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TEPCO Admits To Another Cover Up As Radioactivity In Seawater Near Fukushima Soars To 1,251 Above Legal Limit

Tyler Durden's picture


The latest news out of Fukushima confirms fears that irradiated water containment at the radioactive plant has been complete breached, after Radioactive iodine-131 at a concentration 1,250.8 times the legal limit was detected Friday morning in a seawater sample taken around 330 meters south of the plant, near the drainage outlets of the four troubled reactors, the government's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said Saturday. As Kyodo updates: "The level rose to its highest so far in the survey begun this week,
after remaining around levels about 100 times the legal limit. It is
highly likely that radioactive water in the plant has found its way into
the sea, TEPCO said." It's all good though: the government has a prepared strawman for this unprecedented surge in radioactivity as well."Radioactive materials ''will be significantly diluted'' by the time they are consumed by marine species, the agency said, adding it would not have a significant impact on fishery products as fishing is not being conducted in the area within 20 kilometers of the plant because the government has issued a directive for residents in the zone to evacuate." But none of this matter as we get the latest confirmation that no news coming out of the stricken plant can be trusted: "TEPCO's Fukushima office acknowledged Saturday that it had known earlier that the radiation in the underground level of the turbine building of one of the reactors was extremely high, but had not made the information available to pertinent parties."

From Reuters: " Officials said iodine 131 levels in seawater 30 km (19 miles) from the coastal nuclear complex were within acceptable limits established by regulations and the contamination posed little risk to aquatic life. "Ocean currents will disperse radiation particles and so it will be very diluted by the time it gets consumed by fish and seaweed," said Hidehiko Nishiyama, a senior official from Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency. Despite that reassurance, the disclosure may well heighten international concern over Japanese seafood exports. Several countries have already banned milk and produce from areas around the Fukushima Daiichi plant, while others have been monitoring Japanese seafood." So fear not - instead of having 10 fins, that yummy piece of toro you are injesting will sport only a substantially "diluted" 5. Also, expect to see Kan eating seaweed and sashimi,  and washing it down with radioactive tap water on TV any minute to prove just how safe everything really is.

More from Kyodo:

The level rose to its highest so far in the survey begun this week, after remaining around levels about 100 times the legal limit. It is highly likely that radioactive water in the plant has found its way into the sea, TEPCO said.

Radioactive materials ''will be significantly diluted'' by the time they are consumed by marine species, the agency said, adding it would not have a significant impact on fishery products as fishing is not being conducted in the area within 20 kilometers of the plant because the government has issued a directive for residents in the zone to evacuate.

TEPCO is planning to inject fresh water into pools storing the spent nuclear fuel at the plant to prevent crystallized salt from seawater already injected from hampering the smooth circulation of water and thus diminishing the cooling effect. It has begun injecting fresh water into the reactor containers of the No. 1 and No. 3 as well as No. 2 reactors.

At the same time, the company is trying to remove the pools of water containing highly concentrated radioactive substances that may have seeped from either the reactor cores or the spent fuel pools.

On Thursday, three workers were exposed to water containing radioactive materials 10,000 times the normal level at the turbine building connected to the No. 3 reactor building.

On Friday, a pool of water with a similarly high concentration of radioactive materials was found in the No. 1 reactor's turbine building, causing some restoration work to be suspended.

Similar pools of water were also found in the turbine buildings of the No. 2 and No. 4 reactors, measuring up to 1 meter and 80 centimeters deep, respectively. Those near the No. 1 and No. 3 reactors were up to 40 cm and 1.5 meters deep, respectively.

And the most dramatic example of strategic idiocy: all the hoopla about dumping tons of water on the reactors will now have to be undone:

While analyzing the radioactivity levels of the pools from the water found in the No. 2 and No. 4 reactors, TEPCO will remove the water in all four reactor units to reduce the risk of more workers being exposed to radioactive substances, it said.

The risk would hinder efforts to restore the plant's crippled cooling functions, which are crucial to overcoming the crisis, the government's nuclear safety agency said.

But the most infuriating development is the latest disclosure from TEPCO that once again it covered up critical data.

TEPCO's Fukushima office acknowledged Saturday that it had known earlier that the radiation in the underground level of the turbine building of one of the reactors was extremely high, but had not made the information available to pertinent parties.

Edano criticized the utility's handling of the data, saying unless it reports necessary information to authorities in a timely manner, ''the government will not be able to give appropriate instructions and (TEPCO) will make workers, and eventually the public, distrustful'' of the firm.

So aside from the constant lies and misinformation, the public can be assued that all is well.


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Sat, 03/26/2011 - 10:29 | 1102675 Golden monkey
Golden monkey's picture

Fuckin con men are everywhere now.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 10:39 | 1102707 A Man without Q...
A Man without Qualities's picture

Yes, the propaganda is flowing from everywhere.  This article on the BBC made me want to hunt down the author and kick him in the testicles very hard.  I wonder how much research funding he gets from the nuclear industry?

The other comment was that the Iodine was ok, because "the radiation will no longer be a risk after eight days, officials say".  Total cunts, how stupid do they think we are?

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 10:50 | 1102737 Judge Judy Scheinlok
Judge Judy Scheinlok's picture

No doubt. How could a Russian ship pull into port in Russia last Wednesday and get put into quarantine if levels at sea are acceptable. I doubt that ship was cursing anywhere near a 19 mile radius. The crew was Russian and I'm sure they remember their history.

"Russia checks ship after radiation found
Posted Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:28pm AEDT
Russia is checking a cargo ship that arrived in its Far East with radiation levels three times the norm after passing close to Japan's quake-damaged Fukushima nuclear plant."

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 11:17 | 1102817 herewego...
herewego...'s picture

Yawn. From your MSM article:

"However officials have insisted there is no sign of radiation in the region exceeding normal levels, a position reaffirmed by Mr Onishchenko."

Read this instead:

Fukushima scaremongers becoming increasingly desperate

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 11:30 | 1102849 polizeros
polizeros's picture

On the 14th he said everything was fine just fine.

"Fukushima is a triumph for nuke power: Build more reactors now!

The unfolding Fukushima story has enormously strengthened the case for advanced nations - including Japan - to build more nuclear powerplants, in the knowledge that no imaginable disaster can result in serious problems."

Since events have proven him to be utterly wrong it can only be concluded that he is a pimp for the nuclear industry or a fool.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 11:30 | 1102858 Golden monkey
Golden monkey's picture

Both pimp and fool. Nothing unusual there.

New normal.

Sun, 03/27/2011 - 09:16 | 1105115 Heroic Couplet
Heroic Couplet's picture

Progress Energy detects radioactive iodine in South Carolina and Florida but at levels too low to warrant public health concern:

Sun, 03/27/2011 - 09:36 | 1105140 pods
pods's picture

Thanks for that article HC.  I am about 5 miles downwind of their Harris plant.  Never thought that it would be a bonus, but if anyone is going to pick up radiation, it will be the plants themselves.

If you will excuse me............

<shuffles off to find bottle of KI>


Sun, 03/27/2011 - 10:49 | 1105230 hamurobby
hamurobby's picture

Thanks! I just settled (won) an arguement with that little tid bit. ONE DAY she will listen to me....gasp.


Funny how they "knew" radiation levels were real high at the fukushima plant, yet earlier this week they said they couldnt measure the radiation levels because there was no power to the plant. We should be asking tebco, WELL WHICH IS IT?

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 12:10 | 1102866 herewego...
herewego...'s picture

Glad you read it. Also read bits from this:

He is only innacurate if you take your scientific opinions from those that wish to increase page views, rather than actual scientists. None of these frightened bunnies actually has any scientific proof to back up the rather random assertions of nuclear death to scores, if they did they could list. The 'but nuculeary stuff is scary an' I don't unnerstand, maybe it could do this or do that or' cause radiation sickness in those across the largest body of water for light years around (the facking Pacific fer christsakes) just doesn't cut it when-

The real story remains: 10,000 dead, 10,000 missing, 100,000s homeless and grieving loved ones.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 12:17 | 1102975 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Now isn't that interesting.

You have been registered here on ZH for 39 weeks. Yet you never posted a comment until you posted just a single one nearly 5 weeks ago. Then comes a flurry of 14 articles over the last 10 days where you commented exclusively on Tyler's posts about Fukushima. And all of them dismissive. Sounds like your ID was archived a while back and only recently activated to push disinformation.

You have been outed as an operative. Have a nice day.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 12:18 | 1102984 taraxias
taraxias's picture


Nice catch CD. I knew this one wouldn't get passed you.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 14:15 | 1103266 Thomas
Thomas's picture

OMG It's Decker!

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 12:21 | 1102994 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

I just think his/her/its avatar is creepy.  What is that, a chess piece made out of radioactive Jell-O?

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 12:30 | 1103018 herewego...
herewego...'s picture

I've also commented on China, as I'm in the region - thus my interest.

I like ur excellent posts on silver etc. We both know that physics isn't your strong suit, but, do you have anything scientific to add?

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 12:58 | 1103081 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

You do understand that anyone registered here on ZH can track anyone else's comment history....right? You are exposed for what you are, regardless of what you claim to be. Dump the dead body you're currently occupying and pull a fresh one out of storage.

And don't be so sloppy next time. Professional disinformation organizations and psyops programs exercise their registered ID's and Avatars on a regular basis so that they can't be easily exposed when they're activated for a specific purpose. It's professional disinfo/psyops 101.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 13:27 | 1103156 malikai
malikai's picture

Bot, troll, psyop, whatever. There is one valid point to his/her/its diatribes. People have been focusing on the radiological contamination/meltdown/etc while many thousands have died due to the tsunami itself. The Japanese government lied. This is no surprise, they have been doing it for years and this event will not end the practice of government coverups, of which the Japanese do not have a monopoly.

It is somewhat disturbing our focus on the fukushima situation when real, actual, people need help and are still dying due to the tsunami and its knock-on effects. Yet, not one person has died due to the reactor meltdowns. I don't want to downplay the fukushima situation and the very real risk of absolute catastrophe it presents, but by focusing on that alone, we ignore the already occured and ongoing catastrophe.

I wonder, how many people on the hedge have contributed anything to help the victoms in Japan? Has anybody given a penny to the red cross for support? Has anybody contributed anything other than this ongoing criticism towards TEPCO? Whether they are doing the right things or not, they are at least doing something. What are we doing?

Shame on us for dealing with this like we are yelling at the TV during sunday night football.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 14:16 | 1103271 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

I hate to sound callous, but would anyone donate their debt-money/FRN's to an agency that takes x% off the top, especially when the Japanese government is essentially printing trillions of yen? Governments (through their privately-owned central banks) borrow money created out of thin air, further indebting their citizens. This creates inflation, further robbing the citizens. It's a triple whammy.

If the government stayed out of it, it would be a totally different story.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 14:21 | 1103287 malikai
malikai's picture

This is the "let government take care of it" fallacy. Where we stand now is the result. As long as we keep believing that its the government's job to fix our problems, nothing will ever change.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 14:26 | 1103298 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

Um, I'm actually making the opposite argument. But as long as the Japanese government is borrowing money created out of thin air, why should people donate money they have actually 'earned'?

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 15:06 | 1103374 malikai
malikai's picture

Because while you and I may argue with our government over inflation, people are still dying in Japan. We were organizing relief missions to Haiti by the boatload. Two former puppets in chief, Bush and Clinton went to Haiti to take pictures. We have had not one attempt by our current puppet in cheif or any of his predecessors to pay any mind to the matter in Japan.

I guess we don't care unless its third worlders dying. And even then, only when its politically or economically benefitial to the PTB.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 16:19 | 1103576 jonjon831983
jonjon831983's picture

Watch video of Bush doing picture time with Clinton in Haiti

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 21:29 | 1104264 The Profit Prophet
The Profit Prophet's picture

Why any fool would donate their hard earned money to a government that now prints as much as it needs is beyond insane!!!

T.E.I.N. everyone!

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 14:19 | 1103279 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

From personal experience I have to say that the Red Cross has become a political organization, and rather crooked too.

I strongly urge donations be made via the Salvation Army.  They are the last true international charity that I know of.

Help the Japanese People

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 14:56 | 1103346 malikai
malikai's picture

You're probably right. I had an epiphany and didn't really consider where to donate or their political associations.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 13:50 | 1103205 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

No, not whatever. I've been here since nearly the beginning. This is my community as well as yours. I value my community and psyops and disinformation operatives devalue and destroy my community. Whatever doesn't cut it. Maybe you don't mind someone coming in and pissing all over your floor but I do.

The Japanese government lied. This is no surprise, they have been doing it for years and this event will not end the practice of government coverups, of which the Japanese do not have a monopoly.

So do you think the Japanese government is telling the truth about the earthquake and tsunami? So they would lie about the nuclear disaster, but not about the natural one? Of course the natural disaster in Japan is horrible, terrible and a dozen other words I could use to describe it. But don't beat on the ZH reader for what the blog publisher does or doesn't focus on. BTW we in the rest of the world are lied to every time the Japanese government lies to its own people. Global village and all. What goes down in Fukushima can and does effect everyone else in the world.

It is somewhat disturbing our focus on the fukushima situation when real, actual, people need help and are still dying due to the tsunami and its knock-on effects.

To assume or guess about ZH readers action or inaction regarding charitable giving or anything else towards the Japanese earthquake and tsunami based upon comments left here is beyond a stretch. Well beyond. You have no idea what people have or have not done based upon the comments they leave.

I estimate 85% to 90% of the people who read ZH never leave a single comment and most of them are not even registered. So are you speaking for them as well? The people who leave comments here are a small minority of the total number who read ZH. A very small minority.

The focus of this blog of the world of personal, corporate and governmental lies and subterfuge. What's going on at Fukushima is a focused example of what's going on in the world on a daily basis. This blog is not a general news outlet.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 14:09 | 1103257 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

I see ZH as focused even more specifically on tail risk, and the lies, scams and contortions that substitute for robust responses to risk.

Fukushima is the ultimate tail event.  Wasn't supposed to happen.  But for institutions to say 'whoa got no plan, guess we're all toast (especially you peons)' when inevitable tail events occur is unecessary, antidemocratic and needs to be witnessed and shamed (at least).

Black swans blotting out the no reason, got no why...might as well extend the lie...habits cost you, then you die.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 14:24 | 1103294 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Cognitive Dissonance

Antithesis moving toward synthesis. Say there are x sockpuppet posters, they post a range of things from the absurd to the realtively normal. They then start nudging opinions from all directions into a nice little consensus.

Not only that but newbies or oldtimers see the strange shit, Racism/UFO's did it/Violence and either stop coming or shake their heads at the devolution.

That demeans the message.

It also allows for information to be taken on those who agree with shit like violent overthrow.

Ever read the posts where two argue but it seems like the same person taking both sides?

Right now you can catch the Psyop or Paid Poster because they have minimal nuance. But they have been getting better. And they will continue to massage their stances until you can't filter them from the "real" people.

Anyway I think they ZH stance is similar to this (the reason I enjoy vistiing)

"None of us are going to deny what other people are doing. If saying bullshit is somebody's thing, then he says bullshit. If somebody is an ass-kicker, then that's what he's going to do on this trip, kick asses. He's going to do it right out front and nobody is going to have anything to get pissed off about. He can just say, 'I'm sorry I kicked you in the ass, but I'm not sorry I'm an ass-kicker. That's what I do, I kick people in the ass.' Everybody is going to be what they are, and whatever they are, there's not going to be anything to apologize about. What we are, we're going to wail with on this whole trip."
Tom Wolfe (The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test)

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 14:39 | 1103319 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

The techniques used are very sophisticated to childish depending upon their intent. Professional psyops and disinformation is a highly refined art that has been used for thousands of years. But over the last 60 years, with the help of psychological testing and experimentation and the advent of the advertising age, the techniques have been sharpened to a fine edge.

And yes I read all posts carefully and I see two, three, even four posters talking to him or herself, meaning one person or entity is controlling them all, even to the point where an "argument" is created to drag others in. However, it's extremely difficult for anyone other than an expert to hide subtle telltale signs in common such as words, phrases and even punctuation. But there is now software to help with that as well.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 19:27 | 1103936 bigkahuna
bigkahuna's picture

I got your back :)

Sun, 03/27/2011 - 00:32 | 1104650 trav7777
trav7777's picture

you are both quite obviously psyops.

I mean, the cleverness of masquerading as dissidents in order to assist "TPTB" in rounding up lists of sympathetic persons is just so brilliant that it could only be a psyops operation

Sun, 03/27/2011 - 01:16 | 1104732 Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

Now I am worried.

Sun, 03/27/2011 - 01:18 | 1104736 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Is that the pot calling the tablecloth black?

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 14:54 | 1103351 malikai
malikai's picture

I agree with you on all points. I got a little carried away during an epiphany. I still feel shameful about this and am doing something about it now. People there need help and if I have to steal a king air, load it up with medical supplies, and fly it there myself, I'm going to do something about it.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 15:24 | 1103409 US Uncut
US Uncut's picture

Contribute to the Red Cross? That is a SURE Way to waste your money. There is NO guarantee that the money you donate will go to Japan. And if Haiti is any shinning example of what happens when hard working people donate money, then it's not worth it to donate. Seriously.But if you most, find a much more worthy organization than the Red Cross. 

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 16:56 | 1103683 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

No, Yoko Ono was on CNN a few days after the quake and said Red Cross is the way to go.  She was very convincing.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 22:50 | 1104467 cbxer55
cbxer55's picture

Yoko Ono could not convince me to buy a John Lennon record.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 22:42 | 1104443 vh070
vh070's picture

Load is about ten percent, the volunteer to staff ratio is high, and the appeals are targeted for specific crises. Lowish four figures from me. Some of it will probably go to Pacific Islands affected by the tsunami.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 19:39 | 1103955 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

In my estimation, World Vision is better than the Red Cross:

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 13:54 | 1103225 Oligarchs Gone Wild
Oligarchs Gone Wild's picture

I postulate that CD actually registered the herewego UID himself.  That way he could continue to educate the ZH community in unique and interesting stories that played out interlaced within current events.

Much like this isn't the only nom de plume that I use either.  Internet is more fun with team theta.

Love from behind another VPN tunnel on dial-up from Peru,

we are all tyler durden

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 14:10 | 1103258 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Postulate all you like kind sir. CD is my only ID. I have nothing to hide and I speak openly and clearly. On the other hand, to admit that you feel the need to use several IDs raises all kinds of questions.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 14:19 | 1103280 Oligarchs Gone Wild
Oligarchs Gone Wild's picture

Thanks for what you do CD.  You're one of the few who make showing up worth the time.

Sun, 03/27/2011 - 00:33 | 1104660 trav7777
trav7777's picture

dude, you are so clearly a psyop

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 13:53 | 1103221 Dan Duncan
Dan Duncan's picture

herewego has linked to an article with possibly legitimate arguments against the "hysteria" surrounding Fukushima. 

All CogDis has done is to come back with an ad hominem circumstantial response.

Besides failing to address the issue at hand ("Is the media overstating Fukushima risks?")...your underlying premise is absurd.  So...herewego got on ZH 39 weeks ago, lying in wait for the 9.0 richter earthquake, the tsunami and subsequent nuclear meltdown...and BAM!  Here's his chance to comment exclusively on Fukushima.  Yeah, OK...[And if you're not saying this, then wtf are you saying?  Because here's what I'm saying:  This guy got on ZH 39 weeks ago, and read the stuff and when this story hit, he felt like he knew a little something, he disagreed with Tyler's coverage...and so he responsed accordingly.  So what?]

And even if this guy does have a bias, it doesn't mean he's wrong.   

The article he linked to states that workers were exposed to radiation doses of 170 millisievert.  It goes on to say:  "None of this involves significant health hazards: actual radiation sickness is not normally seen until a dose of 1,000 millisievert and is not common until 2,000. Additional cancer risk is tiny: huge numbers of people must be subjected to such doses in order to see any measurable health consequences. In decades to come, future investigators will almost certainly be unable to attribute any cases of cancer to service at Fukushima." 

Now I don't know if this is accurate, but if so it represents a compelling counter-argument to Tyler's coverage, regardless of bias.    If it's not accurate, then OK, fine, herewego should STFU.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 13:59 | 1103242 taraxias
taraxias's picture

And I suppose you think that by adding "If it's not accurate, then OK, fine, herewego should STFU" your post comes across as being fair and balanced.

Push your card down the street, no one is buying what you are selling here.

Sun, 03/27/2011 - 01:24 | 1104743 Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

... then the wingman flying cover flies in and crashes in the same flaming heap.

Too funny.

Note to taraxias my man - change it to cart. IMO.  But yeah, no one's buying.


Sat, 03/26/2011 - 14:06 | 1103252 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

You really should do some research into the subject of disinfo and psyops. IDs and Avatars are stockpiled for future use on any subject the company is hired to act upon. A very public disclosure of these techniques was done by The Washington Post. They did a big series called "Top Secret America" on how private companies are moving big into all aspects of disinfo and psyops. There have also been many magazine articles and dozens of books written on the subject. It is naive to think this isn't going on.

It is well know that much of what government did before is now done by corporations precisely because they can get around secrecy and public disclosure laws. Plus private companies will create disinfo campaigns for other corporations. For example, you don't think the nuclear industry is just sitting on their hands at this moment do you? And BP and the rest of the oil industry didn't sit around when the GOM disaster was you?

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 14:42 | 1103325 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

I've been telling people here that Operation Sock Puppet (or variations on the theme) is alive and in real time now, and I honestly believe most forums, including here at Zero Hedge, are now targetted by those working for governmental and quasi-governmental agencies, in an attempt to counteract and neutralize dissemination of anything that flows opposite of the 'official party line.'

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 18:11 | 1103811 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

it only surprises me that it happens as little as it does on ZH

youtube was rampant with it in the comments around certain topics/vids, such as 911

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 20:33 | 1104084 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

You only think it happens so little here because the techniques used are much more sophisticated. Sophisticated tools for a sophisticated audience. The brain power here on ZH is at times breath taking and crude techniques like those used on youtube would be transparent. In fact, when you see something like that here it's often intended to be a diversion, a magnet used to draw attention from what going on somewhere else. 

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 21:48 | 1104322 The Profit Prophet
The Profit Prophet's picture

Fully agree CD.....this place is now rampant with dis-jockeys of all shapes and colors.  The quad 7 crew (Trav & Ident) are two possibles that come to mind.  Then there's Krugman of course (MCT).  Sniffing these idiots out is a great way to pass time. 

T.E.I.N. everyone!

Sun, 03/27/2011 - 00:43 | 1104673 trav7777
trav7777's picture

ROTFL...if you only knew why I had 4 7s...

you paranoids are morons...or psyops.

You guys are so mindfucked that the truth seems like disinformation to you.  CD is a psyop to ferret out all of the paranoid PM and anti-gov types.  He posts frequently because he knows that by doing so he can defuse any suspicion of his motives.  I mean, it's a classic psyops tactic.

the government routinely employs people at high levels in organizations in order to steer them toward other dissidents.  What better way than to catalog all of those who distrust the government than to have a paid psyop write long-winded articles which draw potential State enemies like flies to honey?

In the majority of the recent "terrorist plots" a majority of the people involved in the plot were government agents.  Psyops like CD are incredibly useful in maintaining surveillance and keeping tabs on potential State threats, just like how they pay incendiary clerics in mosques to both agitate with terrorist and anti-west rhetoric and then at the same time provide lists of sympathizers.

Sun, 03/27/2011 - 06:35 | 1104962 The Profit Prophet
The Profit Prophet's picture

This is my last response to you...

You can tell the nature of the tree by the fruit it keep posting the disinfo Dis-Jockey!

T.E.I.N. everyone!

Sun, 03/27/2011 - 09:25 | 1105126 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Are you finally smoking your stash? If so, that's some good gear you've got there!

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 15:08 | 1103383 malikai
malikai's picture

That is one of the most enlightening series available. Although I would also recommend reading a bit of Noam Chomsky as well, starting with "Manufacturing Consent".

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 19:08 | 1103915 Dingleberry Jones
Dingleberry Jones's picture

I have only made it halfway through the first video, but OMG this is awesome stuff. Really awesome stuff. Thank you for resharing.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 19:20 | 1103928 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

I can see why it's not part of the Dept. of Education's approved curriculum. Convince the masses that consumption is happiness and they will remain confused and too absorbed to wonder if life could be any different.

Sun, 03/27/2011 - 05:32 | 1104928 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Excellent links ... thanks for posting ... BUT ... watch and listen with mind wide open because there is also a lot of disinformation buried in them (facts combined witn non-sequiturs and contradictions). As expected from the BBC.

It's certainly a sad indictment of democracy (which was probably the objective).

Sun, 03/27/2011 - 08:24 | 1105056 MSimon
MSimon's picture

Startling insight from the first video.


Happy People Are Docile.


And from this the master manipulators get the idea: "The way to control people is to make them happy."



Sat, 03/26/2011 - 18:25 | 1103838 prophet
prophet's picture

me thinks maybe herewego outed you by his "sloppy" pattern of behavior, you've got huge reach and range but I don't recall seeing you in this subject area

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 19:17 | 1103923 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I've commented often on this subject in the threads. In fact I've been attacked nearly every time I've commented on this subject because it is practically taboo. This is one of those subjects no one wants to really talk about in depth for fear of being attacked themselves. In fact I've been advised not to bring it up because then people will begin to attack each other looking for the boogieman. Which is exactly what the psyops people want to happen.

I also written several articles that mention this subject as part of larger subjects, usually psychology or denial and manipulation. However those articles were published before you came to Zero Hedge. And I've written two articles about this subject specifically that I mothballed because I felt they would be divisive and do more harm than good. But over the last 3 or 4 months the trolls, bots, disinfo and psyops operatives are no longer even trying to stay under the radar. They are getting as bold or desperate as the Ponzi is.

And so on.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 22:43 | 1104451 prophet
prophet's picture

Yes, thank you. I recall enjoying the insane asylum pieces.  I will re-read them and the references posted above.  Thank you for taking the time to streamline my interest in your work. 

Sun, 03/27/2011 - 05:10 | 1104715 i-dog
i-dog's picture

"I've been attacked nearly every time I've commented on this subject"

Keep it up ... You only run into flak when you're over the target. ;)

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 14:25 | 1103296 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

"All CogDis has done is to come back with an ad hominem circumstantial response."

This site has been stinking with 'bots' since Fukushima broke. It's time to call the 'bots' out.

"Besides failing to address the issue at hand ("Is the media overstating Fukushima risks?")"

The "issue at hand" is a non-issue and undeserving of further discussion.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 18:43 | 1103867 Banjo
Banjo's picture

Bicycle Repairman:

The problem with outing Bots is that unfortunately we don't know for sure. And makes our community appear paranoid. Let there be bots and lets fight them on facts or our view point as opposed to dismissing them on assumed bot status.

I certainly agree lets raise suspicions but as an earlier poster suggested to have an account dormant and then activate to promote an agenda is not ideal operationally from a credibility perspective.

The "issue at hand" is deserving further discussion and it quite simply remains we as a global community have no accurate, independent and trustworthy knowledge of how bad this nuclear disaster is at Fukushima.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 19:43 | 1103963 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

The bots, trolls and operatives are not here to debate. They aren't here to change a persons view who is already posting opinions here on ZH. They aren't even here to change the minds of the wavering or undecided commenter. They are here to reassure the silent lurker who isn't sure what to believe, but who has begun to wake up and is visiting ZH to see the other side.

These people don't want to believe what we are saying. They don't really want to know the truth. They are here because they have some doubt and they want to be told we are wrong. They want to be convinced that their fears are unfounded. They want to be reassured. They need reassurances. So psyops and disinfo people who spout nonsense or the company/government line are here to tell these people what they want to hear.

They are shepards here to round up the stray sheep who have wandered outside the grazing area and stumbled upon a extremely frightening world. They stray sheep want to be told a lie, to be given permission to continue to believe the lie, to reject what they are hearing here. I understand that many people who comment here on ZH would find this explanation to be ridiculous or just plain crazy. But you are seeing the world through your own eyes and not that of a frightened explorer who wants to go back to sleep. These people are like the little children who in effect are saying "Daddy, tell me another lie so I can believe it's the truth".

This is what happens to those who begin to doubt the system, but don't really want to know the truth. They are bargaining with the truth and they really don't want the lies to end because that would require them to overcome a boat load of cognitive dissonances. And the people who comment here are maybe 10 or 15% of the total people who read ZH. The vast majority are not registered and even those who are registered are just lurkers and never comment. They are the frightened majority and they want to believe......the lies. 

Real people who have registered here on ZH, but have never commented before but decide to do so are often tentative, reluctant and reserved. Those who stayed in the shadows for a long time and then begin to wade in are careful and walk softly. This isn't the case all the time, but it is the majority. They don't have an agenda. So when I come across someone who has been registered for a long time and has been silent, then suddenly comes barrelling in posting strong but narrow opinions that often parrot the status quo, I am deeply suspicious. Because they aren't acting like many psycologically damaged or frightened humans would act. They are acting like operatives would act.

Time to begin a discussion of this subject here on ZH. Because ZH is now infested with operatives and it's getting worse by the day. It's no longer rare but in fact quite common place and ordinary. Unfortunately many people who comment here are naive to psyops campaigns primarily because honest people have a very difficult time imagining other people doing something they would never consider doing themselves. This is why psyops is so effective, because it takes advantage of the average persons good nature, gullibility and naivete.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 20:06 | 1104010 Banjo
Banjo's picture

Cognitive Dissonance:

To me this is a reasonable enough point of view. Further supporting this viewpoint is that there have been admissions of such disinformation operations being run by government authorities.

I would be interested what we could do to protect ourselves from

  1. People/Entities who are paid bot's or trolls. How do we clearly identify these accounts?
  2. How do we as a community of free thinkers not shut down legitimate debate that is counter to our view?

One suggestion I have is that we limit new discussion threads to a percentage variance per week.

If you regularly post less than three comments per week over the past 2/3 months. The most you can post is 4 comments in the new week.

If you regularly post more than ten comments per week over the past 2/3 months. The most you can post is your average over that period plus say 20%-40% additional in the coming week.

If you get junked alot you may get reduced posting privelage back down to the three per week limit. There are clearly many ways of posting articulate and counter opinion that is more likely not to get you junked.

I am happy to read someone argue why bonds or EUD/USD is the place to invest. However three times a week might be more than enough.

Not sure just some thoughts.




Sun, 03/27/2011 - 09:52 | 1105151 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Applying rules, percentages and formulas does not constitute freedom of speech and does not contribute to truth. The HFT bots also comply with rules [limited as those rules are].

Anyone with half a brain can see who the monkeys throwing poop are in the comments section. (Those without half a brain should go back to twittering with their fellow twits). Newbies with honest intentions who are seeking truth (or a better understanding of current events) will also be able to reach the same understanding after a short while.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 20:23 | 1104045 Dingleberry Jones
Dingleberry Jones's picture

I do agree that there seem to be some seriously dubious postings as of the past few months. I don't post often, because I don't really need to. Most of what I'd like to say or argue about has been said already. But I definitely lurk.  There seems to be a whole host of people that are on here to discredit the information and the ideas. 

In my mind, there are two major groups that discredit the info here: Those that try to marginalize and discount anything out of the mainstream and those that are way over the top with the conspiracy theory stuff.  They are the ones that make the people that doubt the spoon fed MSM drivel look crazy because they are lumped in on that side of the spectrum.

WRT addressing the problem, I guess I don't know how one would not engage in a witch hunt when one is looking for witches, but just be careful in how this discussion unfolds. The Tyler collective should have good data on IPs and email accounts. There are ways to correlate accounts to sub-blocks of each ISP.

I like the idea of color coding a person's name tag based on their longevity of an account on the site. And maybe a post count following that.  In that way, a cursory look could indicate whether someone was a noob, a long time lurker with an account, etc... This also gets away from witch hunting which is a time consuming and often unproductive process.



Sat, 03/26/2011 - 20:46 | 1104127 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Banjo and Dindleberry Jones,

For whatever reason, and I could think of half a dozen off the top of my head, Tyler and company have decided from the beginning that ZH would be a blog that is not moderated. And the basic format for commenting has not changed since ZH started except for removing unregistered commenters (supposedly to reduce stress on the server) and increasing the number of junks that will disappear a comment from 10 all the way to 50. Other than that is it a free fire zone and makes it that much more difficult to ferret out the disruptors.

Which means the only thing we can do is educate ourselves to the methods used by the operatives and learn to grow as a community. Too many of us here on ZH who have good intentions also like to stir up some shit for whatever reason, including the ego boost or just frustration. We need to grow as a community because the onslaught is getting worse and it's beginning to threaten the viability of the comment section. Articles on Israel are all but impossible to comment on anymore. Other topics are rapidly becoming such an operative magnet that they will soon turn into shit. We either grow together or hang separately.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 20:55 | 1104152 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

What you say is mostly true except one thing.  We do not offer the "truth" so much as the idea that there is no truth, only questions.  This is what people are afraid of, the uncertainty of everything.  It is why we have religion and how authority maintains its hold when logic and reason would claim that the hold was no longer tennable.

The only people who do not believe that government and vested interest corporations are not spreading dis-information are those who know nothing of history (though they might know many names and dates - giving them the illusion of historical knowledge).


Anyway, keep up the good posts ;)

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 21:14 | 1104207 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I understand your point. And maybe I should have said an alternative narrative rather than "truth". But I would argue that the articles offered by Tyler as well as guest posts sponsored by Tyler are the main view.

Then there are the contributor articles that are not moderated or edited by Tyler and Company. I am never edited and post articles about anything I want when I want without prior approval requested or offered. This is a secondary view.

Finally there is the wide open comment section where anything goes and which represents a diverse third, fourth and hundredth view. And based upon discussions I've had with real live people I personally know who read ZH but do not comment, the comment section is the most frightening part of ZH by far.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 22:52 | 1104468 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

The comments are the real value in this site, not to take anything away from the Tylers articles etc, but it is in the discussion and the multi variate points of view that I learn the most.

You are correct about them being the most frightening because it is true freedom of speech which we, for the most part in our lives, are not actually exposed to.  And for the most part it is intelligent speech with people from many different perspectives and areas of expertise.  With freedom of speech comes voices we don't want to hear and the voices of those who would misinform us, either for an agenda or just to be a jerk.  But even these offer us learning opportunities and challenge our understandings. 

I have this discussion about Wikipedia with a colleague (I teach) where he says it is useless because it is not authoritative (anyone can edit and change anything) but I say that this is its very power.  The fact that it is democratized knowledge.  I am not suggesting Wikipedia is where you should end your research, but it is certainly a good place to start it.  That lack of authority, however, scares my colleague.  It disrupts his understanding of the world that there is truth and there are canonized keepers of the truth.  I think that you are correct in suggesting that most people are like my colleague.


Sun, 03/27/2011 - 09:38 | 1105141 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Well said. We either have freedom of speech, or we don't. Nobody has a monopoly on "truth" ... truth evolves through further discovery.

Sun, 03/27/2011 - 00:45 | 1104680 trav7777
trav7777's picture

very interesting that you try to act so much like a shepherd, eh, psyop?

Sun, 03/27/2011 - 01:23 | 1104741 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Funny that you are calling everyone a psyop after being accused of it yourself.  Trying to hide something, shitstain?

You are doing a good job of sullying the reputation of the posters here with your racist bullshit.  Such a good job that that it makes me question your intentions.  I have yet to meet a person as outwardly racist as you, and I'm from southeast fucking Texas, land of the undying Klan.

Sun, 03/27/2011 - 11:36 | 1105328 trav7777
trav7777's picture funnier than their calling ME a psyop FIRST.  Perhaps by the same token, THEY are trying to hide something?

You are doing a good job of sullying your own reputation by saying laughably idiotic shit over and over again.

the "undying Klan"?  LOL.  The Klan hasn't done anything in 50 years.  Your problem is that you are a punk and a self-hating uncle tom. 

6 days till Tokyo is "dead or evacuated," right?

Sun, 03/27/2011 - 04:09 | 1104904 uno2well
uno2well's picture


I agree 100% CD. This is my first post to Zerohedge and I’ve been lurking for almost two years. I signed up a long time ago because someone said something that pissed me off because it was completely false (I forget what it was now) and I wanted to reply.


I have a rather unique job and lifestyle and I’ve seen things that could cause me to fall on a box of bullets if I spouted off about them. But having said that, I think the time is coming that more and more people are waking up to the shitty hand we’ve been dealt and are growing angry about working themselves to the bone for sweet fuck all.


While a lot of people don’t want to believe that their government could be capable of the atrocities they’ve unleashed, the tide is turning and dissent is gaining traction. I see it every day and I try to open more of their eyes to the reality of the lies and obfuscations that they are being fed. 


Little by little the sheep are waking up. I see a tipping point coming; which to me means we aren’t far from TPTB doing something incredibly fierce to try to keep everyone in line. I hope I’m wrong.


From now on, I’m not going to be content to lurk in the shadows on this site. This will not be my last post, I will not go quietly. 


Sat, 03/26/2011 - 18:37 | 1103853 Banjo
Banjo's picture

Dan Duncan:

I think we are not getting all of the full negative impact of the nuclear disaster at Fukushima. That said.

I agree with you. Let's fight the fight on facts and not get too paranoid about people that disagree with our opinion. I have been banned from Carl Denninger's Market Ticker site, for disagreeing with his view on government assistance to people out of work and economics in general.

I thought the same as you about this guy perhaps he/she is just a fan of nuclear power, gets really passionate and fired up and wants to defend it? I know that my love of precious metals blocks my ability to see other investment vehicles as worthwhile and I will defend Gold and Silver investing to a certain point but mostly I've given up on headbutting against people who disagree with me.

Time will prove or disprove precious metals as investment vehicles. Similarly time will reveal more (not necessairily ALL) of what is happening at Fukushima vis a vis the nuclear power plant accident.


Sun, 03/27/2011 - 08:15 | 1105046 Mr. Denny Kneel
Mr. Denny Kneel's picture

You gotta love someone who ends their statement promoting everyone having a right to voice opinion with STFU.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 14:32 | 1103284 Rick Masters
Rick Masters's picture

Who do you think pushes or pays them to push the disinfomation campaign? Maybe it's part of some umbrella organization. Good detective work CD. You're the best.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 14:35 | 1103314 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Rick Masters

"Who do you think pushes or pays them to push the disinfomation campaign? Maybe it's part of some umbrella organization. It's quite scary when I think that there is an active group of people who push disinfo on us."


Why would you think it is a single group?

There maybe a single business paid to promote various ideas or angles, say Blackwater/Xe, or there may be a group of advisers paid to design posting strategy.

Those people may be single minded because they were all taught the same science. You don't allow the radicals or experimentals to be in charge because when they fuck up it's loss of money.

Same Science uses same techniques, techniques which have been refined of the centuries. I watched an episode of Waking the Dead that centered around a group selling information gathering techniques, torture. Same ideology passed down the centuries, notes taken and all refined and updated. Same families and limited coterie of acquaintances.

If it works you make a profit and word travels by word of mouth. If it doesn't, well I guess you teach.


Sat, 03/26/2011 - 19:45 | 1103964 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Nice work. Re; another comment.

Sun, 03/27/2011 - 00:26 | 1104640 trav7777
trav7777's picture

wtf...EVERYONE who disagrees with the crowd orthodoxy here is a psyop.

I've been accused, what, half a dozen times in the past week or two of being a shill?  ME?

You people are shameless.  Confront the facts and stop your weakass bullshit.

How the fuck do we know that YOU aren't a fuckin psyop?  This paranoia moonbat shit is effing hysterical

Sun, 03/27/2011 - 01:25 | 1104745 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Very few real people are as racist as you purport to be.  You are here to discredit everyone here.

Get out.

Sun, 03/27/2011 - 00:47 | 1104674 Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

CD - I specifically just logged in to say to you Thanks.  I really enjoyed that.

Now I'll go back to what I was doing.  Spear fishing for my dinner off a jungle island in a different ocean.

Hold on.  I forgot to junk that guy.  I'll take care of it.


Sun, 03/27/2011 - 12:18 | 1105509 tmosley
tmosley's picture

I'm noticing a LOT of shills that registered 39-45 weeks ago are suddenly crawling up out of the woodwork for this issue.  I don't really understand why.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 12:30 | 1103019 MSimon
MSimon's picture

I'm a Naval Nuke. I have eaten neutrons for breakfast. And my estimation is close to Tyler's. This will wreck Northern Japan and possibly Tokyo.


It is not so much what I see happening now. It is what I see inevitably happening next.


Those plants are bucking, spitting, and thumping. Some things are failing. Some never worked.  Let me just say that you do not find much I131 in spent fuel rods.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 12:40 | 1103034 herewego...
herewego...'s picture

Thanks, we need folks that know what they are on about. Can you elaborate? How could N. Japan be toast when they is nothing to burn (unlike Chernobyl)? The  I131 is a sign that the fuel rods where not finished - or that the plant is not cooling?

Sun, 03/27/2011 - 10:49 | 1105231 reading
reading's picture

Nothing has to burn for radiation to be released.  You ned to go do some basic research on Nuclear core can probably get started at "the google," good luck.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 12:44 | 1103050 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

 - neutrons for breakfast ...

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 19:03 | 1103903 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Hey Rusty hope you are well man. In Singapore. The Yen is going to get HAMMERED short term. The eur/usd trade is strengtening. Tired, but MoF and BoJ are going to spend repatiatriation funds, and not liquidate T-notes. Best wishes all!

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 13:02 | 1103090 Amish Hacker
Amish Hacker's picture

Sounds about right to me, Naval Nuke. But those of us who aren't nuclear experts can still have a common sense opinion of what must be going on. Consider the statement that what TEPCO is trying to do is "to restore the plant's crippled cooling functions, which are crucial to overcoming the crisis." Now go back and look at that video of the hydrogen explosion (if that's what it really was), and ask yourself (even if you're not a licensed plumber), "Does it seem likely that the intricate system of piping, pumps and valves can be "restored" at this point? 

When you figure in the stream of lies and disinformation that has come out of TEPCO so far, I think skepticism by non-experts is well-founded.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 18:53 | 1103881 Banjo
Banjo's picture

Amish Hacker:

I agree. I am not a nuclear expert by any stretch but it seems clear to me that the nuclear disaster is far worse than the officals are letting people know about.

There was one stage about five days ago when I thought things may genuinely be improving at the Fukushima plant however when they raised the incident from 5 to 6 this was a clear sign to me of deteroriation in the situation.

One other issue that I have with the current nuclear disaster is the potential for massive release of radioactive material, however remote. This has the capacity to severely damages human health. I feel insulated being in Australia however for the sake of the Japanese population can't the authorities raise the urgency of the situation without creating panic?

I also don't get the feeling that they are doing all that they can to clean up and fix the issue. I get the feeling everyone is hoping for a best case scenario.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 13:02 | 1103091 DarthVaderMentor
DarthVaderMentor's picture

You're so right. Over on the market ticker forum, some posters named Nuke_Engineer, Analog and Etika have taken over because they have so much more knowledge on the subject that I fear the donglicker is about to ban them forever. They are saying the exactly same thing. This will make Chernobyl look like a minor accident by the time it's all over if the Japanese don't start managing this openly and properly. Herr denninger doesn't want that said out loud. I think he's acting like he's been paid off by the nuclear lobby.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 13:31 | 1103162 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

kd is a tool.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 14:43 | 1103331 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Ask Karl Douchinger if he'd like to post any significant response to John Lohman's Billion Point presentation in the spike in real inflation.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 16:44 | 1103649 US Uncut
US Uncut's picture

YES!!!! The man is an **s. Google him for some fascinating background. Wish I had done that long ago. Anyone who cannot take any opposition on their site is not a site I want to be a part of.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 19:03 | 1103900 Banjo
Banjo's picture


Carl is very right wing and believes in techno solutions will overcome everything.

Carl is also very privileged, based on what I have read I assume he is in the top 15%-20% of wealth in America so his view of the world is framed by this position. To me it's the old let them eat cake syndrome.

I believe by him outright banning people, causes his site to have less credibility as it simply becomes a forum of people agreeing with each other.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 13:45 | 1103197 Popo
Popo's picture

This is indeed an existential threat to Tokyo.

Two things stand out here for me:

1) from a military perspective, it has now become painfully clear how vulnerable all major cities are to nuclear accidents, both accidental and malicious.

2) concealing information which may have lethal consequences for an entire population is a form of genocide. Those who conceal this information should be held accountable for the deaths of all those who die due to lack of sufficient warning.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 16:46 | 1103658 US Uncut
US Uncut's picture

Yep. And here is another irony. Our family prepared last year for some sort of nuclear event. Prepared in that we got KI and geiger counters. We figured the gov't would not b there for us. The same gov't that has used the fear of a dirty bomb since 9/11 to revoke countless civil liberties now turns around and says KI and all that stuff is not useful. So unless you want to be a victim of this "genocide", you better prepare you house for any kind of emergency... even the unthinkable. Little did we know last year that our nuke prep. would be for a plant emergency vs dirty bomb.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 14:27 | 1103302 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

"I'm a Naval Nuke."

I stopped reading there.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 18:05 | 1103800 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Good!  This would also be an excellent time for you to stop talking.



Sun, 03/27/2011 - 05:06 | 1104927 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Go ahead and get some technicial trivia from "Naval Nuke".  If hugging your teddy bear isn't enough to keep you warm at night, maybe some nuclear trivia will work.

Sun, 03/27/2011 - 12:21 | 1105524 tmosley
tmosley's picture

What the fuck are you talking about?  A naval nuke is a nuclear scientist/engineer.  Only the smartest people can get into the program.  Yet you are dismissing him BECAUSE he's an expert?

What the fuck is going on here?

Sun, 03/27/2011 - 21:56 | 1107207 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

I have 3 concerns:

1.  Nuclear experts have a strong vested interest in nuclear power, i.e. no nuclear power = end of career.  They are hopelessly biased.

2.  Nuclear experts are experts when it comes to properly functioning plants.  In the case of singular events or catastrophes they aren't.  For exhibit 1 I present TEPCO.

3. They cannot answer important questions like: What are the consequences for Tokyo? But that will not stop them answering with an unrealistic positive spin, and then applying their "expert" stamp to their answer.


Sat, 03/26/2011 - 18:04 | 1103798 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Navy Nuke --

I have several questions that I'm having trouble with.  I wonder if you could provide info or educated guesses?

  1. When we talk about X tons of nuclear fuel -- do you expect that mass would include or exclude the mass of the cladding?

  2. How heavy is the cladding relative to the actual fuel in the rods?

  3. In X tons of spent fuel rods, how much Sr-90 and Cs-137 would you expect?

  4. In the current situation, how likely do you think a recriticality accident is?

  5. If some portion of the fuel achieves accidental recriticality -- what do you think we would see?  I mean, what would the observable evidence look like from outside the plant?


Thanks in advance!


and... Fed delenda est.


Sat, 03/26/2011 - 14:04 | 1103248 Cistercian
Cistercian's picture

 The tsunami damage is horrible, and many people died.This is utterly tragic, and everyone should do what they can to help.The cleanup will be difficult.That being said, I am God-damned sick and tired of lying scumbags trying to minimize what a giant disaster Fukushima is.Do you have any idea how much land is ruined if vegetables in Tokyo are too hot?Strontium...accumulates in bones.Iodine..causes thyroid cancer.The water and land are contaminated, and it looks like it is pretty high level too.Scratch the Kanto plain for food production for a LONG TIME.

 It is an ENOURMOUS disaster.Minimizing it is evil.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 14:50 | 1103342 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture


Our best possible outcome is still an ENOURMOUS disaster. And we have yet to see the economic impact grab hold, seed, take root, and blossom into all of it's horrific potential.

From Nine Inch Nails: Where is Everybody?

Well did you happen to catch it
Did happen so fast, and what you thought would always last has passed you by
Is everything speeding up, or I am just slowing down?
I’m just spinning around, and I don’t know why.
All the pieces didn’t fit, but I really didn’t give a shit
I never wanted to be like you
Before I aspire, I knew you’re a liar
And I’m running out of things I can do

I’d like to stay, but everyday
Everything pushes me farther away
If you could show, help me to know
How it’s supposed to be, oh where did it go?

Beating, and needing,
And, bleeding, and breeding
Feeding, exceeding
Where is everybody?

Trying, and lying
Defying, denying
Crying, and dying
Where is everybody?

Well, ok, enough, you’ve had you’re fun
But come on, there has got to be someone
Hasn’t yet become, so numb, and succomb
And goddamn, I am so tired of pretending,
Wishing I was ending,
When all I’m really doing is trying to hide
But keeping inside,
Fooling with lives
Open my eyes, oh I wish I could try

Beating, and needing,
And, bleeding, and breeding
Feeding, exceeding
Where is everybody?

Trying, and lying
Defying, denying
Crying, and dying
Where is everybody 

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 18:01 | 1103796 Oligarchs Gone Wild
Oligarchs Gone Wild's picture

MsCreant a NIN aficionado?  I see your song and raise you one "Right where it belongs"

Mon, 03/28/2011 - 11:03 | 1108616 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Nice, thanks! Trent is awesome.

Sun, 03/27/2011 - 04:13 | 1104906 Alienated Serf
Alienated Serf's picture

herewego, enjoy some MSM news on how bad it just got.  dumbass.

TOKYO—The regulator for Japan's troubled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear complex said Sunday that radiation at one of the nuclear units has surged to the highest levels yet seen, with the existence of highly radioactive water hampering work to restore vital systems and prevent further contamination of radioactive materials to surrounding areas.

Highly radioactive water accumulating in the turbine building connected to the No. 2 reactor had a reading of more than 1000 millisievert per hour, "a rather large figure," Hidehiko Nishiyama, spokesman for Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency, told reporters at a press conference Sunday morning. "There is a strong possibility that the water is from the reactor core," Mr. Nishiyama said.

Sun, 03/27/2011 - 08:12 | 1105045 TINN
TINN's picture

more than 1000 millisievert per hour, "a rather large figure

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

How much larger than 1000 milliSievert, 100.000 times larger?

Crazy bitches


Sat, 03/26/2011 - 15:45 | 1103482 johansen
johansen's picture

Three times the norm is still nothing.

Either they are paranoid.. or it is significantly more than "three times the norm", and that is what concerns me. 

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 15:51 | 1103497 ZapBranigan
ZapBranigan's picture

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 10:52 | 1102741 Infinite QE
Infinite QE's picture

Actually, anyone who listens to MSM for too long becomes pretty fecking stupid!

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 11:14 | 1102807 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

Congratulations on your avatar, it made me laugh ;-)

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 18:46 | 1103873 prophet
prophet's picture

Mr. Clean called in to take on Daiichi.

P&G baby.  Tough Jobs Done Right.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 11:34 | 1102868 Dane Bramage
Dane Bramage's picture

I sometimes like to listen to the first segment of the MSM "nightly news", partly as study and partly as morbid curioisty.  They always try to pack the "news" into the first segment (the rest is most always 100% fluff).  I couldn't imagine watching more than that... it is numbingly mindless.  It's also telling to watch the teleprompter reflection in their eyes the entire time.  Try it.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 18:20 | 1103825 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

while a rabbit in your garden can be annoying and destructive, having a wolf in your garden could be downright dangerous

you would want to keep a sharp eye on that wolf so you knew what it was up to


fox news(beck in particular)=wolf


thats how i watch the MSM...usually on mute

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 11:05 | 1102786 redpill
redpill's picture

I assume when they say they will be "removing the water from the reactors" they mean the water in the basement resulting from dumping it on with firehoses, and not removing the water in the reactor vessels themselves.... right?


Sat, 03/26/2011 - 11:25 | 1102847 Golden monkey
Golden monkey's picture

not removing the water in the reactor vessels themselves.... right?

Don't expect Monkey Uncle Dick Cherl style Propaganda explosion.(MUDC)

Sure it melts. IT DID ALREADY.




But soon, I'm afraid

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 12:52 | 1103067 malikai
malikai's picture

They'll have to do both. Seawater was pumped into both the spent fuel pools and reactors. It is all but documented that it will/has caused degredation of the pumps themselves.

I suspect the salt+heat may also have an effect in oxidizing the cladding and possibly the fuel pellets/fission products/actinides, but that is merely speculation. I'll have to go back to my chemistry books to get the answers for that.

Either way, the saltwater has got to go. Freshwater will be required if they are to have anything resembling a functioning cooling system for those reactors and spent fuel pools.

The question is, where will they put the salt water? I'm afraid the answer to that will be the sea, so we can expect higher levels of cs137 and sr90 to be reported in seawater shortly.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 15:16 | 1103395 US Uncut
US Uncut's picture

Errr, "Cunts"? How about Dicks? Lets use the appropriate slurs for the appropriate gender. 

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 15:30 | 1103426 arekieh
arekieh's picture

99% of the worlds population is dumb enough to believe that. Otherwise people would be running in the streets right now.

Sun, 03/27/2011 - 00:18 | 1104625 SheHunter
SheHunter's picture

Don't you love the way TEPCo et al assume they can just keep blabbering and their terrified, homeless citizens will just nod and stay indoors? These 2 sentences are contained in the s-a-m-e article.

"Radiation levels 40 percent higher than the yearly limit for the general public has been detected just over 30 kilometers from the Fukushima Daiichi power plant."
..........followed by.............
"Radiation exerts now say the amount of radiation detected does not pose a health risk." 

Huh???  They say WHAT??  Oh no risk.  OK.  time to move along.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 12:28 | 1103007 yabyum
yabyum's picture

They can not tell the truth! We could not handle the truth! We are in for a world of hurt from this disaster, and it will be here to skull fuck us for hundreds of years.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 21:39 | 1104290 IQ 145
IQ 145's picture

 Surely you remember that Iodine has a half life of 5 days? This is utterly meaningless. Completely irrelevant; like the "disaster" in the GOM, which had no effect on anyone. Learn how to think; do your homework; the media will never provide anything but emotionally stimulating entertainment.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 23:23 | 1104530 Cistercian
Cistercian's picture

 Google Chernobyl necklace.

Sun, 03/27/2011 - 01:30 | 1104755 tmosley
tmosley's picture

The poison is in the dose.  A worst case scenario could seed enough fallout to last the journey to the US, namely Hawaii or Alaska, with a possibility of hitting the west coast.  We don't have experience with radioactive iodine traveling over water, only mountainous land, and it went several hundred miles further over land that was thought to be possible.  

Not saying such an event is probable, but it is not insane to have preparations, especially given that certain actors are seeing the fear caused by this, and may try to exploit it by creating a domestic nuclear scare.  You will certainly want KI then, if for no other reason than to resell it.  I made up 20 courses to keep my neighbors from wasting their money on such things.  When things calm down, buying a batch large enough for your neighborhood wouldn't be a bad investment.  In times of crisis, we rely on our neighbors.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 10:32 | 1102683 Judge Judy Scheinlok
Judge Judy Scheinlok's picture

Tepco, BP, our oceans are fucked Slewie!

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 11:39 | 1102883 Golden monkey
Golden monkey's picture

That's why I sold BP.

I offered them 2000$ CDN for the leaking hole.

They refused, I sold. 0.2 second, it was done - errr takes flash crash err - fuck you hft err err  SOT crashing to upside - bernankkkerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.  

But BP is not fucked yet. Tepco is, though...


Sat, 03/26/2011 - 12:31 | 1103021 VisualCSharp
VisualCSharp's picture


Sat, 03/26/2011 - 13:10 | 1103112 malikai
malikai's picture

Stop smoking that "legal weed". Its not good for you.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 10:33 | 1102689 Kina
Kina's picture

Sounds like the recovery effort is being managed by Larry, Curly and Moe.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 10:39 | 1102697 cossack55
cossack55's picture

And represented by the legal firm Dewy, Cheatham and Howe.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 10:34 | 1102691 slow_roast
slow_roast's picture

TEPCO will be lauded as heroes and get government positions when this is all over.  Long live bureaucracy!

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 10:50 | 1102731 FreeMoney Bernie
FreeMoney Bernie's picture

Boehner and McConnell will want them all to take over our atomic energy commission

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 10:34 | 1102692 Dr. Gonzo
Dr. Gonzo's picture

...and  those tumors growing inside you are from something else too. And those radiation burns are no worse than being out in the sun without sunscreen. Trust us. No big deal these things happen all the time.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 11:32 | 1102859 Miss Expectations
Miss Expectations's picture

Never use sunscreen, it's extremely toxic.  Never slather it all over your children.

Worldwide, the greatest rise in melanoma has been experienced in countries where chemical sunscreens have been heavily promoted  The rise in melanoma has been exceptionally high in Queensland, Australia  where the medical establishment has vigorously promoted the use of sunscreens. Queensland now has more incidences of melanoma per capita than any other place on Earth.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 13:10 | 1103110 lindacrabapple
lindacrabapple's picture

There are non-toxic ones you can get, at a higher price of course, at health food stores.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 20:29 | 1104063 reader2010
reader2010's picture

People are too stupid to use any sunscreen.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 10:36 | 1102693 Kina
Kina's picture

I think we would hate to know the actual facts about the Fukushima reactors.


Go long life rafts.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 11:15 | 1102818 Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

Me too, I think the truth/reality is *really* ugly, but I'd really like to know.

Sat, 03/26/2011 - 10:38 | 1102694 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

These people are "institutional evil" incarnate and they are in a corporate death struggle. Nothing matters but the company's survival.


Sat, 03/26/2011 - 10:40 | 1102702 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Monsanto owns TEPCO? Wow.

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