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Tesla Drops To Post IPO Low, Hits $15.56 As Stocks Go Berserk On No News
Another day, another day of endless pain for investors in the "story" IPO of the year, for which positive net income is only an irrelevant side factor and to be ignored (just ask Andrew Tilton, who sees a 99.3% probability the company will make its investors rich to quite rich sooner or later). In the meantime, if you bought the stock as recently as 5 days ago, you are now down 50%. Elsewhere, stocks are doing their own thing and doing the apeshit dance even as credit is once again largely ignoring all the insanity conducted by a few short circuited computers.
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berserk, bitchez
"Elsewhere, stocks are doing their own thing and doing the apeshit dance even as credit is once again largely ignoring all the insanity conducted by a few short circuited computers." Yep. 80 point bursts.. on what? Blankfien put a dash of Rogaine on his head?
who was the lead underwriter?
DB & JPM, with GS and MS...
I'm a super fan of the Tesla electric sportscar but it's just to pricy and impossible to use as a single car.
So Tesla is practically selling stock through their concept car model.
Whatever they got from the IPO launch will enable them to buy back the stock 20 times in a few months.
SD has an interesting question... how soon after IPO can a company be made private again at much lower cost? This could be the next big scam.
Is that truly a scam, illegal, shitty, or just smart business for the folks at Tesla?
Honest question.
It's shitty only because there are still people who have their retirement hinging on equities. If it weren't for that, I really wouldn't care. It's only "illegal" (ie., subject to civil lawsuits/possible fines) if it's shown that they did not make a legit attempt to return value to the shareholders. Which is obviously a pretty easy thing to work around if you have a competant CFO and corporate legal team.
never underestimate the lengths a guy will go to pay off the ex wife
I don't think there is a hard and fast rule, but less than a year would probably get some unwanted attention from regulators.
Buying stocks with no earnings for at least two years apparently the new normal...
......it's "old" normal. NASDAQ of a decade ago was full of promising stocks with no 8-quarter earnings and ambitious fantasy business plans. All the dumb money wanted to jump aboard the next GOOGLE at the bottom. So the names got weirder ( GADZOOKS at 80 ?? ) Most of them are now worthless and long gone. NASDAQ is now at about 40% of its all time high.
Reminds me of the dot-com mentality. Business model? Revenue stream? Shit dude, look at how totally cool it is!
Now, by popular demand, a new episode of the pump-n-dump show: "The incredible IPO of Tesla, act 1".
Brought to you by your friendly Silicon Valley neighborhood venture firm and Wal Street investment Banks.
- Gullible investors, Huge Profits... it's the American Way(tm).
Can you say, D-E-L-O-R-E-A-N?
Watch out for these folks (Tesla) -- their engineers are from Harvey Mudd. They have the concept, now they just gotta make it affordable. Give 'em 18 months, those f***rs are hardcore.
No news is good news!
Ironically, bad news is good news also. So, ergo, all news is good news!
Wheeee!
I'm neither an economist nor a Harvard-trained historian so somebody tell me why this matters.
Some investors put money in something that looks crappy. Is that a sign that the end is near ??
No.
It's just financial porn.
Sit back, enjoy it.
No. The scary part is that there aren't enough idiots to buy crappy stocks anymore.
In the time of morons, teslo stock would be sold out and at 100$ right now.
Those idiots control 401(k)s and buy shit like Tesla, on the account holder's behalf of course.
Good job if you can get it: Buy the newest and hottest piece of shit, buy buy buy = massive bonus regardless of performance.
Tesla stock price history = current real world
S&P price history = Goldman's dreams
What you are seeing is people, and mostly those who have no clue, putting money in speculative stocks trying to hit the home run and get rich quick, because there is no other place to put any money that has a decent return. Normally, people would flock to treasuries, but that boat is full and just a matter of time before it implodes. The stock market itself cannot be trusted for long term investing or growth anymore. There is no reason to put money in any of the markets anymore other than for a quick trade or two. This is the bulk of the markets these days, full of daytrading and computer algo trading between each other. Anyone who doesn't want their money wasted or stolen, is already out of this market.
Bingo
I think this would qualify as malinvestment, woudn't it?
http://mises.org/easier/M.asp
WHAT!!?!?!
You mean that companies that go IPO and tons of stock shoved to "flippers" and regular investors that don't know, or care.....have to make money? I thought TSLA was putting a EV in every garage in china, to go along with all the new middle class home owners in the provinces....LOL!
I just buy stock, and hope to sell it higher to the next idiot in line.
I still think the play is for the company is to wait for the stock to go down to $3 and then take a portion of the cash they raised and go private again.
All-out trench stock warfare, and people still try to 'analyze the chart patterns'...whatever.
If this market (the computers) can take a stock (ADP) and in one trade go from $39 to $100,000 (and then cancel the trade) what makes everyone so comfortable that everyday like yesterday and this morning that every stock is not mispriced (maybe not to the extent) as ADP was yesterday. I have no confidence in this market structure or that the players know WTF they're doing.
Every person I have talked with who bought a hybrid, wants to get rid of it, or has already traded it in and gotten away from it. Seems the battery systems are garbage, nothing but problems, and the Air Conditioning is crap/non-existent on battery power. These are the real stories the car dealers will not tell other people.
I have a 2007 Camry Hybrid that consistently gets 38-39 MPG in almost all driving conditions. Has performed flawlessly for 48,000 miles. And whose AC system cannot be differentiated from gas powered only cars, even when stopped and on battery solely. It has been an exceptional car.
One out of 100 isn't bad I guess. I get 35 MPG on my fully gas Honda Civic, so if all a hybrid can give is 3-4 more mpg, it sure isn't worth the extra $15k they are charging for them above gas vehicles. And Honda/Toyota are way ahead of the game vs. American hybrid models which is what I was referring to in my last post, but I see I omitted that in my post.
Yeah, but a Hybrid is the ticket to:
a) false boost to self-esteem
b) shtupping hot lefty babes
A Civic is not in the same class as a Camry. If you want to compare apples to apples, compare an Accord with a Camry (...or a Civic to a Prius). The MPG difference is about 25-30% (In either case). When I purchased the car new in 2007, the Hybrid version was priced $2800 over the comparible 4cyl Camry (which is what it is with an additional 30HP electric motor). I believe Hybrid technology is viable and would like to see it developed further. I cannot speak for the viability of full electrics like Tesla. I am sure there are poor Hybrid choices out there as there are poor gas only choices. I am only trying to convey my actual experience over your rhetoric.
I got a 2009 Camry Hybrid and I never had a problem. I live in the middle of the desert and the AC is fine. I guess that makes it 2 out of 100.
I want to say I am not a hippie. I got it because the trim level had all the options I was looking for, and if it gives me a few more miles per gallon, bonus for me.
I have a 2004 Ford LIGHTNING, with a 400 hp supercharged V8. Gets right around 10 to 12 mpg! ;-)
And there is absolutely no way I'll trade that in for a hybrid or a pure electric jalopy. When I care about mileage, which is not often, I ride a motorcycle that geta about 39 mpg.
Didn't Apple IPO for 0ver $20 in 1980 only to crash 90%? Not sure and I can't be bothered researching this.
-
" I can't be bothered researching this."
Well, neither can I then, there!
But.
As I seem to remember, it was only Gates cash infusion via a settlement (that he did not have to so generously agree to as Apple was just about to go under) that saved the day.
Gates bigger worry at that time was anti-trust suits.
Yes, in an Apple conference Bill Gates did his best 1984 impression by having his image blown up in a gigantic screen to horrified Apple diehards.
Apple (AAPL) stock price went from 3.59 (Dec. 12, 1980) down to 2.78 (Mar. 13, 1981) down to 1.78 (Sep. 25, 1981).
Actual initial price was 22.00 which translates (roughly) to the 3.59 given above after several splits over the years. Current price is 255.53.
From wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Apple_Inc.#The_Apple_IPO):
_
Could someone explain to me all these __. _ % two decimal places predictions today?
(Ok, fine, one decimal place)
_
I can't make such fine predictions about anything.
no way we get a d-d ... we just can't ....we never got out of the recession in the first place ..
Well STT up'd their q2 operating income forecast. Clearly that translates into the market jumping almost 1 full percent.
Please, nobody look at FDO, PLEASE.
I never even peeked.
Really.
NO, no, really.
You can be so silly. Clearly FDO down means the recession is over and consumers will now be spending their monies at upscale establishments instead, natch.
Wonder if Andrew Tilton is any relation to Robert Tilton of "thousand dollar vow" fame.
Interesting that SPX is challenging 1040 again. There's a decent chance I think it'll get through there on light volume and no news. If so, we move up to 1056, 1097 at the highest before dropping hard.
Huh?
Good (if unpopular) observation, with green volume above red volume so far...
TD: Typo in title. Tesla, not Telsa
Herb Greenberg's constant bad mouthing of TSLA is a sure sign that it is being bear raided. Herb is involved with a lot of unsavory types and lost his job at Market Watch for being involved in a naked shorting ring.
Bango.
So CNBC hired him?
No surprise that indexes are testing resistance. look at yesterdays chart to see how it worked then. Seems like they try to hold them up until Europe close and then its over. SPY will likely be red on day.
I mentioned last evening how eerily similar this is to last July on the chart. Everyone was screaming head and shoulders, down we go. Almost to the day. What it did was suck in a bunch of shorts who got killed over the next few months.
I know there are many different economic/macro factors this year but from a chart/technical pov, this is oddly reminiscent of last July.
I think the difference between this year and last is that we have broken the Neckline and the high of 122 on SPY was an almost perfect measured move from the Head and Shoulders bottom formed in late 08 - 09. That bottom measured from 67-95 or 28 points. That 28 points extended from 95 = 123, so we had a classic fulfillment of the pattern. If this pattern proves out, we should see a decline of 18 points (104-122) to 86 on SPY.
A while since studying Edwards and McGee.
Since internet claims of 95% reliability on H&S,
went back to look at it.
Seems after the second shoulder confirms the neckline there must be a pullback from the
neckline to confirm a genuine H&S.
We did not get the pullback before the penetration -
too many prematurely ejaculating baby bears.
Oh well - up we go...
http://stockcharts.com/charts/gallery.html?spx
http://books.google.com/books?id=wklriRw9a1oC&pg=PA78&lpg=PA78&dq=edward...
Edwards and Magee only book you need. Not sure why the strength of this resistance ( Neckline) at 104.5 is not apparent.
The chart reminds me of the performance profile of it's battery. Push it hard and it won't go the distance.
http://blogs.edmunds.com/greencaradvisor/2009/02/tesla-battery-pack-replacement-would-be-36000-today-musk-says.html
The batteries are the cost of a small car which depreciates to $0 over 7 years.
It looks like Elon Musk is going to pay off his divorce proceedings with a worthless IPO. Smart investors took their money and ran leaving the bag for the suckers.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/22/elon-musk-says-hes-broke_n_6206...
Someone figured out this POS will never make a dime.......unless Big Brother comes to the rescue. I can't wait to subsidize this one. Maybe we should buy in anticipation.
Goldman Sachs is the equivalent to the fallen British Empire. They seem small, but they are an uber-powerful empire of high falutin' types, hell bent on bending everyone to their considerably efficient and profitable desires.
Problem with empires, they last so damned long.
One thing the guys who are designing that car have that the rest of the world lacks....brains
If they had brains, they wouldn't be making an electric sports car. They'd be making an electric conversion van that can haul around 4 kids and a boat trailer. And they'd figure out how to profit at half the MSRP of a gasoline-powered one.
Amen.
That Tesla is making a 2-seat sportscar speaks volumes about them and their percieved market of vain, more-money-than-sense materialists.
A modern american response to paradigm change... all form, no function.
And then I look at Hayes Technology, a small Cali group building diesel motorcycles for the military... great, practical product, IMO. I can't figure out why Hayes hasn't offered these diesel bikes commercially, selling to the public. I know for a fact that Hayes has turned down funding/capitalization offers that would facilitate commercial production... can't figure it out... withholding a 'winner' product makes no sense to me - but it's their business, not mine!
They raised their start up capital selling sports cars to very wealthy adolescents. They never would have raised it selling vans.
What is better pissing money on this or Agro Bank China? Apparently the latter.
They raised their start up capital via $465 million in loans from the Department of Energy.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE65R5EI20100629
They can sell sports cars to wealthy adolescents because they've been subsidized by the government. If they were worth their salt, they'd be selling cars people want to people who want them at prices that are profitable without Uncle Sugar chipping in.
The real market would be city buses and delivery vehicles IF the electric, or hybrid, had any efficiency gains over conventional power.
You americans at one time were funny. Now, not so much.
Battery technology isn't up to the task right now, so Tesla isn't going anywhere until that is fixed. But the rest of the world is sick and tired if you Americans using 25% of the resources on your "4 kids and a boat trailer" bullshit entitled low quality rat race lives.
Tesla cars are not practical and their pickup is too big and expensive. I'd rather drive a golf cart with a utility bed on the back.
Sheer ignorance on your part for not leaving tesla on charge over-night.
By the way which one of you was the last to turn off the lights yesterday night?
Harry Wanger is bearish? Yikes, time to get long!!!
Actually, I did buy some GOOG this morning. 13 down days in a row. It will EVENTUALLY break the streak.
AS ATG pointed out above, Goldman Sachs Group, Morgan Stanley and JPMorgan Chase & Co. and Deutsche Bank AG led the Telsa IPO. According to 24/7 Wall Street on June 29 in A Telsa $226 Million IPO: A Road To Disaster, “Telsa needed the money.”
That familiar set of quads brings to mind a little past history of Goldman and the rest of the boyz in Matt Taibbi’s Rolling Stone article in April, “The Great American Bubble Machine,” with its GS illustration of “INVEST HERE” Kablooey.com:
"The basic scam in the Internet Age is pretty easy even for the financially illiterate to grasp. Companies that weren't much more than potfueled ideas scrawled on napkins by uptoolate bongsmokers were taken public via IPOs, hyped in the media and sold to the public for mega-millions. It was as if banks like Goldman were wrapping ribbons around watermelons, tossing them out 50-story windows and opening the phones for bids. In this game you were a winner only if you took your money out before the melon hit the pavement.
"It sounds obvious now, but what the average investor didn't know at the time was that the banks had changed the rules of the game, making the deals look better than they actually were. They did this by setting up what was, in reality, a two-tiered investment system — one for the insiders who knew the real numbers, and another for the lay investor who was invited to chase soaring prices the banks themselves knew were irrational. While Goldman's later pattern would be to capitalize on changes in the regulatory environment, its key innovation in the Internet years was to abandon its own industry's standards of quality control."
For the full details, in case you’ve forgotten:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/12697/64796?RS_show_page=1
Is this a $3 stock?
The Tesla is an insult to Nikolai! A massively inefficient, expensive, not-for-the-common-man piece of ....
Very indicative, at many levels, of the world we live in.
ORI
http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com
Indeed Oh. But then Nikky started fielding insults and injuries pretty much the moment he stepped on NA soil, immediately following the dispossession of his ideas.
I constantly hear how America is the 'leader in innovation', what a load of bollocks. America is the Don of malevolent appropriation, end of.
For a real automotive alternative, dig around here:
http://www.squareandc.net/#For_Automotive_companies
Pass the bong this way brother, you've had it long enough.
At $16 per share, Tesla is valued at more than five times book value.
Toyota (TM), by comparison, trades at about 1.3 times book value.
I'm down with Bubblemetrics!
This IPO, like all IPO's, is about the insiders dumping stock to the public. They know more than we do and they are selling. Think about it.
If the price gets low enough and they think they will actually make a profit, they will buy back their stock. It doesn't take going private again. You can simply do buy backs.
"The batteries are the cost of a small car which depreciates to $0 over 7 years."
Oh for shits sakes. I own a robotic lawnmower and you can only get three years from the battery.
Batteries are the bottleneck for a lot of good technology right now. And, they haven't really advanced. I mean - pretty much none. Still, since it is such a bottleneck - one could think people will devote a lot more time to a solution. 7 years is a lifetime in technology terms. Maybe in 5 - someone has a breakthrough which is better and cheaper. He's still got your 12 grand deposit.
Battery technology (NiMH) certainly has advanced. It's just that they never made it to market for obvious reasons. (hint, Big Oil)
From Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel-metal_hydride_battery
See also
http://www.ev1.org/
Fuel Cells are certainly a better technology -- too bad they're not cost-effective right now. (BLDP -- Ballard Power Systems)
Too large and heavy for vehicles. Great as stationary generators which are already available. Also DANA is advancing with a thermoset composite stack. Great work on their behalf.
"Battery technology (NiMH) certainly has advanced. It's just that they never made it to market for obvious reasons. (hint, Big Oil)"
Oh stop! Batteries have made some progress - but not enough. If it had, things like robotics, and all manner of other products that actually run on batteries would have taken advantage. The evil oil barron's aren't making it so my roomba won't hold a charge for longer! Batteries have limitations. Like cost effectiveness. Companies like Irobot would die to have a better battery. So would a lot of other companies that are limited by battery capabilities.
The EV1 had a dedicated group of enthusiasts who would put up with it's limitations.
It's physics- not a conspiracy.
tesla's brand name will be worth more than any assets (or profitless revenue streams)it owns when it is liquidated (bought out)
Maybe they should bring in Gore to massage the numbers....
Ooops, my bad, it was Friskher
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