice," said the ministry, adding that the move was taken in coordination with the German foreign and finance ministries and the Bundesbank.

 

Note: 

The Libyan Investment Authority manages $70bn of assets and is rated the 13th largest sovereign wealth fund globally by the Sovereign Wealth Fund Institute.

Neat, yeah? Looting Lybian Goverment money while pretending that it's just personal Gaddafi's money. 

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 14:25 | 1086731 rufusbird
rufusbird's picture

I really like your comment. I tried to find more news reporting on the subject. I don't think much of the US press. Even Hillary Clinton ranked on it in the short clip linked below. I will looking for more coverage on this issue as time passes. It will be very intersting to watch. Now I will be more focused and looking for it. How this asset situation turns out will speak volumes. I hope somebody with huge media exposure jumps on it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvjmCTygW5I&feature=player_embedded


Tue, 03/22/2011 - 14:40 | 1086821 avd
avd's picture

Meanwhile, if you are interested a bit what Lybian Goverment spent money on you could google for a book "The Libyan economy: economic diversification and international repositioning". For instance, read the chapter on housing in Lybia.

 

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 14:48 | 1086859 Highrev
Tue, 03/22/2011 - 14:50 | 1086862 rufusbird
rufusbird's picture

Thanks for the reference. I checked my library system and it is not available. The cheapest copy on Amazon is equal to my food budget for the next two months.

I will have to be content with any reviews I can find.

 

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 15:06 | 1086914 avd
avd's picture

it's available online on google books (partially)

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 15:22 | 1087000 rufusbird
rufusbird's picture

Found it. Very interesting. Lots on Agriculture, but not the housing. Still a good link...

http://books.google.com/books?id=8iw-OlGJsJ8C&pg=PA307&lpg=PA307&dq=The+...

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 16:46 | 1087359 avd
avd's picture

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Manmade_River

 


The Great Man-Made River (GMR????? ??????? ??????) is a network of pipes that supplies water to theSahara Desert in Libya, from the Nubian Sandstone Aquifer System fossil aquifer. It is the world's largest irrigation project.[1]

According to its website, it is the largest underground network of pipes and aqueducts in the world. It consists of more than 1,300 wells, most more than 500 m deep, and supplies 6,500,000 m³ of fresh water per day to the cities of TripoliBenghaziSirt and elsewhere. Muammar al-Gaddafi has described it as the "Eighth Wonder of the World."[2]


The project is owned by the Great Man-Made River Project Authority and funded by the Libyan government. Brown & Rootand Price Brothers were responsible for the original design, and the primary contractor for the first phases was Dong AhConsortium (a South Korean construction company) and present main contractor is Al Nahr Company Ltd. This company was registered in England and Wales as a foreign company FC017848 until July 31, 2003.

The imported goods from several worldwide countries (such as Italy, Spain, Germany, Japan, etc.) destined to the construction of the GMR arrived by sea via the entry port of Marsa al-Brega(Gulf of Sirte).

The total cost of the project is projected at more than US$25 billion. Libya claims to have completed the work to date without the financial support of major countries or loans from world banks. Since 1990 UNESCO has provided training to engineers and technicians involved with the project.

 

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 16:48 | 1087375 avd
avd's picture

4.3 Housing in Lybia page 111

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 11:21 | 1085975 ZackAttack
ZackAttack's picture

If only there was some kind of document that outlined an agreement between the government and the people about when war could be declared, and then maybe even added some mechanism of checks and balances so that one person couldn't commit us unilaterally based on his personal bullshit worldview... if only.

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 13:04 | 1086364 Henry Chinaski
Henry Chinaski's picture

Return to the gold standard of coined money.  It is nearly impossible for people to pay for war if the government can't print unlimited money.  Much more effective than separation of powers, check, balances, etc. 

I think the military brass put Obama up to this Libya operation to guarantee a one-term presidency.  Probably found him coked up and drunk in Rio... "Here ya go Mr. President, just sign off on this little OpOrder and you can get back to the party."

 

 

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 15:20 | 1086989 BigJim
BigJim's picture

That would be just incredible!

It's amazing no one's thought of that before. Top marks ;-)

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 11:19 | 1085976 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

And we have now added "the four tribes" called the Army, Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps.  To that all I have to say is "release the hounds!"  Of course we yet again could be on "the path to discovering" what "grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory" feels like. 

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 11:22 | 1085983 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

When US and French bombing runs start killing innocent civilians...you will see a shift in the tide in Libya as the nation unites against the invading forces.

This has all the makings of yet another endless US military clusterfuck...because, obviously, two is just not enough.

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 11:51 | 1086120 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

When innocent lives get lost? Already happening Alien. Left right and center. One side uses them as human shields and the other as expendable collateral damage.

We need to understand, that in the pathology of power, the serf is a number. Nothing more. A worker, farmer, fighter, producer, payer.....nothing more.

WOmen, children...none of this enters the equation. Else Iraq/Afghanistan/Serbia etc. etc. would never have happened. All rhetoric all the time. Seen th elatest Agghan Trophy photos? Those are the guys that got caught. Enough horror already, the muslim world is seething,a s it should against the senselessly cruel white invader.

The blowback will be equally humongous and just. And it will reach every corner of White society, who has sat in mute approval or complicit omission (sinfully speaking).

Albert Pike's prognostication is coming to fruit and it's a bitter one.

Tragic, heartless and totally un-necessary.

Midas's addiction to the new gold. Black and liquid.

http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2011/03/22/interesting-times-sweet-validations/ORI

 

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 13:28 | 1086424 Green Leader
Green Leader's picture

"...the muslim world is seething,a s it should against the senselessly cruel white invader."

 

ORI,

I see it another way, a cover-up of the Ashkenazi-Edomite Zionists against the Aryans:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klehXw4fIUI

These impostor Jews want to stay on the planet as the 'supreme race', however twisted and whatever that means. Rev. 3:9.

Yours truly, 

 

GL

Environmentalist of the Torah.

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 14:24 | 1086705 Day_Of_The_Tentacle
Day_Of_The_Tentacle's picture

The blowback will be equally humongous and just. And it will reach every corner of White society, who has sat in mute approval or complicit omission (sinfully speaking).

 

Enough horror already, the muslim world is seething,a s it should against the senselessly cruel white invader

 

Dear ORI - That was a bit too slick, if you ask me. Simplify "western" to "white" and add a subtle dimension of racial discrimination. Top it up with "muslim world is seething" and "cruel white invader" - you could have refined your statement further with "crusader" instead of "invader", and more clearly drawn a religious front-line, than what you already did. Both of which is there, but only part of the truth.

I absolutely follow your resentment of past and present violations carried out by those who are so intoxicated with power and the mere possibility of exercising coecion towards other human beings. And I agree that among those imperialistic butt-heads you will find many western governments. I hate it, and I am literally grieving that they have initiated another round of meddling with Libya. 

I am really worried that it will prove to be another disaster, that will continue to divide the people in this world, who try to take each other at face value and build from there, without listening to the dispute sowing pawns shouting from the lamp posts.

You say the blow-back will be just. I say - undestandable maybe - but it be just as unjust as the reasons for building the tensions in the first place.

You say the blow-back will come to every corner of "White society, who has sat in mute approval or complicit omission".

Well sadly, I fear that you may be proven right some day, but by adding an undercurrent of rightful justification, because of the "mute approval and complicit omission", you commit the same injustice as western ignoramuses do, when they blame every muslim man and woman for the crimes committed by islamist imperialists.

Focus the anger on those, who are actually calling the sick shots and misusing their mandates, instead of insinuating that the every day people in the west has anymore real day to day power than the every day people in the rest of the world. We can be sure that they will apply enough "divide and conquer" rubbish for everyone to navigate safely through.

I have liked you posts previously, and I think that you are better than this.

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 17:21 | 1087493 Green Leader
Green Leader's picture

"I have liked you posts previously, and I think that you are better than this."

Raíces de amargura...and a healing job for the Ruaj ha Kodesh.

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 12:46 | 1086302 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

It's all about spending lot's of money

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 11:23 | 1085996 Doctor sahab
Doctor sahab's picture

Re establish the Caliphate bitchez!

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 11:26 | 1086010 Cocomaan
Cocomaan's picture

Wow, usually I am pretty critical of Stratfor, but that was excellently written and very compelling.

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 11:30 | 1086032 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Stratfor is great.

The nuttiest thing out of the Libyan mess is the UN authority for military intervention. Since when? Is the UN running NATO now? I know it's just cover, but it's a very bad precedent.

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 11:41 | 1086087 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Didn't you get the memo?

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 12:03 | 1086167 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Oops. Anything tagged "UN" goes to spam. My bad.

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 12:31 | 1086246 jesse livermoore
jesse livermoore's picture

USA  runs   ...>>>   UN  .....USA runs ...>>>NATO.....USA runs  ...>>>IMF

Any Questions?

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 12:50 | 1086309 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

I think you got those the wrong way round

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 20:40 | 1088087 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

It's one big circle-jerk anyways AbitD, round and round.

ORI

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 11:34 | 1086058 InconvenientCou...
InconvenientCounterParty's picture

the "narrative of democracy" is neither.

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 11:46 | 1086106 Doode
Doode's picture

The report is right on the money. Great article!

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 11:55 | 1086138 Yardfarmer
Yardfarmer's picture

Friedman's assumptions are, as usual, largely flawed especially when he assumes quite wrongly that the "uprisings" throughout the Middle East and North Africa are spontaneous expressions of democratic movements. Nothing could be further from the truth. A good antidote to his type of conventional and banal analysis is Webster Tarpley's which provides a much more penetrating exposé of an infinitely more complex and original historical context revealing the geopolitical maneuverings which underlie the mainstream propaganda which Friedman's dependence on military and government intelligence faithfully and constantly echoes while pretending objectivity. http://tarpley.net/2011/03/15/behind-the-2011-orgy-of-destabilizations/

Tue, 03/22/2011 - 12:06 | 1086174 Doode
Doode's picture

Definitly CIA was involved. Assuming their operation was worldwide it might actually explain the North Korean seemingly crazy attack on South Korea AND a subsequent lack of any response from South Korea except for loud speakers broadcast over the border. North is a very close society so any new antagonists would be picked up right away unlike the everpresent chaos in Middle East. Maybe North discovered subversive forces sent by the South and gave the response back. The timeframe certainly makes sense. Just a theory.

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