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TEPCO Now Evaluates Dispersing Boric Acid On Reactor 4 As Fuel Rod Damage At Other Reactors Estimated At 33% and 70%

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Desperation in Fukushima is growing as one by one the remaining options to prevent the "recriticlaity" of reactor 4 slide away. After the idea floated earlier to pour water on the core in hopes of cooling was dashed following a fire which broke out about 2 hours earlier and technical difficulties associated with the actual implementation , the latest and probably last recourse proposed is to disperse boric acid - a radiation retardant - all over everything in a blind "shotgun" strategy. How that will do anything to prevent the nuclear fall out from the containment bed which is now supposedly exposed to the open air, remains a mystery. And another update from Kyodo: "Fuel rods damage at Fukushima's 2 reactors estimated at 70%, 33%"

From Reuters:

Nuclear power plant operator Tokyo Electric Power said on Wednesday that it is considering dispersing boric acid, a fire retardant, over the Fukushima Daiichi plant's No. 4 reactor from a helicopter.

The plant operator also said a fire seen earlier in the day at the No.4 reactor was no longer visible.

The operator was responding to questions from reporters regarding reports that it was mulling dumping water on the No.4 reactor, which first caught fire on Tuesday, by helicopter.

And from Kyodo:

An estimated 70 percent of the nuclear fuel rods have been damaged at the troubled No. 1 reactor of the Fukushima No.1 nuclear power plant and 33 percent at the No. 2 reactor, Tokyo Electric Power Co. said Wednesday.

The reactors' cores are believed to have partially melted with their cooling functions lost after Friday's magnitude 9.0 earthquake rocked Fukushima Prefecture and other areas in northeastern and eastern Japan.

Around 5:45 a.m., a worker at the plant saw flames on the fourth floor of the building housing the No. 4 reactor, believed to be the same spot where an apparent hydrogen explosion caused a fire at 9:38 a.m. Tuesday. The reactor had been halted for regular checks from before the quake.

TEPCO said it had stopped fire-fighting operations after judging that the Tuesday morning fire had been extinguished. It said it promptly reported the latest incident to firefighters and local governments.

Flames were seen through the two square-shaped holes about 8 by 8 meters created in the walls of the building by Tuesday's 6:14 a.m. blast, but were no longer visible when workers at the plant tried to confirm them at 6:15 a.m. Wednesday, the utility said.

On Tuesday, the utility said water in a pool storing spent nuclear fuel rods at the reactor may be boiling and that its level may have dropped, exposing the rods. The government ordered the firm to inject water into the pool ''as soon as possible to avert a major nuclear disaster.''

 

 


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Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:18 | Link to Comment mynhair
mynhair's picture

Needing power suks.

This is bullish for TZA tomorrow.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:30 | Link to Comment IQ 145
IQ 145's picture

 "The water may be boiling--" WTF do you mean, it MAY BE BOILING. Jesus H. Christ you can't tell if the fuking water is Boiling, or not Boiling? This is giving me a headache. I think I'll just stop reading this.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:49 | Link to Comment Mark McGoldrick
Mark McGoldrick's picture

I'm not a nuclear physicist, but it sort of sounds like a problem with either the carburetor or a finster rod.  Can't they just run some codes on the CPU? 

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:50 | Link to Comment jerry_theking_lawler
jerry_theking_lawler's picture

i thought it may be the muffler bearings.....need to check the tie-rod dipstick for confirmation....

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:53 | Link to Comment Mark McGoldrick
Mark McGoldrick's picture

Can't be muffler bearings, otherwise you'd hear a rattle.

IDIOT!

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:25 | Link to Comment eddiebe
eddiebe's picture

And anyway, it's all ball bearings now.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:37 | Link to Comment Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

Its called a 'muffler' because it muffles the bearing noise, you dumbass.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:49 | Link to Comment Bleeping Fed
Bleeping Fed's picture

The engine dropped out several miles ago.  Now it's just a bureaucrat under the hood making vroom vroom noises so the sheeple will still think they have a functioning car...

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 22:02 | Link to Comment oklaboy
oklaboy's picture

ya'll are worthless, has anybody checked the air in the tires yet?

Wed, 03/16/2011 - 02:13 | Link to Comment RichardP
RichardP's picture

Can't check.  None of the instruments are working.

Wed, 03/16/2011 - 05:06 | Link to Comment zhandax
zhandax's picture

All of you stay the fuck away from my car.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:38 | Link to Comment CheapKUNGFU
CheapKUNGFU's picture

heh, he said finster rod... heh

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 22:17 | Link to Comment cornedmutton
cornedmutton's picture

As self-appointed nuclear expert of this forum, please allow to try to explain the reasoning behind the thought of spreading boric acid on the damaged reactor.

Boron is a poison in the nuclear world. This means it captures thermal neutrons - becoming a radioactive isotope in the process. However, fewer thermal neutrons means fewer fuel fission events. Poisoning a reactor with borated water (dilute boric acid) is done to either (a) shutdown or maintain shutdown a reactor that is potentially capable of reaching criticality even with all moveable control rods fully inserted, or (b) provide additional shutdown margin when the structural integrity of the fuel assemblies must be called into question. As the assemblies melt due to the intense decay heat production (which is not being removed as core cooling has failed), the fuel may change geometry and portions of the blob of resultant molten metal could then potentially achieve criticality (bad).

It is not "sprinkled around" and it's not to cover up radiation in a last ditch effort to prevent "nuclear fallout." The author of this blurb, like so many others that apparently don't know the first thing about the nuclear process as it pertains to energy production, is ultimately guilty of stoking the flames of fear that our out-of-control MSM is so keen to progress.

Everybody, relax.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 22:27 | Link to Comment TeamAmerica
TeamAmerica's picture

LOL...you just told ZH to relax.  As if THAT will ever happen!

You also posted a reasoned and factual post, and thus will be targeted as an agent of The Man.   Next you'll suggest that deadly radiation hasn't already reached California and the government isn't covering it all up...  

Wed, 03/16/2011 - 01:08 | Link to Comment Tail Dogging The Wag
Tail Dogging The Wag's picture

Relax, everything is under control. Trust your government and you will be safe and sound. If radiation doesn't kill you, it will make you stronger.

CNN says the new hair trend is no hair. Mutations are chic says FOX. McDonald's has just released its latest TV advert starring a balding Ronald McDonald and his two new girlfriends.

PLACE AD HERE

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 22:04 | Link to Comment dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

a watched containment vessel never boils

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 23:55 | Link to Comment prophet
prophet's picture

 I don't care who you are, that's funny right there

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 22:31 | Link to Comment Paul Bogdanich
Paul Bogdanich's picture

"Jesus H. Christ you can't tell if the fuking water is Boiling, or not Boiling?"

 

You get close enough to have a good look there slick and let us know what you see before the convulsions start. 

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 23:07 | Link to Comment SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

Well let's see. Japan is only the robot fucking capital of the world. No one's got a drone with a freakin camera on it??

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:18 | Link to Comment Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

....as the nikkie reclaims all of it's losses in 30 minutes and the US futures erase  80 points negative instantly.

This is a fucking full-on flea circus.

What a mother fucking joke.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:21 | Link to Comment mynhair
mynhair's picture

Project yourself into what should happen, and do the opposite.

It's a Zen thing.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:29 | Link to Comment Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

Positively, without fucking doubt, the most laughable crock of donkey shit I have ever fucking seen...ever.

Oh, to be a pawn in the game of the rich.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:18 | Link to Comment SWCroaker
SWCroaker's picture

The headlines are that the fire @ #4 "appears to be out".  They don't actually say anything like "we put it out", or "we have it contained", but instead it reads more like "when we look for smoke through our binoculars from 8 miles away, we don't see nuthin no mo.  Whew."

These guys are doing crap; they're just providing commentary on what is unfolding!

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:29 | Link to Comment ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

And well after the fact at that. They must have gone to the same disinformation seminars as Tony Haywood.

Want to get real up to date information on where it's going?

Choose the 111 images dot then hit 'play'. Northern Pacific Infrared. Last two days. Japan upper left corner in gray area.

http://www.weatheroffice.gc.ca/satellite/animateweb_e.html?imagetype=satellite&imagename=goes_pac_1070_m_..................jpg&nbimages=1&clf=1

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:37 | Link to Comment Amish Hacker
Amish Hacker's picture

How do you say, "Heck of a job, Brownie!" in Japanese?

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:55 | Link to Comment Hedge Jobs
Hedge Jobs's picture

This was on B'berg

"TEPCO said the fire was spotted by a worker around 5:45 a.m. local time. The company later said it was no longer visible."

No longer visible? f'cking hell! everything must be fine then if its no longer visible!

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:16 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

Like them pesky no-see-'em's.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:17 | Link to Comment 10kby2k
10kby2k's picture

I didn't have sex with that woman.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:40 | Link to Comment CheapKUNGFU
CheapKUNGFU's picture

define 'sex' - heh

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:26 | Link to Comment SWCroaker
SWCroaker's picture

Replying to myself here.  I just want to add that I realize that there *are* people on site, dealing with a seriously fubard situation, and that personal forays into or near the reactors carry a major risk of personal hazard and/or death.  Some of these folks may very well dose themselves to death in their efforts to do what needs doing.

What puzzle me is the lack of surveillance that hasn't been deployed.  Cameras with independent power sources, broadcasting wireless feeds, so the control peeps can see what is what, rather than wait for obvious clues.  You shouldn't have to by chance notice "smoke billowing" while "carrying batteries" from building to building.  Get some freaking cell phones, prop them up with the cameras on, and bug your butt out.  Cheap on the spot eyes, and after 5 days, surely you can have a copter fly in more robust stuff. Early detection of issues can give you a chance...

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 23:18 | Link to Comment Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

RPVs dude.  There are hundreds of them that can fly into anywhere you'd like and take HD pictures and send them back.  They're not so sophisticated that you can't get one on eBay.  There are a bunch listed here: http://www.rccarmax.com/.  I've flown them down corridors of buildings and theough the structure of bridges and returned HD images.

A few thousand invested here and there wouldn't be any question as to what is going on at the site.

Wed, 03/16/2011 - 05:47 | Link to Comment zhandax
zhandax's picture

Keep in mind that the coast is in shambles and maybe by the time reactor two went south (last night) was there any capability to send in any outside equipment.  Also keep in mind that since battery power went dead (likely around Monday) those reactor buildings have have been pitch black hellholes of death.  As in no interior light.  Probably everything in the country that can still fly and hasn't gone to Singapore bearing bankers has been pressed into rescue service.  Then factor in the bureaucratic bullshit between two countries, and maybe tomorrow can they get some of the useful equipment for such circumstances airlifted in.  The tech goodies are indigenous to the country, buy you can't just jump on the bullet train to rush them up from Tokyo yet...  Remember, all the Japanese car manufacturers closed on Monday and to get Honda's prototype robot, someone in command must have the bearing to remember it exists and then have the phone number of Chairman-san of Honda.  The US does not have a monopoly on beaurecratic incompetence.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:20 | Link to Comment william the bastard
william the bastard's picture

Where are the gold pimps?

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:22 | Link to Comment mynhair
mynhair's picture

Waiting for the low.  Too many morons left that need to sell.

Mostly NFLX shorts.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:40 | Link to Comment tmosley
tmosley's picture

We're running a train on your mother.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:20 | Link to Comment Worker Bee
Worker Bee's picture

But but but...Karl D says everything is fine!! And anyone who disagrees is a meany greeny!

 

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:56 | Link to Comment Ray1968
Ray1968's picture

Yeah, I read Karl's piece. Nice to see he can use Google like the rest of us.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:04 | Link to Comment Cursive
Cursive's picture

Ha. Ha. I'm not a Karl D hater, but if he has taken this position, I nominate him to fly over there and straighten it out.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:12 | Link to Comment stormsailor
stormsailor's picture

not a karl d hater either, he is a very bright man.  but not bright enough to know he doesn't know everything or the difference between what is and what should be. he does try hard.

me,foxy,karl and another guy learned to trade /es by practicing at night and charting for each other.  we had a lot of fun in 08 and 09 shorting the market.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:23 | Link to Comment Worker Bee
Worker Bee's picture

His "Its my ball and Ill take it home" thing he has going is a bit over the top

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:19 | Link to Comment jerry_theking_lawler
jerry_theking_lawler's picture

up next....reactor #5....

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:27 | Link to Comment mynhair
mynhair's picture

Now, that would be bad.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:17 | Link to Comment Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

Are they saying that the #4 reactor is a problem as well?

I thought that reactors 4, 5, & 6 were shut down cold for maintenance, and the "only" risk at each of those reactors was associated with the spent fuel storage.  And #4 storage had been on fire. 

WTF?

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:21 | Link to Comment ZippyBananaPants
ZippyBananaPants's picture

I guess that they will do just what the did during the Toyota disaster, the government buys the stock, and now using some of the billions to buy the whole market/

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:21 | Link to Comment gimli
gimli's picture

Where have I heard this before ---- Hmmmm -- Oh yeah! ..... BP plans to use chemical disperants in Gulf of Mexico.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:20 | Link to Comment e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

a little corexit, a lot of radiation, throw in a lizard and we may have created godzilla.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:51 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Thus spake a glowing Hypnotoad -- ALL Hail the Hypnotoad!

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:21 | Link to Comment randocalrissian
randocalrissian's picture

Welcome to the new reality series: "Atomic Cafe - Japan."

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:25 | Link to Comment Widowmaker
Widowmaker's picture

My question is who are the 50 heros at such risk assisting on the ground, and how do I get them a couple cold ones?

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:27 | Link to Comment mynhair
mynhair's picture

Dunno, tried over the Algorenet.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:07 | Link to Comment Cursive
Cursive's picture

@Widowmaker

The irony of your post and your userid is not lost on me.  You are right.  We should honor these heroes.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:31 | Link to Comment Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture

and a few Geishas..

 

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:25 | Link to Comment Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

LMFAO, Why the FUCK even watch this god damn garbage?

What an UNFUCKING-REAL CROCK OF FRAUDULENT PROPOGANDA SHIT!

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:29 | Link to Comment mynhair
mynhair's picture

Have a Xanax, on my wife......

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:17 | Link to Comment Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

Is that like doing a line off of her ass?

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:20 | Link to Comment Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

I would, at a minimum, appreciate to see a photo of her before I commit to that.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:41 | Link to Comment AVP
AVP's picture

You made me spit my beer out...Fuck

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:35 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

Just You Wait, Just You Fucking Wait

Still yet to come, waiting quietly in the wings, brooding of the timing, plotting.  Malevolence seething felt by all the senses of those near.

The Powers That Be, the Illuminati, the Rothschilds, Rockefellers, the Bilderbergers the CFR mob, et al in addition.  Waiting for the perfectly right moment to pounce, subsequent to the paramount moment of human destruction and degradation, rising as a champion, declaring something as dangerous to mankind as nuclear energy musts be administered by a multi-national global organization under the aegis of the smartest administrators and academics in the world, brought togeather in one organization to manage all of the world's energy resources.

Imagine the power, controlling all energy input output relationships, particularly when empowered with monopolistic pricing capacity, dictatorial allocation of scarce resources, allied with the financial paymasters of the Silent Leaders.  Protected by the military wealth of combined nations....   

All hail the commercial dismemberment of the energy producing sector, subsumed by the new a global body... for the altruistic, intelligent betterment of all mankind....

serving all men...
protecting the environment...
or the good of all to come....
imposing carbon based taxes....
redistributive of wealth....

Away from the common man, to the overseers.

 

Just wait.  They've been far too silent, yet.
Never let a crisis go to waste.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:45 | Link to Comment Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture

He who controls the Spice, controls the Universe.

 

Fucking Herbert was awake!

 

+1

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:27 | Link to Comment Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

And this is the best that you c - that the-the government, the *U.S. government* can come up with? I mean, you-you're NASA for cryin' out loud, you put a man on the moon, you're geniuses! You-you're the guys that think this shit up! I'm sure you got a team of men sitting around somewhere right now just thinking shit up and somebody backing them up! You're telling me you don't have a backup plan, that these eight boy scouts right here, that is the world's hope, that's what you're telling me?

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:09 | Link to Comment Brother can you...
Brother can you spare a dime's picture

+1   Hillarious..wouldn't it be nice if it were so...

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:30 | Link to Comment eddiebe
eddiebe's picture

Some crazy shit. The government has to order the assholes at the nuke plant to put more water in the cooling pond to cover up the fuel rods.  Stranger than fiction.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:46 | Link to Comment Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

The Japanese government DID order TEPCO to pump more water into those exposed rods.

TEPCO's reply:  "unable to comply"

Why hasn't the JAPANESE GOVERNMENT taken command of the situation?

WHO OWNS TEPCO??

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:27 | Link to Comment ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

I gotta couple of boxes of Twenty Mule Team they can use if it'll help.

I'll even fly it over there.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:30 | Link to Comment mynhair
mynhair's picture

@ColonelCooper, your store have FelsNaptha laundry bars?  I need some.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:45 | Link to Comment jerry_theking_lawler
jerry_theking_lawler's picture

good ole california borate.....

Wed, 03/16/2011 - 00:47 | Link to Comment davepowers
davepowers's picture

I asked earlier if they still made Twenty Mule Team.

If you're old enuff, you'll remember what company sponsored the TV western hosted by what actor w/ 20 Mule Team the focus of ads? :)

 

Wed, 03/16/2011 - 05:36 | Link to Comment Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Boraxo

Death Valley Days

Ronny Reagan

 

Wed, 03/16/2011 - 00:55 | Link to Comment Aristarchan
Aristarchan's picture

Or use what the US navy keeps on their nuclear ships - sodium polyborate....flea powder.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:27 | Link to Comment baconator3000
baconator3000's picture

Karl denniger is a moron. He is the first guy yo get involved in hysteria regarding economics. lets not even talk about his mangosteen and thorium pumping

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:35 | Link to Comment stormsailor
stormsailor's picture

if you want to set him off mention pm's,  hahahahhahhahahahah

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:29 | Link to Comment gimli
gimli's picture

I hear Hillary Clinton gotten close to the situation and has developed a battle plan:

 

http://space.offgamers.com/images/49360/dr%20manhattan.jpg

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:29 | Link to Comment miker
miker's picture

The radiation given off by spent fuel rods is so intense that it would kill you in minutes even from many feet of distance.  This is why refilling the Spent Fuel Pool can only be done remotely (e.g., through an existing piping system) or if someone is using a hose over the edge they are taking a huge personal risk.  It is quite possible that the Spent Fuel Pool may have developed a leak during the earthquake and with no cooling systems on, lost water level (perhaps slowly) until the stored assemblies began to be exposed and heated up/started on fire.  There are two radiation hazards with all of this.  The direct ionizing radiation (like x-rays) are what the workers have to avoid because it is so intense it could kill them in hours.  As the fuel burns, vapors and particulates are released.....really nasty stuff also that would kill you if you injested it but might be low enough not to kill a worker on the site.  That's the stuff that could effect the general population.

The remaining workers are basically giving their lives to try and minimize all of these effects.  They are probably doing this in protective gear (full respirators and clothing) but at some point they may say screw it and take that stuff off.  It only makes the work harder and they may have received lethal doses from ionizing radiation so that it won't make a difference. 

Nothing funny about this situation or to make light of, in my opinion.  Sarcasm and cynicism has it's place, but this isn't one of those times, IMHO.  This is a tradgedy of epic proportion and while I don't think lot's of Japanese people will get sick or die from this event, it will scar the landscape and add another couple of hundred deaths to the overall toll (the nuclear workers).

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:33 | Link to Comment mynhair
mynhair's picture

What?  Remotely = fire hose?

But keep it up, I have TZA.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:45 | Link to Comment seek
seek's picture

I did some rough calculations based on the last reported readings at the site, they probably have a a few hours before early onset of radiation sickness, if they work three days, they're certain to die -- mixed outcomes in between. I don't think those readings were where they are working (which are likely higher), either.

I have little doubt many of these men are going to be dead at the end of the week. Given the relatively low readings at the various prefectures, though, they're absolutely savings lives, likely hundred of thousands to a million per each worker's sacrifice. Hopefully everyone recognizes this, if not now, when this mess is over.

 

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:47 | Link to Comment Deathtöngue
Deathtöngue's picture

You don't even have the slightest clue and are flapping your lips in abject ignorance.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:50 | Link to Comment Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

That is what I said a couple of days ago on another forum.  With no power the shutdown reactors and the pools weren't able to maintain the temperature level of the water and so they water started to boil off and as you said the rods became exposed.  I agree that they are using pipes that are already going into the reactor to get sea water into the place.  I think on sunday or saturday they said they where using fire trucks to pump the water in.  Maybe they need the pumbs on the fire trucks to suck the water from the ocean and then transfer it to the pipes via the truck to the reactor.  But if they are out there and around the reactors they are trying to cool, then I'm surprised no one hasn't been killed in those explosions.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:43 | Link to Comment Kaiser Zose
Kaiser Zose's picture

TEPCO allegedly has stated two workers "missing" after U3 explosion (2nd explosion in sequence).  Workers were supposedly in the U4 Turbine Building at the time.  Who knows if any of that is accurate.

The firehose in the pool solution is probably the only solution remaining to get water in any pool w/ no ac power to spent fuel pumps.  Even if they can get power to a pump motor, who knows if the makeup water source would be available/intact.  The helo drop idea is a total non-starter for Unit 4 - there's this little problem of a roof still being intact...

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:58 | Link to Comment Natasha Fatale
Natasha Fatale's picture

Well said.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 23:35 | Link to Comment Aristarchan
Aristarchan's picture

I have done an awful lot of refuels, and we worked with the rod bundles as they came out of the reactor and went into the pool. Even divers would go into the pools for inspection, and I have stood and leaned over the edge of them and watched the rods glow blue.

Wed, 03/16/2011 - 01:29 | Link to Comment Tapeworm
Tapeworm's picture

That reminds me of Medvedev's book on Chernobyl where he related the stories of the clueless that were out on their apartment balconies admiring the shimmering glow of the ionized air above the burning graphite pile.

 Yeah, I know that this isn't RBMK or anything close, but that description has always haunted me since I read it.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:31 | Link to Comment RmcAZ
RmcAZ's picture

This is bullish, Nikkei up 5%, BUY BUY BUY

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:34 | Link to Comment Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

LMFAO...It's unfucking real.

 

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:45 | Link to Comment mynhair
mynhair's picture

Amazing what a couple of trillion Yen direct stock buys can accomplish.

Sell into strength.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:32 | Link to Comment hungrydweller
hungrydweller's picture

Boron addition is important as long as the fuel is covered with water.  Injecting boron, which is a potent soluble neutron absorber, is part of the criticality control for all reactors.  Reactor control rods are primarily composed of boron.  That said, boron addition prevents further nuclear fission which creates more heat and fission products (which also create more heat).  However, boron does nothing to protect uncovered fuel from overheating due to fission product decay.  As uncovered fuel begins to overheat and decompose it will likely fall apart into a pile of fuel pieces on the bottom of the reactor vessel.  Since the geometric configuration of this pile of fuel is not controlled, further fission and uncontrolled criticality can occur creating a significant overtemperature condition leading to a meltdown and a breach of the reactor vessel.  Excess boron addition will help to prevent an uncontrolled criticality of decomposed fuel elements.  Unfortunately, it will also not be as effective as it could since the water to fuel ratio in a pile of rubbelized fuel is not conducive to good heat transfer and the end state will likely be a core melt anyway.  That is why it is crucial to continue to keep the fuel covered with water as the water evaporates away. 

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:34 | Link to Comment mynhair
mynhair's picture

Well, it is probably well established that fuel rods are exposed.  We need to move on to burning core rod temps, and burning temp of concrete.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:32 | Link to Comment THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

Some urgent news from Bloomberg.

Susan Li is wearing this semi - transparent blouse thingy - temperatures are soaring !!

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:36 | Link to Comment Misean
Misean's picture

Best news I've had all day.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:47 | Link to Comment THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

I have already reached critically but the situation appears to be contained.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:24 | Link to Comment 10kby2k
10kby2k's picture

I exploded.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:35 | Link to Comment mynhair
mynhair's picture

but...but...What is Lindsay Lohan wearing?

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:29 | Link to Comment AVP
AVP's picture

Don't know what she wearing today, although, I see pinstripes in her future...Dontchaknow...

Really...who...the...fuck...cares!

Oh, almost forgot (dementia) what are your thoughts on silver Ms. Kitty?

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:32 | Link to Comment THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

One must always wank in the face of adversity.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:35 | Link to Comment stormsailor
stormsailor's picture

or on her face.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:46 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

Best deal pickup ....

When released from 28 day program, be there with RR, 1.75 Smirnoff, bag-o-dobie, amyls, Xanax, Percosets, Percodans, Quualludes, Vicodin and Ativan..... 
Bingo!
A friend for life.  Well at least for a couple skankie hours

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:37 | Link to Comment mynhair
mynhair's picture

mouse slam dup deleted

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:37 | Link to Comment The Axe
The Axe's picture

..

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:41 | Link to Comment kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

God save the Noodle Girls!

 

 

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:41 | Link to Comment Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

All those Japanese business must be mouse-clicking the fucking shit out of stocks.

You know, the same market that was going to shut-the-fuck-down for a week because they thought the plunge would continue.  So fucking wierd.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:43 | Link to Comment buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

I volunteer to go over there and piss on that damn reactor #2.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:49 | Link to Comment mynhair
mynhair's picture

Give me a sec to down 2 more, and I'll join ya.

Always wanted my pecker to glow in the dark without help.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:50 | Link to Comment buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Group toidy, good idea.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:53 | Link to Comment mynhair
mynhair's picture

So bad, and just us.  lmao

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:57 | Link to Comment buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Yeah. Put a keg in the middle of it and we could probably drown the whole island.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:15 | Link to Comment mynhair
mynhair's picture

Be worth the airfare, fer sure.  Tekillya come in kegs?  We could really light a fire!

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:44 | Link to Comment buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

I'm confused, is the beer the chaser, or is the tehkillya the chaser?

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:46 | Link to Comment Money Squid
Money Squid's picture

The info on reactor 4 is very confusing. First, they say 4 was shut down, not operational the time of the earthquake. After the problems at 1, 2, and 3 we hear of an explosion at 4 with a sudden increase in radioactivity, then a fire in the fuel pool, then no just a regular fire from an explosion, then no back to a fire in the fuel pool because the pool water evaporated exposing the spent fuel, which released the hydrogen that caused the explosion. Then the man in the blue jumpsuit live on NHK stated something like  there is no cover over the reactor. Now how can you dispense boric acid from a helicopter on the #4 reactor through the containment building, unless the explosion blew the top off the containment building (the hardened concrete structure surrounding the reactor vessel). Unless, they are only talking about droping from the helicopter into the spent fuel pool, which is located above the reactor, which occasionally  spontaneously catches fire.  TEPCO is doing a damn fine job of confusing the information so noone can put a complete picture together.  I wonder why?

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:56 | Link to Comment mynhair
mynhair's picture

Allow me to summarize.  1 through 4 is toast.  4 farted into it's condensation pool underneath, and spewed some radioactivity.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:45 | Link to Comment sterlinger
sterlinger's picture

From the oil drum:

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/7661#comment-777260

This loss of the last battery powered cooling, led to the fuel rods becoming uncovered in a manner similar that also occurred in the Three Mile Island accident ( although due to different reasons). When overheated in steam the oxidation reaction above accelerates exponentially. As the zirconium oxidizes the coating thickens, cracks and turns white from internal fractures that increase the diffusion rate of steam to the metal. . It then has the look and mechanical properties of egg shells. Hydrogen from this process is released, but also is absorbed by the underlying metal cladding which causes embrittlement and metal fracture. Soon cracks form in the cladding releasing the trapped fission products inside. This is not "melting', but rather catastrophic disintegration of the cladding structural integrity and containment of fission products. If the process continues the cladding can fracture away exposing the fuel pellets which in the worst case scenario can drop out and collect on the bottom of the reactor vessel. It is the worse case scenario that I believe is causing the Japanese to inject boric acid. Boron is a neutron absorber and will prevent any possibility of a pile of fuel pellets on the bottom of the vessel from going critical and restarting the chain reaction.

Read full comment here:

<a href="http://www.theoildrum.com/node/7661#comment-777260"</a>

 

 

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:53 | Link to Comment buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

HIC = Hydrogen Induced Cracking. It is a familiar petroleum industry problem. This sounds like that on steroids.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:00 | Link to Comment mynhair
mynhair's picture

The zirconium doesn't oxidise.  Never gave cheap earings?

The rods start to burn like potassium when exposed to O2.

Oh, why bother with morons.

Nikkei up 6%.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 22:09 | Link to Comment buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

sterlinger was quoting someone at tod. Yeah, even a thick casing of zirconium will burn under the right conditions. If there is H present along with B and O that might lead to Boric acid (Or Cl, creating HCl) in the right environment which can't be good for the casings either. I wouldn't go spraying Boric acid around willy nilly if it were me but then I don't know jack.

 

edit: Hey, is that helicopter ben delivering the H3BO3? He's had a lot of practice dropping clownbux!

Wed, 03/16/2011 - 07:28 | Link to Comment duckduckMOOSE
duckduckMOOSE's picture

No, no, no- it was Col. Mustard, in the Cooling Pool, with the Lead Pipe!

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:47 | Link to Comment My Days Are Get...
My Days Are Getting Fewer's picture

Could someone explain why "spent" fuel rods are stored on site.

 

I would think that those rods would be trucked off site and stuffed into a cave.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:52 | Link to Comment redpill
redpill's picture

Lots of folks in Japan, and no one wants it in their backyard.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:53 | Link to Comment Misean
Misean's picture

Ask those who won't allow said trucking.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:56 | Link to Comment buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

the nuke industry likes to keep all their toxic eggs in one basket. Those are supposed to be for a few years of cooling, not long term storage but long term storage is expensive so...

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:56 | Link to Comment 4shzl
4shzl's picture

nimby

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:04 | Link to Comment mynhair
mynhair's picture

Cuz Reid determined they could not go to Yucca.  Cost NV a bundle, but the dead came out to vote for his sorry ass anyway.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:42 | Link to Comment SWCroaker
SWCroaker's picture

Not an expert.  But the close storage is (I think) for short term.  Rods out of the reactor are kept there for cool-down and to let the shorter term decay to mainly finish.  Once they settle down, they can more easily be moved to a further location, and (I've read) even be stored open air, as they aren't that bad when cooled, properly spaced and not freshly juiced.  The "fresh out of the oven" state seems to be awkward, and the quickest/shortest path from out of the core to safely stored makes sense.  So putting the storage pool right next to the core make for easy handling; the safety aspects of that design are debatable and currently under stress testing at Fukushima.

The pools might also be used for staging new (fresh) rods that are to be put into the reactor.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:51 | Link to Comment My Days Are Get...
My Days Are Getting Fewer's picture

Again, why are the spent rods stored on site?

 

Why are they not trucked away and stuffed into a cave?

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:04 | Link to Comment mynhair
mynhair's picture

They aren't stuffed into a cave because Reid lives there.  You ask again, I might have to get upset.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:49 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

Fuck that!  I already lost my patience!  He asks again, how's about he wins a free all expenses paid 3 week trip to the wondrous Fujifukyomomma Nuclear Reactor Site.  Gets all the Tyvek suits he desires, face masks, a cute little helmet and rubber booties.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:08 | Link to Comment samsara
samsara's picture

A newby or naive. 

ALL nuclear sites store spent fuel ON SITE.  Every one of the US plants have tons and tons of Hot spent fuel on site and Tons of low grade spent fuel in drums all over their site.

Do a couple googles and a little research.

WHY do they do it?  Because NO BODY WANTS IT.  So to hide the problem they "Temporarily" store it for Years on site.  Until  a "Permanent" storage is found.  Yucca Mountain?  or other 'We don't want it here" sites.

EVERY site has TONS of spent fuel stored.

 

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:12 | Link to Comment Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

They have to be cooled at all times. Just because they are spent doesn't mean they're not hot. Once something has been bombarded with neutrons, there is no "stuffing it into a cave". Hope this helps. I somehow think i will regret this.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:44 | Link to Comment tactical nuke
tactical nuke's picture

You're right for the most part, except that you can eventually stuff it in a cave. The decay heat curve is an exponential decay, so after some amount of time (time spent operating, etc.) the fuel will be cool enough to remove from the storage pools and put into dry casks. Most sites have the pools for the recently retired spent fuel from an outage and also have a giant on-site parking lot which they store all of the "dry" spent fuel in enormous casks.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 20:53 | Link to Comment Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

Who would have thought the Bank of Japan would trade stocks with its member banks? (sarc) Insanity is not owned by the Fed.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:11 | Link to Comment mynhair
mynhair's picture

As reported earlier, BoJ is buying stocks in person.

Some grey haired old fart shows up and doubles the bid.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:01 | Link to Comment davepowers
davepowers's picture

Didn't Ronald Reagan used to advertise a product called 20 Mule Team Borax on the GE sponsored western.

What was the name of that show?

And do they still make 20 Mule Team Borax?

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:08 | Link to Comment mynhair
mynhair's picture

Yes, they still make it.  I want to know who has Felsnaptha bars in their area.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:43 | Link to Comment Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

Just buy $25 worth and get the free shipping...

http://www.amazon.com/Dial-Corp-04303-Fels-Naptha-Laundry/dp/B001B32NVO

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:47 | Link to Comment higgins
higgins's picture

Yes, they still make it. Use it with every load of laundry. The stuff rocks. Good cleaner as well. Sometimes you can't beat the old fashioned stuff.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 22:05 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Da show was called "Death Valley Days"

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:07 | Link to Comment WTFisThat
WTFisThat's picture

Not sure how reliable this interactive map is:

http://www.targetmap.com/viewer.aspx?reportId=4870

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:17 | Link to Comment SunBlaster
SunBlaster's picture

- LATEST

They just raised maximum radiation level for workers by 2.5 to 250msv so now they can legaly be forced to go out to No#4 reactor cooling pods

How much can 50 people do?

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:30 | Link to Comment RmcAZ
RmcAZ's picture

Source?

If that's true, this has officially become a joke.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:19 | Link to Comment moofph
moofph's picture

...earthquake magnitude upgraded to 9.0...I.Q. of world leaders downgraded to -0.005...revolution continues in a holding pattern...buy the facts, sell the propaganda.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:42 | Link to Comment Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

The earthquake magniture was upgraded to 9.0 so that some insurance companies could walk free. The fleecing of the people of Japan by the insolvent TBTF banks has entered a new stage.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:21 | Link to Comment flrzero
flrzero's picture

#4 was under maintenace and did not have fuel rods in the core. They are outside the reactor and are "spent fuel rods". They are placed in the "swimming pool" as the guru on NHK referred to it. The problem is that this water has to be circulated and replenished. The spent fuel rods need to be cooled for a prolonged time.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:23 | Link to Comment Drag Racer
Drag Racer's picture

just got a live shot of the reactors from a helicopter miles away

a lot of steam coming from what appears to be reactor 2

my guess is they lost it and meltdown is happening, but lets hope they are just flooding it with water...

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-world-tv

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:29 | Link to Comment Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

They are just making cappuccinos in there.  Get long Cuisinart and stat.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 23:30 | Link to Comment Drag Racer
Drag Racer's picture

the camera view was 180 deg from what I thought it was. It turns out it is reactor 3 according to the press conference. They also mentioned it is presumed the containment vessel has been breached. This is not good...

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:26 | Link to Comment Worker Bee
Worker Bee's picture

I never knew Amerika had sooo many nuclear plant specialist!!

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:59 | Link to Comment ThisIsBob
ThisIsBob's picture

...and not enough plumbers - Just like the teams that designed the plants.

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:27 | Link to Comment flrzero
flrzero's picture

Actually, NHK said it was from around reactor 4. My guess is that they dumped a large quantity of water into number 4 (into the pool).

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:35 | Link to Comment Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

This all seems part of a plan.
Just like the BP GOM poisoning.
Or nazi Bayer poisoning of honey bees in America:

http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1808&category=Environment

Leaked EPA memo about Bayer's deadly poison:
http://www.panna.org/sites/default/files/Memo_Nov2010_Clothianidin.pdf

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:49 | Link to Comment jerry_theking_lawler
jerry_theking_lawler's picture

white 'smoke' coming from the plant...how much you wanna bet its steam, means uncontrolled release of radioactive material and total meltdown approaching!!

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 21:54 | Link to Comment Worker Bee
Worker Bee's picture

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/yokosonews

 

News conference with tepco....clusterfuck

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 22:07 | Link to Comment WTFisThat
WTFisThat's picture

Not sure if this was posted already, looks to me as the Gov is pushing hard:

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national/T110315004235.htm

Tue, 03/15/2011 - 22:17 | Link to Comment dbTX
dbTX's picture

where is jesse jackson?

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!