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As TEPCO Reports Increased Possible Radiation Release, Japan Expands Voluntary Evacuation Radius To 30 km

Tyler Durden's picture




 

The latest news from Fukushima continue progressing from bad to worse. Which of course means that the (physical) silver lining around the mushroom cloud will be that much more potent: after all, the greater the destruction, the higher the Russell 2000. Just ask the Keynesians.

  • FUKUSHIMA REACTOR VESSEL MAY HAVE STUCK VALVE, UCS SAYS
  • TEPCO FINDS POOLED WATER AT ALL FOUR TROUBLED REACTORS: KYODO
  • INCREASED RADIATION RELEASE FROM FUKUSHIMA POSSIBLE, UCS SAYS

This in turn has prompted the Japanese government to increase the "voluntary" evacuation radius from 20 to 30 kms, finally. Shortly, this will be 80. But not before many more innocent people are irradiated and sacrificed at the altar of Nikkei 10,000 (and RUT 36,000).

From Kyodo:

The Japanese government on Friday encouraged people living within 20 to 30 kilometers of the troubled nuclear power plant in Fukushima Prefecture to leave voluntarily, citing concerns over access to daily necessities, while maintaining its directive for them to remain indoors and for residents within 20 km of the plant to evacuate.

The government asked heads of affected municipalities to encourage people to voluntarily move farther away, promising to provide its full support in helping them to relocate, Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano told a news conference.

But he stopped short of declaring an evacuation advisory to avoid fanning fears about the increasing danger of radiation leaks, despite criticism from concerned municipalities and local residents of the central government's ''slow response'' over the evacuation instruction.

On a possible new directive from the government, Edano said the Nuclear Safety Commission of Japan is looking into the possibility of whether an evacuation directive can be issued on the basis of living conditions rather than safety concerns. Evacuation directives to date have all been linked to concerns about radiation levels.

In a televised message to the public, Prime Minister Naoto Kan said his government is basing its decisions regarding evacuation advisories on the judgment of nuclear experts mainly from the commission.

The Nuclear Safety Commission of Japan, a government panel, also recommended voluntary evacuation the same day for residents 20 to 30 km from the Fukushima Daiichi complex, saying the release of radioactive materials from the plant is expected to continue for some time.

Bearing in mind the shortage of supplies for people stuck indoors within the 30-km radius, the government had been looking into possibly extending its evacuation range but, according to a government source, decided against it because expanding the directive simply because of living conditions would ''cause confusion.''

The government is not planning at the moment to expand the designated exclusion zone, Edano said, noting there has been no fresh information about the levels of radiation since the government issued its directives.

With many affected residents already voluntarily evacuating from around the plant and more wanting to follow, Edano said it is ''preferable'' for people to leave of their own accord, given the difficulties they are encountering in their daily lives.

In the meantime, now that Tokyo has neither running nor bottled water, those particular 14 million residents are certainly giving a long hard look at at the voluntary evacuation option themselves. Which will be GDP bullish.

 

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Fri, 03/25/2011 - 11:37 | 1099666 Contra_Man
Contra_Man's picture

Games, it's all seemingly a horrible game all around this 10 unit nuclear site - and in top level international planning and disaster co-ordination... 5 days for "Operation Extension Cord" et al :(  Bless the innocent

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 11:46 | 1099757 jus_lite_reading
jus_lite_reading's picture

HOLY MOSES!!! 3 reactors now confirmed breached!!

http://fiatsfire.blogspot.com/2011/03/fukushima-faces-facts-on-nuclear-b...

WHOOPS! They must have lost that in translation!!

 

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:38 | 1100045 davepowers
davepowers's picture

the good news is that the source (Kyodo) that  fiatsfire cites does not confirm a breach. Only the possibility and more investigation needed.

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 14:03 | 1100427 markelshark
markelshark's picture

Just to keep radiation exposure in perspective:

http://xkcd.com/radiation/

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 14:04 | 1100435 A Man without Q...
A Man without Qualities's picture

Apologies for jumping into the chain here, but there is an excellent blog on Reuters that's providing an update of events.

http://live.reuters.com/Event/Japan_earthquake2

 

It's clear the situation is pretty dire, and the narrative that the things are "under control" is patently false.  The best case scenario is massive economic damage to the country.

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 16:04 | 1100996 davepowers
davepowers's picture

sorry, they're putting the blog on hold 

 

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 19:15 | 1101565 horseguards
Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:01 | 1099834 TheMerryPrankster
TheMerryPrankster's picture

Homer Simpson REALLY IS the face of nuclear safety and management. These silly fuckers managing the repairs at the reactors can't even send in guys with knee high boots or hip boots, something that should have been done when doing repairs in water in any non-nuclear area, so its something that especially should have been done in a radiation situation.

No, they send in 3 contractors with ankle high boots, aka shoes and apparently no radiation monitoring devices to work in pools of radioactive water. This shows they haven't even done a radioactive survey of the areas of the plant site. So it turns out the water was 10,000 times more radioactive than "normal reactor water" and the workers received radiation burns on their feet and legs.

Management must think "we can't be liable if we didn't know" and they apparently plan on trying very very hard to know nothing for as long as possible.

Homer Simpson is real and is managing operations director of all nuclear plants in Japan.

Duoh!

donuts,ummmmmmmmmmm

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:13 | 1099869 Thomas
Thomas's picture

Radiation, breachez! Evacuate Nikkei 9000s!

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 14:56 | 1100735 MSimon
MSimon's picture

Nikkei 9000s!

 

HAL 9000s!

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 15:05 | 1100759 MSimon
MSimon's picture

Nikkei 9000s!

 

HAL 9000s!

 

Ask Dave.

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:09 | 1099877 homersimpson
homersimpson's picture

Did I just get promoted in Japan! Woo-hoo!

Hey - do you still want the rest of that donut?

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 14:04 | 1100442 flattrader
flattrader's picture

Homer,

No need to move to Japan.

TEPCO may be coming to Texas.

http://www.uncommonthought.com/mtblog/archives/2011/03/15/the-no-bs-info...

Greg Palast was an excellent investigative reporter.  He went into a downward spiral at one time.  The above link seems to be the kind of reporting that I admired.

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:12 | 1099887 MaxPower
MaxPower's picture

We have a saying in the nukular power community: you can only rise to the level of your own incompetence.

Hence my name, Max Power.

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:20 | 1099922 jus_lite_reading
jus_lite_reading's picture

Here we have the most technologically advanced nation, and they send in workers wearing duct tape and plastic bags. WTF?

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:27 | 1099971 Infinite QE
Infinite QE's picture

Where the F are the robots? They make robots for damn near everything, why not for this?

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:36 | 1100028 Harmonious_Diss...
Harmonious_Dissonance's picture

Radiation kills robots too, and fast. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zx739LOE8U

 

Bio-Robots needed, volunteers?

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:39 | 1100035 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

They are too busy killing brown people in other hotspots.

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 13:06 | 1100174 Unlawful Justice
Unlawful Justice's picture

That would be a waste of valuable resources.  It's what they do, that tells you the real story.  

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 14:32 | 1100582 knukles
knukles's picture

Update;

Had the supposedly most technically advanced nation.....

More at 7.

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:32 | 1100004 jus_lite_reading
jus_lite_reading's picture

WHOA! Passengers in China now treated with severe radiation levels!

http://fiatsfire.blogspot.com/2011/03/fukushima-faces-facts-on-nuclear-b...

Breaking news!

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 13:24 | 1100237 Arch Duke Ferdinand
Arch Duke Ferdinand's picture

Ladies and Gentlemen,

North America is facing a major decision in the next few days and weeks.

.....How many Japanese immigrants do we allow into North America should Fukashima be declared a National Disaster?

tia

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 13:34 | 1100285 avonaltendorf
avonaltendorf's picture

All of them. Intelligent, civil, industrious.

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 13:51 | 1100357 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Egypt should make a play for them.  Could be a very productive move on everyone's part.

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 14:23 | 1100526 iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

How bout Mexico!  Be a good fit, and positive for both cultures..

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 14:36 | 1100594 knukles
knukles's picture

Got lots of empty houses need taking care of,
Communities to be reinvigorated,

And in exchange, Japan can forgive us our debt they hold

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 14:48 | 1100660 dugorama
dugorama's picture

It's easy to imagine that if things worsen to say a 100km exclusion zone, 30 <i>million</i> or so people will need to relocate.  So when you say "all of them", I think you should consider what that might mean.  We would certainly no longer have a surplus of housing.  And what if Tokyo can no longer be inhabited?  That makes it 50 or 60 million.

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 11:30 | 1099668 AN0NYM0US
AN0NYM0US's picture

Cat looks like I am headed for defeat with our wager -

 

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 14:15 | 1100492 fuu
fuu's picture

You may win mine though as the rate is above 5% still which was my call.

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 15:01 | 1100749 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

I assure you it's a bet I would be more than happy to lose.

Six days to go but today and tomorrow the winds are still heading inland. No chance to vent off pressure/hydrogen.

Let's keep our fingers crossed.

Fri, 03/25/2011 - 11:37 | 1099674 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture
  • TEPCO FINDS POOLED WATER AT ALL FOUR TROUBLED REACTORS: KYODO
  • Pooled water in the water pools?  Inconceivable.
    Or could it be some unknown heat source melted the snow? 
    Or maybe it has something to do with all the firetrucks?

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 11:45 | 1099738 TaxSlave
    TaxSlave's picture

    No, water draining from the cores themselves.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:37 | 1100038 Stuck on Zero
    Stuck on Zero's picture

    Pooled water means that something within the containment dome has let loose.  It's not likely to be the pressure vessel so that leaves the feedwater pipes.  Ugh.  That has always been the nightmare for nuclear designers - the unsprung mass of the pressure vessel and the brittleness of the coolant pipes.  If they break leak it's impossible to cool the core until it melts through the bottom of the pressure vessel.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 11:34 | 1099683 alien-IQ
    alien-IQ's picture

    "30 Km" might be a zero shy of appropriate.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 11:46 | 1099753 Oh regional Indian
    Oh regional Indian's picture

    bye bye Tokyo then. 

    ORI

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:19 | 1099931 jus_lite_reading
    jus_lite_reading's picture

    This is bullish... or bullshit more appropriately

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 11:36 | 1099688 buzzsaw99
    buzzsaw99's picture

    This is bullish.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 11:50 | 1099784 DaveyJones
    DaveyJones's picture

    or half of that word

    "an evacuation directive can be issued on the basis of living conditions rather than safety concerns"

    don't think of it as a flight to safety, consider it more, outgrowing your condo

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:39 | 1100041 avonaltendorf
    avonaltendorf's picture

    Solid journalism on semi-ghost towns, lack of supplies, confusion.

    http://www.asahi.com/english/TKY201103240185.html

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 13:15 | 1100197 flattrader
    flattrader's picture

    That was an interesting read.

    The psychology of manipulation in this situation is something to watch and learn from.

     

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 14:43 | 1100549 10kby2k
    10kby2k's picture

    They can expand the evac zone without directly stating its nuclear related.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 14:51 | 1100697 flattrader
    flattrader's picture

    Yes.  Exactly.  That was the point I was making [or trying to make].

     

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 14:16 | 1100498 Natasha
    Natasha's picture

    Thanks for that link.

    Informative.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 11:59 | 1099817 1fortheroad
    1fortheroad's picture

    Stronger than expected possible radiation. Definitely bullish. Rally on.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 11:35 | 1099689 Golden monkey
    Golden monkey's picture

    Is it too late to drop sand now?

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:26 | 1099966 Ahmeexnal
    Ahmeexnal's picture

    And too late to build a cooling chamber under the reactors.  As each minute goes by, it all seems to indicate there is a hidden agenda behind the inaction of those responsible in this event.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 14:38 | 1100614 knukles
    knukles's picture

    Yes indeed, methinks the conspiracy theorists are about to have a bloody global celebration...
    This just could not be more fucked up if somebody truly tried. 
    Hard.
    Kinda like some other "things" going on these days.... people, decisions, places and things.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 11:37 | 1099690 Careless Whisper
    Careless Whisper's picture

    USS Ronald Reagan gets "nuclear wahsdown"

    http://militarytimes.com/blogs/line-of-sight/2011/03/24/radiation-washdown/

     

     

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:14 | 1099899 vast-dom
    vast-dom's picture

    AND UH EXACTLY WHERE IS THAT WASH WASTE GOING ;)

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:25 | 1099954 Cindy_Dies_In_T...
    Cindy_Dies_In_The_End's picture

    Its the next Surprise ingredient on Iron Chef.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 17:01 | 1101183 TheMerryPrankster
    TheMerryPrankster's picture

    "I was surprized at first by the glowing yellow cake with strawberries and dolphin pate but after the 1st bite I wanted more. Yes More, very good I can't wait to see how he prepares the plutonium spinach salad" - anonymous young japanese lady diner on Iron Chef  Level 7, Tokyo style.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 14:38 | 1100557 gmj
    gmj's picture

    The ship picked up that contamination from an airborne radioactive plume.  For the sake of explanation, let's say the plume is 1,000 square miles.  Let's guess the surface area of the ship is 200 x 1,000 feet, or 200,000 square feet.  1,000 square miles is 28 billion square feet, which is 140,000 times the area of the ship.  Radiation is falling into the ocean over that whole area.  So the amount being washed off the ship is completely insignificant.  Remember that I am just assigning a number to the size of the plume.  I have no idea how big it actually is.

    The tsunami wiped out huge greenhouse installations.  The radiation will now affect the fisheries and field crops.  It's a perfect storm for their food supply.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 14:41 | 1100622 knukles
    knukles's picture

    Back in the same bay/ocean that it was pumped from.
    Or if we wanted to be truly entrepreneurial, they could catch the runoff, bottle it and sell it in Tokyo.  Be no bigger lie or criminal action than the Japanese government has already committed misleading its own populace, let alone the rest of the world.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:20 | 1099927 metastar
    metastar's picture

    It looks to me like they're just watering the lawn. It is spring, so there is lots of yellow pollen out at sea.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:21 | 1099929 divide_by_zero
    divide_by_zero's picture

    They've got a full radiological lab on board, must've had some Pu hits.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:48 | 1100093 flattrader
    flattrader's picture

    I think you're right re: Pu.

    And there's no more mention of Strontium 90 levels.

    I think what they are NOT NOW reporting is a tell.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 17:18 | 1101227 trav7777
    trav7777's picture

    Cs137 and Sr90 more likely.  Those have long enough half-lives to be problematic but their regs would require a hosedown even for i-131

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 11:37 | 1099691 LawsofPhysics
    LawsofPhysics's picture

    This is beyond bullish.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 11:36 | 1099695 the not so migh...
    the not so mighty maximiza's picture

    this is pathetic, there should be a global mobilzation to fix this.  Time for some real leaders

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 11:40 | 1099721 SheepDog-One
    SheepDog-One's picture

    Oh no, that might adversely effect a stock!

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 11:46 | 1099755 Oh regional Indian
    Oh regional Indian's picture

    hah! Funny!

    ORI

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 14:45 | 1100644 knukles
    knukles's picture

    Well, that's OK if it'll only effect one stock.

    And then again, there's not enough leadership out there to effect the whole market, so don't panic. 

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 11:47 | 1099750 overmedicatedun...
    overmedicatedundersexed's picture

    "this is pathetic, there should be a global mobilzation to fix this.  Time for some real leaders"

    LOL, yah call Obuma he's just rounding the 9th hole with a great score.

     

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 11:47 | 1099763 buzzsaw99
    buzzsaw99's picture

    His short game is improving daily.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 11:53 | 1099797 Don Birnam
    Don Birnam's picture

    He probably plays with a level sportsmanship on par with Auric Goldfinger.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 11:57 | 1099808 jerry_theking_lawler
    jerry_theking_lawler's picture

    he'll have to wait a bit after finishing golf because he needs to update his bracket...

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:37 | 1100037 Miss Expectations
    Miss Expectations's picture

    Unfortunately, they went with global monetization instead.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 13:57 | 1100397 Jim in MN
    Jim in MN's picture

    dingdingding and we have a WINNAH!

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 22:33 | 1101979 DizzyFish
    DizzyFish's picture

    Great idea. How about leading from the bottom? The company I work for has a Tokyo office and an office at my location. I have a modest spare room that could accommodate 2 people (plus household pets throughout my home), albeit they'd have to travel halfway across the world. Not a bad thing, I'd think, unless a grandiose, irradiated apartment (without pets) was preferrable. I'd gladly make that available - would anyone else?

    ZHers seem to be all talk about action, although in many cases it is about 'other people' taking action: otherwise hoarding stocks of food, guns, PMs etc. I don't have a problem with folks looking out for themselves, and I wish I had more reserves to do more of this and BTFDs myself. In the ongoing circumstances, however, perhaps we could look at our own limited abilities to do the right thing. Put money where mouth is...?

    I've lurked for a while without posting, but this topic torments me and I'm moved to contribute. Good wishes to all who are concerned, regardless of whether or not you really need to be concerned - in the physical survival versus monetary profit sense, that is.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 11:37 | 1099697 reading
    reading's picture

    Can some one overlay the dead zone from Chernobyl over Japan?  Given that Japan isn't very large, I wonder how much -- comparatively -- it would take up?

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 11:44 | 1099733 SayTabserb
    SayTabserb's picture

    The Chernobyl restricted zone is 15,000 square miles, or the prox. size of Switzerland. The island of Honshu is about 89,000 square miles. If Fukushima results in a Chernobyl sized restriction, then about 1/6th of the island, or basically the entire north of Honshu, maybe including Tokyo.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 11:59 | 1099827 reading
    reading's picture

    Thanks for the information.  I did do some additional digging on this topic and as always am amazed by the scope of coverage from Chernobyl that still remains highly dangerous and will for many many centuries.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:54 | 1100126 iDealMeat
    iDealMeat's picture

    uhh...  To even begin to get an idea of "dead zone" you'll need to multiply all Chernobyl #'s * 6.  Then add a multiple of your guessing to account for 40 years of spent fuel rods packed and stacked in the hot pools... That's Fukushima..

     

    Goodby Japan...  And if by misfortune the winds change, Good by N.K., S.K., And a big chunk of China.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 14:05 | 1100446 Jim in MN
    Jim in MN's picture

    But don't forget the part that's ocean.  Really need maps for this kind of thing.And Chernobyl, given time, was reduced to more like 10,000 square kilometers of restricted area. 

    The big thing is, there is a rugged upland area (like Big Sur) between the plant and the Kanto Plain.  That is the buffer.  If a lot of long-lived elements get down into the Tokyo/Kanto area we will see something of truly epic proportions.  If not, well, would you notice if Big Sur just had a big fence around it?  Maybe it does and no one's noticed :*)

    Wonder if TEPCO looked for plutonium yet...since they hadn't as of yesterday...

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 14:41 | 1100619 iDealMeat
    iDealMeat's picture

    Exactly..  The immediate ocean is increasing toxicity by the minute. As the winds swirl around and up mountains it continues to rain down and percolate throughout the country.

    And this is all from 1 (one) facility.. Japan has 50 somethin Nuke sites. And they're still sitting on the Ring of Fire.. You can bet from here on out any slight tremor will scare the holy shit out of them.. No one trusts the food, water, or govt..

    They're @ end game.. time to go..

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 16:44 | 1101130 gmj
    gmj's picture

    I haven't analyzed it to death, but it seems to me that Japan can't afford to lose much of its land, especially its lowlands.  It is densely populated, and only about 12% is useful for agriculture.  Whereas Ukraine and Belarus were not densely populated when Chernobyl occurred, and 27% of their land area is useful for agriculture.  

    https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/bo.html

    Also, the land area of the former USSR was absolutely gigantic.

    Take a look at this topo map:

    http://www.worldofmaps.net/uploads/pics/topographie_japan.jpg

    Click on the map to zoom in.  If the wind swings to the south, it looks to me like the airborne contamination gets funneled directly into an air trap over Tokyo, because of the mountains to the west and south.  Sort of like the LA smog trap.  Does anyone have expert input on this?

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 17:04 | 1101187 ColonelCooper
    ColonelCooper's picture

    Japan is a nation of 120 million-ish people living on a few islands whose total area is smaller than California.  I would say they couldn't have afforded to lose a couple of hundred square feet.

    Part of the reason I get so pissed at the people blowing this shit off is because the end ISN'T EVEN IN SIGHT.

    "You guys all suck, the radiation went DOWN in the drinking water, Pussies!!"  Yeah, maybe cause it quit raining?  How about tomorrow?  "I'd give that water to MY kids."  Go tell that to a mother in Tokyo.  "I'd eat THAT spinach/fish."  Well maybe YOU would, but that's of small consolation to the farmers/fishermen who won't be able to sell their product for a half life at best.

    If they don't get a handle on this soon, Japan is fuckerballed.  And if you shill/sheeple aren't worried about radiation, maybe the economic fallout that's gonna come of this will get you looking up at that falling sky.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 17:22 | 1101236 InfinityZero
    InfinityZero's picture

    Fukushima is worse than Chernobyl because the fission material is up in the air and not into a deep hole that can be buried. So Tokyo will be evacuated.

    So if you are reading this and is at Tokyo, get the hell out of there! Now!

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 11:47 | 1099743 flattrader
    flattrader's picture

    Here is the map from yesterday.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/skiptic/5555632763/

    Don't really know how useful it is in predictive terms.

    Wind patterns, aquifers, contaminant levels are different.

    It does give you a sense of scale though.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 11:47 | 1099754 Obaminator
    Obaminator's picture

    Go do some research. Chernobyl was a DIFFERENT type of reactor that experienced an Open FIRE of the Nuclear Fuel which then went Sub-Critical and Exploded. Its reactors are completely different than Japans. Japans can go to 100% Meltdown (I think they already did) and not explode the way Cher did.

    Nagasaki and Hiroshima are now Huge modern cities....we are taught that Nuclear explosions make places uninhabital for 1000's of year...Obviously not true.

    Does anyone friggin do any real homework on stuff or do ya'll just listen to the friggin media hype?

    pitiful.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 11:58 | 1099814 reading
    reading's picture

    Excuse me asshole, if you were directing that comment at me, but I have done much research thank you.  First of all you might want to do some research on what is actually in those reactors which was not a factor in Hiroshima or Nagasaki.  And, while the explosion at Chernobyl was horrific the release of radiation does not require an explosion in Japan to be equally as dangerous.  I think you need to go do some f*cking research, asshole.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:02 | 1099818 Kina
    Kina's picture

    Smoke, steam, fire at Fukushima smothering Tokyo nothing to worry about then. Jeez...maybe you should do some homework and be able to think beyond your uranium stocks.

     

    Shills, sock puppets and uranium investors doing their best to say 4 out of control damaged nuclear reactors is a nothing burger, nothing to see, no risk at all to anybody in Japan, and especially not to one of the major economic driving forces of the world. total idiot.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 21:46 | 1101920 RichardP
    RichardP's picture

    I've been reading here since the earthquake.  Nobody has said what you just said.  No one has ever claimed that there is no risk at all to anybody in Japan.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:02 | 1099850 MarkTwain00
    MarkTwain00's picture

    Most of the radioactive material is used up in a nuclear explosion like in the A-bomb and does not linger and affect the area like a meltdown does....check chernobyl they say it will continue to be a dead zone for a looong time.

    I am not saying it will be as bad as everyone thinks but to compare it Hiroshima and Nagasaki doesn't prove anything.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 17:20 | 1101235 trav7777
    trav7777's picture

    horseshit.

    Most of the material is not used up in an A-bomb.  Do not speak if you are this ignorant.

    Sat, 03/26/2011 - 03:49 | 1101921 FilthyLucre
    FilthyLucre's picture

    How many mega curies of Cs137, Sr90, I131 and those other friendly isotopes are found in your average A-bomb? A fission bomb per se. And how many mega curies are in your average 800 tons of spent fuel rods?

    As a by the by. You do know that Ad Hominem attacks are the lowest form of logical fallacy, don't you? As you seem to think you are so smart and informed I can't imagine this could have escaped your attention - that was an ad hominem but maybe too subtle for you - oh another.

    The bit I don't understand is if you aren't a paid shill then what is your motive for continually posting this crap?

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:02 | 1099851 InconvenientCou...
    InconvenientCounterParty's picture

    save your pity my friend.

    For two weeks, the slow spew of Ce137 has continued. Steam here, smoke there, sometimes convection simply carries dust. The wind has blown inland a few times and will continue.

    IN TWO WEEKS you have 500mSv/hr in the soil 30 km away.

    3-5 Svhr is considered unfit for humans.

    Why don't you offer a number of weeks when the Ce137 spew will stop. Then just to the math. In two short weeks, a 30km ring is off-limits for pregnant women. the half life is decades. Pity indeed.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 17:24 | 1101243 trav7777
    trav7777's picture

    I didn't know they had a Cerium contamination problem.

    Look, if you can't even get the element right, you have no business even having an opinion on this.

    Nevermind your mistakes about the sievert ranges

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:14 | 1099896 TheMerryPrankster
    TheMerryPrankster's picture

    Chernobyl was not a NUCLEAR explosion, any on site explosions were likely hydrogen or other stored fuels on site. It is difficult to make fissile materials initiate a self sustaining chain reaction - ie nuclear explosion. Otherwise every vein of pitchblende or other uranium ore would be popping off a mushroom cloud every 15 minutes.

    That said it becomes obvious the radiation at Chernobyl was spread by fires, mostly caused by the graphite control rods getting overheated and bursting into flames. While Japan's reactors don't use graphite control rods, it appears the reactors are open to the atmosphere, like Chernobyl, since the containment has been breeched and the radiation is being vented at ground level, like Chernobyl.

     

    You don't need a nuclear explosion to spread a crap load of radioactive elements around, as the theory of a dirty bomb would prove. Think of the reactors and fuel rods as many little dirty bombs, spewing crap for several weeks now.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:27 | 1099947 Ident 7777 economy
    Ident 7777 economy's picture

    Chernobyl was not a NUCLEAR explosion, any on site explosions were likely

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Wiki could use your expertise in a re-write then; they claim a 'nuclear excursion' based on evidence of isotopes found in the area after the event.

    Quote:

    " ... the ratio of xenon radioisotopes released during the event provides compelling evidence that the second explosion was a nuclear power transient."

     

     

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster#Experiment_and_explosion

    Quote:

    A second, more powerful explosion occurred about two or three seconds after the first; evidence indicates that the second explosion resulted from a nuclear excursion.[23] The nuclear excursion dispersed the core and effectively terminated that phase of the event.

     

     

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:42 | 1100064 i-dog
    i-dog's picture

    WTF is a nuclear "excursion"? Is that somewhere between an "incident" and an "event" on the IAEA severity scale? My dictionary tends to shy away from equating an excursion (school trip) to a nuclear explosion (radioactive mass gone critical).

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:53 | 1100115 Stormdancer
    Stormdancer's picture

    Maybe fuel rods gone walkabout?

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 14:09 | 1100460 gina distrusts gov
    gina distrusts gov's picture

    WTF is a nuclear "excursion"?

    It is a a nuclear explosion with out the confinement for a full blown fission  reaction the fissile material is blown apart separated so the neutron density is reduced below  what is needed for a self sustaining reaction and the reaction stops  if  the core had been confined  inside a high pressure area  ie high explosives generated  zone you would have had the classical mushroom

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 16:54 | 1101161 SilverRhino
    SilverRhino's picture

    It's called a criticality.  (Little boom, blue flash, people die of radiation poisoning)

    Atomic explosions are supercritical nuclear fission reactions that use implosion to increase the yields.

    Then there are thermonuclear (fusion) weapoms but those are generally a whole order of magnitude bigger (and badder)

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 17:31 | 1101267 trav7777
    trav7777's picture

    an excursion is when core materials get out of the core.

    Chernobyl was inarguably not a nuclear explosion.  It was a steam explosion caused by the positive void coefficient of the RBMK design leading to massive steam pressure concomitant to rapid overheating of the core.  Essentially, it blew like old steam locomotives used to.  Same phenomena in play.

    However, the excursion of parts of the core did not cease the fission reaction because of the positive void coefficient of the reactor.  So long as sufficient graphite moderation was present, the fission was sustained.  However, this is far different from a nuclear explosion as reactors are designed to sustain fission. 

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 21:56 | 1101943 FilthyLucre
    FilthyLucre's picture

    >an excursion is when core materials get out of the core.

    No it isn't. To paraphrase trav7777 "if you can't even get your facts straight you don't deserve to have an opinion".

    The idea of a school trip to a nuclear plant holds more weight than what you said. Why do you think the fuel rods went on a trip? :rollseyes:

    An excursion is a power increase resulting from a runaway chain reaction.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:44 | 1100080 Harmonious_Diss...
    Harmonious_Dissonance's picture

    Your a total JackAss if you believe Wiki is a "trustwory" "fact checked" source. Good day to you, dumbass!

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:55 | 1100127 reading
    reading's picture

    Exactly, Wiki isn't an acceptable source for my daughter's 5th grade research report.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 13:00 | 1100143 Ident 7777 economy
    Ident 7777 economy's picture

    Fail; for reasons given previously

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 13:04 | 1100138 Ident 7777 economy
    Ident 7777 economy's picture


    by Harmonious_Diss, on Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:44 #1100080

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Fail; incorrect grammar in opening sentence: " Your a total JackAss ..." (maybe you meant "You're" which is a contraction for "You are". Reading the sentence as "You are a Jackass" may now make some sense)

     

    Fail; did not address the issue of Xenon isotopes found at site.

     

    Fail; Wiki is merely an internet portal. Did you check the reference they site as to who made the discovery and determination of the Xenon isotopes on site? (No, you probably didn't)

     

    Epic Fail; Reading comprehension on account of I suggested that Wiki needed a re-write given the previous poster's authority on the subject.

     

     

     

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 17:33 | 1101271 trav7777
    trav7777's picture

    Xe isotopes are a natural byproduct of fission.

    Chernobyl's excursion was caused by a number of things, none of which was an A-bomb style event.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:15 | 1099907 OMG
    OMG's picture
    by Obaminator
    on Fri, 03/25/2011 - 11:47
    #1099754

     

    Go do some research. Chernobyl was a DIFFERENT type of reactor that experienced an Open FIRE of the Nuclear Fuel which then went Sub-Critical and Exploded. Its reactors are completely different than Japans. Japans can go to 100% Meltdown (I think they already did) and not explode the way Cher did.

    Nagasaki and Hiroshima are now Huge modern cities....we are taught that Nuclear explosions make places uninhabital for 1000's of year...Obviously not true.

    Does anyone friggin do any real homework on stuff or do ya'll just listen to the friggin media hype?

    pitiful.

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^          ^^^^^^^^^

    TROLL ALERT******TROLL ALERT*****

    Go back to www.dennengerindenial.com

     

     

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 13:29 | 1100252 Commander Cody
    Commander Cody's picture

    The ignorance of how nuclear reactors work and how people presume to know facts about reactors on this site is very discouraging.  It only perpetuates misinformation.  The Chernobyl 4 reactor safety systems were shut off to do an unauthorized test because of time pressure.  This resulted in the operators losing control over the amount of reactivity produced in the reactor.  The core when prompt critical, not subcritical, and the energy released was many thousands of times greater than the reactor's ability to manage.  The energy caused coolant tubes to fail and the graphite moderator blocks to catch fire.  The pressure released caused the reactor shield blocks to be blown off and the building destroyed resulting in the damaged core to be open to the atmosphere.  The release of steam, heated air and smoke carried fission products from the core which were deposited over a large area.  The most contaminated area is a 40km ring around the plant.

    This was not a nuclear weapon type explosion.  That is only possible with uranium or plutonium that is much more highly concentrated than that in reactor fuel.  And then, it needs to be carefully constructed into specific shapes with an implosive secondary charge to initiate the blast - also a prompt critical event but of much more explosive force.

    Any bets on whether there are three melted cores at Fukushima Dai-ichi and four compromised spent fuel pools maybe going on five?

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 14:15 | 1100495 Jim in MN
    Jim in MN's picture

    Cody:

    Damn right.  But that reminds me, I did a rough calculation that told me the common fuel pool would be OK for about 10 days if the cooling was off.  Funny we haven't heard about that one.  Let's keep an eye out.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 15:38 | 1100903 Jack H Barnes
    Jack H Barnes's picture

    Common pool reported steaming issues in the last week... single announcement.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 16:53 | 1101155 Commander Cody
    Commander Cody's picture

    The spent fuel with the most decay heat is located in the fuel pool at each reactor with the top surface of the pool on the top floor of the buildings.

    I was surprised to learn today that the Fukushima Dai-ichi site has a common spent fuel pool.  I should not have been surprised as the Japanese have been committed to reprocessing and it is easier to repackage the spent fuel assemblies into a shipping cask from a spent fuel pool than it would be from a dry storage facility for shipment to the offsite reprocessing center.

    Dry storage systems in the US require fuel to be cooled for a minimum of 5 years before being allowed to be placed into dry storage.  Dry storage means just that: Put in a can that is dryed out and inerted (typically with helium).  The canisters typically hold anywhere from about 30 to 70 fuel assemblies.

    Back to the common pool.  Since the spent fuel in this pool has most likely been cooled for some time, the cooling needs of the pool are less per assembly than in the reactor pools.  Indeed, if these spent fuel assemblies have been in storage for an extended time, it may be entirely possible that the pool can go dry and the fuel assemblies and pool structure may remain intact just by radiant cooling (a fan would help a lot).  However, since the water provides shielding, the radiation shine from the pool would be very high.  Not good locally, but maybe not a cataclysmic situation for the region around the plant.

    The spent fuel pool at the long-closed Dresden Unit 1 in Illinois used to freeze in winter since it was neither being cooled nor warmed.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 14:56 | 1100554 PhattyBuoy
    PhattyBuoy's picture

    An "implosion" fission explosion may be achieved when a molten & marginally stable core is compressed by an explosion with sufficient force to set off an uncontrolled reaction. I believe a hydrogen explosion in close proximity to (beneath) the exposed unstable molten MOX core with sufficient force could trigger this event.

    At a minimum, this is a nasty dirty bomb.

    Check - 3 melted & 4 busted pools.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 18:12 | 1101401 Commander Cody
    Commander Cody's picture

    No matter how you cut it, a nuclear weapon-type explosion is impossible at a nuclear power reactor.  Yes, dirty bomb, but no mushroom cloud.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 20:54 | 1101777 PhattyBuoy
    PhattyBuoy's picture

    The 3 cores melted more than a week ago ... at the point in time where the roofs are lifted off the buildings from hydrogen blast (#1 &#3), the core is already 80% melted. 100% meltdown occurs shortly thereafter (within hours), as the core pool boils dry.

    The internal explosion in #2 signifies 80% meltdown ... #2 did not vent due to release valve failure (hence no hydrogen explosion), so it extruded under pressure the molten core from the primary vessel into bulb drywell in the bottom.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 21:07 | 1101833 trav7777
    trav7777's picture

    You "believe"?  How in the fuck exactly do you believe this?  I ask you so bluntly because it isn't even remotely close to true.  It's so absurdly false as to be laughable.

    Do you even vaguely understand the precision of the explosives that are necessary to achieve an implosion-style supercritical event?

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 21:26 | 1101881 PhattyBuoy
    PhattyBuoy's picture

    Trav - Yes - I hear you!

    The point is we are not dealing with a precision instrument here ...

    It is a completely unstable & unprotected molten MOX core, which does not require much of a nudge to go critical.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 14:46 | 1100659 flattrader
    flattrader's picture

    If you haven't read Richard Rhodes, The Making of the Atomic Bomb, you should.

    It's a long haul.

    http://www.amazon.com/Making-Atomic-Bomb-Richard-Rhodes/dp/0684813785

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 16:31 | 1101090 TheMerryPrankster
    TheMerryPrankster's picture

    I would recommend

    Uranium: War, Energy, and the Rock That Shaped the World

     By Tom Zoellner

     

    354 amazing pages that really makes you understand what is all about.

     

     

    http://books.google.com/books?id=XM67WMGwugYC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Ura...

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 17:14 | 1101211 stormsailor
    stormsailor's picture

    an incredible book, and if you learn the math, an equivalent of a masters in physics.

     

    richard rhodes, "the making of the atomic bomb"

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 17:38 | 1101282 trav7777
    trav7777's picture

    thank god someone gets it.

    The fuel type of the RBMK also was not conducive to a nuclear explosion as the sole PURPOSE of the RBMK was to permit fission of U238 and other very LEU blends, expanding the effective scale of fuel reserves.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:18 | 1099920 PhattyBuoy
    PhattyBuoy's picture

    "and not explode the way Cher did" ...

    You are 100% correct.

    If one of these blows worst case, they all blow ...

    10s of Megatons !!

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:25 | 1099953 alien-IQ
    alien-IQ's picture

    sounds like it'll be a lovely place to live...can we help you pack?

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:43 | 1100061 ColonelCooper
    ColonelCooper's picture

    "do ya'll just listen to the friggin media hype?"

    Dumbest comment of the day.  Guaranteed.

    The media is so busy downplaying this it is unreal.  Aside from all the doctors telling you that THEY would eat the spinach, you can't hardly find a story now.  Not one MSM outlet is pushing to get REAL radiation numbers from Japan.

    " Japans can go to 100% Meltdown (I think they already did) and not explode the way Cher did."

    The explosion is irrelevant if the cores breach and the pools cook off.  The only thing saving them so far is that the winds are blowing offshore.

    The efforts to play this down, and to say you cannot compare it to Chernobyl are fading by the day, as basically nothing is being done to STOP THE EMMISSIONS.  IF some of these cores are breached, and IF these spent fuel pools are sitting there empty while their contents cook off, and IF a long term plan to stop this fucker isn't implemented soon, the POTENTIAL for this to eclipse Chernobyl is definitely there, considering the number of affected reactors and their pools.

    Regardless of the "RATING" of this clusterfuck, it will have a much greater adverse effect on Japan than Chernobyl did, simply because of the small land mass on which it occured.  So how about you go shill somewhere else. 

    Screw the homework, go get your fucking shinebox.

    BTW, I was junk #11.

     

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:52 | 1100120 flattrader
    flattrader's picture

    >>>Regardless of the "RATING" of this clusterfuck, it will have a much greater adverse effect...<<<

    I bet we get a new rating system out of this.  No sarcasm intended.

    This is uncharted territory.

    What a way to get an object lesson...

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 13:03 | 1100157 ColonelCooper
    ColonelCooper's picture

    Sad as shit isn't it? 

    Why is it that trolls all assume that we only care for our own damn asses, and do not grieve for Japan?  Is that a look into the psyche of the troll personality?

    Calling CD for a diagnosis......

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 13:13 | 1100189 PhattyBuoy
    PhattyBuoy's picture

    Coops, at this time, I am seriously worried about my ass, and I am 5000 miles away.

    If I was in Tokyo I would be terrified ...

    Don't you miss the whipping boy johnny?

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 13:20 | 1100218 ColonelCooper
    ColonelCooper's picture

    You just justified your first sentence with your second.

    You got young kids?

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 13:30 | 1100249 PhattyBuoy
    PhattyBuoy's picture

    16 & 20. I figure my 16 year old son is getting lined up perfectly for a draft in 12/13.

    My daughter recently said "why is all this stuff happening in my generation?"

    Yourself?

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 13:38 | 1100305 ColonelCooper
    ColonelCooper's picture

    12 and 14.  My 14 year old has had a somewhat cynical "Coop" upbringing, and is kind of a news junkie.  The other day, he sighed (or somesuch exasperated noise) and looked up from the laptop.  I asked him what was up, and he looked at me and said, "My generation is kinda fucked isn't it?" (First F bomb I ever heard him drop) Hard question to answer isn't it? 

    I asked about yours because of dairy products.  My understanding is this:

    Any fallout we are likely to recieve is going to be iodine, which will break down and disappear quickly ONCE the emmisions STOP.  The biggest health risk is from dairy because the cattle eat "dusted" feed and pass the iodine into their milk.  If I had small children, I would probably lay in a decent supply of powdered milk, and perhaps freeze a bunch of cheese.  The milk will keep for a long time, and can always be donated to a food shelf if it isn't needed.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 13:06 | 1100173 Contra_Man
    Contra_Man's picture

    +1

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 15:13 | 1100808 Roger Knights
    Roger Knights's picture

    "The media is so busy downplaying this it is unreal.  Aside from all the doctors telling you that THEY would eat the spinach, you can't hardly find a story now.  Not one MSM outlet is pushing to get REAL radiation numbers from Japan."

    Here's a link I posted in another thread to a long, hard-hitting LA Times story this morning complaining about how TEPCO et al. have been economical with the truth and have underplayed the situation's seriousness.

    http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-sci-japan-quake-secrecy...

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 11:54 | 1099774 Oh regional Indian
    Oh regional Indian's picture

    Plenty. Especially if the true dead zone is taken into account. If you do a few in-depth searches for Chernobyl effects, wayyyyy into Europe, it would cover all of it. But that would mean a massive dispersion event.

    Rain, wind, ocean, wherever it touches will be heavily impacted. I read an article about Chernobyl effects in Norway, ongoing by the way.

    Nuclear disaster's are gifts that keep on giving.

    ORI

    http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2011/03/24/lets-start-from-the-very-beginning-a-very-good/

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:07 | 1099875 flattrader
    flattrader's picture

    Some sheepherders in Wales are still banned from selling mutton.

    Wool must be OK, otherwise why would the bother at all?

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:17 | 1099915 Oh regional Indian
    Oh regional Indian's picture

    Wow! Interesting. Wales....

    Those welsh wool sweaters, now active wear...Hmmmm...

    ORI

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:58 | 1100135 reading
    reading's picture

    Hot market for glow in the dark woolies.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 11:44 | 1099699 whatz that smell
    whatz that smell's picture

    i love troubled reactors!... sounds like a bad childhood to me; embrace your inner reactor and come to love the bernank and his russell target.

    update: fat-fingered midget gary gensler said black snow swan events do not trouble reactors one itsy bit so bi da flipping d.i.p.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:18 | 1099925 redpill
    redpill's picture

    Troubled, like they have a mild case of depression, or perhaps had an argument with their spouse last week.

    Sat, 03/26/2011 - 02:44 | 1102364 StychoKiller
    StychoKiller's picture

    Just watch out for the "disgruntled" reactors, they could go "Postal!"

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 11:36 | 1099702 treemagnet
    treemagnet's picture

    I wonder where in the manual for the Mark I GE design manual you can find "spray water on it".

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 11:45 | 1099748 SayTabserb
    SayTabserb's picture

    It's in Subsection (S), subpart (O), subparagraph (L).

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 11:58 | 1099826 jerry_theking_lawler
    jerry_theking_lawler's picture

    yes, it read, "Turn on pumper truck, open valve completely, then GTHOOD".....

     

    GTHOOD...Get The Hell Out Of Dodge!!!

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:24 | 1099951 divide_by_zero
    divide_by_zero's picture

    Good one!

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 11:37 | 1099705 camaro68ss
    camaro68ss's picture

    tokyo will be a ghost town and the markets still go up. this is fucking crazy.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 14:02 | 1100426 Matte_Black
    Matte_Black's picture

    Even a week ago I would have said, Tokyo? naww...

    I feel less assured at this point.

    What news we get seems ever more ominous.

    Come to think of it, I can't think of a single moment when it appeared that they had a chance of bringing this thing under control.

    I'm beginning to wonder if the international community will eventually insist that TEPCO step aside so a more vigorous and competent group can take over.

    This, of course, would be an intolerable insult to the Japanese, but it is starting to look like an unavoidable eventuality.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 22:16 | 1101972 RichardP
    RichardP's picture

    I miss your point.  Conventional wisdom says the rods at this point are too cool to melt down to the water table - which was the real issue to be avoided.  Little by little they are increasing their ability to cover the exposed rods with water - which will eliminate the spread of radiation.  They still need a long-term solution for the hot rods (couldn't resist), but Tokyo is not going to be wiped out.  They've managed to constrain the disaster this far.  Trust that they will get the rest of the way.  It is a tragedy for the local area.  It is not a wipeout for all of Japan.  At this point.  If they get an 8.0 earthquake and another tsunami, a different conclusion may become appropriate.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 11:39 | 1099706 yipcarl
    yipcarl's picture

    Funny, I'm losing my ASS in TZA, the 3x short Russel and the position is 3 days old.  WTF is happening. 

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 11:43 | 1099736 Putty
    Putty's picture

    Leveraged ETFs decline in value over time through daily rebalancing.  I wouldn't hold any 3x leveraged etf for longer than a day, and that's pushing it.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 11:58 | 1099823 Muir
    Muir's picture

    What putty above said.

    or

    "WTF is happening"

    you answer yourself:

    "I'm losing my ASS in TZA, the 3x short Russel and the position is 3 days old."

    p.s.

    If you don't understand the above maybe you should buy gold (as much as I make fun of the gold bugs, maybe that's a better choice for you.

    -

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:07 | 1099872 yipcarl
    yipcarl's picture

    Thanks guys.  LOL.  I do this for a living.  I did a whole research report on the decay of 3x etf's.  LOL.  So many of you are so quick to give opinions like you know shit.  If you know so much shit why don't you shut the fuck up and go make money and stop typing here if you're so smart.  I use TZA like an option, I understand the risks.  MY point was simply what a fucking joke of a world we live in.  The Stock markets are totally contrived and controlled.  It would figure you dipshits wouldn't see my point but instead give me advice.  Crawl back into your holes.

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:23 | 1099935 alien-IQ
    alien-IQ's picture

    wow. impressive. you're like...a total fuckin genius. you must have been the coolest kid in your school. I'll bet you were the captain of the football team. dated a cheerleader, have a mind like Stephen Hawkings, the looks of Brad Pitt, you can fight like Bruce Lee and you're hung like John Holmes.

    can I be your friend?

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:33 | 1100005 High Plains Drifter
    High Plains Drifter's picture

    he is losing his ass off and he says he does this for a living. oh ok...........

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:47 | 1100098 ColonelCooper
    ColonelCooper's picture

    AND wants to know WHY he's losing his ass. 

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:34 | 1100018 tmosley
    tmosley's picture

    What, we can't make huge amounts of money AND post at the same time?

    What are you, Jimmy Carter?  You have to sit down the chew gum?

    Fri, 03/25/2011 - 12:54 | 1100114 Muir
    Muir's picture

    -

    " I use TZA like an option, I understand the risks."

    and

    "I do this for a living. "

     

    Are contradictory statements.

    -

    Unlike like you, I do not use OPM.

    p.s. Why would anybody that does this "for a living" and would not just short TF at 75cents per mini, is beyond me.

    Or hell, since you are a big shot, why not buy a couple of full contracts?

    -

    Now go make some calls and hustle up some business.

    -


    Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!