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TEPCO Says Reduced Pressure Levels Inside Pressure Vessel Of Reactor 3 Indicates Possible Leakage

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Just a troubling headline for now. Considering Reactor 3 was the one most devastated following its explosion earlier this week, this could be a truly disturbing development. This is especially true consider Reactor 3 is the only one at Fukushima whose fuel rods contain Plutnoium.

As a reminder:

If the reactor pressure vessel has indeed exploded, this is actually very
bad. Fukushima is a light-water, boiling water reactor system, and
unless the designers had decided to build these reactors differently,
then this means that the reactor vessel is quite probably exposed to the
air, albeit buried under debris from the collapsed pressure vessel.
Light-water BWR reactors use light (regular) water as a moderator to
enable the fission reaction in the core (and is thus exposed to the
reactor vessel), of which is brought to a boil by the heat from the
reaction, then the steam resulting from this directly drives the
turbines to produce electricity. An explosion in this system would mean
the release of, at the very least, mildly radioactive steam, with quite
probably the majority of the volume of the water escaping. Officials are
reporting that the reactor vessel is still intact: If this is true,
then at least the fuel and it's by-products are still contained.

What makes it even more disturbing is that Reactor 3 is the one containing traces of Plutonium:

The fuel rods at all six reactors at the stricken Fukushima Dai-ichi complex contain plutonium — better known as fuel for nuclear weapons. While plutonium is more toxic than uranium, other radioactive elements leaking out are likely to be of greater danger to the general public.

Only six percent of the fuel rods at the plant's Unit 3 were a mixture of plutonium-239 and uranium-235 when first put into operation. The fuel in other reactors is only uranium, but even there, plutonium is created during the fission process.

This means the fuel in all of the stricken reactors and spent fuel pools contain plutonium.

Plutonium is indeed nasty stuff, especially damaging to lungs and kidneys. It is also less stable than uranium and can more easily spark a dangerous nuclear chain reaction.

 

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Fri, 03/18/2011 - 08:32 | 1070688 sabra1
sabra1's picture

OT: 30 killed in yemen protests!

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 08:36 | 1070710 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Have the Canadians bomb somebody there immediately. Apparently it doesn't matter who you hit. Just bomb away.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 08:55 | 1070768 Golden monkey
Golden monkey's picture

We don't have bombs in Canada; our prime minister wants to get 5 dozens F35 fighters, but the whole country is against the brave man...

But we were able to buy 4 wrecked submarines from UK for only 1 billion $.

1 sinked, but 3 remains; the military don't want to use the 3 remaining.

Face it : we are the next superpower. We are about to get bomb-proof underwears!

http://www.china-daily.org/China-News/Bullet-proof-underwear-to-be-introduced-in-A-Yingjun-reduce-bomb-damage/

 

 

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 08:59 | 1070810 oh_bama
oh_bama's picture

The only thing that works, is for BOJ to QE 1 quardrillion yen. And that would be enough!!

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 08:34 | 1070693 the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

Bars leak that shit,  they use it in the nuclear sub coolant systems.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 08:37 | 1070716 cossack55
cossack55's picture

I thought Pluto was too far away to send miners.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 08:44 | 1070741 New_Meat
Fri, 03/18/2011 - 08:52 | 1070772 jimijon
jimijon's picture

More trivia... our Moon isn't technically a moon. We are actually a binary planetary system.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:03 | 1070838 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

Even more trivia - the Earth actually has 3 Moons

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:21 | 1070899 Big Corked Boots
Big Corked Boots's picture

# 2 and 3 visible when I bend over.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 10:44 | 1071323 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

What are those rings around #3? 

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 10:24 | 1071191 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

How many probes have taken core samples from Uranus?

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 08:34 | 1070697 sabra1
sabra1's picture

OT: Saudi King Orders Billions of Dollars in Handouts

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:02 | 1070832 max2205
max2205's picture

if he gives away anymore money everyone from Alaska will move to SA

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:57 | 1071028 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

more handouts, less clothing allowance

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:17 | 1070885 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

He's following the lead of U.S. politicians who promise huge sums of public money to the people who vote them in office.  Union paybacks baby.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 08:36 | 1070700 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

is Lenny Bruce afraid yet?

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:21 | 1070897 Ignatius J Reilly
Ignatius J Reilly's picture

+ eye of the hurricane

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 10:18 | 1071160 snowball777
snowball777's picture

+ listen to yourself churn

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 08:36 | 1070704 brian0918
brian0918's picture

Gold and silver just took off!

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 08:38 | 1070712 Arrowflinger
Arrowflinger's picture

Is "Plutnoium" a term for knowledge of Pluto?

My personal 'noiums' are enhanced by this site.

Carry on.

 

 

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:44 | 1070983 fuu
fuu's picture

<golf clap>

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 08:39 | 1070718 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

i dont see how anyone would ever travel to Japan again

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:21 | 1070896 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Glowing Sushi, tritiated Teriyaki, 5 million degree spicy Hamachi, Plutonium laced Sirimi, Sashimi with Cesium, and the highlight: glowing green Wasabi.  Yummy!

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 08:40 | 1070721 NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

and while all of this unfolds the pres heads out for another vacation while the MSM fawns.  can u imagine what the MSM would scream if Bush took a junket to Brazil at such a time

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:36 | 1070941 Shock and Aweful
Shock and Aweful's picture

The GOP and the DEM's are the same exact thing. 

Bush, Obama, it does not matter...you and I are screwed.

The parties, AND the media just play the left / right game so people like you will choose sides against other Americans.  t was the media who created the whole "red/blue" thing on one of their election night political maps back in the 70's.

I for one ain't buying it...there is but one politcal apparatus in the U.S. - THE CORPORATION AND THE BANKS THAT SUPPORT OUR POLITICIANS...

"Democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism — an ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power"  - FDR

Say that isn't what we have in the U.S. today and I'll call you a liar straight to your face.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:42 | 1070970 duo
duo's picture

MSNBC was laying into him last night and a bit this morning.  I was shocked to hear it.  If al-Kenya loses MSNBC, he'll have only CNBC and the nightly news (and NPR).

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 10:19 | 1071167 Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

NPR is threatening to have its gov't funding cut. Obummer's fans might shrink even more.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 08:42 | 1070732 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Tyler, I think you should run a top topic about the hero's that are sacrificing their lives by getting back into the plant to try to fix things.

 

These guys are hero's above and beyond. Those guys know they'll die and still they go in.

 

Those guys deserve the utmost respect a human being can get.

 

 

 

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 08:43 | 1070742 willien1derland
willien1derland's picture

Totally Agree SD - well stated

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 08:54 | 1070780 Zedge Hero
Zedge Hero's picture

Second that.  I think of the balls of those guys throughout this whole ordeal is incredible.  Dead men walking with a heart of gold.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:22 | 1070903 Ignatius J Reilly
Ignatius J Reilly's picture

amen.

How do you get junked for that?!

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 10:21 | 1071173 Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

We have trolls among us. +1 SD

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:25 | 1070908 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

+1... Absolutely.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 10:42 | 1071038 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

my turn to get junked...damn

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 08:42 | 1070733 willien1derland
willien1derland's picture

Ok so someone has to ask the question - Who owns the mortgage on the reactor site & is it current? Kinda hoping Goldman Sachs owns it...doesn't reduce the impact of the tragedy, but, it would make me feel better knowing Goldman Sachs could get screwed -  

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 08:55 | 1070793 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

Unfortunatly, they securitized the note a few years ago along with a bunch of other properties, makeing a truely "toxic" assest.  Furthermore, the FED bought them at face value.  If the AIG bid goes through, they wil then hold this "asset".  The good news is, for all of those "follow the money" types, your job just got a whole lot easier, use a geiger counter.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:02 | 1070824 reload
reload's picture

wishful thinking. They are probably long enough TEPCO cds that their lobbying teams are being briefed to ensure the writers of said cds are bailed without any `destabilising` delays

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:00 | 1070808 LeBalance
LeBalance's picture

It is important to realise that while only Unit 3 rods contained plutonium at the start of operations, all rods contain plutonium as a result of the fission reaction, and therefore all spent pool rods contain plutonium.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:02 | 1070831 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Pressure up? Bad news, explosion imminent. But that's just hydrogen. Like a Burrito fart you know. Pressure down? Bad news, Burn out, then explosion imminent. That's like heart-burn followed by said burrito fart. 

All good, minor discomfort folks. No one ever died from a burrito fart.

Or, as some wise folks on here said, a leaking, exploding, wrecked nuclear reactor. Or six. Or was that eleven? 

Screw it. Have another Burrito.

ORI

http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2011/03/17/archetypal-astrology-from-cathartes-aura/

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:12 | 1070867 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

Reduced pressure inside Gadaffi's containment vessel also indicates leakage - seems that he looked up and the sky and shit in his pants. Radioactivity H2S detected over Tripoli.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:12 | 1070869 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Excellent! [/mr. burns]

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:18 | 1070883 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Don't worry. This will not be a problem. They will miraculously keep any leakage of radiation at bay (or at least any news of any serious leakage), until after 4 p.m., which just so happens to coincide with market closing.

Look for major problems and revelations to be reported from 4 pm est through 9:15 am est on Monday, just prior to market open, at which time more Hopium will be found and infused into the reactors.

Hopium is more powerful and has stronger real world effects than all the uranium, plutonium and cesium combined.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:21 | 1070901 Cdad
Cdad's picture

Correct brother Truth,

But who cares...it's only Japanese people that will stoically absorb all those gamma rays, anyway...right?  And if I understood the criminal syndicate known as Wall Street from earlier in the week, millions of radioactive people in Japan is super bullish as hoarding is really good for retail sales.

Let's see how long all this super bullishness lasts...as that reactor #3 story worsens in a hurry...as clearly that situation is out of control.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:44 | 1070957 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

The Bernank has whipped a magical brew:

1 part massive unemployment

1 part massive monetization of U.S. deficit spending via POMO

1 part massive foreclosure, default and delinquency rates

1 part massive manipulation of asset values (mark to fantasy; credit assistance from Congress & President Nero, h/t)

1 part reinforcing and strengthening too big to fail

1 part ZIRP (loaning fiat to the chosen at 0% while giving savers & retirees little more than 0% on their savings)

1 part 31 year highs on the actual inflation index

 

- Now add record deficits and national levels of debt by many nations, middle eastern wars, sovereign debt crises on a level not seen since pre WWII, and a nuclear clustfock of epic proportions...and....

I am open to name suggestions, but I call this Bernank's Unicorn Ambrosia

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:21 | 1070898 mendigo
mendigo's picture

it is hard to understand that this thing is in close proximity to the ocean but they can't get water to it they are nibbling at the problem it would progress better i think if they rounded-up the tepco executives and relavent bureaucrats and brought them in to help with the work

NY times reports:

11,000 spent fule rods are stored at the site (brilliant)

2750 rods are in use

rods average approx 380 lb of nuclear material

= approx 5,225,000 lbs (2600 tons) on-site

based on current trends this thing is a done deal 

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:27 | 1070914 Cdad
Cdad's picture

it is hard to understand that this thing is in close proximity to the ocean but they can't get water to it

They cannot get water onto the problem because the reactors are in a state of ruin...and more importantly, there is so much radiation coming from them that they cannot get close enough to get water into the right place.

Now I know that does not jive with what the Ministry of Truth [CNBC] is telling you, and it surely is not in line with what the Japanese government is telling its people...but...anyway...these are the problems.

But never mind.  I understand sales and LuLu Lemon are brisk!

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:39 | 1070949 mendigo
mendigo's picture

i understand that they cannot flip a switch and pump water on it

they need to get a little creative - the alternative (which at this point looks like to odds-on favorite) is they can plan to abandon a large portion of the island and probably suffer on-going health problems

crack those babies open and flood the area

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:41 | 1070967 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

Here's what I don't understand:  Why couldn't they get pumps onsite at the outset?  I understand the wreckage and aftermath, but are you telling me that helicopters couldn't have brought the shit in within 24 hours?  Was it already too late and they were being tight lipped about how bad it was?  Did they completely underestimate the situation?  Were they trying to "save face" and wouldn't ask for help?

The equipment exists.  Why didn't/couldn't they get it onsite?  Hell, I could open the gates at ONE of our yards and load out enough portable diesel water pumps and fuel tanks to move millions of gallons of water per day, and we're just a construction outfit.  Somebody help me out here.  WTF?

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:51 | 1071001 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

CC,

Once we step outside the official explanation and begin to question everything, questions such as yours above pop out with flashing lights blazing.

How many people understand that the power line TEPCO is bringing in is attached to their competitor's power lines and that it will be drawing from power generated from their competitor? How much did that little factoid have to do with the delay of a week to get power on site? I could go on with many more questions and I eventually will, but it seems futile to do so here on this thread.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 10:01 | 1071065 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

I'm still on the fence in terms of there being conditions that I'm obviously not aware of.  But as usual, what we're being told is bullshit.  If getting enough water to the (at that point) undamaged reactors and pools was really the issue, then using firetrucks to do it was hardly the best way to go about it. 

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 10:10 | 1071111 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

good point. If you "step in" the official explanation, it's a bitch to get off your shoes.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:51 | 1071005 mendigo
mendigo's picture

thats what im saying too

instead they are approaching the problem as corporate management would - incremental steps with no accountabilty - being made by people at a safe distance bring those guys and there families to address the problem they created

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 10:02 | 1071063 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

profits not people

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 10:13 | 1071131 wandstrasse
wandstrasse's picture

this has been my question, too. Diesel pumps are really common equipment everywhere... but maybe they are not able to put the hoses where needed / connect them to the system, because all is too damaged.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 10:32 | 1071247 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

I'm sure you're right about damage.  Now.  What about at the onset?  Maybe the amount of water they needed was in the line of GPM that firetrucks could supply enough.  Who knows?  We sure as Hell don't, because they have either lied or been suspiciously evasive from the start. 

Kind of like their radiation equipment being "down" at the plant.  Somehow I'm having a hard time believing that nobody there has a fucking rad meter?  Hell, if they want I can airmail them my old civil defense stuff.  It isn't exactly state of the art, but apparently it would be better than what they have.

Anyone else remember when there were reports of radiation levels being above normal at Onagawa?  They downplayed the possibility of a leak there saying the radiation was coming from Fukushima, even though that didn't jive with the numbers they were reporting.  Well, conveniently the equipment at that plant is down too. 

http://www.targetmap.com/viewer.aspx?reportId=4870

I can send some extra batteries over there along with my geiger counter if they want. 

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 10:28 | 1071200 TomJoad
TomJoad's picture

Main problem was reactor cores are highly pressurized so they need special extra high pressure water pumps to fill a reactor pressure vessel. The US military flew such pumps in on the 14th. By that time the Japanese had opened the vents so that they could use standard pressure pumps to fill cores with seawater. This vented hydrogen and "Boom!" Good news is that reactors 1, 2, and 3 are all at atmospheric pressure (therefore can be filled with low pressure pumps.) The bad news is that reactors 1, 2, and 3 are all at atmospheric pressure (meaning some level of containment failure). The total heat output of the cores is decreasing rapidly over time, but they are still putting out something like 14MW of thermal energy this morning.  Nobody is saying what the status of all the rods in the pools is. I would really like to know how long each rod assembly had been cooling in each pool, they have that data I am sure, but not a peep. My guess is the hottest assembly was in 4 since that reactor was recently emptied. The longer they can keep any of these assemblies from total melt down, the less cooling is required to prevent melt down

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 10:38 | 1071289 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

I agree with the statement about the high pressure pumps.  More than I think they were too stupid to know what they needed to do, I think that what they were doing was desperation attempts from the beginning.  Which means they were a lot more fucked than they let on.

Were they just trying to stave off panicking 100,000,000 people stuck on an island?  Probably, and I understand that to an extent.  But now that the inevitable has happened, the longer they remain tight lipped the deeper the hole they're digging for themselves.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:25 | 1070907 Byte Me
Byte Me's picture

@TD

Of course all 6 reactors contain Pu! , but only one was running on MOX fuel. BWRs ain't best at bakin' 238U into 239Pu -- but they do it, some.

You trying to scare the troops here? Worry 'em about the spent fuel rods in this coastal storage site.

Come to think of it, what's TEPCO's security like here? There's enough crap for 1000s of dirty bombs here for craphead terrorist scum.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 10:16 | 1071158 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Byte, yep, 'cept that getting at the irradiated fuel is suicide.  Self-security for a while. - Ned

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:29 | 1070911 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Considering the massive damage done to the containment building of units 3 and 4, how is anyone able to say with any degree of certainty that these reactor vessels are not compromised and that they are holding pressure? What instruments are they using and who is actually looking at these vessels to confirm what the measurements are telling them? 

Here is a close up of unit 4. Consider the amount of energy needed to blow away all that heavily reinforced concrete. BTW that green piece of equipment better not be the overhead crane because the crane is supposed to be .....wait for it......overhead of all this.

Here is unit 3. Look how much damage has been done.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:34 | 1070931 Cdad
Cdad's picture

Brother Cog,

I'm sure the US over flight turned up zero problems...which is why they are evacuating all US military personnel. 

I'm also sure that cooling efforts are going swell...as chopper pilots toss loads of water in the general direction of the destroyed reactors...dodging plumes of radiation.

And I'm sure TEPCO is talking concrete because they know that the place looks a mess.

In other news, casual dining stocks sure look cheap to me.

Cdad

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 14:02 | 1072293 A Man without Q...
A Man without Qualities's picture

The U.S. Navy has provided five high-capacity pumping systems to Japan's Electrical and Mechanical Engineering Group Nuclear Asset Management Department to assist in the effort to cool the core of the damaged No. 3 reactor at the Fukushima Dai-Ichi nuclear power plant.

http://www.c7f.navy.mil/news/2011/03-march/040.htm

 

I still reckon unit 3 has had a breach of containment vessel, at the least, based on the shape of the explosion, the flash and the damage.  I assume they will slowly release more information over the weekend.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:37 | 1070943 Nepenthe
Nepenthe's picture

CD- What does this article say about the culture? Could this be why the Japanese govt is reacting in this manner? 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1366898/Japan-tsunami-earthquake-30-children-sit-silent-classroom-parents-vanish.html

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:40 | 1070953 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

I think I see water in there...just a 'glint' of light which is a bona fide confirmation of a full pool of water!

We're saved!!!

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:43 | 1070977 Cdad
Cdad's picture

LOL!

Perfect delivery, brother Boiler.

LOLOLOLOL!

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:44 | 1070979 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I saw Trav777 talking about seeing water and reflections from water and Cherenkov radiation in this and other photos and I realized our friend had skipped his meds. It was the only explanation I could come up with. Let's see if his snooping software picks up the mention of his name and he responds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherenkov_radiation

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:48 | 1070996 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

I've decided to simply let the idiot play out his internet "I'm an Engineer" fantasy.  Seriously, what harm can come of it?  He should be allowed to him impress himself.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 11:54 | 1071684 trav7777
trav7777's picture

wtf do you think the translucent green surface is beneath the crane gantry, jackass?

Many people have asked why it would look as if the crane was illuminated...I explained that.  Stop being a freakin moron.

You conspiracy mongers are a fucking infestation on this site...more and more I realize this.  You feed off of this need to feel victimized, so much so that you invent it everywhere.

ALL you can ever say is "it's all lies," and you talk as if you have some special fucking enlightenment...YOU?  You're nothing but a big mouth who thinks his diatribes are revelatory brilliance.

You have nothing to add here and you are desperate to be holding court.  Go write another 10,000 word spiel on...something.  I'm sure all your admirers will tell you how great and deep you are.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 12:00 | 1071700 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

LOL...I love it.  The internet sure is entertaining.  The power of Google and the ability to 'research' ones self into being officially educated.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 12:02 | 1071722 trav7777
trav7777's picture

utter lack of factual rebuttal noted.

This is all you have and all you are, isn't it?  Sad.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 13:07 | 1072023 avonaltendorf
avonaltendorf's picture

LA Times reporting that Tepco workers withdrawn because of high radiation again.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 12:04 | 1071724 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

That insult is the last straw.

We are charging HAARP right now and sending the NWO flock to shit on your car.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 12:26 | 1071793 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

Just imagine meeting this dipshit outside of the cloak of the internet.  I'm guessing he's a real social fuckwad in full glory.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:41 | 1070956 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

they aren't damaged... they're gone...

 

Also, for a concrete encasement, people should really need to realize how much contrete you need, and that drying that stuff takes months in a good situation. It's literally and figural moving a mountain.

 

The sheer time it takes to build something like it this size will take at least 6 months and they don't have that much time.

 

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:57 | 1071035 Rogerwilco
Rogerwilco's picture

@Sudden

It is a matter of will. Real leaders summon the will to move mountains.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 10:13 | 1071128 A Man without Q...
A Man without Qualities's picture

There's a blog feed at Reuters with some sort of nuclear expert, who makes this comment...

Points on using some sort of covering over these plants like in chernobyl. The concrete covering they put up at chernobyl was not designed to be earthquake proof and failed during an earthquake. They are currently in the process of building a huge sliding cover that is costing a tremendous amount of money. Any coverings at these reactors will need to resist earthquakes and will be extremely costly and take a long time to build since there are 4 reactors.

As I recall, the cost for Chernobyl has been in the tens of billions, so I reckon that between the reactors and the spent fuel, it's going to cost more than Kobe just to fix this power station, assuming nothing more goes wrong and they have been honest about the facts.  I studied some cost benefit analysis of energy generation at university, and the thing I remember is de-commissioning is more expensive than commissioning.

However, I maintain my belief that the cloud we saw when unit 3 exploded was caused my an explosion in the containment vessel. Therefore, I don't think there is a spent fuel pool left.  I hate to think what is happening to these fuel rods, but if they are burning, there will not be a lot of smoke.


Fri, 03/18/2011 - 10:34 | 1071266 Urban Roman
Urban Roman's picture
TEPCO Says Reduced Pressure Levels Inside Pressure Vessel Of Reactor 3 Indicates Possible Leakage

 

Alternative explanation: Pressure Vessel has been blown to the neigboring prefecture and sensor wires are dangling in the wreckage, making occasional contact with a pile of spent fuel pellets and other rubbish.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 10:49 | 1071354 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Your explanation sounds nearly as reasonable as anything else coming out of Japan.

So from TEPCO's point of view, you're saying it's not in my backyard (NIMBY) anymore? Cool.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 11:49 | 1071614 Urban Roman
Urban Roman's picture

It's priced in. BTFD

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 12:07 | 1071738 trav7777
trav7777's picture

riiiiiiight.  It's nearly as reasonable.  LOL.  Nevermind it is unsupported by ANY evidence.  Oh right, you'll just claim that any evidence is just lies and propaganda, a highly convenient debate device.

And here I thought you were not that stupid.  WTF are you doing here, man?  You really need to fan the flames of doomer paranoia this badly to feel like your input has any real worth?

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:25 | 1070916 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

Did anyone clear this through Trav777?  That guy is an self-taught and self-professed authority!

I need answers damn it!  I need a internet fuckwad with little to know actual understanding of the situation to swoop in an make declarations of presumed fact!!!

GOD DAMN IT!  WHERE THE FUCK IS TRAV777!?  THIS FUCKER IS GOING TO BLOW!!  WE NEED A HERO!!

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 12:00 | 1071704 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Everything I said would occur, has occurred.

Nothing you can say or do can change that.  No amount of posting random guys' linkedin profiles can change it.

No amount of bullshit outta your mouth can restore your credibility.  I am hoping Japan turns this around; you are hoping for an apocalypse.  That makes you and the rest SICK.

And that's what it is; you and CD and the rest of the paranoids have a mental illness, probably subclinical, but an illness nonetheless.  Bunch of fucking Eeyores.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 12:04 | 1071727 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

Yea, it's probably another Trav777 that parades around blogs acting like a fucking tool.

You got me.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:26 | 1070919 plocequ1
plocequ1's picture

Wow, Thats not good. I think i will buy stocks

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:30 | 1070923 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

How long until JIT (just in time) deliveries of Japanese autos, auto parts, put American Commuters afoot?

 

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:34 | 1070932 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

GM is already shutting down one line because of problems with parts.

Shreveport, la (KSLA) –  The GM plant in Shreveport is the first one to feel the effects of the earthquake and tsunami in Japan.

 

The union announced today that the plant will turn out the lights and cease production due to the shortage of an unspecified component. The absence of this part from Japan means 800 GM workers will not return to work next week.

http://www.ksla.com/Global/story.asp?S=14275044

 

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:43 | 1070971 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Just when sales was "picking up" again...

 

We can only guess what the dealers will now  do with all the "free" space on their parkinglots...

 

 

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:46 | 1070992 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

Thanks for the link CD...

The GM announcement of another plant closure should be good for an equities ramp into the close today.

The FIRE Sector continues to grow while the real productive economy continues to falter.

 

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:40 | 1070952 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

SO basically.....

I have been right all along.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:40 | 1070965 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

No so fast Bob...Japanese every are emptying their windex bottle and filling them with water to spritz the cores.

This aint over yet!

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:48 | 1070975 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

I thought the "skeleton" crew was doing that. Were the skeletons able to plug the power plant into power with the imaginary cord so that the pumps that were destroyed can start pumping unicorn tears onto the rods?

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:52 | 1071011 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

The funniest (most sad) part of that is that there is no fucking way that all of the switch gear, plumbing, etc. are in working order.  It's just fucking ridiculous.  I agree they have to 'try' and 'pray' that it'll work.  But, that should be a described as a long shot at best.  Of course, Trav777 will have to clear that thought since he's also a self taught Electrical Engineer and hydraulics expert.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:57 | 1071033 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

I was saying that from the moment TEPCO was saying they were building some kind of cord.

I was saying WTF? Look at those buildings.... and they are trying to supply power to heaps of rubble?

They have been lying about this since day 1 minute 1

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 10:07 | 1071088 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

"just fucking ridiculous" should really be the official spokesline

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:57 | 1071027 eaglefalcon
eaglefalcon's picture


No so fast Bob...Japanese every are emptying their windex bottle and filling them with water to spritz the cores.

This aint over yet!

 

Considering that the verb "spritzen" also means "come", whole bunch of japanese guys spritzen on the nuclear reactor core is a scene to behold.  That'd be their last act of desperation and it is indeed over

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 10:01 | 1071055 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

That's an even BETTER idea!!

The mother of all BUKKAKE!

Brilliant!!!

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 10:14 | 1071140 jomama
jomama's picture

the stench of all that man batter instantly vaporizing sounds revolting.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 10:18 | 1071150 eaglefalcon
eaglefalcon's picture

 

The mother of all BUKKAKE!

Brilliant!!!

 

Exactly!  Sorta like the Japanese sailors on a sinking warship yelling "banzai" in unison during WWII, with ecstastic and orgasmic fervor

 

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 10:23 | 1071175 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

You mean kinda like kamikaze pilots making sure to wear a leather crash helmet and have saki together prior to slamming into ships or, more likely, the ocean?

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 15:37 | 1072899 eaglefalcon
eaglefalcon's picture

yeah, they even made kamakazi bombers out of wooden fuselage and steel landing gears.  after the airplanes took off, the landing gears were dropped and recycled.

 

heroism went to the extreme and became senseless and stupid sacrificial rituals

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:55 | 1071025 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

This whole scenaro stinks on ice, Bob.  I think they knew within hours how this whole deal was gonna play out.  I'm starting to go with, "Yes.  You were right."

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 10:13 | 1071106 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

This situation stinks on a warm summer day, Col. One issue is I don't think they know what's going on and the fact they were saying there were 50 skeletons fighting back hell was just a lie. This thing is getting monitored by spy planes and sattelites.

If you want to know what's really bad is that unlike Chernobyl this reactor had 10 years worth of plutonium/uranium on it's roof when it blew...that means they are going to have to find every rod for this to be fully contained. Which...will never happen.

btw...two reactors blew so make that mmmm 20 years(I would imagine thats thousands of pounds of rods) worth of plutonium/uranium fuel that is scattered around that area.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 12:09 | 1071745 trav7777
trav7777's picture

too many factual inaccuracies to deal with.

as was explained to you previously, the rods were not on the roof.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 12:17 | 1071785 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

OMG

In and around the upper level of the fucking building

Better?

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 10:12 | 1071122 jomama
jomama's picture

don't break your arm patting yourself on the back!

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 10:16 | 1071141 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

I'm not patting myself on the back but when you are called an ignorant conspiracy theorist that believes the government is sending flocks of birds to shit on my car this is vindication.

 

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 12:13 | 1071772 trav7777
trav7777's picture

LOL..what?

You have claimed that a "nuclear explosion" threw fuel rods halfway to Timbuktu, and now a reading comes out showing 0 pressure in #3 and you actually feel vindicated?  WTF

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:53 | 1071013 sunnydays
sunnydays's picture

plutonium half life is 24000 years in soil.  So in other words it will take 50000 years for plutonium to be washed away from soil. 

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:57 | 1071030 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

50000 years for 3/4ths of it anyway.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 10:01 | 1071053 eaglefalcon
eaglefalcon's picture

plutonium half life is 24000 years in soil.  So in other words it will take 50000 years for plutonium to be washed away from soil. 

 

Actually, 24000 year half life means 50% of radiation is left after 24000 years, and 25% remains after 48000 years

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 10:27 | 1071220 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

plutonium half life is 24000 years in soil.  So in other words it will take 50000 years for plutonium to be washed away from soil.

 

All contaminated real estate (nuclear or otherwise) ends up in Bernank's Maiden Lane, purchased at 2006 valuations.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 10:36 | 1071272 samsara
samsara's picture

Ah, No.

1kg, 24000

.5kg 50000

.25kg 75000

.125kg 100000

etc

1 gram lethal for millions of people....

 

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 09:58 | 1071032 Ben Probanke
Ben Probanke's picture

* Second Round Of Self-Defense Force Water Cooling Operations Put Off - NHK
 
 radiations too high?
 
  

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 11:03 | 1071442 TerraHertz
TerraHertz's picture

Operators from yesterday's operation too busy vomiting to go back, would be my guess.

They should have the 50 skeleton crew drive the firetrucks. Those guys are apparently immune.

You notice that NONE of the teams anywhere near the site have satellite phones, or if they do, they never call anyone but TEPCO or the government?

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 10:12 | 1071132 Battleaxe
Battleaxe's picture

Reduced pressure, visible emission of steam, and high levels of radiation have led TEPCO officials to conclude that there may be possible leakage? If they can just get an extension cord plugged into it then everything will be fine!

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 10:14 | 1071147 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

Did Barry Bonds take steroids?  The guy has a head the size of a beach ball but...but...there isn't CONCLUSIVE proof...now is there.  It's just speculation.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 10:18 | 1071162 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

I want to be lied to by more competant people.

Obama needs to take control of this.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 11:58 | 1071702 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

If you want good, competent liars then we need to get Bill Clinton back in the saddle.  

I used to hate that bastard but at least he is Presidential and can lead (even if he's a crook).  

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 10:23 | 1071189 gwar5
gwar5's picture

The concrete trucks are warming up.... but wait a minute.... doesn't it take water to make concrete, too?

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 10:24 | 1071197 Robert Neville
Robert Neville's picture

Look at the bright side. Soon all Japanese children will be growing a foot, out of the middle of their foreheads.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 10:43 | 1071313 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

WTF...and Nike is DOWN today??

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 10:35 | 1071278 bartenbach98
bartenbach98's picture

Being a regular kind of guy, i.e. a naive idiot, I was realy blown by just how dumb the Jap gov people are "managing" this! I thought (told you I was a dummy) that Japs were switched-on (did I just say that?) and "modern". I'm going to book myself in to The Priory for some help.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 10:45 | 1071324 handy457
handy457's picture

This is absolutely outrageous! I can not for the life of me fathom what is going on here! Where the hell is my country? Where the hell are all the entertainers/stars on this one? Where are the cargo planes dropping MRE's, blankets, clothing, water, diapers etc....This empty suit buffoon of a president is nothing but an indecisive fool...What an embarrassment...Michelle, you may have finally had one time that you felt proud of your country, I and many others are feeling ashamed for the first time of theirs now! May God help the Japanese people, I fear no one else will....

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1366898/Japan-tsunami-earthquake-30-children-sit-silent-classroom-parents-vanish.html#ixzz1GxdX6qdY

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 10:51 | 1071377 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

If we look at what the leaders do and not what they say...let me put this tenderly...

Japan is a foregone conclusion.

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 11:51 | 1071662 Mentalic
Mentalic's picture

Breaks my heart after reading  the entire article.

Unfortunately, this nuclear situation has driven attention away from the more serious humanitarian crisis that is unfolding.

I hope they get this nuclear shit under control soon and move on to the more important stuff of attending to their populace.

 

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 12:11 | 1071758 davepowers
davepowers's picture

I'm constantly confused by the media's varying use of terms in describing key components of the reactor. Sometimes the outer, concrete last line of defense container is called the secondary containment, sometimes primary. 

What I understand Tyler (and others here) are suggesting is that the concrete last line of defense blew up, probably taking some or most of the spent fuel pool with it, leaving the metal vessel containing the reactor fuel (hopefully) intact but at the bottom of the mess? Right?

If so, what happens next (yes, I realize this is all speculation at this point)? Will the intact metal vessel just sit there, slowly cooling? Or can it rupture or otherwise allow the live reactor fuel to escape?

Fri, 03/18/2011 - 15:38 | 1072905 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

"In the worst case scenario, we have to assume that all of eastern Japan would be wrecked. The Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO) has almost no sense of urgency whatsoever."

So said Prime Minister Naoto Kan at a meeting with special advisor to the Cabinet Kiyoshi Sasamori on the night of March 16. Handling of the crisis had been entrusted to the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency and plant operator TEPCO. However, with the reactors' immediate surroundings now being bombarded with high radiation levels and the "worst case scenario" just on the horizon, the prime minister has turned the dangerous mission over to the Self-Defense Forces (SDF).

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