Is There A More Innocent Explanation For The Revival Of HR3808?

Tyler Durden's picture

Over the past day, some have gotten concerned that the reappearance of HR3808 on the floor of the House may be another shadow attempt to override the president's veto which could, if passed, ameliorate the fraudclosure situation (yet which if Diana Olick's report about an imminent settlement is correct, may be moot as is). Courtesy of a highly ranked political advisor, we present an alternative view, stating that HR3808 is not about enforcing banker interests, but more about delineating the separation of powers between the president and congress. Either way, the bill's attempted passage can be watched live here.

A lot of people are worried about HR 3808 being on the floor of the House today?  Why?  Your government is here to help.  Trust us.

Ok, on to the story, as I understand it.

I called around and basically what people tell me is that this is not an attempt to override the veto, it is a pissing match between Congress and the President.  The President engaged in what’s known as a ‘pocket veto’, which Constitutionally speaking doesn’t really exist, but sort of does.  And a pocket veto, in its not-a-wave-not-a-particle state, can’t be overridden by Congress.  The House doesn’t like that. So the House is voting today and basically saying ‘we accept your veto of this bill, but it’s not a pocket veto because those don’t exist’.

Here’s more:

That’s how I understand it, and I could be wrong because this stuff is confusing.  I’ll try to get a statement from someone official.  But just remember, trust us.


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surfsup's picture

So what happened to that wet ink note?  Oh, my dog ate it...   What about the thousands which were hypothecated into investments?  I have lots of dogs... 

barkster's picture

we need to pocket veto these lame duck sessions where the politicians are more unaccountable than they usually are...

Village Idiot's picture

+1.  lame duck gets the dirty work done.

Double down's picture

Things are soooo FUBARed I kind of believe it.   

barkingbill's picture

"trust us" is such a convincing argument. 

Tortfeasor's picture

The only real link between HB 3808 and fraudclosure is this:

Non-existent veto ~ non-existent promissory note

SWRichmond's picture

Then why did a liberal Dem initiate the override?  Seems like dezinformatsia to me, an attempt to get the masses to STFU.  The timing, right along with the announcement of a pending settlement by the state AGs, renders this all about the cover up and fleecing going on unabated.

hbjork1's picture

Dems are politicians who need donors.  Might have been an action that was designed to fail.


azusgm's picture

No, the pocket veto was not used. Congress was officially held in session at the time that the bill hit the president's desk. If Obama had failed to respond with a written veto, the bill would have become law. He vetoed the bill after there was a firestorm on the interenet (including,, and here at to make sure that benign neglect did not allow stealth enactment of that bill.

Please contact your legislators today.


azusgm's picture

Typed "internet" incorrectly. Sorry about that.

hbjork1's picture


The e and r are right next to each other.  Not hard to hit them both at the same time.

brooklyncp's picture

I think the dirty bastards left Congress open full well knowing

3808 would pass.  I suspect Obama knew too.

ZeroPoint's picture

I don't see how this can become law. If Massachusetts doesn't have to recognize Texas' gun laws, and Texas doesn't have to recognize Massachusetts' marriage contracts, how can this actually happen?

But let's say it does happen. Who on earth would dare take a mortgage from a TBTF bank ever again? They are slitting their own throats yet again.

Imminent Crucible's picture

It sounds like desperation to me.  Even if they passed the law, and its intent was an ex-post facto legitimization of robo-signing and foreclosure document fraud, how does it fix anything?  You still have the same mortgage note sold to three different banks, you still have reps-and-warranties-fraud, you still have REMIC trusts with no mortgages in them and MBS sold before the mortgage pools were located and purchased.

Read Michael Hudson's The Monster: How a Gang of Predatory Lenders Screwed America. You won't believe how bad it really is.

rookie's picture

the bill allows for electronic notarizations.  so now they can just create and back-date all of the Assignments of Mortgages to the trusts that they didn't do in the first place.  they can just print them out - no notaries, no robo-signers, no problem.

TruthInSunshine's picture

MERS basically screwed over local unit of government, and individual states, because one facet of MERS allowed those ostensibly conveying title (I say ostensibly for the obvious reason that the whole issue of whether title could be or was legally conveyed via MERS is unresolved) to avoid paying typical recordation, transfer and other fees to such units of government.

You are correct that such matters as land and conveyance of land are governed under state law (absent a few, extraordinary cirumstances, such as Indian Lands, to name just one).

The fear is, as I understand it, that states are so strapped for cash, as are their individual units of government, that the states' AG are basically being sent by the states to negotiate some sort of recognition of MERS conveyances/transfers, after the fact (or ex post facto for those keeping legal score), in exchange for loads of cash now.

SWRichmond's picture

Do you have a link to a clear explanation of how MERS operated to avoid payment of recordation fees?  I'd like to run with this.

azusgm's picture

Here's from the home page of

Welcome to MERS!

MERS is an innovative process that simplifies the way mortgage ownership and servicing rights are originated, sold and tracked. Created by the real estate finance industry, MERS eliminates the need to prepare and record assignments when trading residential and commercial mortgage loans.

Orly's picture

Oh, and let me guess, a Delaware corporation?

TruthInSunshine's picture

They really don't know where MERS' office is, and no, I'm not joking.

It also has no employees - none, nada, zip. It only had/has 'officers' who were authorized to sign documents, and who only recently have begun to pop up at hearings and such from time to time, but MERS had zero employees.

MERS is a big mysterious condundrum wrapped in a paradox and tucked inside of a double entendre.

Jim in MN's picture

I could send you a notrized statement that I am a MERS employee, and even have a Federal law pass that required you to accept it.  But it would still be a complete and total L-I-E.

TruthInSunshine's picture

I will only accept it physically if you had it Robosigned by Ms. Green, and there's a perjured affidavit attached.



glenlloyd's picture

Seems a little odd to me and I don't trust that this is what it's about. I understand the argument and sure, it could mean that but part of me thinks that it's about the legislation itself.

azusgm's picture

It has to be about the legislation itself. This bill is dirty. It passed the House by voice vote. No votes counted. It passed the Senate by unanimous consent. No votes counted. It was going to pass the president's desk and become law without a signature if the awareness had not been raised in the blogosphere and an email, fax, telephone campaign to the White House mounted. Apparently the bill is stinky enough that neither the legislators nor the president wanted to take accountability.

Tortfeasor's picture

If you read the actual bill, you'll find there is nothing nefarious about this at all.  It has no influence on foreclosure law.

azusgm's picture

The states are fully capable of joining together in a harmonization agreement if necessary or beneficial. Notarization is not one of the enumerated powers. But yes, this would be made to play into the foreclosure mess and used to cover up fraud. If all of the states, without question, are required to accept notarized documents from all of the other states, it would be difficult to prosecute the fraud involving robosigners who forged each other's signature or notaries who allowed their signatures to be forged and their stamps used. Read the depositions. There were notarizations done by notaries who were physically located in states other that the ones in which the documents were actually signed.

rookie's picture

it has everything to do with cleaning up the fraudclosure mess.  see above comment.

Imminent Crucible's picture

The most innocent explanation is always the least likely.

themosmitsos's picture

Except that I believe Obama's tryin to have it both ways, both passing the bill AND making it look like he opposed it. Will probably succeed. Being two-faced is the only thing he's good at

williambanzai7's picture

You know what this is? It is one big...

Unaccountable unanimous consent voting, pocket vetos, back door fraudclosure facilitation bills...yep, one big HJ.

Orly's picture

That looks rather painful.


SwingForce's picture

The AG in charge of the other 50 said yesterday they were months away from a report, how can a settlement with the banks be imminent? Plus, how much doc-stamp revenue has MERS cheated the counties out of? How much doc-stamp revenue are the robo-digning title companies cheating the counties out of? 

jmc8888's picture

You mean to say, once again, people are voting because of one reason, and the actual thing they are voting on is completely different?


Looks like another case of 'you think the bill is nothing', in reality, this bill will 'change everythinhg'.   But it's JUST a pissing match between congress and the president.


I call bullshit.


They didn't really think the Federal Reserve Act was going to be voted on either.  But it WAS.


The fact remains, if the banks don't legally own the house, AND THEY DON'T, nothing congress does to overturn that will stand.

Eventually.  Who knows when the lemmings will wake up, and once they do, they turn into the 60 year old tea partier talking about Islam and taxes. But eventually they will not let parties that do not own the title collect money and/or foreclose on somebody not paying.

Looks like the AG's are fucking up again.  They could get it ALL if they just wanted to do 5 hours work a week, but hey, they can keep the streak of fucking the America People, now at 19453564534 straight occurences, and get kickbacks from the criminals just by illegally gifting millions of homes to people who aren't their owners, and kicking out millions of people illegally from their homes.

I think ALOT of AG's are going to be looking for work, next election, if we're still around of course.  When I mean ALOT, I mean every one that fucks their constituents with a 2 foot dildo up their ass without lube until it bleeds, will be voted out.  Unless of course there is a gay ammendment on the docket.  Then any republican dipshit can get elected.

Once again we're going to be screwed because of SOPHISTRY.  We're not voting on THAT, we're voting on THIS other thing.  But the bill said THAT.  Well yes.  But we were really focusing on THIS.  Then how come all the bankers are focusing on THAT.   I don't know.  I'm just concernec about THIS. 

Once again, Americans get screwed, because the IQ of our elected representatives is lower than the number of wins the cowboys have this season.  But that's still twice as much as the average citizen electing said dumbasses.

We're so fucked.  What next, the super x-ray bill being signed.  The super x-ray bill.  Yeah we want to produce some super x-rays.  How? Well we're going to drop these things from planes.  I'm not really concerned with THAT.  It's going to produce all sorts of radiation, like X-rays.  I think we ought to do that.  What about the fact it's being done over Cities?  I'm not concerned with THAT.  I'm just concerned with THIS.  It's just a pissing match between the engineers and the pilots.  That's all.  Forget about the burning mutilated bodies on the ground like Hiroshima.  It's just a pissing match.

Yeah and giving millions of homes to people that don't own them, specifically by their own hand no less, it just a pissing match.






Jim in MN's picture

Congress was shown to be completely in the hands of the bankers with this bill once.  Now here they are again.

They should play separation of powers games with a flag burning bill.  Or one designating June to be National Junebug Month.  Not this torpedo under the Republic's waterline.

downrodeo's picture

"Your government is here to help.  Trust us."

This statement always raises concern.

Fraud-Esq's picture

TD would be correct. SOP issues. 

Problem Is's picture

"Why?  Your government is here to help.  Trust us."

So Who Is This Diana Olick and Why Are We Listening To -- Discussing This Twat?
Ohhhh. It is the Zero Hedge Comic section and we are laughing at another CNBC cartoon character...

Sounds Like a Fucking Real Estate Expert to Me

Olick: "BA in Comparative Literature with a minor in Soviet Studies from Columbia College in New York and a Masters Degree in Journalism from Northwestern’s Medill School of Journalism."

mkkby's picture

Congress has been robosigning bills written by industry forever.  We might as well all get in on the act.  I'll get interested when the sheeple are ready to pocket veto the entire gov.

azusgm's picture

Good point. They vote to pass bills they have never personally read and evaluated.


Then there's the old switcheroo by which unrelated stink bombs are planted in the dark of night. If confronted, the outgoing Speaker of the House had the nerve to say things like, "You need to pass the bill so you can read it and find out what is in it."


Almost sounds like tales from mortgage/foreclosure fraud.