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There Goes Wells Fargo: California AG Calls On Banks To Halt All Foreclosures In California
Sorry Warren Buffet and Charlie Munger: the lie was fun while it lasted. Suck it up.
BN *CALIFORNIA AG CALLS ON BANKS TO HALT FORECLOSURES IN CALIFORNIA
and there's more:
BN *AG BROWN SAYS IN TALKS WITH BOFA, ALLY, JPMORGAN, WELLS FARGO
and yes, it's now airborne:
BN *NEW MEXICO AG CALLS FOR SUSPENSION OF MORTGAGE FORECLOSURE
»
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The lie is still fun. Stocks at new daily highs.
anyone see this yet from 4closurefraud?
http://4closurefraud.org/2010/10/08/action-alert-is-pres-obamas-pocket-v...
snip...
The word is out that Pres. Obama’s pocket veto of the Digital Robo-Signing Act was actually a trick. Sen. Harry Reid didn’t actually adjourn the U.S. Senate. The Senate has been kept in session by a little understood ruse and the bill will become law tonight at midnight without the President’s signature.
The big banks will file suit after the election to have this bill declared to be law.
Article I, Section 7 of the U.S. Constitution seems to support this view.
Some drunken bankers were already bragging about this an some major news outlets, including Fox News have reported on this.
Denninger talking about it now
Is there not a single fucking thing that is not broken anymore?
He can talk all the fuck he wants.
Saw this on White House twitter:
For Immediate ReleaseIt is necessary to have further deliberations about the possible unintended impact of H.R. 3808, the "Interstate Recognition of Notarizations Act of 2010," on consumer protections, including those for mortgages, before the bill can be finalized. Accordingly, I am withholding my approval of this bill. (The Pocket Veto Case, 279 U.S. 655 (1929)).
The authors of this bill no doubt had the best intentions in mind when trying to remove impediments to interstate commerce. My Administration will work with them and other leaders in Congress to explore the best ways to achieve this goal going forward.
To leave no doubt that the bill is being vetoed, in addition to withholding my signature, I am returning H.R. 3808 to the Clerk of the House of Representatives, along with this Memorandum of Disapproval.
BARACK OBAMA
THE WHITE HOUSE,
October 8, 2010.
Is this just bullshit?
What else hasn't been? No truth spoken, no promises kept. Friday action to be reported in Saturday newspapers, if not wholly ignored by the MSM.
Sounds like it to me.
Fucked up world we live in. I wish the people of this country had balls...everyone I talk to about this don't know...and when I tell them about it, it rolls off their back. Fuck me.
Hope someone has archived that just in case it's called into question later.
Nope. Barry knows what kind of backlash he'd get from this. Look for an end-run elsewhere...probably ensconced in some emergency appropriations "for the troops" or somesuch.
Did you see they are now claiming this bill was just a shout out to Calvin Coolidge, who was a notary in New Hampshire?
You can't make this shit up
If this is the case, it's horrible truly horrible. They know how bad this really is and they can't get the banks out of this by an legal means. Because they have not only broke federal laws, they broke state laws as well and essentially lied to the court on every instance they did this.
Not to mention enough back taxes to choke a whole Wells Fargo wagon train worth of horsies.
the AG doesn't have a choice here. the AG is responsible for banking documentation re: consumer protection. that means they MUST halt foreclosures. they probably dont want to. it only delays the INEVITABLE and people who don't pay will LOSE THEIR HOMES. this isn't a new idea, of course, people have been losing their homes, boats, cars, mansions, and yes--- THEIR CAVES if they somehow didn't make good on whatever debts were in those days of dragging women around by the hair.
the CA-AG has to see where in the system the problems are occurring, they will take the "LLC" that banks have for doing this kind of mass paperwork that begets mass problems, and the banks will be forced to redo all of the crappy documentation, attornies will be paid, tons of drag on an already overburdened and overregulated system spun into a frenzy again, abd I fully expect Al Sharpton to try and make a statement somewhere, maybe a book tour with respect to the insanity of these HUGE PROFITABLE BUSINESSES THAT MUST BE FINED TAXED AND REGULATED UNTIL THEY DON'T EXIST.
SUCK IT UP? --- I actually agree with Munger in this case. at some point, you have to blame the person who took the risk. it wasn't anyone but me and my wife who decided to buy our house, and clients who acquired golf residences, etc... had the economy kept chugging along, no one would have cared. no one cares until they lose.
then people RATIONALIZE and that means they find people to blame--- since no one likes to admit being wrong. it was the system, it was the other guy driving, it was my parents, it was SOCIETY, my priest, etc...
truth be told, the faster we get this stuff FORECLOSED THE AUCTIONED TO STRONGER HANDS the faster the system recovers. and contrary to popular belief--- BANKS WOULD RATHER NOT FORECLOSE---- IT'S FRIGGING EXPENSIVE TO DO THAT AND TAKE BALANCE SHEET HITS!--- so they're speeding the process out of expediency (wrong idea) to try and get the process behind them, not for any monetary benefit.
yes the AG's job description says he MUST halt the foreclosures. puts another few billion in dead weight cost into the system which will show up as fines to the bankers.... but it won't change the end result at all. you don't pay your bills, stuff gets taken away. truth is, most people are relieved when it's all done because then they can begin living more within their means.
Tyler
Isn't being correct with your prediction such a sweet taste in the mouth? The only bitter part is that you're discussing the end of the world as we know it.
Try some Listerine. It helps.
How now, brown Dow?
If the Senate has not been adjourned, then there may legally be no recess appointments.
Watch that space!
fire one up cali, your stash is safe for now
This just seemed fitting:
Methinks the Bruce doth protest too much!
Is it wrong to feel a bit of 'Schadenfreude' about this?
Well, no matter what happens - equities will ramp. Bad/horrible news - market up due to expectations of QE2. Good news - market up since it's good news!
I wonder if a small tactical nuke launched at the center of a populated U.S. city could propel the Dow to 13,000?
It would clear out a decent % of those nasty distressed properties and therefore be positive for the economy. As an added bonus, unemployment figures would suddenly improve!
Beat me to it.
I hit refresh and saw your comment pop up at the same time as mine. Twisted crowd here at ZH to have the same demented comments pop up like that! lol.
Of course it would . Unemployment would drop, construction would surge, etc. The best thing that could happen to the Dow is the big one stirring up Cali.
As long as it is not the Hamptons.
Nothing wrong with schadenfreude. Here's an instructional video by Gary Coleman, who knows all about being on the other side of the equation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XmZIcmRKkc
Broken Arrow fallacy?
Doesn't Wells hold the lionshare of mortgages?
I think they have the lionshare of HELOCs -- perhaps more than 1T?
Well, it's 1T when you're using mark-2-WTF...
Perhaps not by sheer number, but definitely by value...CA is a pricy RE market and that's where their loans and MBS are cluster(fuck)ed.
I'm gonna MMMBop my way to my foreclosure.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHozn0YXAeE
I know this puts me in a new section of the "kind of out there" camp, but I always rather liked that song. I wish I would not have watched the video, though.
Gross.
Those girls are just tomboys. Why so negative?
I think Pianist in the group is hot.
Actually I just like saying pianist.
lolol
We will have full nationalization of the the banks. What other end game is there?
Hmmmm........... could this be a short-term dollar positive? Bank-runs anyone?
Right, full fascistic socialism of america should be great for the equity indexes! And if people dont like it, off with your heads!
Full nationalization of US banks would be a disaster, but given the way these assholes are running them, they're virtually asking the gvt to step in and do it!
Leo,
You doomer.
lol
I think a possible disaster in exchange for a proven one is a sane risk.
So, rather than taking a broken arm, you would take a pull of Russian Roulette?
Magnitudes need to be taken into account in such scenarios.
I've heard that intelligent people can disagree about things. Including their assessments of risk. Allowing a bankster cartel (that could make the Mafia cower) to continue on its present--and unchanging--course strikes me as fatal. Russian roulette would indeed be preferable, if you like that analogy.
Besides, in original russian roulette there is a way to never lose.
We should have nationalized the banks back in 08/09 instead of TARP and created a Bad Bank for all of the bad assets... That would have allowed them to get all of this bad crap off of their books and allowed for a fresh start... Obama and company (Tim and Summers) advised against this and we are where we are becaus of the incompetent inaction... At some point nationalization HAS to come into play... It will be painful short term but will be good long term.
This is like a snowball, the more it moves the bigger it gets
Desperately lacking thier own printing press and seemingly hung out to dry - could it be the failing state governments / munis / pension funds / etc. that turn to eat the banks and federal government along with fed?
Add Nevada to the list:
Oct. 08, 2010
Copyright © Las Vegas Review-Journal
Nevada attorney general asks lenders to termporarily halt foreclosures
Nevada Attorney General Catherine Cortez Masto sent letters to all residential mortgage lenders in Nevada, asking them to temporarily halt foreclosures, evictions and sales of foreclosed properties, spokeswoman Edie Cartwright said this morning in an e-mail.
Wow..
News for the banks keep getting worse.
Those stocks should be crashing by 3% today.
Instead, they are down pennies.
Yes, every time ZH reports one of these mortgage stories the market spikes. Pretty funny really.
Probably the Fed buying US bank shares since all assets can be purchased all the time anytime now by the Fed. How large will that balance sheet grow? Sigh
I wonder what John Paulson is thinking? Not only is his fund massively long US banks, but he's also got the potential risk that his "greatest ever trade", synthetic CDO may turn sour if the reference assets get bid up in the expectation of legal risks around the mortgage assets. I don't know if these positions were actually ever closed out...
Pretty clear the Fed wants a Dow 11k headline for today to mask this and the jobs news.
Flip of the coin whether its good news or bad news? Seems mostly a political ploy right now, to get the insolent peasantry happy theyre not getting kicked out, for now. But lets see how its good news for the banks when every payment suddenly stops.
It's unfortunate that this is called foreclosure-gate, or foreclosures are invoked to discuss this.
The original sin is that the banks did not appropriately handle, transfer, etc. the original note and mortgage file. In many cases, the note may no longer exist.
Therefore, every note and mortgage securitized say between 2004 and 2008 now has a clouded title. No way that is positive.
MORTGAGE-GATE
I agree. How about Paper-gate?
Isn't the real "original sin" that banks gave housing loans to anyone who could make an X on a sig line for 10 years?
title-gate
Full Retard Gate
This story means nothing,,,,,,just like that Sub Prime thing that happened not too long ago. <sarcasm>, ugh....
Ya keep everybody calm right before columbus weekend. Long weekend.
SOMETHING IS COOKING. They aren't defending 1300 on gold. They are going to go full retard this weekend is the only thing I can think of.
2 people leave the white house this week.
I can't figure out Rahm though. I would have thought he would be down with the plan. I guess we sit and wait and see if they are actually going to do it.
It's not really a long weekend. Markets are open on Monday.
But only markets. Banks are closed no bond auctions.
Figuring out Rahm is easy, they just opened the new NORAD bunker in Chicago, where hes headed to ride out armageddon. People dont realize it yet, but 'game over' is all complete except for the 'event' that unhinges it all.
Hey SheepDog one, you might find this funny/appropos:
http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2010/10/08/the-lighter-side/
;-)
ORI
LOL
Probably your best comment in the past month.. even without the hot chix..
See Chris Whalen, Roubini etc at Wednesday's conference at the American Enterprise Institute:
Living in the Post-Bubble World: What's Next?
http://www.aei.org/event/100297#doc
Full video replay not yet available but certainly by Monday if not sooner. Presentation materials available now. Lachman is the most bearish amongst them. It was my pleasure to see it live in person. Whalen understands -says banks will be forced to reorganize - what this whole panel recommended three years ago. The panelists seem to be calling for more QE. They are better analysts than synthesists - developing solutions.
Just remember how long it took for the "levitating lenders" to crash and burn. About 18 months after a reasonable time. I don't think the political class will have the stomach to bail out the banks again. I have already called and bitched.
Just remember - if the government dos a bailout, the stockholders get hosed.
Recall how long it took DSL to crash and burn after Barrons pointd out that 70% of their earnings came from "imputed interest" off of option ARMS.
So does this mean we should stop making mortgage payments? Even if foreclosures are halted, defaulting would still negatively impact credit scores right? [And yes, I'm aware credit scores won't matter once the majority are sh*&ty]. Just wondering about the practical implications of this news and if I should stop paying on underwater investment properties...
If I was making a mortgage payment Id definitely stop sending checks.
Personally, I'd wait a bit to see how it shakes out. And contact an attorney before you make any decisions. For instance, if your mortgage was kept in-house by a nice local bank, they will still be able to foreclose (and quickly) since the paperwork never left their file cabinets.
If you stop making your mortgage payment, instead of falling, you've went and jumped into the trap.
No one will be allowed to have a free house.
However, trading a worthless property for X ounces of gold might be a good deal.
No one will be allowed to have a free house.
We've paid for the house, it's not free. There are just no more payments because no one else has title.
Did the California AG's office add the legally mandated "I'm Jerry Brown, and I approve this message" tagline?
+10
I am getting soooooooo sick of political ads...
All this is Bonus Fuel for QEII. Why not "throw it in" for good measure.
Another reason to add to your AAPL position. All that disposable money that won't be paid on mortgages will force everyone into the latest iPhone/iPad/iPod.
Assuming bankrupt unemployed americans are sitting on a vault of cash now freed up for some wild 2006 style spend till you drop shoppin sprees? I wouldnt bet on it.
Been working for Apple so far. When we were in a "depression" everyone said Apple would die since people had no money to buy gadgets. But guess what? They continued to grow. More people bought more gadgets regardless of unemployment rates or 401k's losing money.
People will always want what they perceive to be cool regardless of what it does to them financially. When your entertainment is watching American Idol and playing video games, you don't really need to spend much.
I disagree with your comment about people "want what they perceive to be cool regardless...." I do agree that Apple may continue to do well but for different reasons.
One, the typical Mac user is educated, affluent and dedicated. Apple has a large base of hardcore fans that aren't going anywhere soon. (Believe me, I've met some of them - and there is no way they would switch to a PC even if it was half the price). I think the reason why may vary - first computer was a mac, visually oriented, work in graphics ....
Two, you might want to redefine gadgets. How many people do you know use their cell phone as ther primary number. I know I do. I use Skype at home for long distance and my cell as my primary number. I do not have a land line because I would be paying for something I would rarely use. If I were unemployed tomorrow I would hold onto my internet service first and my smart phone second (my phone is not a gadget).
So I do agree with you that Apple might survive whatever is coming up but for different reasons.
Majority of people buy iPhones because they're very functional and many buy them because they perceive them as cool. These people never touched a Mac in their lives. But Jane down the street has one and Mrs. Doe also wants to be cool so she gets one.
Don't confuse the iPhone user with the Mac user.
Yes, your phone is not a gadget but your iPad certainly is. You could argue that you need a phone but an iPad? Really? iTouch? Really? AppleTV? Really?
Eventually, they'll lose market share to competitors and something perceived as being "more cool" will come along. Until then, people will spend money they don't have on gadgets that they perceive as being cool. Always been that way, always will.
+++!
Eating and keeping warm in the winter time is that "more cool" stuff of which you speak!
Very tired - Long weekend here - I know I am right and can find some data to support my position. Later. Have a good weekend
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-G4onYzITc
...it is all about your fuckability index....
I'd have to agree here...we seem to be forgetting most of these ppl bought houses they couldn't afford and have added impact of job loss, etc...they didn't have the money to pay the mortgage in the first place so the mountain of cash they have to spend now seems wildly overrated.
Source please.
God bless you. I've been holding Apple since $ 205. I love Apple. Their products are great. It's also a great stock.
I've heard you say that before. twice.
don't know about iShits, but after today's action, looks most certain much more of that income will be going to towards the grocery bill.
CORN ETV up 14.61% today.
I hate to throw cold water on the vibe here, but I don't see how this could not be sorted out in the bank's favor eventually. Way too frickin' much capital at risk here, plus the whole "moral hazard" thing too. By rights, the banks should have to eat these losses, but the courts will view this as a technical error that can be corrected.
I agree with this. No different than throwing out trades in a flash crash. Like they never happened.
Real estate law is local and very well established in terms of property rights. No original mortgage note, no mortgage. Where's the note?
I don't know how this will settle out, but it could be HUGE.
No tickie, no laundry.
True, but in the majority of cases, an original note will be produced. Besides, if the note isn't available, the bank will argue that the home was never sold and the residents are squatters. Regardless, I don't see anyone getting a free home out of this SNAFU.
I'm sure you're right about this, IS. How, exactly, this will play out is anyone's guess. But no free houses.
Your mortgage note is not your deed to property ownership. It is a lien and the mortgage holder must ensure they are secured in the position they expect. You are very naive if you believe the banks do not fully realize how significant this issue is. Their processes for closing and processing these loans were very questionable in the hay day. They didn't worry as much as they should about crossing the t's and dotting the i's as they never saw this foreclosure tsunami coming -- the wave just took them out. The question is will they aspirate on the water before they can start treading it?
What do you mean they never saw the foreclosure tsunami coming. They plotted it's fucking course. The set up one wave that would spook the market of option arms that reset. Then they set up another wave of them crash the market. It still wasn't enough so they had to pump gas to 4 bucks a gallon to finally drain people's will to pay off debt.
This is as engineered as a gun.
re "prove" who holds the mortgage...IANAL, but demanding proof that the forecloser been assigned as note-holder is very viable in a legal proceding [e.g. in California]. Produce the assignment!
Demanding that a forecloser show or produce the note is not necessarily a recognized right.
There is a difference, in that the law recognizes that to become a note-holder, there must be an assignment as such [and perhaps a recorded assignment].
Affidavit's that are forged are the same thing as lying in open court. It is called perjury, and in these cases, would appear to be felonies.
This is not about a "little irregularity." Milestones
Good luck getting fraud through as a technical error. The error occurred when they did the note in the first place. They've had every opportunity to fix their capital at risk and have chosen not to.
So much SHIT going on in America and market keep pumping... It´s a total BULLSHIT OF A MARKET.
An alternative interpretation is that everyone knows this will all blow over pretty soon, and in the meantime it provides an easy thing to be against going into midterms.
Banks are stocked up on REO properties anyway, so waiting to add these new ones until the end of the year isn't a big deal; they most likely wouldn't be generating income either way.
I am in the "alternative interpretation" camp on this. I think you're spot on.
Definitely, I mean thank god subprime was contained.
Harry: reconsider and look at some of my posts on this. It will not blow over. It is fatal. This MortgageGate is just starting and has potential to be a tsunami. You can't fix "don't own it" that easily in this world, and the tax, property law and other state and federal laws applicable to these highly technical MBS/REMICs are not forgiving when it comes to mistakes. You will see. Think B of A suspended foreclosures in 50 states because of "foreclosure paperwork problems" alone? There is no way they would do that. They have a gun to their heads.
Go long title search companies, and short title insurance companies.
The RMBS market measures in the trillions. Many of them now might not have any collateral. If you were an RMBS buyer and never got any assignment of mortgages, what would you do?
Will there be an RMBS market until they sort this out?
Imagine the political fallout if one were to remind the american tax payer how many shitty MBS's we already own that we might not have clear chain of title to?
Assignment may be key: There must exist an assignment as note-holder in order to establish the note-holder. Thus the proof of assignment can be demanded. IANAL
Something like 93% (or 97% - sorry for the dyslectic numbers jumble - it's 3-something in the nineties- 100-3 or 90+3) of all newly written mortgages are going to the broken Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac; amazing.
It means they can't sell the ones they have now...they have not only issues with those in foreclosure but those they already foreclosed. The risk to banks is how it is perceived to damage their capital not the full on sustained losses that they recognize immediately -- remember the money isn't packed away in a vault...perception is reality
+1 You are exactly correct. Everyone's happy here....banks don't have to take on any more inventory, government gets to bash the evil banks just in times for elections, homeowners get a few more months to buy iPads,and local governments don't have to factor any more foreclosed homes into the tax base. What's not to love???
Why so gloomy everyone? Get your rose colored glasses on and you'll know why the market is so enthusiastic!!
I've got my protest sign:
YOU SUCK
it up
Professional banksters deserve a place with Mr. Madoff. Bernie, warm up your cell chair for your soon to be cell mates !
This was predicted a couple of weeks ago...yawn. The CA AG is Brown. He is in a tight race for governor. This will push him into a decisive lead. Look for nothing to happen.
This is bullish: No one paying mortgage = higher taxable income (no mortgage deduction) = less california red ink.
And the market continues to go higher.
Tyler...
Have you seen KD's post
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?singlepost=2203988
about HR3808 potentially passing due to congressional session being left open?
I just heard that story myself, apparently Obunghole the communist lied directly to the american people and HR 3808 has passed, some giddy banker was just spewing that they really pulled the woll over the sheeples eyes this time! Oh man, is this gonna get ugly. I dont care about some BS pops in stocks like Robo is obsessed with all the time, things are about to get real bad quick.
I am hearing that it does not pass until midnight assuming the Senate session remains open. The US Senate website says session was opened for pro forma session - which reeks of a sneaky move.
Even more comedy: A bill regarding signatures, passes by voice vote, only to be vetoed by not signing, only to become law because Harry Reid forgot to turn out the lights when he left.
Send comments...Call him an asshole, whatever but if nothing else inundate the server.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/webform/comment-legislation?billname=H.R.%2038...
My understanding is that the veto has to be delivered to the House, since that's the chamber the bill came out of. House is adjuourned until November.
That's my take on it too. Guess we will find out soon enough!
I think the way a pocket veto works is the bill just never gets enacted because the POTUS drops it behind the radiator. He's still supposed to sign laws into effect, and if he doesn't, they never go into effect, even if passed by Congress.
If Congresss is in session and passes a bill, it becomes law ten days after they submit it to the President for his signature - assuming Congress is still in session on the tenth day. This assumes he simply has not signed the bill and has not actively vetoed it. If Congress is not in session on the tenth day, and the President has not signed the bill, it dies. The difference lies in whether Congress is in session ten days after they send a bill to the President that he does not sign.
If this is true, I think I will need to come up with a new term that means flabbergasted, gobsmacked or astounded by the audacity of America's corpolitical ruling class!
As I recall from my years in the States, Friday night is a popular time to pass unpopular legislation.
As much as I'm not particularily fond of Obama, I can't imagine the Democrats (ie. Reid and Obama) pulling such a dirty trick, a month before the election.
It'd be pure political suicide.
Not just iPads.
All those newly unemployeds that get to live "rent free" for another 6 months are going nuts buying $150 workout outfits.
Nice composition on that photo.
Fancy workout duds and cool gadgets go hand in hand. Imagine showing up at your yoga class in a t-shirt and shorts with and Android phone. OMG! How horrifying!
I've done it! I'm sorry but there are so many better uses of a few hundred of my dollars than on a pair of yoga pants. And yes an android phone is one of them. I'll stick to my raggedy gym shorts and t-shirts and invest the savings on yoga pants somewhere else.
Ahhhh...the Bow River passing by Banff, Alberta....the chick is great too...
I hate those 2 old liars.
Buffetttttttfake is the faud of the Century.
Reported HR 3808 has been slithered thru as passed law, contrary to the Liar in Chiefs assertion he 'pocket vetoed' it, senate was kept in session and the bankster fraud protection act will pass tonite at midnite.
Is there a reason he couldn't just actually "VETO" the damn thing?
Is this considered a black swan now?
No. If it causes major harm to the economy, then yes. But right now, no, it's not a black swan.
shouldn't she have laid out a towel/mat on that deck? Doing yoga on that old wooden pier will leave her Workouts duds torn up and her backside full of splinters. LOL
I trust that backside is hard enough to hold up to some wood. Did I say that?
HA! Loved it.
Don't forget this little known player in the background - ground zero for all OTC CDS MBS - for when the unwinding starts. The Depository Trust and Clearing Corporation, who's subsidiary the Trade Information Warehouse, through the Warehouse Trust Company, which is under the Federal Reserve Banking System and is therefore backed by the taxpayer, will be the killing zone for these toxic mortgages with bailouts by the public purse!
Don't they own all of the stocks too?
I said it before, I have been in court verses Wells Fargo for two years in California on a case with clearly forged and manipulated loan app and closing docs, but the courts are going the way of: "if you got the money you owe it back." They do not care about MBS, fraud underwriting to Fannie or Freddie and other issues. This press is about pretending to hit the banks before the elections. Thats it. There is so many foreclosures in the pipeline and OREO that the banks WANT a hiatus on foreclosures. Don't worry. After the November election, they will be back in the swing of things. Just you watch. NODs nailed to the front of your house on Christmas Eve. Happy Birthday Jesus.
PS. Did you guys hear about that CPS taking the baby away from that New Hampshire couple for being Tea Party members? Google Stephanie Janvrin and get the word out pronto!
Perhaps we should wait for the facts. I'll be first in line to help if there isn't cause.
UPDATE : 10/07/2010 10.53PM PST — We have confirmed that the affidavit in support of the order to take the child from her parents states ,along with a long list of other assertions against both parents, that “The Division became aware and confirmed that Mr. Irish associated with a militia known as the Oath Keepers.” Yes, there are other, very serious allegations. Out of respect for the privacy of the parents, we will not publish the affidavit. We will leave that to Mr. Irish. But please do remember that allegations do not equal facts — they are merely allegations (and in my experience as a criminal defense lawyer in small town Montana I saw many allegations that proved to be false).