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Things That Make You Go Hmmm.... Such As The CFTC's "Endless" Investigation Of Silver Manipulation

Tyler Durden's picture


From Grant Williams' "Things That Make You Go Hmmm"

...The CFTC proposals stipulate the following: "Spot-month position limit levels set at 25% of deliverable supply for a given commodity, with a conditional spot month limit of five times that amount for entities with positions exclusively in cash-settled contracts What this essentially means is that anybody that has no intention of taking physical delivery of a commodity will NOT be allowed to build a position that is greater then 125% of the total deliverable supply while anybody looking to buy physical metal can only buy 25% of that same supply. They also threw in this little grenade: "Exemptions for bona fide hedging transactions (based on the Dodd-Frank Act’s new requirements for such transactions) and for positions that are established in good faith prior to the effective date of specific limits adopted pursuant to the proposed regulations." In other words, the existing short positions allegedly held by JPMorgan and HSBC amongst others about which the complaints were made, are unaffected by the new rules as they were already established. The WHAT?? Far from being the dog that didn’t bark, the CFTC have become the dog that held the door open for the burglars while they ransacked the house. Elsewhere though, there is another type of barking to be heard as the physical stocks of silver on the COMEX continue to dwindle - from 87,000,000 ounces in 2009 to a little over 32,000,000 ounces a mere 2 years later and sooner or later, if the volatility in silver continues, the answer to the CFTC’s investigation will be discovered not behind closed doors, but in the full glare of the spotlight as the amount of silver available to settle futures expiry gets dangerously close to a shortfall. The  more demand we see for physical silver from the likes of China, the more dangerous it gets to allow huge structural shorts to persist. Perhaps that’s why Commissioner Bart Chilton spoke this week in urgent tones about the need to address the issue of position limits? Silver now seems to have stabilized and, with first day notice for the July contract rapidly approaching, it looks as though the battle will once again be joined as silver continues to build a base between $33 and $35. One thing is for certain, the current trend simply CANNOT continue as the stocks of available silver in the COMEX warehouses continue to plummet regardless of fluctuations in the paper price. Sooner or later either the CFTC dog barks, or the market dog will - and THAT will be quite something to hear.

Full note (pdf)

Hmmm May 22 2011


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Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:07 | 1300777 MikeNYC
MikeNYC's picture

Pirhanas only take little bites at a time, anyway.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:24 | 1300820 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

As long as investors continue to play the paper game, the Crimex and CFTC will act criminal and manipulate.  If you take physical delivery, then all this shit about position limits and margin requirements means nothing.


Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:30 | 1300834 Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture

Pay the extra commission and buy coins and bars direct from several oulets. What's the problem? Why bother with the thieves? it will cost you time and money.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:55 | 1300872 Michael Victory
Michael Victory's picture


agreed, stack it.

Why buy silver bullion?

How about because it won't ever go to zero.


Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:44 | 1301631 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

Why is that website registered to a nonexistent address?   Seems to be registered to Michael V.


I guess that makes your remark SPAM.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:57 | 1300879 mrgneiss
mrgneiss's picture

Alright, what loser junked this post...........WTF is wrong with you???  Rhetorical.......

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 21:55 | 1300940 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

"there is no interest on it." in effect the CME is acting as a "shadow Fed" and by raising margin (interest) rates is in my view "confirming what we already know is a problem in Europe" namely that "interest rates still matter" at a minimum in determining risk profile--but "at a maximum" in both "determining an end" although perhaps "simply providing a return." Sovreign defaults have historically been unheard of (just print your way out of it!) but since Argentina of only a decade ago defaulted suddenly "it's appearing everywhere and all at the same time." Gold and silver is of course money.  But so is God.  And in America as we all know "God is oil."

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 23:06 | 1301046 Questionmark
Questionmark's picture

Sorry for highjacking this top spot but I just saw this video on facebook and wanted to share it with zerohedge. It seems pretty relevant these days and made me lol.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 02:23 | 1301222 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I too regret hijacking this prime real estate, but...  Please don't kick me off, Tyler, for this...


I am considering writing a blog.  This has been going around in my head now for a few days, I have had a lot of time to THINK because my wife has been out of town for over a week. If you are still interested in what I am writing here, please read on...  The below is "cut & pasted" from my one page or so outline of article ideas and other thoughts re my blog.  This IS kind of long, but you will get the general idea of what I have in mind.  PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE let me know of any interest.  If I do not get anyone interested, I will not go forward...  Please send any comments to my name (moniker) at gmail dot com.  Thank you!  And please read on...

My blog will be about a wide variety of subjects of interest to me, but that I hope would be of at least passing interest to some of you.  I intend to write on a fairly wide range of subjects, many of which are listed below.  That list is likely to grow, I hope it does.  I would like to state upfront that I am not really an expert on ANYTHING, really.   One of the purposes of my blog would be to draw into the discussions the opinions of experts.  There are many things I would hope to learn from experts as well as all of you, my friends, virtual friends, family and readers.  YES, I want have a robust Comments Section after each article, because I am NOT an expert on ANYTHING!  I want to learn as well as entertain all of you.  I want Comments on my blog!  Lots and lots of Comments, because you, my dear readers, are a vastly intelligent and knowledgeable group.

My blog will not be in any kind of competition with any other blog, because I can claim only modest expertise on almost any subject I will address.  Below are some topics that may very well be written about soon.  Many of these I know interest SOME of you!  Please be reassured that I do not expect ANYONE to be interested in them all.

Gold, precious metals and “Freegold”

The Really Lousy Economic Situation (“TRLES”)

Wine / beer / liquor

Tai Chi and related

SHTF / TEOTWAWKI (likely to be a crowd pleaser…)

“Personal stories of my life” (funny or nice anecdotes, E & C know many)

Blogging (introductory)

Poetry & Haiku (yes!)


Jokes and humor in general (yes!)

“Guest Posts” (that is, I would like to have YOU to write some of YOUR stuff!)

Ball bearings and similar

Guns & ammo & general military stuff


Evil Banksters (probably another popular one!) / Wall St. Fraud / Evil Empire

South Carolina

Texas and which County is the best!    <--- (could be real hornets’ nest…)


Tourism in Italy!

Tourism in France!

Tourism in Peru!

Tourism in general

Art, music and opera

Astronomy & geology ("Dummies" level, geology includes volcanoes and earthquakes)

Math (yes!)

Fiction (yes!  Some of you know I like to read.)  popular and classic

History (yes!)

Politics in general!

Computer stuff (at the “Dummies” level, for example topics like Facebook, etc.)

Language / Linguistics / Foreign languages

The oil business

The mining business

The banking business (oh wait, I took care of this under banksters above, let me KNOW if you made it this far, LOL)

The Middle East

Europe and Asia in general

Conspiracy theories / Tinfoil Hat stuff (extremely limited, perhaps humorous only)

Nutrition and health

Other topics can be suggested… 


Mon, 05/23/2011 - 05:09 | 1301269 Michael
Michael's picture

I'm repeating my comments from the Greece thread in case you missed it. Check out that thread for the time stamps.

They just mentioned this article on CNBC World in the last few minutes.

I am totally appalled at this.

They have no right to elevate themselves to our level of understanding using us in that manner.



I bought a 2750sf new house for next to nothing paid in cash 10c on the dollar with no mortgage using the knowledge from this site and others on the Internet.

I'm buying hand over fist silver at $35 thanks to CNBC for helping drive the price down for me.

Not a word mentioned from them on the way up to $50, but they sure cheered it on the way down to $35 where I need it to be for a little while longer.

Please don't let them discover the silver bears videos on this site. Please!

CNBC World just mentioned Zero Hedge again in the last couple of minutes. Arrrgh! Can't we keep any secretes of counter deception tactics to ourselves for one freaking minute?

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 05:43 | 1301286 Michael
Michael's picture

Am I the only freaking person on the planet who realizes the reporters on CNBC are employees of the world central banking cartel? Throw me a freaking bone here. You cant be serious thinking they are independent journalists. Really!

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 06:57 | 1301325 acrabbe
acrabbe's picture

no, you are not alone. cnbc is pure entertainment. it can be enraging at times, but i have learned to zen myself in this bizarro world. fvck cnbc.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 05:45 | 1301288 macholatte
macholatte's picture

I have had a lot of time to THINK because my wife has been out of town for over a week.


oops! She's home.

Never mind.


Mon, 05/23/2011 - 02:59 | 1301236 donpaulo
donpaulo's picture

Physical metals are the proper place to store value over time.

I bought some more today on spotmex


Mon, 05/23/2011 - 05:41 | 1301287 Chicken_Little
Chicken_Little's picture

#nope 1004, you're headed for yep-2012.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 17:19 | 1457614 Hremas
Hremas's picture

Very good this post,clear and helpful.Forex Trading online.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 21:02 | 1300881 MikeNYC
MikeNYC's picture

Totally off-topic, but...

Did AL Queda just take a Pakistani naval base?


Sun, 05/22/2011 - 21:09 | 1300884 mrgneiss
mrgneiss's picture

Hey..........only the moron with the green hair is allowed to hijack threads...........get with the program........

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 21:44 | 1300933 john39
john39's picture

just our CIA and al-cia-du independent contractors hard at work trying to start wwIII

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 21:38 | 1300920 SoCalBusted
SoCalBusted's picture

These people can go fuck themselves.  So worried about silver, but what about HFT?

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 21:39 | 1300923 Tail Dogging The Wag
Tail Dogging The Wag's picture

... while the CFTC continues to "investigate" you can diversify your portfolio.

In times of change you need new alternatives and new ideas.

Land in Panama is one of the most undervalued assets in 2011.


In the event of a sale of land from any of the Thorsson Capital properties to any Zero Hedge reader, the vendor (Thorsson Capital) hereby pledges a donation of 1% of the total sale to Zero Hedge, said donation is to be made within 30 working days of settlement.


Mon, 05/23/2011 - 05:48 | 1301290 macholatte
macholatte's picture

go peddle your dirt somewhere else.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 08:00 | 1301381 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture


Position's not only a good's the law. It's just that we're not going to enforce them right now.

Maybe later....yes....later sounds good.

Screw that whole 3 part government system.....we're the law, the kings, and the sheriff.....all in one.

....and we don't have to show you no stinking badges.



Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:04 | 1300778 lunaticfringe
lunaticfringe's picture

The eternal investigation continues simply because the CFTC is nothing other than a bag man for big bank manipulators- the issuers of worthless fiat. At this point, I could give a shit less about any regulating body...they have proven time and time again they are not interested in a level playing field...just tilting for their elite cronies. We get it assholes.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:23 | 1300816 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

we wont stop.. and i told ya we wont stop...

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:46 | 1300855 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

Hey CFTC, Your mother's ass is so big when she sits down she's 3 feet taller.


Silver bitchez

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:26 | 1300825 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I am afraid the Lunatic Fringe has it correct.

Hey!  As the Bearing has just finished basic training in the Tinfoil Hat Brigade, I URGENTLY need advice from any of my Superiors here at ZH!

Should I join the Space Batallion?  Looks fun...

Or the Lunatic Fringe Batallion?  Looks good too.

Or other suggestions?  Inquiring Bearings and THB members want to know!

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 22:15 | 1300973 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

maybe stay autonomous, DC;  don't lose your bearings.

keep your hat on!


Sun, 05/22/2011 - 22:32 | 1301009 goldsaver
goldsaver's picture

DCRB, is there any method that I can contact you? Need info on your neck of the woods in SA.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 01:05 | 1301174 Mariposa de Oro
Mariposa de Oro's picture

My Dearest DoChen, How many times need I remind you NOT to wear the hat out in public?  If you do, you won't be invited to the good parties.  Thus, you must LOOK like a sheeple (take off the damn hat) and SPEAK like a sheeple (stop talking about the damn hat).  If you fail to do the above, it's re-education for you, my little catapillar....


Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:05 | 1300779 Jreb
Jreb's picture

Holy hell - no silver bitchez??? Did everyone take the day off here?? WTF? Maybe the rapture only hit ZH posters...

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:11 | 1300796 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Yeah the zeal for silver is waning. Is this a bottom?

I am looking for signs of.distribution versus consolidation, but i suspect at this point its moves will be based on macro economic trends which are hard to predict.

Everyone should have some gold and silver. Just dont bet the ranch bitchez.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:25 | 1300815 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ $1500, both points.

5% - 20% in gold / silver seems about right to the Bearing, who is at 12% PMs.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:33 | 1300833 Diatribe
Diatribe's picture

I'm guessing you don't care about 88% of your money...

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:41 | 1300842 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I am VERY diversified.  If I could put a small percentage of my assets in another UNIVERSE, I would.



If we get to FOFOA's $55k, then my 12% jumps a LOT.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:41 | 1300853 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Yes, but the hangover is going to be a real bitch!

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:52 | 1300866 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

I believe it will be a kinder, gentler change of status.quo as we slowly lose our standard of living.

But by we I really mean all of you!

( sorry..I am a troll!)

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:59 | 1300878 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Hulk, re the hangover at our Really Big Party, well that's just too damn bad!  If by hangover you mean from our current predicament, I agree, the hangover will be REALLY BAD.

top, what a terrible troll you are!  Yeah, all of you who do not have the best diversification (and wealth preservation mechanism) in town: physical gold!

Oro putaz!

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 22:43 | 1301020 Kevin... Who su...
Kevin... Who suffers from Cassandras curse's picture

O.K.  I tried to google "Oro putaz" and came back with"bullshit"


What dose it mean?

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 22:51 | 1301030 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture



Sun, 05/22/2011 - 22:57 | 1301040 johny2
johny2's picture

Auro, or, oro, ouro are words used to describe gold. 

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 21:27 | 1300906 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Yup.  Even my five percent would go above half, if such a move was not accompanied by ANY rise in silver.  Which is unlikely to say the least.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 09:29 | 1301591 au_bayitch
au_bayitch's picture

I had something to reply but after looking staring at your avatar I've forgot.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 04:40 | 1301260 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Don't know about others, but my impression is that most people who are interested in physical silver, are currently waiting... either because they did already buy at the current levels, or because they think it will go lower. Not much to talk about, when one is waiting and the price doesn't do much besides of moving up and down between 33-36$.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:53 | 1300867 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture

Too busy stacking up my supply into a little play fort.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 21:30 | 1300910 Pullmyfinger
Pullmyfinger's picture

I'm stacking mine into a Large play fort.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 21:46 | 1300932 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

I'm waiting for someone to add "I'm stacking mine into Fort Knox."

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:10 | 1300783 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

The COMEX will eventually have some competition. Free competition solves virtually all human maladies.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 23:24 | 1301068 pupton
pupton's picture

I just read that the shanghai exchange will start trading silver by the end of the year. COMEX will have some competition if that happens, right.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 03:57 | 1301249 Nate H
Nate H's picture

" Free competition solves virtually all human maladies."


That was true on an empty planet.  Now we're gliding on a different part of the polynomial.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:15 | 1300784 eigenvalue
eigenvalue's picture

Is the correction over? Or is it just a trap for the longs?  

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:14 | 1300801 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

If someone actually knew the answer they would be rich soon.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:34 | 1300836 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

I buy on down days.. and I will continue to buy on down days.. until we hit $100.. thats my number.. I have said it over and over and over..


anyone that wants to put my pile of metal against their pile of paper.. today, 1,3,5... is welcome to try.. but I woul encourage that person to atleast hedge 50% in PM's.


Given what your needs are to protect and your internal numbers are going forward.. 1 Y 100% 3 Y 300% was the blended average that we looked for prior to the madness.. Oops, New Normal.. you dont always get to exactly those numbers but it is a bench mark.. but I am Bullish on NOTHING! real esate? have that dont need any more.. unless its a steal... I dont even look at Government Properties any more.. State owned? HeLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL! NO! Hair Cut my ballz!


I am in hard assets.. and cash.. and I can be in how many different cash positions at the click of a button.. see the FX boys for help if you need it.


I was a buyer.. until end of last year.. of dirt and things.. no more!

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 21:31 | 1300913 Pullmyfinger
Pullmyfinger's picture

The drive-by shooting is over. You can come out now.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:08 | 1300786 silberblick
Sun, 05/22/2011 - 23:08 | 1301047 gookempucky
gookempucky's picture

Doing nothing is just the tip of the iceburg as the spokes woman for the CFTC team had her game on.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:18 | 1300805 DoctorGold
DoctorGold's picture

Spot price will mean little in the future. Premiums will be outrageous.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:32 | 1300837 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

they already are! the future is today!

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:52 | 1300865 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

Just like gasoline and diesel fuel. They come in and manipulate the hell out of crude oil but high prices at the pumps remain. Because the prices were manipulated crude is inching it's way back up at a pace that keeps pump prices high. As for PM's; they just pulled cocked a spring that being compressed day by day until the straps give way launching prices higher than they would have been.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:18 | 1300809 Gordon Freeman
Gordon Freeman's picture

I like to cut to the chase:  "Henceforth, no physical delivery will be permitted, and any long contract will be declared void upon exceeding the purchase price"

How's that?

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:42 | 1300849 MikeNYC
MikeNYC's picture

That would be the buy signal of a lifetime. We should be so lucky.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 21:33 | 1300914 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

No physical delivery will be permitted

because there is no physical Silver to deliver.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 22:47 | 1301026 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

The problem with the futures market is time. They need a death penalty.

I'm sure if you told comex and JPM that they would be dead in 6 months and they needed to get their affiars in order you wouldn't have a futures market that needed 10 years to take care of next month.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:26 | 1300817 AUD
AUD's picture

huge structural shorts to persist

Except these 'huge' shorts are not in the spot, or deliverable month, so exactly how does this "get dangerously close to a shortfall"?


Sun, 05/22/2011 - 21:13 | 1300895 Amish Hacker
Amish Hacker's picture

 Even those "legacy" shorts have their corresponding longs, and come due sooner or later. I think Dan Norcini probably has it right, that all it would take to destroy the shorts is for a (relatively small) number of longs to stand for physical delivery.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 21:50 | 1300937 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 You know how to trade my friend. AUD 1.02456. Hint?

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 22:54 | 1301035 AUD
AUD's picture

If you're asking; Is 1.02456 a possibility? I'd say yes.

I could be wrong though, I'm still convinced my penny stock gold miners will 'pay' despite a couple of them now trading below their '08 lows, as if that were possible!

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:29 | 1300824 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

They're conspiring to defend what I believe are massive derivative shorts established in March 1980 at the peak silver price, right as the Fed devised a plan to take down silver. They allowed certain banks to front run the order to go "liquidation only" using the Treasury's silver holdings as collateral surreptitiously, with the understanding that the shorts would never need be repaid. They assumed that their trouble with silver would be over for all time. :-) Now that would certainly explain why the brakes were slammed on right below $50 last month. Coincidence? :-)

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:42 | 1300848 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

i think "whenever there is the problem with the money there is a problem with the silver, too" don't you?  now let's talk energy markets since "you can't short oil" nor apparently and amazingly "natural gas either"  i do agree "check's in the mail" is always a loser.  and "let us not forget the updated version" since "we have e-mail now."

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 23:38 | 1301083 Rick64
Rick64's picture

 What the hell happened to whistleblower Andrew Maguire?

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 00:37 | 1301159 AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

Don't know how he's doing....

....but I think he jumped back into the precious metals fray so to speak.

I hope he carves out some sort of existence for himself and his 'fam'

Stuck his neck out when he grew a conscience....and got properly 'stitched' up for it I'm sure.

Can't imagine you'd just waltz back into your trading desk and work life after that little fiasco

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 00:54 | 1301170 Rick64
Rick64's picture

 Thanks for the update.  Sounds like a different venue, but the same market.  Quite a unique guarantee (If posted trades for that month result in a loss then membership fees for that month will be refunded.)

 That hit and run accident must have shaken his resolve to continue, understandable when your family is at risk.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 01:23 | 1301190 stopthenewworldorder
stopthenewworldorder's picture

andrew is still fully involved, more so than ever, he is just being made to jump through regulatory hoops like a showdog...will get their eventually and it is more than the cftc now investigating

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:28 | 1300826 johny2
johny2's picture

Silver is going up, QE3 postponed or not. Sell if you want, but do not hold your breath waiting to buy it back without taking a loss. 

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:41 | 1300852 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

go ahead and "fight the Fed" as well.  i have no doubt QE is ending--but i do agree "it is a simple article of faith of mine at this point" and nothing more.  Where's Sudden Debt when you need him?

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:53 | 1300874 johny2
johny2's picture

Fed is digging the hole for itself, no need for anyone to fight them. I read in recent ZH article that silver longs in market are at their lowest level sincle 2009, so if I was gambling in the paper silver, I would rather buy than sell. Still, I prefer just to buy physical according to my means, and let the things happen as they will.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 21:03 | 1300883 johny2
johny2's picture

and I did not junk your comment.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:28 | 1300828 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

it's political. prez0 + ms erica holder are out keeping the world safe from oil traders.  the CFTC? 

these companies also run out of the City of London.  the crimex is only a part of this business.  if the LBMA has a problem w/ certain limits, then i'll bet there is a problem with certain limits.

also, the US is certainly not the only country which trades in the PMs as well as currencies. 

bart chilton seems to be the good cop.  there are two cops, right?  hmmm...

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 21:32 | 1300890 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Hello Slewie. Lots of eur news coming up on the econ. calendar OOPs I upset some one. I apolgize.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:28 | 1300829 Dr. Gonzo
Dr. Gonzo's picture

Why don't they just tell us how many of their paper fiats an oz silver is worth and not even bother with their fake price discovery market? Oh. A few people still don't know the markets are broken and manipulated. Ok. After eveyone figures it out just confiscate the shit. Close down the COMEX and try to get everyone to play lotto instead.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 01:54 | 1301212 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Some must see charts on silver:

Silver Bubble?

The action in silver has most of the world saying that silver was in a bubble and now that bubble has popped. Those who say this don’t know what a bubble is and have been blinded by the inflated dollar nominal prices.

If you look at the silver price in US dollar terms it does look like quite a parabolic, bubble-like rise. However, when you just discount the silver price by the US Government’s own CPI Index — which they say is a proxy for inflation — the silver price looks like it has not done much at all. And when you take‘s CPI — which just calculates the Government’s CPI the way they used to calculate it in the 1980s before they learned how to hedonistically remove the inflation — silver has been in a long bear market since 1979.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:29 | 1300830 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

Wht did they even try to pretend to 'investigate'?  Just makes 'em look inept(er)

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:29 | 1300831 Alcoholic Nativ...
Alcoholic Native American's picture

How come us plebes have to play in this ridiculous rat race.  The economy is obviously rigged.   All major financial institutions just got bailed out, are given "liquidity" at 0% interest.  What do we get?  A huge austerity dick in our ass? I didn't spend all the governments money.   Should I be happy if the stock market goes up?  I'm not a shareholder, I'm not part of the global investor class.  I don't get a dividend check every time some company figures out a way to better systematically rape populations and governments for quarterly profits.  

This system is wack.  Who is really defending this shit anymore?



Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:50 | 1300862 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

CNBC says the austerity dick is bullish for stocks.  Or they will anyway.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:29 | 1300832 There ya go again.
There ya go again.'s picture

At some point the CFTC will become irrelevant. They are already behind the curve.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 21:09 | 1300885 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

Are you joking the CFTC is the fall guy, left holding the baby , what ever you want to call it , think about it Morgan ,HSBC do not want to be the ones seen as rigging the market , so when it all caves in they will blame the CFTC and they are the ones that COULD face prison , whilst Morgan HSBC walk away.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 21:43 | 1300934 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

every con has a 'mark'

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:35 | 1300838 silvertrain
silvertrain's picture

Thats what I just said on here a couple of days ago..

I knew it was a farce to start with, why the hell would you announce that you are doing an investigation to the fucking world..You do the damn investigation then charge the mother fuckers..Wells notices and warrant/indictments are how it should be disclosed that its going down..Thats like holding a press conference to say "were investigating pakistan possibly hiding bin laden" just go get the bastard already...
That announcement was a delay tactic only..Next statements will be "we cant comment about on going investigations" They may however charge some nobody for banging the close in lumber futures...

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:46 | 1300861 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

Too big to arrest.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:35 | 1300841 I_am_always_right
I_am_always_right's picture

Four letter word...


ah, no sorry I meant


Ok, that has five letters. I'm not all that clever.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:48 | 1300860 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

That purchase limit absurd.  People will just bypass the COMEX completely like Sprott does.  This is just the CME trying to pretend they can only be in the paper silver business without being a source of supply.  All that means is they are going out of business.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:47 | 1300863 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Hmmmm. CFTC hosed forex accounts in January. Thank Barnie Fudge Packer for that one.


I won't retract that statement! ED:

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 15:15 | 1302693 akak
akak's picture

I highly suspect that Bawney Fwank is more the fudge packee than the fudge packer.

Either way, just thinking about that fat clown bastard is enough to make me ill.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:56 | 1300868 Downtoolong
Downtoolong's picture

Exemptions for bona fide hedging transactions…

These position limit exemptions in the futures market are the fly in the ointment, which primarily applies to the large investment bankers like JPM and HSBC, who aren’t hedging physical silver, but rather their huge paper OTC derivatives positions which are indexed to the futures market. In addition, they use the futures market to manipulate the price and value of those OTC derivatives positions. In spite of the fact that these large market players can argue they hold minimal net positions in silver paper, and therefore (paradoxically) shouldn’t be restricted by position limits, they do hold large naked positions in silver futures which exposes them and every other player in silver futures to extreme risk of squeezes and huge price volatility associated with their management of those positions. The obvious fact is that the futures market is a closed zero sum game in itself, regardless of any OTC derivative or physical positions that futures market players hold beyond its borders. As such, large excessive futures positions held by a few players are detrimental to the futures market directly, and indirectly to the OTC and physical markets as well by the common practice of price indexing.  It’s a dangerous web which can only be made truly safe and fair for all market participants by holding everyone in the regulated futures market to the same position limits. In other words, position limits for the masses and exemptions for a few are just another example of regulations designed to keep the little guys from beating the big guys at their own rigged game.  

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:59 | 1300877 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Do you want to [post 15m ] to accredit  your ability to trade F/X? CFTC is a bunch of worthless children that can't balance a checkbook!

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 22:18 | 1300979 silvertrain
silvertrain's picture

nice post brother..the otc derivatives black box is a monster that will come apart at some point and prove brooksly born right over and over again..

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 22:30 | 1301005 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Thank You. OTC is a-freaking  Joke.  Tyler's crew posted it last week.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 21:08 | 1300887 Everyman
Everyman's picture

Wrong thread.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 21:15 | 1300893 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 I c your point.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 21:15 | 1300896 DrFever
DrFever's picture

Some moron wrote a piece published on 321gold about Silver Manipulation and was crying about it.

I came across a rebuttal on a blog that I follow regularly, The Fundamental View... the rebuttal is here.

People, and I'm referring to the former anonymous writer, still have no fucking clue!!!  Read the links provided in the Fundamental View's rebuttal. I would say the first writer just got bitch slapped.


Sun, 05/22/2011 - 21:32 | 1300916 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

I did not junk you. never will. I double post when the browser locks as well. I'll read your links. Yen Cross.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 00:35 | 1301152 DrFever
DrFever's picture

Double posts.... always by accident. Sorry.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 21:15 | 1300898 DrFever
DrFever's picture

Some moron wrote a piece published on 321gold about Silver Manipulation and was crying about it.

I came across a rebuttal on a blog that I follow regularly, The Fundamental View... the rebuttal is here.

People, and I'm referring to the former anonymous writer, still have no fucking clue!!!  Read the links provided in the Fundamental View's rebuttal. I would say the first writer just got bitch slapped.


Mon, 05/23/2011 - 15:14 | 1302698 akak
akak's picture

If the "anonymous" author of that shallow anti-silver hit piece was not the angry and bitter Bob Moriarity, the "Jon Nadler of Silver" himself, I will eat my hat.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 23:33 | 1304113 strannick
strannick's picture

You're felt lined pirate hat? That IS serious...

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 00:29 | 1304181 akak
akak's picture

Aye, matey, that it be, arrrhhh!

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 21:19 | 1300899 sunnydays
sunnydays's picture

I sure hope it is sooner than later that the crooks are busted including all the CFTC crooks.  They are part of it all and obviously have always been doing the bidding of the banks.  But who in the govt. doesn't do the bidding of the banks, they are the ones who control all the govt. officials.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 21:25 | 1300908 theinebriatedsot
theinebriatedsot's picture

the only way these bastards will be busted is when their system blows up....with hyperinflation. Then, they'll take down most of the idiot sheeple with them. The idiots will cry "please fix it!" and the bastards will institute their NWO....and the idiots will all cheer. Reminds of the line in Star Wars #3: "This is how freedom cheers".....

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 22:01 | 1300939 tickhound
tickhound's picture

"So this is how liberty dies - to thunderous applause" - Star Wars

"these totalitarian elements will not be forced on people, the people will demand them"

"Finding the bad guys" - 60 minutes - the title is over the top, but Andy sells around the 2:10 mark


Sun, 05/22/2011 - 21:33 | 1300918 silverstud
silverstud's picture


There is actually a far bigger issue here.

What happens if JP Morgan Chase defaults on its silver shorts? Take the link below and see how the contagion could sink banks all over the world.


Kind regards

Ozzie Scott

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 21:40 | 1300926 ZombieHuntclub
ZombieHuntclub's picture

The paragraphs, I has them.


Holy hell man break this sh*t up a little.


and to the point: so many investigations, so little results.

List of things that I am not: (1) shocked

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 22:05 | 1300951 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Hello my darling. Did you notice the (usdjpy ) spike? Did you notice the eur/jpy 115.3 move?)` move over 1.325 eur/usd (eur/jpy) Sorly ( no pun intended) is mad @ me right now. I asked for that eur/gbp trade idea.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 04:09 | 1301253 Arkadaba
Arkadaba's picture

+ funny. Actually no forex trading on my end. Too fast. 

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 22:27 | 1301000 ViewfromUnderth...
ViewfromUndertheBridge's picture

While SLV has silver and JPM has SLV they will meet Comex obligations...ETFs are part of the scam for these big players in the "market", default will happen but it will take a while....starting to happen in GLD and gold.

QE3...? "The U.S. Treasury Department has opted to hold off on selling more shares in General Motors Co. (GM) until after July as it waits for the stock to climb" per Bloomberg May 12...what do they know that we don't?

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 22:36 | 1301013 tickhound
tickhound's picture

"QE3...? ...what do they know that we don't?"

The date

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 22:55 | 1301039 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 What can't go up must go down. I'll target 31.58.(XAG( The trendline crossover. Run long stops. P.S FX DAILY is a BUNCH OF CHILDREN. Trade with your GUTS,

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 22:28 | 1301002 CandyKeynes
CandyKeynes's picture

Longtime lurker, first post. Does anybody on here use James Turk's GoldMoney? How reputable is it? Yes, I know all about having plenty of physical. I have some assets that need to stay "attached" to the financial system for long periods, and I'd prefer not to use banks or keep them in dollars, if possible. The GoldMoney setup seems like exactly what I"m looking for.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 07:12 | 1301331 chubbar
chubbar's picture

Candy, I've used that service before, still have an account with them although no funds in it. They are very reputable,IMO. They used to be a little slow to execute sales and to answer emails but that had changed a year or so ago and the last transaction went very smoothly. Hope that helps.



Sun, 05/22/2011 - 22:33 | 1301012 Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

What can I say....but,FUCK YOU CFTC...

Ya bunch of scum sucking Rthschilds shills....

Make me puke.

Ps....Fuck you to Little Timmy G.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 22:44 | 1301024 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

If you weren't using leverage and weren't planning on selling anytime soon, why are you so upset.  The only thing you can do about the corruption is capitalize on it.  Tip your hat for the raid and go to the coinstore.


I hope they can keep kicking the can down the road another year or two.  By then I'll have more Ag than I can carry in 2 duffle bags.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 04:51 | 1301265 MrFriskles
MrFriskles's picture

2400oz in a duffle for one hand while holding a pistol in the other seems like a good start. lol....

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 22:45 | 1301022 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Just buy physical gold/silver. Crimex will have a seizure soon.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 22:49 | 1301029 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Pun intended, bitchez.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 16:01 | 1302849 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

It would be nice if the crimex gatekeepers would go to jail2

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 22:46 | 1301023 HastyP
HastyP's picture

I am stacking like a son of a bitch.  Got two maples on ebay on a buy now for 55 dollars.  Guy had just posted it and I grabbed it. Good luck for me for once.  Time for cheap silver is coming to an end soon so stack up chaps.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 22:56 | 1301033 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

This can't be serious.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 23:14 | 1301052 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

He's stacking like a son of a bitch.... 2 coins?


And no way maples went for that price.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 23:26 | 1301069 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

People never make mistakes? I've seen people post crazy low buy it now prices by mistake.  I remember seeing a 1oz Gold Eagle put up on ebay with a Silver Eagle buy it now price 20% above spot. He lost out big time because someone jumped on it before he figured out what he did. I'm also betting he reneged on that auction.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 06:14 | 1301301 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

2 is the minimum number for stacking, therefore it is not correct to use the term "stacking like a son of a bitch" IMHO.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 07:33 | 1301351 achmachat
achmachat's picture

if he had been buying constantly for the past months, every day, it still counts as stacking like a son of a bitch if on one day it's been just two maples...

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 22:54 | 1301036 mynhair
mynhair's picture

HUF!  Ag, here I come!

Ah crap, just 1 contract.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 22:57 | 1301037 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

The true test for silver will be tomorrow.

ES down 6 points now, dollar is running hard.

"Revulsion" from risk now on tonight.  Let's see if silver is dumped with everything else, or if it holds the line.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 23:00 | 1301041 mynhair
mynhair's picture

All a head fake.  News was only bullish all weekend.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 23:19 | 1301066 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

Blythe has a Sunday night shift. Silver started going up but then took a dive on very low volume. Remember when they waited until 9:30 Monday mornings to do that? Now they must go in when no one is around to manipulate the market. This latest "trick" is now known so people simply go to the terminals and watch for the (manipulated) dip and buy the hell out of it. More physical Silver left the market to strong hands again tonight and Silver has recovered gaining 3 cents as I write this. It must suck to go into work @ 6:00 PM Sunday night and watch your effort to drive Silver prices below $35 a ounce fail miserably.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 10:11 | 1301701 ZapBranigan
ZapBranigan's picture

100% Agreed.  We use to be able to set our watches to the 0930-1000 manipulation plunge, but they've gone international now, doing their dirty deeds in the shadows. 

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 23:31 | 1301071 f16hoser
f16hoser's picture

Cash-out all your retirement funds and buy PM's (stack-it)! They're gonna confiscate it anyway.......

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 02:00 | 1301215 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Ya but why make it troublesome for them.

Let them hit the easy button at the bank of Staples.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 23:31 | 1301075 steveo
steveo's picture

Public service announcement:  I think these are the best useable 
radiation resources available.   Easy to read, in sound bite type 
format.   I made these.   Nowhere in the world do these even come close
 to existing.   Please print them if you see value and pass on the 
links.    I have them permanently linked at
but right this minute, first time in 3 years, blogger is inaccessible.   Here are the direct link on "Box"

Radiation for Dummies

Shelter in Place Doc

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 23:44 | 1301090 Rick64
Rick64's picture

Dodd-Frank Act is just more bullshit passed off as regulation. Its the usual distraction.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 00:42 | 1301161 ThorsteinVeblen
ThorsteinVeblen's picture

Americans either don't care or don't have any money. Why aren't the friends of silver buying scrap silver at more than a 20% discount to spot prices? I've recently seen Sterling sell for less than $.58 per gram (a couple of refineries pay the most--about 80% of spot). I've searched the world over and thought I'd found true love but... instead I found a spread in the scrap silver market wider than I could have imagined. The spread is talking and the spread says that speculation is speculation.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 02:36 | 1301203 tickhound
tickhound's picture

"Why aren't the friends of silver buying scrap silver at more than a 20% discount to spot prices?"

Because they seldom, if ever, have... You new at this? - from '09

"...refiners in the USA generally pay half the spot price of silver for the pure silver weight in sterling silver flatware for scrap" '09 - '10

"...we typically pay 75% of 925 sterling silver value" - '10

Now, one willing to pay 80% is bound to make a seller's day... But most won't do business with the public anyway. 

As far as $.58 a gram... There are "Cash for Unwanted Gold" stories that would put that to shame.

Nothing has changed... 'cept the year. 

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 16:34 | 1302961 ThorsteinVeblen
ThorsteinVeblen's picture

New to selling physical silver and gold, yes. New to short postions using ETF's, no. The demand for physical non-trading stocks of silver is weak. Why doesn't that market's spread tighten? Midwest Refineries does offer one of the highest prices and they do advertise 90%. The question is one of a macro concern; are the 'smart people' buying and hoarding scrap? I don't think so. Even though I'm a seller and wouldn't be long, it doesn't seem that real demand is there and therefore, I believe the current spot price represents speculation instead of concern or, the scrap price represents a lack of purchasing power by Americans. 

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 00:53 | 1301167 The Heart
The Heart's picture

Complete channel change.

Please confirm. Is number one reactor on fire?

JNN ?????? ????? (Live):

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 01:51 | 1301211 cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

Also O/T (sort of, not completely): show ya what a rube I am - could somebody please tell me what FOFOA means? can't find it

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 02:28 | 1301216 tickhound
tickhound's picture

Extension of FOA or Friend of Another, the anonymous gold $55k dude ;)

so, Friend(s) of Friend of Another

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 02:33 | 1301225 steveo
steveo's picture

Boatload O Charts, even some trade ideas
Check it out, easy to digest

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 02:36 | 1301228 adonisdemilo
adonisdemilo's picture

Trying to understand CFTC double speak, 'cos it always is.

Is there a chance, albeit remote, that JPM & HSBC who already have more than 125% will not be able to open any more shorts ?

The statement says, previously held positions "in good faith" ( that's a fucking joke--good faith my ass ) are not included. My take on that is NO NEW POSITIONS UNTIL THE 125% LIMIT IS REACHED ON THE DOWNSIDE.

I'm sure they will argue for total net positions, but a position in %age terms is still a %age whichever side it is on.

But there again they probably won't argue at all, they just don't give a fuck.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 03:02 | 1301239 silver140
silver140's picture

Things that make me go Hmmmmm,,,,, is the current separation between the spot price of gold and silver.  This started on Friday.  It's continuing today. No doubt, the banksters and countries now know they must go to gold, but the common folk are going to be deprived of our silver value.  That's the plan, I think.  If you look at the charts, Gold is going up in sharp rises, and silver, the opposite.  Anybody?

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