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Thanks To 60 Minutes' Report On Fraudclosure, US GDP Is About To "Soar" By $50 Billion

Tyler Durden's picture


Several days ago, courtesy of an analysis by JPM's Michael Feroli, we quantified that the implied "rents" benefit to the US economy arising from squatters not paying mortgages is about $50 billion per year, or just about 0.4% of GDP. Today, thanks to 60 Minutes, this number is about to soar, because if anyone didn't know before that paying mortgages is for suckers, now virtually every single mortgage borrower, and there are about 48 million of them, will think long and hard before mailing out the next mortgage payment. And if not all, then certainly the 11.1 million underwater mortgages will be one step closer to throwing in the towel on feeding the mortgage monster. Considering that 4.6 million mortgages are currently delinquent for 30 days or more, look for this number to at least double as everyone who is underwater says no mas to a losing game. Which of course is precisely what the banks want: consider that the "rents" benefit is about to double to $100 billion per year, all of which will accrue to the banking system first, then one can see why a $20 billion settlement deal is not a bad investment for the bank to generate a 2.5x ROI in a few short months.

Full 60 Minutes clip on Fraudclosure:


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Sun, 04/03/2011 - 21:35 | 1130970 franzpick
franzpick's picture

Who still watches 60 Minutos?

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 21:42 | 1130992 Tyler Durden
Tyler Durden's picture

Zero Hedge loves all its commentators, even those who now and then need to look up the definition of "fact",  "baseless allegation", and "how to Google stuff":

Final broadcast TV ratings for Sunday via Travis Yanan:

America’s Funniest Home Videos
- 7.493 million viewers
- 4.1/7 HH
- 1.6/5 A18-49

Secret Millionaire
- 10.631 million viewers
- 6.2/10 HH
- 2.7/8 A18-49

Desperate Housewives (R, 61 minutes)
- 4.024 million viewers
- 2.6/4 HH
- 0.9/2 A18-49

Brothers & Sisters (R, 59 minutes)
- 2.651 million viewers
- 1.8/3 HH
- 0.6/2 A18-49

NCAA Basketball (4:56pm, 141 minutes)
- 15.082 million viewers
- 8.9/18 HH
- 5.3/19 A18-49

60 Minutes (7:17pm)
- 14.811 million viewers
- 9.0/16 HH
- 3.1/10 A18-49

The Amazing Race (8:17pm)
- 10.957 million viewers
- 6.2/10 HH
- 3.2/9 A18-49

Undercover Boss (9:17pm)
- 11.871 million viewers
- 6.8/11 HH
- 3.2/9 A18-49

CSI: Miami (10:17pm)
- 11.193 million viewers
- 6.8/12 HH
- 2.7/8 A18-49

- 3.460 million viewers
- 2.4/4 HH
- 0.6/2 A18-49

America’s Next Great Restaurant
- 3.669 million viewers
- 2.3/4 HH
- 1.3/4 A18-49

The Simpsons (R, 7pm)
- 3.400 million viewers
- 1.9/3 HH
- 1.5/5 A18-49

American Dad (R, 7:30pm, 29 minutes)
- 3.824 million viewers
- 2.2/4 HH
- 1.7/5 A18-49

The Simpsons (7:59pm, 31 minutes)
- 6.047 million viewers
- 3.3/5 HH
- 2.8/8 A18-49

Bob’s Burgers
- 4.648 million viewers
- 2.6/4 HH
- 2.2/6 A18-49

Family Guy (R, 29 minutes)
- 5.518 million viewers
- 3.2/5 HH
- 2.7/7 A18-49

American Dad (9:29pm, 31 minutes)
- 4.993 million viewers
- 3.0/5 HH
- 2.5/7 A18-49

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 21:45 | 1130997's picture dropped those facts in 30 seconds.....

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 00:58 | 1131423 Haywood Jablowme
Haywood Jablowme's picture

What a fuckin' joke.  These asshole bankstas wanna' settle?  LMFAO

So the bankstas settle with the already broke / financially strained / overly stressed homeowner for the right to ownership claim for paper fiat that they know will be worth zero in a few years time.  LMFAO. 

All of those people standing in useless lines.  LMFAO.  The lady who's teary-eyed, sitting at the table to discuss a loan modification, about to get financially raped AGAIN by the same banksta rep / institution that's holding out a box of kleenex because they fucking care so much.  LMFAO.  Majority of American society really is that fuckin' stupid.  More so especially for the ones that take the banksta settlement.

Time to wake up people.  Many missed the train to use their "credit" to enter into long-term PM bullion positions prior to the bankstas decreasing credit lines on a whim or taking away the easy credit all together.   Here's your second chance.  Time to strategically default on your mortgages as many have been discussing this very topic easily for the past 1-1.5 years already.  Unfortunately for many citizens of the USSofA, they'll fuck this one up too.


Mon, 04/04/2011 - 05:53 | 1131598 obelisks
obelisks's picture

keep you eyes on American Idol.....

You feeling dizzy... very dizzy just relax and dont fight

the banks( oops I meant dont fight the feeling ) ... you feeling sleepy......

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 07:09 | 1131628 mophead
mophead's picture

Fraudclosure = excuse for mass principle write-downs:


Sun, 04/03/2011 - 21:55 | 1131017 pemdas
pemdas's picture

Franz, I think you've been dissed.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:59 | 1131189 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture

The correct term is "p0wned"

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 00:19 | 1131379 franzpick
franzpick's picture

No sweat; if I get dis-missed, break it to me gently.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:20 | 1131082 Tater Salad
Tater Salad's picture

"paying mortgages if for suckers"?


Tyler, you should run for Obama's cabinet, you'd make a nice addition!

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:31 | 1131112 Tyler Durden
Tyler Durden's picture

Only when the Ministry of Sarcasm is given primae noctis rights and privileges.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:50 | 1131155 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Nice job, but can you break those numbers out into non performing loan viewers???

edit: Hmm, now that I think about it, we would need to know who actually holds the mortgage to find that out. Big Emily Latella "never mind" from the hulkster here...

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 02:12 | 1131505 Hacksaw
Hacksaw's picture

Yep, but just think about the exponential number of 14m telling 10 of their friends what they saw on 60 minutes. Then those folks telling 10 of their friends. Those kind of numbers would definitely put a pucker factor on the bankers. Don't worry corporate shills we know the unions caused all the problems. Bwahahaha

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 23:31 | 1131269 tmosley
tmosley's picture

If we can't get them out, we'll breed them out.  

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 00:46 | 1131414 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

I'd rather weed them out.  My only desire to have a societal breakdown is so that there is no more rule of law on the streets, and the banksters and "elites" that got us here will be fair game and open season.

I was talking to my brother tonight who is finally getting a loan modification, days before his house was to be put up for auction.  I don't know who has the first but Citi (formerly Countrywide) has the second, and that's the loan that my brother was in default.  Mother fuckers tried to buy out the first so that they could foreclose on it and sell it because he had equity in it (he bought in the 1990s way before all the suckers).

The nerve of these mother fuckers.

Like I said, I'm hoping for collapse for the sole purpose of open season on the people that do this to other people.  It is time to rid the Earth of this breed of human.

As the Illuminati so courteously do for us, you are warned.

I am Chumbawamba.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 01:03 | 1131438 Michael
Michael's picture

I just thank God 200,000,000 fire arms are in the hands of ordinary US citizens.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 09:41 | 1132057 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

and billions of rounds of ammunition, but no will to use them.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 00:59 | 1131433 Michael
Michael's picture

60 Minutes (7:17pm)
- 14.811 million viewers
Add + 1 for me who saw it hear first at ZH.

I usually don't waste my time watching MSM 24/7 infomercial news garbage, so I got spoiled with MOX and ZH highlights of the stuff worthy of watching presented by Daily Paul and Zero Hedge at my viewing convenience. 

Thanks for the video Tyler. It Rocked!

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 01:31 | 1131466 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

The sarcasm here is pure genius....

Thanks for keeping it real.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 02:50 | 1131523 luciusfargo
luciusfargo's picture

"It may sound bizarre, but it turns out Wall Street cut corners when it created those mortgage backed investments that triggered the financial collapse."

You'll have some competition for that Ministry of Sarcasm position, by the looks of it.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 03:59 | 1131560 Zerohedge fan
Zerohedge fan's picture

Tyler, you are as good as me.

I just robbed them naked short of my $.2 mil worth of visas, mc's, amexes. That dough went into silver. You know that sweet Zug corporation?!?!?.

And, guuuuuuess what? I negotiated pay off with 10-20c on a buck. So my credit is clean, now. More those rats send me pre approvals, again. I am a good credit risk, I guess. What a bizarre world, we leave in?

What bus driver?

What bus driver?

Tyler, you, you complete me!

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 10:36 | 1132252 Founders Keeper
Founders Keeper's picture

[I just robbed them naked short of my $.2 mil worth of visas, mc's, amexes...]---Zerohedge fan

Congratulations! You've attained the moral equivalent of bankster. JPMorgan is hiring. You oughta fit right in.


Mon, 04/04/2011 - 06:29 | 1131615 Miss Expectations
Miss Expectations's picture

There must be a latin equivalent for sloppy seconds.  Sheila even said something about sloppy...

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:23 | 1131088 jkruffin
jkruffin's picture

You forgot Two and a Half Men  or did people stop watching since Charlie checked in to the Geisha House?

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:37 | 1131127 SparkyvonBellagio
SparkyvonBellagio's picture

How many for 'An Idiot Abroad'?

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 23:51 | 1131320 Montgomery Burns
Montgomery Burns's picture

Hmmm. I would have thought The Simpsons would be much higher.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 00:18 | 1131376 Rastadamus
Rastadamus's picture

Facts, Bitchesz!

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 00:48 | 1131417 max2205
max2205's picture

What time is that American Dead show on?

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 00:54 | 1131428 msamour
msamour's picture

Zing, Tyler scores an easy one here!

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 10:13 | 1132182 Cvillian
Cvillian's picture

So I sent a "where's the note" via certified mail to JPM several months ago but never heard anything. My condo complex is a short-sale/foreclosure-littered mess (going on 2.5 years now). I am frustrated with the bank for not formally acknowledging the absolute mess that is my community. At the end of the day, I would love to sell the property right now, at a short-sale price most likely, and have the opportunity to pay off the remaining loan balance over time (don't have enough cash to close). I don't live in the property anymore and don't want the hassle of keeping it up as a landlord. Amazingly, that "extended payoff" idea doesn't seem to be an option with any bank. So now I am back to idea of going after JPM for any mistakes they made at loan origination, in hopes that I might get some sort of leverage on a payoff plan.

Curious to know board thoughts on the type of attorney I should retain to do the follow-up on my documentation?

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 21:49 | 1131008 Twindrives
Twindrives's picture

Careless Whisper A.K.A. Irresponsible Flatuance

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:05 | 1131049 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

To: Careless Whisper

Your post lives up to your name.


Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:21 | 1131070 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Some in the ZH community need to learn how to say "welcome aboard."

Allies are where ever we find them.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 23:01 | 1131194 and so on...
and so on...'s picture

This was an excellent post!

Tyler, continue the good work - I appreciate it!

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 23:40 | 1131297 Doña K
Doña K's picture

@ Careless Wispers

If you are not benefiting from this blog, why are you here so often?

Banks are criminal. Kill the poisonous snake or put it away from humans

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 23:56 | 1131332 pods
pods's picture

Hey, venomous snakes aren't THAT bad.  I mean, they do keep the rodent population under control.

Hmmm, maybe they are the answers to banksters?


Mon, 04/04/2011 - 00:57 | 1131430 msamour
msamour's picture

A few thousands venomous snakes launched upon the various buildings of Wall Street would be an excellent idea. Let us be sure to strike the GoldMan Sack, and The JP Morgan first before they get their hands on the anti venom.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 00:55 | 1131429 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Careless is good people. Tyler did it nice and gentle, this is fight club remember. I'm sure the blanket party has had it's intended effect.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 01:32 | 1131471 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Hey sweet girl, how's that silver price working for you?

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 02:17 | 1131508 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Real well Bay, thank you very much. I started buying at 15. My last buy in was at 27. I keep waiting for a dip, and when they happen, they are so short I don't have time to act on them (I will be at work or the dealer is closed). And it does keep going up. Gold the same way.

As you probably remember, you and Queen Bee and Mish are the reason I got started with Gold. I was so scared to buy in at 800 (plus 70 premium) my first 10 ounces. No regrets. I imagine you are beyond fine, been at this a lot longer. It just is what it is, isn't it? :-) Always happy to see you posting over here.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 05:57 | 1131601 Golden monkey
Golden monkey's picture

Don't buy bottles of water and canned food. Silver bullions are not for you too. Keep shorting metal, sucker.

Suckers like you need don't need ammos; what they need is to pay their mortgage first. When you will run out of water, just go see your bankster for a quick blow job.

Tell me, how does it feel to be a slave?

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 02:56 | 1131527 CH1
CH1's picture

Who watches? The "head in the sand" people. Hence, this was of some significance.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 21:40 | 1130989's picture

If you can afford to pay your mortgage don't you have the moral obligation to do so even if the values is less now then when you bought it?  No? 

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 21:47 | 1131001 ZackAttack
ZackAttack's picture

It's a contact. There's language about offer, acceptance and consideration. It says fuck-all about morality.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:53 | 1131179 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Zack, morality is the untimate moving target, and is largely defined by teh culture and time it rests in.

The only morality I see in this case is the fear of prosecution/persecution based morality. Talk about a moving target eh? We will get away with what we can. And this is a global phenomenon. It's why you'll never hear the word morality in a judgement in the court of law (oxy-moronish as that is in and of itself in this current lwrod (that would be twisted world) we live in).


Sun, 04/03/2011 - 21:49 | 1131007 tmosley
tmosley's picture

You can't be moral in an immoral system.  We'll have to settle for economical, for now.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 00:09 | 1131360 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

I save my morality for flesh and blood and handshake deals.   Corporations, aka paper souless constructs deserve no morality since they exhibit none.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 21:52 | 1131011 stollcri
stollcri's picture

The golden rule says something like, "do onto others as they would do onto you." So, the question seems to be, "how would the bankers treat you?" Do they have any moral obligation to their "customers?"

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 21:59 | 1131030's picture

I understand your side and at times agree...but aren't we bringing ourselves down to their level?  We need to take contol of the system from the top down...starting with the Federal Reserve....that will get their attention.....

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:07 | 1131058 stollcri
stollcri's picture

I dutifully pay my mortgage. But, I know people who are not paying theirs and are living much better than I am (getting new cars, going to Starbucks, riding their horses on the weekend, etc.).

I'm honestly not sure what to think about this whole mess. It just seems that people who "do the right thing" are getting screwed the most. How long will it be before those people get tired of being screwed.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:16 | 1131077 EvlTheCat
EvlTheCat's picture

The prudent shall inherent the Earth!  Be patient!

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:27 | 1131101 Bill DeBurgh
Bill DeBurgh's picture

Unfortunately, the prudent's savings will be inflated to worthless. PMs? Got em. I fear confiscation and/or confiscatory-level taxation.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 00:03 | 1131344 EvlTheCat
EvlTheCat's picture

I gifted them to my poor crazy aunt who for some reason took to wearing a diaper on her head and digging holes in her 400 acre backyard.  She buried everything in the house, can you believe it?  Honest, mister government official, I had the metal detector out there yesterday and found her worthless collection of 16th century chastity belt's, but no gold or silver.

On a serious note.  Who knows about confiscation.  I am sure they will try it, but enforcing it will be another story.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 00:26 | 1131365 EvlTheCat
EvlTheCat's picture

It is funny I got junked for using the word prudent.  I didn't say, "the honest would inherent the Earth" or "the meek" as is the biblical phrase is traditionally associated with.  I think 3 of you rubes need to look up the definition for the word "prudent".

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:17 | 1139029 emaij
emaij's picture

If capitalism were in operation, I would agree with this assertion.. but right now the Fed is doing everything it can to impoverish the prudent to enrich the immoral. Then again, if by "prudent" you mean don't hold US dollars, you may be correct.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:43 | 1131144 JustPrintMoreDuh
JustPrintMoreDuh's picture

moral hazard bitchez

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 23:43 | 1131301 Missiondweller
Missiondweller's picture

No kidding.

Imagine, you quit paying your mortgage, continue living there for 500+ days and spend your mortgage money buying sillver and gold.

Would that make you a genius or a scoundrel?

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 01:02 | 1131439 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture


Mon, 04/04/2011 - 01:26 | 1131460 d_senti
d_senti's picture

It's not immoral to default on your mortgage, as it's not a breach of contract; rather it's a possible outcome of the contract, a circumstance provided for by it. So you're not being immoral by not paying your mortgage, as long as you're willing to accept the consequences of default.

Now, if the other party is in breach of contract (which is a real possibility with how the banks operate), then it's a whole new ball of wax. You have no obligation to pay mortgage payments to someone who doesn't even hold the title to your property, nor do they have any right to take the house from you. In that case, fighting it is all good.

But keep in mind that the people who do the right thing ALWAYS get screwed the most. If doing the right thing was as easy or easier than doing the wrong thing, why would anyone do the wrong thing? Most of the time being virtuous entails personal loss or suffering to some degree.

A religious person such as myself would say that it'll more than balance out at the end, but you may not agree. Regardless, it's wise to never make the assumption that the system will reward you for being upright.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:38 | 1131131 lincolnsteffens
lincolnsteffens's picture

Hey, the word is not onto it is UNTO. Sheessz, I got thrown out of college in my first year but there are a lot of interesting spellings showing the New English teaching results just like New Math garbage producing no one who can add or subtract simple numbers in their head.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 23:35 | 1131277 Midwest Prepper
Midwest Prepper's picture

I thought it was "Do unto others and run!"

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 04:43 | 1131576 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Do unto others before they do it unto you.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:15 | 1131071 James
James's picture

It is immoral to deal with an immoral entity in a moral way.

If I had an "underwater" mortgage I would walk.

Unless, of course,  I was a masochist

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:15 | 1131078 IrrationalMan
IrrationalMan's picture

the point that you are missing with the question is that it is a question of who.  if you take out a loan from bank A, and then it gets transfered to B, C, D and E, you need to make sure that your payment go to the one that actually holds the note. 


Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:37 | 1131133 Kickaha
Kickaha's picture

You appear to have missed the main point of the 60 Minute story.  Right now, there is a good chance that nobody knows who holds your mortgage.

One side effect of this circumstance is that after you have paid $800,000 over 30 years, there is nobody who can give you a Discharge of Mortgage.  Without that, you cannot sell your home to anybody.

Well, you've got moral hazard on one hand, and stupidity hazard on the other.  You can decide on your own how they balance out for you.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:53 | 1131176's picture

If you are uncertain of who really owns your mortgage you should speak with an attorney, and have them set up a payment escrow account that you can pay into your normal monthly payment while the matter is resolved....seems to me like a lot of people just rather not pay their mortgage because it is more fun to spend the money at best buy.....they are looking for an easy way out and do not want to accept any responsability for buying a 500K home that is now worth 200k....I am not a fan of banks at all but they are an easy target...just like Isreal in the Middle East...

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 23:07 | 1131208 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

And here's your answer, bitch:

Mortgage Bankers Association Strategic Default
Sun, 04/03/2011 - 23:48 | 1131310 Midwest Prepper
Midwest Prepper's picture

Gotta love the Daily Show!

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 23:50 | 1131321 Missiondweller
Missiondweller's picture

Damn that was funny!

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 02:02 | 1131495 dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

an easy target like palestinian kids

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 23:16 | 1131235 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Not really...  there is an original mortgage out there, filed from the original closing...  upon refi, sale, or repayment, that original mortgage will be released (the title company will handle this at closing)...  as a result, the land records will not show a lien.  Now, whether another party might have an unrecorded cause of action to assert a lien is another thing altogether...  but, the mortgagor may never of had any privity of contract with any subsequent assignees...  and, practically speaking, if there is nothing filed of record, you can get rid of the house and a BFP will take free and clear...  so then, some foreign asshole has to attempt to come into your courtroom and allege that despite all its transgressions and those before it in the chain of assignment, it is somehow entitled to the proceeds of the sale...  good luck with that one.

In the end, it boils down to a lot of debtors wanting a free lunch and to avoid their comeuppance.  The neat part though, the banks don't want their comeuppance either, so we're left in foreclosure purgatory.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 23:46 | 1131253 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

See video I posted above and then give your answer more completeness.

Everyone who said "oh, you can't default...that's immoral!" has defaulted.

That included Countrywide, Goldman Sachs, Bank of Wanking Amerika, JP Morgue, blah blah blah da deet da deet da da.

Everyone gets free money, bailouts, TARP, TALF, MILF, iPad, SNAP, SNAFU, SISFU and other treats.

This is The Bernank's real virtuous circle.

As for the law - I posted this further down:

Any transfers through MERS broke the chain of title, as MERS is a fiction and worse yet, a fraud.

MERS never had the ability to legally bypass recording offices (typically registrar of deeds' offices) at local levels, and effectuate a bona fide recording of assignment, mortgage or any other lien or encumbrance, period.

But wait...they still have the original documents (mortgages, assignments, etc.) right? And they can just go and record them now, right?

Ahhhhh, no. That shit went into the bass-o-matic when the mortgages/assignments were 'synthesized' (i.e. sliced 1000 ways each) with a shred of each one going by electronic means only into bundles of CDOs, where hundreds of thousands or millions or even hundreds of millions of other miniscule shreds of mortgages were placed.


Congress and the Bankstas can't solve this, because the genie is out of the bottle; they'd have to overrule the 10th Amendment (literally) and they'd have to wish for the three pointer of get ex post facto laws enacted, to legitimize and legalize prior acts of MERS.

MERS is and always was a fiction, fraud and Ponzi (see the issue of 'put backs' on MBS).

The litigation floodgate hasn't opened fully yet because the banks are nervous shits right now, and for good reason.

Congress and their bankster overlords haven't figured out a way to get good odds on state law property issues in front of the higher courts, and they FEAR adverse stare decisis, bitchez.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 09:47 | 1132077 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

I'm not sure how more completely I could make my answer when I acknowledged both banks and debtors needed their comeuppances... 

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 01:09 | 1131444 msamour
msamour's picture

A good friend of mine paid his mortgage in the State of Il for 3 years only to be told afterwards that the bank he paid it to never actually applied the payment to the mortgage. He tried to fight them in court but to no avail. He lost 3 years of payment, and they thrashed his credit. Moral of that story. People of your country should have absolutely no pity towards any bankers for any considerations, PERIOD!

Anyone left with "morals" can bend over and continue to take it if they so wish to. Smart people should have walked away when they realized the whole scheme was rigged. We have similar problems in Canada, also.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 09:52 | 1132094 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Very, very possible.  The trick here is that you should get a statement in the mail every month with a "remaining principal balance" line...  if that's not going down, something is awry.  Further, any time your mortgage is assigned, you should get a notice...  especially if the servicer changes...  if, after notice, you keep paying the old servicer, then you may have some troubles.  Also, I would argue this is the exception and not the rule...  your friend likely left significant causes of action on the table...  presuming they were available (need more facts).  In other words, at the very least, he should have had a slough of equitable challenges/defenses.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 01:50 | 1131484 bigkahuna
bigkahuna's picture

I suspect the federal  reserve is going to go after all of the government backed residential mortgages, which is about roughly 80 percent of them. It is going to end up the same way as that Rush tune:


"The Trees" 

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:49 | 1131166 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Gratz. You have made me spew my Amstel on my keyboard. Funny Stuff!

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 23:09 | 1131205 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

If you can afford to pay your mortgage don't you have the moral obligation to do so even if the values is less now then when you bought it?  No?


Here's your answer, bitch:


Mortgage Bankers Association Strategic Default
Sun, 04/03/2011 - 23:16 | 1131240's picture

Ok...we live in a world now where two wrongs make a everyone should stop paying their mortgage?  Doesn't it seem that the banks are being set up as the fall guys while the FED is running amok?  I think a lot of people are going to stop paying their mortgages and that will lead to them not living in their house anymore, with a fat deficiency judgement and forced into bankruptcy....

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 23:18 | 1131244 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

You smell like Sock Puppet.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 23:24 | 1131259's picture

that was good...

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 23:37 | 1131282 tickhound
tickhound's picture

Strategic default... A tactic used by so many of our "moguls".  Just ask Donald Trump, and nearly every bank to which we owe allegiance.

Guilting the "little guy" by way of moral obligation, so to insist he be the final holder of the hot potato, is mighty noble of you. 

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 23:43 | 1131307 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

The Bernank, The Balded Hank Paulson & The Timmay Jeetner are all about socializing losses for their friends and overlords.

Socializing losses = Average working Americans pay the tab (you know this already).

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 23:52 | 1131330 tickhound
tickhound's picture

Socializing losses = Average working Americans pay the tab (you know this already).

I do... But preach on, you're on a roll tonight.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 01:19 | 1131453 mkkby
mkkby's picture

Let me fix that for you... sock puppet poon tang.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 23:34 | 1131278 CitizenPete
CitizenPete's picture

LMFAO - Beautiful ! Thanks for posting the link! POwned him.


Shit now if I could do simple math I might be able to complete the CAPTCHA... where the fuck is my calculator. 

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 23:13 | 1131225 malek
malek's picture

If you can afford to pay your mortgage don't you have the moral obligation to do so even if the values is less now then when you bought it?  No?

No, you don't. But you have no obligation to stop paying either. You can choose and live with the consequences.
And that's all I have to say about that.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 01:21 | 1131457 Michael
Michael's picture

Morality is immaterial in a contract. The terms of the agreement is the only thing that needs to be fulfilled.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 08:42 | 1131794 j0nx
j0nx's picture

Morality has exactly DICK to do with a financial transaction. This is business bitch. It aint personal.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 21:45 | 1130990 Cleanclog
Cleanclog's picture

Avg. delinquency is 537 days but about to become much less as everyone who pays a mortgage realizes that even doing everything "right", they may not have title to the same property that they've diligently been paying on after they have paid it off.

We should all ask our servicer that we send the monthly check to whether there is clear title, and "who" is the check recipient.  If unclear, we should sop paying.  This mess is huge and has extraordinary implications.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 21:43 | 1130994 ss123
ss123's picture

Now makes me wonder if the foreclosure I bought was actually a foreclosure.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 21:47 | 1131002 Cleanclog
Cleanclog's picture

Actually, yes.  A concern.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 21:50 | 1131010 ss123
ss123's picture

If it wasn't a foreclosure, those Fckers better refund me my last 3 years of mortgage payments. (I suppose they'll say I was really just paying rent so no refund is possible.)

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:24 | 1131089 Thomas
Thomas's picture

Big time concern. Your title may not be clean.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 23:23 | 1131252 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Don't worry bub, as long as the bank performing the foreclosure remains solvent or attempts to appear so, you'll get paid.  Further, the bank would have had to commit a fraud upon the court or otherwise do something (or refrain from doing something, e.g. proper notice) that voids the foreclosure decree...  not that it matters, given the debtor who had it before you will get booted out again in a month after defaulting...  (again).  Also, hopefully your title policy covers it...  and, if all else fails, there's always laches.  Your state probably has a betterment statute also...  so, any improvements you make in the meantime should be returned...

A lot more ways for you to get paid than to get screwed...

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 01:27 | 1131464 Michael
Michael's picture

The  foreclosure I bought for 29K, originally sold new in 2006 for 311K, was a grow house with very little damage. I don't think the growers will be challenging the foreclosure any time soon.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 21:50 | 1131005's picture

I don't even want to think about that....we bought about 35 of title insurance but if you buy the house for 20k....put 20k into it and then lose it to the original owner, your only covered for the original 20k and are out the this when people with pitchforks and torches start marching?

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 21:53 | 1131018 ss123
ss123's picture

Wow. One would think there has to be at least one with screwed up paper work. And at least two signed by Linda Green.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:01 | 1131037's picture

It really gets messy when one considers we resold all but 4 of are they going to unwind multiple owners?

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 03:05 | 1131529 Hacksaw
Hacksaw's picture

I see, thought you would profit a little off others misery did you? Now you are concerned you might be entwined in a big mess.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 23:23 | 1131258 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Why would you be out the improvements?  No betterment statute?  No court of equity?  Pretty simple policy rule to encourage landowners to put their land to its best use...

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 21:49 | 1130999 ss123
ss123's picture

I'm changing my user name to Linda Green.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:53 | 1131175 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Me too.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 23:17 | 1131224 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

The Linda Green

The Vampire Squid

The JP Morgue

The Bernank

The Blythe Masters

Discount Window for Wankin' Fukkin' Bankers

The Anthony Mozilo

The Dick 'Fold' Fuld

The Josh Frost

Goldmanite William 'Let them eat iPad' Dudley

The Repo 105

The Quantitative Easing

POMO Monday through Fridays

TARP Bailout for Naughty Banksters

The Bald Headed, GS Stock Vested, Hank Paulson


The Pr0n Surfing 'Can't Be Bothered' SEC

Timmay Jeetner


Pretty soon, Joe Sixpack & Wynona Wine Cooler are going to catch on to at least a feel for the truth. Shit will get real, then, homeslice.

Shit gonna get Donkey Kong.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 06:01 | 1131602 Cant see me
Cant see me's picture

Me too

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 21:50 | 1131006 cubical
cubical's picture

What does walking away from your house do to your credit?

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:07 | 1131056 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Stop caring!

If you dont have credit, you are more likely not to have debt.

Fuck the banks.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 00:56 | 1131427 Calculated_Risk
Calculated_Risk's picture

Speaking from experience.. it is the ultimate liberatiing feeling... well that and buying pm's to opt out of the criminal banking cartels rat race.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 01:14 | 1131449 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture
by Pladizow
on Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:07

Stop caring!

If you dont have credit, you are more likely not to have debt.

Fuck the banks.


Liquidity = Freedom

Debt = Shackled Slavery & Indebted Servitude

Credit & Credit Scores = Designed to bring about Debt, thus intended to bring about Shackled Slavery & Indebted Servitude


Mon, 04/04/2011 - 22:14 | 1135411 FIAT_FixItAgainTony
FIAT_FixItAgainTony's picture

thank you truth.  why do peeps fail to comprehend the simple fact of f@#k what the banks think.  that means f@#k the credit score and f@#k the "moral thing" issue.  i got rid of all my bank accounts 1.5 years ago.  you don't need them.  we've been brainwashed into thinking banker's alleged credit ratings of us matters.  it doesn't.  where there credit cards when america was founded?  no there was not.  did people survive?  yes they did.  mortgages are contracts.  all matters are in commerce.  banks broke the contracts, so f@#k them.  yes, the war is on and it has been for some time now.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 21:59 | 1131012 rawsienna
rawsienna's picture

look. If the borrower is not paying and a modification is not suitable, they should lose the home. All those rooting for people to stop paying should realize that most of these loans are guaranteed by FHR.FNM or FHA  - that us u/me and everyone else .  The banks are wrong to and should be prosecuted for forgery but the loans are not getting paid and the house is the collateral. 

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:11 | 1131062 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Even worse - is the fact that most of America's largest state pension funds hold these mortgages.

Someone walks away from their mortgage and coincidently could be possibly fucking there own pension.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:43 | 1131143 lincolnsteffens
lincolnsteffens's picture

You must be good at chess. Able  to think several moves ahead!! And how right you are.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 00:40 | 1131406 iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

per their own mandate. The pensions would only buy AAA rated MBS.. Same for all the .edu that had sizable endowments to manage...

They were all "AAA" right???  oh wait..  Octo of Ohama paid for AAA through GS..  then hedged at AIG..


ahh,  fuck it..  stop paying your mort..  and stop caring.... 

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 05:08 | 1131583 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

It's very simple... What cannot be paid will not be paid.

The azzhat pols and bankers wanted to transfer all good jobs overseas and got their wish. The greedy bastards should have been careful what they wished for. Now they have a population that cannot pay and they are trying to 'socialize the losses'... Screw them.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:13 | 1131069 narnia
narnia's picture

It's not a real guarantee.  The only thing that makes it such is Geithner saying it is and Treasury Department treating it as such.

The residential real estate sector needs to be looked at as one big cumulative work out.  The Fed allows banks to print money through fractional banking because, well, they're banks.  Banks want to made money on the system on the way up, want to make money on every loan they can, and they want their losses to be covered by some implicit guarantee on the bank end (not to mention the Greenspan put).  Ultimately, a mortgage is worthy of default or unaffordable because of the interest rate on the debt...  there's no other reason.

The only real solution here is for the Treasury to come out and say, hey banks, you need to change every mortgage to 30 year, mark down every mortgage in America to 1% for a series of years depending how underwater people are.  I've actually thought this for many years.  Defaults would go down dramatically (people would come current, why would you move out of your home to rent another place for more?), bank pass through losses would go down & the taxpayer comes out without too many problems.  Banks that don't participate, I'd just say that little implicit guarantee is no longer there...  and we're going to go ahead and institute a "windfall" profits tax for any benefit you have had from all of the multiple bailouts.    

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 23:14 | 1131232 Advoc8tr
Advoc8tr's picture

What was borrowed from the bank was created at the time the mortgage was registered. It is not some other poor citizens savings. I don't see the immorality, rather I see an opportunity for the citizen to get their share of the bailouts. Possesion is literally 9/10 of the law in a situation where there are millions in the same predicament (armed and angry to boot) The banks will get bailed out again.


Mon, 04/04/2011 - 01:31 | 1131469 Michael
Michael's picture

I'm rooting for everyone to live rent free as long as possible. I'm a humanitarian.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 21:52 | 1131013 yabyum
yabyum's picture

Linda Green, Paging Linda Green: Congradulations! You have destroyed the American Real Estate market for the next twenty years.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 23:12 | 1131228 malek
malek's picture

A toast to that! Maybe someday I can also start seriously thinking about buying a house.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 00:51 | 1131421 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

They probably hired her because her name was an inside joke:

Lend the Green

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 21:56 | 1131022's picture

So the big question is do we make money on this information?  Any way to play this?

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:12 | 1131063 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Easy - Buy PM's.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 23:35 | 1131281 Sunshine n Lollipops
Sunshine n Lollipops's picture

I would think the big question for you is whether those 35 repos you flipped were phantoms and if yer gonna be chokin' on blowback if they unwind.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 04:37 | 1131573 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Flusa, you really stick out, possibly needing a hammer to the big toe i nthe sock.  One extreme to the other; a morality speech, then establish bona fides with your 35 foreclosure purchases, now you just want a smart play...  I say go away.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 21:55 | 1131024 DB Cooper
DB Cooper's picture

Is that Bill Murray?

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:24 | 1131094 Jreb
Jreb's picture

Frick - I'm glad i wasn't the only one thinking that.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 23:06 | 1131210 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

nah, just Carl Spackler...seems his Caddy Shack is in foreclosure

I think I saw him commenting downthread

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 21:57 | 1131029 tickhound
tickhound's picture

"...the irresponsible, perhaps criminal way, that some mortgage companies handled..."

perhaps breaking the law is criminal, says 60 minutes.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:24 | 1131090 Kickaha
Kickaha's picture

Not that I'm in favor of electing to go after the $10.00/hr. doofuses first, but they just all admitted on national TV to conspiracy in the making of false affidavits, which is probably a felony, and that is just for starters.

I'd love to hear the employers of docx get on the witness stand and explain they had "no idea" that such shenanigans were occuring.  Especially if I was on the jury.

I'm not familiar with RICO requirements, but it seems that RICO would be the appropriate response to this problem.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 23:06 | 1131211 Savyindallas
Savyindallas's picture

sadly the $10 an hour doofuses are probably the only ones they will go after. I was a fraud prosecutor in Dallas for 6 years from 89-95. I would never touch these kids, but I assure you there are plenty of lazy prosecutors, police and fraud investigators who  would file cases on these schmucks, get the easy convictions and then sit on their asses and do nothing to get the real crooks  -kind of like what is going on now.  -it's been a couple of years since the meltdown. Do you believe the DOJ, SEC and FBi are close to getting even a small number of the real crooks? They should, but likely won't. Why? The politicians, FBI, SEC, DOJ and naitional media are just as complicit in the whole gigantic major fraud upon America. Until we get rid of the barney Franks, Chuck Schumers, Pelosis and Boenhers -nothing will happen. At least we ran off Chris Dodd - and we go Rand paul. That's a pretty good trade. 

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 00:44 | 1131411 Judge Holden
Judge Holden's picture

Are you familiar with the phrase, "Create enough hunger, and everyone becomes a criminal."?  That people were willing to do this for the magnificent sum of $10/hour speaks VOLUMES about modern America.

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 05:16 | 1131584 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

The FBI was reporting 'massive loan fraud by mortgage originators' in 2004... way before the meltdown...and no one did a damn thing about it.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:00 | 1131034 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

And so a raise on debt renders the sole raison d'être

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 21:59 | 1131038 gbresnahan
gbresnahan's picture

Any bank involved in this scam (Wells Fargo, HSBC, US Bank, Bank of America, Citibank, Deutsche Bank) should be dissolved immediately.  These are all criminal organizations.  These failed companies are resorting to criminal actions in a last ditch attempt to stay solvent.  Stop doing business with them.  We need to send a message loud and clear.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 21:59 | 1131039 bania
bania's picture

"Which of course is precisely what the banks want... benefit is about to double to $100 billion per year, all of which will accrue to the banking system first."

Help me out, why is this better for a bank than someone paying rent, and how are the "rent" benefits accruing to the banking system first?

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:35 | 1131122 Tyler Durden
Tyler Durden's picture

One simple example: what will happen to the XLF, the RUT, and therefore, the (reflexive) economy, when BofA, GS and DB all hike GDP expectations in unison (well not today, thanks GS for spoiling the party)? This is not a trick question.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:42 | 1131147 bania
bania's picture

yeah, in terms of a short term pop you're probably right but longer term i just can't see how turning the taps off millions of annuity streams can't weigh heavily on these banks.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:48 | 1131167 Tyler Durden
Tyler Durden's picture

Wall Street is on a 1 year bonus term.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 23:17 | 1131236 lincolnsteffens
lincolnsteffens's picture

Tyler, when GDP goes up less than the inflation rate (which is falsely reported  to the public) it will be declared as proof the economy is rebounding. I can hear the Pres. declaring "Hallelujah!! we are making a dramatic recovery". Unfortunately the fact that the GDP is heading up belies the fact that  GDP in real purchasing power has declined not increased.

That means my position in SKF I just added to will go down a bit further. On the other hand, silver is up in Asia tonight, stock futures are down and I'm still sitting on a 250% profit on AGQ in less than one year. And a big thanks to you and my luck finding ZeroHedge. Your vision of important and timely news reports has given me information and more confidence to make positive changes as world events impact my solvency.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:01 | 1131041 Cinfultreat
Cinfultreat's picture

reminds me of the first fast and furious when nobody owned the Eclipse....the spikey haired, tight pants, asians emptied machine guns into it........NOS!!!!!!!!!!!

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:15 | 1131073 Kickaha
Kickaha's picture

Sheila wants the multi-billion dollar fund because actually trying to re-create the chain of title to a home will reveal that the same mortgage was used to back more than one MBS in many, many instances.

The banks look silly when three or four of them show up in Court all claiming to be the current assignee of the same mortgage.  It sort of highlights that maybe somebody has committed some fraud.

I wish 60 Minutes would not have so ominously described this as a "problem" for the banks.  Seems to me that if a total stranger shows up at my door, tells me I owe him $250,000, and that he is going to take my house away from me, then sues me, that is a problem for me.  It only becomes a problem for that stranger if I get a lawyer and try to defend myself.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:40 | 1131139 DB Cooper
DB Cooper's picture

+++ exactly!  I'm hoping someone can peel the onion before it's buried.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:18 | 1131083 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

its Amazing all those people sitting outside for 2 days BEGGING to pay their money to a bank servicer who has no standing to foreclose on them.......FIGHT BACK OR DIE TRYING

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:20 | 1131085 I am Jobe
I am Jobe's picture

So who owns your car loans, student loans? Interesting and yeah they are serving you alreight. hang the bitchez

Mon, 04/04/2011 - 01:39 | 1131477 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Auto loans are securitized by UCC-1 financing statement filings with the secretary of state's office in the county in which you reside. This is a lien, demarked as such, clearly on the title, giving notice to all subsequent creditors that the filer of it has priority in the chain of title in property rights of the vehicle, and that is in almost every case filed and is still held by the company that financed the vehicle at the point of sale (GMAC - or Ally - Chrysler Financial, Honda Motor Acceptance Corporation, etc.).

Student loans are unsecured, just like with credit card debt. This is why they reformed the bankruptcy code a few years back to ensure that students who default, either because they are unable or unwilling to pay the loans back, are not able to discharge such debt in bankruptcy proceedings, and that debt will follow them for the rest of their lives, until paid, if ever.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:23 | 1131091 ether
ether's picture

2.5 years rent-free BofA made 30 K Millionaire here.


Suck it bankstas.  I got you for 300 K and haven't worked since.

I told them to take it back when Marla used to still play sets :(

It's cool, i'm moving soon so it looks like BofA will be fronting my own personal medical-marijuana grow house!  For personal medicinal needs of course!

Two can play at this game, Bankstas :)

I'll see your printing-press, and raise you one money-tree!



Sun, 04/03/2011 - 22:53 | 1131174 James
James's picture

You go ether! Give as good as you get.

Everybody asross the U.S.A. should stop paying their mortgage.

If you have a "Moral" issue W/this escrow payments UNTIL all paperwork is in order.

Remember,If you don't make sure your paper work is in order on your house and you keep paying you may find you were screwed 2 - 30 yrs. in the future when you try to sell.

Mass non-payments may actually help you as this crap will be settled collectively and clear up mortgage issues nationwide.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!