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Ted Butler Urges Everyone To Submit A Response To The CFTC On Silver Manipulation Schemes

Tyler Durden's picture


By Ted Butler of Silver Seek

Speak Up and Be Heard

On several occasions over the past couple of years, thousands of you have taken the time to write to The Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) concerning the issue of position limits in COMEX silver.  Now the CFTC has solicited your opinion again for what will be the last time.  The current open comment period, through March 28, is the culmination of all the public hearings and commentary over the past two years.  Your comments on silver position limits make a difference.  Private legal counsel and even sources within the Commission have assured me that there can be serious consequences for the CFTC should they ignore the will of the public, when that public opinion is reasonable.

The silver market has been manipulated by a concentrated short position.  You can’t have a manipulation without a concentrated position.  The only effective way to prevent concentration is by enacting legitimate speculative position limits.  The key is to set the speculative position limits at the right level; not too high, so that speculators control the market, not too low as to restrict trading liquidity.

The proposed position limit for silver comes out way too high, over 5,000 contracts.  It’s too high because it gives speculators too much dominance over real world producers and consumers.  5,000 contracts is the equivalent of 25 million ounces of silver.  There are only three mining companies in the world who produce more than 25 million ounces of silver a year.  In addition, there are only a handful of silver consumers in the world who consume more than 25 million ounces a year.  There are hundreds of important miners and consumers who produce or consume less than 25 million ounces of silver a year.  Therefore, it makes no sense to empower any speculator who comes along with the ability to hold, long or short, more than the amounts most of the important world producers and consumers make or use in a year.

The proper level for position limits in silver is about 1500 contracts or 7.5 million ounces.  That amount is still larger than what the vast majority of the world’s silver producers and consumers make or use in a year.  If you agree, please make your opinion known to the Commission.  It’s crucial that you do.

Here’s my letter.  Use any part of it or just the last sentence on a copy/paste basis if you wish.

Dear Chairman Gensler and fellow Commissioners:

I urge you to approve the staff’s proposal on position limits, including limiting exemptions to bona fide hedgers.   I would ask you, however, to readjust the proposed formula in silver.  The current formula would result in a position limit of over 5,000 contracts for any single speculator, on an all-months-combined basis.  5,000 contracts is the equivalent of 25 million ounces of silver.  This is too high of a threshold in light of the realities of the world silver market.

There are only three mining companies in the world who produce more than 25 million ounces of silver per year and only a similar number of industrial consumers using more than that amount.  Any speculator holding an amount of silver derivatives greater than what 99% of the world’s silver producers and consumers make or use in a year would have inordinate pricing power.  The purpose of speculative position limits is to prevent such a circumstance.

Please institute a 1500 contract (7.5 million ounce) position limit for silver.

Respectfully submitted,

Ted Butler

The instructions for submitting a comment can be found here  All that is required is your first and last name and email address (repeated) and to use the validation code before submitting your comment. Your email address will not be published, but you will receive a confirmation that your comment was recorded. If you have difficulty entering your comment electronically, you can mail it in, but I just did it and I’m not a computer maven.

Please remember that your comments and name will be published for the record. Accordingly, please be professional and limit your comments to position limits, the issue at hand. Also, please comment only once, but be sure to comment. It is important that the Commission knows your opinion on this matter. You can view the public comments on position limits here

Ted Butler

February 23, 2011



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Fri, 02/25/2011 - 15:39 | 997623 quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

My front side is already yellow

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 15:57 | 997669 Michael
Michael's picture

It's hilarious how they refuse to even mention the S-word on the business channels just as how they would not mention the source of the Charlie Sheen interview and the FOX Ron Paul deception.

Send them the silver bears power point presentations.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:15 | 997742 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Letters should also be sent to the Attorney General of New York, Eric Schneiderman, as well as the Attorney General of the state in which you reside.  What JPM is doing is pure unadulterated fraud & theft so perhaps at least one of the AGs is not bought and paid for and would take this issue seriously.

For NY, you can contact the AG's office here:

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 17:08 | 997912 bankrupt JPM bu...
bankrupt JPM buy silver's picture

do you need any copies burned for th PP pres?  I want to unload part 5 right now, But I'll wait till next week.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:12 | 997736 Bearster
Bearster's picture

What if the opinion of the public is not reasonable?  The very idea of using coercion to somehow force markets to be free is not reasonable.

The very idea that the banks are naked short, as opposed to profiting from the carry trade (buy physical, sell a future simultaneously, pocket the contango spread), is not reasonable.

 Hell, position limits would prohibit banks from putting this trade on past a certain size.  Do you really want the spread between physical and to widen??

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 15:40 | 997626 velobabe
velobabe's picture

letter writing time, bitchez†

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 15:42 | 997636 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Shall we use the feathers in our caps?

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 15:48 | 997655 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture


Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:00 | 997692 txapela
txapela's picture

letter sent.



Fri, 02/25/2011 - 17:58 | 998080 The Fonz
The Fonz's picture

Indeed! Letter sent!

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 19:01 | 998310 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture


Free my silver letter sent.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 22:18 | 998843 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Shut down the market manipulator(s)!

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:08 | 997728 asdasmos
asdasmos's picture

Letter Sent. & for your audio pleasure we have....


Marc Faber McAlvany Interview 23 February 2011.



Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:50 | 997869 IQ 145
IQ 145's picture

 Thank you. always glad to pointed to a Marc Faber interview.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 15:41 | 997628 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

This has been shared on a few sites/blogs.  Let the masses awaken!

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 15:41 | 997630 Top_Kill
Top_Kill's picture


Fri, 02/25/2011 - 15:42 | 997635 Josh Randall
Josh Randall's picture

Done and Doner

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 17:10 | 997918 Amish Hacker
Amish Hacker's picture

Me, too. I have composed one of the greatest letters in the history of public persuasion. Stand back, everyone, now you're really going to see some action in Washington.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 17:35 | 997999 collinar
collinar's picture

Please post it here for all to see your genius.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 15:42 | 997640 BallsDeepGold
BallsDeepGold's picture

We don't need position limits, we just need to make sure the shorts can deliver what they sold. Much easier than some arbitrary limit.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 15:45 | 997646 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

Would it not be easier for the people to ask for "end the C F T C " after all what is the point of paying regulators that do nothing. 

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 15:45 | 997648 nedwardkelly
nedwardkelly's picture

Speak up and be heard!?



Does anyone really think anyone will see any sort of reprimand for any 'schemes'. Haha... Next thing you'll tell me Obama will bring change.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 17:02 | 997895 eddiebe
eddiebe's picture

Bridges for sale

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 15:48 | 997649 The_Euro_Sucks
The_Euro_Sucks's picture

Sorry but I think its a waste of time. The only way to resolve this issue is to buy the metal and blow up the fucking exchanges.  


ps I have respect for the work Ted does and I leared a lot from him. Just not agreeing about begging them to be fair, its war in case you didnt notice

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 15:50 | 997664 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Just go and submit a fucking comment it takes 1 minute.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 15:52 | 997668 The_Euro_Sucks
The_Euro_Sucks's picture

I dont care if it takes 1 minute or 10 years. Waste of time is waste of time. If you like being on your knees begging, fine. 

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:11 | 997705 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

Quit  'LEARING' at Butler!



Fri, 02/25/2011 - 15:54 | 997675 tmosley
tmosley's picture

No reason not to write a letter.  You can do both.  I am.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 19:18 | 998383 55 men
55 men's picture

I sent this, it is from Bix Weir: 

Fair and appropriate position limits in silver should be NO MORE than 1,500 contracts or 7.5M ounces. The current proposed limit of over 5,000 contracts WILL NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEM OF MANIPULATION IN SILVER! The 1,500 contract limit is the correct amount and is STILL greater than any other current concentration in physical commodities traded on the COMEX.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 17:43 | 998036 living on the edge
living on the edge's picture

What is sad is Ted believes these assholes at the CFTC are decent, honest people who in the end will stop the manipulation. The CFTC will not regulate an end to the manipulation so the game won't end until it implodes on it's own. Buy Gold, buy Silver.

Be well.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 15:46 | 997651 JimboJammer
JimboJammer's picture

Ted ,   they  are  all  being  Bribed....

The  system  is  broke...

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 15:47 | 997656 JimboJammer
JimboJammer's picture

The  Irish  People  are  angry...  When  they

get  30  Law  Rockets  they  will  fix  things

in  one  afternoon....

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 15:48 | 997657 bigdad06
bigdad06's picture

Will someone wake Ted up! Give it up Ted! The system is broke and the only way to make real change is to take possession of real physical gold and silver. Crash JP Morgan buy silver!

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 15:49 | 997659 lieutenantjohnchard
lieutenantjohnchard's picture

it's true. the bad guys can create havoc. i'll be sending my thoughts to the cftc.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 15:50 | 997661 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Hell I want bigger speculative short positions!  Crank silver down to $5 guys, show us what you are made of!

The spec limits are a joke.  Let them do what they please, when they have to delivery they will either default or be forced to deliver.  People taking deliver will be far, far more effective then relying on government regulators.  If no one wants delivery then the paper market wins, if delivery is forced then paper market dies.  Anyone hanging their hopes on the skill and integrity of government regulators is either hopelessly naive or ludicrously stupid.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 15:49 | 997662 Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture

Dear CFTC,


We know the squid has a tentacle firmly up your ass, so far in fact that it virtually controls your mouths with every twitch of its blood sucking appendage.


Fuck you.





Fri, 02/25/2011 - 15:55 | 997676 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Life is in the details.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 15:56 | 997678 The_Euro_Sucks
The_Euro_Sucks's picture

My thoughts indeed. Did you know the squid (Mario Draghi) is about to take over the ECB?

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 19:45 | 998462 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

his-story would expect no less, groomed for the *cough* position.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 15:49 | 997663 fredquimby
fredquimby's picture

I just weighed the 2011 silver eagles I bought in USA.

All of them weigh 1.106oz ??!! That means 2 free oz in 20 coins??!!

Anyone else in the same boat?? This seems to be a major discrepancy, I could understand one coin being a bit different, but really, 1.1 ounce, every one????!!

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 15:51 | 997666 Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture

American Silver Eagles are not pure silver so I believe that they have to be over in order to be called 1oz bullion silver.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:45 | 997850 JohnG
JohnG's picture

This is correct.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 15:56 | 997680 lieutenantjohnchard
lieutenantjohnchard's picture

the copy cats can either get the right size or the right weight but not both unless i'm mistaken. i'll weigh mine to see what they render. i agree. 10% weight differential seems high.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:04 | 997706 Burgess Shale
Burgess Shale's picture

The US nickel is 75% nickel and 25% copper, which makes it worth over 7 cents, at current nickel and copper prices.  Invest in nickels, bitchez!

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 20:13 | 998548 fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

I bought 220 lbs of them just for fun. 

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:06 | 997720 BrianOFlanagan
BrianOFlanagan's picture

I am sure your scale is in ounces, not troy ounces.  1 troy ounce is equal to 1.1 regular ounces. Try switching your scale to grams - should weigh 31.103g.

Sorry, no free silver for you.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:25 | 997783 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Not all ounces are created equal. Some are born with a Silver spoon in their mouth. :>)

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 17:53 | 998068 Troy Ounce
Troy Ounce's picture

Somebody called me...?

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:32 | 997805 atlee
atlee's picture

It is a TROY oz. A troy oz has 31 grams  as opposed to 28 grams in an oz of well...everything else.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:44 | 997841 AR15AU
AR15AU's picture

1 troy ounce = 1.09714286 ounces

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 18:38 | 998212 Blythes Master
Blythes Master's picture

Yeah, I bought some old 10oz. Englehard loafie bars once and threw them on the scale one by one and by golly if they all didn't weigh just a shade over 11 ounces each!!


Then I realized that I was using a postal mail scale instead of a TROY OUNCE scale. Ugh!

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 18:54 | 998278 Raynja
Raynja's picture

Its not weed, they measure PM's in troy oz

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 15:53 | 997671 Robslob
Robslob's picture

They are .9991 vs Maples at .9999

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:04 | 997708 fredquimby
fredquimby's picture

Cheeky. I did ask if they were .999 but left it at that. haha Conspiracy solved.




Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:40 | 997828 fredquimby
fredquimby's picture

Yup. 1.001 troy ounces of pure gleaming silver it is.

Digital scale has Toz scale too...

RFI as my brother says...Read the F****** Insrtructions!!


Fri, 02/25/2011 - 15:54 | 997674 CU1981
CU1981's picture

Complete BS,


It would be like petitioning a junky asking if they'd support legalizing drugs.

CFTC exists ONLY to protect the criminal system. Us sheep have no say in the matter. Get over it and move along.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:00 | 997696 Shameful
Shameful's picture

That's any government regulator.  They exist to attack the little players guys and protect the big politically protected players.  The glory of crony capitalism.

The funny thing is the suppression helps the little guy here.  It lets the little guy load up at a cheap prices while hosing the producer, which further helps the little guy.  After all if the supply is artificially low because of suppressed price means that when the market does float the people who bought early will be in a better spot.

I'm pleased as punch there are over sized spec shorts.  I wish they would double them.  They will catch a bailout, and the physical holders get to ride the wave.  Sure the taxpayers suffer, but we are already on the hook for all the TBTF bad bets, what's one more massive bad bet?

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:01 | 997698 lieutenantjohnchard
lieutenantjohnchard's picture

not fighting back or taking a stand guarantees status as sheep. many u.s citizens are not sheep. maybe you're projecting your status on the rest of us. unless, of course, you're purposely being provocative to spur action in which case maybe it will work on somebody.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 15:57 | 997681 Ragnarok
Ragnarok's picture

Done, perfect post!

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 15:56 | 997683 FunkyMonkeyBoy
FunkyMonkeyBoy's picture

"respectively submitted"

-Why doesn't he just go and offer them a reach around too. You need to be tough with these criminal scum filth, not pander to them. This is going no where.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 15:57 | 997684 jrpuffnstuff
jrpuffnstuff's picture

Yes, may the manipulation end.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 15:58 | 997685 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Clean break above $33 right before the weekend!  Like we wrote the book.  Gensler be warned, we are coming to take our silver, our monie, back.

Elvis Costello 1983 Everyday I Write the Book :

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:01 | 997695 terranstyler
terranstyler's picture

I have respect for Ted, but I do not understand why he still believes in those crooks!?

There is only one solution to the problem and it starts with "d" and ends with "efault"

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:01 | 997703 AldoHux_IV
AldoHux_IV's picture

Probably not the right way to demand it, but also added to the letter that central banks disclose transactions regarding the PM's markets and it be made available to the public.

Never can ask too much from our dear government.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:01 | 997704 digalert
digalert's picture

My CFTC comment number is 29574, if that serves as a counter.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:27 | 997792 Threeggg
Threeggg's picture

It does !

Comment number reciept here


Thats 60 letters sent in 19 minutes

even the people that say its a waste of time should participate. Lets see if we can get it over a million !!

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:45 | 997852 Rooster Cogburn
Rooster Cogburn's picture

Mine was 29679, just submitted it.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 17:52 | 998060 collinar
collinar's picture

My comment number was 28323 submitted aprox. 20 hours prior to this post.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 22:32 | 998865 Blythes Master
Blythes Master's picture

28791 here....



Your comment:



I vehemently oppose positon limits that are more than 1,500 contracts for silver. This represents 7.5 M ounces of silver which is more than a resonable amount to be naked shorting in the market. By now, these shorts have become problematic in the fact that this price suppression/manipulation scheme is not working and the COMEX will default. The price of physical silver continues to rise despite Blythe Masters best efforts to keep it down. By issuing all of those unbacked short contracts, all that they are accomplishing is delaying the inevidable parabolic rise of an decades long manipulated price of marked to market silver.

The fact that this issue is open for comments suggests that you, the comissars of the CFTC, have working knowledge of this ongoing blatent criminal activity. By merely allowing these activities to proliferate while we continue to point out the painfully obvious to you over and over again, suggests your willing complicity to let it continue unabated in hopes that the problem will eventually go away.

These problems will go away thanks to one of a few remaining oucomes that are guaranteed to occur.

1.) You will do the correct and moral thing by setting REASONABLE limits of no more that 1,500 open contracts allowed by one entity or subsidiary agents, employees, or officers of said entity thereby letting silver find it's natural market price.

2.) Enough SLV share holders accumulate enough shares to create enough baskets to demand delivery from the COMEX which willl bring the COMEX and the custodian of SLV, JPM, to declare a force majure and insolvency.

3.) You continue to obfuscate and stall while the price of silver goes parabolic and the COMEX blows up due to a force majure. When that happens, the last place on earth that I would want to be is in any of your shoes.

Lower the limits to a MAXIMUM of 1,500 contracts while you still have the chance to make a difference.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:09 | 997717 gwar5
gwar5's picture

May as well. It will probably shock the CFTC to know some people took the red pill and actually know what is going on. It may give them the moral excuse to actually do something. Ted has been there for us for a long time.


Yes, we have no Bananas. (The song, Scandanavian): YouTube - Banana Airlines - Yes we have no bananas



Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:09 | 997726 A_MacLaren
A_MacLaren's picture

I had already sent my remarks to the CFTC earlier today, using some of what Ted suggested but also expanding them, and calling for restrictions and tight position limits on the paper silver contract writing dealer scumbags.

Bona fide producers and consumers shouldn't be limited in the same way.

But(t) Fuck You JP Morgan and HSBC, you do not deserve exemption to the limits.  Too much exposure in the OTC deriviatives?  Have too much physical?  Reduce the scope and scale of your book.  Sell the physical to the mints to meet real demand.  I'm sure RCM would be happy to help you reduce your exposure.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:10 | 997733 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture
Thank you for submitting your comment to the Commodity Futures Trading Commission. Please check your e-mail for important information regarding your comment. Public Comments

Members of the public that would like to provide comments on previously proposed rules that apply to swap dealers and major swap participants and have not yet been finalized may include those comments within the timely submissions of comments on the proposed rules to define swap dealers and major swap participants. The CFTC will use its discretion to include such comments in the comment files and consider them for the related proposed rules. In order to ensure such consideration, commenters should clearly identify those portions of these comments that refer to the related proposed rules.


Upcoming Comment Deadline  // All Comment Files by Year  // Search All Comments Deadline Comment Description 2/28/2011

Proposed Rule 75 FR 81519  //  PDF Version

17 CFR Part 23 Confirmation, Portfolio Reconciliation, and Portfolio Compression Requirements for Swap Dealers and Major Swap Participants

Comments Open Date: 12/28/2010
Comments Closing Date: 2/28/2011   3/7/2011

Proposed Rule 76 FR 722  //  PDF Version

17 CFR Parts 1, 37, 38, 39, and 40 Governance Requirements for Derivatives Clearing Organizations, Designated Contract Markets, and Swap Execution Facilities; Additional Requirements Regarding the Mitigation of Conflicts of Interest

Comments Open Date: 1/6/2011
Comments Closing Date: 3/7/2011   3/8/2011

Proposed Rule 76 FR 1214  //  PDF Version

17 CFR Part 37 Core Principles and Other Requirements for Swap Execution Facilities

Comments Open Date: 1/7/2011
Comments Closing Date: 3/8/2011   3/14/2011

Privacy Act Systems 76 FR 5974  //  PDF Version

Privacy Act of 1974; Publication of the Systems of Records Managed by the Commodity Futures Trading Commission; Notice

Comments Open Date: 2/2/2011
Comments Closing Date: 3/14/2011   3/21/2011

Proposed Rule 76 FR 3698  //  PDF Version

17 CFR Part 39 Risk Management Requirements for Derivatives Clearing Organizations

Comments Open Date: 1/20/2011
Comments Closing Date: 3/21/2011   3/21/2011

Public Information Collection Recommendations Regarding Regulatory Responses to the Market Events of May 6, 2010  //  PDF Version


The Joint CFTC-SEC Advisory Committee issued a report presenting their recommendations regarding regulatory responses to the market events of May 6, 2010.

The CFTC and SEC are seeking input from the public on its recommendations.


Comments Open Date: 2/18/2011
Comments Closing Date: 3/21/2011   3/28/2011

Proposed Rule 76 FR 4752  //  PDF Version


17 CFR Parts 1, 150 and 151 Position Limits for Derivatives

Related Documents:

Illustrative Tables for Position Limits Notice of Proposed Rulemaking: Excel Version // PDF Version

Explanatory Notes on Setting Non-spot-Month Position Limits: PDF Version


Comments Open Date: 1/26/2011
Comments Closing Date: 3/28/2011   4/4/2011

Proposed Rule 76 FR 6095  //  PDF Version

17 CFR Parts 3, 32, 33, and 35 Commodity Options and Agricultural Swaps

Comments Open Date: 2/3/2011
Comments Closing Date: 4/4/2011   4/11/2011

Proposed Rule 76 FR 6708  //  PDF Version

17 CFR Part 23 Orderly Liquidation Termination Provision in Swap Trading Relationship Documentation for Swap Dealers and Major Swap Participants

Comments Open Date: 2/8/2011
Comments Closing Date: 4/11/2011   4/11/2011

Proposed Rule 76 FR 6715  //  PDF Version

17 CFR Part 23 Swap Trading Relationship Documentation Requirements for Swap Dealers and Major Swap Participants

Comments Open Date: 2/8/2011
Comments Closing Date: 4/11/2011   4/12/2011

Proposed Rule 76 FR 7976  //  PDF Version


17 CFR Parts 4, 145, and 147 Commodity Pool Operators and Commodity Trading Advisors: Amendments to Compliance Obligations; Proposed Rule

*Note – This Proposed Rule contains forms which are not displayed in the HTML version.  To see the complete proposal, download the PDF version.


Comments Open Date: 2/11/2011
Comments Closing Date: 4/12/2011   4/12/2011

Proposed Rule 76 FR 8068  //  PDF Version


Commodity Futures Trading Commission 17 CFR Part 4 Securities and Exchange Commission 17 CFR Parts 275 and 279 Reporting by Investment Advisers to Private Funds and Certain Commodity Pool Operators and Commodity Trading Advisors on Form PF

*Note – This Proposed Rule contains forms which are not displayed in the HTML version.  To see the complete proposal, download the PDF version.


Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:15 | 997741 gorillaonyourback
gorillaonyourback's picture

please edit and put just your comment

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:32 | 997801 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

I cant now that you have responded, stupid. sorry to offend your shallow sensibilities.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 19:30 | 998416 ft65
ft65's picture

JW n FL / Trinity, I know the one who has shallow sensibilities, and that's the owner of a grubby forum known to many as

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 22:43 | 998881 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

How do I KNOW you're not part of the conspiracy, hmmm? <|;>O

Sat, 02/26/2011 - 04:30 | 999336 ft65
ft65's picture

We all have our own agenda. ZeroHedge used to have great commenter's, but they are gradually descending to the lowest common denominator. The HB Gary / MacDill revelation is not the only project going on. All the guns / ammo / preps / bitchez posts are deliberate "noise". Nothing can be done about it, but hopefully exposing a little may stem the tide.

Sat, 02/26/2011 - 08:46 | 999465 ft65
ft65's picture

JW n FL doesn't do anything by halfs just take a look at - poster ^TrInIty^. (look at the writing style if you don't believe me!) As a matter of interest, does anyone else wonder how high on the list ZH would be on the use of HB Gary / MacDill software. I think the chances are very high! I think the above mentioned site is a proving ground for this software! See how quick you get banned when asking questions about JW n FL and ZH

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:13 | 997738 gorillaonyourback
gorillaonyourback's picture

my cftc comment

In my opinion, the limit for silver contracts should be 500 contracts(2.5million oz). The proposed 5000contracts would do nothing to prevent the manipulation that is going on today. If our founding fathers could see us today im sure they would be ashamed of what we have become. This is your chance to do what you can to try and save what little is left of our nations belief that our government works for ("We the people,,,").

P.S i have no faith, but others do and in want too.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:15 | 997743 Misean
Misean's picture

Hamilton would be quite pleased...just sayin...

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:14 | 997739 Misean
Misean's picture

" when that public opinion is reasonable."

Given that they define reasonable, my opinion would be ignored. So I'll ignore back and just take some more bullion into my safe.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:35 | 997816 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

make sure you have a good place to hide it other than in your house that will be searched at some point for guns, gold / silver and / or anything else the goobermint can take from you for a profit.


should I link the silver / gold confiscation(s)? ok.,or.&fp=42ea6e12edc6080


Gold too you say? ok.,or.&fp=42ea6e12edc6080

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 18:56 | 998293 ft65
ft65's picture

JW n FL / ^TrInIty^ you make out that the government is your enemy, and yet you go running off to them, and use their system when things get out of hand at your ban happy grubby little forum.

Please don't bring your taudry "Guns and Preps, come and get me" garbage to this site. Keep it at home (GLP)

Sat, 02/26/2011 - 02:48 | 999269 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

You're the site police now?  Nice.

Sat, 02/26/2011 - 05:25 | 999367 ft65
ft65's picture

No, I'm just a little sad about the standard of comments on ZH. I used to read them with relish, trying to understand market makers. I never posted, because it was above my intelect. Those days are long gone. Gresham's Law in action, probably helped along by HB Gary / MacDill type software. Government is seeing a return on their investment at ZH.

Sat, 02/26/2011 - 12:54 | 999715 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

I understand.  The fact remains that there is enough thought police out there without our having to smother ourselves as well.   If you don't like a post, skip it.  Believe me, there are lots of folks posting here that I just breeze over.   I always give the newbies a chance before jumping down their throats for uneducated infractions.   Thanks for being here as long as you have.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:36 | 997819 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

From: Blythe Masters
JP Morgan Chase

Comment No: 29624
Date: 2/25/2011

Comment Text:

Dear Chairman Gensler and fellow Commissioners:

I urge you to approve the staff’s proposal on position limits, including limiting exemptions to bona fide hedgers. I would ask you, however, to readjust the proposed formula in silver. The current formula would result in a position limit of over 5,000 contracts for any single speculator, on an all-months-combined basis. 5,000 contracts is the equivalent of 25 million ounces of silver. This is too high of a threshold in light of the realities of the world silver market.

There are only three mining companies in the world who produce more than 25 million ounces of silver per year and only a similar number of industrial consumers using more than that amount. Any speculator holding an amount of silver derivatives greater than what 99% of the world’s silver producers and consumers make or use in a year would have inordinate pricing power. The purpose of speculative position limits is to prevent such a circumstance.

Please institute a 1500 contract (7.5 million ounce) position limit for silver.

Respectfully submitted,

Blythe Masters


That had to be shared and saved before they deleted it... sorry long post haters!

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:22 | 997765 equity_momo
equity_momo's picture

.....and whilst you are wasting your time writing that letter to the CFTC , go ahead and write one to the SEC about HFTs (or any other fucking corrupt scam Wall St is engaged in, there are a myriad to chose from) and another to Congress about Lobby groups (or how they're all corrupt assholes too)

Then round off the day pissing high into the wind , if you try hard enough you'll get it all over your face.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:25 | 997786 justbuygold
justbuygold's picture

Ok then , why don't you just go back to your couch and watch the latest episode of Glee. There ar millions of people in the world now fighting for their freedom at risk of death.  Apathy gets you nowhere.   I give credit to these people for trying for change.  The same goes for takling a few minutes to write a quick letter.   A few hundred thousand of these and it speaks volumes.  Now is the time for action no matter what the result !

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:39 | 997823 equity_momo
equity_momo's picture

Im sorry for the lack of optimism in this respect , you do have a point about making a noise, but im being honest with you - i dont think letters would have changed anything in North africa or the M.E and they wont here.  Im on my couch , reading (i rarely watch the square thing in the corner) and will stand up and be counted when the time comes , but im no leader.  The slow death will continue until there is a critical mass willing to do something about it - im afraid letter writing , especially to a tentacle of part of the squid , isnt it.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 17:21 | 997943 eddiebe
eddiebe's picture


Fri, 02/25/2011 - 18:03 | 998093 collinar
collinar's picture

momo, your comment will help. Everyone, all these comments are critical to documenting the will of the people. The comments are a matter of public record and can be used in the future trials against the CFTF if they fail to implement the will of the people. So for this reason, yes your comments are important. Everyone please comment at the CFTC.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:21 | 997766 justbuygold
justbuygold's picture

Letter sent !

I can't urge members of this board how important it is to do this.  It only took me a metter of 3 minutes.   Stopping the corruption and manipulation of the banks in the precious metals market and having your say with the CFTC is very important.

The fact that the CFTC is now out of money to go and prosecute JP MOrgan for their silver manipulation crimes is beyond me and a major travesty.  However, it doesn't cost them much to change the rules and prevent this from happening in the future.  Have your say !


Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:26 | 997785 RED BARRON
RED BARRON's picture

Establishing position limits will do no good.  I personally know a very wealthy commodity trader that had a friend that was a retired judge, another friend owned a car dealership, and another had alot of cash sitting around.  John orchestrated the biggest run-up in cotton in 1996 using multiple accounts with multiple brokers.

It would not surprise me if John was responsible for the latest cotton runup.  He moved from Orlando to Tucson,Az, and lives in a house worth $8,700,750.00 according to Zillow.  At age 83 what else does he have to do?

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:33 | 997806 camoes
camoes's picture

Can I write bitchez on the letter?? And send them a copy of the Silver Bears Youtube Series??

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:29 | 997795 Platinum_Investor
Platinum_Investor's picture

I've sent letters in the past and will do so again.  This is important for us to

have our words heard.  Even if you feel that it will be pointless. 

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:28 | 997796 BennyBoy
BennyBoy's picture

The CFTC will be as unresponsive as the FED.


Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:35 | 997808 DonutBoy
DonutBoy's picture

What's the point?  JP Morgan buys 1500 contracts, calls Citi to have them buy 1500 and HSBC for another 1500.  There are 4500 contracts with no single "speculator" having a position over 1500 contracts.  You aren't going to out-game these guys with a CFTC rule.  They get their nose's busted when the physical demand can't be met.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:50 | 997870 AR15AU
AR15AU's picture

My thoughts exactly...  they will just use shell corporations, SIVs, subsidiaries, whatever it takes.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:33 | 997809 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Done. The CFTC will be as unresponsive as you allow them to be. Please help create a public record.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:35 | 997818 RED BARRON
RED BARRON's picture

It was 1994 when John S. ran cotton from .70 to $1.15.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:48 | 997820 smeagol
smeagol's picture

Done. took 30 seconds.Nothing ventured nothing gained

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:42 | 997834 Dr. Gonzo
Dr. Gonzo's picture

I'm on it.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:43 | 997840 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

I hope the cftc has the quants available to determine if it is a true hedge or not. Managing SLV might certainly qualify, but ask the cftc to make independent calculations of the size of the exemption needed rather than just take someone's word for it.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:46 | 997855 earnulf
earnulf's picture

There are many ways to fight the war.   It doesn't hurt to engage in multiple attacks on multiple targets to force the enemy to fight on many fronts.   Letter writting is easy (heck he even gave the outline), buying silver depends on your cash availability.    Sometimes all these small attacks will weaken the charade to the point it collapses.    Letter sent, more silver being bought.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:53 | 997876 luk427
luk427's picture
Fair and appropriate position limits in silver should be NO MORE than 1,500 contracts or 7.5M ounces. The current proposed limit of over 5,000 contracts WILL NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEM OF MANIPULATION IN SILVER! The 1,500 contract limit is the correct amount and is STILL greater than any other current concentration in physical commodities traded on the COMEX.  This is from Bix Weir' s website to copy and paste as comment.
Fri, 02/25/2011 - 16:55 | 997879 tellsometruth
tellsometruth's picture

just do it!

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 17:00 | 997889 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

According to Jon "forked tongue Nads" Nadler and Mish Shedlock(stein)i, Ted is nuttier than a fruit cake about this manipulation "nonsense" . Don't worry about it Ted. Its all in your mind. There is no conspiracy. I mean come on pal......:)

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 17:01 | 997890 Misean
Misean's picture

It's all probably an attempt by the government to build a data base of evil silver hoarders.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 17:02 | 997893 Math Man
Math Man's picture

What a crock of sh*t.  There is no silver price suppression scheme.

It's moved up 70% in six months!

Hell, JP Morgan doesn't even have a commoditites prop business.  They shut it to comply with the Volker rule. 

Not to mention it only costs $5 bucks to dig it out of the ground.

Which, by the way, is why all the miners are hedging up right now after the 70% price spike.  They can lock in $27 bucks an ounce in profits...

It's the hedging that is causing the backwardation.  But most of you are too stupid to realize it.

Keep on believing your price suppression conspiracy theories.  Silver will be back below $20 by the summer.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 17:06 | 997907 What_Me_Worry
What_Me_Worry's picture

How much does it cost for the Fed to create money out of thin air?  I'm guessing it has a lower cost of production than silver.

Silver is clearly in the bubble.  Obviously, FRN's are just being undervalued here.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 17:08 | 997911 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

"Silver will be back below $20 by the summer."


This is assuming that "We the People" dont rise up and over throw the evil banker goobermint in 2 - 3 weeks like in Egypt?

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 19:05 | 998327 ft65
ft65's picture

JW n FL / Trinity... Howerver much you try an incite people here at ZeroHedge violence, it is never going to happen. On your own grubby forum, you were not keen at all about the Egypt uprising, in fact your forum encourages rabbit Muslim haters, and bans anyone who supported Muslims. Please go back and mind the store at GLP

Sat, 02/26/2011 - 08:23 | 999453 Jendrzejczyk
Jendrzejczyk's picture

Wascally Muswum haters.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 17:08 | 997913 Misean
Misean's picture

This new learning amazes me, Sir Math Man. Explain again how sheep's bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 17:18 | 997934 Josh Randall
Josh Randall's picture

You are incorrect Math Man - this thing is going to end badly for the ComedianEX and LBMA - jump in The JPMorgue if you believe other

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 17:30 | 997936 lieutenantjohnchard
lieutenantjohnchard's picture

ok. i'm stupid. so help me understand. if there's no price supression what will be the driver to have a 40% retrace in 4 months time, or june 21st by your prediction?

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 17:27 | 997966 tradewithdave
tradewithdave's picture

Indeed you are correct sir on both the cost of production and the cause of backwardation.  The cause of the backwardation was, in my opinion, a one time opportunity of disintermediation (ala the Starsky & Hutch Huggy Bear pimping) in conjunction with Monday's holiday attack on the Comex.  It will be manifest however in the formation of new and innovative direct marketing strategies by the miners as they come to understand the paper issuers of ETF's are not their customers, or at least not proportionately, to their influence exerted in the past on their fractional purchases.  The losers will be in the end the direct marketers resulting in increased market friction and delivery interruptions.

Dave Harrison

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 17:36 | 998005 lieutenantjohnchard
lieutenantjohnchard's picture

i think you might be right regarding the paper market and the distribution of silver. what will the pricing look like between the mines for investor purchases with a less influential comex, or am i answering my own question?

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 17:36 | 998008 Dr. Gonzo
Dr. Gonzo's picture

It costs $1000 to get an oz of gold out the ground. It don't cost no $5 to get silver out! If it did everyone would buy a pick and shovel and get it themselves. You are on crack! Maybe after a big mining operation puts a 100 million $$ into a project they can cost volume average the silver ore with the copper and come up that figure since silver mined mostly comes as a by-product.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 20:32 | 998583 strannick
strannick's picture


Does your boss know you're using his car as your icon? If you're sneaky maybe you can see where he stashes his silver. If you are polite, maybe he'll give you the symbols of the silver juniors he's buying. Its what smart, rich people do. You should try it!

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 17:03 | 997897 tradewithdave
tradewithdave's picture

What's going on here?  I thought everyone was buddies with Bart.  Are you guys turning on the friendliest guy inside the Beltway.  Here's the link to the "rhymes with Bart" CFTC file:

Dave Harrison

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 17:10 | 997919 MiguelitoRaton
MiguelitoRaton's picture


Please impose reasonable position limits for silver contracts, around say 1,500. The current limit of 5,000 is simply too high given the size of the global market for silver production. Your job is to provide a fair market, to level the playing field for all investors. By allowing large speculative positions you are undermining that objective. Raising margin requirements during volatile times is fine, but it largely impacts the individual, not the large institutions with deeper pockets. But to then allow large speculative positions simply contradicts increases in margin requirements, making the market more volatile and it ONLY favors the largest institutions. Please make the market fair for all.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 17:20 | 997939 skwareman
skwareman's picture


Thank you for submitting your comment to the Commodity Futures Trading Commission. Please check your e-mail for important information regarding your comment.


Mathman; Can you show me where to dig up silver? I'll even dig it up for two bucks... LOL

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 17:21 | 997947 mberry8870
mberry8870's picture

It's not only position limits it is also what you define as speculative and what you define as a hedge. This is much more art than science.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 17:24 | 997953 InconvenientCou...
InconvenientCounterParty's picture

I gave them a piece of my mind.

signed: Mr. Silver U. Bichez!

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 17:39 | 998020 Dr. Gonzo
Dr. Gonzo's picture

I wrote to them that rumors of illegal cash settlements by the alleged perpetrators were unsettling to me and were making me loose confidence that they were running an honest exchange.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 17:37 | 998014 frippy
frippy's picture

All of you losers who can't take 3 minutes to fill out the damn form and click 'Submit' ought to be ashamed of yourselves.

Don't ever come in here and bitch about corruption again.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 17:42 | 998033 Iam Rich
Iam Rich's picture


Saudi Arabia can pull oil out of the ground at $5/barrel.  Last time I checked, they could get over $100/barrel for it.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 17:56 | 998076 Troy Ounce
Troy Ounce's picture

I presume this letter is for US citizens only?

I am sure a few zillion non-Americans would like to send letters also!

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 18:09 | 998109 Marc45
Marc45's picture

I've been enjoying the manipulation.  Silver is in a bull market.  When you see a drop like yesterday, don't walk, run to your computer and buy more silver.  What then happened today?  I rest my case :)

Attempts at manipulation almost always end badly (but good for silver holders)

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 18:16 | 998135 strannick
strannick's picture

One of the CFTC's biggest sins, in addition to the obvious ones of being JPMorgan's hand puppet, is that they have so strained the patience of a long suffering patriot like Ted Butler.

Letter submitted to CFTC on Silver and Gold price suppression

As I read of the endemic financial corruption and accompanying regulatory uselessness throughout the internet and in books like 'The Big Short', I have to laugh when Ted Butler urges his readers to dutifully write the CFTC to request an imposision of position limits in regards to JPMorgan et al's silver manipulation which he rightfully calls a 'crime in progress'.

I have written CFTC Commisioners numerous times and got no response.

When I read Judge Painter's revelation that he and the other CFTC Judge were urged by the then-CFTC Chairman to side against plaintifs, I just shrugged my shoulders, as it seemed consistent with CFTC inactions regarding on-going metals manipulation.

I think the CFTC's ongoing obfuscation and filibustering of meaningful regulation regarding metals manipulation perfectly fits the tradition of 'see no evil' that the SEC and CFTC have long practiced, which has enabled financial institutions such as DeutscheBank, JPMorgan, GoldmanSachs, ect., to corrupt our financial system, and to bring about the inflation throughout the world which causes people to riot and starve.

I believe your inaction doesnt simply enrich banks, though I can only imagine the teary-eyed pleas banker lobbyists bring before CFTC predicting how the sky will fall if they arent allowed to continue to manipulate metals prices. Metals manipulation enables inflation and allows government to deceive it's citizens that all is well. Meanwhile the world burns will the CFTC fiddles around.

In case this sounds like alot of hysterical hyperbole to you, below is a sampling of what Presidents from the Revolutionary War to modern times have said of the importance of properly valuating gold and silver

The refusal of King George 3 to allow the colonies to operate an honest money system, which freed the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, was probably the prime cause of the American revolution                                                                                                                                                                                                           American Revolutionary, Ben Franklin

All the perplexities, confusion and distresses in America arise not from defects in the Constitution or confederation, nor from want of honor or virtue, as much from downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit, and circulation."                                                                                                                                                                                             2nd President, John Adams

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. The modern theory of the perpetuation of debt has drenched the earth with blood, and crushed its inhabitants under burdens ever accumulating.  Paper is the ghost of money, and not money itself. If a nation can issue a dollar bond, it can issue a dollar bill. That which makes the bond good makes the bill good.                                                                                                                                                                                    
3rd President, Thomas Jefferson

History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and its issuance.                                                                                                                                  
4th President, James Madison

If congress has the right under the Constitution to issue paper money, it was given them to use themselves, not to be delegated to individuals or corporations. The bold efforts the present (Central) Bank had made to control the government are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it. I am one of those who do not believe that a national debt is a national blessing, but rather a curse to a republic; inasmuch as it is calculated to raise around the administration a moneyed aristocracy dangerous to the liberties of the country. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out and by the grace of the Eternal God, I will rout you out.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 7th President, Andrew Jackson (First President elected by the Democrat Party)

The Government should create, issue, and circulate all the currency and credits needed to satisfy the spending power of the Government and the buying power of consumers. By the adoption of these principles, the taxpayers will be saved immense sums of interest. Money will cease to be master and become the servant of humanity.                                                                                                                                                                 
16th President, Abraham Lincoln

Issue of currency should be lodged with the government and be protected from domination by Wall Street. We are opposed to provisions which would place our currency and credit system in private hands.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   26th President, Theodore Roosevelt

I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 28th President, Woodrow Wilson

The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the large centers has owned
the government ever since the days of Andrew Jackson.
32nd President, Franklin D. Roosevelt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Silver has become too valuable to use as money.
36th President, Lyndon Johnson


Fri, 02/25/2011 - 22:57 | 998903 tellsometruth
tellsometruth's picture

Great post...the truth will set us all free, and we are on the ride side of history

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 18:35 | 998194 gousnavy
gousnavy's picture

My understanding of the silver, and other exchange traded markets, is as follows. Hedgers transfer risk to speculators. Speculators accept risk from hedgers. Speculators also speculate against each other, up to the current 5000 contract position limit. Another point, the known supply of physical silver has limits. The supply of futures contracts (a derivative) does not. A hypothetical open interest of say, one trillion contracts in silver vs its known physcial supply, should raise questions. Speculator position size plays a large role in what I call the derivative-underlying, price disconnect. In a normal market arbitrageurs are supposed to come into the market and prevent the derivative and underlying price from getting out of line by facilitating the convergence of the two. But with leverage, low margins, and high position limits, arbitrageurs are asking why should I do an almost risk free, but low reward trade when I can -- and here's the point -- keep adding contracts on the bid or ask, as the case may be, and make more money? Why beat 'em when I can make more money by joining 'em? This behavior, which we are now seeing more of, causes an "extreme" divergence between derivative pricing and the underlying asset. This is the disconnect (uncoupling) I mentioned above. The derivative market assumes a life of its own (ie. its own supply and demand features) and bears less and less of a relationship between the forces of the underlying's, supply and demand features. I can rember when the Saudi Oil Minister said, "I don't know why oil is $160.00 a barrel. It only costs us $60.00 to produce." One would think he would know a thing or two about world supply. And by the way, total market demand doesn't go up two hundred percent in say three months and fall faster. In other words, fundamental determinants of price didn't change that much. We are seeing more and more of this "uncoupling" phenomenon these days. Prices paid by the little guy (me) are based on the derivative price and not the underlying. In a normal market setting this would be fine, but "excessive position limits" cause price divergence from the fundamental supply and demand forces that determine price, which is/can be disruptive. I don't know what the ideal position limit should be. The answer might be the position limit where markets would "uncouple' less. I don't have enough formal training to suggest that a position limit in silver of say 1500 contracts is better than say 2000 like others have said. On the other hand, and for the reasons stated above, I believe 5000 contracts is ripe for silver market mischief -- uncoupling (aka speculative excess).

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 18:55 | 998283 buzlightening
buzlightening's picture

Regulators, regulating at the CFTC? Life in the graveyard!!  All are dead! All do nothin!  A corpse is excused! The CFTC?  Great pretenders among the dead!! Oscar goes to the corpse for genuine nothingness!!

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 19:20 | 998386 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Writing letters to these corrupt regulatory agencies is an exercise in futility. Keep buying physical silver and bring down this den of corruption...

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 20:00 | 998512 Dburn
Dburn's picture

The joke about the dem congress in 2007, after Pelosi said if they won "They would clean out the swamp".  Cleaning out the swamp to a Dem is a sternly worded letter with no follow-up.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 19:22 | 998394 Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture

Dear CFTC,

Silver has recovered since the last beat down... thanks to you. Assholes.




Fri, 02/25/2011 - 19:57 | 998491 Dburn
Dburn's picture

I hope people read the bios of the Commisioners

Chairman Gensler had this little gem three of four paragraphs down

Prior to joining Treasury, Chairman Gensler worked for 18 years at Goldman Sachs, where he was selected as a partner; in his last role he was Co-head of Finance.

Maybe it's just me, but this smells like a giant steaming dog turd and as you can see I have more familiarity with dog turds than most. Let me tell you this particular turd was an anus buster. Somehow I think the status quo will change when JPM is good and ready.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 20:24 | 998564 strannick
strannick's picture

Maybe instead of emailing the CFTC -I wonder if even 1% of the submissions get read? -the CFTC Commisioners should be polled here at ZH.

CFTC Commisioners;

After yesterday's farcical whipsaw action orchestrated by JPMorgan with unbacked paper to knock options holders out of excersizing into futures contracts, the debate in the precious metals community is whether you overlook such blatant manipulation because:

a) you are corrupt

b) you are stupid

c) you are lazy

d) you are relying on precedence since the CFTC has only one instance of prosecution for manipulation in 35 years

Please respond below...

Commisioner Dunn?

Commisioner OMalia?

Commisioner Sommers?

Commisioner Chilton? - excused

Chairman Gensler?

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 21:06 | 998687 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

The CFTC people probably read those emails, like once every year or two, and chuckle a little bit.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 21:40 | 998762 Silversinner
Silversinner's picture

I totally agree with the opinion it will probably be useless

to write,but I as a non U.S citizen will write anyway just

out of respect for mr Butler.Will just say how greatly concerned

I am about the markets in U.S.A bla,bla,bla.

Using a new avatar,do not know if anyone is using this

image and if so object to me using it,please let me know.


Fri, 02/25/2011 - 21:51 | 998784 Joe Grannville
Joe Grannville's picture

I'm on it like a bum on a baloney sandwich.

Fri, 02/25/2011 - 22:45 | 998885 dalkrin
dalkrin's picture

Left a forceful, to the point comment for their reading enjoyment.  It took 1 minute.  Come next paycheck I will keep buying physical silver to force the issue to rear its head at the Comex when delivery time comes a knocking.

Sat, 02/26/2011 - 03:39 | 999309 Santiago Ramon ...
Santiago Ramon y Cajal's picture

On it, posted and sent.

Sat, 02/26/2011 - 09:42 | 999506 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Dear Chairman Gensler and fellow Commissioners:

Please establish reasonable position limits to a number of contracts that is equivalent to less than 20% of the actual physical supply available in the previous trading year (e.g. < 1000 contracts for silver). Allowing purely speculative positions which are greater than the possible supply that can be physically delivered is tantamount to condoning market manipulation and defeats the purpose of the futures market entirely.

Respectfully submitted,

snowball777 (no, I didn't use my handle in the form)

Sat, 02/26/2011 - 12:22 | 999669 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

sent 2/24/2001 to Bart Chilton....


Bart -

i know u saw the action n the only 2 forms of real money yesterday...
how do u guys live with urselfs...
i include u now because u know whats happening but still remain a member of this worthless entity...
the fact that u have not resigned amidst the fraud and blown the whistle smells of complicity...
have a good one..........

Mon, 03/07/2011 - 01:11 | 1025331 Thomas Sabo Bracelet
Thomas Sabo Bracelet's picture

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