Summarizing 2010 ETF Outflows

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Thu, 09/16/2010 - 11:51 | 585435 Pladizow
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With the rise of ETF's the markets are likely to see more volitility.

When you want to sell a mutual fund you have to wait for the close at the end of the day.

When you want to sell your ETF, you click your mouse.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 11:57 | 585450 PlausibleDenial
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True, but doesn't having the ability to mitigate losses by clicking that mouse have greater utility than being subject to just sitting and watching a continued loss in the standard mutual fund that you wanted or needed to sell?

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 12:00 | 585454 hedgeless_horseman
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Mutual funds were not intended for trading, unless of course you were one of the select customers of Janus Funds.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 11:54 | 585443 ebworthen
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And they thought there was no moral hazard involved in the bailouts, TARP, TALF, Fannie/Freddie, etc., etc.

I find it humurous to watch the mutual fund managers repeating their hackneyed lines about investor "fear" of the markets and the "need" for them to invest in domestic equities.  It isn't fear you clueless bastards, it's ANGER.

I'd rather lose $20 than make $20 being humiliated on stage at the magic act then robbed of my $20 in the back alley on the way home by Uncle Sam and his boys.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 14:28 | 585892 buzlightening
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hehehehehehe! Funny analogy ifin you're not the one getting gang banged in the back alley by DONK! dodd/frank finreg!!  That's the real joke to choke on!!  Get as far away from US paper goonzi ASSets as possible!!  You believe these goons are here to assist the people, then you may as well jump into the turning blades of a meat grinder to see how your financial future feels!

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 11:58 | 585446 hedgeless_horseman
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Nice on-point analysis, TD.  I would like to see a similiar  review article correlating this with the pension numbers. What was it?  Something like unfunded pension liabilities increased by $100,000,000,000 in the last reported MONTH, alone.  Leo?  Spit out your ouzo and get to work.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 12:00 | 585453 RockyRacoon
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It shouldn't be assumed that the outflow is still good money.  When asset destruction is taken into consideration, and funds are spent on daily necessities, when funds are spent on paying down credit card and student debt, and when funds are converted to PMs, the money does not end up "on the sidelines".  But CNBC will spin it that way.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 12:00 | 585458 mephisto
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Wonderful analysis, many thx. This is how to add a vertical dimension to any discussion of 'sector rotation' turning it into 'circling the drain'.


Thu, 09/16/2010 - 12:01 | 585460 RobotTrader
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Outflows from stocks cannot last forever.

It is amazing that the market has stayed up here despite retail investors selling in droves.

Part of the reason for the strength in stocks today is the outright collapse in gasoline prices the last few months.

It is a huge tax cut for consumers.

That is why they are buying $125 workout outfits.


Thu, 09/16/2010 - 12:04 | 585473 HarryWanger
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Not to mention any iGadget put out by Mr. Jobs.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 12:07 | 585478 reading
reading's picture

Don't make the mistake o thinking that just because their stock is going up that anyone is buying any of their shit...remember  that stock went up too, until it didn't...

Same double top on UA as yesterday...but we know you don't trade it anyway, you just post it for fun.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 12:12 | 585487 RockyRacoon
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It is amazing that the market has stayed up here despite retail investors selling in droves.

"Amazing"?  Not really.  I find it humorous that you are surprised or amazed.  If you understood the mechanics of the phenomenon you would not be in awe.  Posting the most ramped up chart you can find is not research.  Embellishing the comment with pictures of babes only adds to the diversion.  (But I do like the sporty tie-in to the theme of your comment...)

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:23 | 585690 Eternal Student
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What chart?

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 14:58 | 585951 RockyRacoon
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Oh!  You got me there.  Gawrsh durn it.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 12:22 | 585506 reading
reading's picture

And on those gas prices:


8/30 9/6 9/13 Chg 1 wk chg 1 year

2.68 2.682 2.721 .039 .144

The only areas showing a YOY drop in prices is the left coast of -.064c

In case you need to see it in pictures:

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 12:25 | 585526 RobotTrader
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Prices in my neighborhood have been crushed under $3.00/gal.

I haven't paid that in over 2 years.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 12:32 | 585547 reading
reading's picture

As I said, the west coast did see a YOY decrease, however it was the only area.  California's YOY decrease was greater than the west coast in general.  My point is you made a blanket statement about a "collapse" in gas prices is a tax cut to the consumer -- You might see a drop (a collapse is what we saw from 09/08 to 11/08) in gas prices in LA but it is not happening everywhere and therefore your statement is without factual merit.

I know you like pictures so here is the chart link:

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 12:35 | 585552 Trifecta Man
Trifecta Man's picture

Keep Americans jobless and they will use up those stock investments for food and energy over time.  I think you need to think a little further out in time.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 12:54 | 585595 Dollar Bill Hiccup
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Does the outfit come w/ the ball?

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 18:14 | 586507 VWbug
VWbug's picture

so if the point is that all retail players have left or are leaving the market quickly, that means all the weak hands are out?

pretty bullish contrary indicator.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 12:08 | 585482 TWORIVER
TWORIVER's picture

How much money was in short oriented ETF's? Thanks.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 12:15 | 585501 RockyRacoon
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Is that rhetorical to point up how money is flowing, or is that a request that we do your homework for you?

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 12:25 | 585524 TWORIVER
TWORIVER's picture

Respectfully, both. sometimes no reply is better than a negative one.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 12:28 | 585536 RockyRacoon
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Ok, in that case I'll fall on the rhetorical aspect.

I just don't think that someone giving you an arbitrary number would be helpful in your decision making.  One's own research is always the best.  Some old axiom comes to mind about due diligence.  Good luck.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 12:33 | 585549 TWORIVER
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True, I see a category for Leveraged/Inverse, but not for Leveraged/Long. Whats you take.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 12:41 | 585566 RockyRacoon
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Someone else will have to run with that ball.  I do not short anything nor use ETFs, nor do I trade in forex or the paper metal markets.    I'm what you might call a purist.  Leverage is what got us here.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 12:15 | 585500 frugalman
frugalman's picture

I own 1,200 shares of SH (S&P 500 short the index).  I wonder what category this ETF falls in among those listed..

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 12:17 | 585505 RockyRacoon
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If you don't know, should you be there?  Just askin'.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 12:30 | 585543 TWORIVER
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I assume, yikes, that it falls under leveraged/inverse. There is no category for leveraged/long.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 12:50 | 585585 wiskeyrunner
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Make no diffrence wehn you have the magic index futures. Gap them open Sunday night get them up till Monday morning cash open.....Presto! the index is up with no money. then just let it flat line for the rest of the week, SPY has been in a 10 point range for the past three days.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:04 | 585619 Ploutos
Ploutos's picture

What of the 55 Billion in stock buybacks by the S&P500 companies in the first quarter of 2010 and the estimated 60 Billion in the second quarter.  Might that add a little upside to the market ?

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:11 | 585644 Bankster T Cubed
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v. how much issuance?

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:15 | 585646 Robslob
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Just because they announce a buyback doesn't mean they have to actually DO the buyback right...

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:30 | 585713 Ploutos
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55 Billion was completed in the first quarter, not announced

not sure on the issuance, can't find that data


Thu, 09/16/2010 - 15:58 | 586097 prophet
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Fine Bitchez


Thu, 10/07/2010 - 05:53 | 631603 Herry12
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I found lots of interesting information here. I love zerohedge.
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