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A Tale Of Outright Fraud From An Ex-Member Of Citi's Corporate Derivatives Team

Tyler Durden's picture


Zero Hedge has long claimed that the best stories of Wall Street fraud and corruption come from disenchanted former insiders of the very firms that in 2010 were paid a record $135 billion in compensation. And while we spend day after day chronicling what to other more normal banana republics would seem to be unprecedented criminal activity south of Canal street (and let's not forget the Park Ave corridor), we are always delighted when an ex-insider discovers their conscience and discloses all the massive fraud they and their coworkers engaged in "once upon a time" especially on Over the Counter desks - the same place where firms such as Goldman Sachs dominate all trading. Today's story from Omar Rosen on Citigroup's corporate derivatives team is just such a blatant example. If America had anything even remotely resembling a fair and honest enforcement arm in its regulatory body, this disclosure would be enough to shut down the entire Citigroup derivatives team. As it stands, the firm will probably not even have to pay a fine, without either having to admit or denying guilt.

From Omar Rosen, via The Boston Review


In the spring of 2000, I began a three-year stint on Citigroup’s corporate-derivatives team. I was just months past my twentieth birthday, with no work experience to speak of, in a world beyond my imagination. As my boss summed me up after a day of interviews, I was “fucking unpolished.”

The credit-derivatives group, then just three or four people I sat next to, soon spawned an ever-expanding team managing ever-more complex creations: credit-default swaps, collateralized debt obligations, and the myriad other structures built with black boxes and shrouded by acronyms. Meanwhile, my group continued to peddle mostly the forbears of these recent menaces, the more mundane interest-rate swaps and Treasury-rate locks. The newer derivatives, though hardly identical to their predecessors, nonetheless evolved in similar environments, were likewise designed to manipulate risk, and were also customized on a trade-by-trade basis.

Our clients were non-financial corporations, the Deltas and Verizons of the world, which relied on us for advice and education. Our directive was “to help companies decrease and manage their risks.” Often we did just that. And often we advised clients to execute trades solely because they presented opportunities for us to profit. In either case, whenever possible we used our superior knowledge to manipulate the pricing of the trade in our favor.

I never heard this arrangement described as a conflict of interest. I learned to think we were simply smarter than the client. For unsophisticated clients, being smarter meant quoting padded rates. For the rest, a bit of “legerdemath” was required. Most brazenly, we taught clients phony math that involved settling Treasury-rate locks by referencing Treasury yields rather than prices.

If a client requested verification of our pricing, we volunteered to fax a time-stamped printout of market data from when the trade was executed. One person talked to the client on the phone while another stood by the computer and repeatedly hit print. The printouts were sorted, and the one showing the most profitable rate for the bank was faxed to the client, regardless of which rate was actually transacted. If a rate for the client’s specific trade was not on the printout, we might create rigged conversion spreadsheets for them to use in conjunction with the printout.

Other sources of profit lay in details that clients thought were merely procedural but in actuality affected pricing as well. Once, a client called after his interest-rate swap was completed and asked to change a method of counting days. Unbeknownst to him, this change should have lowered his rate. I made the requested change but kept his rate the same, allowing us to realize unwarranted profit. This was standard practice. My coworkers knew what I had done, as did the traders, as did the people who booked trades. I even tallied the “restructuring” as an achievement in a letter angling for a higher bonus.

When the media discuss a lack of transparency in the pricing of over-the-counter derivatives, they suggest a murky world, where things happen in shadows. This imagery is poorly chosen. “Things” don’t happen in the dark, but in well-lit trading floors like ours. Engaging in these practices was just part of our day-to-day activities, as natural as picking up one’s dry-cleaning. After all, in an open room three-quarters of the size of a football field, with hundreds of people working and mingling, how could anything be wrong?

Last year a friend in the credit-card division of one of the major banks told me that his group had received an award. “Great news,” I thought. He then explained that the group had managed to increase the rates charged on the bank’s entire portfolio of credit cards before regulation limiting such increases took effect. Does this sound like an industry that is learning?

And if Citi was doing it, you can bet that Goldman, JPM, Morgan Stanley, Merrill Lynch, UBS, Credit Suisse, Bank of America, and everyone else was doing it... all in the "privacy" of their own prop/flow trader-commingled, football field-sized trading floors.


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Wed, 02/02/2011 - 19:55 | 929225 Salinger
Salinger's picture

obviously a disgruntled and bitter ex employee trying to make his former employer look bad

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:05 | 929250 newworldorder
newworldorder's picture

He will be "redflaged" for future hiring in the industry.

His bonus may be subject to a claw back by the regulator.

He will be used as a not best practices indicator in future banker training films.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:08 | 929265 Malcolm Tucker
Malcolm Tucker's picture

You're not going to believe this...and I mean that !

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:15 | 929300 gorillaonyourback
gorillaonyourback's picture

yeah little fucked up, but im not surprised, would love to see the explanation of who in the nsa did that.  maybe harry or hamy did it they sound a bit illightened.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:29 | 929344 TheMerryPrankster
TheMerryPrankster's picture

Google is your friend if you know what to ask.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 21:47 | 929552 snowball777
snowball777's picture

John Fenley 

Registered through:, Inc. (

Domain servers in listed order: 

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 23:44 | 929882 Quadlet
Quadlet's picture

This guy looks like a good candidate for our next assassin...

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 22:14 | 929642 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

Yes, I love the NSA with their "threat fusion centers".  This is what I leave at the bottom of all my e-mails for the little bastards:

Any NSA, government employee or contractor reading this e-mail must decide which side of history he or she wishes to be on.  Do you want your ancestors to know that when tyranny came to America you were part of it?!  I think not!  Please reconsider what you are doing.  Please read the Bill of Rights and understand that what you are doing is unconstitutional, illegal and treasonous!  Tuco
Thu, 02/03/2011 - 06:57 | 930349 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

Work of Genius ;)

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:08 | 929266 Raymond K Hassel
Raymond K Hassel's picture

which he surely knew beforehand, and did it anyway - let us not forget to let self-sacrifice go uncomplimented.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:15 | 929305 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Citicorp is one of the most corrupt companies in the world along with The Goldman Sack, The JP Morgue, General Elctric and other Obama companies.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:52 | 929409 Mad Mad Woman
Mad Mad Woman's picture

"Obama companies?"  These companies were corrupt way before Obama came on the scene. WTF you talking about?

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:55 | 929417 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Robert Rubin.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 21:03 | 929446 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

rubin it in our face

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 21:47 | 929553 nmewn
nmewn's picture

If I wasn't so pissed I'd LOL ;-)

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 21:55 | 929567 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

You Mean:
Robert "What Me Worry About My Massive Insider Trading at Citi" Rubin?

Rubin... The Idiot Oligarch who always <FAILS> upward?
Rubin... The Wall Street Democrat's version of Shrub Bush Junior?
Rubin... The Stupidest Fucker in the room at any board meeting?
Rubin... The ass wipe that makes Timmay Jeethner look smart?

That Rube Rubin?
He'll bat Lead-off on Bastille Day...

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 22:09 | 929618 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

For Rubin the bad penny may be made of Tungsten:

And check out The Bernanke slideshow in the link.  Fascinating photos and good fodder perhaps for WB7

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 21:52 | 929563 Devout Republican
Devout Republican's picture

I often wonder how some people could have voted to have Sarah Palin a heartbeat away from the presidency.  Now I think I've got it!  It's the stupid!

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 23:57 | 929929 Attitude_Check
Attitude_Check's picture

As opposed to the present resident of Oval office?  At least she was one heart-beat away!

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 22:24 | 929677 Coldfire
Coldfire's picture


Thu, 02/03/2011 - 06:02 | 930311 asteroids
asteroids's picture

Money costs 0% and how much is your credit card rate?

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:24 | 929331 BRAVO 7
BRAVO 7's picture

"if" america had a regulator...

"if" my aunt would have had testicles, she would have been my uncle

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 21:17 | 929484 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

and start a blog with an actor's avatar???

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 21:50 | 929559 Thorny Xi
Thorny Xi's picture

I've been reading Zh since it was on blogger.  As everyone here knows, it's a great site.  I often forward page links to others to read becasue of this, but lately, the quality of the comments is making the articles above them look like a joke.


Tyler - can't you mirror the site on a domain like "" - which was available before I sent this - so that readers can share your work without the neverending __fill in the blank__, bitchez, or worse.  It was funny when Chumba started it, I grant that, but you're publishing some good stuff and the lack of comment moderation really kills the impact.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 22:02 | 929594 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

Nobody MAKES You Read the Comments
If you don't like the comments... Just read the posts and move on...

Funny Thing About The 1st Amendment
It means you have to defend the speech of people you disagree with, not just your own speech...

Otherwise, you are just a reactionary hiding behind the 1st Amendment...

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 23:19 | 929809 Alienated Serf
Alienated Serf's picture

1st amendment applies only to government regulation of free speech, tyler can do whatever he wants.  i don't think there should be much moderation, but there really has been a proliferation of racist insanity lately.  it isn't constructive or helpful and really turns of new readers and hurts the cred of the site.  in all seriousness, i really think it is paid trolls by the banks and for all i know DHS, who are posting the worst stuff in a discredit campaign.  i do like the rawness of the site, but could live without some of the supremacist shit.  i also think the level of wit has drastically dropped and that a lot of the commenters from the early days are gone.

if anyone has a well thought out post with facts about one group or another doing harm, fine.  but "its all those damn inner city monkeys," etc. does not add much.

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 00:43 | 930051 hbjork1
hbjork1's picture


 Well said Serf.  Too many postings have gotten so off topic silly they aren't worth comment.

Thanks for your post!

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 13:48 | 931426 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

"in all seriousness, i really think it is paid trolls by the banks and for all i know DHS, who are posting the worst stuff in a discredit campaign. "

I Absolutely Agree With That Analysis
In fact, I emailed Tyler via abuse to point out the rampant racism in the Sarkozy-Dimon post. I pointed out the same thing... paid provocateurs.

"1st amendment applies only to government regulation of free speech, tyler can do whatever he wants."

And Tyler does do what he wants... He seems to defend the speech of others...

You Either Support Free Speech Or You Don't
Which means you have to support speech of those you don't like or disagree with as well as your own. While the 1st Amendment addresses Congress's ability to:

"Congress shall make no law...  prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech..."

The citizen either supports the 1st Amendment and it's principals in public life or the citizen does not.

I Was Responding Specifically To Thorny Xi's:

"But lately, the quality of the comments is making the articles above them look like a joke...

Tyler - can't you mirror the site on a domain like "" - which was available before I sent this - so that readers can share your work without the neverending __fill in the blank__, bitchez, or worse. "

This is clearly "I don't like the opinion of others can't we get rid of it."
Tracking down the IPs of suspicious racist commenters and showing they are emanating from corporate, banking or government IPs thus showing the likelihood of paid propagandists and provocateurs before banning is one thing...

Ban people because they use "bitchez" and "ass" clearly I don't like those opinions, can't we get rid of them...

Well then I might suggest the Huffington Post... where only "tasteful" parlor humor is allowed...

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 18:56 | 932847 Alienated Serf
Alienated Serf's picture

We are on the same page PI.  cheers.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 22:41 | 929720 Salinger
Salinger's picture

Marla is missed - but the influx of troll like posting automatons who don't have an original  thought or idea is frustrating - the racists and pseudo supremacists are that much more disturbing but I think those who have been here from the blogger days understand just how good ZH is - there's probably someone out there who could scrape the site and do as you have suggested  - rss does it as well but the comment section often has some great stuff in it  if you can sift through the garbage - I was actually serious that perhaps a Yahoo board had closed down and its inmates ended up here

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 22:53 | 929753 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

make it so commentors are members only - 1oz of gold per year fee

or just create your own blog and moderate the comments..



Thu, 02/03/2011 - 13:45 | 931470 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

An "I agree to no racist comments" clause when you are allowed a ZH account under penalty of lost privileges would be reasonable.

However, you really can't regulate ignorance or humor or we wouldn't have any fellow Amerikans...

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 00:10 | 929980 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

I send ZH articles out to quite a few people.   Here is a very nice app to get that done:

It reduces the web page to the content of the article only, no ads, no comments, easy reading text.  The app sits on my Firefox toolbar.  Just click it and the page loads.  Then just right click and copy the entire page for pasting to an email.  It's quite easy, clean, and doesn't look too slick for reading by the recipient.   Makes some of the weirder stuff more palatable!   Try it out.



Thu, 02/03/2011 - 05:10 | 930289 Moonrajah
Moonrajah's picture

His name was Omar Rosen...

His name was Omar Rosen...

His name was Omar Rosen...


Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:05 | 929252 Raymond K Hassel
Raymond K Hassel's picture

apparently from the junks, sarcasm is not universally appreciated anymore.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 21:08 | 929463 Salinger
Salinger's picture

sadly some (too many)  ZH posters  have graduated  from the yahoo boards (as in no child left behind) and ended up here - might I suggest they try instead, that Henry Blodget is one smart guy and he repsonds to just about every post


As tempted as I have been, I  for one will not leave ZH and be crowded out by these half witted camel riding tards who ride into ZH with one finger on the junk button and another finger up their bitchezzz ass - ZH is too good and deserves much better than the inane babble of a group of pimply faced punks or bitter old men sitting in their basements - (now if I could only get the captcha question I could post this



Wed, 02/02/2011 - 22:16 | 929653 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

Perhaps a sarcasm font like a reverse italics instead of the strikethrough that doesn't work which if it did work would provide clearer sarcasm communication...

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 05:26 | 930293 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Way too many of the visiting tools are either too young or to brain damaged to understand sarcasm.

Or so I have been told.

And I would also venture a guess that the majority of them would be hard pressed to ride a camel, or probably anything more lively than a bus.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 21:26 | 929271 mouser98
mouser98's picture

two people here do not understand the word sarcasm

*edit*  at least 8 people do not understand the word sarcasm, and at least one is pissed when someone points it out.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 22:08 | 929617 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Good sarcasm Salinger ;-)

You may need to label it as such though...

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 22:50 | 929743 Confused
Confused's picture

I junked you sir. 


I'm hoping I missed your sarcasm. But judging from your collection of junk I'd venture to guess I'm wrong. 


Why would it matter even if this person was "bitter." If he is telling the truth, regardless of his employment situation, they need to be held accountable. 

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 23:39 | 929868 Salinger
Salinger's picture

Confused, to rely on the junk meter to determine the nature of a comment would be like relying on Rosie to determine where the S&P is headed.  Free yourself from the crowd mentality, epsecially the crowd that seems to be infesting ZH of late (you have noticed that the comment section of ZH has in many instances gone into the crapper).  And just so you know, I was not being sarcastic, CITI is a great company and if they had balls they'd go after that employee and sue him for slander and libel.


Wed, 02/02/2011 - 19:59 | 929234 onlooker
onlooker's picture

and used car salesmen get a bad rap.

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 01:50 | 930151 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

yeah, but they bought cars from Richard Nixon!

Salinger, 18 junks, and counting, is FABULOUS!

i got as far as the words:  Canal Street, and so many pi-ratical synapses fired that all i could think of was my main man, doug clark, formerly of the hot nuts, now departed, who put it this way, more or less:

Walking down canal street
Knock on every door
Goddamn son of a bitch
I couldn't find a whore

I finally found a whore
She was rather thin
Goddamn son of a bitch
I couldn't get it in

I finally got it in
Worked it all about
Goddamn son of a bitch
I couldn't get it out

I finally got it out
It was wet and sore
The moral of this story is
To never fuck a whore

Two weeks later
I tried to take a piss
Goddamn son of a bitch
She gave me syphilis!

R.I.P., doug...

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:01 | 929238 janchup
janchup's picture

These days it will be ignored. What rule of law?

(can't wait for 2012)

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 22:12 | 929632 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

2012 as in the World Ends or we pretend that elections matter?

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:02 | 929243 Logans_Run
Logans_Run's picture

Fraud bitchez!

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:03 | 929248 Raymond K Hassel
Raymond K Hassel's picture


Thank you Omar for your courage

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:03 | 929249 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"Other sources of profit lay in details that clients thought were merely procedural but in actuality affected pricing as well. Once, a client called after his interest-rate swap was completed and asked to change a method of counting days. Unbeknownst to him, this change should have lowered his rate. I made the requested change but kept his rate the same, allowing us to realize unwarranted profit. This was standard practice. My coworkers knew what I had done, as did the traders, as did the people who booked trades. I even tallied the “restructuring” as an achievement in a letter angling for a higher bonus."

I could just scream.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:15 | 929304 francis_the_won...
francis_the_wonder_hamster's picture

Well, if it is any consolation, I recently received bids from several financial firms for an OTC equity-linked derivative trade.  Citi's pricing was so far from competitive it wasn't even funny.  Apparently, their cost of capital was a bit higher.....some poetic justice?

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:36 | 929362 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I think so...the bigger fish always eat the little ones.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 21:09 | 929458 Mercury
Mercury's picture

I don't know's not like widows and orphans play the swaps markets.  These are (should be) big boys here. If you can't figure out the basic components that determine the pricing of the securities you're trading you A) suck at your job B) will certainly get your eyeballs ripped out in a manner very similar to that described above and C) are being negligent if you are a fiduciary.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 21:43 | 929540 rosiescenario
rosiescenario's picture could they be so totally naive to think that they would be just given a good deal???? They at the least should have gotten multiple quotes and compared them...

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 21:51 | 929560 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I'm goin with "C"...not the of your choices.

If it isn't comin outta their pocket they don't really care...we've seen that enough over the last 10 years to make that a viable probability.


Wed, 02/02/2011 - 22:13 | 929640 francis_the_won...
francis_the_wonder_hamster's picture

I partially agree with the A,B, and C above, as anyone playing the derivative game should be smart enough to get competitive bids.  However, in some instances, an investor (institutional or individual) will have assets at a firm already or a relationship built over the years.  Moving those assets, or developing new relationships is easier said than done (and frequently a pain in the a$$).  This is when the trading desks can fleece their clients most easily.

I've actually been on the Citi trading floor described in the article above, and it is quite large (although UBS' facility in Stamford CT dwarfs all trading floors....or at least it did a few years ago).  Citi's is a cubicle layout, with each row seemingly assigned to a certain task.  I remember the bond traders having the best seats (closest to the door) with the structured traders stuck somewhere in the middle.  There was only one wall that had a window and the view wasn't much.  The overall feel there was one of organized chaos, and it wasn't anywhere nearly as professional as one would hope for a place that moved such large amounts of money.  Those structured traders were the ones who created the wonderful "market linked deposits" that brokers have been selling to our parents for the past 5-6 years as CD alternatives.  They are also the #1 source of NASD arbitration cases now that the ARS suits have been mostly settled.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 23:25 | 929822 Mercury
Mercury's picture

I certainly wouldn't recommend this little maneuver to someone who hopes to do future business with the client in question.  I've seen relationships sour over smaller potatoes.

If it makes everyone feel better I once saw a grizzled vet at a Big Deal Bond House mark a treasury (the reference security to which the corp bond he was selling was spread to) the wrong way to a client.  He had intended to build in a little extra for himself but somehow got flummoxed with the whole price/yield/spread thing.  A decent amount of money but not the kind of thing you can go back and correct!

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 22:19 | 929647 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture


Mercury - Does the moral hazard escape the grasp?

Verizon and Delta:  bought by pension and mutual funds, retirement funds, investment "advisers", municipalities, charitable trusts, and directly or indirectly bought by individuals in the U.S. and abroad, and then manipulated by Citi.

Therefore; Mom and Dad, Grandma and Grandpa, Aunts and Uncles, Widows and Orphans all lose money, can't retire, can't pay health bills, help with college fund, pay the mortgage, bills, insurance, car, taxes, etc., etc.

You have to break a sweat rationalizing to not see that this activity tears down the entire society.


Wed, 02/02/2011 - 23:07 | 929780 Mercury
Mercury's picture

Yeah well all those pension funds hire professional money managers who would be the fiduciaries in my above example.  Sloppy trade/deal execution, even if it's not immediately obvious gets baked into management performance numbers which the pension administrators (also fiduciaries) should be watching like a hawk.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:06 | 929255 Common_Cents22
Common_Cents22's picture


Why oh why are the Delta's of the world still doing business with crooks?   The ultimate payback to the crime is the sheep wise up and none of them shows up to be fleeced.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 22:22 | 929671 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Everyone gets a fee, commission, kickback, bonus, bribe, campaign contribution, etc.; except the individual citizen going to work, paying bills and taxes, trying to do the right thing.

Sooner or later the endgame is the Fall of Rome but for now the parasitization continues and the house of cards gets taller.

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 05:30 | 930296 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Why oh why are the Delta's of the world still doing business with crooks?

And even more curious, how the hell is Delta still in business anyway?

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 10:08 | 930594 RKDS
RKDS's picture

I imagine it would be quite easy to stay in business if you stopped paying for stuff anytime it was inconvenient and then had Mommy Government and the taxpayer to bail you out.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:05 | 929257 Hedge Jobs
Hedge Jobs's picture

"Standard Practice" Bitchez

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:15 | 929303 Rainman
Rainman's picture

....yes, skimming the vig is the backbone of all well organized crime activity since the beginnings of fiat.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:07 | 929260 surfersd
surfersd's picture

Is anyone making a market on how long it is before Omar has an unfortunate 'accident'?

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 05:32 | 930297 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

The only way Omar might be in danger is if there was actually somebody doing something about his revelations. Otherwise it's just another hopeless scream in the mayhem of Financial Hell.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:08 | 929267 lynnybee
lynnybee's picture

I wish there's be an expose' article about my favorite bankster-to-hate, ROBERT RUBIN !

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:15 | 929298 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

i wish he was just hung high from a bridge, dangling, for all to see

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 22:03 | 929599 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

"Blondie, make sure the rope is tight!  It has to hold the weight of a pig!"

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 21:54 | 929570 snowball777
snowball777's picture

We all understand Rubin's an asshole, but you, in particular, seem to have a little birdy hard-on for the slimeball? Is it personal with you? Did he steal your cracker? 

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 23:09 | 929782 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I've got a screamin hard on for him as well...I just need for someone to hold him down for me...and I'm not gettin much help.

That's the issue.


Metaphorically speaking of course...not that there's anything wrong with that ;-) 

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:42 | 929277 Jump The Shark
Jump The Shark's picture

Whats Next

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:12 | 929284 Muir
Muir's picture

"In the spring of 2000, I began a three-year stint on Citigroup’s corporate-derivatives team. I was just months past my twentieth birthday, with no work experience to speak of, in a world beyond my imagination."



Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:19 | 929321 Rainman
Rainman's picture this a great country or what bigguns ??

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 21:03 | 929440 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Thank you...I was losing my balance ;-)

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 23:07 | 929781 Muir
Muir's picture

welcome, as always.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:12 | 929285 Buttcathead
Buttcathead's picture

What ???  Like this is news...  OMFG it's S.O.P. 

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:45 | 929393 cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

exacto-knife, Buttcat..... not to mention Year 2000 (to '03?) WTF? Why don't you find some guy who worked 2006-07? BUT...ya know what? This little prick has probably already signed a book deal & has his agent working on the screenplay. Holy shit. AGAIN: where's the beef?

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:14 | 929292 New Revolution
New Revolution's picture

We'll need to build a new jail for the 'new' and 'special' inmates after the New American Revolution.   Just the leaders, but all the leaders.   Something they can't walk away from and only family members can they see.    Kind of like the Federal Prison at Yankton, but with real fences, so they can't break out, or be broken out.   Maybe something like Oxford Wi., with a floor for everyone to clean everyday.   Someplace where they can rot for a few years... or more.... and once the window for their mayhem has passed, maybe let them out,... on probation.   Forfeiture of their wealth.   No drinking or drugs.   No travel outside the state of their residence.   And no leaving America.   Ankle braclets all round.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:17 | 929312 gorillaonyourback
gorillaonyourback's picture

gotta get to critical mass, until then its just a dream

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 23:38 | 929859 prophet_banker
prophet_banker's picture

we don't need to build anything, the dept. of homeland security already built detention centers for millions, we'll just have the military use those when they round up all the members of the criminal mafia crime syndicate

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:17 | 929308 Withdrawn Sanction
Withdrawn Sanction's picture

Funny how when you reward a given practice, you get more of it.  And the more you reward it ($135B indeed), the more of it you get.

That's some high-priced fraud ya got there, Mr. Pandit  (rhymes w/Bandit, dont it)

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 22:32 | 929696 Coldfire
Coldfire's picture

Indeed, Vikram Pandit is the Original Bangalore Bandit(tm). Count your fingers and toes before you leave Citicorpse's door...

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:18 | 929315 papaswamp
papaswamp's picture

Nothing will come of it...the cable is still on, superbowl (games at the colosseum) are next week,  and fast food is still flowing...the sheeple are placated. 

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:27 | 929339 Rainman
Rainman's picture

...but the price of chips and beer are skyrocketing. Soon there will be riots.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:23 | 929328 razorthin
razorthin's picture

hearsay and conjecture! (sarcasm)

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:24 | 929334 Bob
Bob's picture

Now we're talkin'. 

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:33 | 929357 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Omar better stay on the balls of feet while crossing streets!

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:34 | 929359 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Just as happened with Liar's Poker, many young folks reading that are thinking:  "I want in on that action!!!"

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:39 | 929376 chet
chet's picture

The arbitrary enforcement of the rule of law is what is really destroying America. 

Financial blowups, voter fraud, VPs ordering torture, people lining their pockets, malfeasance of all kinds can be handled within the system, IF the law is enforced.

What is completely dispiriting is the spectacle of the Justice Department, the politicians, the SEC, FDIC, CFTC, and a hundred others just shrugging their shoulders and saying "what are you gonna do?"

The proper response in 2008/09 could have us on a completely 180 degree track from what we're on right now. 

Instead, we've codified a world where people who go to work in one industry get to become ungodly rich by taking advantage of everyone else.  And when their collective crimes blow up the system, they get made whole, face no sanctions, and go back to work to do it again.

How can the republic possibly survive this status quo?  There is no way.  Income disparities of this size led to the French Revolution.  It's not something that can just be left to fester.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:45 | 929392 mouser98
mouser98's picture

sorta exposes who actually owns those that do the codifyin' and regulatin', don't it?

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 21:47 | 929555 rosiescenario
rosiescenario's picture

...Citi got their credit card rates changed before new laws were past...

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:43 | 929385 william the bastard
william the bastard's picture

Sounds like "Toyota of Hollywood" service department. What's new? Assholes are rich on the long con, no one's in jail. SOS.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:49 | 929402 Bob
Bob's picture

OT: The Senate just killed the $600 1099-Reporting requirement in the "Obamacare" Law.


Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:56 | 929419 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I always liked Pac Man ;-)

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 21:21 | 929487 william the bastard
william the bastard's picture

The entire law was struck down by a federal judge. In other news Nixon resigns. (This aspect of the law is, ironically, popular among both parties in the house-which will override senate play acting. 1099s for sales of PM WILL become law in 2012). Play the lie accordingly.


Wed, 02/02/2011 - 21:58 | 929580 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"The entire law was struck down by a federal judge."

Exactly so...the O administration is deciding to keep on keeping on though...waiting on an appeal that hasn't even been filed yet.

In summary...the rule of law means nothing to the chief law enforcement officer in the country...the Attorney General.

Nothing to see here...move along...move along.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 21:58 | 929582 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!  If true, great news for all small business owners!  But, like any terminal disease they'll be back!

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 22:25 | 929678 nmewn
nmewn's picture

You just have to keep up the treatments ;-)

Eternal vigilance.

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 04:57 | 930276 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

thanks for the heads up on the $600 1099, bob.

Hahaha! well, maybe the House will act & prez0 will sign it.

the rule, dumber than dirt to begin with, was prob. bullish for PM's.

who would walk into a coin shop and sell $600 worth of anything if it were going to be reported as INCOME?

i think we need to ponder:  why did this happen, in the first place?

REVENGE!!!  let's consider the background: 

when the market crashed in '08 and bottomed @ 666, the PM's got taken down, hard.

paper drapers in silver got annihilated, like just about everybody.  but, what happened with the physical?  in the stores and shops along the streets where we live? 

well, the network of numismatists REFUSED TO GO ALONG!!!

the ANA kept the BUY @ 20-30% over spot, nationwide.  they refused to capitulate.  they would not sell at those bankster bullshit levels.  when you could buy paper silver in the 8's, you could sell real silver in the low 10's, as i recall.

coin dealers are organized very much like the old NASDAQ---a network of loose cannon(s), united by a bid/ask sheet, phones and computers, only MUCH more visible to the public, b/c they have stores and conventions all over the place, and, along with the bullion business, take care of collectors, while collectors take care of them.  oh, there are scams and frauds, but if you know a few basics and are willing to drive 1/2 hour to get a second opinion, after a few mistakes when you begin, it's not too complicated, especially the bullion stuff.  cash talks and b.s. walks.

many dealers ADVERTISE a surcharge for debit/credit cards. b/c the cards co's (banksters) charge that 3% vig, or more (Am.Exp.), and these guys/gals do NOT like to pay it.  these folks are so different from "Financial Industry" and "Banking" and paper, that, although the industry is not without problems, it is so far above the stuff we tear our hair over on ZH all the time as to be a pretty refreshing way to invest, and do business, by comparison. i'm not saying you won't get a lowball offer, especially if the dealer doesn't NEED what you are selling, but you don't have to take it, do you?  if you're in a hurry, and need cash, well, it is not that different from selling a car, a house, or jewelry. unless you're selling bullion.  but if you are not, and are builing a position or a collection, take your time and see what you can do for YOURSELF.

if you hate banksters, you'll feel right at home with most of these folks!  trust me!

so, REVENGE! the bankster-goobermint oligarchs, under cover of "all should pay their fair share of taxes", is trying to nuke these folks AND their clientele, IMO. bad blood.

this dumbass law is gonna cost them a FORTUNE in paperwork, and if they ever get "audited", they may never make it back to the customer at the counter, again. 

besides, in gold/silver bullion and junk silver coins, if they are US, they are CURRENCY!  a 1 oz. Am. Gold Eagle says, right on the coin:  FIFTY DOLLARS.  A Silver Eagle says ONE DOLLAR, just like a silver dollar.  these clowns wanna tax transactions involving NOTHING but American currency?  yes.

so, i think the bankster-goobermint ologarchy is trying to get between the dealers and their customers, big-time, here.

almost 75% of all $$ transactions in the US go thru banks, today. including food stamps. i don't know the numbers for these folks, but, maybe 40%?

i have no formal training or education in this area, and i'm sure others know more about it than this superficial shot.  these folks make a MARKET, and guess who wants to get involved and make sure nobody gets away with anything so as to have an unfair advantage over the criminals who are crippling the entire nation?

you got THAT right!

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:50 | 929404 Harndog
Harndog's picture

Bastiat said:

"Just as happened with Liar's Poker, many young folks reading that are thinking:  "I want in on that action!!!""

As reported in The New York Times, some business schools are already using mock trading floors to sell the action:

My favorite comment someone posted in response was "what's next lobbyist school?"


Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:54 | 929415 cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

Mostly foo-foo <yawn>. The most telling part of the twerp's whole blurb is the last paragraph (more timely, too). "Jack my rates up!" pre-regulation. HA! Now that's something worth calling home about, Slick. Nice work.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:58 | 929424 john milton
john milton's picture

OT but this is hilarious..

apple nokia patent dispute

One of Apple's patents that Nokia is supposedly infringing is 'Real-time signal processing system for serially transmitted data (Patent 6343263) So what was Apple's evidence for N97 having a MXC300-30? At first Apple wasn't willing to tell, but Nokia's lawyers kept pressing that Apple has legal responsibility to provide evidence for it's claims. Finally Apple's lawyers gave two documents. One of them was 4 year old press release, which stated that Nokia and Freescale are cooperating in DSP development, but it had nothing to do with N97. The other source of information was based on...Wikipedia and Wikipedia user called “Evil Genius”... I can only imagine the laughter when that document was revealed.

This brings two questions to my mind. Just how incompetent is lawyer/legal team that uses “Evil Genius” as source for evidence and how the hell do they got job representing Apple? Nokia has filed motion to dismiss patent 6343263 from the ITC case.

Nokia's new court paper also includes motion to dismiss the only patent that involved N900/Maemo (System and method for managing power conditions within a digital camera device, patent 5920726). This is camera functionality related patent that involves communication between CPU and camera power management circuitry. Nokia says that N900's camera functions don't operate in the manner described in the patent, and Apple could have easily found this out by downloading Maemo source code from

No web-page/blog link cause (afik) this hasn't been posted anywhere. Took couple of screenshots from the court PDF files to proof that Evil Genius isn't my own invention.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 22:06 | 929613 jkruffin
jkruffin's picture

This is what companies do that are scared and about to be de-throned. Apple is about to go back into the grave like they did a couple decades ago. It might be a few years down the road, but Apple is going to die a slow, disgraceful death.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 23:46 | 929886 prophet_banker
prophet_banker's picture

the patent lawyers make our like bandit's, apple reminds me of Monsanto, file a bunch of patent infringement lawsuites, and settle most for a quick profit, cause it's cheaper to settle than fight, Apples lawyers are probable suprised discovery is getting this far.   Patent's on seeds are criminal, and this US policy should change.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:59 | 929428 zeroman
zeroman's picture

guys, this is getting old; that is, find out their is fraud and nothing is being

done. what this blog needs to focus on now is fuxx the govt. how can we as citizens

create our own solutions?  we are smarter than all of them and

as citizens with organization, we can kick ass. so lets not

sit around and talk about more and more fraud, lets start

a forum to solve the problem!!! huh??

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 21:28 | 929504 indio007
indio007's picture

I second that motion. Enough bitching. They are rubbing it in our face while saying "WTF r  u going to do peon?"

We've gotten lazy damn it. 

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 21:57 | 929558 tickhound
tickhound's picture

Ill start by eliminating those things that will be a waste of time... notifying nbc, cnn, foxnews, wsj, nytimes, wpost, your congressman, bloombg, the sec or any other of our numerous regulators. There's always alex jones and jesse ventura... how we doin so far bitchez...

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 21:00 | 929430 bhakta
bhakta's picture

Nothing new here that we did not know by first hand experience. But, it would be really nice to see Mr. Obama's Department of Injustice do something to put the heads of these institutions where they belong. Sadly, I am sure this is not going to happen in my lifetime unless Bill Black is made Attorney General.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 21:00 | 929434 Johnny Lawrence
Johnny Lawrence's picture

This entire industry is like this.  From a brokerage level, we tell the client we're charging him 1%, but it's really 1.25%...or we tell the client we aren't charging for bonds, but there's a 2% markup.  Or, the ol' 'you can't lose on a variable annuity" and it takes a million years for the client to even receive their principal back.

The whole industry is bullshit.  If you're honest with clients, you lose.

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 00:33 | 930017 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

That's close to what happens to lots of folks who closed on a home in the last years of the housing bubble.   Papers with bogus rates and terms strewn amongst the proper paperwork to be signed, financial documentation forged, etc.   So, it's not just the upper echelon financiers doing the nasty deeds.  It's a ground floor to penthouse phenomenon.

I found this to be true even as far back as 1988 when I went to escrow on a duplex I bought for rental.  Rate was 1/4% higher than quoted.   I walked out of closing.   If that had been a primary residence, old house sold, no place to live, the quandary would have been much greater.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 21:03 | 929442 Hollow_Point
Hollow_Point's picture

A few months ago my son began studying for his CFA designation after obtaining a masters in economics and a undergad in theoretical physics. One section involved writing an exam in "ethics" and naturally I was excited for him and upon asking him how he did on the exam he said, "Dad, it was fucking awful, I'm never going to be hired by any investment bank". I asked him what the hell happened...and he said "Dad, I aced the fucking test, who is going to hire me now?" 

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 21:08 | 929464 william the bastard
william the bastard's picture

I have a CFA.

To earn a CFA charter, you must have four years of qualified investment work experience

The CFA Program is organized into three levels, each culminating in a six-hour exam.

You better try again.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 21:21 | 929491 Johnny Lawrence
Johnny Lawrence's picture

And after all of that studying and exam-taking, CFA advice can be wrapped up in two sentences.

1. Don't worry the market always comes back.

2. Over the long-term, the market averages 10%.


Wed, 02/02/2011 - 21:40 | 929535 Josh Randall
Josh Randall's picture

ROCK on Johnny -- Sweep the leg on this Jabroni

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 22:21 | 929668 william the bastard
william the bastard's picture

Josh Randall. Member 1 week 20 hours. Unknown comic. Destined to stay that way.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 21:24 | 929495 Hollow_Point
Hollow_Point's picture

Don't know the details but he study for his level 2 right now. I think he writes in June.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 22:19 | 929662 william the bastard
william the bastard's picture

beat it asshat

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 22:38 | 929714 Coldfire
Coldfire's picture

ROTFLMAO! Your son is awfully bright. In this game, ethics are a mortal disadvantage.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 21:25 | 929499 Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture

Of course it doesn't happen in the shadows. You don't have to hide it when you own the law. The real supposed criminals, the mafia operate in the shadows, and sit in awe of what these guys do in broad daylight.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 21:34 | 929520 Tic tock
Tic tock's picture

Y'know, but it's all about what's in the last line. These guys think they're smart. But they're not.. given the tools which they use and the services they're asked to peform - they're coming up with pretty much what is in line with the logical progression in dubious structured products. MBS was a huge mistake, in a long line of bad choices. And its money - the stuff everyone uses to make a living for the brief years spent here. Mammon isn't a god to be worshiped, money is a responsibility. 

What saddens me isn't that young neophytes to Mammon have been corrupted, or that high priests of finance must drink the blood of millions to survive. It's that the fellowship of this global population, this mankind, will be split again into those who can shoulder their responsibility, who treasure their principles and those who will not have the opportunity to learn to do so.

So close we were, we could have squared the circle. People would have learnt to become self-sufficient. etc., 

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 21:34 | 929523 almost_have_a_name
almost_have_a_name's picture

If the money's not real, is the crime ?

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 21:36 | 929528 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

More on the deeply rooted culture of fraud and just how deep the rabbit hole goes:

From FT: Leading Irish opposition party Fine Gael: Holders of senior bank debt must take a haircut or Ireland may have to default on sovereign debt


So let me get this straight. Private Banks are in default due to 'bad' (read fraudulent) business decisions. And it's therefore even possible that the whole country might default as a consequence? WTF. There's no reason for it to be an inevitable consequence or even a thought for a second. Private investors lose their shirt from private defaults. Guess it's the the US inspired way to do things

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 05:32 | 930295 reload
reload's picture

Exactly: and dont forget that a lot of Banks (especially German ones) set up Special Investment Vehicles in Dublin specifically to allow them to take risks that their home town regulations would have forbidden. The rubbish inside these things is still valued at whatever price suits their banking owners.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 21:40 | 929537 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Ah, just another day at the office.

Did he bother to mention what his bonus was?

I sure coulda used a job like that when I was fresh out of business school.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 21:44 | 929545 Downtoolong
Downtoolong's picture

As my boss summed me up after a day of interviews, I was “fucking unpolished.”

No one learns how to make a seven figure bonus flipping bonds at Harvard, Yale, Wharton, Stanford, UM or UVA. You can only learn that kind of crime on the street, Wall Street.


Wed, 02/02/2011 - 21:45 | 929546 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Last months dog & pony show in the UK. The trail of theft is rampant.

Barclays Bank Boss Drilled Over Corporate Tax and Tax Havens



Wed, 02/02/2011 - 22:20 | 929665 Careless Whisper
Careless Whisper's picture

thanks for the link.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 22:09 | 929620 gwar5
gwar5's picture

I feel lots better now, knowing the entire culture is crooked from top to bottom......

The big room is just the training ground to see who will be the King Rat and sit in the big chair.


Good insight, Thanks!

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 22:32 | 929698 ak_khanna
ak_khanna's picture

Th­e rich corporatio­­­­­ns and the too big to fail bunch of banksters can get away with murder, fraud, coercian, harrasseme­­nt of the general public and any other illegal activity under the sun because they have a lot of influence on the political class, the rule makers and the rule enforcers due to their enormous purchasing power. So irrespecti­­­­­­­­­­v­e of the position in the government­­­­­­­­­­, everyone works for their benefit.

The politician­­­­­­s around the world are nothing more than auction items which can be sold to the highest bidder. They will do whatever they can for the lobbyist paying them the maximum amount of money or votes, be it the unions, the banksters, the richest corporatio­­­­­­ns or individual­­­­­­s. They are in the power seat to extract maximum advantage for themselves in the small time frame they occupy the seat of power.

The rest of the population is least of their concerns. The only activity they do is pacify the majority of the population using false statistics and promises of a better future so that they do not lynch them and their masters while they are robbing the taxpayers.


Wed, 02/02/2011 - 23:06 | 929778 blind squirrel
blind squirrel's picture

This is much ado about nothing.  Anyone who 'relies' on their Street coverage for 'advice and education' is asking for a dorking. If you don't understand the pricing of the derivative then you have no business talking on the trading line. The corporations need to hire some competent financial professionals to do their hedging.

If this article surprises you then you probably believe none of your girlfriends ever cheated on you, too.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 23:21 | 929820 bjennings
bjennings's picture

I guess because you had girlfriends cheat on you it makes it all right.  It is much ado about nothing if you consider, immoral, unethical, dishonest, and ignoring your fiduciary responsibilities as nothing and if you really think it is nothing, than you are more than likely part of the problem.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 23:41 | 929871 Cursive
Cursive's picture

I never heard this arrangement described as a conflict of interest. I learned to think we were simply smarter than the client.

I'm an auditor and I can tell you that 95% of the people that I encounter ignore any COI when it benefits them.

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 23:54 | 929915 Sad Sufi
Sad Sufi's picture

ThanksTyler for this story.

My family pulled out from these flim flam men, who at Citi-Smith Barney fleeced my family.  Citi was fined in about 2000, and even then, the "broker" was shocked we stopped doing business with them.  He truly didn't understand!????

Wed, 02/02/2011 - 23:56 | 929927 Sad Sufi
Sad Sufi's picture

In fact, it was about then, in 2002, that "strangely," and against all advice, we began to buy gold.  Something about fruad, and collusion of regulators that makes a person want hard money, not bullshit on a stick.

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 00:09 | 929963 prophet_banker
prophet_banker's picture

this is good to see insiders speak out, there is more to mention than the surface corruption cases like this and the robo signers; consider the structual corruption, these same broker houses are 1. selling shares they don't own, naked shorts, 2. front running orders w/ HFT programs.  Buy and hold is no longer, there is no getting ahead in the "long run" in these markets with such a high level of corruption and manipulation.

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 01:20 | 930122 laosuwan
laosuwan's picture

I was just months past my twentieth birthday, with no work experience to speak of, in a world beyond my imagination.

Are we supposed to believe someone with no college degree at 20 years of age is hired by Citi to trade derivities to corporations?

Sat, 02/05/2011 - 11:06 | 937307 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

He was the traders assistant. He did all the gruntwork and also took the calls. They dont give a damn if you are degreed or not as long as you are smart enough to be trainable.

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 03:41 | 930256 Boxed Merlot
Boxed Merlot's picture

Are we supposed to believe someone with no college degree at 20 years of age is hired by Citi to trade derivities to corporations?...


"I learned to think we were simply smarter than the client"...


What criteria did Soros use when deciding on his tool for the POTUS?

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 05:22 | 930292 reload
reload's picture

I am looking forward to some details emerging from the Municipalitys of the awful swap structures they were advised to enter into by Wall Street. When we start to get some details it will be relatively simple to reverse engineer the structure using market prices from the time of the transaction. This will show just how badly the banks were gouging their `customers`. The mendacity of some of the pricing of these structures goes far deeper than a bit of ambiguity about the day counts used for interest paid/recieved. So far I have only heard a few rumblings about this, but I `suspect` that some of the  State and Muni Treasurers (and hence the taxpayer) were properly raped.

Sat, 02/05/2011 - 11:00 | 937301 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

What you are suggesting is similar to my proposal. However in your investigation statistics wont be necessary. When they look at the timing of the transactions it will be clear they were grossly mispriced in favor of the bankers.

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 10:50 | 930705 twotraps
twotraps's picture

I'm wondering which is more stupider...making a comment that nothing will ever get done about this lying in finance, taking the time to actually write this comment, or still thinking you can make money without completely ripping people off.  Very short career in brokerage for me as I would not lie for bosses and write up winning false back-dated trades for our largest customers at the CBOE. 

Sat, 02/05/2011 - 10:42 | 937271 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Guys this is easy to prove with an analysis of variance. Non randomness is very obvious and the amount of the grift can be calculated too. Pricing each day, or each quarter if there arent enough daily transactions, will vary around a mean. If the peoole on the floor are always or almost always on the advantage in terms of pricing on transactions then it will stick out like a sore thumb. With a multivariate analysis of variance you could even figure out which were the favored groups specifically and who was grifting their customers the most. Some smart lawyer needs to go after them. Also all those foreign exchange transactions on credit cards and pension funds. It will be glaringly obvious if they consistently took advantage of the variation in dollar pricing. You cant 80 percent of the time receive the best price for a transaction and your clients 80 percent of the time receiving the worst pricing when pricing varies throughout the day. Wow. These banks have been skimming everyone on pension fund and credit card foreign exchange transactions as well as otc derivative pricing. It would be glaringly obvious if someone like the government would investigate, but they wont. Anybody smart enough to figure this out and know how to prove it would never take a low paying government job.

Sat, 02/05/2011 - 10:55 | 937285 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Ok smart lawyer. There are hundreds of millions in damages here, at least. Get yourself a statistics guy and explain to him that hundreds of thousands of foreign exchange transactions of credit cards are priced daily and the price of the dollar is variable throughout the day. Tell him banks are cheating their customers because the banks are ending up consistently with the best price on average. Ask him for a way to prove it and calculate the average size of the grift. Calpers? Anyone? Of course the banks.charge a premium for the transaction, but the average price advantage will be the premium plus the grift, whatever small percent that is.

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